Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

Sorry, but if you leave for any reason you’ll get dishonor, no matter the length of time.

Quick summarize of everything so far:
You get Dishonor for leaving the pvp match (even in the preparing phase) in any way for whatever time (relog, dc, afk -> kick, …) after the new patch hits.

This post is about the fact, that you get Dishonor for a short dc, like it can happen sometimes, being punished for it instantly and the results of that
- afkers or whatever are not part of this discussion.

Pros:
- You impact the match negatively through your action (wanted or not), so you get punished for it
- Everyone should get handled equally, so no matter how long you did not show up, you get the full punishment

Cons:
- Player is not encouraged to reconnect, because the game is counted as a loss for him while playing solo, letting the rest of the team 4v5 and a 99% guaranteed loose for them either
- If you play with a premade team (friends, competitive team,… ), you reconnect and finish the match, but your teammates have to wait for you until you can play all together again a next match – you need to wait until your dishonored runs out.

For me personally the cons are too strong.
If I forgot something just post it, I will add it.
Please keep it civil and let us convince the devs to think about this all a second time.

But what is the limit for the “instant” reconnect?

People will slower internet would not be able to reconnect “instantly”.

They need to draw the line somewhere, and it is better to just say no to everyone.

lordkrall.7241:

But what is the limit for the “instant” reconnect?

People will slower internet would not be able to reconnect “instantly”.

They need to draw the line somewhere, and it is better to just say no to everyone.

Well, somewhere you need to draw a line, but just saying no to everyone is the wrong way. You don’t get 10 years in prison for beating someone but maybe for killing – everywhere is a line that is fair.

I won lot’s of matches where someone got a dc and reconnected fast.
If you get instantly dishonor for dc’ing it would screw over all the other 4 guys because there is no reason for you to reconnect then and try to win – so they gain a loose…

But where to draw the line?
How long would you have?

lordkrall.7241:

But where to draw the line?
How long would you have?

I would say ~1 minute. That is enough if you get disconnected, start the game again and load into the map.
I need less most times because my dc’s i get have nothing to do with my internetconnection – either it’s their servers or the coding of the client, so i can instantly restart the game and i’m in again, I have no clue what is causing those disconnects. EVERY OTHER CONNECTION ON MY COMPUTER IS STABLE DURING GW2 DISCONNECTS PLZ ANET FIX YOUR GAME.

1 minute 4v5 is 80% of the times not a loss (at least from my experience), but the time should be decided after trying different ones out.

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

I would say ~1 minute.

Personally I think you can be even more generous here.

In the end, with the dishonor system you want people to encourage to stay in the game and play while punish leavers. If the players get punish at the moment they leave the match, they don’t have any incentive anymore to come back and continue playing.

Your team is leading, and after your dc you know, with your help your team could still win? Why bother getting back into the game, when you have already lost 3 points?

Personally I think the bigger problem are people flaming and not leaving the spawn point anyway. Those people should get punished, not people dc’ing.

Teutos.8620:

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

I would say ~1 minute.

Personally I think you can be even more generous here.

In the end, with the dishonor system you want people to encourage to stay in the game and play while punish leavers. If the players get punish at the moment they leave the match, they don’t have any incentive anymore to come back and continue playing.

Your team is leading, and after your dc you know, with your help your team could still win? Why bother getting back into the game, when you have already lost 3 points?

Personally I think the bigger problem are people flaming and not leaving the spawn point anyway. Those people should get punished, not people dc’ing.

Ah yes, the AFKers. We should definitely have the /report system updated with AFK-er.

Dirame.8521:

Ah yes, the AFKers. We should definitely have the /report system updated with AFK-er.

Wouldn’t call them AFKers since most of them are active on their keyboard “lecturing” their teammates about what they have done wrong

Pls keep it only about the DC topic, nothing else. This threat should give the devs something to think about. Open another one for afk players and stuff

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

I would say ~1 minute. That is enough if you get disconnected, start the game again and load into the map.

But what about people with slower connections? They might not have the time to get back in with that time. So why should they punish people with worse connections more than people with good ones?

And that is the thing. Either they punish everyone equally or they don’t punish people at all.

Systems like “Dishonor”, in every game I have played, is craptastic. There is no solution. You either have the craptastic system or you do not.

lordkrall.7241:

But what about people with slower connections? They might not have the time to get back in with that time. So why should they punish people with worse connections more than people with good ones?

Because short DC = decent chances to win, DC for the half of the match = guaranteed loss unless enemies are braindead.

And that is the thing. Either they punish everyone equally or they don’t punish people at all.

