Phantasm Mesmers
What ticks me off is how they can obtain a 40% cd reduction with pistol trait and 5 points in last tree to reduce clone cool down. This makes it where by time u deal enough DPS to kill one phantasm the Mesmer is alrdy summoning another… It’s out right dumb.. I’ve suggested this before and have gotten so much hate from mesmers… Look at ranger spirits when they are summoned the cool down does not start until they are dead . Well I would say a duelist is better then any ranger spirit does way more damage and guess what of it dies ok ill make another cuz the cool down already ha started. Same with turrets. Phantasm cool down should not start until the phantasm is dead so they could only have 1 serker 1 duelist and possibly a defender . This is the best way to fix the problem
Phant like BM ranger is no skill easy mode 1v1, but useless in a team fight.
For a competitive 5v5 game they are pretty balanced, and to some dagree not even viable.
only niche teams and solo queuers run them, it can infact harm a team for running more than one and even if you have one there are things that are arguably more viable.
The game needs builds like this so it can counter plays and stalemates, the build itself is pretty much a garantied push off point.
Yes it takes the skill factor out of the game to have “I win unless I’m completely inept” builds but my best suggestion is to just avoid it or take it with your team.
I have no problems with the build existing in a 5v5 but anyone who goes around dueling with it thinking they are good I feel is a little misguided of context.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
AI control pets all in general need some serious looking into. I agree with the OP. When the AI does all the work while u continuously dodge to create more AI… is a huge problem.
In general Phant Mes and any Mes for that fact that rely heavily on AI to do 80% of there damage needs to be a thing of the past. No other MMO I’ve played over the course of a decade allows this. If you want too make this game have a legitimately lasting PvP impression… this issues needs to be fixed.(and of course many other balancing issues, but this is a start in a right direction)
Just too reiterate what the OP said, 5-9k Dmg from a AI… is absurd Anet.
Guardian <3
Dragon
Platinnum – Zerker Guardian
Dragon
Platinnum – Zerker Guardian
Phant like BM ranger is no skill easy mode 1v1, but useless in a team fight.
For a competitive 5v5 game they are pretty balanced, and to some dagree not even viable.
only niche teams and solo queuers run them, it can infact harm a team for running more than one and even if you have one there are things that are arguably more viable.
The game needs builds like this so it can counter plays and stalemates, the build itself is pretty much a garantied push off point.
Yes it takes the skill factor out of the game to have “I win unless I’m completely inept” builds but my best suggestion is to just avoid it or take it with your team.
I have no problems with the build existing in a 5v5 but anyone who goes around dueling with it thinking they are good I feel is a little misguided of context.
Pretty much exactly this.
Jumzi (Ranger), Tarnished Coast
AI control pets all in general need some serious looking into. I agree with the OP. When the AI does all the work while u continuously dodge to create more AI… is a huge problem.
In general Phant Mes and any Mes for that fact that rely heavily on AI to do 80% of there damage needs to be a thing of the past. No other MMO I’ve played over the course of a decade allows this. If you want too make this game have a legitimately lasting PvP impression… this issues needs to be fixed.(and of course many other balancing issues, but this is a start in a right direction)
Just too reiterate what the OP said, 5-9k Dmg from a AI… is absurd Anet.
Also pretty much this. Two spot-on points that need not be ignored.
Jumzi (Ranger), Tarnished Coast
I would not say useless dps, additional targets. regen. and I believe they can choose to take portal as well.
They need some adjusting for sure either increased cds or reduced dmg and mobility.
Like phantasmal zerker should not run after you he should be fixed till his next ww so then at least you have to choose when to bring him out.
The duelist does the highest damage and has the highest bleed % chance of all the clones .×8 with a low recharge this is something that also needs looked at since I believe avg dmg is much higher than expected.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
The number of top teams with Phantasm Mesmers = Zero.
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The number of good players who have a problem going up against Phantasm Mesmer = Zero.
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All I hear from some of you in this thread is… “I don’t like this style of gameplay, it shouldn’t be in the game.”
Newsflash… a lot of people enjoy it. The build is far from overpowered, and borderline useless in competitive gameplay.
Leave it be.
The number of top teams with Phantasm Mesmers = Zero.
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The number of good players who have a problem going up against Phantasm Mesmer = Zero.
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All I hear from some of you in this thread is… “I don’t like this style of gameplay, it shouldn’t be in the game.”Newsflash… a lot of people enjoy it. The build is far from overpowered, and borderline useless in competitive gameplay.
