Guild Wars 2

Dear Grouchie Poo, go ahead and put yourself on the Wall of Champions! (Right next to Boston Boys)

Awww yizz, finally something is done about the turrets, faith a little bit restored.

+1 Can’t wait for live update.

ok sure, but can you take a look at turret engi’s protection uptime and consider that as well or instead? between thumper and protection injection and 30% boon duration from alchemy, engi easily has potentially 130% protection uptime. no other class comes close, and when they do, like d/d ele did, you nerf it.

I think this is a very interesting way of bringing turrets back into line. A very clever change if you ask me.

It doesn’t make turret engineers unviable in pvp, this just means they have to play a little more cleverly, your classic point holder will be able to joust 1v1 vs a turret engineer and it will be a trial of skill at last!

Can’t wait for these changes to hit!

- Divok

Dont cry victory yet.. still needs to see if that helps. cant hurt more then it is now.. but sur cant call it balanced yet. theory needs to be proof.

As an Engi, I am good with seeing how this plays out. Makes sense. That said, any fixes to turrets not being affected by gravity and can be placed in air?

Hey Josh!

Very glad to hear this change! I think this would really help in PvP. However please concider the point that this does not change the fact that turret gameplay is still very passive and might get way less used now they are squishier so less viable.
It is a really hard dilemma in my opinion. I think it would be a nice first step. Second would be to actually increase the activeness of the turrets.

On a side note: you are saying that enemies rarely crir and use condis in PvE. Might be great to see this change to maybe make things like toughness, healing and condi cleanse more important in PvE.

Greetings, V!

Does the fact that they’ll be able to critically hit mean that their base damage is also reduced, for instance, should I be afraid of 4k crits from Rocket turret because it’s base damage is slightly above 1k?

A good start, it especially makes condi and celestial builds truly stronger. I guess something like shatter mesmer can also stack up vuln on turrets too. However, if you still allow turrets to be placed mid-air, it won’t change too much.

Ive had multiple people say give turrets wheels, that way they can be like minions or spirits and be more vulnerable to cleave since they would have to follow the engi. Idk just a thought

I don’t, and haven’t ever played as a turret engi, but both of these changes together seems a bit much.

If its one or the other, I think I’d rather the crit. conditions like bleed on a turret make about as much sense as blinding a Dredge.

I have to admit that I absolutely love the way you apply changes now, I see that the way changes are applied it’s different from the one used used a couple of years ago.

You apply nerfs while safeguarding the build viability . Really good job, glad to know that I don’t have to fear anymore sweeping crushing nerfs like the ones occurred in 2013

+1, nice change and fair
FYI; when would this go in effect?

I think just the opposite might make more since.

Turrets should not be able to critically hit since they are objects you currently cant critically hit.

Also, make them effected by non-fleshy conditions…

Can’t imagine how a turret would be poisioned or bleed. But then again you can miss a shout from blind or block a shout. So not sure if making since is a goal here. Other than the suggested add a despawn range or have them deteriorate when a engie is to far.

ah maaaaaan can’t find an animated gif of a blowing up turret or something

but
still…..

HELL YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!

I think ALL AI builds “should” be good 1v1 builds but overall only effective low/medium levels to serve as training for new players.

Even if this change completely shuts turrets away from any 2v2+ , I still think its a great change that needs to happen.

It will be like minion necro – very good in 1v1 , but not for teamfights or high tourny tier.

Praise the Grouch !

How about the turret regen becoming a boon (thus removable and subject to other forms of boon hate)? Or maybe it’s an active heal, in which case ignore me, I obviously don’t play engi ;-P

Mireles Lore.5942:

I think just the opposite might make more since.

Turrets should not be able to critically hit..

Read it again, nice and slow
“Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.”