So you consider IRL there should be death sentence for any crime ( even throwing an empty soda can on a road) cause this is “fair”? Lol

I dont not agree with this, given how many players get dc for no reason. I think if you come back with in 2mins you should not get a dishonor. Esp if your teams still ends up winning the match.

First of all, the title of this topic is wrong. Dishonor will not catch everyone. Take me for example, I no longer PvP, so dishonor can never catch me if I never PvP.

Second, the dishonor is a good measure to punish the leavers. Lots of players and many leavers complained about the 4v5 situation. Now there is a good solve to this. There is no point in forcing any player to rejoin the game and create more rage (with verbal abuse) on him from other players, when he/she can be punished with dishonor, and be left back to PvE for a while to calm down.

Acrisor.8097:

First of all, the title of this topic is wrong. Dishonor will not catch everyone. Take me for example, I no longer PvP, so dishonor can never catch me if I never PvP.

Second, the dishonor is a good measure to punish the leavers. Lots of players and many leavers complained about the 4v5 situation. Now there is a good solve to this. There is no point in forcing any player to rejoin the game and create more rage (with verbal abuse) on him from other players, when he/she can be punished with dishonor, and be left back to PvE for a while to calm down.

1) the title has to be like this so that as many players as possible read it
2) dishonor is made for this problem, but it’s not a solution to just give everyone
penalty for real dc’s – I know NO SINGLE GAME that does this.

Making it instant dishonor will make a disincentive to trying to get back into the game. I know for me the biggest motivation to try to get back into the game asap is knowing what its like to be missing one when someone else dc. Behavior psychology 101….

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/go-with-the-flow/

Seems a bit harsh, can’t even play unranked. I know I’ve had a couple of DCs, and I’m sure people who play pvp regularly had them too. Most games have a grace period to reconnect. Luckily it’s short at first.

I can say easily if i dc and get dishonor I’ll accept that with my whole heart this is better.

I really hope the dishonor degrades quite fast. Like, a DC once or twice a week will only result in 5-10 minute timeouts each time.

If you DC and or leave a match mulitple times a day, then it should stack exponentially. It doesn’t matter if you have bad connection issues, you’re hurting your teammates by you attempting to play on a shotty network.

It’ll be very tough to balance this IMO. But sounds 10000x better than what we already have.

karakurt.8690:

I can say easily if i dc and get dishonor I’ll accept that with my whole heart this is better.

Totally agree with this.

The server mess seems to have been sorted by now – I’ve not noticed any full-map lag recently, certainly the last week but probably longer. Can’t be sure, because it’s only of note as it happens, but it really does look like it’s been fixed at last.

This means that disconnects will be on the player’s end… and if you don’t have a reliable connection, you really shouldn’t be ruining other peoples’ chances by playing ranked matches.
As long as the dishonour has very little effect – and goes away fastest – for players who infrequently disconnect (because yeah unintentional disconnects can happen to anyone), I’ll be happy enough.
Anyone who is regularly ruining other players’ fun really should be locked out for extended periods. Your nets are misbehaving on a day? Don’t PvP – or at least join custom arenas or something.

I’m not really worried about dishonor i think is worst -3 points in ladder if you get 1 sec. DC.

With new score, an average win is +1 so if you win 3 matches (40 min of play) and you get 1 sec of DC you lose everything.

I hope you can give us a some amount of time to reconnect fast. I find this penalty too heavy with the new score system.

I agree that disconnect/reconnect should not give dishonor. Instead it should reduce your teams % chance of winning as detailed in yesterdays blog post.

It’d still suck if you can’t get reconnected before the match ends, but there’s no way around that.

Nabrok.9023:

I agree that disconnect/reconnect should not give dishonor. Instead it should reduce your teams % chance of winning as detailed in yesterdays blog post.

It’d still suck if you can’t get reconnected before the match ends, but there’s no way around that.

And what about the team that had to play 4v5 for the time their ally was disconnected? Are they just meant to accept that, through no fault of their own, they have a serious disadvantage?

cheese.4739:

Nabrok.9023:

I agree that disconnect/reconnect should not give dishonor. Instead it should reduce your teams % chance of winning as detailed in yesterdays blog post.

It’d still suck if you can’t get reconnected before the match ends, but there’s no way around that.

And what about the team that had to play 4v5 for the time their ally was disconnected? Are they just meant to accept that, through no fault of their own, they have a serious disadvantage?

The disadvantage could be represented by a reduced chance to win for the match scoring calculations.

