Guild Wars 2

50% is fine, but reduce the debuffs.

Time warp reduce cD to 190 seconds from 210.
Frenzy, 25% extra damage taken not 50%.

etc. etc.

Xeph.4513:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so the quickness nerf was pretty drastic and the reason for it was to help new ppl in the game. but it didnt just help new ppl in the game it helped make thiefs mesmers and warriors worse then they already were at top tier game play and that is not OK.

once before the devs listened to us and changed rez timer from the 20 second mistake rez to the 15 second that the whole community agreed on.

now i know we cant force anet to listen to us but i am asking ver politley to consider it. i didnt make a post for 3 days after the patch because i am still feeling everything out but for now i am asking for both sides. 50 % is to easy and even though i loved 100% because i loved being on my toes all day i am willing to meet ANET half way and we agree on 75% quickness.

YES 75% = 237 players

dont matter = 1 player

no keep 50% = 3 players

please keep posting yes for 75% quickness. (or whatever you feel)

I have a feeling this poll is very rigged; I don’t even think we have over 150 players posting on this forum lmao.
I am glad that you are willing to meet anet half way, god forbid you weren’t so forgiving, I shudder at the thought of you putting your foot down anets throat and forcing them back to 100% quickness!

yeah i been in a good mood latley so i guess 75% will be fine for now.

updated to this point so far.

This wasn’t funny or original 10 troll threads ago.

No. Get rid of it.

It’s cheap, lame, and apparently too game-changing.

No ones style should depend so heavily on one move.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

updated to this point so far.

Please keep updating it frequently.

Nope, but I think ANet needs to rework the Quickness Skills in different ways, like lower CD, rework the drawbacks etc.

It should be sth. like Frenzy in GW1: It had a very low CD (4 seconds), gave 33% atk-speed and doubled the recieved DMG for 8 Seconds, so you could’ve run around with Frenzy all the time, but nobody did it, because of the Drawback!

Quickness and especially Frenzy shouldn’t be balanced by the Cooldown or simply nerving it’s DPS-increase, that makes the build volatile and bursty. It should be balanced by making the Drawback as severe as the one on Frenzy and you should have to be able to decide in every situation: “Should I use Quickness now or shouldn’t I?” This makes for interesting Gameplay, not having OP skills every 60 seconds….

Balance length and severity of the Drawback, leave it at 50% speed-increase and get the CD down to 10 Seconds….

how do u block retaliation? is that like blocking yourself?

CD 10sec on frenzy? lol

lol u guyssss

gwawer.9805:

how do u block retaliation? is that like blocking yourself?

CD 10sec on frenzy? lol

lol u guyssss

Why not?

You can easily balance it without giving it a ridiculously long CD….

Would you use it with a 10 Seconds CD if it gave you 1 Second of Quickness but double your received DMG for 10 Seconds? Nope, no1 would.

But if we get to like 3-4 Seconds Quickness and 6-8 Seconds Double-DMG, we could really get into a territory of a fun to use skill that isn’t OP and requires Skill, Map-Awareness, good positioning and Teamplay on both the Warrior&His Team and the opposing Team.

Considering the other Quickness-Skills, that really have quite weak drawbacks, we could easily double or even tripple the time of the Drawback to always force a strong decision to be made.

But well, you can of course always have 3 Utilities and 1 Elite with 60+ Seconds CD – that’s really fun and doesn’t make the Game volatile and “coinflippy” at all….

To everyone saying that quickness was necessary to improve build variety on warriors, I agree. It is a kitten shame that most classes are forced into a particular tree line, particular weapon set or particular utility. Warriors were pigeonholed into quickness.

The entire point is that A-net never considered the nuances to such a momentous decision. Instead of actually improving the class to a point where it is actually playable post nerf they just nerfed the kitten out of the ONLY thing that made them viable. It was a blanket nerf, a clandestine nerf and one that was arguably necessary, but necessary under certain scenarios which have no where near been met or will be met in the forseeable future.