Nice change. This removes some of the hard counters that have frustrated some players in regards to turrets. At least, aoe cleave will bring them down even faster, and zerker rangers will now hard counter turrets (more than before). Same with zerker staff elementalist. Truly a good idea to buff the less represented classes in facing what some consider a plague spec. This might even affect the meta, in unorganized teams, XD. Either way, I’m not looking forward to more zerker rangers (should they appear), as they are in general good against engineers.

The only thing is, I wish the change to turrets being affected by conditions was pvp only. I sometimes use turrets in pve in areas where conditions would kill me, allowing me to continue some pressure. (This change prevents that strategy)

Anyway, thanks for the information Josh. I look forward to seeing where it leads.

Dirame.8521:

Does the fact that they’ll be able to critically hit mean that their base damage is also reduced, for instance, should I be afraid of 4k crits from Rocket turret because it’s base damage is slightly above 1k?

Re-read the post: able to BE critically hit. Meaning, when you hit a turret, YOU can critically hit it = turret can be broken quicker.

Josh Davis.6015:

Dirame.8521:

Does the fact that they’ll be able to critically hit mean that their base damage is also reduced, for instance, should I be afraid of 4k crits from Rocket turret because it’s base damage is slightly above 1k?

The change means they will be able to receive critical hits, not give them.

Ah awesome, thanks! Misread that.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

In my opinion it’s a good change but you should also add that turrets stop working if the engie is too far away. What I hate the most is when the node is free to cap but still supply crate it’s annoying as hell

Grouch,
I literally came in my pants when I read this. Thank you

I think one of the biggest issues with the turrets right now is how they can be placed in places that cannot be reached. This makes them impossible to be destroyed by many classes and ultimately adds to the frustration of playing against turret engys.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

These are great changes and the sooner they are implemented, the better. I’d also like to propose a change which makes the turrets despawn after the engineer moves away from them a certain range, similar to how spirit rangers who do not trait into Spirits Unbound will have their spirits disappear.

This is good as a start, but one of the other worst parts about turrets is that they can be placed in unreachable locations (such as flying turrets) that renders them immune to AOE damage or immune to projectiles due to obstruction. That absolutely needs to be resolved along with the changes listed here.

:)!

Aside from conditions and critical hits, the issue of mid air placement should also be dealt with.

Mid air turrets need to be looked into and fixed.

As a celestial rifle engineer, the amount of CC turrets do on top of the rifle is a bit extreme. People claim simple rifle CC is over the top. If I was in the balancing team, I would look into maybe getting rid of rocket knock downs.

But if turrets are going to be easily cleavable then maybe not do that.

One question how can an inanimate object ie turrets be bled they are not living, this is a silly changed that would not make sense what so ever. As you said you compared these to other AI like minions etc. Turrets are not a mobile object they are not living so this change makes no sense, unlike minions pets etc turrets can’t be called back like pets only destroyed this will hurt all aspects of the game modes from PVE/WvW/PvP. Please re-think this one.

Best way I’d see it is look at why turret engis are strong like where you can place turrets that cant be hit by any form of attacks this is the problem or the way celest engis are running rampant.

Make it so that when you crit a turret you do 2.5 times the crit damage that way it would off set the NO condi aspect which I think would ruin the engi as a class in all forms of game modes.

Mooncow.6847:

Grouch,
I literally came in my pants when I read this. Thank you

Aren’t turret engies already countered by condition pressure? I feel like making their turrets weak against condis would be redundant. Making them susceptible to crits seems like a good move but making them vulnerable to both crits and condis would make them ineffective against both direct damage and condi damage builds and I think that’d make turret builds almost useless.

Making it so they can’t be placed in unreachable locations and that they despawn if the engi moves far away along with the crit change seems like a better way to go about balancing them so that they’re not useless.

The proposed changes sound good to me. I enjoy playing as a turret engi on occasion, but there’s no denying that turrets are more than a bit too tanky.

Rising Dusk.2408:

This is good as a start, but one of the other worst parts about turrets is that they can be placed in unreachable locations that renders them immune to AOE damage or immune to projectiles due to obstruction. That absolutely needs to be resolved along with the changes listed here.

