Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deified.7520:

You hit on the main point that we can’t make rewards tracks simply better than PvE farming. They are there as an alternative. Players can go between PvP and PvE and not feel like one section of the game is worth less of their time.

Except… most PvErs think PvP is worth less of their time… This is the problem to begin with. Farming/grinding is easier. Skillful gameplay should be better rewarded, because only then will people think it’s worth going for. It’s a fine balance. I understand how hard it must be.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deified.7520:

You hit on the main point that we can’t make rewards tracks simply better than PvE farming. They are there as an alternative. Players can go between PvP and PvE and not feel like one section of the game is worth less of their time. If you burn out on farming events, come spice things up in PvP and still get rewards!

Reward tracks also give us the ability to put unique rewards into PvP, like we’ve already done. I don’t see a reason why we would stop. It’s an effective way to make people want to play PvP.

We also already have some RNG PvE rewards as guaranteed on reward tracks as well: Mystic clovers.

Also fossilized insects and it seems unlocking the dungeon weapons are faster through PvP than playing dungeons …

One big problem with this is that despite the fact that PvP is better for getting these items people are still not aware of it. Carrots don’t work if people aren’t aware that they exist!

As a casual PvP player and well versed Pve player let me tell you what the problem is. It is not the rewards because we all know dungeons guarantee lots of gold at relatively short time if done correctly with lots of people. So is the open world champ/t6 farm. The problem with PvP is that users get discouraged by Anet’s horrible match making. I’ve won two games in a row in Solo Q, and now I have brand new players on my team while my opponent has 3 engies and 2 rangers. And when you are on a losing streak, you lose and lose because you get teamed up with same people who just lost a match with you or gets carried in a really good team until the losing streak begins again.

People that are telling new players to team Q by him/herself is giving one of the worst ideas ever because they will be demolished by organized team fights and bursts. I play pvp not because of rewards but because of finishers and boredom. And when I lose 6~8 matches in a row, especially with the same teammates in solo Q, there is something wrong with the matchmaking.

No one likes to lose, especially because of having outside factors such as having bad teammates or lags/afkers. But things happen, and while majority of players do agree that those issue can’t be solved by anet, most are enraged by Anet’s attitude; give the money/legendary to top pvp players only and ignore the rest of the playerbase. Its simply this; new players test PvP pool based on few matches, and about 99% of them will have a bad time going against veteran pvp teams.

So solution? come up with a new pvp mode that will only bring temporary players until they get wrecked and abandon pvp all together, or simply come up with better matchmaking for new comers to enjoy. Sadly as of moment there is no middle ground between new players and old players, so to new players like me, we either suck up or quit.

Just making a note that the halloween reward track was not remotely close to pve. The rewards from other tracks were a better path via selling to the same rewards than the halloween track itself. So it was mainly pointless.

Evan Lesh.3295:

I think one problem of reward tracks right now is their discoverability. We released the Maguuma Jungle Region reward track with Dry Top, and it gives you keys for chests, geodes for the unique items on vendors, and new skin components. I personally love this reward track being intertwined with PvE as it creates a great reward loop, but not many people seem to know about since it just appeared and looks like any other region track.

Discoverability is an issue, but there are a lot of people who don’t want to go to the effort of going all the way out to Drytop to cash in these rewards, just so they can buy things from a vendor at their now-most-expensive-price since everyone is in Silverwastes and they can’t get high-tier rewards. Would it be possible to add a vendor in Heart of the Mists which accepts the Geodes? Potentially an item in the last chest of the reward track, that provides a buff and unlocks t6 prices for you and only you? Seems pretty obvious that you can’t have the sandstorm chests just hanging out in Heart of the Mists, and dedicated PvPers definitely don’t want to run around during Sandstorm in a PvE map to use up lockpicks, so I can’t help you there. I don’t even want to do it and I’m much more tolerant of PvE than a lot of others.

The new PvP exclusive armor track was also since reward tracks released, but I’m not sure how many players know about it.

I’ll try not to speak for others, but holy crap I hate the look of the Glorious Armor. And knowing that 40ish games are needed to unlock each piece, x18, make it so unexciting I can’t even put it into words.

I’m sure there are ways to solve the discoverability problem. Our main mechanism right now is feature highlights on release pages, but those aren’t in-game anywhere. Perhaps a story-journal style unlock that alerts you to each new reward track release would be more effective.

There should really be a browser-like popup much like the TP that you can open at any time and read up on the ’what’s new!’ items. Would be great to have patch notes, interesting tidbits, things to look forward to.

Some interesting things being brought up. Thanks everyone for being constructive.

All things being considered, I think pvp has definitely been moving in a positive direction, so I’m optimistic for more improvements ahead.

Lol ANET prob seems to be getting the info out there rather then the quality of the product. I guess thats the better problem to have lol. Back on topic I really do feel that letting you pick from all tracks rather then just 5 at a time and hope one that you like pops up would be a bit nicer. Or maybe just a little rework of the reward system or add better way to categorize them.