IF they considered this a necessary buff for future balance patches to make other builds viable, then why the kitten didn’t they save the nerf for when the buffs come? Now, warriors took a bullet to the head with no other alternatives. Zero. Nothing. The class is kitten in TPvP and you have no excuse to bring one now and had little to bring one before.

To bring the point home, warriors received a banner buff and a buff to kick. Have fun with that. Let’s be perfectly honest, there are a BILLION kittening trait/weapon/utility combinations for a warrior and only a handful were decent at best in the first place. Instead of say, improving anything else, they just nerfed the kitten out of that which wasn’t really that overpowered to begind with.

Its true they should have bumped something for warriors besides the useless fluff the had in the patch notes(basically no new options were added for any class at all), but it will hopefully be short term pain for long term gain.

The fact that professions would even consider themselves “useless” by the reduction of haste is more indicative of how Anet balanced themselves into a corner by making this utility too integral to their class function. How can you possibly balance base abilities when you have to consider the potentiality of haste increasing its deadliest twice-fold? How do you weigh other utility options to sheer breadth of game changing uses of haste? Quickness stomps, quickness res, quickness for increased dps, etc. Thieves who burst with haste don’t even properly render of stealth before the burst sequence ends! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LbhdsF4oEI8

This was a good change just bad execution.

You do realize there are way less than 326 players playing PvP?

I am enjoying this patch as well. They took our mediocre burst away and gave the Warrior class the one thing it truly needed, the OP “Kick” on a 16 cool down. No one can touch us now.

If a player is having trouble dueling with a certain class,they learn to counter that build.

If a dev is having trouble dueling with a certain class,they nerf the main mechanic of that build.

I really think the balance Devs are ELE users. Don’t deny it, spirit watch and RTL is so blatantly obvious.

Problem when developers are also players is that they bring in BIAS into the game.

Valkyriez.6578:

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

Because now we cant land the 100b and have 1 more second of taking 50% more damage. Not to mention if we’re popping it to rush away from combat our distance covered is actually less than without it, only now rush is all cooldown.

Master Charles.7093:

Sure warriors aren’t as good at their ‘one trick’ now (the one where they run up to you like a crack head with A.D.D. and try to blaze you down in 2 seconds), but seriously…

… it’s lame that that is all they can do (or all that anyone wants to do with them) in the first place. Too bad the rest of their tools are sub-par, but that’s no excuse to leave this bunk multiplier as was.

So give us other tools to work with! You think we’re all super psyched about having to include the gs in our builds because we think its super awesome?

Archaon.6245:

Saital.4819:

Damage numbers on Hundred Blades are cumulative, not per strike. Not even going to comment on the rest of your post. Learn to play before posting on forums.

Successful troll is successful.

Or maybe, some times stupid people on the Internet are actually stupid.

Epic polls are epic

But anyway im going to give 10k votes for dont matter

Since so many people are crying at the quickness nerf (justified crying imo), im wondering if it was OP in the first place.

So discuss!

time warp and thiefs quickness yes

warriors nope

But tbh it was op for new players, so i think nerfing it was good move.

Nope….

With All Chars having Stunbreakers with very often shorter CD than the Skills giving Quickness, it was basically mostly used for Rezzes/Stomps on high-level play, because you can’t just fire off a 60 second CD skill with a Warrior to simply force a 30-Second Stunbreaker AND receive double-DMG yourself. That’s why we saw so few Warriors in high-level play and only in Team-Setups that could basically guarantee him a kill with every Frenzy he uses with additional Stuns and CC and good enough Pressure to force out the Stunbreakers before the Warrior fired off his Frenzy.

I basically only saw Quickness for attacks on the very few Warriors we saw in high-level play and on Thiefs, when the Bunker-Ele’s became so popular that many Thiefs thought that they needed the extra-burst.

