Guild Wars 2

I didn’t want to bump an old thread.

Power Block is a Mesmer GM Trait that increases the CD of interrupted skills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This does not work on thief weapon skills because, according to ANet, thieves don’t have CDs in the first place.

Anyway, here’s the thing, Power Block doesn’t work on thieves because ANet says thieves don’t have CD. Power Block’s tooltip says it increases the interrupted CD duration, so if it normally increase 5 to 10, then logically it should increase 0 to 5. So I see no reason this shouldn’t work this way. Thieves will get a mere 5 second CD when they usually get none? Meh, I don’t see how it would completely destroy thieves. Oh, but they lose initiative when you interrupt them in the first place, you say? Well, not always[a bug or something, they don’t lose initiative a lot of the time when they’re interrupted] and that goes for everyone[“Aw, but warriors already get a 5 second CD when they’re interrupted~” sounds ridiculous, really. Same thing for thief initiative loss when rupted, in the case that they actually lost it].

So, what’re your opinions, arguments, mesmer-hate, and thief-fanboyism you have for this topic?

PS, I don’t hate thieves, just annoyed about a trait tailored to ignore them.

I honestly think it SHOULD affect thieves. It was really interesting during the time when it was bugged, as it presented an actual threat to some thief builds.

Dondagora.9645:

I didn’t want to bump an old thread.

Power Block is a Mesmer GM Trait that increases the CD of interrupted skills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This does not work on thief weapon skills because, according to ANet, thieves don’t have CDs in the first place.

Anyway, here’s the thing, Power Block doesn’t work on thieves because ANet says thieves don’t have CD. Power Block’s tooltip says it increases the interrupted CD duration, so if it normally increase 5 to 10, then logically it should increase 0 to 5. So I see no reason this shouldn’t work this way. Thieves will get a mere 5 second CD when they usually get none? Meh, I don’t see how it would completely destroy thieves. Oh, but they lose initiative when you interrupt them in the first place, you say? Well, not always[a bug or something, they don’t lose initiative a lot of the time when they’re interrupted] and that goes for everyone[“Aw, but warriors already get a 5 second CD when they’re interrupted~” sounds ridiculous, really. Same thing for thief initiative loss when rupted, in the case that they actually lost it].

So, what’re your opinions, arguments, mesmer-hate, and thief-fanboyism you have for this topic?

PS, I don’t hate thieves, just annoyed about a trait tailored to ignore them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block

It’s just original cd x some fixed % (Maybe 100% so it doubles but i don’t really know) for 10 secs, so you get let’s say x2 cd on that skill for 10 sec…

and last time i checked 0 (Thief skill’s cd) multiplied by any number (The constant % cd increase during dat 10 secs) still equals to…guess what? Exactly…

\thread

This is now the player vs thief forum. Carry on

Drennon.7190:

This is now the player vs thief forum. Carry on

You’re right. A class should be immune to a GM Trait. Giving a class carte blanche to another classes’ mechanics is poor design. At the very least it should affect the Thief in some way like loss of Initiative or something.

Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!

Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT

wait what? o.O

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

/Thread.

P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?

Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!

Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT

wait what? o.O

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

/Thread.

P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?

Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…

What the actual kitten, this is not even remotely the same. lol.

Archaon.9524:

Dondagora.9645:

I didn’t want to bump an old thread.

Power Block is a Mesmer GM Trait that increases the CD of interrupted skills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This does not work on thief weapon skills because, according to ANet, thieves don’t have CDs in the first place.

Anyway, here’s the thing, Power Block doesn’t work on thieves because ANet says thieves don’t have CD. Power Block’s tooltip says it increases the interrupted CD duration, so if it normally increase 5 to 10, then logically it should increase 0 to 5. So I see no reason this shouldn’t work this way. Thieves will get a mere 5 second CD when they usually get none? Meh, I don’t see how it would completely destroy thieves. Oh, but they lose initiative when you interrupt them in the first place, you say? Well, not always[a bug or something, they don’t lose initiative a lot of the time when they’re interrupted] and that goes for everyone[“Aw, but warriors already get a 5 second CD when they’re interrupted~” sounds ridiculous, really. Same thing for thief initiative loss when rupted, in the case that they actually lost it].

So, what’re your opinions, arguments, mesmer-hate, and thief-fanboyism you have for this topic?

PS, I don’t hate thieves, just annoyed about a trait tailored to ignore them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block

It’s just original cd x some fixed % (Maybe 100% so it doubles but i don’t really know) for 10 secs, so you get let’s say x2 cd on that skill for 10 sec…

and last time i checked 0 (Thief skill’s cd) multiplied by any number (The constant % cd increase during dat 10 secs) still equals to…guess what? Exactly…

\thread

How do you know the specifics on how this trait works, that it works in percent?

