Guild Wars 2

Just curious to hear who gets the vote for weakest class post patch? My vote goes to….wait for it….WARRIOR!!!!

still warriors unless they find some new viable spec.

The answer is rather clear, and also one of the axioms of GW2.

Warriors are balanced. Other classes are not.

AoE is not balanced

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

AoE is not balanced

^^ what he said.

AoE and game mode are very detrimental to melee builds. The warrior’s strongest builds are close combat oriented just like thief’s, which is why these two classes can only be viable with great support, while range builds are more self sufficient.

Don’t forget pets, minions and clones blocking projectiles, and even melee attacks. They are like mobile meat shields, easy to rebuild, absorbing big amounts of damage.

Khenzy.9348:

samo.1054:

I strongly agree with exactly what Geff and Empathic Fighter said.

Warrior is actually how all classes in GW2 should be. No cheap moves, no cheap AoE, no 1 button miracles. Work for the kittening kill!! That’s how true e-sports should be like.

Tone down aoe, tone down stealths, illusions and all the crap that’s poluting the game, and we might just see some playable spvp then.

I so agree with this. I can’t +1 you enough.
PvP in this game has gotten out of control: blinds all over the place, free access to vigor, low CD on demand invulnerabilities/blocks/evades, etc.
The Warrior is the best designed profession, with well telegraphed skills that allow for counter play and require good positioning, offer a good measure of risk vs reward, they have to balance their traits to have good damage and/or good defense, their weapons have a clear and defined porpuse (ex. every Mesmer taking sword mh due to an OP invulnerability), so do their traits and utility skills.

The balance in this game has already gotten into the Whac-A-Mole way, sticking new stuff out of nowhere (Torment), overbuffing Necromancers, not tunning down certain things enough… instead of balancing what’s already there.

I agree on AoE damage, which has been a little too much for some time now, this includes Warriors as well.

This, this, this, over 9000 times this.

A-net please read THIS.

samo.1054:

I strongly agree with exactly what Geff and Empathic Fighter said.

Warrior is actually how all classes in GW2 should be. No cheap moves, no cheap AoE, no 1 button miracles. Work for the kittening kill!! That’s how true e-sports should be like.

Tone down aoe, tone down stealths, illusions and all the crap that’s poluting the game, and we might just see some playable spvp then.

+Infinity. Someone actually gets it.

To be honest. Warrior is totally design fail in pvp. (poor to cure condition, no roaming etc.)
Anet should redo the warrior design concept and make it more viable for pvp.

Nuoper.7503:

To be honest. Warrior is totally design fail in pvp. (poor to cure condition, no roaming etc.)
Anet should redo the warrior design concept and make it more viable for pvp.

The warrior is, besides the Guardian, actually the best designed class in this game. You clearly don’t understand why the Warrior has such a difficult state. That being said, the rest of the classes should be redesigned around the warrior, not vice versa.

I would say engineer , just to break cycle of warrior crybabies :p.

Nuoper.7503:

To be honest. Warrior is totally design fail in pvp. (poor to cure condition, no roaming etc.)
Anet should redo the warrior design concept and make it more viable for pvp.

thanks for not knowing what good pvp looks like, and helping to push the game further into unplayable chaos.
warriors are unviable because all other classes have over-the-top specs.
if you don’t understand why warrior is the way other classes should be balanced then i can’t help you

After watching the S/D thief duel video floating around, with all the tele spam, evade spam, blind spam, (nothing against thieves not personal) there is no way that warriors are from the same game.

Maybe if warriors had like 30k hp base I wouldnt mind the survivability of other classes so much.

Khenzy.9348:

samo.1054:

I strongly agree with exactly what Geff and Empathic Fighter said.

Warrior is actually how all classes in GW2 should be. No cheap moves, no cheap AoE, no 1 button miracles. Work for the kittening kill!! That’s how true e-sports should be like.

