Guild Wars 2

Mufa.1326:

I do not know again how this bad of a design could find its way into the game.

I know that for some people it is a non-issue since they do their dmg in aoe manner or generally do not care if they are hitting from the back, front or side.

However, if you have to consistently land backstabs on something that looks like a little speck and is moving and you have no idea which way it is facing and you cannot even see when it is dodge rolling…..it really makes it much much much harder than playing against other models.

Players should not be getting huge advantage relative to others just due to the model choice.

So your backstab lands for 3.5k instead of 7k? Poor you. Sorry that’s just a ridiculous thing to ask for. And there are several asura thieves running around for just that reason. :P

Ridiculous? So you think that:
1. It is fair to handicap backstab builds or any build that gets extra dmg from positioning itself just by choice of the model? So how about then they account for that assuming everyone will be taking small asuras and bump up our dmg then?
2. asura models should have significant advantage over other models in pvp?

I think you are ridiculous. And it is not just 50% difference it is about 75% difference if you hit from front or back.

Mufa.1326:

Ridiculous? So you think that:
1. It is fair to handicap backstab builds or any build that gets extra dmg from positioning itself just by choice of the model? So how about then they account for that assuming everyone will be taking small asuras and bump up our dmg then?
2. asura models should have significant advantage over other models in pvp?

I think you are ridiculous. And it is not just 50% difference it is about 75% difference if you hit from front or back.

So in short because it is a little bit harder for you to land your steal+cnd+bs combo an entire race should be banned from PvP. So sad that one type doesn’t make your play style easy mode. Sorry but this won’t happen. This demand is Racist. :P

I actually agree with this post. It’s far harder for me to spot and daze the heals of my opponent when they’re asuran when compared to let’s say human. Animations are far harder to spot and it’s easier for things to become a mess.

All I can say is; good luck dazing heals (or doing any other form of reactionary forms of skilled play) on temple of the silent storm gate in a teamfight with all the opponents being asuras. It’s a complete mess and makes it more worthwhile to spam your interupts when your opponent is relatively low instead of trying to react quickly to what they do.

Wanting it to happen and having it happen are two different things. I play on my asura only in Pvp. So do I have to change to a different race just for sPvP even though I wouldn’t change the class and it would take a space for a character that I would use elsewhere? What about others that play on Asuras. What change would you propose? We are automatically forced to be norn upon entering the mists? That would be quite the nightmare to create the programming for. Or should all players in PvP be one race only since the race in pvp is generally cosmetic because we don’t have our racial abilities? I mean everyone already wants us to be one class going around auto attacking because in class diversity is auto-OP. So how do you propose eliminating the Asura race from PvP? And what would you do to appease the population of players that Asura? Please have a rational replacement that would be implement otherwise stating a problem without trying to give a solution is sad.

Oni.5429:

I actually agree with this post. It’s far harder for me to spot and daze the heals of my opponent when they’re asuran when compared to let’s say human. Animations are far harder to spot and it’s easier for things to become a mess.

All I can say is; good luck dazing heals (or doing any other form of reactionary forms of skilled play) on temple of the silent storm gate in a teamfight with all the opponents being asuras. It’s a complete mess and makes it more worthwhile to spam your interupts when your opponent is relatively low instead of trying to react quickly to what they do.

+1

I recently gave up and just run an asura now. I noticed how much easier it was. People cant react as much to all my play because they cant see it at all when there is a fight because of all the mesmers/ele aoe going on even in 1 on 1s.

jportell.2197:

Wanting it to happen and having it happen are two different things. I play on my asura only in Pvp. So do I have to change to a different race just for sPvP even though I wouldn’t change the class and it would take a space for a character that I would use elsewhere? What about others that play on Asuras. What change would you propose? We are automatically forced to be norn upon entering the mists? That would be quite the nightmare to create the programming for. Or should all players in PvP be one race only since the race in pvp is generally cosmetic because we don’t have our racial abilities? I mean everyone already wants us to be one class going around auto attacking because in class diversity is auto-OP. So how do you propose eliminating the Asura race from PvP? And what would you do to appease the population of players that Asura? Please have a rational replacement that would be implement otherwise stating a problem without trying to give a solution is sad.