Yep, this is exactly what should happen. Thief vs mesmer is already a one-sided matchup, so buffing this would be great. It would also make this trait somewhat viable in an interrupt build.

Iason Evan.3806:

Drennon.7190:

This is now the player vs thief forum. Carry on

You’re right. A class should be immune to a GM Trait. Giving a class carte blanche to another classes’ mechanics is poor design. At the very least it should affect the Thief in some way like loss of Initiative or something.

So it’s safe to assume then that you showed similar dismay over traps/player skills that apply revealed? Those abilities lock out all the minor traits and major traits worth taking in an entire traitline, not just 1 GM trait, as well as locking out a class mechanic!(Thieves being the only class that gain stealth attacks make it a class mechanic)

I mean if you didn’t, it’d just seem like you just didn’t like fighting thieves rather than you actually caring about the integrity of the games design.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is bad.

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is making it broken.

(5+5)*0 = 0

The base interupt cd was increased. Then it was multiplied by 0, because thieves have no weapon CD’s. The math is very clear.

The trait works exactly how it was designed – it increases weapon CD’s – a class designed to have no CD on weapon skills won’t see the increase, because it’s reduced to 0 after the increase by design.

If you had a trait that when triggered tripled the duration of your current might stacks, would you complain it wasn’t working if it triggered when you didn’t have the might boon?

If it helps your understanding, don’t think of thieves weapon skills CD as 0 – think of them as non-existent (because that’s what they are) – you can’t increase what doesn’t exist, in the same way you can’t increase the duration of a boon you don’t have.

The point is, that thieves are almost immune against an offensive control GM trait. There is no reason for a Mesmer to trait it. There are always better options, simply because of one profession being almost immune to it by design.

But this is the normality for mesmers. Screwed up skills, bugs everywhere, and questionable design decisions… I just say: Mimic…

I bet no1 on the ANet balance team plays Mesmer or even cares to take the Mesmer PoV…

And this is not about being against thieves. But if I invest 6 trait points into a GM trait, I would like this one to also effect thieves, which are anyway our “natural predators”

Quadox.7834:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!

Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT

wait what? o.O

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

/Thread.

P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?

Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…

What the actual kitten, this is not even remotely the same. lol.

It actually is in fact the same. Someone in this thread made the plea that a class avoiding another class’ GM trait is poor design or unbalanced or whatever.

Jelzouki.4128:

Quadox.7834:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!

Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT

wait what? o.O

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

/Thread.

P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?

Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…

What the actual kitten, this is not even remotely the same. lol.

It actually is in fact the same. Someone in this thread made the plea that a class avoiding another class’ GM trait is poor design or unbalanced or whatever.

No, it’s a completely ridiculous non-argument. Executioner is “mitigated” by distortion in the same sense that it’s mitigated by a Warrior immunity or a blind or mist form. The interrupt trait is a very clear example of one class being given carte blanche to a major trait investment for no real reason. (It’s not as though 30 Dom isn’t glassy enough to begin with).

By the way the trait originally worked on said skills upon release. It was only changed because it caused Groucharoo took a dirt nap on his Teef in solo queue.

Thief only hardcounter zerker shatter mesmer pretty much everything else you are not hard countered. Nothing prevents you from using PB on other classed except upcoming revenant,it’s not thief countering the trait it’s the trait going against thief’s design,the traits works on thief utilities. How is 2 6 6 not useful?

shimmerless.4560:

Jelzouki.4128:

Quadox.7834:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!

Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT

wait what? o.O

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

/Thread.

P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?

Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…

What the actual kitten, this is not even remotely the same. lol.

It actually is in fact the same. Someone in this thread made the plea that a class avoiding another class’ GM trait is poor design or unbalanced or whatever.

No, it’s a completely ridiculous non-argument. Executioner is “mitigated” by distortion in the same sense that it’s mitigated by a Warrior immunity or a blind or mist form. The interrupt trait is a very clear example of one class being given carte blanche to a major trait investment for no real reason. (It’s not as though 30 Dom isn’t glassy enough to begin with).

By the way the trait originally worked on said skills upon release. It was only changed because it caused Groucharoo took a dirt nap on his Teef in solo queue.

The game has similar skills that shut down entire traitlines, much less individual traits – I don’t see how this is any different.

Any skill that applies Revealed completely shuts down every worthwhile trait in SA, and that is deemed fair.

