Guild Wars 2

Over the past few days I’ve noticed a distinct and vehement opposition to the idea of long term goals in PvP. The obvious example of course is the ranking system which many people (with some justification) felt was too tedious. However, the ranking system was the only form of long term progression in the mode as opposed to PvE where you can get achievement points galore, gold, legendaries and so on and so forth.

Titles like “Champion Brawler” are nice, but are even more long term than ranks and doesn’t have any “mid paths” to boot. There’s no indication that you’re half way there, no steps. Another solution has been to implement different colors, more types of titles, minis etc etc.

But these titles will only become the “new rank” system. The problem is that I sense a very fundamental hostility to the idea of progression itself. The idea of a long term goal that you work for over the years. We have to face the fact that there will always be players who are far above the rest. And they too need something to reach towards. By definition, those milestones will always be far above what the rest of us can achieve.

Leaderboards are not a valid form of progression. It’s not “sticky” in the sense that your ranking can change from time to time and even go down completely. What we’re looking for is some form of constantly progressing long term goal. We have an umpteen number of them in PvE, but so far ranks were the only thing for us in PvP.

It’s not even as if these two are opposed to each other. We can have leaderboards and long term progressive goals. But the scenario has been portrayed as if it’s one vs the other.

So coming back to the basic question – What is the motivation behind all the opposition to long term goals in PvP? A unique finisher, a special series of titles…or even an infinite ranking system that never ends. What, I want to know, can the possible resistance be to such a concept when it has neither an impact on a player’s game or loot, nor gets in the way of their being recognized for their skill?

Get rid of rank points if you want. But give us some other form of progression that doesn’t get in anyone’s way. Unfortunately so many people seem to be opposing this basic concept itself and I don’t know why.

If I were to be uncharitable, I could pin it down to jealousy and not wanting some players to be “above the rest” by virtue of them having more time to spend in PvP. But why not? What is wrong with making us happy by giving us goals that reward the effort we put into the game? How does that come in the way of anyone’s enjoyment.

But I’m making no assumptions. I won’t assume bad faith. I’ll keep an open mind and stay responsive to the idea that there are better reasons than mere envy, or excessive egalitarianism.

What is the reason?

Woah, took ages to read that through, but I do agree with you, I will miss the really long-term goals a LOT! Some sort of infinite ranking system would be awesome, what I liked with the old ranking system was that it was virually infinite and the rewards were cooler that simple titles Some other sort of ranking that was infinite and gave you cool finisher would be awesome, though I’m a bit sad the current ranking system couldn’t be that long-term goal

A few players have offered the possibility to introduce some new finishers, basically the same that are available now but with different colors. The rank progression could stop at r80 but maybe it could keep stacking on some sort of achievement, at r90 you would unlock a blue rabbit, at r100 a blue deer and so on and so forth.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

There’s been a lot of controversy surrounding the rank finisher lately. I think that something that might make the community happy is to add new finishers @ certain ranks past 80 (maybe @ r150 or r200), and make them super long term goals. Perhaps a balthazar finisher or a grenth finisher, or maybe a dragon finisher— but with the GW dragons (like Glint or Zhaitan or something). Whatever it is, it has to be epic if we’re to be expected to put lots of time in to unlock it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think maybe titles for every say 15 level ups after 80? People have mentioned little colored finishers. Or if you don’t want rank ups to be the benchmark, the tournament games won. Something that others can see and that you can show as well without getting in anyone’s way.

I realize that 80 will be a long term goal for a lot of people. But…there are lots and lots of us that have hit that limit. Wouldn’t you want us to have something to look forward to after that? It doesn’t get in anyone’s way, allows us to be happy and (I think) should be fairly easy to implement. Isn’t that little bit of effort worth it for players who’ve stuck it out in PvP for so long? I’d like to think we’ve earned that much at least no…?

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

@Evan,

I’ve posted this in other threads, but we really need ranks past 80. I understand that people will keep getting chests, but that isn’t a motivation.

In PvE, a level cap makes sense. At level 80, someone can still work towards better gear.

In PvP, you do not work towards better gear (nor should you). People like earning a higher rank. So what if someone is rank 200? Remember that ANET was originally going to remove rank. Since you are keeping it, why not let people progress as high as they want. This allows you to then start giving new rewards.