No but asura should be bigger in spvp.

That bridge has been crossed.

But Asura were a mistake if GW2 had any aspirations of being considered an eSport.

Agree.

Some people were saying this even before the game was released.

Now the bridge is crossed: let the QQ begins.

I agree that the Asura have an advantage in spvp based on race. They are notably smaller than all the other races, which as the OP says makes it more difficult to read their animations and see which way they are facing.

I also find it difficult to tell them apart, because again the smaller size makes it harder to see detail that would distinguish them. This is especially true for fast moving or stealth based classes. That makes a difference in spvp because if there are 2 or more of one class but say with different builds (or if stealthing in and out/cloning) it becomes much more difficult to keep on target.

Unlikely that they will be banned, (funny thought though!) and the advantage is much less than say in a game like Tera where smaller races have longer reach and smaller hitboxes than bigger races. Nevertheless it is kind of sad that an unfair advantage due to race does exist in an otherwise extremely level playing field.

A bigger asura in PvP would be funny and I don’t think I would be against that.

jportell.2197:

A bigger asura in PvP would be funny and I don’t think I would be against that.

They could give it some lore by saying “Asura decided to undergo exsperimental tests on themselves in the mists so that they are of an increased size to strike fear into their opponents”…or something

Lordrosicky.5813:

jportell.2197:

A bigger asura in PvP would be funny and I don’t think I would be against that.

They could give it some lore by saying “Asura decided to undergo exsperimental tests on themselves in the mists so that they are of an increased size to strike fear into their opponents”…or something

Well its better than banning one of the more popular races from PvP entirely.

This just in from ArenaNet, from now on all character models are changed to male humans regardless of their original race or gender when they enter SPvP, because the devs wanted people’s characters to better reflect them in real life.

Westwater.1095:

This just in from ArenaNet, from now on all character models are changed to male humans regardless of their original race or gender when they enter SPvP, because the devs wanted people’s characters to better reflect them in real life.

LOLOLOL…. What about people that play with their GF? Heard it on Team Speak… It was actually quite sickening haha. :P

Yea. for sure. asuras are OP, been saying this since day one.

Stupid op race :/ Make Asuras 45% bigger. human sized.

They are unlikely going to ban a whole race from PvP. That’s not going to happen for sure. However, it is certainly clear that asuras have advantage over other races, because of animation readability, which is obviously extremely important. I kind of rage whenever asura thief uses cnd+steal, and I can’t see the animation of cnd, so basically, there is no way I’m going to avoid initial burst, just because of how low readability of asura’s animation is.

This is going to be progressively larger problem, as soon as what’s left of PvP community realizes how important hiding your animations is. The only way, or at least the only reasonable way, how I see it, is implementing visible cast bars, which has been proposed much earlier, even during beta weekends. It wouldn’t really dumb the game down, it would just solve visual clue problems, which are currently present in PvP.

People often say that there is a very clear disconnect between video games and reality, especially when it comes to scenarios that “make sense in real life.” Yet time and time again the stunty races are always harder to target, harder to see animations on, etc, “because they’re smaller, it makes sense.”

Just make their hitboxes the same size, making them just as easy to target as a big fat norn, and give us enemy cast bars.

1 word. Tab.

You really still click to find your target? I actually think Asurans are funny to kill in spvp (I mean defeat, ehherm..). Specially when you are smashing them^^ They may be a little annoying to deal with but I hardly find an issue with targeting them with backstabs or flanking strikes.

Although this post does remind me of good old Halo 3 days, Elites in Team BRs.. man that was annoying.

NinjaEd.3946:

1 word. Tab.

You really still click to find your target? I actually think Asurans are funny to kill in spvp (I mean defeat, ehherm..). Specially when you are smashing them^^

Although this post does remind me of good old Halo 3 days, Elites in Team BRs.. man that was annoying.