Diamond skin AND berserker stance shut down every point spent that increases condition duration AND condition damage, as well as any traits that inflict conditions, and that’s deemed fair. Hell, they’re introducing a boon that says “kitten your conditions”!

It just seems like you’re so invested because you want your classes counter weakened, rather than you really care about the overall balance in the game.

Thieves were designed with No weaponskill CD – you knew this when you bought the game. A trait that increases CD’s not affecting a class with no weapon skill CD’s should not be surprising or strange for you.

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is making it broken.

(5+5)*0 = 0

The base interupt cd was increased. Then it was multiplied by 0, because thieves have no weapon CD’s. The math is very clear.

The trait works exactly how it was designed – it increases weapon CD’s – a class designed to have no CD on weapon skills won’t see the increase, because it’s reduced to 0 after the increase by design.

If you had a trait that when triggered tripled the duration of your current might stacks, would you complain it wasn’t working if it triggered when you didn’t have the might boon?

Um… 0>/>0

Therefore the CD is not increased. Because the CD is not the thing multiplied by zero, it is the end result, meaning that 0 on the right side of the = in your equation.

And if a class has an initial CD of zero, then something that increases that CD should make their CD greater than zero. Math.

So even if we understand however it works or it is working as ANet intends, that does not mean we have to agree that that is the right way it should work. That is what this thread is arguing. This thread is saying that ANet did it wrong and we want them to take another look at it.

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is making it broken.

(5+5)*0 = 0

The base interupt cd was increased. Then it was multiplied by 0, because thieves have no weapon CD’s. The math is very clear.

The trait works exactly how it was designed – it increases weapon CD’s – a class designed to have no CD on weapon skills won’t see the increase, because it’s reduced to 0 after the increase by design.

If you had a trait that when triggered tripled the duration of your current might stacks, would you complain it wasn’t working if it triggered when you didn’t have the might boon?

Um… 0>/>0

Therefore the CD is not increased. Because the CD is not the thing multiplied by zero, it is the end result, meaning that 0 on the right side of the = in your equation.

And if a class has an initial CD of zero, then something that increases that CD should make their CD greater than zero. Math.

You missed the edit for clarity – here it is again

“If it helps your understanding, don’t think of thieves weapon skills CD as 0 – think of them as non-existent (because that’s what they are) – you can’t increase what doesn’t exist, in the same way you can’t increase the duration of a boon you don’t have.”

So even if we understand however it works or it is working as ANet intends, that does not mean we have to agree that that is the right way it should work. That is what this thread is arguing. This thread is saying that ANet did it wrong and we want them to take another look at it.

It’s arguing it very poorly. The class was obviously designed the way it was for a reason, your only counter argument is “Thieves are strong against Mes, this shouldn’t work this way!” Perhaps it works this way specifically because thieves are designed to be strong against Mes. Or perhaps it simply works this way because introducing a weaponskill CD to a class designed from the getgo to have no weaponskill CD’s is silly and unbalancing.

Thieves shouldn’t be immune to chill either.

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is making it broken.

(5+5)*0 = 0

The base interupt cd was increased. Then it was multiplied by 0, because thieves have no weapon CD’s. The math is very clear.

The trait works exactly how it was designed – it increases weapon CD’s – a class designed to have no CD on weapon skills won’t see the increase, because it’s reduced to 0 after the increase by design.

If you had a trait that when triggered tripled the duration of your current might stacks, would you complain it wasn’t working if it triggered when you didn’t have the might boon?

Um… 0>/>0

Therefore the CD is not increased. Because the CD is not the thing multiplied by zero, it is the end result, meaning that 0 on the right side of the = in your equation.

And if a class has an initial CD of zero, then something that increases that CD should make their CD greater than zero. Math.

So even if we understand however it works or it is working as ANet intends, that does not mean we have to agree that that is the right way it should work. That is what this thread is arguing. This thread is saying that ANet did it wrong and we want them to take another look at it.

You missed the edit for clarity – here it is again

“If it helps your understanding, don’t think of thieves weapon skills CD as 0 – think of them as non-existent (because that’s what they are) – you can’t increase what doesn’t exist, in the same way you can’t increase the duration of a boon you don’t have.”

Hm, that’s one way of thinking about it. Interesting concept. I think that it should not be done this way.

The argument can also be made that thieves initiative is a shared CD among the weapon skills, in which case PB should affect that. However, that might be a bit too punishing, so a mere five second CD on a single skill might in fact be the better alternative.

So, in this matter, I find the design of thieves having “nonexistent CD” a flawed concept and argue against this. Instead, I suggest “a CD of zero” so that PB can affect it.

Good thing we have so many ardent forum warriors to completely ruin any given thread with solipsist Teef whining.

