Guild Wars 2

Let’s just put it this way, never mind about the pvt elementalist, DP thief and other powerful builds… Probably goes either way with skill, but I think mesmer is way easier to set up…

Can a ranger, warrior, engineer and other weaker builds beat this?

A good experienced mesmer will never lose to anything 1v1. It’s the strongest prof in the game brah… cmon now.

Once i saw a friend playing with a dirty phantasm build , he was very hard to kill 1N1 , even with my condi thief who usually crush ALL mesmer.

So i just decided to test it myself , and was the first time palying mesmer. after 2 hours of play , i was able to win 80% of my 1n1 ( and most of them were vs exprerienced players)

SO yeah the phantasm build is very strong in 1n1 but he is not so effective in tpvp match because pets will die fast in team fight , you cant hold a point as good as a shatter mesmer with portal , and as dps roamer , theres much better than a mesmer^^

So phantasm mesmer are just ok with the current state of the game , and they can be beaten for sure , Mesmers are very weak to conditions , if you manage to apply poison then any other condi like burning or bleeding , they will die .

Mesmer is a duelist profession, they are pretty much impossible to beat 1vs1.

so wrong, mesmers mostly dont run many condition removal, try to drop them a load of conditions, see how long they will last.

lame as a bunker ranger, i have limited ways of dealing condi damage, but thats my build and wep choice just having a natural counter

Seen bm rangers beat them 1on1, and good eles.

it’s very doable, but still a tough challenge, I feel sometimes the level of skill requirement to pull off some claims on these forums are very underestimated..

bunker bm ranger is stronger, a well played engi maybe as well

Every heavy condition spec can easily wreck pretty much every equally skilled mesmer spec 1vs1

Phantasm mesmer will only lose a 1v1 if they make a mistake. Even if you bring their weakness (Burst or Lots of Condi) they will still only lose if they make a mistake.

You have to be on the ball to beat a good phantasm mesmer. Being even a fraction of a second slow is the difference between taking no damage or being instakilled on a valk ele.

They’re not too hard if you’re good at predicting and avoiding their burst, and just about impossible otherwise.

A phantasm mesmer often has at least 25 in inspiration. You can easily go 30 and get condi remove on shatter. While shattering lowers your sustained damage for a while, it allows you to cleanse 3 conditions per shatter.
Combined with some clone generation with dodge rolls and weaponskills, you can easily double shatter as phantasm mesmer.
Double shatter will remove 6 conditions.
And it’s not like Mind Wrack doesn’t do damage on a phantasm spec. It’s less then a pure shatter build, but it’s still easily within the 3-5k damage range.

Oh and engi actually has some problems. The grenades will often hit 2, retaliation buffed, phantasms, for like 1k damage (~3 times 300), which in return will reflect like 1.5-2k damage back.

Varonth.5830:

A phantasm mesmer often has at least 25 in inspiration. You can easily go 30 and get condi remove on shatter. While shattering lowers your sustained damage for a while, it allows you to cleanse 3 conditions per shatter.
Combined with some clone generation with dodge rolls and weaponskills, you can easily double shatter as phantasm mesmer.
Double shatter will remove 6 conditions.
And it’s not like Mind Wrack doesn’t do damage on a phantasm spec. It’s less then a pure shatter build, but it’s still easily within the 3-5k damage range.

Oh and engi actually has some problems. The grenades will often hit 2, retaliation buffed, phantasms, for like 1k damage (~3 times 300), which in return will reflect like 1.5-2k damage back.

You never shatter as a phantasm mesmer or have deceptive evasion, it kills your phantasms when you summon 3.

Puandro.3245:

Varonth.5830:

A phantasm mesmer often has at least 25 in inspiration. You can easily go 30 and get condi remove on shatter. While shattering lowers your sustained damage for a while, it allows you to cleanse 3 conditions per shatter.
Combined with some clone generation with dodge rolls and weaponskills, you can easily double shatter as phantasm mesmer.
Double shatter will remove 6 conditions.
And it’s not like Mind Wrack doesn’t do damage on a phantasm spec. It’s less then a pure shatter build, but it’s still easily within the 3-5k damage range.