Tone down aoe, tone down stealths, illusions and all the crap that’s poluting the game, and we might just see some playable spvp then.

I so agree with this. I can’t +1 you enough.
PvP in this game has gotten out of control: blinds all over the place, free access to vigor, low CD on demand invulnerabilities/blocks/evades, etc.
The Warrior is the best designed profession, with well telegraphed skills that allow for counter play and require good positioning, offer a good measure of risk vs reward, they have to balance their traits to have good damage and/or good defense, their weapons have a clear and defined porpuse (ex. every Mesmer taking sword mh due to an OP invulnerability), so do their traits and utility skills.

The balance in this game has already gotten into the Whac-A-Mole way, sticking new stuff out of nowhere (Torment), overbuffing Necromancers, not tunning down certain things enough… instead of balancing what’s already there.

I agree on AoE damage, which has been a little too much for some time now, this includes Warriors as well.

The two quoted posts contain EXACTLY what ArenaNet developers must understand and fix. Thank you guys for pointing it out in such a perfect way.

AoE is not balanced.

Necros have the easiest AoE to pull off in game (huge unblockable marks).

I’m a diehard necro and I’m really saddened and disappointed with what Anet did in this patch. The DS/life force generation changes would be almost enough.

We need a quick change, before things get out of control (they kind of already are).

I’m also sympathetic to all rangers and warriors and engies who have to put up with all the fotm kids facerolling the necro after it got buffed. I’m with you guys on it.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Maybe if warriors had like 30k hp base I wouldnt mind the survivability of other classes so much.

hp base is high enough…more base does not give you more survivablity
more armor would!

Dagins.5163:

Don’t forget pets, minions and clones blocking projectiles, and even melee attacks. They are like mobile meat shields, easy to rebuild, absorbing big amounts of damage.

I certainly agree, specially from Mesmers, but also from Necromancers and other pet using professions/specs. Maybe these don’t represent the strongest specs of each class (debatable for some), but they require a higher degree of focus to fight against than with any other profession in the game (specially with Mesmers).

In the case of Mesmers, the ‘minion’ (clones/phantasms) or otherwise NPC AI spam clutters your screen, messes up with your click or tab target and the similarity of clones can make for a frustrating experience when doing a team comfrontation for example.

Due to the 5 cap on AoE, clones or pets often make use of that AoE cap acting as an incredibly effective mitigation source, far from their initial intended use (diversion=clones, damage, control=phantasms, pets, minions, etc.), they also block lots of proyectiles; I know of Mesmers that sit inside their illusions when the backstab is coming, and the illusion eating the backstab instead. Maybe that’s smart play, but I don’t think that’s an intended outcome.

Also, and very important as well, having several AI NPCs (illusions, minions, pets, whatever) in middle of a battle is definetly not spectator friendly. Reducing particle effects is not going to solve this.

samo.1054:

I strongly agree with exactly what Geff and Empathic Fighter said.

Warrior is actually how all classes in GW2 should be. No cheap moves, no cheap AoE, no 1 button miracles. Work for the kittening kill!! That’s how true e-sports should be like.

Tone down aoe, tone down stealths, illusions and all the crap that’s poluting the game, and we might just see some playable spvp then.

This is SO right on the money. It is almost like they designed the Warrior and Guardian and then outsourced the design of the other professions to the “B” team.

I really find it hard to believe all the professions were designed by the same team.

Thanks.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

samo.1054:

I strongly agree with exactly what Geff and Empathic Fighter said.

Warrior is actually how all classes in GW2 should be. No cheap moves, no cheap AoE, no 1 button miracles. Work for the kittening kill!! That’s how true e-sports should be like.

Tone down aoe, tone down stealths, illusions and all the crap that’s poluting the game, and we might just see some playable spvp then.

This is SO right on the money. It is almost like they designed the Warrior and Guardian and then outsourced the design of the other professions to the “B” team.