Should be an easy fix and I hope it is implemented.

bhagwad.4281:

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

I suggested to introduce new finishers while leaving the r80 accessible a few posts back, I think that kind of compromise is more likely to succeed than just offering to put some new ranks.

If I’m not mistaken, Anet feel there should be a sense of progression in PvP, hence the need for an accessible r80. Now if your proposals get in the way of that, they better be kitten convincing.

Uhtameit.2413:

bhagwad.4281:

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

I suggested to introduce new finishers while leaving the r80 accessible a few posts back, I think that kind of compromise is more likely to succeed than just offering to put some new ranks.

If I’m not mistaken, Anet feel there should be a sense of progression in PvP, hence the need for an accessible r80. Now if your proposals get in the way of that, they better be kitten convincing.

In your opinion, are you against all forms of long term rewards? (long term rewards meaning goals that even the highest current crop of players can aim for and essentially out of reach of most people).

Because if we both agree that progression is a good thing, shouldn’t those of us who are current r55+ have progression as well?

Just make ranks go above 80, and make an animation that shows your rank in numbers when you use a finisher.

Maybe iy could even be in roman numbers… When someone sees a number theyve never seen before, they may pay some apecial attention to it, maybe ask what eank that id, or google it. Compared to the simple “Oh, they’re rank 81.”.

It would create a difference between someone who played 5 years, and someone who played a half year of only pvp, and it doesn’t sound extremely difficult to make :D

Edit: in my oppinion ranks should be even faster, so it can become part of the new reward system, instead of just being 1 level and 5 skillpoints you get every week.

On top of infinite ranks, it could maybe be earned 4 times faster, but also make the finisher unlocks 4 times slower (so dragon would be unlocked at 320, and takes the same time as 80 at 15 april). Every rank would still get a reward box, though.

I really enjoy seeing the bars in pve an wve actually move every timr I do an event/dungeon/kill a player… The pvp bar just takes a single small step after each match :P

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

The problem with the rank 80 prestige system is that dragon finisher has already been given.

Is there anything more epic than the dragon in guild wars 2? I don´t think so.

the sober ninja.6539:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

There’s been a lot of controversy surrounding the rank finisher lately. I think that something that might make the community happy is to add new finishers @ certain ranks past 80 (maybe @ r150 or r200), and make them super long term goals. Perhaps a balthazar finisher or a grenth finisher, or maybe a dragon finisher— but with the GW dragons (like Glint or Zhaitan or something). Whatever it is, it has to be epic if we’re to be expected to put lots of time in to unlock it.

I´m up for some Glint / Zhaitan finisher, but it really has to be more amazing and epic than the actual dragon, thing right now I doubt considerably.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

The problem with the rank 80 prestige system is that dragon finisher has already been given.

Is there anything more epic than the dragon in guild wars 2? I don´t think so.

It’s about perception. People will get prestige from that which is most difficult to attain. I think titles or finishers will easily fit the bill.

How about extensions of the Champion X titles? SharpShot made an excellent post on how this could be implemented and it would be great incentive for new players and a nice addition for veterans.

bhagwad.4281:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

The problem with the rank 80 prestige system is that dragon finisher has already been given.

Is there anything more epic than the dragon in guild wars 2? I don´t think so.

It’s about perception. People will get prestige from that which is most difficult to attain. I think titles or finishers will easily fit the bill.

I agree with you, but aesthetically, a dragon is the most epic and beautiful thing that could be developed on finisher, or at least, it is just the symbol of something strong, big and epic.

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

bhagwad.4281:

Uhtameit.2413:

bhagwad.4281:

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

I suggested to introduce new finishers while leaving the r80 accessible a few posts back, I think that kind of compromise is more likely to succeed than just offering to put some new ranks.

If I’m not mistaken, Anet feel there should be a sense of progression in PvP, hence the need for an accessible r80. Now if your proposals get in the way of that, they better be kitten convincing.

In your opinion, are you against all forms of long term rewards? (long term rewards meaning goals that even the highest current crop of players can aim for and essentially out of reach of most people).

Because if we both agree that progression is a good thing, shouldn’t those of us who are current r55+ have progression as well?

I am not, I just said I suggested to unlock finishers without unlocking ranks ! I just feel that if we just offer something that is completely opposite to what ArenaNet seems to wish, we will never get anywhere because they will probably not adapt it.

It’s our role to offer compromises so that ArenaNet can introduce the progression they want while the progression for r55+ exists as well. That can’t be done by adding ranks.