Just a thought which is probably not realistic but oh well……t6 reward tracks where players can pick a track based on which t6 mat they want. It would help balance the t6 markets, make pvp much more rewarding, sink gold, bring in pvers to pvp.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deified.7520:

…

There are certainly people who only want to play PvP competitively, and never care about PvE rewards. We are still working on systems that make those players feel rewarded, but right now all of our prestige rewards come from LAN tournaments. Reward tracks are geared more towards the larger audience.

I really like the idea of NPCs walking around to show off the armor. I certainly noticed that in Silverwastes.

Speaking about spvp rewards, i think this game now miss only league&seasons and rewards associated.

We have money for major Tournaments and exclusive armor/finishers, and casual pvp players have a lot of tracks to exp everywhere.

You added new region track (i hope to see the new silverwastes region track soon with something exclusive like maguma track) and glorious armor track more halloween track with a different final reward like we suggested in another topic.

So according with the last step for 2014 pvp roadmap, we need league and seasons and rewards associated.

With league and seasons + reward and a very usefull fix for imbalanced game i think the entire spvp structure would have a very big boost.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Reward tracks also give us the ability to put unique rewards into PvP, like we’ve already done.

WTB tribal armor reward track plz

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deified.7520:

…

There are certainly people who only want to play PvP competitively, and never care about PvE rewards. We are still working on systems that make those players feel rewarded, but right now all of our prestige rewards come from LAN tournaments. Reward tracks are geared more towards the larger audience.

I really like the idea of NPCs walking around to show off the armor. I certainly noticed that in Silverwastes.

I feel like there’s a mid ground that doesn’t get rewarded though. I don’t care about PvE rewards and I don’t have a dedicated enough team to get high end PvP prestige rewards. At this point, I literally throw my reward chests away without opening them. I wish there were automated tournaments that we could just jump into and try just off the cuff, rather than sign up for one that’s happening weeks from now and has all this set up. I don’t have the time to be setting up teams, practicing and creating space in my schedule to go to full on multi-week tournaments that we’ll probably lose.

Evan Lesh.3295:

There are certainly people who only want to play PvP competitively, and never care about PvE rewards. We are still working on systems that make those players feel rewarded, but right now all of our prestige rewards come from LAN tournaments.

Rewards for the Top 3 is not enough. We need prestige rewards for the Top 10%, Top 5% and Top 1% of the PvP playerbase.

You hit on the main point that we can’t make rewards tracks simply better than PvE farming. They are there as an alternative. Players can go between PvP and PvE and not feel like one section of the game is worth less of their time.

You don’t have to make them better, how about starting to put them on the same level? PvP rewards are less worth compared to PvE rewards.

Reward tracks also give us the ability to put unique rewards into PvP, like we’ve already done. I don’t see a reason why we would stop. It’s an effective way to make people want to play PvP.

The rewards from the tracks are on the same level as the Carapace Armor from the living story. The only resource you have to put in to get them is just time.

Now comparing with the Luminescent Armor: It has more specific requirements to obtain it, but it still is not a prestige item, since everybody can obtain it.

We also already have some RNG PvE rewards as guaranteed on reward tracks as well: Mystic clovers.

Good Job, they are the most useless item I get out of the reward tracks!

To Sum up:
1.) Bringing the PvP rewards on par with PvE rewards:
Suggestion: Double the silver obtained from winning a match.

2.) Introduce a tier rating system, which you have to first climb up, to obtain some prestige rewards. Each tier you reach unlocks a new rewards track with a prestige item at the end. F.e. Bronze rewards track unlocks the gloves; Diamond unlocks the shoulders.

Farming for a legendary of 3000 gold in pve costs about 300 hours at a 10g/h spot which is available a lot in pve

For PvP it will take some time longer, let’s say you get 25s each win and like rng wise 25s from boxes per win on average. 50s each time 300000s/50s = winning 6000 games. Let’s say a game including queue takes about 15min 6000×15= 90000min/60 = 1500 hours
So:
PvE = 300 hours
PvP = 1500 hours (of NONSTOP WINNING)

So it only takes 500% more time in PvP (if you win 6000 games in a row) so it is probably between 500% and 1000% more time, kinda explains why no one wants to do PvP for the rewards

some people do it for achievments but that is limited as well once you hit rank 80 that pritty much over

I am primarily a PvE player but I do come to sPvP from time to time. I’ve read through this thread and I’d like to voice my experience with this topic.

1. I PvP mainly for the reward tracks. I don’t think it’s easier to get the weapons or armor through the reward tracks. For me it takes much more time to unlock those weapons by PvP than PvE. I did the Glorious Track long enough to get the heavy shoulders since that was the only part of any of the set that I felt was worth it. There is currently 0 chance I will ever get anything worthwhile while I PvP. Mystic Clovers? Don’t make me laugh. I get more Ecto and Skill points from a single Fractal than I do in a weekend of PvP. And I can buy the mystic coins for pennies. The rewards I like? The tomes of knowledge.