Oh and engi actually has some problems. The grenades will often hit 2, retaliation buffed, phantasms, for like 1k damage (~3 times 300), which in return will reflect like 1.5-2k damage back.

You never shatter as a phantasm mesmer or have deceptive evasion, it kills your phantasms when you summon 3.

I wrote that in my post. Yet, if you have to decide between having 10+ bleeding, poison and 10s of burning + phantasms, or shattering phantasms and resummon them (and in the offtime, spawn some clones if needed and just shatter again), well I go for the shatter, as surviving has priority.
Also, you will almost never be able to summon 3 weapon phantasm. They will die at some point. Then you just replace it with the same again. If you are actually having 3 phantasms out, your aren’t getting in trouble anyway, as you enemy is either afk, or not attacking you in any way.

If he is attacking you, he is going to kill phantasms at some point, by random AoE. But that is ok, as you know that a dead phantasm dealt quite some damage back to the enemy with retaliation.

Varonth.5830:

Puandro.3245:

Varonth.5830:

A phantasm mesmer often has at least 25 in inspiration. You can easily go 30 and get condi remove on shatter. While shattering lowers your sustained damage for a while, it allows you to cleanse 3 conditions per shatter.
Combined with some clone generation with dodge rolls and weaponskills, you can easily double shatter as phantasm mesmer.
Double shatter will remove 6 conditions.
And it’s not like Mind Wrack doesn’t do damage on a phantasm spec. It’s less then a pure shatter build, but it’s still easily within the 3-5k damage range.

Oh and engi actually has some problems. The grenades will often hit 2, retaliation buffed, phantasms, for like 1k damage (~3 times 300), which in return will reflect like 1.5-2k damage back.

You never shatter as a phantasm mesmer or have deceptive evasion, it kills your phantasms when you summon 3.

I wrote that in my post. Yet, if you have to decide between having 10+ bleeding, poison and 10s of burning + phantasms, or shattering phantasms and resummon them (and in the offtime, spawn some clones if needed and just shatter again), well I go for the shatter, as surviving has priority.
Also, you will almost never be able to summon 3 weapon phantasm. They will die at some point. Then you just replace it with the same again. If you are actually having 3 phantasms out, your aren’t getting in trouble anyway, as you enemy is either afk, or not attacking you in any way.

If he is attacking you, he is going to kill phantasms at some point, by random AoE. But that is ok, as you know that a dead phantasm dealt quite some damage back to the enemy with retaliation.

I never get hit enough by condis to make it an issue that my cleanse on heal trait won’t cover. You can always run 1 mantra to cleanse or Null field too.

If they are attacking my phantasm means im not likely to get covered by condis. If they are attacking me ill just chain dodges, blurred frenzy, or stealth and summon a 3rd phantasm and finish them. Classes that you can get 3 phantasm pretty often are Thief due to stealth, guardians, eles, rangers. Also there are better traits than deceptive evasion for phantasm mesmers.

Power Necro’s, Bunker BM Ranger and a well played Engineer are counters to Phantasm Mesmers.

Also, very good Thieves… and I’m not talking about your average run of the mill Thieves, I’m talking about top players… someone who knows the Thief inside out, will eat up a Phantasm Mesmer for dinner, no matter how good the Phantasm Mesmer is.

Varonth.5830:

A phantasm mesmer often has at least 25 in inspiration. You can easily go 30 and get condi remove on shatter. While shattering lowers your sustained damage for a while, it allows you to cleanse 3 conditions per shatter.
Combined with some clone generation with dodge rolls and weaponskills, you can easily double shatter as phantasm mesmer.
Double shatter will remove 6 conditions.
And it’s not like Mind Wrack doesn’t do damage on a phantasm spec. It’s less then a pure shatter build, but it’s still easily within the 3-5k damage range.

Oh and engi actually has some problems. The grenades will often hit 2, retaliation buffed, phantasms, for like 1k damage (~3 times 300), which in return will reflect like 1.5-2k damage back.

lol

My ranger, staff ele, and bunker turret engi have had no issues disposing of phantasm builds, you just wanna use a large amount of AoE or condis and they tend to fold.