Do you see my point?

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

Get out of here. You have nothing interesting nor constructive to offer. Just criticism.
We are trying to solve how to properly offer reward and progression for the most dedicated players.

Golden capes & gvg

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

Get out of here. You have nothing interesting nor constructive to offer. Just criticism.
We are trying to solve how to properly offer reward and progression for the most dedicated players.

your the one who needs to GTFO, if you read his OP you know hes asking why a lot of players seems to oppose a long term goal, when in fact even with the balance changes to rank its still a long term goal to others. but wait i mention others and not the rank 70+ players who QQing about how their prestige is being taken away. this thread is not about being constructed. i know what he want and what you want. the OP is criticism to other who doesnt share his oppinion. and even go as far thinking others are just jealous? of what a 3d render in a video game? some people will get jealous if you have a nice job, family, gf/bf, car, house etc. but video game really? some people need to get out more rather than play video games.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

Get out of here. You have nothing interesting nor constructive to offer. Just criticism.
We are trying to solve how to properly offer reward and progression for the most dedicated players.

your the one who needs to GTFO, if you read his OP you know hes asking why a lot of players seems to oppose a long term goal, when in fact even with the balance changes to rank its still a long term goal to others. but wait i mention others and not the rank 70+ players who QQing about how their prestige is being taken away. this thread is not about being constructed. i know what he want and what you want. the OP is criticism to other who doesnt share his oppinion. and even go as far thinking others are just jealous? of what a 3d render in a video game? some people will get jealous if you have a nice job, family, gf/bf, car, house etc. but video game really? some people need to get out more rather than play video games.

Lol so much angryness in here.
I hope you were able to unload all that shiz and feel better at your teen´s bedroom.

Could you two have your fun in in Private Messages please?

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

Get out of here. You have nothing interesting nor constructive to offer. Just criticism.
We are trying to solve how to properly offer reward and progression for the most dedicated players.

your the one who needs to GTFO, if you read his OP you know hes asking why a lot of players seems to oppose a long term goal, when in fact even with the balance changes to rank its still a long term goal to others. but wait i mention others and not the rank 70+ players who QQing about how their prestige is being taken away. this thread is not about being constructed. i know what he want and what you want. the OP is criticism to other who doesnt share his oppinion. and even go as far thinking others are just jealous? of what a 3d render in a video game? some people will get jealous if you have a nice job, family, gf/bf, car, house etc. but video game really? some people need to get out more rather than play video games.

Lol so much angryness in here.
I hope you were able to unload all that shiz and feel better at your teen´s bedroom.

lol sorry to say but i think the only one angry here is you, coz rank 55+ players will be dragons. /bow

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

honestly this is probably the 6 or 7 times this guy made a thread of the same thing. and its always the same QQ. you mention that jealousy is the reason most players approve the rank balance changes. just you know that rank55+ players are not the only one affected by this patch. present and future pvper who can now achieve the highest rank available are happy with the changes. and all you can think about is why rank 55+ will get to be dragons. i have friends who are rank 70+ and ill be happy for them to be first batch of dragons but not to others expense, thats so selfish of you. i have no problem if anet gives them special titles or special finisher. most dont support you coz i think they are not narrow minded like you.

Get out of here. You have nothing interesting nor constructive to offer. Just criticism.
We are trying to solve how to properly offer reward and progression for the most dedicated players.

your the one who needs to GTFO, if you read his OP you know hes asking why a lot of players seems to oppose a long term goal, when in fact even with the balance changes to rank its still a long term goal to others. but wait i mention others and not the rank 70+ players who QQing about how their prestige is being taken away. this thread is not about being constructed. i know what he want and what you want. the OP is criticism to other who doesnt share his oppinion. and even go as far thinking others are just jealous? of what a 3d render in a video game? some people will get jealous if you have a nice job, family, gf/bf, car, house etc. but video game really? some people need to get out more rather than play video games.

Lol so much angryness in here.
I hope you were able to unload all that shiz and feel better at your teen´s bedroom.

lol sorry to say but i think the only one angry here is you, coz rank 55+ players will be dragons. /bow

I´ve got other interests in life now, otherwise I would be playing the game, instead writing posts in the forum (it takes less time).