Engis didn’t use Quickness at all, Power-Rangers were almost never seen on high-level play and the Condi-Rangers that skilled Zephyr, did it for the Quickness-Rezzes and Stomps.

Time-Warp could’ve maybe used a nerf, but not because the Quickness-Effect is so strong, but because Time-Warp has a huge radius and lasts 10 seconds.

It’s IMHO clearly a Balance-Change ANet did because of bad Players crying about stuff that can be dealth with pretty easily if you aren’t a level-10 hotjoiner…..

It was clearly overpowered. This can be proven by the fact that it was enough to single-handely break some builds. There have also been, in the past, builds that were nerfed due to how strong they were because of quickness. And finally, there are new builds coming out now, now that quickness is weaker.

This shows how impactful it is. Quickness contributed as much to the existence of bunkers as the conquest game mode did. Quickness punished players for bringing in glass cannon builds that did not have quickeness, or that did not have extreme defenses. That’s why you mostly saw Mesmers and Thieves bursting, because of their quick bursts + stealth/ clones, and Warriors as a secondary option. Most other classes did not have the means to burst as quick and/ or protect themselves as much as thieves/ mesmers. For example, it is now more viable to play a glass cannon elementalist, while it was not before, because a glass cannon elementalist must rely on a lot of different skills to protect themselves, which means they require time to survive, and quickened bursts did not give them that precious time. I’m sure there are other glass cannon builds from other professions that might also have more room to breath now.

100% increased speed is also inherently broken in a multiplayer game due to the existence of lag, latency, etc. The GW2’s devs have designed GW2’s combat around this, thus why interupting skills is no longer a main strategy, as it was in GW1. The existence of quickness contradicted their original intention, but it no longer does that.

Finally, new or “normal” pvp players want to have fun first hand, and only then will they have the motivation to try tyo be good/ hardcore. Although this does not apply to everyone, it’s no difficult math to understand that, if a game isn’t fun, players will play another game instead. And GW2’s combat promises fun with its skills, its weapon switching, its dodging and movement mechanics, etc. It’s not a first person shooter where the fun is around aiming fast, have an excellent precision, and headshot somebody before they headshot you. In GW2, if players aren’t using or do not have the time to use skills, because they got bursted in 2 or 3 seconds out of nowhere, they won’t have fun. Especially if half the damage came from a stealthed character who can just cheapily spam heartseeker, or from anybody who jsut randomly bursted you down at the middle of a crowded combat.

And before anyone replies saying “but heartseeker/ quickness can just be countered by pro players like me”, many players also think of something else: they are also aware that some builds are far easier to play for more reward ends, than others. And thus, they still feel it is unfair to them to get beaten by cheap skills. This trivializes pvp a lot, which further contributes to decrease botht he fun factor and the tactical factor behind the pvp system.

I hope this post makes it clear about how bad quikness was to the game.

I just had my own poll with 469 participants:
400 answered: this thread and your poll completely made up BS.
69 – duh

It definitely was. Quickness allowed to fast stomp, fast rez and even as autowin button if using timewarp. It definitely destroyed the fun in pvp.

Sure it’s a kitten change for warriors, but when we look at quickness as a game mechanic, it was too powerful.

no…

100% was rediculously high and 75% isnt that big difference, 50% is fair…

btw you are deleting posts when counting votes? thats a bit questionable…

quickness was one of the most OP things in the game… it was making some on the edge skills hardly over the top when using quickness (unload, heartseeker, 100blades, …)

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

YES 75% = 326 players

326?? i find that exaggerated. I dont see a number of ppl in this forum..no proof of that number whatsoever

no keep 50% = 6 players (they are wither a bunker or ele btw)

Unnessesary text is parenthesis..! Please remove it!! you try to set a point rather than ask for a poll…

50% is fine..What this game needs is a nerf on Bunkers!!!