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s arguing it very poorly. The class was obviously designed the way it was for a reason, your only counter argument is “Thieves are strong against Mes, this shouldn’t work this way!” Perhaps it works this way specifically because thieves are designed to be strong against Mes. Or perhaps it simply works this way because introducing a weaponskill CD to a class designed from the getgo to have no weaponskill CD’s is silly and unbalancing.

Again, nothing against thieves. I kill them daily, and am killed by them daily. Hell, I won’t even use PB. The problem I have is the design crippling a specific trait into being unviable. Thus why I’m saying this specifically: This has nothing to do with thieves, this is about how this trait interacts with thieves. This is also not about thieves and mesmers and hard counters and whatnot. This is purely because I find that the design is breaking a trait.

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased. Therefore if the end result is the same as before, it is not increased. That is part of the problem I have. So 10>5, that makes sense, the ten was increased, it is larger. 0>0 does not make sense, it was not increased as it says it should have, and thus the trait does not work as it says. It is, how you might say, “broken as intended”.

Now, to your point, I understand that the trait probably works as you say, meaning it multiplies the interrupted CD. That is also a problem, as this does not allow the trait to work as it is said to work[as I stated above]. So my issue is that the developers didn’t go through the trouble of making the trait “work” by making it an addition problem, not a multiplication problem.

Thus, I know how it works, I’m saying that way of working is making it broken.

(5+5)*0 = 0

The base interupt cd was increased. Then it was multiplied by 0, because thieves have no weapon CD’s. The math is very clear.

The trait works exactly how it was designed – it increases weapon CD’s – a class designed to have no CD on weapon skills won’t see the increase, because it’s reduced to 0 after the increase by design.

If you had a trait that when triggered tripled the duration of your current might stacks, would you complain it wasn’t working if it triggered when you didn’t have the might boon?

Um… 0>/>0

Therefore the CD is not increased. Because the CD is not the thing multiplied by zero, it is the end result, meaning that 0 on the right side of the = in your equation.

And if a class has an initial CD of zero, then something that increases that CD should make their CD greater than zero. Math.

So even if we understand however it works or it is working as ANet intends, that does not mean we have to agree that that is the right way it should work. That is what this thread is arguing. This thread is saying that ANet did it wrong and we want them to take another look at it.

You missed the edit for clarity – here it is again

“If it helps your understanding, don’t think of thieves weapon skills CD as 0 – think of them as non-existent (because that’s what they are) – you can’t increase what doesn’t exist, in the same way you can’t increase the duration of a boon you don’t have.”

Hm, that’s one way of thinking about it. Interesting concept. I think that it should not be done this way.

The argument can also be made that thieves initiative is a shared CD among the weapon skills, in which case PB should affect that. However, that might be a bit too punishing, so a mere five second CD on a single skill might in fact be the better alternative.

So, in this matter, I find the design of thieves having “nonexistent CD” a flawed concept and argue against this. Instead, I suggest “a CD of zero” so that PB can affect it.

But that is unfortunately unbalancing. The initiative system works the way it works for a reason.

It might further help to realize that the initiative system isn’t all positives – there are costs associated with it. Weapon skills that can be used without CD do not get access to the kind of long duration CC and conditions that other classes get. Imposing further negatives on it, ones it wasn’t designed to accommodate, is unnecessarily punishing.

shimmerless.4560:

Good thing we have so many ardent forum warriors to completely ruin any given thread with solipsist Teef whining.

I concur. Thank you for supporting poorly thought out decisions based entirely on your class preference with no critical thinking applied so as to give me something to defend. Your contributions are invaluable.

BTW, do you have any other big words to use? I already know the definition of the one you keep using, and I’d love to at least get a bigger vocabulary out of my interactions with you, my mesmer mirror.

evilapprentice.6379:

But that is unfortunately unbalancing. The initiative system works the way it works for a reason.

It might further help to realize that the initiative system isn’t all positives – there are costs associated with it. Weapon skills that can be used without CD do not get access to the kind of long duration CC and conditions that other classes get. Imposing further negatives on it, ones it wasn’t designed to accommodate, is unnecessarily punishing.

I know, but that’s part of pros and cons of both systems.

Pros: No CD
Cons: Less-Effective Skills

And, theoretically, there should be cons to thieves being interrupted, meaning loss of init without any effect. That’s not always the case, given that initiative is apparently spent towards the end of the skill cast so if it’s interrupted early, not init is spent. That’s a problem in of itself, though.

