Pistol whip is unable to hold a target
My prediction for next patch nerf, devourer venom is now 1s immo per charge.
Think about it, it could result in yet another potential s/p nerf on top of “fixing” the immo spam, they won’t be able to resist the temptation.
(edited by Puru.4217)
My prediction for next patch nerf, devourer venom is now 1s immo per charge.
Think about it, it could result in yet another potential s/p nerf on top of “fixing” the immo spam, they won’t be able to resist the tentation.
Better yet, thieves can only stealth when no one is around them in a 180 radius.
Master of all Professions
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U can rez people now! Enter support thief, aka ninja nurse!
LOL
Can we please get a REDPOST here?
appreciated. what about that “1.5s too op” he was talking about?
Pistol whip was a 1 second stun yesterday. If we set it back to 1 second then “Rune of the Mesmer” which increases daze and stun duration 33% will turn Pistol whip to a 1.5 second stun. Which may or may not be too much.
This is the old animation of Pistol whip which is about 2.5 seconds.
It takes ~.5 seconds from the start to stun a target.
Takes ~ 1.1 seconds from the start for your animation frames to start this is the same length of time you have to interrupt quite a most healing skills.
So if we look. .5s to stun, and then you get 1s of stun, so 1.5s into the animation the person you attack is still stunned. Your attack starts at 1.1 seconds so they are free 1 second before you complete the animation.We had a patch to speed up the time before sword wings, I don’t have any speed information on this. The .5 second start is the same, lets go on a limb and say now evade frames start .8 seconds into it. With a 1 second stun they’ll be free .7s into the animation. If this stun was 1.5s, they’d be free .2s into the animation, basically they would eat the entire pistol whip.
Hence if PW duration = 1s then rune of mesmer multiples that 1.33x to 1.5 = Full PW damage.
Right now if we consider the attack starts at .8s, then with kitten stun there is 1.2s left of animation time. So basically right now when you look at animation time, your opponent is actually free earlier than the original Pistol whip which had trouble getting damage without haste and now haste is 50% weaker.
So what you’re left with is a pistol whip with less guaranteed damage, without haste to try and reduce that.
If you put it to 1 second you get a Pistol whip that can be completely self-reliant when runed for and is really powerful for taking someone out of the game.Solution are to
a) Speed Pistol whip up even further
i) removing the time between the stun and the sword slashes completely
ii) speeding up the sword whips
iii) speeding up the entire thingb) put the stun to 0.8 seconds rounding up to 1 second, this wont give any extra time with SoP or decrease the vulnerability frames of PW but will round to 1.25s with rune of the mesmer.
another solution:
removing all +stun or daze durationthings and set the duration of the skills to needed amount of time to get a % of dmg before a stunbreaker is needed to use.
lets face it, a stun/daze/knockdown… should be a interrupt or a start of a dmg combo to prevent using of defensive utilities and not the only requirement to fullfill the combo.
Can we please get a REDPOST here?
Seconded.
Anyway, S/P is fine for the OP venom share, since you just have it for BP and Inf strike.
Just enter the venom share legion and start spamming teams with 6 secs immobilize- 3 secs stun- 3k venom leeaching per ally.
Can we please get a REDPOST here?
Anyway, S/P is fine for the OP venom share, since you just have it for BP and Inf strike.
Just enter the venom share legion and start spamming teams with 6 secs immobilize- 3 secs stun- 3k venom leeaching per ally.
Doubtful. I’ve occasionally run Dev venom both in share and out of share to secure attacks for PW and flanking strike as well as peel for allies.
The amount of immobilize I was able to lock down an individual person myself for was 12+ seconds if not cleaned in those specs. With the cleansing mattering less, because not every immobilize was fired all at once. You could surprise shot, chocking gas, switch to sword, steal + slash, inf strike, dev venom, slash, slice, pistol whip, black powder, surprise shot and at any time a cleanse occurred you just threw back more immobilize. Without a care in the world an epidemic necro would have a field day, especially when shared since you could go in rotation and keep a perma immo chain assuming you didn’t waste it and even now if you “waste it” it’ll get cleared. A rangers Entangle should be stacking immobilize as well now but it’ll likely be handled just fine by most players.