I really find it hard to believe all the professions were designed by the same team.

Thanks.

On the first day, DEVTEAM designed the warrior, and it was good.
On the second day, DEVTEAM decided warrior was OP, so they designed rest of the classes to be able to survive vs warrior.
By the end of the 7th day, DEVTEAM forgot that warrior existed.

Warriors need to find a new way to run Greatsword or just accept Rifles and Axes as the new meta.

I just no longer play PvP with my warrior, and recomend another warriors make the same.

Dirame.8521:

Warriors need to find a new way to run Greatsword or just accept Rifles and Axes as the new meta.

wat

You can’t run a melee DPS in the state the meta is in atm… too much AoE and condi spam. That stuff isn’t fun for anyone so why even promote it? Just cut it out and you don’t even need to buff warrior (much).

I just hate the way they’ve promoted the most cheesiest builds they could think of. Why did they think it would be fun to fight a highly mobile constantly healing boon popping bunkering ele? Why did they think it would be fun to fight rangers and their pets with constant prot & regen & huge evasion? Why did they think it would be fun to fight against evade spamming thieves? Why do they now think its fun to fight against AoE spam or condi overload? ITS JUST NOT FUN, and a million miles away from e-sport land. In fact at this point I don’t think the devs know what that would even look like – and this is coming from a huge a-net fanboy. I am so disappointed.

Necro and Warrior main here. I played Necro almost exclusively before this patch, but I got bored of it and picked Warrior back up and tried to make it work. I was actually having some success with a build I created. Now after the patch, my new build that I loved so much, which actually got buffed with the new changes, is now struggling to keep up with other classes. I could easily start playing Necro again, but I can just tell how powerful it is now, faceroll even, and that is not fun to me. I like to be challenged. So here I am, tweaking my Warrior to survive in this meta. I must say Warrior is in a better spot, but the changes were not drastic enough. I’m having a lot of fun, and I can hold my own, especially in 1v1, but when I run into very good players, I just feel completely out matched.

I have yet to play a tourny with my Warrior since the patch, so that will probably change my opinion when that happens. Warrior is very close to being on par with other classes, but just isn’t there yet! I know Arena is aware of the difficulties we have as a class, and I have faith we will get to shine eventually.

Emapudapus.1307:

I would say engineer , just to break cycle of warrior crybabies :p.

Trust me: I play both warrior and engineer. Engineer is hard. Warrior is impossible: sure, you have less buttons to press. But you have to fight against the entire game.

And as engi I still can go bunker and have some chances to win tourneys against premades.

Nukk.3492:

You can’t run a melee DPS in the state the meta is in atm… too much AoE and condi spam. That stuff isn’t fun for anyone so why even promote it? Just cut it out and you don’t even need to buff warrior (much).

I just hate the way they’ve promoted the most cheesiest builds they could think of. Why did they think it would be fun to fight a highly mobile constantly healing boon popping bunkering ele? Why did they think it would be fun to fight rangers and their pets with constant prot & regen & huge evasion? Why did they think it would be fun to fight against evade spamming thieves? Why do they now think its fun to fight against AoE spam or condi overload? ITS JUST NOT FUN, and a million miles away from e-sport land. In fact at this point I don’t think the devs know what that would even look like – and this is coming from a huge a-net fanboy. I am so disappointed.

QFT!

+1

Thanks.

How about we all play the same class? That way no balance issues.

Arrow.3856:

How about we all play the same class? That way no balance issues.

Everyone plays mesmers

The entire game just devolves into a disgusting lagfest where even if you manage to hit something through the throng of clones he’s most likely being invulnerable at the time.

Jzaku.9765:

Arrow.3856:

How about we all play the same class? That way no balance issues.

Everyone plays mesmers

The entire game just devolves into a disgusting lagfest where even if you manage to hit something through the throng of clones he’s most likely being invulnerable at the time.