Here is an album of a number of the completely broken locations turrets can currently be placed.

I’ve always felt that this is an issue of upside vs. downside, and shouldn’t be changed.
Upside: Turrets can (should) be placed strategically, maybe in places an engineer is uniquely capable of reaching.
Downside: Turrets, unlike any other class AI, effectively locks the Engi in place.

Can we get the same for world bosses like Teq and Claw of Jormag and other objects?

Ele is gonna have a Ball with AoE crits

A “solution” that as usual fails to address the main problem: for all that Anet loves to talk about “active play”, this is one of the most passive, leave-it-to-the-AI builds in the game. Turrets need reduced uptime, reduced life. They should have the same (lack of) durability as a Mesmer’s phantasms. If an Engineer wants to upkeep 2-3 turrets, they should have to work for it with constant, active refreshes.

Also, this does nothing to address placing turrets in inaccessible locations, as mentioned above.

Soooo, combustive shot → profit?

Yasssssss!

… now, if only you could get rid of mid air turrets while you’re in there?

@OP:
Thanks for the information. I think this will be a nice improvement.

It has been quite frustrating that they were immune to crits and damage as. For example:

• Berserker … both of your secondary stats become useless (precision/ferocity).
• Condition Builds … your primary stat becomes useless.

If we are talking by affected by conditions, only damaging ones should suffice. One of the charms of turrets is that the cant be crippled, chilled, blinded, stunned but in return can’t be buffed and I think it best that we keep it that way. not being able to ignore four stats (condition damage,condition duration, precision and ferocity) will be a very good start.

Is this happening tomorrow?

Make turrets susceptible to confusion and make them mobile like other summons/minions.

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

I’ve always felt that this is an issue of upside vs. downside, and shouldn’t be changed.
Upside: Turrets can (should) be placed strategically, maybe in places an engineer is uniquely capable of reaching.
Downside: Turrets, unlike any other class AI, effectively locks the Engi in place.

I looked at that album more closely (pulled it from a reddit thread) and felt that a number of the spots shown were actually legitimate. The really bad ones are where the turrets are flying, where the turret was in a tree or on an unreachable wall/lantern, or things like that. I edited my post to reflect that.

Grouch, did you consider the impact this nerf has on the elite skill Supply Drop? What I mean is, this change would be a nerf to almost all engineer builds in the meta.

I wish the celestial issue got the same sensible treatment. Honestly, was already expecting a “let’s nerf all CC across all game modes” type of solution.

As a mainly PVE Engi I have to say that one fo the only reasons I ever use turrets is in situations with condi damage that I can actually use them to body block shots for me or keep agro away from me and because they aren’t susceptable to condis it works.

Take that away and Turrets will see 0 use in PVE as far as I’m concerned.

Crits, not too worried about, the condi’s has me concerned though. TBH I’m thinking one fight and specifically a burning effect that will slowly whittle me down, using turret I can deal with it.

So when I see “slight effect” on the viability of them in PVE, I can’t help but feel that the slight change will make it go from use them once in a blue moon to never at all, which kinda sucks.

My 2cents, I know it’s not PVP related but if you’re talking about nerfing abilities I feel it’s fair to at least voice the PVE concern even if most people here probably don’t care.

Either conditions or crits effecting turrets would have been enough. Both are too much, however, and will mean turrets other than thumper will die very quickly versus any compositions. If you mean to implement both, I’d suggest health increases on non-thumper turrets to compensate.

Personally I’d like to see 3 things:

• Turrets affected by conditions
• Turrets other than Healing Turret are placed where the Engineer was located when the channel began. Fixes turrets in midair, which was one of the main reasons turrets are hard to kill
• Protection Injection switches places with Stabilized Armor. The engi must decide whether they want to take protection against personal burst, or damage reduction on turrets, reducing their effective defenses overall

squishes forum bug