Guild Wars 2

So it is a server issue, but it only effects certain people? Wouldn’t that suggest that it was not a server issue?

Evan, the solutions for fixing the main issues for bad pvp games seem to be really great and I think they’ll work. Technically really well thought out. Hard to cheat or abuse.

If you look at the psychologic side the solution isn’t as complete as it is from the technical view.

Why?:
Old system:
Reasons for a bad experience were:
dc – fault on client side – player is sad – blames his internet service provider,ddos, or pc and continues
dc – fault due to gw2 – player blames anet, plays the next game wich is good and everything is ok again
dc – left because of rage quit, I think these people blame everyone, maybe the matchmaking.

New system.
dc – fault on client side – player is sad – blames Anet for a dishonor stack, maybe gets offended if the stack can be seen on him often.
dc – fault due to gw2 – player blames anet, each time more
dc – left because of rage quit – with the new system the rage quitter should learn that even a game that is not won could have been a good game. If he quits he gets punished. That works!

Games are about fun. The only reason you leave a game is if you don’t have fun. You should not give the people a reason to blame especially anet for not having fun.

So technically the step is huge and good. Put some fun on top. I’ve seem some suggestions in the thread. Get psychological as good as in game design.

tanztante.6532:

This is not a rare incident. We train 3 days a week and not a day goes by with server delays, disconnects and horrible server performance, rendering blinks and ports and movement skills unusable (rubberbanding), even delays up to 5 seconds happening every 10 seconds, continued by multiple timeouts in both teams at the same time. fix your servers before punishing people for something YOU caused.

If it’s seriously as bad as you claim, then why are you playing this game???

Who plays a game seriously that does what you say?

It’s very simple…either….

1. Stop your whining and exaggerating the problem…or
2. Stop playing if you constantly get kicked through no fault of your own.

This game has been plagued by rage quitters long enough. It’s a far bigger problem than the isolated instances of inconvenience you clowns are exaggerating.

Lose the kitten and look at the bigger picture.

SPESHAL.9106:

tanztante.6532:

This is not a rare incident. We train 3 days a week and not a day goes by with server delays, disconnects and horrible server performance, rendering blinks and ports and movement skills unusable (rubberbanding), even delays up to 5 seconds happening every 10 seconds, continued by multiple timeouts in both teams at the same time. fix your servers before punishing people for something YOU caused.

If it’s seriously as bad as you claim, then why are you playing this game???

Who plays a game seriously that does what you say?

It’s very simple…either….

1. Stop your whining and exaggerating the problem…or
2. Stop playing if you constantly get kicked through no fault of your own.

This game has been plagued by rage quitters long enough. It’s a far bigger problem than the isolated instances of inconvenience you clowns are exaggerating.

Lose the kitten and look at the bigger picture.

yea rage quitters should be punished but no need to push other players that reconnect with in 1 min and esp if there team win the match. No need for auto loss if they come back really quickly 1 min grace period should suffice.

If some dc for 1 min then come back quickly alot of the time they can still win the match. Also it doesnt ruin the whole game for everyone else. Anet current proposal give no incentive for a player to try to get back in the game. All we are asking is a 1min grace period. Rage quiters will still be punished.

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

lordkrall.7241:

If “many times” it was a server issue, wouldn’t that mean that EVERYONE would be disconnected?

No

This…
Sometimes I even notice that dodge does not consume endurance. 30 sec later I am disconnected.
Now I can reconnect without waiting and on 10 sec I am back on server.
This means the following points:
- for a particular reason connection between my client (game on my computer)and the server is lost(I suspect high packet loss due to unaccessibility of Anet server in Europe)
- for an unknown reason the client is not able to reconnect to the server and it is not a pure network issue as relaunching the client make it possible to reconnect immediately.

I think something is also wrong on the client losing connection and unable to quick reconnect.

lordkrall.7241:

So it is a server issue, but it only effects certain people? Wouldn’t that suggest that it was not a server issue?

Also no.
If the server has problems in any ways, it doesn’t mean every connection is affected.
So some players could have issues, others not.