Bro don’t you know? Mesmers got nerfed. Necros are now our overlords and we must all bow down or we will be tormented through their tainted shackles! KECHWA HAS SPOKEN!

jportell.2197:

Jzaku.9765:

Arrow.3856:

How about we all play the same class? That way no balance issues.

Everyone plays mesmers

The entire game just devolves into a disgusting lagfest where even if you manage to hit something through the throng of clones he’s most likely being invulnerable at the time.

Bro don’t you know? Mesmers got nerfed. Necros are now our overlords and we must all bow down or we will be tormented through their tainted shackles! KECHWA HAS SPOKEN!

Yeah but Necro’s mechanics aren’t as ridiculous as mesmer’s. Their problem is the game’s AoE problem.

Also like that mesmer nerf wasn’t eventually going to come. Getting 40% cooldown reduction on some skills? Seriously?

Jzaku.9765:

jportell.2197:

Jzaku.9765:

Arrow.3856:

How about we all play the same class? That way no balance issues.

Everyone plays mesmers

The entire game just devolves into a disgusting lagfest where even if you manage to hit something through the throng of clones he’s most likely being invulnerable at the time.

Bro don’t you know? Mesmers got nerfed. Necros are now our overlords and we must all bow down or we will be tormented through their tainted shackles! KECHWA HAS SPOKEN!

Yeah but Necro’s mechanics aren’t as ridiculous as mesmer’s. Their problem is the game’s AoE problem.

Also like that mesmer nerf wasn’t eventually going to come. Getting 40% cooldown reduction on some skills? Seriously?

Hey a nerf is a nerf is a nerf. Now people have 20% more time to figure out what they are going to do about those pesky phantasms. Which btw i dont run

If warriors are balanced then I’d say Rangers are close to that, really Rangers have no real gimmicky stuff like some of the other classes, if anything I’d say Rangers are where they should be and warriors should be brought up to our level, which would be a few little buffs here and there.

DevO.9854:

If warriors are balanced then I’d say Rangers are close to that, really Rangers have no real gimmicky stuff like some of the other classes, if anything I’d say Rangers are where they should be and warriors should be brought up to our level, which would be a few little buffs here and there.

Really? Evades on weapon skills that cost no endurance to use and allow you to damage people while remaining invulnerable to attacks are not “gimmicky”?

To quote the great Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Thanks.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

DevO.9854:

If warriors are balanced then I’d say Rangers are close to that, really Rangers have no real gimmicky stuff like some of the other classes, if anything I’d say Rangers are where they should be and warriors should be brought up to our level, which would be a few little buffs here and there.

Really? Evades on weapon skills that cost no endurance to use and allow you to damage people while remaining invulnerable to attacks are not “gimmicky”?

To quote the great Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Thanks.

your kidding right? You talk like they are spamable or something, we have less Armour and do less damage, I see no reason why we shouldn’t evade a little more and heal a little better. Not to mention the fact that I said warriors would need a couple buffs to get up to our range.

I know how much you expect to have no skill and win as a warrior so everyone must stand still and let you hack at them.

Also no evade skill we have does a lot of damage, your talking nonsense and trying to act cool on the internet you win….

DevO.9854:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

DevO.9854:

If warriors are balanced then I’d say Rangers are close to that, really Rangers have no real gimmicky stuff like some of the other classes, if anything I’d say Rangers are where they should be and warriors should be brought up to our level, which would be a few little buffs here and there.

Really? Evades on weapon skills that cost no endurance to use and allow you to damage people while remaining invulnerable to attacks are not “gimmicky”?

To quote the great Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Thanks.

your kidding right? You talk like they are spamable or something, we have less Armour and do less damage, I see no reason why we shouldn’t evade a little more and heal a little better. Not to mention the fact that I said warriors would need a couple buffs to get up to our range.

I know how much you expect to have no skill and win as a warrior so everyone must stand still and let you hack at them.