2. People don’t know about tracks because I’ve been asked several times “What shoulders are those?”

3. Matchmaking BLOWS. I’m not a terrible PvPer nor am I the best but I’ve stopped joining the team matches because getting rofl stomped 8 matches in a row doesn’t inspiring me to come back the next day for more PvP. I actually don’t team PvP anymore unless I get a full crew of people who I know aren’t laughably poor at PvP just so we can have a real fight, not a landslide.

4. The tracks are BARELY an alternative. They feel incredibly unrewarding. The same content can be unlocked at much faster rate though PvE. If you wanted the tracks to be appealing you would have made them on the same par as getting their rewards as PvE. Best example the Halloween Track that I’m sure no one even activated. 30 minutes in the Lab and you have enough Candy Corn for a Pail. I decked all the characters I play with 20 (upgrades from 12) slot bags. If you had at the end put a choice of Gift at the end you bet I would have been murdering in PvP rather than grinding in the Lab. I would have murdered so much my armor would still be stained if I even got a random gift at the end. All I wanted that whole event was the Ghost Dog and Gift of Souls. I got neither, despite spending all my free time in the lab. If any PvP person asked about the pail I’d have told them to go to the lab for 30 minutes, you couldn’t get the Halloween track finished in 30 mins.

What would bring me to PvP more? And enjoy it? Better PvP exclusive content. Design up some attractive new armor. Maybe use some analytics? What armors are people wearing? Query your data. Then design some armors that might fit that silhouette. Make the Tracks less of a grind. 50ish games for a skin unlock, or 50ish mins dungeon running, hmm. Please bring a calculator the next time you add a reward track so you an truly make it rewarding for the effort.

I’m level 50 Fractal delver. Give me an unlocked Fractal Track to pick the Fractal skin I want! Months and months all I’ve wanted was a Fractal Sword. Nope. I get 3 Greatswords. Better yet turn those into a weapon chest so I can just pick what I want.

Thanks Ryvorn for that insight and unique perspective! One of the suggestions I originally brought up was an increase in tomes from the region tracks. Making PvPing an alternative to map-completion and leveling alternates would bring in a lot of people.

Since devs have entered this topic, it has grown in discussion. I’ll be updating the original post to reflect some more ideas on how to possibly improve the reward system and bring PvErs into PvP. Keeping it neat and tidy only helps to communicate more clearly with the devs.

PvP rewards should be raised 500% so that if you win non stop, you should earn the same amount to a pve player casually grinding. Of course, normally people only win 50% of the games, so PvP reward will be half of that of pve. Right now, PvP rewards are too little, like 10x worse than pve, if you factor in the win/lose rate.

If you want exclusive skins, finishers and a ton of fun, PvP is the place to be. If you already have all the finishers and skins from PvP and only want a legendary, nnnnnggggggg, you’re kittened.

The only way I can see that being “fixed” is through awarding PvP badges that can be exchanged for crafting bags and such.

Evan Lesh.3295:

You hit on the main point that we can’t make rewards tracks simply better than PvE farming. They are there as an alternative. Players can go between PvP and PvE and not feel like one section of the game is worth less of their time. If you burn out on farming events, come spice things up in PvP and still get rewards!

Bro, Ive always considered you as one of those devs like Grouch that are being liked by the community for w/e reasons. No offense but u dont know anything about what PvEr and PvPer stand for. There’s no such animal like PvX.

And about the reward tracks? Average dungeon path run takes 15 mins and you get: Tokens + Loot + Champ bags + end game bonus once per day (minimum of 1 gold?) +Exp that pretty much gives u sure 1 skill point. Gotta add here the moment where PvErs skip half of ur content (not exploiting it, its legit, dungeons mechanics are like this)

Average PvP match (regardless SoloQ or TeamQ) takes 10 mins and you get: >1<,no wait, I’ll say it again >ONE< tome of knowledge IF you win… oh,ye and some silver.

See, all these Tomes of Knoledge made me so knowledgable….right?

Cmon bro, u cant be blind for all this…

Evan Lesh.3295:

Are there rewards that people would want or don’t feel are earned fast enough that don’t directly generate gold?

Unique Miniatures [Account Bound on acquisition]
Unique Toys
Unique Emotes

Elaboration of the above:
Unique Miniatures:
-Mini Zhaitan, [rare drop from Arah Dungeon Track boxes] (not 0.000000001%)
-Mini Red & Blue Lords [rare drop from Glorious Track Boxes](not 0.0000001%)

Unique Toys:
-Mini Catapult
Costume Brawl toy, allows you to do long range damage in costume brawl
-Mini Sky Hammer
Costume Brawl toy, allows you to do massive aoe in costume brawl
-Dueling Dummy
Spawns a random class doll to spar with you. Can be used any where that allows the use of weapon skills. The dummy will only attack those who attack it, vanishes if player dies with a funny message.
-Fishing Pole, allows you to play a mini fishing game or fish in the open world
All of these can be tossed into a “Glorious Toy Box” track. The final reward in that
track will allow a player to chose one of those items. Track would be repeatable.

