Guild Wars 2

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

but if you wanna make us all the same, i wouldnt mind my turrets as hard as phantasm ! or ply bar becoming the new backstab! double dmg from behind!

JinDaVikk.7291:

Actually your wrong lonely…

Takes me under a second to find real mesmer. And Yes its easy to guess when they are stealthed.

I can too, depend on which profession too and how much clutter is on screen. Dueling i always know who is the mesmer, in a team fight, you can’t instantly tell who is who unless he moves, so i am not wrong.

google.3709:

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

but if you wanna make us all the same, i wouldnt mind my turrets as hard as phantasm ! or ply bar becoming the new backstab! double dmg from behind!

Turret are harder than phantasm untraited and semi traited, so i don’t see the point comparing to a worst pet. Would you like to trade that squishyness and uselessness with a thief other that dps and selfish stealth, i wouldn’t mind. It up to Anet on these stuff.

LonelyReaper.8075:

google.3709:

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

but if you wanna make us all the same, i wouldnt mind my turrets as hard as phantasm ! or ply bar becoming the new backstab! double dmg from behind!

Turret are harder than phantasm untreated and semi treated, so i don’t see the point comparing to a worst pet. Would you like to trade that squishyness and uselessness with a thief other that dps and selfish stealth, i wouldn’t mind. It up to Anet on these stuff.

just by that comment you just lost all credibility LOL! you really don’t play engi >.>

and if my ply bar could crit for 10k, i would consider it :P

@LonelyReaper

Gesus you don’t understand it, I think Toss Elixir R is an amazing skill, what I wanted to point out for you, which you cleary don’t get.

Is that the more kits you take, the less utility skills you can take to cover weak points. I didn’t ask for all Tool Belt Ability or Utility to be a stun break, I never said that. THe point I made was if you run with 4 Kits you will have:
No Stun Break, No Condition Removal (Unless Elixir Gun which remove one on skill 5), and no real acces to Boons. Now, I do think that’s quite balanced for having that many Weapon Kit’s, but the Price is there, I play a very very dangerous way if running that.

And you are wrong, from every logical view, because you try to balance every proffession around the same core principels, which you can’t.
if we get 5 second CD on swaps, why shouldn’t the rest of the proffessions only have 5 second CD on the swap? Or at least a Trait that gives them that? why can a necromancer run full minions and have acces to his Proffesion Mechanic, while I can’t? and Why can a Ranger and Memser have Pet/Clones and still have other Utility? The way you try justify a nerf that ain’t nessacry is simple wrong.

The Weapon kit’s function on a very different way then other weapons, and hence it can’t be compared the way you do…

also, LOOOL at your Turret Comment hahaha

He really don’t. Dude I’ve TRIED to make turrets work but you didnt read my last post. ENGINEERS HAVE TO TAKE A CONDI REMOVAL.

so 2 utils.

so next… weapon kit or turret? as turrets are single target and suck…. WEAPON KIT!
o look 1 util left…

look turrets need traited. Even then aoe kills them fast.
rifle turret is single target that I cant chose. Low damage
net turret is op in 1v1’s. tpvp isnt 1v1….
thumper? what a stupid joke.
flame… like thumper but will die faster.
yea…. give us engis like 6 util skills then maybe I’ll being turrets too!

google.3709:

LonelyReaper.8075:

google.3709:

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

but if you wanna make us all the same, i wouldnt mind my turrets as hard as phantasm ! or ply bar becoming the new backstab! double dmg from behind!

Turret are harder than phantasm untreated and semi treated, so i don’t see the point comparing to a worst pet. Would you like to trade that squishyness and uselessness with a thief other that dps and selfish stealth, i wouldn’t mind. It up to Anet on these stuff.

just by that comment you just lost all credibility LOL! you really don’t play engi >.>

and if my ply bar could crit for 10k, i would consider it :P

I play engi is just the perception of who is saying it. My thief required 3hit+ on a turret and my theif only 1 or 2 hit a phantasm mesmer’s phantasm to kill it, so it all about perception, so i wouldn’t call it i haven’t play an engineer , is that you haven’t played other class against an untraited turret.

Would you like to lose all your epic condition spam and block and no boons for what thief can offer?

JinDaVikk.7291:

He really don’t. Dude I’ve TRIED to make turrets work but you didnt read my last post. ENGINEERS HAVE TO TAKE A CONDI REMOVAL.

so 2 utils.

so next… weapon kit or turret? as turrets are single target and suck…. WEAPON KIT!
o look 1 util left…

look turrets need traited. Even then aoe kills them fast.
rifle turret is single target that I cant chose. Low damage
net turret is op in 1v1’s. tpvp isnt 1v1….
thumper? what a stupid joke.
flame… like thumper but will die faster.
yea…. give us engis like 6 util skills then maybe I’ll being turrets too!