For example if you scored 300 in a match where the odds are 50/50 you lose 1 point. But, if you had a disconnect and that lowered the odds to a bit under 60/40 against, you would not lose any points. This system is detailed in yesterdays blog post.

Scoring 300 in a 4v5, especially when it’s only 4v5 part of the time, is not unreasonable.

Edit to add: There is a potential for exploit here … leave a winning game and come back to deflate your chance of winning and thus get more points. To counter that, the disconnected player should not be able to gain more than 1 point, and perhaps just 0.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Xista.7391:

I really hope the dishonor degrades quite fast. Like, a DC once or twice a week will only result in 5-10 minute timeouts each time.

This is exactly how it works. A clean record will only get a few minute timeout for queue dodging, and disconnects are about fifteen minutes, starting from when you disconnected. If you reconnect and keep playing, you’ll already have waited out some of the time by the end of the game.

i just can laugh…

I have every single day lag problems… ppl are warping and teleporting all arround, I wrote to the support and finaly we found the problem (after they tried to convince me 5 times Antivir is the problem). I Have Paketloss somewhere in the telia network (exactly on the ninth hop) and the support told me to write my provider. In the end it’s probably a overloaded intersection in frankfurt and bigger services like youtube or twitch pay more for their servers, so they get prioritised and some gw2 players get paketloss, and in the end lags. Thats why i don’t have them constantly and most the time during primetime…

Soo… the support sent me to my provider with the excuse “we can’t do anything, contact ur provider”, my provider sent me with the same excuse back to the gw2 support and the result is, I can’t play decent, sometimes i’m even unable to log in. So it sometimes happens that I start playing soloq or teamq and during the match my lags start and I dc. In the future I’ll get the next punishment, I’ll collect dishonor with every single dc, introduced by u. And maybe can’t play as soon as my lags stopped.

I don’t know what I should say… I want my money back for all gems I have ever bought with real money…

In any case people should be notified about their punishment because lots of players dont read the forum posts and have no idea that they were punished for their behavior. I am telling you this because thats what happened when you removed the rank point gain for capping a point: in hotjoin people still wait on the capture points in groups of 5 because they think they get something out of it. But it only hinders their rank point acquistion

Nabrok.9023:

cheese.4739:

Nabrok.9023:

I agree that disconnect/reconnect should not give dishonor. Instead it should reduce your teams % chance of winning as detailed in yesterdays blog post.

It’d still suck if you can’t get reconnected before the match ends, but there’s no way around that.

And what about the team that had to play 4v5 for the time their ally was disconnected? Are they just meant to accept that, through no fault of their own, they have a serious disadvantage?

The disadvantage could be represented by a reduced chance to win for the match scoring calculations.

For example if you scored 300 in a match where the odds are 50/50 you lose 1 point. But, if you had a disconnect and that lowered the odds to a bit under 60/40 against, you would not lose any points. This system is detailed in yesterdays blog post.

Scoring 300 in a 4v5, especially when it’s only 4v5 part of the time, is not unreasonable.

Edit to add: There is a potential for exploit here … leave a winning game and come back to deflate your chance of winning and thus get more points. To counter that, the disconnected player should not be able to gain more than 1 point, and perhaps just 0.

But with matchmaking improvements, we should pretty quickly be hoping for regular players to all be at 50% chance to win anyway.
The ‘chance to win’ stuff only exists to encourage people to play to the end of difficult games, and to reward them well for managing to win these. For example, if a non-premade runs into an organised, 5-player party, they probably deserve more recognition than the premade would do if it stomped them.

A 4v5 is not (and can not be) a fair match. No amount of tweaking of rewards/ranking calculation can fix this.
Therefore, 4v5 needs to happen as little as possible – and one way to do this is to stop high-risk players, who disconnect regularly – maliciously or not – from disrupting play.

The whole aim of ranked PvP is to win matches and improve your ranking among players; to win matches and show off that you win matches. Decreasing someone’s chances of winning, by reducing their team size, can’t be compensated for by making their loss slightly less damaging.

If you are getting regular disconnects, and so missing parts of matches, stop playing until the problem goes away. It’s not just you that gets the loss statistic for it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Your current timeout is now inside the PvP panel, and players are warned with exactly how long their timeout will be when they try to decline or leave a match.

Is dishonored now changed in any sense, so for example that you don’t need 3 stacks of it that it really punishes you?
So how exactly would it play out if we say you get a dc, and in the game after that you get another one and so on. How is the scala?

