Just put some option in settings to unlock queueing outside of HOTM. New players will get some experience in pvp before discover that way of queuing. And also the argue about new players is tricky. You already have restrictions (rank 20?) of playing rankeds as i know. So for now all guys who play ranked (when season starts) will know that build will change from pve ect ect.
How about adding more stuff to do in hotm? Mystic forge, crafting station, jumpings, gliding, or combat rings when two people enter they can duel? I always find myself jumping on the same rocks, i think it affects my sanity.
Lily Bertine [NG]/[GiRL]
Nerfentalist of Augury Rock
I really dont understand has all the old player given up on this game? Not even a year has passed since we had possibility to que outside of mists and it was working perfectly, same with soloque.
Not all of us. Yet. But getting there pretty fast.
There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:
It forces new players to recognize they have completely different builds in PvP maps.
You won’t miss the match accept because of load screens and get dishonor.
We can make a better user experience (match accept and map voting) without having to worry about interrupting whatever a player might be doing elsewhere.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
So why can you not increase the user experience inside HotM, like adding a dueling arena/place/instance.
It is not fun standing around doing nothing while waiting for queue to pop. Having a place there where you can duel one can also test other players you meet, from there you can make friends, it could be its own community.
Power Ranger PvP I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore
There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:
It forces new players to recognize they have completely different builds in PvP maps.
You won’t miss the match accept because of load screens and get dishonor.
We can make a better user experience (match accept and map voting) without having to worry about interrupting whatever a player might be doing elsewhere.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
Sorry but these answers are just corporate speak. We could queue from anywhere (especially hotjoins) before the first feature patch and it worked, too.
And taking away queuing anywhere did NOT reduce the amount of 4v5s.
Sorry, but frak people in long loading screens. Why should I have to suffer because some people have kittenty pcs?
So we are acting like there is ANY tutorial to pvp? This Joke map we call tutorial that even 1st timmers skip?
In both rankeds/unrankeds you have time to adjust your build so “we need to make sure players understand that they are in diferent buildset” is not even worth fixing. This is like 1time error that player can make, And with proper matchmaking(HAHAHAHAHHAHAH) player like this should be queued with players on same(0) skilllvl to have fun, instead queueing him with Veterans(that you guys forced to go Unranked). Whats even funnier is fact that you can always make “status” like in gw1 stating: “You are now in pvp! Your skills/build/ has been normalized to pvp type” I know players that dont even know that they can pvp with lvl 1(and these are pve Veterans) nothing stated this fact when they 1st went in pvp.
And my true wish is that devs will see problem with balancing game pvp/pve/wvw wise in same time and will split traits/weapons balancing to 3 diferent teams. SO we will have 100000000000000000000000000000DMG burn and condi in pve and MODERATE not INSANE dmg in pvp. Beeing lazy and normalizing every stat/trait for every type cuz “new players will not have fun” is rly rly dumb move. These new players will soon become regulars and stop playing this game, cuz all you guys care for is “NEW PLAYERS” Vets get kitten on by every balance patch. Buffed Burning, Sinister Engi viable in pve… Pvp destroyed cuz 70% of playerbase went easymode burnYolo…
Reversed logic: If you queue for sPVP where ever you are, you can’t switch character, use fast travel, use story part, load map.
Yes, in pve, if you are queued. You died. You can’t respawn. Wanna respawn? Manually leave your queue.
Put some exceptions to what would be correct… like playing hotjoin?
Hotjoin had been the way we had wait for queue the first 2 years of the game. 1v1 server are nice while you wait with your team…
PLEASE.
Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild. https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/
Reversed logic: If you queue for sPVP where ever you are, you can’t switch character, use fast travel, use story part, load map.
Yes, in pve, if you are queued. You died. You can’t respawn. Wanna respawn? Manually leave your queue.
Put some exceptions to what would be correct… like playing hotjoin?
Hotjoin had been the way we had wait for queue the first 2 years of the game. 1v1 server are nice while you wait with your team…
PLEASE.