I believe that r55 is a mistake, but anyway, whatever they decide to rework I can success on it, so no problem. Will be funny to see everyone spamming dragons in the mists

He makes a good point….we have nothing besides the long term goals. The MMR / ladder system is one of the worst if not the worst ive ever seen. Mostly because Anet is incredibly arrogant…thinking they can reinvent everything instead of copy pasting concepts that actually work.

I just wanted to step in and show my support for Uhtameit’s idea of a rank 80 cap and additional progression via finishers.

Rank 80 is still a long term goal. Getting a Legendary is still a long term goal. Is what you want a possible infinite goal? Some people in PvE complain about the same thing after getting their Legendaries and Ascended Armor, and all I can think about is how to find a balance?

Longevity always felt like it was better served by things that bring you back to the game with even slightly different experiences and goals. For WvW and PvP this tends to be tournaments with prizes, and for PvE it’s the Living Story.

Long term displayable rewards aren’t bad by themselves. The problem arises when the community starts using them as some kind of performance measurement.

For someone who tries to form a pick up roster or recruit for an sPvP dedicated guild, some minor requeriment is reasonable because there’s usually a correlation between these milestones and player’s performance at low/mid levels.
The community tends, however, to update these numbers as time goes by according to veteran players’ values. What was r30 yesterday might be r40 todays and probably will be r50 tomorrow.

There’s an easy PvE analogy with AP requeriments for dungeon groups. Asking for 1k or 2k makes total sense; asking for something like 8k is plain ridiculous.
Veteran players having amassed daily/monthly AP for over a year is hte only reason for that 8k mark to even exist and, while a few weeks are more than enough for a new player to get familiar and competent with the current dungeon meta, the requeriment is completely unreachable in that timeframe.

As long as there’s a better displayable indicative for performance measurements (like some kind of MMR, not flawed like the current one if possible :P), there’s no problem on long term rewards existing. When these rewards are the main visual clue broadcasted to the community (which is what happens atm), then there’s a serious long run issue with the system.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I´m all up for the rank 80 prestige system.
You can offer different coloured dragon finishers. Surround the finisher with an special aura or some special effects & particles.
Here you´ve got a good spot for creativity.

You could try making the advanced tiers dragons with different animations, colours. Endure their animations, hell you can even work towards a double dragon finisher or a dragon + phoenix finisher mixed together.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

Fwiw…

Having awesome professions and combat systems (see city of heroes for archetype designs, customization, diversity, build options and flexibility, play and counter play, …, … for reference) with a development team devoted to continuously improving these aspects are the most valuable rewards. Y’all can give away all the virtual rewards, titles and finishers in the game world, but it’s not going to make the current subpar professions and combat systems better.

Proven.2854:

Rank 80 is still a long term goal. Getting a Legendary is still a long term goal. Is what you want a possible infinite goal? Some people in PvE complain about the same thing after getting their Legendaries and Ascended Armor, and all I can think about is how to find a balance?

Longevity always felt like it was better served by things that bring you back to the game with even slightly different experiences and goals. For WvW and PvP this tends to be tournaments with prizes, and for PvE it’s the Living Story.

I will be rank 80 and im super casual. During some weeks i dont play any games and during other weeks i play a few more. But never more than a 2 hours a day. Shortly after the release i quit GW2 for several months even to go back to wow arenas.

If what i have rankwise is the finishline of our longterm goal, the hardcore players will be left in the cold. It doesnt make sense to do this tbh. Are we turning in to wow where every single player needs to see everything and get the same rewards as the hardcore players?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

First and foremost, thank you for creating these megaservers. I had proposed such a thing in the past and i’m SO happy this is finally happening !

Secondly as an anwser to your question:

Short version:
-Achievments
-Visible Ranks
-Prestiged ranks with unique finishers and titles
-Make the champion titles tiered; 150-300-600-1000
-Capes rewarded through a combination of prestige, tournaments wins, and X times in a ladder position

Achievments

Add more achievments. If you want unification of PvP and PvE, you need to make earning AP equal through PvP and PvE, or at least give us more opportunities to earn more AP, since AP Chests give unique rewards.

Killing blows, stomps, revives, captures, healing done, combofields, raw dmg, condi dmg, crits, wins by gamemode, achievments tied to unique map mechanics(differs through gamemodes), the list goes on…

This could acutally only truly be implemented if you apply the megaserver system on pvp hotjoin if you are going to keep hotjoin. Until then you could limit AP gained to official servers. Or if you throw hotjoin away and replace it with unranked queue with the megaserver system that would be even better.