Unique Emotes:
After completing the glorious track:
x1
x6
x12
x18
times, you will unlock new emotes. Similar to the ones from GW1
/glorious
would be the command, a shield would pop up with your rank’s animal
emblazoned across the front of it.

x1=Bronze Shield with your rank on it (bunny, dragon etc)
x6= Bronze Shield with 1 sword with your rank on it (bunny, dragon etc)
x12= Silver shield with 2 swords with your rank on it (bunny, dragon etc)
x18= Gold shield with 2 swords with your rank on it (bunny, dragon etc) and a crown over the shield.

Could even bring the Zaishen Keys and Chest to Guild Wars 2.
Make every end chest contain 1 Zaishen Key. [armor boxs or equivalent]
Zaishen Keys would be account bound, a chest would be placed where the Dragon Totem Vendor use to be. Some loot from the chest can be any of the toys or minis mentioned above as well as any one of the below:

-Random 1 Exotic Weapon
-Random 1 Endless Tonic
-3 Laurels
-10 Obsidian Shards
-Legacy GW1 Endless Tonic (Tonics from the GW1 Zaishen Chest)
-GW1 Envoy Weapon Set

I know some people hate RNG, but I like the idea that Wolfey gives. Adding unique miniatures and toys inside of reward track boxes would also give people an incentive to play different reward tracks multiple times. However, Lyssa doesn’t bless everyone with luck. I can see frustration causing some raging…

I also LOVE the idea of giving us new emotes via PvP tracks!! A /glorious emote would have to be something outrageously flamboyant and righteous. lol

These are some great ideas. The first page is updated.

It should be obvious there are players that play multiple game modes given how sharply the PvP population rose when the unique backpack skin was made available. I do it from time to time out of boredom because if there’s one area the devs spend even less time and energy at than PvP it’s WvW.

In my opinion, the reward tracks take too long to work through. I’d prefer each track was quicker and non-repeatable for that week/month and a ‘filler’ track was introduced that never ended that just awarded the random rewards like skill points, levels, and reagents between the resets.

PvP just isn’t fun for me because I don’t like conquest mode (prefer CTF), I only play with my brother and close friend and we don’t enjoy sitting in team queue for 10mins between games, and there’s nothing to do with the PvP rewards than PvP with them as the game mode is too isolated from the rest of the game.

Evan Lesh.3295:

I disagree, there are certainly players that play multiple game modes. There are also PvE players that would play PvP, but just don’t know anything about it. I see this feedback every time we do a visible event which causes people to play PvP for the first time.

I know about this feedback. But PvE focused guy joining fast paced game like gw2,not gonna adapted for months. People joining pvp for first time experience certain aspect of the pvp game (not only gw2 thing) they most prolly wont enjoy and its easy to miss the main goal of pvp.
Can say similar things about pvp player going into pve – repetitive, too easy, no excitement and boring are often mentioned as “reasons”, there are more tho, diffinately.

This is really,really long topic but what you have right now in the game, favours those you mention above/casual player but it doesnt those who play pvp/pve alone.

Hope I made it clear.

Yes, to say that PvErs don’t play PvP at all is ludicrous. There are cross over players. And like the above poster said, there was an OBVIOUS influx of PvErs when the Balthazar back piece came out. I remember my friends were very happy, because the poor match making put us against these same PvErs. That was back when I was on the leader board. lol At the same token, it was frustrating having them on my team…but that’s what happens when the pvp population is so small.

As the thread title suggests, ANET knows how to bring PvErs into PvP. The issue is keeping them invested and not allowing burnout to occur far quicker than what is normal.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The amount of rewards produced via reward tracks have to be balanced very carefully with the amount of sinks in the game mode. Having a relatively fixed-rate of progress for all players also makes for unique balancing. This is why we need rewards that are skill-based.

I agree on skill based rewards. Question is how we can put that in mode that would satisfy people. Leagues (which I fully acknowledge that you’ve said you guys are working on it)/seasons are one way to do this. Something maybe akin to WvW seasons where you can form like your own little teams and they have their own ratings (changing members would cause this rating to go away or be punished to avoid “taxis”). Maybe do something on Guild Sponsored teams you guys mentioned a while ago. Based on your win percentage or something means you get different rewards.

You can maybe look into a daily setup. Like a daily “bonuses”. Say you put in a daily achievement for playing 10 games or something like that. If you win 8 of those games, then you get a bonus. Or perhaps if you play 10 games or above and have a certain win percentage by reset, you get a reward. Something like that.