What I’m saying is that the Initiative system isn’t full of pros, but it isn’t all cons. It’s balanced for itself, and an interrupt is supposed to be punishing, and PB is a trait to make an interrupt more punishing. My argument, thus, is that a PB interrupt should be equally punishing for thieves as it is for every other class, even if it’s in a way specifically made for their system in order for it not to be overly punishing.

Dondagora.9645:

evilapprentice.6379:

But that is unfortunately unbalancing. The initiative system works the way it works for a reason.

It might further help to realize that the initiative system isn’t all positives – there are costs associated with it. Weapon skills that can be used without CD do not get access to the kind of long duration CC and conditions that other classes get. Imposing further negatives on it, ones it wasn’t designed to accommodate, is unnecessarily punishing.

I know, but that’s part of pros and cons of both systems.

Pros: No CD
Cons: Less-Effective Skills

And, theoretically, there should be cons to thieves being interrupted, meaning loss of init without any effect. That’s not always the case, given that initiative is apparently spent towards the end of the skill cast so if it’s interrupted early, not init is spent. That’s a problem in of itself, though.

What I’m saying is that the Initiative system isn’t full of pros, but it isn’t all cons. It’s balanced for itself, and an interrupt is supposed to be punishing, and PB is a trait to make an interrupt more punishing. My argument, thus, is that a PB interrupt should be equally punishing for thieves as it is for every other class, even if it’s in a way specifically made for their system in order for it not to be overly punishing.

Loss of init without any effect is not comparable to a weaponskill going on CD. 1 skill being put on CD is in no way comparable to losing initiative with no effect, since its 1 static pool for both of your weapon sets.

Thieves are still punished for interrupted weapon skills – the effect doesn’t go off. All of the weapon skills were designed to be used at any time, provided you have enough initiative. Locking one of those skills out, even if it is from a GM trait, isn’t feasible because that’s not how all of the thieves weapon skills were designed.

It also bears mentioning that your GM trait isn’t “entirely useless” against thieves as has been suggested. Thieves still have a heal, 3 util’s, and an elite that can be interrupted and effected by PB, which is fine, because their effects and CD’s were designed with the possibility of being interrupted in mind.

evilapprentice.6379:

Dondagora.9645:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.

When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?

This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.

I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.

So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.

5*2*0 = 0

Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?

(5+5)*0 = 0

Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.

If the “0” represents the CD of the skill, 0, how would your math work with skills on any other profession in the game? Let’s try “Ring of Fire” for example, with a cooldown of 15 seconds. We get: 5*2*15 = 150 seconds cooldown with power block. This is not how it works. If you are in fact implying ALL other skills except thief weapon skills and autoattacks are multiplied by 1 instead of 0, some other things you say are just not true. “The math is very clear”, for example. In no way do you know this is how power block actually works. You are in fact only guessing.

Furthermore it is a thoroughly nonsensical argument to compare power block to using distortion against an executioner thief. It literally makes 0 sense. There is a huge difference between making an active decision (be it activate distortion, equip a trait….) and just being immune to an effect by default. With your distortion logic you could say that obsidian flesh makes every single offensive trait in the game useless. There are infinately more points to make about the post here, but i think you get the general gist of things.

By the way, if you think thieves’ weapon skills can never have any cooldowns at all, you probably haven’t played the game long enough. Try stowing one of your weapon skills or pressing escape (thereby interrupting it yourself, if you will).

Guys do you not remember it did affect Thieves when it was added – but it also caused Stomping and Resing and Auto Attacks to be unusable for 10secs. This is why it doesn’t any more. You can ask them to look again and separate out what keeps Thief 0CD out from AA, Res, Stomp but it seems like a bit more work than most people are thinking.

The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY

Without any class bias.

Why are thieves being defensive?

The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.

Okay, want a fair compromise?

It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?

Coulter.2315:

Guys do you not remember it did affect Thieves when it was added – but it also caused Stomping and Resing and Auto Attacks to be unusable for 10secs. This is why it doesn’t any more. You can ask them to look again and separate out what keeps Thief 0CD out from AA, Res, Stomp but it seems like a bit more work than most people are thinking.

Yeah this is most likely why they removed it. Honestly just make interrupts with power block drain 1 more initiative or something, i don’t know. As long as it works in some way. AAs and Stomps/resses i agree with. And if some people in this thread are worried it will be overpowered if it worked on thief, i promise you 99,67% of mesmers will not even run this trait.

This is really just getting silly now, if we can push aside all the childish accusations of “ur bad. This is gibberish” and really have a discussion on the issue.

Thieves are immune to Power Block for the same reason they are immune to chill… Just because.