Leave it be.
Who all here is a Phantasm Mesmer, raise your hand.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
The number of top teams with Phantasm Mesmers = Zero.
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The number of good players who have a problem going up against Phantasm Mesmer = Zero.
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All I hear from some of you in this thread is… “I don’t like this style of gameplay, it shouldn’t be in the game.”Newsflash… a lot of people enjoy it. The build is far from overpowered, and borderline useless in competitive gameplay.
Leave it be.
Who all here is a Phantasm Mesmer, raise your hand.
As a player that is generally against Mesmer nerfs I think that phantasm Mesmer is over the top 1v1. Having said that… Anet doesn’t balance around 1v1 so it is lower on the priority list if there at all. The thing that really makes phantasm mesmers over the top is Empowered Illusions Domination trait III. This trait is a left over from when clones still did damage of like 200 or something. Now that they don’t the trait is basically a dinosaur and shouldn’t even exist… Phantasm mesmers combine this with phantasmal strength giving phantasms a total of 30% extra damage… If anet removes empowered illusions or reworks the trait then phantasm mesmers will no longer be an easy 1v1 insta win build.
Who all here is a Phantasm Mesmer, raise your hand.[/quote]
You must be joking. :\
I hear a lot of people saying that they are “over the top 1v1”… I can think of a few specs that are more than capable of smashing them 1v1.
BM Ranger
S/D Thief
S/P Thief
Minion Necro
Bunker Engi
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Now considering that there are 5 specs which can smash them 1v1 on top of the fact that they are useless in team fights… you should know by now why Mesmers who are serious about sPvP choose to be shatter Mesmers.
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I’ll say this as well, I think that Engineers, Guardians, Elementalists and Thieves have better 1v1 specs than the joke that is Phantasm Mesmers.
I think the problem most people have with phantasm mesmers, BM Rangers and to a lesser extent S/D thieves is it doesn’t really take very much player skill to operate these builds. On the other hand it takes a fairly competent player to go up against them.
The “But it’s not viable” argument doesn’t really fly with me. If it’s not viable then why do you even care if it’s nerfed? I also want builds like this nerfed as I don’t like getting stuck with a team of 1v1 builds in solo queue.
Hurr Durr Blades – PvP Warrior
Jangeol – WvW Warrior
Jangeol – WvW Warrior
I think the problem most people have with phantasm mesmers, BM Rangers and to a lesser extent S/D thieves is it doesn’t really take very much player skill to operate these builds. On the other hand it takes a fairly competent player to go up against them.
The “But it’s not viable” argument doesn’t really fly with me. If it’s not viable then why do you even care if it’s nerfed? I also want builds like this nerfed as I don’t like getting stuck with a team of 1v1 builds in solo queue.
If you don’t like getting stuck with teams of 1v1 builds in a solo queue maybe you shouldn’t solo queue.
What good is playing a team build like an epidemic necro if nobody is peeling off you and you are getting farmed by mesmers and thieves?
If you want to change the emphasis on dominant 1v1 builds then the format needs to change where most battles aren’t 1vx
(edited by Zenith.7301)
The only Phant Mesmer that bothers me at ALL, in all reality is Staff semi bunker Mesmers who run Signet of Illusions+Decoy+Phantasmal Defender. THAT is almost impossible to beat a good one 1v1. Especially if its Staff/ Sword+Sword with the trait that lowers Sword cooldowns. They either have mass boons, regen/protection, are invulnerable or taking 50% less damage via a phantasm, all while a Phantasmal Swordsman/Warlock is just throwing stuff at your face and they run in circles. It’s frustrating as hell. Regular Phant mesmers really don’t bother me one bit.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Who all here is a Phantasm Mesmer, raise your hand.
You must be joking. :\
I hear a lot of people saying that they are “over the top 1v1”… I can think of a few specs that are more than capable of smashing them 1v1.
BM Ranger
S/D Thief
S/P Thief
Minion Necro
Bunker Engi
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Now considering that there are 5 specs which can smash them 1v1 on top of the fact that they are useless in team fights… you should know by now why Mesmers who are serious about sPvP choose to be shatter Mesmers.
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I’ll say this as well, I think that Engineers, Guardians, Elementalists and Thieves have better 1v1 specs than the joke that is Phantasm Mesmers.