Upon further reflection last night, I no longer think breaking the queue for waypointing is necessary unless you waypoint to an entirely different map. When you waypoint somewhere within the same map, if it’s far away you’ll get a loading screen, but the map is already mostly loaded, the game just needs to catch up with where your character suddenly showed up at. This already works fine in Heart of the Mists. If I am standing around the bank and waypoint to the golem area, I’ll get a loading screen but I’m not kicked out of the queue. I don’t think it’d be much different in other maps because Heart of the Mists isn’t exactly the fastest loading map in game…
“Power is like the illuminati of Guild Wars.” -Loshon
There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:
It forces new players to recognize they have completely different builds in PvP maps.
You won’t miss the match accept because of load screens and get dishonor.
We can make a better user experience (match accept and map voting) without having to worry about interrupting whatever a player might be doing elsewhere.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
Open a SPvP mastery to unlock it? Would force people to play X matches before being able to queue outside of HotM. The queue times for newbies are so low anyway.
Alternatively, lock it behind a SPvP rank limit with an explanation that should you be in a loading screen when the queue pops, you will be removed and have to requeue.
No need to change anything and “veteran” players will be happy.
As for the UI, its out of my league.
Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind.
- Theodore Roosevelt
We should be able to queue in our Guild Halls. I mean, that just makes sense and I cannot see how it would be that technically challenging to implement. Like, why even have Guild Halls if I am not allowed to hang out there during downtime/while waiting for queue.
Solutions that would work for both side (and hopefully easy to implement):
be able to queue anywhere except in an instance.
if the user uses a waypoint or map portal, kick them and their party out of the queue.
[optional] print a system message to their chat log saying “your queue is cancelled because you changed map”
[optional] pops up a dialog before the user uses the waypoint, and make them confirm that changing map will cancel their queue
[optional] [last resort] make it so that only people at rank 20 and up can queue outside of HotM. You can make it rank 80 too if you think rank 20 can still make build mistake.
Beside that
30s time to accept queue is good enough, no need to change. Changing it won’t fix anything. There will still be people with wooden PC that takes a minute to load. Or if they never download the map and needs to download it. The real solution is above.
We can also make a new HotM Reward Track. Upon finishing it, the player can start queuing outside HotM. This prevent new players from making newbie mistake while queuing outside it. They won’t even know it exists unless they look for it, so no accidental queues either.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
Ok then.
Oh and while you’re at it, tell your software engineers to not implement a barrier like that “match flow UI” eye-candy again. What a wall to work around. You guys should have communicated better but that’s just the nature of the beast I guess.
However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
You’re talking about map travels and loading screens, correct? There was a double queue glitch months ago where we would receive an extra queue after the one we received. So what did us players do? Queue for pvp then canceled it so we could duel in a custom map until another queue popped up.
Sorry if I come across a bit contemptuous, not being able to duel or roam while waiting for a 3-5minute queue is aggravating. I admit, it’s less boring when in a TS3 group though.
aka FalseLights Rank: Top 250 since Season 2 #5 best gerdien in wurld
with ques taking anywhere from 1minute to 30 minutes it would certainly be a delight to be able to use the time productively within the game instead of training random jumping in hotm or beating a million golems to death.
Removing people from queue on map travel is a decent middle ground and should be easier than temporarily removing them from the queue. However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
The new player argument is obviously not an ideal one, but at the time was decent. I’d argue its more important now that we’ve removed the tutorial, but ideally should not affect where you can queue from once you know how PvP works.
The WvW queue behaves much differently from the PvP queue and cannot be used as an example or launching point unfortunately.
Increasing match accept times I don’t think is an effective or fun solution to this problem.
Maybe another tickbox on the PvP UI; ‘enable queue outside of the mists’ etc?
There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:
It forces new players to recognize they have completely different builds in PvP maps.
You won’t miss the match accept because of load screens and get dishonor.
We can make a better user experience (match accept and map voting) without having to worry about interrupting whatever a player might be doing elsewhere.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
Opposite effect as you wanted on me.
< Veteran PvX player. I love doing stuff in gw2. I hate waiting. In the past i could wvw, do another hotjoin pvp match, do pve farming, while waiting for queue. If i got interrupted, so be it. Sometimes my match was about to end (485 point on me or opposite team) and i got pulled out. While to bad i didn’t get rewards, no big deal, I knew this could happen when i press the ‘queue’ button.