Streaks are another then you could look into. Maybe if a team wins X amount of games in a row in the rated modes, then they perhaps get “streak” bonuses. Rewards could be titles, minis, etc.

Jinx.7258:

…

I think Evan is a great developer and I greatly appreciate him actually talking to us and keeping up developer communication. I can see the reasons of why some of the choices were made in sPvP reward tracks. I think the reward tracks are made that way so that 1, they don’t destroy the economy. They also are there as a way to make playing sPvP less punishing to character progression in all other game modes. To ease the change from going from PvE into sPvP and vice versa. I don’t think its wise to make sPvP more rewarding than PvE or close to it. They do that we could have a problem with people farming and afking. However, as Evan said, we need more skill based rewards and perhaps more PvEr exposure to reward tracks and what they give.

Also Evan I’d like to take this time to bring up a small issue with Reward tracks. If you go into a game, you can the sub rewards. However outside of the game you can’t seee the subrewards (tomes of knowledge, transmutation charges, etc). I feel like that those two things (tomes of knowledge and trans charges) can perhaps be one of the bigger enticements for none PvPers to want to play PvE. Way to get charges and to level up. Perhaps maybe add some way for players to see that these rewards exist without them having to go into a game?

MailMail.6534:

Yes, to say that PvErs don’t play PvP at all is ludicrous. There are cross over players. And like the above poster said, there was an OBVIOUS influx of PvErs when the Balthazar back piece came out. I remember my friends were very happy, because the poor match making put us against these same PvErs. That was back when I was on the leader board. lol At the same token, it was frustrating having them on my team…but that’s what happens when the pvp population is so small.

Ppl crossing game modes for 2 days doesnt change anything. I dont enjoy any game’s pve section. Yet, I do it coz i have to – gear dependable games, i want legendaries in this one, guild makes me have different gear/weapons + sigils/runes + bunch of other stuff we need for different activities.

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

To me, the sPvP system was in its ideal state when the game launched. It did not interact in any way with the rest of the game, and that was perfect. It’s since been made worse and worse, making it so that in some ways, those who PvP regularly can get a leg up on PvE players due to the different reward structure. If you enjoy PvP, that’s great, go ahead and PvP, but stop trying to lure PvE players over to the dark side with bribery, we don’t want to go.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Silverwastes is also in the Maguuma region, so I hope we go back and update the reward track with the new rewards like bandit crests, keys, and shovels.

The sooner the better. I have little interest in new PvE content any more, and as of right now I have no interest in the Maguuma Track as it stands.

Also, about PvP events held to lure PvE players in for their first time, I am sure you have discussed at some point a PvP bonus (buff) event every weekend? The one that was only done during the tournament weekends. I don’t see why that isn’t available every weekend.

There needs to be weekend events across all modes of game play, but that is another topic altogether.

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

Disagree. I also would like to see the previous PvP armor rewards added back in via a new reward track.

Jinx.7258:

MailMail.6534:

Yes, to say that PvErs don’t play PvP at all is ludicrous. There are cross over players. And like the above poster said, there was an OBVIOUS influx of PvErs when the Balthazar back piece came out. I remember my friends were very happy, because the poor match making put us against these same PvErs. That was back when I was on the leader board. lol At the same token, it was frustrating having them on my team…but that’s what happens when the pvp population is so small.

Ppl crossing game modes for 2 days doesnt change anything. I dont enjoy any game’s pve section. Yet, I do it coz i have to – gear dependable games, i want legendaries in this one, guild makes me have different gear/weapons + sigils/runes + bunch of other stuff we need for different activities.

Outside of the Living Story updates once every two weeks (it’s GREAT this year), I’m also a pvp purist. This is besides the point, and I think your argument belongs in another thread. This thread here is about bringing PvE players into the PvP format and keeping them here.

Jinx.7258:

Evan Lesh.3295:

I disagree, there are certainly players that play multiple game modes. There are also PvE players that would play PvP, but just don’t know anything about it. I see this feedback every time we do a visible event which causes people to play PvP for the first time.

I know about this feedback. But PvE focused guy joining fast paced game like gw2,not gonna adapted for months. People joining pvp for first time experience certain aspect of the pvp game (not only gw2 thing) they most prolly wont enjoy and its easy to miss the main goal of pvp.
Can say similar things about pvp player going into pve – repetitive, too easy, no excitement and boring are often mentioned as “reasons”, there are more tho, diffinately.

This is really,really long topic but what you have right now in the game, favours those you mention above/casual player but it doesnt those who play pvp/pve alone.

Hope I made it clear.

well i logged in just so i could say you’re wrong. i play mostly PvE, but i enjoy PvPing every now and then and do fairly well at it. i also keep up with all the PvP events.

your mistake is thinking people have a singular taste in games and there’s no way there can be an overlay. i can enjoy exploration and story for a few hours, then decide that i wanna kill some players now.