Wrong. If you watched the tournaments this afternoon you will see that Apollo beat Ovi in nearly every 1v1 and Ovi is a pretty good BM ranger. A S/D thief is also a poor match because the iDuelists auto-target and channel their unload meaning even if the thief is spamming evade/dodge, they are still going to eat the unloads (it would be nice if they all fired at the same time, but they don’t, meaning no matter what, your going to eat one, and a S/D thief is glass meaning they eat the full 5k damage). S/P thief is just a joke, they got nerfed into non-existence). Minion necro.. eh, maybe but unless they have full DS going into the fight to soak the damage they still can’t handle the sustain damage). Engi I will agree with you as they have enough AOE to spam the point and hope they kill the mesmer before the phantasms kill them.
If you read what I said before, they never used to be brought into tournaments. The problem now is people are figuring out how to use them properly (far node assault, spreading phantasms around a point, in the windows at Clocktower on Khylo etc). The build is not only nearly impossible to beat 1v1 but it requires no skill at all and that’s my problem.
I get that some builds are good at 1v1. Thats fine and there is a spot for those, but they at least take some skill, reaction time, thinking etc. Phantasm mesmer requires absolutely none of that. The AI does the work while you sit there and do nothing other than make sure you have the max amount out and maybe try to not group them up so they all get hit by AOE. Again, I’m not saying to destroy the build, but at least find a way to make it involve some skill, or take the auto-target/channeling/high health etc away to make it stand out in the hands of a good player.
I play as Phantasm Mesmer in hotjoins. It is sure fun, the build is without a doubt powerful 1v1, the only real counter is to try and burst me down ASAP, if I’m not dead in the first 15 seconds – it’s usually over, you won’t be able to sustain all the phantasms once they are up.
Good thieves are the most consistent counter, you can never kill a GOOD bunker Eles who AoE tons and kite well really (though they won’t kill you either), very rarely a well played Engineer gives real troubles.
No idea who said BM rangers, if anything Phantasm Mesmer counters them. Same with Minion Necro.
Phantasm Mesmer is also very good at avoiding bad fights like all kinds of difficult 1vX fights.
Troubles begin when there is too much AoE going around, which is what usually happens in any eventual team fight. Sometimes it is really depressing, because it can go as far as nullifying your damage output. Another issue is that despite being good 1v1 – you can’t hold a point well, stealth leads to neutering and you can’t really stay in the circle and take it, unless you are a tankier build, which has it’s issues (if someone decides to leg it – you won’t stop them).
All in all, this build is undoubtedly powerful, but it falls short of being OP, really, because it’s just not as omnipotent as some other builds which are both great 1v1 AND in teams.
I think it a very healthy build balance-wise, because it is made for 1v1 and that’s where it excels and not so much in other cases. In my opinion it is a good design, because it makes people take a calculated risk and decide what their speciality is. Great 1v1 builds keep party builds in check, makes them more risky to use and not become a fireproof way to victory any time.
Also, while I agree that it does not take a Ph.D to play Phantasm effectively, fighting decent guys is far from spamming buttons some seem to believe working in all the cases. For example fighting a good D/X glass thief is really brutal, it’s always a thriller there – you are one mistake away from getting downed. Same with decent Elementalists, if you don’t pay attention, you will lose ground under feet fast and there is no running from Elementalist as Mesmer.
(edited by Gaidax.7835)
*Literally forcing a 2v1 by existing in the match
*Therefore constantly forcing the opposing team to be one man short everywhere else or just flee from the mesmer
People just claim nonsense like this to be balanced? If you extremely consistently require 2 people to kill 1 person I’m pretty sure that’s the definition of over powered. You don’t even have the (bad) excuse of “being bad in team fights” by pure virtue of them being mesmers and amazing team utility.
My 2cents on phantasm: The build has great damage and little to no survivability. A good thief can and will destroy you at will. Enter stealth → backstab for 11k gg. Even if you dodge the backstab his auto attacks hit for 2-3k each and he can/will restealth and try again until he gets the jump on you.
Can they win duels? Yeah usually. But they have 0 mobility meaning they can’t decap far in a reasonable time frame. They can do great work if they have good positioning in a teamfight but they can fall victim to thiefs/warriors in seconds if caught offguard while sniping with GS.
Can they bunker home? No not really since they go invisible and have 0 armor. They can’t stand on a point or hold out 1v2+ for any legitimate amount of time.