Mesmer have to take no condition remover in tpvp for team and 1 stun breaker, theif only have 1 condition remover, no1 say turret is powerful. So when did what i reply to google became at you.

Lonely….

We dont know how much damage you do so just cause your p/d condi doesnt mean anything.

next mesmers can gives phantasms double the hp….. plus shares mesmers toughness…..

Also 1 phantasm = higher damage, higher survival, actually targets a specific person, and has lower cd’s… better yet doesn’t waste utility….

mesmers not taking condi removal are hilarious when I kill them EVERY SINGLE TIME.

dude…. sad.

Amadeus.5687:

@LonelyReaper

Gesus you don’t understand it, I think Toss Elixir R is an amazing skill, what I wanted to point out for you, which you cleary don’t get.

Is that the more kits you take, the less utility skills you can take to cover weak points. I didn’t ask for all Tool Belt Ability or Utility to be a stun break, I never said that. THe point I made was if you run with 4 Kits you will have:
No Stun Break, No Condition Removal (Unless Elixir Gun which remove one on skill 5), and no real acces to Boons. Now, I do think that’s quite balanced for having that many Weapon Kit’s, but the Price is there, I play a very very dangerous way if running that.

And you are wrong, from every logical view, because you try to balance every proffession around the same core principels, which you can’t.
if we get 5 second CD on swaps, why shouldn’t the rest of the proffessions only have 5 second CD on the swap? Or at least a Trait that gives them that? why can a necromancer run full minions and have acces to his Proffesion Mechanic, while I can’t? and Why can a Ranger and Memser have Pet/Clones and still have other Utility? The way you try justify a nerf that ain’t nessacry is simple wrong.

The Weapon kit’s function on a very different way then other weapons, and hence it can’t be compared the way you do…

also, LOOOL at your Turret Comment hahaha

I am not saying taking 4 kits but 2 kits is greater than other profession, and you have an extra 5 new skill with a free utility skill, no profession gets that, that only to engineer. What i am saying is that the basic weapon swap cd should also affect engineer for balance wise.

@LonelyReaper.8075

3 hits right? what’s the cool down on it ? and how much damage does it do compared to phantasm? also, which one uses the most utility slots :P

JinDaVikk.7291:

Lonely….

We dont know how much damage you do so just cause your p/d condi doesnt mean anything.

next mesmers can gives phantasms double the hp….. plus shares mesmers toughness…..

Also 1 phantasm = higher damage, higher survival, actually targets a specific person, and has lower cd’s… better yet doesn’t waste utility….

mesmers not taking condi removal are hilarious when I kill them EVERY SINGLE TIME.

dude…. sad.

I been talking about tpvp, so suddenly i got demoted to hotjoin build or WvW build that doesn’t work in tpvp, nice. So to clarify it, it backstab. Go test it. It also a waste of time when you don’t read the other post ppl made and i reply. I say turret aren;t strong, so something weak and broken that ppl are asking for buff is not what i am talking about. Something need fixing does not make something else balance.

As for Phantasm build, their treated, target is played as zerker gc spec and it non viable in tpvp other that dueling and loses to ranger 1v1 drawn out fight, you can test out this op dueling spec and see if you can succeed in tpvp with that phantasm mesmer build.

@ Reaper… Purple Fleck is by far a very good engineer and very good in tourneys I have played with them and they hold side points very well. Flame thrower is very useless in tPvP… All someone has to do is stand right on top of the engi and they will keep getting “MISS MISS MISS!” because you know flame thrower is that awesome…

JinDaVikk.7291:

Lonely….

We dont know how much damage you do so just cause your p/d condi doesnt mean anything.

next mesmers can gives phantasms double the hp….. plus shares mesmers toughness…..

Also 1 phantasm = higher damage, higher survival, actually targets a specific person, and has lower cd’s… better yet doesn’t waste utility….

mesmers not taking condi removal are hilarious when I kill them EVERY SINGLE TIME.

dude…. sad.

Most mesmers have to take at least one condi removal. I usually trait for the torch.. Is it only one per skill? yeah but is it better than what we normally get hell yes!

jportell.2197:

@ Reaper… Purple Fleck is by far a very good engineer and very good in tourneys I have played with them and they hold side points very well. Flame thrower is very useless in tPvP… All someone has to do is stand right on top of the engi and they will keep getting “MISS MISS MISS!” because you know flame thrower is that awesome…

I know but why should that person be right on top of you and why should you use that when it’s on you, you can swap at will that make weapon swapping that good in pvp.