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

To me, the sPvP system was in its ideal state when the game launched. It did not interact in any way with the rest of the game, and that was perfect. It’s since been made worse and worse, making it so that in some ways, those who PvP regularly can get a leg up on PvE players due to the different reward structure. If you enjoy PvP, that’s great, go ahead and PvP, but stop trying to lure PvE players over to the dark side with bribery, we don’t want to go.

I say this with as much tact as possible (which I guess isn’t much), but you are a lunatic for this statement. PvP players will NEVER get a leg up on PvErs. Look at the last 2 years. Case closed.

I implore you to read this thread and understand the math given on the difference between dungeon running and dungeon reward tracks. How is this a leg up on PvErs? Reward tracks in their current state rewards those few PvErs who max out dungeon runs then come over to PvP to get more non-diminishing returns on dungeon rewards.

A lot of PvErs enjoy the idea of PvPing, but the implementation is what’s not keeping them there. Also, the pvp community is notorious for being toxic. That also doesn’t help. To get back on track, PvErs would stay in PvP if the rewards were worth it to them. That’s simply a fact.

MailMail.6534:

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

To me, the sPvP system was in its ideal state when the game launched. It did not interact in any way with the rest of the game, and that was perfect. It’s since been made worse and worse, making it so that in some ways, those who PvP regularly can get a leg up on PvE players due to the different reward structure. If you enjoy PvP, that’s great, go ahead and PvP, but stop trying to lure PvE players over to the dark side with bribery, we don’t want to go.

I say this with as much tact as possible (which I guess isn’t much), but you are a lunatic for this statement. PvP players will NEVER get a leg up on PvErs. Look at the last 2 years. Case closed.

I implore you to read this thread and understand the math given on the difference between dungeon running and dungeon reward tracks. How is this a leg up on PvErs? Reward tracks in their current state rewards those few PvErs who max out dungeon runs then come over to PvP to get more non-diminishing returns on dungeon rewards.

A lot of PvErs enjoy the idea of PvPing, but the implementation is what’s not keeping them there. Also, the pvp community is notorious for being toxic. That also doesn’t help. To get back on track, PvErs would stay in PvP if the rewards were worth it to them. That’s simply a fact.

To be fair, this game is seperated into 3 parts, not 2. WvW, while typically rolled into PvE conversations, is a rather unique and isolated game mode in and of itself.

There honestly shouldn’t be unique rewards for PvP. They should be shared with WvW and since skill plays a much smaller part than simple time invested, I can’t think of any logical reason for there to be a split.

I wish they had a system where they kept the glory and allowed you to pick what you want to spend your glory on, like Glorious armor set. Or just champ loot boxes. Or level up scrolls.

Hate having to be forced into one track.

Still kittened I lost 500,000 glory, equivalent to 50 reward tracks in my mind.
I should get 50 free reward tracks.
Also those 500 match win reward chests I had that went poof because I didn’t open and they got rid of them.
Another 50 reward tracks I should be given.

I know people keep telling me anet gave you a warning 3 months in advance, but I wasn’t playing during that time to hear a warning, also I don’t recall anyone saying anything about any warning dealing with match win reward chests going poof.

They should reimburse me with 100 completed reward tracks of my choice.

Atherakhia.4086:

To be fair, this game is seperated into 3 parts, not 2. WvW, while typically rolled into PvE conversations, is a rather unique and isolated game mode in and of itself.

There honestly shouldn’t be unique rewards for PvP. They should be shared with WvW and since skill plays a much smaller part than simple time invested, I can’t think of any logical reason for there to be a split.

Are you really suggesting WvW is skill based? It is just zerg v zerg for the overwhelming population of WvW participants. Also, do you really consider EotM the same mode as WvW? EotM is just a farm train environment, again for the overwhelming population of participants.

I do agree WvW could use it’s own set of reward tracks and it needs far better loot than it currently has, but again this isn’t the thread for that discussion.

What do you mean shared with WvW? That would be hard to do logistically. Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous. Now, if you think WvW should have unique rewards, then again, that’s another thread.

I’m not a wvwer, but I do think it takes skill. Zerging is not hard to do, but coordination of players is. No one should know this better than a pvper. I don’t think WvW should receive any haterade from us PvPers.

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

Agreed.
No unique PvE rewards too btw.

I would like to feel free to play in PvE or PvP to get the reward I want.
I’m coerce to play a mode I don’t like to got reward I like.

I don’t enjoy sPvP but I need the glorious armor chest and shoulder to complete the skin of my guardian.

Result : I’m not happy with the game because I don’t play a mode I like and teamate blame me because I’m not doing the best I can.

MailMail.6534:

Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous.

‘I didn’t get reward for more than a year then now other players won’t get one ! hihi’
Seriously, I read this reaction a lot and it is sad.

Even the rewards in both PvP & PvE & WvW and everyone will be fine.