Basically they are frustrating due to the stupid high damage but they don’t fill any role well.
Proud GW2 Esports Guild Admin and Coach. Whisper me for duels, help, or guild invites.
Forums don’t get anything nerfed.
Having said that… it makes sense that it’s mostly thieves who complain about Phantasm mesmers and BM rangers as ‘pet’ AI is best able to find their target after a stealth-and-flee and I am greatly amused at your plight.
Just too reiterate what the OP said, 5-9k Dmg from a AI… is absurd Anet.
If you want to talk about “absurd” mechanics, let’s talk about initiative and stealth. There are plenty of ways to deal 3-9k damage. My warrior alt in Masterwork gear and weapons reaches as high 9k with HB. My condition damage ranger stacks poison, bleeding and burning and melts everything in his path using traps and Entangle.
Over here we have Mug>Backstab>CnD = 3~ seconds of insta-gib trolling, each skill capable of greater than 3k and as high as 12k if your opponent isn’t stacking toughness and/or vitality (not including the auto-attack and Heartseeker follow-up — oh, and don’t try to get away, they do bonus damage from behind/the side, auto-face, AND leap toward you, and this can be done 3-4 times in succession with only 1 second between attacks).
Other professions are forced to play defensively while thieves are afforded the ability to use berserker equipment/trinkets and deal incredibly fast, high damage with no penalty when the profession is played well.
Since I’m forced to use toughness/vitality on everything but my thief, I do. Thieves no longer kill me without a friend around. However I can rarely kill a thief unless the player isn’t very good. The good ones always escape.
Men who achieve some power desire more until they destroy themselves trying to get it.—Turai Ossa
Sanctum of Rall since beta 3. Mesmer since 1070 AE
Sanctum of Rall since beta 3. Mesmer since 1070 AE
(edited by Aneirin Cadwall.9126)
Thieves are very ridiculous.
Like many people I don’t like having the majority of my damage coming from summons, yet with mesmer, using summons to do damage is the only option.
You can either do damage with phantasms or with traited mind wrack. Nothing else deals any real damage on mesmer (with the exception of GS #2 at point blank range and Staff AA in a condition build).
Listen guys stop saying they are not good in team fights just because one person said it above baa. Look they choose between portal and null field both group skill more or less, they grant regen to everyone when they cast a illusion, they have a high dmg aoe/cripple, and mesmers add extra targets to every fight. So saying they are bad in team fights is foolish.
edit: they can also take blink if they are roaming.
I was main mesmer from pre order beta till a few months ago.
I see good ideas every day …good in theory. – Shawn Farthing
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
Masters in Geek Mythology
YOU ARE NOT THE INVENTOR OF WORDS!!! lol
(edited by Thesilentflute.8761)
they have a high dmg aoe/cripple
Wat. It’s a weapon specific skill, damage is average and AoE cripple is nothing special. If they are running GS they’re dead anyway.
You can gripe about thieves but a thief that isn’t actively playing, positioning, timing stealth etc is a dead thief. My point was that a phantasm mesmer does noting except summon phantasms and that’s it. They do all the killing/work. The mesmer has to do nothing but run around/stealth/blink/phase retreat etc. The may be glassy but they have lots of ways of surviving including phase retreat, stealth etc.
My gripe is not just with the damage they put out as I am well aware there are other dps classes, my gripe is exactly what Jzaku mentioned and that in a tournament when they push far point by nature they force a 2v1 because there are very few classes/builds that can win a 1v1 against them. Saying they have no place in tournaments no longer works because they are certainly being brought into high level tournies where the cheese of the build is becoming more obvious.
I’m not whining calling for a major nerf to damage or whining about thieves (lord knows thieves have been nerfed enough). What I’m calling for is an adjustment to an iWin button through computer controlled AI. Make the build involve skill. ANY kind of skill. Even the mesmers and the phantasm build defenders admit the build takes absolutely zero skill. That’s what I’d like to see fixed.
The number of top teams with Phantasm Mesmers = Zero.
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The number of good players who have a problem going up against Phantasm Mesmer = Zero.
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All I hear from some of you in this thread is… “I don’t like this style of gameplay, it shouldn’t be in the game.”Newsflash… a lot of people enjoy it. The build is far from overpowered, and borderline useless in competitive gameplay.
Leave it be.