Could a moderator close this thread please? I don’t think there are any infractions but it would be nice to know that Anet is not taking this seriously.

Alternatively, I suppose we could just stop feeding the thread—however, this suggestion would break every usable engineer build in existence, so it’s a bit hard to keep quiet about it.

Also, thanks to the dev(s) who fixed the broken turret traits. Turrets are still bad, but at least they’re not broken and bad now.

jportell.2197:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Lonely….

We dont know how much damage you do so just cause your p/d condi doesnt mean anything.

next mesmers can gives phantasms double the hp….. plus shares mesmers toughness…..

Also 1 phantasm = higher damage, higher survival, actually targets a specific person, and has lower cd’s… better yet doesn’t waste utility….

mesmers not taking condi removal are hilarious when I kill them EVERY SINGLE TIME.

dude…. sad.

Most mesmers have to take at least one condi removal. I usually trait for the torch.. Is it only one per skill? yeah but is it better than what we normally get hell yes!

They don’t have a single condition remover on utility, see all the mesmer on tourney on stream, all of them traited them on heal, which require a trait and it on another skill that goes on a 2 sec cd, only 1 condition. Shatter mesmer don’t run a torch except if your a condition mesmer or phantasm( i seen some that run with torch dunno why.) which last longer than the standard shatter tpvp mesmer that uses portal/IOL/(decoy/blink/Mirror Image).

No you ain’t saying take 4 kit’s, but every time you start talk about what the Engineer can do you “pick” stuff where we somehow have 2-3 Kits + Boon Stacking Utility + Stun Breaks + Condition removal.

Which you still fail to understand we can’t have, and the reason why close to everyone that reply probaly will take you for a fool from now on, is that.

I can’t be kitten to state it anymore so this is the last time: To do what you say we can do, is not posible! Even then, running a 2 Kit build, which I do and love a lot, we pay a high price for:

Only one utility spot open, and you are lacking:
A Stun Breaker
Condition Removal
Boons stacking Skils (Regen being the only boon, which comes from Toolbelt skill on Elixir Gun, if you actually have that one)

You also have: Weak Skill 1 on your weapons and Kits and lower damage, and need to use more trait points that will pinghole you into the Kit’s.

And finally, Yes, Engineers are the only one having this! Gongrats! Why? Because it’s our special class Mechanic! Just like Memsers are the only one that got weapon skills that can spawn Pet’s, and Rangers being the only one that have super strong Pet’s! The fun thing is, It’s all ready balanced! They balanced that with how strong out Kits are and giving them all weak points that we can’t cover unless we pick other utility!

Gesus…

NevirSayDie.6235:

Could a moderator close this thread please? I don’t think there are any infractions but it would be nice to know that Anet is not taking this seriously.

Alternatively, I suppose we could just stop feeding the thread—however, this suggestion would break every usable engineer build in existence, so it’s a bit hard to keep quiet about it.

Also, thanks to the dev(s) who fixed the broken turret traits. Turrets are still bad, but at least they’re not broken and bad now.

It will be nice to have a dev respond, would like their opinion about it.

Lol I’m not sure how serious this thread is but anwyays…
Mechanics wise you can’t get any more plain than an engineer. Average life, average armor, low speed, very low access to stealth, no clones and no weapon swap. What we do have though is a few more skills than the rest at a time thanks to our toolbelt skill and kits depending on how many we decide to take. Take away our kit advantage (which I doubt will happen anyways) and all you have left is a plain class, your average soldier if you will.

Amadeus.5687:

No you ain’t saying take 4 kit’s, but every time you start talk about what the Engineer can do you “pick” stuff where we somehow have 2-3 Kits + Boon Stacking Utility + Stun Breaks + Condition removal.

Which you still fail to understand, and the reason why close to everyone that reply probaly will take you for a fool from now on, is that.

I can’t be kitten to state it anymore so this is the last time: To do what you say we can do, is not posible! Even then, running a 2 Kit build, which I do and love a lot, we pay a high price for:

Only one utility spot open, and you are lacking:
A Stun Breaker
Condition Removal
Boons stacking Skils (Regen being the only boon, which comes from Toolbelt skill on Elixir Gun, if you actually have that one)

You also have: Weak Skill 1 on your weapons and Kits and lower damage, and need to use more trait points that will pinghole you into the Kit’s.