Also no evade skill we have does a lot of damage, your talking nonsense and trying to act cool on the internet you win….

Nah, just pointing out that your idea of “gimmicky” and mine are not the same is all.

But thanks for the “win”!

Michaeas Magister.1589:

DevO.9854:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

DevO.9854:

If warriors are balanced then I’d say Rangers are close to that, really Rangers have no real gimmicky stuff like some of the other classes, if anything I’d say Rangers are where they should be and warriors should be brought up to our level, which would be a few little buffs here and there.

Really? Evades on weapon skills that cost no endurance to use and allow you to damage people while remaining invulnerable to attacks are not “gimmicky”?

To quote the great Inigo Montoya, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Thanks.

your kidding right? You talk like they are spamable or something, we have less Armour and do less damage, I see no reason why we shouldn’t evade a little more and heal a little better. Not to mention the fact that I said warriors would need a couple buffs to get up to our range.

I know how much you expect to have no skill and win as a warrior so everyone must stand still and let you hack at them.

Also no evade skill we have does a lot of damage, your talking nonsense and trying to act cool on the internet you win….

Nah, just pointing out that your idea of “gimmicky” and mine are not the same is all.

But thanks for the “win”!

yeah but lets be honest its not gimmicky like other classes are gimmicky

The way I see it is this:

Fighting warriors you have to pay attention to what they are doing and react to it
Fighting other classes you focus on forcing your own playstyle on your opponent

Warriors – Both players fully interacting with one another
Everything else – play at your own place aside from paying attention to 1-2 skills that are reasonable and worth reacting to. Otherwise mostly just spam evades and cycle through your rotation.

Don’t worry I have been giving the devs the same msg since day one. Then again this is where we have ended up.

Maybe it is time to start putting a new game together that matches with the vision most players seem to be looking for?

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

DevO.9854:

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

>Asking for every class to not have cheesy mechanics and have clear, identifiable moves with allowance for reaction-time

Yeah that would be absolutely terrible(!)

Jzaku.9765:

DevO.9854:

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

>Asking for every class to not have cheesy mechanics and have clear, identifiable moves with allowance for reaction-time

Yeah that would be absolutely terrible(!)

That would be called an FPS or a turned based game…. Not gonna happen. Srry.

Jzaku.9765:

DevO.9854:

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

>Asking for every class to not have cheesy mechanics and have clear, identifiable moves with allowance for reaction-time

Yeah that would be absolutely terrible(!)

what you should be asking for is those things not to be game breaking, which currently they are.

jportell.2197:

Jzaku.9765:

DevO.9854:

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

>Asking for every class to not have cheesy mechanics and have clear, identifiable moves with allowance for reaction-time

Yeah that would be absolutely terrible(!)

That would be called an FPS or a turned based game…. Not gonna happen. Srry.

Well it’s clearly happening with Warrior right now, what’s stopping the rest of the classes from becoming more like that other than the throng of angry players refusing to stop being carried by their class mechanics?

Jzaku.9765:

jportell.2197:

Jzaku.9765:

DevO.9854:

your asking for a game of all warriors, that is not very interesting.

>Asking for every class to not have cheesy mechanics and have clear, identifiable moves with allowance for reaction-time

Yeah that would be absolutely terrible(!)

That would be called an FPS or a turned based game…. Not gonna happen. Srry.

Well it’s clearly happening with Warrior right now, what’s stopping the rest of the classes from becoming more like that other than the throng of angry players refusing to stop being carried by their class mechanics?