WoW gives you a minute or two to log back in before disconnecting. This includes if you are in a queue, in a match, in a dungeon or raid, etc.

kitten .9460:

WoW gives you a minute or two to log back in before disconnecting. This includes if you are in a queue, in a match, in a dungeon or raid, etc.

Every game does this or more.
Every but gw2 – esportz we come

given how kittened up the servers are the already mere pvp population is gonna be halved by dc→dishonor.

You need a grace period. When playing with friends/team if someone gets a random dc that’s 15 min wait for whole party. I don’t want to have to wait or ask friends to wait for something unintentional.

I am actually happy with this change. If you leave the match, whether it is your fault or not, you hurt the other 4 players. If you left on purpose, then you deserve the punishment. If you get dc, then the timeout is also good. No sense in hurting an additional 4 people while your internet is acting up.

Or some kind of feature like in other games, where you can vote on what happened – so player dc’s, team gets the option to give him the debuff or not – premates (and nice teammates) can prevent dishonor, or vote to give it to you. Maybe with an internal timer that goes off every 30 seconds the player doesn’t reappear or so, that you can vote against it the time you think is reasonable a player can dc and then afterwards you can punish him for being away longer.

shag.3415:

You need a grace period. When playing with friends/team if someone gets a random dc that’s 15 min wait for whole party. I don’t want to have to wait or ask friends to wait for something unintentional.

Timeout starts as soon as you dc, though? So it’s likely to be down to 5-10 minute wait unless it happens riiiight at the end of the match. Folks can go to the loo or get a drink or have a smoke or… any of the other bunch of things that tend to create breaks between queues anyway.

If there’s someone in your party disconnecting regularly enough that the timeout is significant… why does it matter if you queue with them? They’ll probably just disconnect throughout the match and leave you 4v5 anyway! ^__^

These changes are bad, 90% of the leavers I see are because of disconnects not afks/ragequits, like 8% of leaves happen in games that are already conclusively lost and only like 2% are actual ragequits that hurt the game.

This change will just cause the actual leavers to afk ingame while only the disconnecters will be punished. I, like many others get dcs from time to time and while my connection might be somewhat to blame, I think Anets servers are largely at fault as like other people have said it doesn’t happen to me in other games or affect the rest of my internet. We are already punished with an increased chance to lose which will be factored into our mmr and now we are getting punished triple, increased chance to lose, mmr penalty, and timeouts, all for a problem that is at least somewhat related to your servers while actual quitters only get punished once.

The match queue prompt wont help the majority of the problem either. Personally when I dc it is on map loading. All you had to do was make that ready up button that has been in the game for 2 years work, if someone doesn’t ready up by the time the pre match runs out then delay the match until a replacement is found, if players ready up earlier then begin the match earlier.

And you need to reconsider another thing, if i get a DC for 1 sec. what’s the point to reconnect if i have the max loss + dishonor?

I simply leave the match without come back, instead trying to reconnect and try to win the game or try have a close game.

Of course if players play alone.

If people play together probably they will try to reconnect but u have always an heavy penalty and if you win the game you are not really happy but mad.

MarkPhilips.5169:

And you need to reconsider another thing, if i get a DC for 1 sec. what’s the point to reconnect if i have the max loss + dishonor?

I simply leave the match without come back, instead trying to reconnect and try to win the game or try have a close game.

Of course if players play alone.

Yeah if you play alone, you will simply don’t reconnect and do something else in the meantime – and if you play as a team your teammates are kittened because they have to wait for another game with you cuz of dishonor….

style.6173:

I am actually happy with this change. If you leave the match, whether it is your fault or not, you hurt the other 4 players.

It also hurts the leaver to the point that the leaves are factored into their ranking. If you lose ranking based on a 4v5 then you will get games that are under your skill level in the future and quickly get the ranking back, the leavers are equally likely to be on the other team. Everyone has to deal with 4v5s, good players manage to climb regardless because it doesn’t affect their rating on the long term.

cheese.4739:

If there’s someone in your party disconnecting regularly enough that the timeout is significant… why does it matter if you queue with them? They’ll probably just disconnect throughout the match and leave you 4v5 anyway! ^__^

Do you have friends? can you not understand why some people might want to play with their friends even though they might not have stable internet? It is just like queueing with bad players, you do it for fun and you accept the risk of them being bad or disconnecting.

zELEVENz.6937:

cheese.4739:

If there’s someone in your party disconnecting regularly enough that the timeout is significant… why does it matter if you queue with them? They’ll probably just disconnect throughout the match and leave you 4v5 anyway! ^__^

Do you have friends? can you not understand why some people might want to play with their friends even though they might not have stable internet? It is just like queueing with bad players, you do it for fun and you accept the risk of them being bad or disconnecting.