The change to immobilize stacking means that you are punished less for “wasting” immobilize but it doesn’t change the reality that if you are throwing all your immobilize, then a simple clear can remove all of this effort without you having additional options. If you are doing this as S/P, This is only magnified. Your stun doesn’t last as long for instance, as a ranger I can take the stun and immediately serpent’s strike within the immobilize without taking any sword swing. While wasting both remaining 2 charges of Dev venom. If you do this without Pistol whip, of course I have to react, but then you are again left with the same situation as before. Do you “waste” your immobilize and let it be simplistically cleared if they have the ability to do so, or do you sit on your charges momentarily so that you can chain it, decreasing your individual offensive output to secure your teammates.
I don’t see immobilize stacking as a heavy threat (currently, subject to change) nor would I ever advocate that the current state of S/P is at all acceptable because of it.
If you take P/P for instance you can share to your heart extent, bring all the /P utility of S/P, and have Unload as a ranged pressure/burst skill. It feels weird to be advocating P/P, but with the current situation I do feel it can perform the offensive support role more adequately than S/P at this present moment in time. I’d also say P/D and S/D bring a better rounded experience now, but it’s up to players to try that themselves.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
Can we please get a REDPOST here?
Anyway, S/P is fine for the OP venom share, since you just have it for BP and Inf strike.
Just enter the venom share legion and start spamming teams with 6 secs immobilize- 3 secs stun- 3k venom leeaching per ally.
Doubtful. I’ve occasionally run Dev venom both in share and out of share to secure attacks for PW and flanking strike as well as peel for allies.
The amount of immobilize I was able to lock down an individual person myself for was 12+ seconds if not cleaned in those specs. With the cleansing mattering less, because not every immobilize was fired all at once. You could surprise shot, chocking gas, switch to sword, steal + slash, inf strike, dev venom, slash, slice, pistol whip, black powder, surprise shot and at any time a cleanse occurred you just threw back more immobilize. Without a care in the world an epidemic necro would have a field day, especially when shared since you could go in rotation and keep a perma immo chain assuming you didn’t waste it and even now if you “waste it” it’ll get cleared. A rangers Entangle should be stacking immobilize as well now but it’ll likely be handled just fine by most players.The change to immobilize stacking means that you are punished less for “wasting” immobilize but it doesn’t change the reality that if you are throwing all your immobilize, then a simple clear can remove all of this effort without you having additional options. If you are doing this as S/P, This is only magnified. Your stun doesn’t last as long for instance, as a ranger I can take the stun and immediately serpent’s strike within the immobilize without taking any sword swing. While wasting both remaining 2 charges of Dev venom. If you do this without Pistol whip, of course I have to react, but then you are again left with the same situation as before. Do you “waste” your immobilize and let it be simplistically cleared if they have the ability to do so, or do you sit on your charges momentarily so that you can chain it, decreasing your individual offensive output to secure your teammates.
I don’t see immobilize stacking as a heavy threat (currently, subject to change) nor would I ever advocate that the current state of S/P is at all acceptable because of it.
If you take P/P for instance you can share to your heart extent, bring all the /P utility of S/P, and have Unload as a ranged pressure/burst skill. It feels weird to be advocating P/P, but with the current situation I do feel it can perform the offensive support role more adequately than S/P at this present moment in time. I’d also say P/D and S/D bring a better rounded experience now, but it’s up to players to try that themselves.
The issue of venom share thieves is that they’re too squishy ( no stunbreak).
You need Sword in order to avoid the stunbreak need. /P is the best thing we have.
Inf strike moreover allows you to jump in the fight, venom share, port back, basically being always in range with you rteammates.
You can’t be focused thanks to sword, if you’re focused you have PW evades and BP.
S/P may suck as a damage set now ( and this is definitely wrong and needs to be fixed) but still is the best suited set for venom share, and now venom share is OP as kitten.
However you can also take S/D, have the same inf strike, have an immediate evade on Flanking strike, relative to PW’s evade which has about a 0.8~1s activation time (somewhere between that) and bring some boon strip/steal as well which if you are taking soldiers can add well to your bulk. You’ll lose BP and headshots interrupt but can stealth to lose target (no more ranger 111111 spam), and have a 1.5s tactical strike which is 3x the shutdown length of PW and what 6 times as much as headshot now (not that headshot is meant for lasting shutdown). Dancing dagger as slow as it is, can also serve as a “aoe” applicant of venoms. Meanwhile your damage is now certainly more reliable while I disagreed with you in our past argument, it certainly is true now. With PW at best offering you cleave damage that has lot quite a bit of practicality.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
However you can also take S/D, have the same inf strike, have an immediate evade on Flanking strike, relative to PW’s evade which has about a 0.8~1s activation time (somewhere between that) and bring some boon strip/steal as well which if you are taking soldiers can add well to your bulk. You’ll lose BP and headshots interrupt but can stealth to lose target (no more ranger 111111 spam), and have a 1.5s tactical strike which is 3x the shutdown length of PW and what 6 times as much as headshot now (not that headshot is meant for lasting shutdown). Dancing dagger as slow as it is, can also serve as a “aoe” applicant of venoms. Meanwhile your damage is now certainly more reliable while I disagreed with you in our past argument, it certainly is true now. With PW at best offering you cleave damage that has lot quite a bit of practicality.