In a large groups you might need several tabs to get the target you want and those short period of time can be crucial. Sometimes its better to target with your mouse.

True, but here is one piece of advice, if you’re melee. Aim your camera a little down so only (or mainly) the target is visible, then tab. Tab only goes to what is on your screen, so if you block everyone else out it still works well. In a bar fight of chaos well I wouldn’t want to melee unless your really good at surviving, so would usually be best to switch to range for a bit or focus a weaker guy and find an alternate route to them. In spvp it can be a little hectic to target the right 1 with tab, but in tpvp there isn’t that many people so that open space should make for an easy tab or mouse click.

Is it really that much of a big deal? Before I read this post, I don’t think I’ve ever said to myself, “Oh crap, that midget got away because I didn’t target him properly.” or, “Shoot, he/she is so small I didn’t see that back breaker coming.”

1. jportell.2197 : I do not understand how can someone only see his own benefit (you run asura) and not that of the game? This is VERY detrimental to the success of the game. If we all start running smallest asuras, that will severely decrease skill relevance in the game since you cannot recognize animations.
2. ppl are talking about ‘banning’ the race. Noone would be banned, I think they should just turn asuras automatically to humans (or race of player’s choice) when they step into spvp. Noone gets banned, you just do not get unfair advantage in spvp.
3. NinjaED: It is not issue with ‘targeting’. You misunderstood my original post. Issue is to know which way they are facing so they can be properly back stabbed (into the back for much higher dmg instead of the front).

Mufa.1326:

1. jportell.2197 : I do not understand how can someone only see his own benefit (you run asura) and not that of the game? This is VERY detrimental to the success of the game. If we all start running smallest asuras, that will severely decrease skill relevance in the game since you cannot recognize animations.
2. ppl are talking about ‘banning’ the race. Noone would be banned, I think they should just turn asuras automatically to humans (or race of player’s choice) when they step into spvp. Noone gets banned, you just do not get unfair advantage in spvp.
3. NinjaED: It is not issue with ‘targeting’. You misunderstood my original post. Issue is to know which way they are facing so they can be properly back stabbed (into the back for much higher dmg instead of the front).

It seems like the only profession that really has a problem with it is thieves. And don’t you have basilisk venom that turns your target to stone? Seems pretty easy to just get behind your target after that. If you still refuse to use that then it is an L2P issue. And animation for things like CnD is really obvious no matter the race if a thief is strolling up to you and is VISIBLE then guess what a CnD is coming. And poor thieves have an issue landing a BS because someone is smaller HA. You want to talk about people seeing their own benefit? You are clearly posting with your own interests in mind hence the “I can’t 100% land a backstab because I can’t tell where the front is” statement that you OPENED the post with. My asura is the tallest you can make it and is almost as tall as the shortest human or sylvari.

Edit: Also another note. As far as I know thieves are the only ones that get any serious advantages in damage from positioning, except a shortbow attack on rangers that has an added C/C effect from the side. Beyond that only ONE class has to worry about positioning to be successful and have you thought that maybe these people began running the Asura as a counter to your 0.75 second instagib haste combo?

Mufa.1326:

Ridiculous? So you think that:
1. It is fair to handicap backstab builds or any build that gets extra dmg from positioning itself just by choice of the model? So how about then they account for that assuming everyone will be taking small asuras and bump up our dmg then?
2. asura models should have significant advantage over other models in pvp?

I think you are ridiculous. And it is not just 50% difference it is about 75% difference if you hit from front or back.

i think the fact that a backstab build based around killing players almost instantaneously is absolutely stupid

jportell.2197:

Mufa.1326:

1. jportell.2197 : I do not understand how can someone only see his own benefit (you run asura) and not that of the game? This is VERY detrimental to the success of the game. If we all start running smallest asuras, that will severely decrease skill relevance in the game since you cannot recognize animations.
2. ppl are talking about ‘banning’ the race. Noone would be banned, I think they should just turn asuras automatically to humans (or race of player’s choice) when they step into spvp. Noone gets banned, you just do not get unfair advantage in spvp.
3. NinjaED: It is not issue with ‘targeting’. You misunderstood my original post. Issue is to know which way they are facing so they can be properly back stabbed (into the back for much higher dmg instead of the front).