My god was i getting my kitten pounded by them before i figured out condis hit them hard lol.

In sPvP? Yeah, probably that’s true.

I main Phantasm Mesmer and I can vouch that in a pure 1v1 it is almost impossible to lose. I still get surprised here and there, but let’s say – 70% of 1v1 fights are total cheese, 20% more are actually decent and 10% are hard.

Even if you somehow manage to start losing, you can just run away pretty easily. This also lets you use Zerker gear in sPvP, since your 21k HP and tons of active defenses is more than enough for all common tasks.

Bigger fights are annoying though – phantasms are very weak to AoE and the more people around – the more random AoE kitten flying around. On the upside, though, you can disengage easily and return in a couple of seconds while enemy team switches attention to the friendly cannon fodder and start sniping people from range pretty well. Honorable mention – iZerker from 1200 range – sometimes it whirls through all the enemy party giving off 4k AoE damage and cripple… Pretty cool seeing everyone’s HP plummet there in a split second. Switch to sword and leap in with Blurred Frenzy for another 3-4k AoE, you will survive just fine too.

Jasher.6580:

Also, very good Thieves… and I’m not talking about your average run of the mill Thieves, I’m talking about top players… someone who knows the Thief inside out, will eat up a Phantasm Mesmer for dinner, no matter how good the Phantasm Mesmer is.

They won’t eat them for dinner, but they have a punchers chance.

Don’t get it twisted though, the odds are not in their favor

Nothing’s unbeatable, just that build editing, like anything else, has a skill ceiling, which, for some professions, can be very high.

You just need to find the build that best suits your purposes.

Durzlla.6295:

My ranger, staff ele, and bunker turret engi have had no issues disposing of phantasm builds, you just wanna use a large amount of AoE or condis and they tend to fold.

Oh man, please, please record a video of using your staff ele to beat anything 1v1. I’ve cannot even fathom how a staff ele could beat any class in a 1v1, so I’m ready to have my mind blown.

Not sarcasm, seriously interested in seeing a decent 1v1 staff ele gameplay simply because I can’t imagine one.

How on earth are you using a bunker turret build to fight a Phantasm build though? The turrets’ AI are dumb as bricks and go for nearest target. The CC’s excellent and lots of fun and effective against single classes without additional summons, but I can’t imagine them ever targeting the mesmer enough over the phantasms that they can bring up every 12 seconds and illusions as well to be able to defeat them.

To the original topic— Mesmers in general are exceedingly strong at 1v1 scenarios (much like Rangers), but as part of their strength comes from the rather fragile illusions staying up for shatter setup and additional DPS, they become increasingly less effective the more opponents and AoE there are in a fighting area. Since the game’s balanced around tPvP and not duels at the moment, Mesmers will have an inherent advantage over other classes in 1v1’s.

Depending on what build I’m in my necro can take a phantasm mesmer… If i’m in my Vampire Dagger build I can’t, But my E-Bomb Necro that I’ve been running lately can, Simply because it deals damage to the real one as well as all of the clones evenly and heavily.

On a side note I imagine a tanky earth ele with a good grasp on AoE damage could find similar success.

Doctoris.2675:

Durzlla.6295:

My ranger, staff ele, and bunker turret engi have had no issues disposing of phantasm builds, you just wanna use a large amount of AoE or condis and they tend to fold.

Oh man, please, please record a video of using your staff ele to beat anything 1v1. I’ve cannot even fathom how a staff ele could beat any class in a 1v1, so I’m ready to have my mind blown.

Not sarcasm, seriously interested in seeing a decent 1v1 staff ele gameplay simply because I can’t imagine one.

How on earth are you using a bunker turret build to fight a Phantasm build though? The turrets’ AI are dumb as bricks and go for nearest target. The CC’s excellent and lots of fun and effective against single classes without additional summons, but I can’t imagine them ever targeting the mesmer enough over the phantasms that they can bring up every 12 seconds and illusions as well to be able to defeat them.