This, and something else – i know a lot of people (me included) that ONLY get in gw2 thos disconnects. NOWHERE ELSE (any other game, tcp/udp connection…)
Something like instant dishonor on dc will screw over a lot of people

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

lordkrall.7241:

But what about people with slower connections? They might not have the time to get back in with that time. So why should they punish people with worse connections more than people with good ones?

Because short DC = decent chances to win, DC for the half of the match = guaranteed loss unless enemies are braindead.

And that is the thing. Either they punish everyone equally or they don’t punish people at all.

So you consider IRL there should be death sentence for any crime ( even throwing an empty soda can on a road) cause this is “fair”? Lol

You’re seriously comparing an MMO to IRL death sentence? The disconnect penalty isn’t nearly that extreme…Having this across the board will greatly separate the users who are constantly getting dc’d minutes at a time. Like the above have said, not fair for everyone else who have to put up with that.
A higher rating will (hopefully) remove you from that croud.

Saiyan.1704:

You’re seriously comparing an MMO to IRL death sentence? The disconnect penalty isn’t nearly that extreme…

No, just an extreme example of equal punishment for everyone =LAME.

Like the above have said, not fair for everyone else who have to put up with that.

There is nothing fair in denying the whole team of winnig because 1 person DC for a couple of seconds and just gave up since he’ll get punished anyway. Why is it so bad to keep at least someone happy instead of making everyone unhappy?

What ANet should do:

As soon as you left a game, either rage quit or disconnected, a count down for 1 minute is set. When you log into the game or change map, there will be a modal dialog saying:

“You have recently left a competitive PvP game! You have X seconds to rejoin the game to avoid getting dishonored. Dishonor buff will prevent you from playing PvP.”
Button: “Join game”, “Ignore and get Dishonored”

The count down will keep counting down while the user is not in a match.

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re seriously comparing an MMO to IRL death sentence? The disconnect penalty isn’t nearly that extreme…

No, just an extreme example of equal punishment for everyone =LAME.

Not much different compared to other MMO’s who are “deserters” when exiting a game. Punishments like these are in every pvp mmo.
“Everyone unhappy” With all due respect, you and the few people QQing about it here don’t represent the entire pvp community.

Saiyan.1704:

Not much different compared to other MMO’s who are “deserters” when exiting a game. Punishments like these are in every pvp mmo.

Yes, but not on this level.
Every esports game gives you time to reconnect, and after that time ran out you get punished.

Saiyan.1704:

“Everyone unhappy” With all due respect, you and the few people QQing about it here don’t represent the entire pvp community.

No, not just me and the few people QQing about it here , it’s the teams who will have to fight 4v5 the whole match instead of 1 min or smth and will get less points = less rank thx to the new dishonor.

zELEVENz.6937:

Everyone has to deal with 4v5s, good players manage to climb regardless because it doesn’t affect their rating on the long term.

*nobody should have to deal with 4v5s*

It’s as simple as that.

Allowing 4v5 to exist is:
1) not okay.
2) see 1).

As has been said, by devs, in this thread: the timeout for leaving a single match is short, and the dishonour will wear off relatively quickly.
One DC? It’ll make very little difference to your play session, maybe a ten minute wait before queueing again, and the dishonour will presumably stop affecting your MMR as soon as it stops affecting your timeout-for-DC length.
From the info we have, it doesn’t sound like dishonour affects leaderboard/ladder rating at all - it just makes players with dishonour more likely to get matched against each other, so that the dedicated trolls can just afk at each other all day while the rest of us actually play the game.

So yeah players will be forgiven for a single DC - of course they happen sometimes - but there is no way you can spin it as fair to let someone turn a single match into a 4v5 without punishment.

Do you have friends? can you not understand why some people might want to play with their friends even though they might not have stable internet? It is just like queueing with bad players, you do it for fun and you accept the risk of them being bad or disconnecting.

And is it okay to give people boring, pointless matches, when the system is aiming to match everyone with a 50% win chance? Is it okay for the system to allow them to get a free win because it matched them against your 4v5 team?

Of course it’s fun to play with friends - but if one of those friends can’t stay connected, they shouldn’t be allowed in ranked PvP. It doesn’t just mess up their own rank/rating (which they might be okay with). It doesn’t just mess up their team’s rank/rating (which, as you say, some teams might be okay with). It also messes things up for everyone who fights against them, creating less entertaining matches and giving them much stronger wins than they may deserve.