Kicast.1459:

I think something is also wrong on the client losing connection and unable to quick reconnect.

I believe so too. A lot seems to hint at this or something similar.

People claim again and again that Anet server are in Germany for Europe.
I would like then to understand the following:
I switched this evening on several maps and look at server IP:
list obtained:
206.127.146.83
206.127.159.74
206.127.159.89
206.127.146.83
All of them belongs to US region according to all Whois site I tried:
http://www.seocentro.com/tools/online/ip-country.html
http://check-host.net/ip-info?host=206.127.159.74
….

Could someone explain how it can be germany ?

lordkrall.7241:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Many times are a server issues, not players issue.

I don’t see why a player needs to be punished if many times the main problem is the server and not the connection.

Source?

If “many times” it was a server issue, wouldn’t that mean that EVERYONE would be disconnected?

Exactly, people just like to make excuses.

There are people with bad connections, and those people RUIN the game for everyone else and do not deserve to play competitively, especially with people who do not agree to allow a “sketchy connection person” on there team (If I had an option, if you have bad connection, you get off my team).

When I lose games because my team is down a person due to them dcing or logging out, its very frustrating. Especially when you know you could have won and that your also on a massive losing streak.

I’m all for anet punishing people with bad connections, and am all for anet punishing them harder.

People don’t realize that we live in a time where we have smooth internet, but if your one of those people still living in weird conditions where you cant get smooth internet, than its your fault, not anet, its your fault. We don’t live in the 90s anymore, no more dial up. We are 24 years from the 90s.

Simple minded? Think about the impacts of having someone with poor connection on your team. one, your team lost because of that person. one person could be on a huge lose streak and quit the game because stupid stuff like this happening. one person could quit tpvp because stupid stuff like not punishing those people with bad internet. other two people, who knows, probably play another game and sooner or later will stop pvping because of it or quit the game too. The other team could have been the losers of the game, and because of poor connection guy on the opposing team, they got upscaled in rating and later on face many loses in a row because improper upscale and thus quit the game because losing consecutively game after game (IT AINT FUN LOSING 5+ games in a row).

Those preppy popular kids, they don’t lose 5 games in a row, so they wouldn’t know the feeling. That’s why you cant always go off there ideas, they only experience the good side of tPvP, they don’t experience loss after loss after loss, frustration after frustration after frustration.

uberkingkong.8041:

lordkrall.7241:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Many times are a server issues, not players issue.

I don’t see why a player needs to be punished if many times the main problem is the server and not the connection.

Source?

If “many times” it was a server issue, wouldn’t that mean that EVERYONE would be disconnected?

Exactly, people just like to make excuses.

There are people with bad connections, and those people RUIN the game for everyone else and do not deserve to play competitively, especially with people who do not agree to allow a “sketchy connection person” on there team (If I had an option, if you have bad connection, you get off my team).

When I lose games because my team is down a person due to them dcing or logging out, its very frustrating. Especially when you know you could have won and that your also on a massive losing streak.

I’m all for anet punishing people with bad connections, and am all for anet punishing them harder.

People don’t realize that we live in a time where we have smooth internet, but if your one of those people still living in weird conditions where you cant get smooth internet, than its your fault, not anet, its your fault. We don’t live in the 90s anymore, no more dial up. We are 24 years from the 90s.

Simple minded? Think about the impacts of having someone with poor connection on your team. one, your team lost because of that person. one person could be on a huge lose streak and quit the game because stupid stuff like this happening. one person could quit tpvp because stupid stuff like not punishing those people with bad internet. other two people, who knows, probably play another game and sooner or later will stop pvping because of it or quit the game too. The other team could have been the losers of the game, and because of poor connection guy on the opposing team, they got upscaled in rating and later on face many loses in a row because improper upscale and thus quit the game because losing consecutively game after game (IT AINT FUN LOSING 5+ games in a row).