To the original topic— Mesmers in general are exceedingly strong at 1v1 scenarios (much like Rangers), but as part of their strength comes from the rather fragile illusions staying up for shatter setup and additional DPS, they become increasingly less effective the more opponents and AoE there are in a fighting area. Since the game’s balanced around tPvP and not duels at the moment, Mesmers will have an inherent advantage over other classes in 1v1’s.

The Staff ele is AMAZING in sPvP because almost all their aoes consume the entire point, especially if you take Blasting Staff, making it very easy to burn people down who don’t want to flee the point, not to mention they’re a phantasm mesmers worst nightmare (big AoEs that hit REALLY hard, which phantasms can’t avoid).

For Turrets i use rifle, rocket, flame (and healing) and the rocket and flame will just tear the phantasms apart most of the times faster than the mes can get em out leaving them weak and alone. Not to mention i’m quite capable of lighting the mes up with my poison, burning, bleeding, and confusion. shrugs it varies from fight to fight, some fights the turrets go kitten to the extreme and never even look at the mesmer, but most they tend to be good.

Never seen staff Ele yet… I can imagine anything with good AoE is troublesome.

As for engineer, they are pretty easy. Turrets are really easy to counter – get Berserker out on one, it will usually whirl through all the turrets, then leap in the middle of them and Blurred Frenzy all of them. That is usually enough to get rid of most of them. After that it’s a field day on that engineer.

Null Field to counter condition spam.

Is this thread a joke? Engineers, Rangers, Necros, or anything else with moderate AoE/conditions absolutely destroys Phantasm Mesmers. It’s a one-trick noob spec that only works on people who try to zerg down the Mesmer through all their survival abilities.

Celeras.4980:

Is this thread a joke? Engineers, Rangers, Necros, or anything else with moderate AoE/conditions absolutely destroys Phantasm Mesmers. It’s a one-trick noob spec that only works on people who try to zerg down the Mesmer through all their survival abilities.

Not really, an experience enough phastasm mesmer can beat almost any class or build 1 vs 1. Phastasm are actually rather cheap to summon which makes their build deadly.

Actually, zerg down a mesmer is actually the most effective was to kill a phastasm.

Phastasm mesmer is a pure dueling spec. No extra suvivability, low mobility, and bad at 1 vs 2 scenarios which make this mesmer nowhere to be found on tpvp

Really heavy condi builds and high burst wreck me as Phantasm (which is all I play, GS & S/P) depending in utilities.

In a team spec u need portal and signet of illusions to be relatively useful. In a 1v1 build I would swap them out for arcane thievery and null field which would help a bit more but still, a HGH Engi or condi ranger will still eat you up though.

D/D thieves can wreck me aswell if they get a backstab off.

Gaidax.7835:

Never seen staff Ele yet… I can imagine anything with good AoE is troublesome.

As for engineer, they are pretty easy. Turrets are really easy to counter – get Berserker out on one, it will usually whirl through all the turrets, then leap in the middle of them and Blurred Frenzy all of them. That is usually enough to get rid of most of them. After that it’s a field day on that engineer.

Null Field to counter condition spam.

What idiot places all their turrets right by each other O.o, I always put rifle and rocket ~1200 from the far side of the point (both on opposite sides) so they’re out of the AoE nonsense but can still pew pew their targets, only thumper/flame an healing should ever go anywhere NEAR the points…

You’re just fighting stupid engineers.

AFAIK the top 2 dueling specs are BM rangers and perma-stealth D/P thieves running heal/condi cleanse in stealth. They both can outlast Phantasm Mesmers. I’m not really sure where Phantasm Mesmers fall in the pecking order of dueling builds after those two. But those two builds are far and away the best dueling specs IMO.

I play a phantasm mesmer myself and have just touched r40. And I have to admit…it’s definitely a bit OP.

Those who say “Oh it’s only great in 1v1s” don’t realize that for some people, losing 1v1 matters more to them than losing the match. It’s humiliating – especially when you feel it was because of the build and not due to skill. You don’t feel bad if you lose the match because it’s a team effort. Being beaten 1v1 is all on you. Your fault entirely.