And finally, Yes, Engineers are the only one having this! Gongrats! Why? Because it’s our special class Mechanic! Just like Memsers are the only one that got weapon skills that can spawn Pet’s, and Rangers being the only one that have super strong Pet’s! The fun thing is, It’s all ready balanced! They balanced that with how strong out Kits are and giving them all weak points that we can’t cover unless we pick other utility!

Gesus…

I nv state any thing you just listed, i only say how unpredictable they can be with no cd on weapon swapping. I nv say you have unlimited condition dmg or power i am just replying to what example you throw at me and explain how i see it. I think that having no cd on weapon swapping is very strong class mechanic, like how ppl view thief with the 3-4 sec backstab combo steal that instant kill.

Penguin.5197:

Lol I’m not sure how serious this thread is but anwyays…
Mechanics wise you can’t get any more plain than an engineer. Average life, average armor, low speed, very low access to stealth, no clones and no weapon swap. What we do have though is a few more skills than the rest at a time thanks to our toolbelt skill and kits depending on how many we decide to take. Take away our kit advantage (which I doubt will happen anyways) and all you have left is a plain class, your average soldier if you will.

I think if A-net can test it on their server and have a PTR that let top players test it, it would be good. I doubt it will be a big nerf, just less advantage and more on par with other profession basic mechanics.

google.3709:

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

quoting just for fun

You do talk about having acces to more 2-3 different kits in many of your examples, and you also talk about how we can do HGH and have lot’s of boons and amazing damage on the same time

Even then, if you don’t state that, which is fine, we can say that, you still manage to mess it up, because when you compare everything to other classes. you still underrate how big a price it is to give up an entire Utility Slot, to get acces to a second weapon set. What good are you with no CD on the weapon swapping if they just chain CC, because don’t have room for the things I have stated several times? I really doubt that you ever played a Engineer vs any decent players

LonelyReaper.8075:

jportell.2197:

JinDaVikk.7291:

Lonely….

We dont know how much damage you do so just cause your p/d condi doesnt mean anything.

next mesmers can gives phantasms double the hp….. plus shares mesmers toughness…..

Also 1 phantasm = higher damage, higher survival, actually targets a specific person, and has lower cd’s… better yet doesn’t waste utility….

mesmers not taking condi removal are hilarious when I kill them EVERY SINGLE TIME.

dude…. sad.

Most mesmers have to take at least one condi removal. I usually trait for the torch.. Is it only one per skill? yeah but is it better than what we normally get hell yes!

They don’t have a single condition remover on utility, see all the mesmer on tourney on stream, all of them traited them on heal, which require a trait and it on another skill that goes on a 2 sec cd, only 1 condition. Shatter mesmer don’t run a torch except if your a condition mesmer or phantasm( i seen some that run with torch dunno why.) which last longer than the standard shatter tpvp mesmer that uses portal/IOL/(decoy/blink/Mirror Image).

I have seen some mesmer tourney streams and simply put some of these guys are awful. And since i run a confusion build traiting the torch is a better option since its 2 condition removers for one weapon vs. 1 condition remover in a heal skill (not very reliable if you ask me) And the reason you see some of these guys that use the torch is FOR THE CONDITION REMOVAL. Which you would know if you paid more attention to mesmer traits.

google.3709:

google.3709:

Warrior: you now its coming!
Mesmer: you don’t know who’s coming!
Thief: you don’t know when it coming!
Engi: you know don’t whats coming!

quoting just for fun

+1. I likes.

Amadeus.5687:

You do talk about having acces to more 2-3 different kits in many of your examples, and you also talk about how we can do HGH and have lot’s of boons and amazing damage on the same time

Even then, if you don’t state that, which is fine, we can say that, you still manage to mess it up, because when you compare everything to other classes. you still underrate how big a price it is to give up an entire Utility Slot, to get acces to a second weapon set. What good are you with no CD on the weapon swapping if they just chain CC, because don’t have room for the things I have stated several times? I really doubt that you ever played a Engineer vs any decent players

I stated in the opening about nothing about Hgh and kits but when ppl gave example, i reply thinking their running 1 healing kit and 2 weapon kit on their slot, so that makes 3 kit. Any engineer that pvp at least will take 1 elixir for some defensive utility, so i didn’t stated it(my fault.). Any class except bunkers will die from chained cc, only class i know that can almost survive that is guardian and ranger. Even now ele dies from chained cc. The profession that dies the most in tpvp mesmer, that have no move speed, take 2 utility for the team, 1 stun breaker, 1 condition cleanse traited in heal , also die from chain cc, and ppl been complaining how op they are. Not lying go watch the few scrim and tourney that have been hosted, see how even xeph on Team Paradigm get kill so often compared to teldoo(he is awesome). Teldoo on far node also survive with 2 kits 1 healing turret and 1 elixir vs 2 members of other team and can last up to 30sec which is his skill but partly of how strong no cd on weapon swapping is.

google, you should make that your sig. It a nice quote

Yeah dem 4kit engis (its 3 really since medkit is hardly a complete weaponset, but on the other hand few of them are good stand alone weapon sets anyways) totally wreck face in tourneys, that’s why we see so many hgh engineers who use only grenade kit (which isn’t a complete standalone weaponset) in the engineer build with among the least CC possible (so much for unlimited CC making them op).