Those preppy popular kids, they don’t lose 5 games in a row, so they wouldn’t know the feeling. That’s why you cant always go off there ideas, they only experience the good side of tPvP, they don’t experience loss after loss after loss, frustration after frustration after frustration.

Hope this is sarcasm and irony…otherwise …meh..you’re a pretty frightening guy

How about if we make it up to your teammates?

- If you disconnect, you will get Dishonor.
- However, at the end of the match, your teammates get a popup box that allows them to vote to end your Dishonor instantly, if the majority choose to do so.

—> At the very least, you’re dishonoured until the match ends. So there’s no time saved by quitting under any circumstance.

—> You’re playing with friends. They know that you wouldn’t abandon them deliberately. They want you back in their party and ready to fight the next match, so they vote to end your dishonor.

—> You’re playing with randoms. However, you manage to log back in and play well enough that they forgive you for DC’ing. They vote for you.

—> You’re playing with a bad net connection. You find a group of nice people and explain your situation to them, and PVP with them. They vote for you.

—> You’re a jerk and people hate you. You DC, possibly deliberately, possibly accidentally. Your teammates feel you deserve it, so they don’t vote for you. Commence abusive PMs.

So I think letting the teammates decide is a good thing. They are they ones best placed to decide whether your DC has ruined their game or not.

I think you should have 60 sec to get back into the game. The proposed dishonour system is too harsh.

There is nothing here that is going to stop or deter AFKers. If I am in a bad game with hopeless people I am just going to move around a bit and keep from getting dishonour.

TBH I think there would be 50% less 4v5 if Skyhammer was deleted and even less if there was some formula to balance the number of classes per team. Had a game last night where I was on a team with 4 guardians vs a team of Ele and Engi and the guardians could not even touch their health bars. One of the guardians left and everyone else went afk. Had the classes been distributed better no 4v5 or afk situation would have developed.

Rieselle.5079:

How about if we make it up to your teammates?

- If you disconnect, you will get Dishonor.
- However, at the end of the match, your teammates get a popup box that allows them to vote to end your Dishonor instantly, if the majority choose to do so.

—> At the very least, you’re dishonoured until the match ends. So there’s no time saved by quitting under any circumstance.

—> You’re playing with friends. They know that you wouldn’t abandon them deliberately. They want you back in their party and ready to fight the next match, so they vote to end your dishonor.

—> You’re playing with randoms. However, you manage to log back in and play well enough that they forgive you for DC’ing. They vote for you.

—> You’re playing with a bad net connection. You find a group of nice people and explain your situation to them, and PVP with them. They vote for you.

—> You’re a jerk and people hate you. You DC, possibly deliberately, possibly accidentally. Your teammates feel you deserve it, so they don’t vote for you. Commence abusive PMs.

So I think letting the teammates decide is a good thing. They are they ones best placed to decide whether your DC has ruined their game or not.

i think this will be a good compromise?

justin, please take a look? O_O

style.6173:

I am actually happy with this change. If you leave the match, whether it is your fault or not, you hurt the other 4 players. If you left on purpose, then you deserve the punishment. If you get dc, then the timeout is also good. No sense in hurting an additional 4 people while your internet is acting up.

You are right, if you are really pushing to help your team win, then bam get hit with some random disconnect b/c of internet provider issues YOU should be the one who gets punished. Smh. Someone has to take the blame right? Better the person behind the computer that hopes or expects the service they are paying for doesn’t get messed up. I mean come on not everyone has privilege to the best internet lines. And I agree with everyone else, by having a small grace period to return is better than leaving entirely and to never return….Aren’t those the players we are supposed to be punishing?

Justin ODell.9517:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Rieselle.5079:

How about if we make it up to your teammates?

- If you disconnect, you will get Dishonor.
- However, at the end of the match, your teammates get a popup box that allows them to vote to end your Dishonor instantly, if the majority choose to do so.

—> At the very least, you’re dishonoured until the match ends. So there’s no time saved by quitting under any circumstance.

—> You’re playing with friends. They know that you wouldn’t abandon them deliberately. They want you back in their party and ready to fight the next match, so they vote to end your dishonor.