All the other examples given have a form of counterplay or a way of getting around it. Diamond Skin only works above 10% damage, zerk stance lasts a few seconds, some things are mitigated by the almighty dodge.

Power Block never has any chance of working on Thieves (in addition to being useless in PvE).

The question is whether or not this is actually good design, not over the math of how the skill works. The same way you say “lul play a thief” I could just as easily say “lel play a Mesmer and try that trait.”

So lets try this again, without the bias. I don’t think good that this trait works literally not at all against Thieves the same way I feel that Chill shouldn’t be just a glorified cripple for them. I feel like there should be an adjustment, even if there needs to be some sort of compensation as a result.

StickerHappy.8052:

The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY

Without any class bias.

Why are thieves being defensive?

The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.

Okay, want a fair compromise?

It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?

Fine by me haha (but for which trait line?)

Quadox.7834:

StickerHappy.8052:

The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY

Without any class bias.

Why are thieves being defensive?

The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.

Okay, want a fair compromise?

It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?

Fine by me haha (but for which trait line?)

Domination maybe haha

Dondagora.9645:

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased.

Increased implies that there was a cooldown on the skill in the first place.

Turk.5460:

Dondagora.9645:

Ah, but that’s the problem. It does not say doubled, it says increased.

Increased implies that there was a cooldown on the skill in the first place.

Agreed. Anything x 0 = 0

Which is fine, but I think in this case a tailor made solution should take it’s place, as an added effect to the GM trait.

Suggestions:

Perhaps something along the lines of “when interrupting a skill that has no cooldown, apply 10 seconds of reveal.”

This could create options for balancing and developing newer skills in the future, I mean for all we know Revenant or one of the upcoming specializations could have have a utility or trait that the meta could dictate a stealth after a certain skill priority, and creating a base line with vague terms like “Skills with no cooldown” creates a covered type of counter play.

Or if we’re going to tailor things just for thieves we could do something along the lines of ""when interrupting a skill that has no cooldown, lock target’s initiative bar" which is something mesmers could definitely use considering the hard counter nature from thieves.

But if that’s considered too strong, whatabout “when interrupting a skill that has no cooldown, the skill costs double initiative.”… if that is too underwhelming then perhaps “when interrupting a skill that has no cooldown, take 5 extra initiative from target”

Also in general WTB less uninterruptable heals.

StickerHappy.8052:

The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY

Without any class bias.

Why are thieves being defensive?

The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.

Okay, want a fair compromise?

It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?

It does work properly.

Thieves have no cooldowns on weapon skills. You can’t increase what doesn’t exist. You’ll note that it works exactly as intended on a thief’s 6-10

evilapprentice.6379:

StickerHappy.8052:

The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY

Without any class bias.

Why are thieves being defensive?

The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.

Okay, want a fair compromise?

It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?

It does work properly.

Thieves have no cooldowns on weapon skills. You can’t increase what doesn’t exist. You’ll note that it works exactly as intended on a thief’s 6-10

Wow. what if mesmers are immune to blind from thieves only? I bet you thieves would whine so hard.

Joking aside, So what’s the sense of the GM trait? What if I came across two thieves in pvp, and only 50% of this trait will work properly since it doesnt affect their weapon skills?

Sounds kittened to me.

Player vs Thief))))

What about when someone uses Power Block on an opponent using Spatial Surge? That doesn’t give it a cooldown either. Maybe we should make Spatial Surge go on a ten second cooldown when it’s interrupted by Power Block. That’s fair, right?

Hello?

evilapprentice.6379:

Loss of init without any effect is not comparable to a weaponskill going on CD. 1 skill being put on CD is in no way comparable to losing initiative with no effect, since its 1 static pool for both of your weapon sets.

Thieves are still punished for interrupted weapon skills – the effect doesn’t go off. All of the weapon skills were designed to be used at any time, provided you have enough initiative. Locking one of those skills out, even if it is from a GM trait, isn’t feasible because that’s not how all of the thieves weapon skills were designed.

It also bears mentioning that your GM trait isn’t “entirely useless” against thieves as has been suggested. Thieves still have a heal, 3 util’s, and an elite that can be interrupted and effected by PB, which is fine, because their effects and CD’s were designed with the possibility of being interrupted in mind.