As a phantasm mesmer, my only trouble comes from another phantasm mesmer (and if I’m not careful, a shatter mes). In these fights it’s all about who gets the drop on whom. I try and open with my ranged stun and whoever manages to pull out the first two phantasms on the right mesmer is essentially the winner.

There is literally no build I have met that can withstand a phant mesmer. No thief, no necro, no guardian, warrior, or ele. There might be one I haven’t met or no one has discovered yet though…

But to the main point – I don’t think it’s fair that any one build should ever completely dominate almost every other. Regardless of what you may think, 1v1 matters. It matters to the player experiencing it. Far more than mere match winning/losing.

Btw, this build is also awesome for farming rank points in hotjoins. When I tPvP I prefer pyro’s immortal build. Though if there are already a lot of bunkers, then the phant mesmer is perfect for huge dps and downing the enemy’s bunkers.

I haven’t faced Phantasm Mesmers for a long time (they were rather uncommon before custom servers allowed proper dueling arenas), and was surprised to find that my Condition Mesmer is stomped by most Phantasm Mesmers. Before most Mesmers I faced were Shatter Mesmers, and they’re usually very vulnerable to Condition Mesmers.

It may be that I am not used to it yet and simply have to adapt, perhaps by timing Distortion to Phantasm burst or something. Unfortunately killing Phantasms is rather difficult with a Condition Mesmer.

Having said that, frequently 40% of players in a dueling server will be Phantasm Mesmers, which I think is rather telling.

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

It’s the Hearp Dearp easy mode 1v1 build.

Like BM Roam Ranger and P/D thief.

Except unlike P/D thief. Phantasm much like BM roam takes little to no skill to excel, unless you completely inept.

GOOD NEWS the builds are strong 1v1 but the are crap in team fights. So in tournies they are fairly useless in premades unless you have a niche team with a specific strategy. Teams suffer a lot for bringing more than one of these builds and can even suffer for having just one.

As for phantasms weakness?

Kill the phants as they are summoned. Then focus the mesmer on c/d.

Terrain is a weakness (which you don’t always have the advantage of.) since phant A.I. Is pretty dumb.

I’ve done things like getting them all together and breaking them all at the same time, or running away ooc to kill his phants then come back and get a lead.

But if your in a serious game you can’t really fight one on point and do well unless you have a strong enough attack that you can spam to kill all his phants as they pop or can keep consistent LoS, also blind works too.

Really though don’t worry about it. It’s silly to have builds like this is a supposed skill based game but sucking in team fights is a semi valid draw back.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

The Phantasm Mesmers I face have minimal or no condition removal at all, which is why I am so surprised: I’d like to think I’m not that hopeless.

If I had to “justify” it I’d say it’s because of the Mesmer’s inherent evasiveness compounded with Mesmer Condition’s very slow ramp-up, which allows their Phantasms to kill you before you kill them with conditions. The same slow ramp-up also makes killing low HP but relatively spammable Phantasms highly inefficient.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

dodging the unload from stealth is pretty easy if you’re experienced fighting p/d thieves. they dont do much direct damage, since they’re built for high condition damage.

live long enough to summon 3 phantasms, and as soon as the thief unstealths to attack, he gets hit by 10k damage.

use arcane thievery/mimic/disenchanter against p/d thieves.

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

That P/D thief has investment in acrobatics, all he needs to do is dodge your phantasm volleys and he can stall again. He’ll use withdraw and have vigor on top of it all — it’s a 15 sec heal+ his cnd on a phantasm is a lot of healing, and he can put on a crapload of boons on himself (arcane thievery steals only 3 boons).

Gaidax.7835:

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

This is PvP we’re talking about here right? You guys all make it sound like Phantasm attacks are not predicatable and easy to dodge/LoS because you know, they are NPCs after all. Also FYI iDuelist attacks are not 100% projectile finishers (it is 20%), so unless you hit the RNG jackpot you are not getting 15 stacks of confusion on anybody. Let’s have less theorycraft and more actual game experience shall we?