Best poll ever. xD

Only ~30 replies and already 300+ votes. Sounds legit to me! ^^ If you want anyone to take this serious please think before you post.

Btw I agree with Hawke.6943. 50% is ok because it is less frustrating for new players. Boon hate would be nice though (I main ele and I think this is a necessary nerf although killing bunkers/eles shouldn’t be faceroll).

Yes, it was OP.

There was pretty much no chance for a burst build without quickness to win against an opponent with quickness (if they are equally skilled ofc). Another example is Time Warp. If a single Mesmer with that skill is able to win you a team fight this means it was simply too strong.

I still think some professions (especially warriors) need some kind of compensation but that’s a different topic.

The thing that made me hate quickness the most, wasn’t its effect on combat. It was the quickness res/stomp.

If we are forced to have the res/stomp mechanic in game, it seems pointless to have to fight up against quickness with it.

In terms of combat, if I got hit by q+100b and didn’t break the stun in time, it means I was either watching tv, the warrior is better than me, or the warrior tried twice as hard to kill me, as I did to live. In any of those cases, the warrior deserved the kill.

Quickness on thief and ranger was very strong in terms of combat though. Its a shame warriors suffered so heavily from a nerf that more than likely wasn’t aimed at them.

I don’t play warrior, but, I am hoping this is the first step to buffing their mobility , survibability and damage. I think the issue was, how could you buff warriors mobility and survivability, that didn’t make the 100b to strong? Now they have nothing, it should be far easier to buff a multitude of things, to create at least a few viable tpvp builds. They don’t have to be made top tier, but a buff to middle tier with a few viable builds, would be an awesome next patch. It would also show a that Anet is firmly moving in a direction, reguardless of how slow they are moving with it.

No. i am fine with it being 50% (though the negative conditions during should be less extreme). If ONE utility ruined these professions that means that there are much more pressing problems… Perhaps instead we should look at why they needed this, and what can be done to fix the game so you are not forced to using this single utility to be competitive.

In reality, the amulets need nerfed.

Cut each amulets stat points in half (or even 2/3), and the variance between a bunker and a glass cannon shrinks. Thus you dont have immortal people that need glass cannon damage to take down. And you dont have burst assassin people that require you to be immortal people to not die instantly. And with that one change, i fixed the bunker/glass cannon dilema. Your welcome.

I am in full support of the decision. Ya, some classes builds are ruined but spike/burst builds are not entertaining to fight against anyway or play as. Always hated quickness right from the beginning but this update actually makes the mechanics alright in my books.

Even if some builds are ruined (ya the 1-2 combo 100b warrior) they will fix other aspects.

I’d rather see hybrid even-damaged combat than just one person flying in spiking a fighting player and running away again.

I support the decision and personally think that quickness has no place in the game, but the devs shouldn’t balance around a single person’s opinion, or two peoples…or three.

The issue I have with the change is that there was no warning, they had a 3 hour Sotg session and not a single kitten was given that day about quickness. It also goes against their anti whack a mole approach. Not like I really pvp anymore, but it still seems extremely frustrating having the devs being so kittening opaque about everything and then blindsiding people with changes.

Quickness nerf was warranted.
It wasnt about the nerf, it was the failure to even recognize the dependency on quickness and the weaknesses of the warrior class had, and thus, the lack of corresponding buffs or “incorrect buffs”. Thinking that doubling banner buffs would introduce new builds is fatally wrong since banner warrant a mechanic rework. The lack of condition cleanses isnt the only weakness warrior had (it is a huge weakness though). Majority of the weapon sets need some rethinking.

Warriors: The Yamcha of GW2.

Quickness nerf was okay. Time-warp is balanced, thieves are fine with the signet. Even banner warrior “can” be viable. Though it’s not the quickness itself that ruins the warrior. It’s the class overall, which was based on 1 utility. Now A-Net has time to work restructure it. Guess we have to wait another month, but better than the old ninja-quickness.