But i agree that S/D can be more relaible.
The point is that BP offers more than the whole FS-LS +stealth.
Inf strike is all you need to stop the enemy from focusing you.
And PW allows for more sustain in teamfights with less ini ratio ( more evade frames per ini spent when compared to FS-LS).
Again, your role is not to damage, but simply to be able to stay in the fight and support.
S/P is, altough broken, more suited for this role.
i’m not claiming S/P is fine ( certainly it isn’t) but if you think that you do not have to deal damage with a venom share build, you can do it.
I’m currently running 30-0-30-0-10 stealth rezzer venom share on soldier ammo.
I believe it’s broken OP and i’m serious.
Im not saying to do damage, im saying you bring additional utility via the boon strip with S/D relative to PW’s “blink and you’ll miss it” stun. At the same time with more practical utility on it’s dual skill, S/D can get more damage out of it now that PW has to pray to jesus that someone doesn’t dodge the first flipping hit of the sword swing.
evade per ini is not relevant here. The activation time. The wind up for your stun itself is the same as CND, your vulnerability frames extend past this, you are quite interruptible, which means PW as an evade can be denied where Flanking strike will not be. This isn’t to kitten on PW’s evades, but they’re difficult to utilize specifically for the purpose of mitigating damage because they take long to come out, they are more feasible to protect you once you have isolated one member of the team from counterattack, but as a straight defense, concussion shot, denied.
All burst got buffed with immob stacking.
Eventually people will see that once they stop whining about stupid crap
thief
20/0/30/20/0 cleric-soldier amul, lyssa
ahahahaha
joking.
thief so good
appreciated. what about that “1.5s too op” he was talking about?
Pistol whip was a 1 second stun yesterday. If we set it back to 1 second then “Rune of the Mesmer” which increases daze and stun duration 33% will turn Pistol whip to a 1.5 second stun. Which may or may not be too much.
Rune of the mesmer only affected daze afaik. I tested paralyzation and rune of mesmer on golems with mesmer pistol 5, their stun signet and diversion. Paralyzation affected daze and stun, rune of the mesmer only affected daze but both increased durations by 1 second. Now the duration increase is unnoticeable if it even exists.
EDIT: If OP and other S/P users want to keep target then run immobilize venom…even if the opponent breaks stun they’ll have to burn condi removal too or you’ll keep stunning them.
Im not saying to do damage, im saying you bring additional utility via the boon strip with S/D relative to PW’s “blink and you’ll miss it” stun. At the same time with more practical utility on it’s dual skill, S/D can get more damage out of it now that PW has to pray to jesus that someone doesn’t dodge the first flipping hit of the sword swing.
evade per ini is not relevant here. The activation time. The wind up for your stun itself is the same as CND, your vulnerability frames extend past this, you are quite interruptible, which means PW as an evade can be denied where Flanking strike will not be. This isn’t to kitten on PW’s evades, but they’re difficult to utilize specifically for the purpose of mitigating damage because they take long to come out, they are more feasible to protect you once you have isolated one member of the team from counterattack, but as a straight defense, concussion shot, denied.
after testing it, i can say S/D rocks with venom share
You’re even able to deal very good damage.
I was seriously overvaluating S/P, it really, REALLY sux now.
I’m doing well with d/p s/d venomshare as well since patch.
The whole SA line calls for stealth, so if you don’t run d/p or s/d, you’re gimping yourself. s/p should be ok once they fix the stun duration, but honestly you still don’t get the many benefits from stealth…
Undercoverism [UC]
after testing it, i can say S/D rocks with venom share
You’re even able to deal very good damage.
I was seriously overvaluating S/P, it really, REALLY sux now.[/quote]
I wouldn’t try to lead you astray, much as I love S/P.