While this certainly is not the only reason, it’s one of the major reasons i play pvp a lot less. Make the wait time sometime i can multitask (for do my daily achievement in pve/wvw) while I hit the queue button and I will be a lot more inclined to play pvp. But it’s not. And the queue are long. But in the past i couldnt care less about long queues, it would let me finish a match in hotjoin grab some reward then do a SoloQ run.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:
It forces new players to recognize they have completely different builds in PvP maps.
You won’t miss the match accept because of load screens and get dishonor.
We can make a better user experience (match accept and map voting) without having to worry about interrupting whatever a player might be doing elsewhere.
In order to allow queuing from outside HotM, we would need to change these things.
We would need tech to remove players temporarily from queue during load screens.
Create better tutorials or gating for new players so they don’t hop into PvP unprepared.
Revisit the way the match flow UI works.
Opposite effect as you wanted on me.
< Veteran PvX player. I love doing stuff in gw2. I hate waiting. In the past i could wvw, do another hotjoin pvp match, do pve farming, while waiting for queue. If i got interrupted, so be it. Sometimes my match was about to end (485 point on me or opposite team) and i got pulled out. While to bad i didn’t get rewards, no big deal, I knew this could happen when i press the ‘queue’ button.
While this certainly is not the only reason, it’s one of the major reasons i play pvp a lot less. Make the wait time sometime i can multitask (for do my daily achievement in pve/wvw) while I hit the queue button and I will be a lot more inclined to play pvp. But it’s not. And the queue are long. But in the past i couldnt care less about long queues, it would let me finish a match in hotjoin grab some reward then do a SoloQ run.
dis guy gits it. if u want people to play your game… actually give them something to play… not sit around bored n waiting…
this is a game right? games are supposed to be fun, i don’t have fun waiting in line at the apple store for my new iphone, an i don’t have fun waiting in queue either
The effect this has had on me is that I usually start watching TV or alt-tab out while I’m queued and very often this means that I miss the queue because of this. There’s literally nothing to do in the mists and with queue times going 5-10min now I am forced to afk in mists or do something else and likely miss the queue. Time to rethink your strategy here Anet.
Removing people from queue on map travel is a decent middle ground and should be easier than temporarily removing them from the queue. However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
The new player argument is obviously not an ideal one, but at the time was decent. I’d argue its more important now that we’ve removed the tutorial, but ideally should not affect where you can queue from once you know how PvP works.
The WvW queue behaves much differently from the PvP queue and cannot be used as an example or launching point unfortunately.
Increasing match accept times I don’t think is an effective or fun solution to this problem.
Hi, software engineer of 14+ years. With a masters degree in the subject. While your current implementation of WvW queuing may work much differently, technically I would love to hear the argument for why you can not retool the sPvP queueing system to behave very similar. Although I don’t have privilege to your source code, I have a deep understanding of how such systems work and queuing is an arbitrary pattern for software engineers. I imagine the reason is because your queuing for sPvP is based on current instance of Heart of the Mist and perhaps you are doing some load balancing with how players are placed into instance? I don’t expect ANet to disclose proprietary design, but I do think you should be honest. Given enough effort the retooling for sPvP queuing to allow players to queue from outside Heart of the Mist is absolutely possible, it’s just right now certain powers that be do not want to devote resources to this retooling.
I think it absolutely is worth the effort if you will finally give us a premed vs solo queue. If it’s a difficult technical undertaking, make it worth it. If pre-mades have to wait 5-10 minutes to get a match at least they can be in world outside Heart of the Mist doing something else. I don’t think they would mind those long queues then.
I don’t understand why ArenaNet doesn’t invest in this. I think those responsible for leading the sPvP effort should really consider how damaging it is to continue to have pre-made vs pug groups. I imagine the general thinking is that league division play will take care of this, but I seriously doubt that it will. You’ll still have pugs vs pre-mades.