On a side not you should then also add more rewards tied to achievment points. The current rewards aren’t that mind-blowing

Make ranks visible ingame.

This will allow people to show off their efforts even when they’re not playing. You should be able to show your WvW rank too and choose which one you want to show

Prestige leveling

Every 10 levels after 80(same exp as 10 time 70-71 or 79-80 or simply the same as 70-80), you gain the prestige version of the original finisher you earned every 10 levels from 1-80 in the same order. This version could be in Silver or Gold(or another “prestige” color). When you earned everything again(8x prestige) you get a special unique finisher only attainable for the most dedicated gamers. Maybe winning special 3-monthly-tournaments gets you 5 free lvls or so ?

Every 10 levels also awards you with a new title

Every 10 levels you gain you gain some kind of number/sign next to your visible ranks that shows you have “prestiged”(gained another 10 levels after 80)

Titles

Add depth to the champion titles. 150 wins with one profession in a ranked match is not much. Make it something like 150-300-600-1000. I’m not good at finding titles^^ So instead of 1, you have 4 titles same goes for the title that you get for having 100 wins with every profession

If you are going to evolve to a system with tournaments hold automaticly ingame(inscribe through an ingame ladder system), add titles that have to do with ladder wins

Capes

The ultimate achievment, accessible for dedicated players, lower tier not exclusive to the best. A cape that shows your domination in all aspects of PvP. Involves a combination of multiple hard achievments.

These could be also be “progressive” and “improved” at each tier, example of tiers:

-300-600-1000 tournament wins with one profession
-prestige 3- prestige 6- prestige 10
-1x top 10-50(any number) ladder-3x top 10-50(any number) ladder-7x top 10-50(any number)

Tier 1 would be bronze, tier 2 would be silver and tier 3 would be gold TRIMMED. with a small glow on the timming. Make it so that you can put your guild emblem on the cape. Or another immage with possibility to customize the background

Trust me ANET, If you add this to the reward tracks, or simply make it a priority next to game modes, a lot of people would go through the roof

Be sure to not shove balance away with rewards or goals. Balance should always be priority n1 and NEVER masked with rewards/goals

Truly yours,

El Smiley

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

I honestly thought I was the only person in the forum that had this idea as well.

I appreciate that you understand how adding more ranks does not fix the problem that their fixing to begin with, I feel less of a minority now.

Chase.8415:

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

I honestly thought I was the only person in the forum that had this idea as well.

I appreciate that you understand how adding more ranks does not fix the problem that their fixing to begin with, I feel less of a minority now.

I think there are a few more here and there, don’t worry xD

Smiley.5376:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

First and foremost, thank you for creating these megaservers. I had proposed such a thing in the past and i’m SO happy this is finally happening !

Secondly as an anwser to your question:

Short version:
-Achievments
-Visible Ranks
-Prestiged ranks with unique finishers and titles
-Make the champion titles tiered; 150-300-600-1000
-Capes rewarded through a combination of prestige, tournaments wins, and X times in a ladder position

Achievments

Add more achievments. If you want unification of PvP and PvE, you need to make earning AP equal through PvP and PvE, or at least give us more opportunities to earn more AP, since AP Chests give unique rewards.

Killing blows, stomps, revives, captures, healing done, combofields, raw dmg, condi dmg, crits, wins by gamemode, achievments tied to unique map mechanics(differs through gamemodes), the list goes on…

This could acutally only truly be implemented if you apply the megaserver system on pvp hotjoin if you are going to keep hotjoin. Until then you could limit AP gained to official servers. Or if you throw hotjoin away and replace it with unranked queue with the megaserver system that would be even better.

On a side not you should then also add more rewards tied to achievment points. The current rewards aren’t that mind-blowing

Make ranks visible ingame.

This will allow people to show off their efforts even when they’re not playing. You should be able to show your WvW rank too and choose which one you want to show

Prestige leveling

Every 10 levels after 80(same exp as 10 time 70-71 or 79-80 or simply the same as 70-80), you gain the prestige version of the original finisher you earned every 10 levels from 1-80 in the same order. This version could be in Silver or Gold(or another “prestige” color). When you earned everything again(8x prestige) you get a special unique finisher only attainable for the most dedicated gamers. Maybe winning special 3-monthly-tournaments gets you 5 free lvls or so ?