This. Phantasm mesmers are worthless in tpvp, and the few you actually get are usually going down vs most shatters even with a “dueling” spec (Cuz 99% tpvp phantasm mesmers are low ranks obviously) so not really a problem. May be a problem if you play hothoin or swag duel but since both 1vs1 and hotjoin are crap this is not an issue at all imo..
This. Phantasm mesmers are worthless in tpvp, and the few you actually get are usually going down vs most shatters even with a “dueling” spec (Cuz 99% tpvp phantasm mesmers are low ranks obviously) so not really a problem. May be a problem if you play hothoin or swag duel but since both 1vs1 and hotjoin are crap this is not an issue at all imo..
You guys are wrong. Again, this USED to be the only reason and excuse this build wasn’t in the spotlight. It’s becoming more and more common in tournaments and THAT is the problem. When you have a build that absolutely requires you to send another person to defend your home node because a class can easily 1v1 someone it creates unbalance. I honestly wouldn’t care if it was only super lethal in the hands of a really good player (i.e. I’ve seen Teldo push far point over and over but he’s extremely skilled at his class and thus it’s not effective in the hands of everyone). Phantasm builds are click and win builds. There is very little to no skill level involved because the AI does the work. If it wasn’t for this build emerging in the tournament scene I wouldn’t care in the least.
The mesmer has to do nothing but run around/stealth/blink/phase retreat etc. The may be glassy but they have lots of ways of surviving including phase retreat, stealth etc.
Same could be said about thieves, except the thief has to do attacks, which is easy to do with the amount of gap closes and invis they have. For most classes damage mitigation is done by active defenses (dodges, blocks and invuls) which are impossible to correctly time vs a thief because they do burst out of invis. Heck they don’t even lose invis and backstab possibility if you correctly dodge or blind them. As far defenses go, they have even more evades, teleports, stun breakers and invis than a mesmer. It’s next to impossible to land things on them, especially in wvw with 3 sec reveal.
I’m not whining calling for a major nerf to damage or whining about thieves (lord knows thieves have been nerfed enough). What I’m calling for is an adjustment to an iWin button through computer controlled AI. Make the build involve skill. ANY kind of skill. Even the mesmers and the phantasm build defenders admit the build takes absolutely zero skill. That’s what I’d like to see fixed.
And how do you propose to do that? They are summons.
The build is pure cheese.
People used to say this build has no place in tournaments because AOE would destroy the phantasms but as noticed today in the tournament with Apollo playing such a build, there is literally no class that can win a 1v1 against a phantasm mesmer except MAYBE an engi that has a ton of AOE.
@ cheese Ohh yes it is
On a side note: The retaliation on phantasm trait (which you should get in a phantasm build?!) should pwn any engi daring to attack them. Reta is just such a pain to deal with on engineer especially if its friggin PERMANENT!
There is very little to no skill level involved because the AI does the work.
What work? Targetting? As opposed to other builds which involve manual skillshots? Not sure what you’re getting at. Phantasms are externalized DoTs that can be killed. The fact that they aim at enemies and attack is not much different from any other summon/pet and in principle not much different from players attacking. Players don’t need to aim either, no skill required there, if you have a rifle you click on the player and press 1-5. How is running around with ranger, selecting enemies then hitting 1-5 for constant high DPS different from phantasms?
As thieves like to say so often to other people:
l2p.
Also, as they enjoy pointing out – the game is not balanced around 1v1s.
Get used to dying to phantasm mesmers if you’re a thief since they melt your face off as soon as you exit stealth. One of the best stealth counters I’ve ever seen. Working as intended.
The only reason I play a phantasm mesmer is to take thieves down easily. Best. Build. Ever.
Your concerns would be valid if PvP was balanced around 1v1, which is the only area the phantasm builds excel. However, that’s not the case.
Phantasm builds do just fine in team fights as well, illusion of life and the AOE from Izerker alone are great team fight tools. On top of that, nothing can really hold up against them 1v1 at equal skill level, specially not engies with perma retal on every phantasm. Mesmers, shatter too but to a lesser extent, and def phantasm build along with BM rangers are the only noticeably OP classes/builds atm. The reason is similar for both, having “pets” that hit way too hard, enabling them to focus on survival while the pet does dmg. The end result is that their damage is too high for how hard they are too kill, same issue eles used to have. This is pretty straightforward stuff, there is no need to reinvent the wheel just tone down the ranger pet/phantasm/mindwreck damage some and it’s all set.