Will the thief be completely destroyed if a single one of their skills is locked off for 5 seconds? I think not. They have 4 other skills and evasion and their utility. Plus, given as we’ve seemed to come to the consensus that the thief’s weapon skills on its own aren’t powerful, doesn’t that mean that if one of them were locked out, it would actually make less of an impact than if it was of a greater decisive value? Well, I may be wrong here, so I trust you’ll correct me on that statement if so.
And your argument can be made for every class. A warrior’s being punished on an interrupt as their skill didn’t go off, let’s not put it on CD? Of course not. Thieves losing initiative can be the equivalent to losing an amount equal to the importance of the skill. For instance, a warrior’s decisive #4 or #5 weapon skill is interrupted. The CD punishing them might be the same as a #2 or #3 skill, but the fact that the skill was more important means that the punishment is greater. So while the thief’s #2-5 skills don’t have a CD, they do have a level of importance, and when a decisive skill is interrupted they lose more initiative. Or so it should be, or perhaps you’d think it’s too much, but not only do they not lose initiative[most of the time], they also have no CD on interrupt.
So, if we were to design interrupts to punish thieves equally to every other class, there’d have to be a set amount of init lost on interrupted weapon skills so that each skill is punished equally for interrupts and not overly so. Maybe lose 1-2 initiative on interrupt, lose 2 or 4 on PB interrupt? These are pretty low digits, as I’ve taken into account of the shared Initiative pool belonging to all weapon skills. Tell me, is it better to have a flimsy deal on the interrupt where it is sometimes 1% effective[no init of skill lost on interrupt] and sometimes 200% effective[all init of skill lost on interrupt], or would you rather a set deal where the cost is always going to punish just enough?

And, to be honest, do you really think that this trait will be so strong that it breaks thieves if it did do anything to their skills? I think not, it isn’t even all that game-breaking against other classes, just another interrupt trait[We have one that immobilizes on interrupt. That seems pretty bad for thieves, but I don’t hear QQ about it on the forums, so… yeah]. So keep in mind, this isn’t like we’re asking for a “kill thief” button or asking thieves to have CD’s all the time, nor will these kinds of changes ruin any existing thief builds in the future. In a sense, it can be summed up to that this change won’t be as big of a deal as you seem to be making it out as[Just my opinion, of course.].

Xiahou Mao.9701:

What about when someone uses Power Block on an opponent using Spatial Surge? That doesn’t give it a cooldown either. Maybe we should make Spatial Surge go on a ten second cooldown when it’s interrupted by Power Block. That’s fair, right?

Hello?

Lol. You do realize It only does not affect AAs in this situation. But it does affect the other 4.

How bout for thieves? It does not affect 5

Hello?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is really just getting silly now, if we can push aside all the childish accusations of “ur bad. This is gibberish” and really have a discussion on the issue.

Thieves are immune to Power Block for the same reason they are immune to chill… Just because.

All the other examples given have a form of counterplay or a way of getting around it. Diamond Skin only works above 10% damage, zerk stance lasts a few seconds, some things are mitigated by the almighty dodge.

Power Block never has any chance of working on Thieves (in addition to being useless in PvE).

The question is whether or not this is actually good design, not over the math of how the skill works. The same way you say “lul play a thief” I could just as easily say “lel play a Mesmer and try that trait.”

So lets try this again, without the bias. I don’t think good that this trait works literally not at all against Thieves the same way I feel that Chill shouldn’t be just a glorified cripple for them. I feel like there should be an adjustment, even if there needs to be some sort of compensation as a result.

Thieves were designed to have access to all of their weapon skills at all points in time, provided they had the initiative. No other class loses as much as a thief by being locked out of 1 weapon skills because their weapon skills were already designed to have cool downs.

Let’s imagine some scenarios.

You PB Infiltrator return – congratulations, you just cut S/D’s effectiveness in half at the minimum.
You PB CnD – congratulations, you just almost completely shut down D/D.
You PB Shadow shot – congratulations, you just cut D/P’s gap closing and half of its defenses.

The developers designed Thief to spam weapon skills – denying access to them is too strong, which is why interrupts do not affect them.

The same thing with chill – increasing CD’s and slowing initiative are not the same thing – they are not comparable.

Interrupts and Chill don’t affect Thieves because the way they were designed makes those effects disproportionately powerful against thieves, not “Just cause”.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is really just getting silly now, if we can push aside all the childish accusations of “ur bad. This is gibberish” and really have a discussion on the issue.

Thieves are immune to Power Block for the same reason they are immune to chill… Just because.

All the other examples given have a form of counterplay or a way of getting around it. Diamond Skin only works above 10% damage, zerk stance lasts a few seconds, some things are mitigated by the almighty dodge.

Power Block never has any chance of working on Thieves (in addition to being useless in PvE).

The question is whether or not this is actually good design, not over the math of how the skill works. The same way you say “lul play a thief” I could just as easily say “lel play a Mesmer and try that trait.”