On the other hand the engineer was supposed to control the battlefield, be it with turrets, bombs or other shenanigans. They aren’t supposed to lock themselves into chains but instead they will play reactionary against intruders who got a higher baseline in raw damage and wreckface but who plays in predictable patterns. Its as much a base for them to adapt to the situation against a changing battlefield (again using CC to control it) as it is for a mesmer to be naturally confusing or a thief to be hard to catch.

The CD time is different than every other class. Isn’t that way OP? In a vacuum yes, but there are plenty more differences between professions that this is practically a non-issue.

If you were to ask an ele that they could have a 1s cooldown on air attunement swap, but they would would lose a utility skill, they would prefer what they have now. Especially since all they would gain would be a F2 skill that gives for example swiftness or vigor, but would have to trait 30 into air for any of the air skills to be decent, and the auto-attack damage would be lowered.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Amadeus.5687:

You do talk about having acces to more 2-3 different kits in many of your examples, and you also talk about how we can do HGH and have lot’s of boons and amazing damage on the same time

Even then, if you don’t state that, which is fine, we can say that, you still manage to mess it up, because when you compare everything to other classes. you still underrate how big a price it is to give up an entire Utility Slot, to get acces to a second weapon set. What good are you with no CD on the weapon swapping if they just chain CC, because don’t have room for the things I have stated several times? I really doubt that you ever played a Engineer vs any decent players

I stated in the opening about nothing about Hgh and kits but when ppl gave example, i reply thinking their running 1 healing kit and 2 weapon kit on their slot, so that makes 3 kit. Any engineer that pvp at least will take 1 elixir for some defensive utility, so i didn’t stated it(my fault.). Any class except bunkers will die from chained cc, only class i know that can almost survive that is guardian and ranger. Even now ele dies from chained cc. The profession that dies the most in tpvp mesmer, that have no move speed, take 2 utility for the team, 1 stun breaker, 1 condition cleanse traited in heal , also die from chain cc, and ppl been complaining how op they are. Not lying go watch the few scrim and tourney that have been hosted, see how even xeph on Team Paradigm get kill so often compared to teldoo(he is awesome). Teldoo on far node also survive with 2 kits 1 healing turret and 1 elixir vs 2 members of other team and can last up to 30sec which is his skill but partly of how strong no cd on weapon swapping is.

The reason I die a lot more then teldo, is due to the fact that I am the highest damage threat and I also have illusion of life, if they were to kill phanta or teldo before me, then I would illusion them or even port them away; so it makes a lot of sense that I would be the prime target for the enemy team.
It has nothing to do with the fact that teldo is more survivable then I am, because regardless of what class you are concentrated focus fire from 3 different people will take you down.

I also think that giving kits cooldowns would be really dumb and would take away from what makes engineer such a fun class to play, ontop of the fact that engi only has 1 weapon set and normally can only fit 1-2 kits on their bar at best, I really don’t find it game breaking at all; infact placing a cooldown on engi kits would kill the class.

@Lonely

You keep asking for dev opinion and dev to test it with top player.

Yet you are the only one yet to advocate your idea.

Any main engineer know cooldown would destroy the class. Simply said.

I also won’t reply to your post answering me, as you only mad staw argument, changing the meaning of what I said.

My post was meant to say all classe are unique! You can’t say Engineer can’t have this because other don’t have the same.

It’s a class mecanism! It’s unique!!!

I really don’t know how to say it any differently.

All your post is based around this, and it doesn’t make sense at all.

Also you tried to arg about Engineer utility with Armadeus is quit funny. He is prolly one of the best Engineer we have.

LonelyReaper.8075:

“The only right situation is the one where I stand victorious, and if I don’t, it’s not my fault. It’s the balance that’s broken. Nerf whatever gives me a hard time, so that I may beat it easy mode, and everything will be right again”.

Fix’d it for ya.

I have a better idea, just put all the kits on the tool belt skills (where you can select 4 kits on your toolbelt) and put cooldown on them, and give engineer new utility skills for the missing kits now on the utility, then Reaper you will come crying about how OP the engineer is