Well for one class mechanics are more than what is just on the skill bar. The trait system in this game allows for a variety of builds that enhance class mechanics or certain class skills. You are asking for everyone to be a warrior running around beating on each other. That would be boring. I have seen successful warriors and man are they brutal. They take no more or less skill to set up their bursts in team fights than any other class they suffer in bunkering thanks to weak healing and bad condi clearing (not the only ones.) If anet were to address that warriors would be in a much better state. ANet has 8 different classes to attract different players and to help fulfill certain roles in team fights…. Making everyone run around as just a warrior would ruin the game. (And no i never run FOTM builds and rely on omgered faceroll specs to finish my work i wear them down over time and manage my cooldowns and illusions…)

jportell.2197:

Well for one class mechanics are more than what is just on the skill bar. The trait system in this game allows for a variety of builds that enhance class mechanics or certain class skills. You are asking for everyone to be a warrior running around beating on each other. That would be boring. I have seen successful warriors and man are they brutal. They take no more or less skill to set up their bursts in team fights than any other class they suffer in bunkering thanks to weak healing and bad condi clearing (not the only ones.) If anet were to address that warriors would be in a much better state. ANet has 8 different classes to attract different players and to help fulfill certain roles in team fights…. Making everyone run around as just a warrior would ruin the game. (And no i never run FOTM builds and rely on omgered faceroll specs to finish my work i wear them down over time and manage my cooldowns and illusions…)

No, class mechanics are what is on your skill bar, like producing mass amounts of clones that clutter the field and get in the way of targeting or getting 20% invulnerability uptime on one skill alone. I’m not asking for everyone to literally be a melee warrior, I am asking for every class’ risk/cost-reward ratio to be adjusted to Warrior level. Making the shatter combo extremely hard to pull off without using at least 1 utility skill for example. Or balancing iZerker around being a ranged attack, or reducing iDuelist’s damage to be an actual ranged attack because these Phantasms are most likely(!) going to be able to pull off at least one attack before they die to AoE so they shouldn’t be balanced around “being destructible entities” with low cooldowns and high damage. Or making blurred frenzy give 40% protection uptime instead, I would rather have a mesmer actually susceptible to attacks at a much reduced damage rate than completely ignore any form of cc while executing their burst. Mind you I am only bringing up mesmers because you play one and it’s probably much easier for you to follow what I’m saying.

Also nobody cares what you run, there are extremely cheese specs that require minimal effort to faceroll people that are adamantly defend as “the only viable spec!” despite being so flagrantly OP, these do exist and people who are not you run them. Just because you have scruples doesn’t mean everyone is pointedly avoiding using the specs that win easily.

I understand that also it is no longer an invulnerability and it is no longer 20% of the time thanks to the its most recent nerf. And you want to talk about mass amounts of clutter? In this case mesmers are the least responsible party. I know of rangers/necros/engis/thieves that use spirits, minions, turrets, and thieves guild/ambush for this exact reason to clutter the field. When it comes to that issue you have more than one culprit to be sure. Also iZerker has been bugged for months and they just barely fixed it any mesmer that uses it is most likely glass… Also thanks to the recent nerf to iCelerity all mesmer summons that aren’t in a shatter build now have a defacto 20% longer cool down which is no small matter. Also thanks to the blurred frenzy nerf one simple “stand your ground” in a team fight will make that mesmer eat so much retal damage their blurred/mindwrack combo actually entails some more risk than it has previously done.

Also phantasms are mesmers only source of direct damage outside of shatters. Blurred frenzy damage still sucks when compared to weapon attacks on well anyone except necro/engi (which have the condi damage to make up for it.) And blurred frenzy is not necessary to give 40% protection uptime there are other ways for mesmers to get good prot uptime but these sacrifice all their damage in order to pull off.
Lastly a full shatter combo also generally requires the use of at least one utility (maybe two) if we are talking about the 20/20/0/0/30 build. If it is a 0/20/20/0/30 then it is less about shatter and more about interrupts which trust me are still extremely difficult builds to make viable. The shatter spec has gotten its nerf this patch with the blurred frenzy nerf… It doesn’t require more. j

On topic warriors need better defense (mind you not much it isn’t as bad as people would have us think)
And the new necro buffs need some tweaks because no class can keep up with the amount of condi spam they are bringin.