The fact of the matter is Phantasm Mesmer’s strength lies in smallish skirmishes, in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 size fights, where the fight is just hectic enough that you lose track of the Phantasms while at the same time you team doesn’t quite have enough AoE to destroy all the Phantasms quickly. IMO any strong sustain build could likely outlast Phantasm Mesmers in 1vs1s.

Skyro.3108:

Gaidax.7835:

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

This is PvP we’re talking about here right? You guys all make it sound like Phantasm attacks are not predicatable and easy to dodge/LoS because you know, they are NPCs after all. Also FYI iDuelist attacks are not 100% projectile finishers (it is 20%), so unless you hit the RNG jackpot you are not getting 15 stacks of confusion on anybody. Let’s have less theorycraft and more actual game experience shall we?

The fact of the matter is Phantasm Mesmer’s strength lies in smallish skirmishes, in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 size fights, where the fight is just hectic enough that you lose track of the Phantasms while at the same time you team doesn’t quite have enough AoE to destroy all the Phantasms quickly. IMO any strong sustain build could likely outlast Phantasm Mesmers in 1vs1s.

In case you did not know from your “actual game experience”, Duelist’s Discipline also turns Phantasmal Duelist attacks into 100% projectile finisher.

So much for your “actual game experience”, lol.

Gaidax.7835:

Skyro.3108:

Gaidax.7835:

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

This is PvP we’re talking about here right? You guys all make it sound like Phantasm attacks are not predicatable and easy to dodge/LoS because you know, they are NPCs after all. Also FYI iDuelist attacks are not 100% projectile finishers (it is 20%), so unless you hit the RNG jackpot you are not getting 15 stacks of confusion on anybody. Let’s have less theorycraft and more actual game experience shall we?

The fact of the matter is Phantasm Mesmer’s strength lies in smallish skirmishes, in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 size fights, where the fight is just hectic enough that you lose track of the Phantasms while at the same time you team doesn’t quite have enough AoE to destroy all the Phantasms quickly. IMO any strong sustain build could likely outlast Phantasm Mesmers in 1vs1s.

In case you did not know from your “actual game experience”, Duelist’s Discipline also turns Phantasmal Duelist attacks into 100% projectile finisher.

So much for your “actual game experience”, lol.

Haha touche. Although the general point still stands on what kind of terrible thief would allow double iDuelist to open on him when he pops out of stealth while sitting in a Null Field.

Gaidax.7835:

Skyro.3108:

Gaidax.7835:

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

This is PvP we’re talking about here right? You guys all make it sound like Phantasm attacks are not predicatable and easy to dodge/LoS because you know, they are NPCs after all. Also FYI iDuelist attacks are not 100% projectile finishers (it is 20%), so unless you hit the RNG jackpot you are not getting 15 stacks of confusion on anybody. Let’s have less theorycraft and more actual game experience shall we?

The fact of the matter is Phantasm Mesmer’s strength lies in smallish skirmishes, in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 size fights, where the fight is just hectic enough that you lose track of the Phantasms while at the same time you team doesn’t quite have enough AoE to destroy all the Phantasms quickly. IMO any strong sustain build could likely outlast Phantasm Mesmers in 1vs1s.

In case you did not know from your “actual game experience”, Duelist’s Discipline also turns Phantasmal Duelist attacks into 100% projectile finisher.

So much for your “actual game experience”, lol.

My god does it really? Whelp, i’ve officially found my new favorite trait…

Durzlla.6295:

Gaidax.7835:

Skyro.3108:

Gaidax.7835:

Zenith.7301:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The only counter to a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 is another phantasm Mesmer.

Since you’re assuming a 1v1 scenario, that allows for specific counter utilities. If I’m going against a condition heavy class, I will take the heal mantra for rapid condition removal through mender’s purity as well as the condition removal mantra. Between the 2 of those, you can remove about 8 conditions every 20 seconds, which is far more than enough to deal with any condition class.

Other classes and builds have different counters. I will change my utilities to suit each individual 1v1. There is no counter to a phantasm Mesmer with utilities set up for your class. If you catch the Mesmer with poorly set up utilities, you have a chance, although the build is still immensely powerful.

So how do you kill P/D thieves that are getting free cnd heals and resets off your illusions?