It seems like the only profession that really has a problem with it is thieves. And don’t you have basilisk venom that turns your target to stone? Seems pretty easy to just get behind your target after that. If you still refuse to use that then it is an L2P issue. And animation for things like CnD is really obvious no matter the race if a thief is strolling up to you and is VISIBLE then guess what a CnD is coming. And poor thieves have an issue landing a BS because someone is smaller HA. You want to talk about people seeing their own benefit? You are clearly posting with your own interests in mind hence the “I can’t 100% land a backstab because I can’t tell where the front is” statement that you OPENED the post with. My asura is the tallest you can make it and is almost as tall as the shortest human or sylvari.

Some clueless noob trolling on forums all day long telling me L2P. Funny.
Backstab thieves are put at the biggest disadvantage with this nonsense. However, every class will have issues with lack of animation recognition. It is stupid to largely neutralize skill of the enemy by making model so small his animations as well as direction he is facing are not recognizable.
I am posting ‘for my benefit’ and I do not hide it, but also clearly for the benefit of the game.
I think it is nonsensical to put positioning attack into the game but, at the same time, allow models that are so small and look like little balls that you cannot recognize which side is front and which is the back.
And I do not have basilisk and have no problem landing my backstabs on normal models. But with asura I simply cannot tell most of the time which direction they are facing. Other ppl complain they cannot recognize animations. How is that acceptable?

Mufa.1326:

jportell.2197:

Mufa.1326:

1. jportell.2197 : I do not understand how can someone only see his own benefit (you run asura) and not that of the game? This is VERY detrimental to the success of the game. If we all start running smallest asuras, that will severely decrease skill relevance in the game since you cannot recognize animations.
2. ppl are talking about ‘banning’ the race. Noone would be banned, I think they should just turn asuras automatically to humans (or race of player’s choice) when they step into spvp. Noone gets banned, you just do not get unfair advantage in spvp.
3. NinjaED: It is not issue with ‘targeting’. You misunderstood my original post. Issue is to know which way they are facing so they can be properly back stabbed (into the back for much higher dmg instead of the front).

It seems like the only profession that really has a problem with it is thieves. And don’t you have basilisk venom that turns your target to stone? Seems pretty easy to just get behind your target after that. If you still refuse to use that then it is an L2P issue. And animation for things like CnD is really obvious no matter the race if a thief is strolling up to you and is VISIBLE then guess what a CnD is coming. And poor thieves have an issue landing a BS because someone is smaller HA. You want to talk about people seeing their own benefit? You are clearly posting with your own interests in mind hence the “I can’t 100% land a backstab because I can’t tell where the front is” statement that you OPENED the post with. My asura is the tallest you can make it and is almost as tall as the shortest human or sylvari.

Some clueless noob trolling on forums all day long telling me L2P. Funny.
Backstab thieves are put at the biggest disadvantage with this nonsense. However, every class will have issues with lack of animation recognition. It is stupid to largely neutralize skill of the enemy by making model so small his animations as well as direction he is facing are not recognizable.
I am posting ‘for my benefit’ and I do not hide it, but also clearly for the benefit of the game.
I think it is nonsensical to put positioning attack into the game but, at the same time, allow models that are so small and look like little balls that you cannot recognize which side is front and which is the back.
And I do not have basilisk and have no problem landing my backstabs on normal models. But with asura I simply cannot tell most of the time which direction they are facing. Other ppl complain they cannot recognize animations. How is that acceptable?

Love the noob shot btw. Simply put the only thing they should do is make asura models largest when they enter sPvP if anything at all. And if people started running this as a counter to a cookie cutter thief BS combo then good for them. But most animations are really obvious in game (ele churning earth, any Mesmer phantasm summon and a thief prepping basilisk venom!) the size here does not matter because even on the tiny so tiny asuras you can still see the animation. And if you can’t then you need glasses!!!!