—> You’re playing with randoms. However, you manage to log back in and play well enough that they forgive you for DC’ing. They vote for you.

—> You’re playing with a bad net connection. You find a group of nice people and explain your situation to them, and PVP with them. They vote for you.

—> You’re a jerk and people hate you. You DC, possibly deliberately, possibly accidentally. Your teammates feel you deserve it, so they don’t vote for you. Commence abusive PMs.

So I think letting the teammates decide is a good thing. They are they ones best placed to decide whether your DC has ruined their game or not.

i think this will be a good compromise?

justin, please take a look? O_O

I’ll pass it along, but it looks potentially exploitable to me…. not necessarily with what we currently have, but with what others have been suggesting for other issues.

Personally, I’d really like to see an honor system. Have high honor, maybe we’re more lenient with certain punishments. Everyone hate you? Enjoy your 3 month ban for queue dodging. OK, maybe that’s a bit absurd. Plus, ever time someone got Skyhammer, my account would get another batch of demerits. :P

aye justin, thanks for the reply!
but what if the voting system is based on probability?
just like the new map voting system that will be in the 2 dec update.

if 4 people vote yes to forgive, then 100% the dishonor is invalidated due to everyone forgiving.

if
3 people vote yes to forgive
1 person vote don’t care
then 3/3
100% dishonor invalidated

if
3 people vote yes to forgive
1 person vote no do not forgive
then 3/4
75% dishonor invalidated,
25% dishonor will remain

if
2 people vote yes to forgive
2 person vote no do not forgive
then 2/4
50% dishonor invalidated,
50% dishonor will remain

if
2 people vote yes to forgive
2 person vote don’t care
then 2/2
100% dishonor invalidated

etc.

how that sound?

this proposal is based on if 3 vote choices are given to the remaining 4 players. vote:
yes, forgive.
no, do not forgive.
do not care, null vote.

well, perhaps that might be too much extra work for justin and team.

Problem here isn’t really, should there be dishonor or not. Of course there should be dishonor.

Problem is, there needs to be a pause feature to let people have a chance to get back into the game.

That way, those sketchy internet people can play freely and if they are that bad where they dc pretty much every game….. People can recognize them and hate them for playing the game due to game pausing every minute, to meet there needs.

Fact is people don’t really care about people who dkittenil it affects them.

You could be for less hate on dishonor, than after you have 10 losses because somebody having poor connection and dcing out of game and caused you to lose matches and next thing you know…. Punish those poor connection people hard!!!
You could be for less dishonor and favored toward people with bad connection… Next thing you know, every game you get with them the game gets paused every min to allow them to comeback.. Guess what, it will start to tick you off.

Those preppy popular kids have a perfect world, they got there team, nothing but good players, nothing bad happens to them, that’s why they could care less.

Look at merging solo que with team que… They start whining now….. Hrmmmm.. Wonder why….. Because it affects them, that’s why.

Justin ODell.9517:

I just wanted to pop here and add that if dishonor for dc becomes a problem like many fear, we can simply reduce or disable that dishonor penalty until the feature gets patched.

This is something new the servers are able to do now… yay! :P

I think both of penalty points on leaderboard and dishonor are very annoying for a short DC.

Justin ODell.9517:

What about multiple people getting dishonor in a single match?
Do we cycle through? Do we show all at once? Do we extend the countdown? A lot of people leave the match asap as well, I’m worried that can make exploiting easier by removing the number of voices. :/

I think it’s fine to have a window saying: “These players disconnected during the match! Do you forgive them?” with a list of players and Yes/No next to each one.

You should be able to click on names to PM them if you want to discuss.

This could be incorporated into a more general anti-abuse scheme, by allowing people to report AFKers, chat abuse, etc.

At the end of the match,

“These players have potential problems. Do you forgive these players?”
Tom – Disconnected (but reconnected): Yes / No
Richard – Disconnected: Yes/No
Harry – Reported for AFK: Yes/No

One question is, who gets a vote?
I guess any players who played the entire match through from start to finish gets to vote.