Removing people from queue on map travel is a decent middle ground and should be easier than temporarily removing them from the queue. However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
The new player argument is obviously not an ideal one, but at the time was decent. I’d argue its more important now that we’ve removed the tutorial, but ideally should not affect where you can queue from once you know how PvP works.
The WvW queue behaves much differently from the PvP queue and cannot be used as an example or launching point unfortunately.
Increasing match accept times I don’t think is an effective or fun solution to this problem.
Hi, software engineer of 14+ years. With a masters degree in the subject. While your current implementation of WvW queuing may work much differently, technically I would love to hear the argument for why you can not retool the sPvP queueing system to behave very similar. Although I don’t have privilege to your source code, I have a deep understanding of how such systems work and queuing is an arbitrary pattern for software engineers. I imagine the reason is because your queuing for sPvP is based on current instance of Heart of the Mist and perhaps you are doing some load balancing with how players are placed into instance? I don’t expect ANet to disclose proprietary design, but I do think you should be honest. Given enough effort the retooling for sPvP queuing to allow players to queue from outside Heart of the Mist is absolutely possible, it’s just right now certain powers that be do not want to devote resources to this retooling.
I think it absolutely is worth the effort if you will finally give us a premed vs solo queue. If it’s a difficult technical undertaking, make it worth it. If pre-mades have to wait 5-10 minutes to get a match at least they can be in world outside Heart of the Mist doing something else. I don’t think they would mind those long queues then.
I don’t understand why ArenaNet doesn’t invest in this. I think those responsible for leading the sPvP effort should really consider how damaging it is to continue to have pre-made vs pug groups. I imagine the general thinking is that league division play will take care of this, but I seriously doubt that it will. You’ll still have pugs vs pre-mades.
Nice post, but using the powers of deduction, they don’t care, or CBF.
Removing people from queue on map travel is a decent middle ground and should be easier than temporarily removing them from the queue. However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
The new player argument is obviously not an ideal one, but at the time was decent. I’d argue its more important now that we’ve removed the tutorial, but ideally should not affect where you can queue from once you know how PvP works.
The WvW queue behaves much differently from the PvP queue and cannot be used as an example or launching point unfortunately.
Increasing match accept times I don’t think is an effective or fun solution to this problem.
Hi, software engineer of 14+ years. With a masters degree in the subject. While your current implementation of WvW queuing may work much differently, technically I would love to hear the argument for why you can not retool the sPvP queueing system to behave very similar. Although I don’t have privilege to your source code, I have a deep understanding of how such systems work and queuing is an arbitrary pattern for software engineers. I imagine the reason is because your queuing for sPvP is based on current instance of Heart of the Mist and perhaps you are doing some load balancing with how players are placed into instance? I don’t expect ANet to disclose proprietary design, but I do think you should be honest. Given enough effort the retooling for sPvP queuing to allow players to queue from outside Heart of the Mist is absolutely possible, it’s just right now certain powers that be do not want to devote resources to this retooling.
I think it absolutely is worth the effort if you will finally give us a premed vs solo queue. If it’s a difficult technical undertaking, make it worth it. If pre-mades have to wait 5-10 minutes to get a match at least they can be in world outside Heart of the Mist doing something else. I don’t think they would mind those long queues then.
I don’t understand why ArenaNet doesn’t invest in this. I think those responsible for leading the sPvP effort should really consider how damaging it is to continue to have pre-made vs pug groups. I imagine the general thinking is that league division play will take care of this, but I seriously doubt that it will. You’ll still have pugs vs pre-mades.
Nice post, but using the powers of deduction, they don’t care, or CBF.
They do care, but sometimes when they try to adjust or “fix” things it has consequences that many players don’t like.
As far as I can tell they are usually unwilling to rollback any changes they have made even if many players complain about it, or the changes have obviously created more serious issues than they solved.
However, to say the “don’t care”, in my opinion, is extremely harsh. This team has shown on numerous occasions that they are heavily invested in the game and community.
Yeah we need the option to Queue outside HotM.
It’s killing your games watchability on twitch (noone wants to watch a stream where 70% + is spent running around HotM)
It makes PvP a commitment, if you want to pvp for a bit you have to drop everything else, no crafting, or world exploration, nope you need to jump around golems for 10-20min.