Making models large enough so there is no ambiguity about direction they face and animations they do is fine with me. I do not care if someone likes to look like kitten.

Ive noticed this in duels with guildies.
WE decided to test it out by dueling about 30 times. 30 times vs a human vs 30 times vs an asura. Same player same class, same spec. Its a little bit harder to beat an asura over a large sample size.

So, it really is an issue its not just in the ops head.

Are castbars out of the question? This would solve the animation problem.

I find teams that mix large norns and very small asuras are pretty effective. No, it’s not hard to click a target, but teamfights are very confusing if you literally lose sight of one opponent even for a split second.

That said, it is a relatively small issue. If Anet ever hosts a special cash prize tournament, they’ll probably want to limit players to a single race.

Should be a hitbox fix, not an actual size rendering fix. The MMO that shall not be named has made it just fine with tiny characters in their games, if hitbox is the same equally across races there should be no problem. The fact that it’s really only affecting thieves makes me even more glad I run Asura on all my characters. That being said, plenty of thieves seem to hit me just fine for BS. Can’t wait to hear that I beat someone because I’m too tiny…

I totally agree with this. Pretty sure the hitboxes are the same size already.
My bad experience with asura:
Was playing 1v1 with another bunker of less skill, even though I won I ended up getting knocked twice, watched my stream at the end and realised both times his banish animation was completely covered by another player’s skill animation. Meaning it was impossible for me to stop his knock simply due to the race he played. This is unfair, and I still don’t believe ANet can’t see why.
Not to mention Hundred Blade warriors, normally weak against our team, are really strong when people miss the animation from them being asura (in all the aoe animation for a stomp). Do I just have to roll a race I don’t want to play now simply because of this advantage?

Anybody who’s purely basing the counter argument that theres a small difference from winning 1v1’s obviously has no clue about teamfights, where a lot of their animations are just totally covered (or covered to the point that the skill is much harder to distinguish) and simply being an asura can give you a win.

Or they could just add cast bars…

Hanzo.9624:

Or they could just add cast bars…

Thank you!

They wont add cast bars, its against the No UI display philosophy of the game.

I think a small size boost to asuras in spvp would be a reasonable fix.

daydream.2938:

They wont add cast bars, its against the No UI display philosophy of the game.

I think a small size boost to asuras in spvp would be a reasonable fix.

No UI display? What?

Castbars makes much more sense than altering the already released player models.

They want ast little graphix on the screen as reasonable. So they would have display philosophy that would make using a cast bar undesirable for them.

I agree it would be a solution, but its not one Anet would like to see used. Even if they just put cast bars in for spvp.
So, buff asura size.
Also i think they want the skill curve of players being able to recognize animationz, which is dandy but asura animations are so much harder to see specially in team fights.

Hammerheart.1426:

No UI display? What?

Castbars makes much more sense than altering the already released player models.

The point is they WANT the game to be based on animations, so you look at the game, not the UI. Whether or not you personally like or want cast bars is irrelevant unless you work for Anet. I understand player feedback is important but it’s a core design choice they’ve made.

Just like having no race having an edge in pvp is a core design choice But I agree with OP. Asura are too small, especially with all the other spell effects. That very design choice that makes for fun gameplay (dodging/interrupting based on animations) is impossible in anything other than 1v1 with an Asura, sometimes even 1v1 can be rough depending on profession.

It has nothing to do with spotting them from a distance, that is a fine.

It has nothing to do with hitboxes, those are fine (as far as I can tell)

It has nothing to do with hiding behind terrain features.

It has everything to do with animation→reaction gameplay with a team fight situation. How can you react when you cannot see it?

I don’t really think it makes an Asura overpowered. I have played Asura since BWE1 and I fell in love with the race because it was so small. I have zero problems seeing an Asura, and backstabbing one.

The biggest problem i have with it is when i fight asura mesmer and in comes an almost identical asura thief or whatever, its very confusing because its much harder to distinguish between them as other races are…

It’s way easier to avoid damage from a Norn Warrior then it is an Asura Warrior. You can see the Norn’s attacks coming from a mile away, but it’s almost impossible to see what the Asura is doing unless you’ve actually played one. I’m sure this is true with all classes. How can you interrupt and dodge if you can’t even see what the heck they’re doing.