So lets try this again, without the bias. I don’t think good that this trait works literally not at all against Thieves the same way I feel that Chill shouldn’t be just a glorified cripple for them. I feel like there should be an adjustment, even if there needs to be some sort of compensation as a result.

I think thieves are not capable of Constructive Talks

Xiahou Mao.9701:

What about when someone uses Power Block on an opponent using Spatial Surge? That doesn’t give it a cooldown either. Maybe we should make Spatial Surge go on a ten second cooldown when it’s interrupted by Power Block. That’s fair, right?

Hello?

………I assume you’re joking. If you’re not, I’ll explain that all #1, or AA[Autoattacks], aren’t put on CD when interrupted, but again, I’ll assume you’re joking.

StickerHappy.8052:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is really just getting silly now, if we can push aside all the childish accusations of “ur bad. This is gibberish” and really have a discussion on the issue.

Thieves are immune to Power Block for the same reason they are immune to chill… Just because.

All the other examples given have a form of counterplay or a way of getting around it. Diamond Skin only works above 10% damage, zerk stance lasts a few seconds, some things are mitigated by the almighty dodge.

Power Block never has any chance of working on Thieves (in addition to being useless in PvE).

The question is whether or not this is actually good design, not over the math of how the skill works. The same way you say “lul play a thief” I could just as easily say “lel play a Mesmer and try that trait.”

So lets try this again, without the bias. I don’t think good that this trait works literally not at all against Thieves the same way I feel that Chill shouldn’t be just a glorified cripple for them. I feel like there should be an adjustment, even if there needs to be some sort of compensation as a result.

I think thieves are not capable of Constructive Talks

That’s professionist.

StickerHappy.8052:

Lol. You do realize It only does not affect AAs. But it does affect the other 4.

How bout for thieves? It does not affect 5

Hello?

Dondagora.9645:

………I assume you’re joking. If you’re not, I’ll explain that all #1, or AA[Autoattacks], aren’t put on CD when interrupted, but again, I’ll assume you’re joking.

Well, you’re right about auto-attacks not going on cooldown when interrupted. But neither are thief weapon skills. You seem to want thief weapon skills to change so that they can go on cooldown when interrupted. So it’s only fair the same be true for things like Spatial Surge if your proposal is to be considered.

I don’t see how that’s any more ridiculous than what you’re talking about. There’s a subset of skills on all classes that aren’t affected by Power Block. This is inconsistent and it should be changed. Or are you just no longer a fan of this idea since it’s now potentially hurting your class?

(as mentioned earlier in this thread, this is how Power Block worked when it initially came out, and it promptly got changed/fixed)

evilapprentice.6379:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is really just getting silly now, if we can push aside all the childish accusations of “ur bad. This is gibberish” and really have a discussion on the issue.

Thieves are immune to Power Block for the same reason they are immune to chill… Just because.

All the other examples given have a form of counterplay or a way of getting around it. Diamond Skin only works above 10% damage, zerk stance lasts a few seconds, some things are mitigated by the almighty dodge.

Power Block never has any chance of working on Thieves (in addition to being useless in PvE).

The question is whether or not this is actually good design, not over the math of how the skill works. The same way you say “lul play a thief” I could just as easily say “lel play a Mesmer and try that trait.”

So lets try this again, without the bias. I don’t think good that this trait works literally not at all against Thieves the same way I feel that Chill shouldn’t be just a glorified cripple for them. I feel like there should be an adjustment, even if there needs to be some sort of compensation as a result.

Thieves were designed to have access to all of their weapon skills at all points in time, provided they had the initiative. No other class loses as much as a thief by being locked out of 1 weapon skills because their weapon skills were already designed to have cool downs.

Let’s imagine some scenarios.

You PB Infiltrator return – congratulations, you just cut S/D’s effectiveness in half at the minimum.
You PB CnD – congratulations, you just almost completely shut down D/D.
You PB Shadow shot – congratulations, you just cut D/P’s gap closing and half of its defenses.

The developers designed Thief to spam weapon skills – denying access to them is too strong, which is why interrupts do not affect them.

The same thing with chill – increasing CD’s and slowing initiative are not the same thing – they are not comparable.

Interrupts and Chill don’t affect Thieves because the way they were designed makes those effects disproportionately powerful against thieves, not “Just cause”.

Theres this wonderful thing in gw2 called weapon swapping. If half of your weapon set is on cd, you swap to it. Saying thieves would be useless if they lost 1 ability is just pathetic. They have 9 other abilities from their weapons they can use if 1 ability is disabled. Besides, If the Mesmer is skilled enough to interrupt any of the abilities you just mentioned, he deserves that ability disabled.