Please allow this! Maybe add some restrictions like you need to be in HotM to start the queue so you make sure you build is right, maybe make it so new players going to queue for the first time need to go in and make their build/do the tutorial area.
Evan: If you think load times are such a huge issue, can you explain to us why we are FORCED to load HotM before resuming an in-progress tPvP match that we were disconnected from?
This is by far the worst design I have seen and absolutely cripples a team if a member gets disconnected in the match. It adds a ton of loading time for no reason, especially since HotM is full of people idling which makes the load times even longer. It’s not like the player can choose not to join the match upon relogging, it just goes from loading HotM to loading the PvP map. This process is slow even on a modern computer.
You should be skipping the HotM and going straight to the PvP map when rejoining an in-progress match!
Yeah we need the option to Queue outside HotM. It’s killing your games watchability on twitch (noone wants to watch a stream where 70% + is spent running around HotM)
It makes PvP a commitment, if you want to pvp for a bit you have to drop everything else, no crafting, or world exploration, nope you need to jump around golems for 10-20min.
Please allow this! Maybe add some restrictions like you need to be in HotM to start the queue so you make sure you build is right, maybe make it so new players going to queue for the first time need to go in and make their build/do the tutorial area.
The bolded part is actually a HUGE consideration, and a reason that they really should change the way we are allowed to queue.
For a competitive game(mode) to really attract viewers, and therefore potential players, it needs to provide the shortest possible amount of downtime so that streamers have close to 100% of gametime when streaming.
I’ve seen streams of people like Helseth that spend literally 15 or close to 20 minutes just talking and jumping around in HoTM waiting for a game to pop, that then lasts about 10 minutes…
Removing people from queue on map travel is a decent middle ground and should be easier than temporarily removing them from the queue. However, even teleporting within a map can have decent load times and hooking up warnings to every way you can leave a map, like Elwinson listed, is still a moderate feat.
The new player argument is obviously not an ideal one, but at the time was decent. I’d argue its more important now that we’ve removed the tutorial, but ideally should not affect where you can queue from once you know how PvP works.
The WvW queue behaves much differently from the PvP queue and cannot be used as an example or launching point unfortunately.
Increasing match accept times I don’t think is an effective or fun solution to this problem.
If the queue can’t be fixed, how about putting some crafting stations and a forge in the mist – better still, allow players to 1v1 duel there as well – problem solved.
Pretty ridiculous with queue times for those in diamond stretching to beyond an hour to expect people to just wait with absolutely nothing to do in HOTM.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Honestly, I just don’t understand why anet leaves these issues hanging; they are basically just multiplying their problems for the player base. By adding leagues without this we are seeing 1-2 hour queues, when queues around 20 minutes were already considered ridiculously long before leagues.
Sure, they gave us a dismiss button. They still force us to hit that button. Like, What? Why would I ever want to leave that window up anyways? To look at how many people haven’t accepted yet?
When ground-targetted bone minion explosions become a thing, I will change this signature.- 2013 http://twitch.tv/alemfi/
Just like Build Templates. Everyone will agree they really want it, but alas anet will do nothing. Instead we will get another kittenty gamemode added that will be eventually removed or break.
I imagine he might be taking a hiatus if he’s not playing anymore. He was motivated enough to make this post before leagues. Now that leagues are making the lack of this feature a bigger problem, I wouldn’t be surprised that people just quit. I’m fortunate enough to be a casual solo/duo-queuer, so my bad queue times are generally 4+ minutes, don’t think I’ve actually seen more than 8 minutes, but I still am a strong advocate of the return of the ability to queue outside of the mists.
When ground-targetted bone minion explosions become a thing, I will change this signature.- 2013 http://twitch.tv/alemfi/
I would Justin love to know anets standing on this, are they aware or aware and not able to do anything about it. But then again its been over three years.
Power Ranger PvP I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore
I would Justin love to know anets standing on this, are they aware or aware and not able to do anything about it. But then again its been over three years.
Two dev replies are in this thread; Go to the first page, second post for links.
“Power is like the illuminati of Guild Wars.” -Loshon
1v1 server are nice while you wait with your team…