I implore you to read this thread and understand the math given on the difference between dungeon running and dungeon reward tracks. How is this a leg up on PvErs? Reward tracks in their current state rewards those few PvErs who max out dungeon runs then come over to PvP to get more non-diminishing returns on dungeon rewards.

There are certain items that can only be earned through PvP reward tracks, or that are guaranteed drops via the reward tracks while RNG drops through other paths, such as Unidentified Fossils. These can be leg-ups. Adding more rewards of this type would make things even worse.

I’m by no means saying that the current PvP rewards as a whole could not use work, if some elements are lagging behind then it’d be ok to buff them up a bit, but there should be nothing that can be earned through PvP that cannot be earned though PvE, and nothing that can be earned easier that way.

A lot of PvErs enjoy the idea of PvPing, but the implementation is what’s not keeping them there. Also, the pvp community is notorious for being toxic. That also doesn’t help. To get back on track, PvErs would stay in PvP if the rewards were worth it to them. That’s simply a fact.

You can bribe players to do just about anything, but that doesn’t mean they’ll enjoy it. I just do not enjoy PvP. Nothing would make me enjoy PvP. Better rewards might get me to play PvP, for a time, but I would be enjoying my time in game a lot less, and therefore be more likely to burn out on the game entirely. Not every PvEer is a PvPer in waiting, that’s simply a myth.

purecontact.1680:

Ohoni.6057:

NO UNIQUE PVP REWARDS.

Agreed.
No unique PvE rewards too btw.

I would like to feel free to play in PvE or PvP to get the reward I want.
I’m coerce to play a mode I don’t like to got reward I like.

I don’t enjoy sPvP but I need the glorious armor chest and shoulder to complete the skin of my guardian.

Result : I’m not happy with the game because I don’t play a mode I like and teamate blame me because I’m not doing the best I can.

MailMail.6534:

Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous.

‘I didn’t get reward for more than a year then now other players won’t get one ! hihi’
Seriously, I read this reaction a lot and it is sad.

Even the rewards in both PvP & PvE & WvW and everyone will be fine.

I’m not saying certain players shouldn’t be rewarded. I’m saying how dare someone suggest PvPers not be rewarded when we’ve already earn that title. “Been There Done That”

There are certain items that can only be earned through PvP reward tracks, or that are guaranteed drops via the reward tracks while RNG drops through other paths, such as Unidentified Fossils. These can be leg-ups. Adding more rewards of this type would make things even worse.

Makes things worse for who??? lol

there should be nothing that can be earned through PvP that cannot be earned though PvE, and nothing that can be earned easier that way.

I’m really surprised that some people feel this way. Are you aware that there are many things in PvE that can be earned ONLY in PvE and easier in that format than in WvW or PvP? Do I need to list them?

Not every PvEer is a PvPer in waiting, that’s simply a myth.

This is true, but I’m speaking for the many PvE friends I have who would enjoy PvP if the rewards drew them in more. No one is trying to make PvE players into hardcore pvpers. That’s not the case, and won’t be the case. The point is that there is a large group of casual players that would participate in pvp if the rewards were better. That’s all I’m saying.

GOSU.9574:

Atherakhia.4086:

To be fair, this game is seperated into 3 parts, not 2. WvW, while typically rolled into PvE conversations, is a rather unique and isolated game mode in and of itself.

There honestly shouldn’t be unique rewards for PvP. They should be shared with WvW and since skill plays a much smaller part than simple time invested, I can’t think of any logical reason for there to be a split.

Are you really suggesting WvW is skill based? It is just zerg v zerg for the overwhelming population of WvW participants. Also, do you really consider EotM the same mode as WvW? EotM is just a farm train environment, again for the overwhelming population of participants.

I do agree WvW could use it’s own set of reward tracks and it needs far better loot than it currently has, but again this isn’t the thread for that discussion.

Not at all what I’m saying. All I’m saying is the rewards received in PvP have about as much to do with skill as those received in WvW (…none…). It’s all a grind, and if it’s never going to amount to more, why not just share the rewards between systems?

MailMail.6534:

What do you mean shared with WvW? That would be hard to do logistically. Let me remind you that PvP players didn’t start receiving legit rewards until last Wintersday 2013… Suggesting that PvP shouldn’t have unique rewards is ludicrous. Now, if you think WvW should have unique rewards, then again, that’s another thread.

I’m not a wvwer, but I do think it takes skill. Zerging is not hard to do, but coordination of players is. No one should know this better than a pvper. I don’t think WvW should receive any haterade from us PvPers.

WvW players haven’t started receiving legit rewards since… ever. I’m simply saying that the rewards they’re providing in PvP have less to do with skill and more to do with time invested and there’s little reason they can’t be shared between modes.

I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree that PvP rewards have nothing to do with skill. Ideally if both teams have 5 players, it does take skill to win.