Who are these people saying they have zero problems backstabbing (properly?) asuras?
Are we talking constantly moving/turning target that is not stunned always repositioning and dodging?
Or are we talking noob level play where people stand for few seconds at the time and cast their stuff while static?
There is no freaking way that you have no problem even in 1v1, and in group fights it is laughable how bad things become.
If ANET wants the game ‘to be based on animations’, then they need to make them reasonably clear, and part of that is having large enough models (not just hitboxes).

Sure it sucks for thiefs who try and hit asuras from behind but thats a side issue here.

Its harder for everyone. Ever tried fighting a warrior norn? Easy to see bulls rush. Easy to see 100 blades. Easy to see everything. Not with a tiny asura though. Becomes hard.

Also an asura ele is a nightmare on a point because you cant see their animations behind all their crazy aoe like the ring of fire of the line of fire. They can almost be within these lol.

I went asura a few days back and my results instantly improved. Its a clear and exceptionally significant advantage. We arent talking about a small edge here. Its a huge edge in a game which is all about visual indications. You cant dodge illusionary leap from a asura mesmer because its impossible to see the animation for example.

They wont change this because this is a pve game but at the end of the day I would just advise everyone to run an asura and kind of give up on visual indications. They undermined their own design by allowing such tiny asuras.

Another significant advantage is the asura is smaller by alot so you can see more of other people on the screen. With a norn sometimes your own dude will cover up information like animations that you need to pick up on. This is again a huge advantage of running the smallest asura.

If you dont think its a HUGE advantage (worse than any gear gap almost) then I suggest you run the smallest asura and see for yourself. OR run the largest norn and see for yourself. I did have the largest norn but switched to asura and am probably 20% better purely down to this. It feels cheap and when everyone is asura the game is dumbed down , lame and favours classes which scan just spam dodge and can cantrip out of situations and heal to full even if they miss animations (i.e. ele)

Mufa.1326:

Who are these people saying they have zero problems backstabbing (properly?) asuras?
Are we talking constantly moving/turning target that is not stunned always repositioning and dodging?
Or are we talking noob level play where people stand for few seconds at the time and cast their stuff while static?
There is no freaking way that you have no problem even in 1v1, and in group fights it is laughable how bad things become.
If ANET wants the game ‘to be based on animations’, then they need to make them reasonably clear, and part of that is having large enough models (not just hitboxes).

Definitely never had an issue with an Asura, ever. Even played a human thief in to try it out to see if I would like it more (I didn’t) I think the people in here just have their own set of issues.

Also Basilisk Venom, stuns, Devourer Venom roots, they all work. If someone breaks the stun then its not an Asura problem anymore now is it?

Well, i have another question. Can i disable the voice from the Asura and Charr? I do not like and make me aggressive.

@ those saying the problem doesn’t merit removing an entire race:
yes, removing the race would be extreme. People should have the ability to play the character they started. But I offer a different scenario: what if everyone played only asura. This would be equally less fun in variety, and an even larger % of the population is being forced to play a race they didn’t want to.

Yes it is possible. Ive seen it in other games (DFO comes to mind) and it will happen in GW2. Once the population becomes aware of any advantage a certain race/sex has it is only a matter of time and everyone begins doing it. It adds to the game getting stale, but noone wants to play a competitive game at a disadvantage if they can help it.

I already have a separate slot taken up by an asura thief for when I do tournaments, where I have to put my actual thief on the shelf. And it makes me sad specially when I do eventually switch to my actual asura alt; takes all the fun away.

I think a solution would be to make an agreement with the pvp community that all players that create an asura for pvp should make it the biggest size possible, I think then it is easier to see their animations and where back and front is.

I know that there are ppl that level their asura chars to 80 in pve but I think that is the minority.

Arenanet will not change anything, because it is way too complicated to implement that and they have other priorities.