Vidallis – 50 Shades of Pink – Engi/Warrior
Your concerns would be valid if PvP was balanced around 1v1, which is the only area the phantasm builds excel. However, that’s not the case.
I don’t get this rationalization. In Conquest 1v1’s and small skirms are not only common place but are integral to winning matches. The game might not be balanced solely for “1v1” but it is in fact being balanced for Conquest and that format includes a good deal of 1v1 and small skirming.
Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
As a warrior, I just run away usually.
BeeGee
Beast mode
Beast mode
Phantasm builds are insanely overpowered in 1v1s. There is not a class in the game (including all those classes someone mentioned above) that has even a chance in hell of killing my phantasm build. Fighting non-mesmers on a phantasm build is just so easy it’s laughable. The only situation in which a phantasm build gets challenged is in a fight with another mesmer.
This is pretty much indisputable. Something needs to be changed with the phantasm builds to make them less stupidly overpowered in a 1v1, while at the same time more effective in situations of high aoe damage. I’m not entirely sure yet what needs to change, but some change is inevitable.
There are plenty of effective 1v1 builds out there – just take a look at the results from trooper’s 1v1 tourney on the EU servers or the NMCC last week. Phantasm mesmers are by no means unbeatable 1v1 – these tournaments proved this.
Also a lot of this thread is talking about some fantasy build that has all the possible traits (“30/30/30/30/30”?). The traits buffing phantasms are spread through all 5 trait lines and there are a number of different builds being referred to generically as “phantasm” but each of these different builds has different weaknesses whether its burst damage or condi damage or aoe damage or whatever.
Kavia Kael
Champion Illusionist
Stormbluff Isle
Champion Illusionist
Stormbluff Isle
There are plenty of effective 1v1 builds out there – just take a look at the results from trooper’s 1v1 tourney on the EU servers or the NMCC last week. Phantasm mesmers are by no means unbeatable 1v1 – these tournaments proved this.
Signet of illusion ban was pretty much the only reason why it was possible to beat them.
There are plenty of effective 1v1 builds out there – just take a look at the results from trooper’s 1v1 tourney on the EU servers or the NMCC last week. Phantasm mesmers are by no means unbeatable 1v1 – these tournaments proved this.
Signet of illusion ban was pretty much the only reason why it was possible to beat them.
And in wvw, people don’t have bans. Thieves are also not punished for stealth resets.
And then there’s 110% crit damage and food to boot.
I think actually a thief might stand a chance at a phantasm mesmer in wvw because the difference between 60% crit damage bonus and 110% is pretty large in backstab’s favor.
In spvp your backstab will rarely go beyond 6k. In wvw it easily goes for 8-9k, and with a popped signet easily 10k.
I am a warrior and I have no problem with Phantasmal Mesmers. You have to be up-close with them and burst them down. Phantasmal Mesmers have no sustain, all they do is heal and rely on phantasms as shields. Just dodge phantasms as much as possible and go up-close with them.
I am a warrior and I have no problem with Phantasmal Mesmers. You have to be up-close with them and burst them down. Phantasmal Mesmers have no sustain, all they do is heal and rely on phantasms as shields. Just dodge phantasms as much as possible and go up-close with them.
you’ve never fought a mesmer with Signet of Illusions, staff + sword/sword and Phantasmal Defender, have you? That’s nothing but sustain.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Actually I have, although those builds are rare. Staff and Sword phantasms are something you can laugh at, they only do 1 hit as a burst so you can’t even worry about being bursted, if you know how to dodge, that is. Avoid their chaos spells then just attack them and put pressure on them.
And they have stealth elite, decoy, and blink. So, I don’t know how in hell you’re actually pressuring them more than they pressure you. In between those they have an 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion and the distortion shatter.
We are talking about phantasm mesmers here. I have another strategy for shatter builds. Phantasmal mesmers rarely use number 2, only if they get close enough, and why would they shatter for distortion? It would just relieve me and I would go full offense before they puts more up. The stealth elite has a long cd, and there are also other elites mesmers will choose from, plus why would phantasmal mesmers use blink, and decoy only gives a couple sec of stealth before a decent cd cooldown.
It’s easier to pressure Phantasmal Mesmers than they pressure you because the build really relies on phantasms and if you can dodge phantasms(they also have limited time before attacking, the phantasms) and burst them, they will receive pressure.