Every 10 levels also awards you with a new title

Every 10 levels you gain you gain some kind of number/sign next to your visible ranks that shows you have “prestiged”(gained another 10 levels after 80)

Titles

Add depth to the champion titles. 150 wins with one profession in a ranked match is not much. Make it something like 150-300-600-1000. I’m not good at finding titles^^ So instead of 1, you have 4 titles same goes for the title that you get for having 100 wins with every profession

If you are going to evolve to a system with tournaments hold automaticly ingame(inscribe through an ingame ladder system), add titles that have to do with ladder wins

Capes

The ultimate achievment, accessible for dedicated players, lower tier not exclusive to the best. A cape that shows your domination in all aspects of PvP. Involves a combination of multiple hard achievments.

These could be also be “progressive” and “improved” at each tier, example of tiers:

-300-600-1000 tournament wins with one profession
-prestige 3- prestige 6- prestige 10
-1x top 10-50(any number) ladder-3x top 10-50(any number) ladder-7x top 10-50(any number)

Tier 1 would be bronze, tier 2 would be silver and tier 3 would be gold TRIMMED. with a small glow on the timming. Make it so that you can put your guild emblem on the cape. Or another immage with possibility to customize the background

Trust me ANET, If you add this to the reward tracks, or simply make it a priority next to game modes, a lot of people would go through the roof

Be sure to not shove balance away with rewards or goals. Balance should always be priority n1 and NEVER masked with rewards/goals

Truly yours,

El Smiley

Thank you for your hard work and creativity to make this suggestion.
This is a great way to deal with progression in pvp.

Hopefully anet is reading this one post.

No problem^^

/15 char

It’s funny how it’s always the same people creating threads over and over again
If you change finishers or create new ones and so on you achieve nothing in spite of continuing with the old system. People still get excluded for lacking experience or rank and players new to the game still have this infinite amount of time achieving an unreachable goal. We should concentrate on a new system of titles, since a champion title takes less thn a lvl up nowadays. I’d suggest a system which rewards team and soloq aswell as being a skilled player, so it actually shows your level and not how much time you have to grind. My suggestion would be getting 1 fame point per win in the top 200 of the leaderboard (can be eather solo or teamq) and new titles like rabbit of the arena (25wins) dragon of the arena (10 000wins). Those could be also applied retroactively for all the people who played on a high skill cap till now.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long terms goals could be a legendary,

I would love being able to work towards a legendary from playing only spvp.

Evan Lesh.3295:

rank 80 (for most people)

Until you reach it so a prestige system could be amazing. Using call of duty as an example you forfeit what you unlocked to do it over again for a different symbol next to your name. Adapting this to gw2 could be you lose your ranked finishers to unlock different colored finishers.

Evan Lesh.3295:

or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

Gw2 needs a much stronger emphasis on skill based rewards I just don’t care about them as it doesn’t effect me.

Evan Lesh.3295:

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see?

I would like the rest of the components needed in making a legendary. If worried about the bltc make a soulbound on acquire version.

Bart Weird.9671:

It’s funny how it’s always the same people creating threads over and over again
If you change finishers or create new ones and so on you achieve nothing in spite of continuing with the old system. People still get excluded for lacking experience or rank and players new to the game still have this infinite amount of time achieving an unreachable goal. We should concentrate on a new system of titles, since a champion title takes less thn a lvl up nowadays. I’d suggest a system which rewards team and soloq aswell as being a skilled player, so it actually shows your level and not how much time you have to grind. My suggestion would be getting 1 fame point per win in the top 200 of the leaderboard (can be eather solo or teamq) and new titles like rabbit of the arena (25wins) dragon of the arena (10 000wins). Those could be also applied retroactively for all the people who played on a high skill cap till now.

The current reward system will not exclude people lacking experience or rank since they are introducing the track reward system. My suggestions only applied on the long term goals/achievments like Evan asked. It was a direct response to his question; long term goals. Also my suggestions are much more acessible to the casual player still becoming better(being worse then top 200).

Your suggestion would be an excellent addition ! Fame points as the base of the most prestigious rewards. But obviously these rewards would be limited to only the best players(top 200) and directly tied to leaderboards.