PvP rewards are shared with PvE. The things like insect fossils take more time and skill and aren’t RNG based. Also, if you’re concerned about PvP exclusive items, you should be concerned about PvE exclusive items that are easier to get. I see nothing wrong with that considering you could open ONE chest and get your insect right then and there. There aren’t any for WvW rewards I guess you’re saying? I honestly wouldn’t know, but that’s outside the point of this thread, and we should probably stay focused.

Makes things worse for who??? lol

For people who don’t PvP and don’t want to feel that they’re missing out on unique rewards or wasting their time on RNG when non-RNG methods are available only through PvP.

I’m really surprised that some people feel this way. Are you aware that there are many things in PvE that can be earned ONLY in PvE and easier in that format than in WvW or PvP? Do I need to list them?

That’s a separate discussion. If you want access to those rewards through PvP, and were willing to engage in a similar amount of time and effort to earn them, then I would have no problem with that. I have no objection to PvPers fairly earning all the same rewards as PvEers if they want, only to PvP offering rewards unavailable to PvEers, or through methods that are considerably easier/more reliable.

This is true, but I’m speaking for the many PvE friends I have who would enjoy PvP if the rewards drew them in more. No one is trying to make PvE players into hardcore pvpers. That’s not the case, and won’t be the case. The point is that there is a large group of casual players that would participate in pvp if the rewards were better. That’s all I’m saying.

I don’t know how large that group is, but I’m arguing for those players who would never want to PvP, regardless of the rewards, but that would feel deprived of having those rewards if they could only earn them via PvP.

— emphasized mine

The amount of rewards produced via reward tracks have to be balanced very carefully with the amount of sinks in the game mode. Having a relatively fixed-rate of progress for all players also makes for unique balancing. This is why we need rewards that are skill-based.

I disagree. When you have better reward and more PvE players come to PvP, it’s actually a gold sink for you. Every player have a limited amount of time. The more time that they spend in PvP (even with the 500% increased above), the less time they spend in PvE. It’s a big sink for you because they won’t be getting the absurd amount of money in PvE anymore.

What I think GW2 should really do is to make the expected rewards for PvP about half of that PvE, so we can get more people who gets bored of PvE farming to come and spend time in PvP, thus reducing the total amount of gold generated in GW2, while expanding the PvP community.

How about placing an NPC with a new icon in the “main” map for each region, and the NPC would tell you about what you could earn in that region’s track. He would also queue you and return you without having to go through the PvP Panel. Like the activity npc, kinda?

Acgsev.6931:

How about placing an NPC with a new icon in the “main” map for each region, and the NPC would tell you about what you could earn in that region’s track. He would also queue you and return you without having to go through the PvP Panel. Like the activity npc, kinda?

That. is. a. wonderful. idea.

I’d say all the 1-15 areas, Straights of Devestation, and both Drytop and Silverwastes would be a good start. Could expand it also to outside each dungeon, as well.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Jinx.7258:

Bro, Ive always considered you as one of those devs like Grouch that are being liked by the community for w/e reasons. No offense but u dont know anything about what PvEr and PvPer stand for. There’s no such animal like PvX.

I disagree, there are certainly players that play multiple game modes. There are also PvE players that would play PvP, but just don’t know anything about it. I see this feedback every time we do a visible event which causes people to play PvP for the first time.

i agree with Evan
i disagree with Jinx

i am a casual player that plays both PvE (nowadays living story only) and sPvP (nowadays hotjoin only, did some 100+ team arena games in the previous months)

only do WvW once in a while though.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The new PvP exclusive armor track was also since reward tracks released,

And it’s a great armor, thanks to the developers
I made a full set for their necromancers, Just below the screens.

Evan Lesh.3295:

but I’m not sure how many players know about it.

Unfortunately little. No advertising, and not every player will go to the wiki look for, what is this new track

Deified.7520:

Have a 2-3 NPCs stand around in a high population area. Maybe walk aroudn the area. Like around the bank/TP. They are dressed in the glorious armor and perhaps say stuff about PvP. Like the "Mist warriors" do about WvW. Players can go up and talk to them and see information about PvP and the reward tracks and such.

And here is the perfect solution to the problem

Evan Lesh.3295:

I disagree, there are certainly players that play multiple game modes. There are also PvE players that would play PvP, but just don’t know anything about it. I see this feedback every time we do a visible event which causes people to play PvP for the first time.

I’d assume a lot of PvE players who try sPvP for the first time hop into a custom game because they dont feel anywhere ready for a team-arena.
Custom games are the bane of sPvP. It happened to me aswell. After my first 3-4 custom games with 3vs5 matchups, unfair teams, winner team joiners and just generally uncoordinated play I felt this game-mode was garbage and left it aside for a good 3 months until I took another look at it with a full premade team.

Now, thats a lot of fun, then.
Custom arenas need some real attention. Prevent winner team joining, make a game only start ranked once 10 players have gathered. Before that its more of a team deathmatch without consequences.

Talking unique rewards, please Evan, make stalwart happen again. I am missing my stalwart shoulders!