(edited by Skelemiere.3094)
A phantasm mesmer runs blink, decoy, and signet of illusions. Those 2 utilities completely stop you from either stunning and landing an eviscerate or 100b, on measly 30 and 32 second cd each. Blink allows him to kite you pretty easily.
A phantasm mesmer variant also runs double swords and greatsword. They got a traited 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion to use whenever you’re about to burst (and Blurred Frenzy hits for about 4-6k) and then a 12 sec counterblock on offhand sword that hits for 4k crits them while they stall for their next round of phantasm hits.
You can dodge, but the phantasms are staggered, which means they don’t all attack at the same time, you got 2 dodges, and once 3 phantasms are out you will regularly be eating at least one phantasm hit. Forcing your dodges means you’ll be eating his knockbacks or blurred frenzy damage all while he kites you and pelts you with a GS.
If he’s running staff you won’t be meleeing him much.
Phant is crappy team fight on the basis that they are focused early, brought down fairly quickly, and offer very little in terms of support that another mesmer can’t already do.
that tiny bit of Regen even specced full healing isn’t carrying the team fight, and IMHO Immortal mesmer build is more viable for competitive play if we’re going to talk about support.
1v1 however they have tons of survivability both in skills and inate abillity, with heavy sustained spikes over a long period of time (not as much as a shatterer but more frequent)
like rangers. Abillity to outlast > incoming burst + sustained damage over long periods of time = you outlast your foe while they slowly die.
meaning you push off point unless someone is going to just take it laying down and die.
and yes this is fine if they are not bringing much to a team fight other than what another mesmer can’t already do.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
(edited by Daishi.6027)
A phantasm mesmer runs blink, decoy, and signet of illusions. Those 2 utilities completely stop you from either stunning and landing an eviscerate or 100b, on measly 30 and 32 second cd each. Blink allows him to kite you pretty easily.
A phantasm mesmer variant also runs double swords and greatsword. They got a traited 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion to use whenever you’re about to burst (and Blurred Frenzy hits for about 4-6k) and then a 12 sec counterblock on offhand sword that hits for 4k crits them while they stall for their next round of phantasm hits.
You can dodge, but the phantasms are staggered, which means they don’t all attack at the same time, you got 2 dodges, and once 3 phantasms are out you will regularly be eating at least one phantasm hit. Forcing your dodges means you’ll be eating his knockbacks or blurred frenzy damage all while he kites you and pelts you with a GS.
If he’s running staff you won’t be meleeing him much.
You are making phantasmal mesmers sound immortal..ask any warrior or close-ranged people who can beat phantasmal mesmers. So easy to land a hit.
A phantasm mesmer runs blink, decoy, and signet of illusions. Those 2 utilities completely stop you from either stunning and landing an eviscerate or 100b, on measly 30 and 32 second cd each. Blink allows him to kite you pretty easily.
A phantasm mesmer variant also runs double swords and greatsword. They got a traited 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion to use whenever you’re about to burst (and Blurred Frenzy hits for about 4-6k) and then a 12 sec counterblock on offhand sword that hits for 4k crits them while they stall for their next round of phantasm hits.
You can dodge, but the phantasms are staggered, which means they don’t all attack at the same time, you got 2 dodges, and once 3 phantasms are out you will regularly be eating at least one phantasm hit. Forcing your dodges means you’ll be eating his knockbacks or blurred frenzy damage all while he kites you and pelts you with a GS.
If he’s running staff you won’t be meleeing him much.
You are making phantasmal mesmers sound immortal..ask any warrior or close-ranged people who can beat phantasmal mesmers. So easy to land a hit.
If he’s trying to hold a point, sure. If he wants to kite you, you will not kill one.
And they have stealth elite, decoy, and blink. So, I don’t know how in hell you’re actually pressuring them more than they pressure you. In between those they have an 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion and the distortion shatter.
How do they have decoy and blink if they have phantasmal defender and signet of illusions. Did they add the 4th utility slot?
In the end, Mesmer is a Summoner archetype class. ANet said so many times in the beta.
You basically have 2 builds: phantasm family and mind wrack burst. Both have the same game plan: use summons for damage, go for defense in everything else.
There are no other options for mesmer. Nearly every mesmer in spvp uses sword/x+staff because you can’t survive without it. Nearly every mesmer uses blind+decoy, because you can’t survive without it. And you need to survive so your summons have time to do damage. There are no other builds.
Also all mesmer balance data is based on 20% shortened cooldowns on all illusion summoning skills. And it’s hard to have enough clones to use the class mechanic without Clone on Dodge trait.