A couple of rewards that could be tied to an additional fame point system:

-Titles like you suggested; rabit to dragon “of the arena”
-Unique “animal” trophies showable in your guild hall/player home instance(if these ever come)
-Unique Golden/Silver Mini’s(rabit to dragon)
-Unique Animal Emblems to put on your Guild Banner or Cape

What about adding “specialization” legacies after getting to 80. What I mean is that when you get to 80, you ll unlock “rank” bars per prefesion. This bars will go from level 1 to 80 as the normal rank bar. When you win in solo or team queue you will get points for the rank bar for the profession you used for the winning.

Each profession rank bar will have titles and finishers per 10 levels exclusive for that profession rank bar. And when you complete a profession rank bar you will get a special symbol next to your name (as the map completion star). The symbol will change depending on the number of legacies completed.

This system will give players long term goals, but at the same time will allow more casual players a chance to work for specific rewards in a way that doesn’t seem impossible for them. So everyone will have incentives to play.

Everyone here is on the same page on one thing, the rank progression should continue past 80 in some meaningful way, people should be able to differentiate themselves when they get to r80, whether it’s by a number or finisher or title or anything else.

Evan Lesh.3295:

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

Seasons rewards and ladder are very good but soloqueue and teamqueue deserve always a better status and a better attention.

The new rewards track system is very interesting so i’d suggest specific tracks for soloqueue and tournament queue, maybe with exclusive rewards or very good prices for a long term goal like for example a legendary (various components to build a legendary faster than the “classic” general rewards tracks).

Or anoter step can be cumulative titles, instead of a final title for X tournaments won, more titles-milestones and a final title.

mfrelas.9476:

How about extensions of the Champion X titles? SharpShot made an excellent post on how this could be implemented and it would be great incentive for new players and a nice addition for veterans.

I think this is a way better idea for long term goals and titles because it is per profession. People that play one class get rewarded for it.

It’s really odd to me that there wasn’t this type of upheaval months ago when this was announced. It was announced a long time ago. Here’s the quote from Grouch and he is actually repeating something that was said previously and this quote is from a month ago. “We’ve mentioned a few times prior that we’re looking at rebalancing the top-end of ranks to make them more attainable. We came to this decision after player feedback persuaded us to leave ranks into the game, rather than cut them.
The amount of rank points needed to hit 80 is too darn high.”

Here’s the link from that quote: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Change-rank-points-required/first#post3739610

Evan’s post is spot-on. You have people that play a few hours a week and those or play a few hours a day. A time-gated reward feels different to each.

I don’t think many people disliked lowering the requirement for Dragon – just that the new requirement seemed a little too low, especially with how rank point income has increased so much since the removal of glory. It’s disheartening when something that you spent a lot of time that distinguishes yourself and your investment on is now available to many people who put in a lot less effort.

Which brings up another important aspect in competitive play: reward or recognition for skill, not time. Players want a way to show other players that they are better.

If i’m right, Bart talked about it on another thread..
A title rewarding ppl for being the best (like the Champion title system in GW1 for winning matches against 1.200+pts guilds ONLY) and beating the best team would be awesome.
Ofc, that imply a total rework of the leaderboards since it’s nearly impossible to get 10/10 players above r200 in 2 teams due to broken leaderboard & mmr.

So yh, imo a long term title should be working like this, being in the best team & beating the best ppl.
Ppl love that king of titles, and since VERYONE will have a dragon finisher, it will give top [50/100/200?] players an opportunity to get titles that others can’t farm or grind.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I like the sound of skins being a short-term goal. Aw, yeah! PvP Masquerade armor, here I come!

Bart Weird.9671:

It’s funny how it’s always the same people creating threads over and over again
If you change finishers or create new ones and so on you achieve nothing in spite of continuing with the old system. People still get excluded for lacking experience or rank and players new to the game still have this infinite amount of time achieving an unreachable goal. We should concentrate on a new system of titles, since a champion title takes less thn a lvl up nowadays. I’d suggest a system which rewards team and soloq aswell as being a skilled player, so it actually shows your level and not how much time you have to grind. My suggestion would be getting 1 fame point per win in the top 200 of the leaderboard (can be eather solo or teamq) and new titles like rabbit of the arena (25wins) dragon of the arena (10 000wins). Those could be also applied retroactively for all the people who played on a high skill cap till now.

So you have the choice between:

a) Having no more progression goals for long term players who are the most dedicated PvP base (no tying in to the leaderboards), and

b) Having token goals to satisfy us which in no way impact the enjoyment of others in PvP

Are you saying you choose a) over b)? For what reason?