Amaterasu, I was thinking P/D would also be effective. If I recall D/P + P/D venom share with thieves guild used to be run late beta and early launch. Might be the time for it to reappear.
I’m doing well with d/p s/d venomshare as well since patch.
The whole SA line calls for stealth, so if you don’t run d/p or s/d, you’re gimping yourself. s/p should be ok once they fix the stun duration, but honestly you still don’t get the many benefits from stealth…
I’ve found D/P to be too squishy, and since you have no stunbreaker ( as i pretty much believe every venom share thief is running refuge-spider-devourer-basilisk), S/D with its shadow return is perfect.
I’ve been currently able to lock down SOLO a target for more than 15 secs.
I would personally run shortbow for mobility and multibounce leeching venom.
after testing it, i can say S/D rocks with venom share
You’re even able to deal very good damage.
I was seriously overvaluating S/P, it really, REALLY sux now.
I wouldn’t try to lead you astray, much as I love S/P.
Amaterasu, I was thinking P/D would also be effective. If I recall D/P + P/D venom share with thieves guild used to be run late beta and early launch. Might be the time for it to reappear.
[/quote]
Yup, that could work too, however p/d and d/p as a set are almost complete opposites. p/d calls for condi dmg and d/p calls for direct dmg…to have a hybrid of both probably wouldn’t be that effective.
I tried p/d already, but it just wasn’t doing enough damage via condi dmg, not to mention it’s impossible to chase anyone down with it. Spamming pistol #1 is possibly the most uneventful thing in this game…it’s slow and it tickles…forget the new pistol #2, it won’t help you catch anyone and certainly not worth the 4 ini. Also the typical venomshare build is 30/0/30/0/10, and since we’re not going into acrobatics nor trickery…it doesn’t really help a condi based build.
I wish our traitlines vs their bonuses would get a revamp…venomshare imo should be a grandmaster trait in deadly arts.
Undercoverism [UC]
(edited by Amaterasu.6280)
I’m doing well with d/p s/d venomshare as well since patch.
The whole SA line calls for stealth, so if you don’t run d/p or s/d, you’re gimping yourself. s/p should be ok once they fix the stun duration, but honestly you still don’t get the many benefits from stealth…
I’ve found D/P to be too squishy, and since you have no stunbreaker ( as i pretty much believe every venom share thief is running refuge-spider-devourer-basilisk), S/D with its shadow return is perfect.
I’ve been currently able to lock down SOLO a target for more than 15 secs.
I would personally run shortbow for mobility and multibounce leeching venom.
Tried s/d + sb, d/p + sb. I liked both, but I think I’m just more used to d/p since that’s what I play mainly. Just a matter of playstyle I guess. I didn’t find d/p squishy in all honesty and I play with berserker’s. Playing with soldier’s is rather boring for me..I like having high damage…nothing bugs me more than chasing someone down and not having enough damage to put them down.
Though logically, s/d would be more safe for sure. I’m going to keep trying both weapon sets.
Undercoverism [UC]
I’m doing well with d/p s/d venomshare as well since patch.
The whole SA line calls for stealth, so if you don’t run d/p or s/d, you’re gimping yourself. s/p should be ok once they fix the stun duration, but honestly you still don’t get the many benefits from stealth…
I’ve found D/P to be too squishy, and since you have no stunbreaker ( as i pretty much believe every venom share thief is running refuge-spider-devourer-basilisk), S/D with its shadow return is perfect.
I’ve been currently able to lock down SOLO a target for more than 15 secs.
I would personally run shortbow for mobility and multibounce leeching venom.
Tried s/d + sb, d/p + sb. I liked both, but I think I’m just more used to d/p since that’s what I play mainly. Just a matter of playstyle I guess. I didn’t find d/p squishy in all honesty and I play with berserker’s. Playing with soldier’s is rather boring for me..I like having high damage…nothing bugs me more than chasing someone down and not having enough damage to put them down.
Though logically, s/d would be more safe for sure. I’m going to keep trying both weapon sets.
It was simply due to dagger base damage being so bad withou crit damage scaling.
Sword damage is higher and you can do nice damage even with no crit damage at all and i’m pretty sure it’s higher than dagger damage.
I’m currently running 30-0-30-10-0 with barbarian and ogre ( this one is huge, rock dog with venom share OP) with 10 in acro for the extra speed in stealth.
You should try it out.