But people complain about both builds (mind wrack and phantasm).
What I propose is that you all test how mesmer plays if you don’t play one of these 2 builds. Roll a mesmer and make a build that doesn’t take 20% mind wrack damage trait and shatter all phantasms immediately. Go play that, then come back here and tell me how wonderful that was. Go and autoattack people with sword, see how that works for you.
(edited by ManCaptain.3154)
And they have stealth elite, decoy, and blink. So, I don’t know how in hell you’re actually pressuring them more than they pressure you. In between those they have an 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion and the distortion shatter.
How do they have decoy and blink if they have phantasmal defender and signet of illusions. Did they add the 4th utility slot?
In the end, Mesmer is a Summoner archetype class. ANet said so many times in the beta.
You basically have 2 builds: phantasm family and mind wrack burst. Both have the same game plan: use summons for damage, go for defense in everything else.
There are no other options for mesmer. Nearly every mesmer in spvp uses sword/x+staff because you can’t survive without it. Nearly every mesmer uses blind+decoy, because you can’t survive without it. And you need to survive so your summons have time to do damage. There are no other builds.Also all mesmer balance data is based on 20% shortened cooldowns on all illusion summoning skills. And it’s hard to have enough clones to use the class mechanic without Clone on Dodge trait.
But people complain about both builds (mind wrack and phantasm).
What I propose is that you all test how mesmer plays if you don’t play one of these 2 builds. Roll a mesmer and make a build that doesn’t take 20% mind wrack damage trait and shatter all phantasms immediately. Go play that, then come back here and tell me how wonderful that was.
You don’t use phantasmal defender. Either of those utilities will do much more to avoid what actually kills you rather than taking 50% less damage, but taking a whole lot more of that 50% damage for a period of time because you couldn’t peel him.
Evasion>>>>>>>mitigation.
Peels and disengage, especially if they are stunbreakers, are a lot better than tanking damage. I’m sure necromancers and warriors will tell you of how much good tanking mechanics have done for them.
A phantasm mesmer runs blink, decoy, and signet of illusions. Those 2 utilities completely stop you from either stunning and landing an eviscerate or 100b, on measly 30 and 32 second cd each. Blink allows him to kite you pretty easily.
A phantasm mesmer variant also runs double swords and greatsword. They got a traited 8 sec cd 2 sec distortion to use whenever you’re about to burst (and Blurred Frenzy hits for about 4-6k) and then a 12 sec counterblock on offhand sword that hits for 4k crits them while they stall for their next round of phantasm hits.
You can dodge, but the phantasms are staggered, which means they don’t all attack at the same time, you got 2 dodges, and once 3 phantasms are out you will regularly be eating at least one phantasm hit. Forcing your dodges means you’ll be eating his knockbacks or blurred frenzy damage all while he kites you and pelts you with a GS.
If he’s running staff you won’t be meleeing him much.
You are making phantasmal mesmers sound immortal..ask any warrior or close-ranged people who can beat phantasmal mesmers. So easy to land a hit.
The idea that any warrior build could beat a well played phantasm mesmer is rather laughable. You’ll never get close enough to hit them. If you get close, they’ll just invuln, then blink away, or decoy out, summon more phantasms, etc.
Sword phantasms in the proper build will hit for 6.5k per strike on a glass cannon, and around 4k per strike on a bunker. They attack every 3.5 seconds.
Pistol phantasms hit for 5k-6k on a glass cannon, or 3k-4k on a bunker. They also stack generally around 6 stacks of bleeding. They attack every 5.4 seconds.
If you think you can ignore multiple damage phantasms hammering on you… well, you’ve got another thing coming entirely.
I’m pretty sure those numbers are too high if you consider the average. Also those 2 phantasms are never on the same build.
I’m pretty sure those numbers are too high if you consider the average.
Having played a phantasm mesmer, I can guarantee you that they aren’t. In my build, my phantasms have around 80% crit chance. The numbers I gave for the swordsmen are assuming crits, but the numbers for the duelists are not, as they do an 8 shot salvo that will have a nice mix of crits and non-crits. I can tell you that the swordsmen hit like absolute trucks, and since they attack every 3.5 seconds, they set an absolutely brutal damage pace that is completely impossible to keep up with.
As for those 2 phantasms never appearing on the same build……https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Overpowered-PvP-Phantasm-Build/first