With P/D thieves it’s not just their conditions — it’s the mini unload from stealth opener they can chain while using basilisk to stun to land the cnd with steal.

Stall them with your own stealth, dodging and ports… At some point soon you will have 2 duelists up – the moment thief unstealths he eats 8k burst and 10+ stacks of bleed, while you are just sitting invulnerable in Blurred Frenzy and the best part is that he won’t avoid it by cc’ing the Mesmer.

Thieves’ strength is also their big weakness really. They attack and then they NEED to go to stealth for a couple of seconds to recover. While they stealth around, phantasms just get their attack cd back up and the moment he appears to attack they just instantly unload on him everything they have.

If you time it right with Null Field, he will also get 15 stacks of confusion too

This is PvP we’re talking about here right? You guys all make it sound like Phantasm attacks are not predicatable and easy to dodge/LoS because you know, they are NPCs after all. Also FYI iDuelist attacks are not 100% projectile finishers (it is 20%), so unless you hit the RNG jackpot you are not getting 15 stacks of confusion on anybody. Let’s have less theorycraft and more actual game experience shall we?

The fact of the matter is Phantasm Mesmer’s strength lies in smallish skirmishes, in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 size fights, where the fight is just hectic enough that you lose track of the Phantasms while at the same time you team doesn’t quite have enough AoE to destroy all the Phantasms quickly. IMO any strong sustain build could likely outlast Phantasm Mesmers in 1vs1s.

In case you did not know from your “actual game experience”, Duelist’s Discipline also turns Phantasmal Duelist attacks into 100% projectile finisher.

So much for your “actual game experience”, lol.

My god does it really? Whelp, i’ve officially found my new favorite trait…

Yup, I think it is a bug (although it is like this forever already), but heck it’s good to have a positive bug for a change

Every out of 8 shots in a volley are full 100% projectile finishers. So basically you land 8 projectile finishers in 2 seconds from one duelist (if you got the trait, that is, which you should).

Top 1v1 builds and their best counters:

1: Beastmaster Ranger -> Shatter Mesmer

2: Phantasmal Mesmer -> Terrormancer

3: Minionmancer -> Trap Ranger

4: D/D Burst Ele -> HGH Engineer/Wellmancer

5: Stealth Thief -> Trap Ranger/Minionmancer

My favorite part of these threads is the x,y,z can beat this class “if played well.” I have no clue what the best 1 v 1 class is. I have a sneaky suspicion its either BM ranger or Phantasm Mesmer but there almost certainly is a class/build that at equal skill levels will beat all other classes the majority of the time. It’s just the likeliest out come. To believe they somehow balanced 3-4 classes to be equally good 1v1 is ludicrous. Nobody cares if some boob Phantasm Mesmer can be beaten by a skillful engineer. There are classes that dominate 1v1 why do we have to qualify everything. Classes with strong pets will always be extremely powerful in a 1v1 setting its basically a pvp MMORPG truism.

Well, thanks for telling me. I will now know how much frustration I can get into hotjoins.

Well, it wasn’ta big surprise: you could already see 30% of mesmers in every hotjoin match.XD

And about the “you can dodge” argument: by dodging you take time, that means you can land even less pressure on the mesmer, just procrastinating your end: while you dodge, you ar not attacking and his defensive cooldowns tick.

I don’t know if those should be nerfed, but I think it’s nice to let new players know what are the strongest parts on every build. Even just for not making them frustrated for losing against a 1v1 build while playing a non 1v1 build.

To those who say ‘just dodge them’, you can only dodge so much. Against a p/d thief, I’ll get 2 swordsmen and a duelist up eventually. Using heal mantra and cd removal mantra allows me to tank the unload then instantly remove all the conditions.

The thing about that unload is that it’s channeled. The thief has a choice: do the full channel, or dodge the phantasms. You can’t pick both. The swordsmen will both attack instantly and do about 5-6.5k damage each, with the duelist following with another 4k damage and 6 or 7 bleeds. Not dodging is a death sentence, and dodging means you fail your attack…with both swordsmen attacking a second time 3.5 seconds later, before you can restealth.