You’ll get an abusive situation where there’s one player so toxic that he makes the other 4 players quit… but even if he votes NO for everyone, it just makes the outcome the same as the currently proposed system which applies the penalty automatically.

cheese.4739:

zELEVENz.6937:

This change will increase the amount of 4v5s in my opinion as the majority of the 4v5s were due to dcs and this change will give people no incentive to reconnect. You really didn’t understand what I was saying at all ‘giving them much stronger wins than they may deserve’ they deserve the win because in other games they will get 4v5s rather than 5v4s. It balances out in the long run. I get what you are saying about boring matches, though I don’t think this change will help it.

Sure in an ideal world there would be no 4v5s, this change will just make people more frustrated at the game than they already are with momentary dcs and make them less likely to reconnect. It wont solve the problem of rage quits/trolls, we need a report function for that.

You keep saying that 4v5/5v4 is going to happen – well, yes, of course they will.
Statistically, they should happen to everyone an even amount for both being the 4 against 5, and vice versa.

This does not mean we should ever accept an excuse for a 4v5.

This does not mean that anyone should ever go unpunished for causing a 4v5.

The whole point of stopping folks from playing when they’re liable to cause 4v5 matches is to minimise the number of 4v5 matches.
One random DC? Sure, minimal timeout, can start playing again soon.
DC two games in a row? Yeah it might be a good idea to not play for a bit; starting to look like a bit of a risk.

Letting someone keep playing after repeated DCs is no way to run a ranked system – particularly one with PvP as fast-paced as GW2’s can be, with certain key objectives (communes on Temple, lord rush on Foefire) able to drastically change the balance of a match within moments.
One minute to disco, log back in, load up map… that’s a whole minute in which the other team can have won an outnumbered teamfight and backcapped a point, if not more.

With regards to the ’they’ll just not come back in if they get no rewards anyway’:
- If not there for the end of the match, players don’t get reward track progress/rank points/coin. Folks definitely like to get their loot. The only ‘reward’ that may not be granted at all, should the player reconnect, is ladder rating.
- If someone does just alt+f4 out of there because their connection is being unreliable… good for them! This accomplishes the same as stacking up dishonourable timeouts does, but with only one match ruined! ^_^

LoL – this is funny (and awesome) ~

reminds me of what I was hearing that made me first want to play this game…

Justin ODell.9517:

I’ll pass it along, but it looks potentially exploitable to me…. not necessarily with what we currently have, but with what others have been suggesting for other issues.

Personally, I’d really like to see an honor system. Have high honor, maybe we’re more lenient with certain punishments. Everyone hate you? Enjoy your 3 month ban for queue dodging. OK, maybe that’s a bit absurd. Plus, ever time someone got Skyhammer, my account would get another batch of demerits. :P

quick answer…

if the other team isn’t voting it’s definitely not fair

If you disconnect in LOL you can get back in the game no harm done.

Also, if you are not ready at ready up there is no penalty either.

Penalty’s don’t come into effect until you go to character select.

I would look at LOL’s success and work off their system.

Relentliss.2170:

If you disconnect in LOL you can get back in the game no harm done.

This is what I would suggest too, at least lower the current planned penalty for quick reconnects.

Relentliss.2170:

Also, if you are not ready at ready up there is no penalty either.

That is because the matchmaking can adjust quick enough and add another player for the one that left for a quick second roster.
I don’t think this is currently doable for gw2 because of coding and less active playerbase.

Relentliss.2170:

I would look at LOL’s success and work off their system.

Not only lol, because it’s a different game – but it is wise to copy some running systems of other games that success instead of always trying to invent the wheel a second time.

You need to think about WHY other games success and then adopt to the core systems that make an esports game (matchmaking, ranking, competition, rewards (so things to work towards, even if it is only higher ranking that you can show off, and so on …) copy those and then place your gameplay on it.

GW2 has the gameplay but nothing else right now.
And with the coming patch I feel there are not enough core systems for a real competitive gameplay environment also there are some decisions made (this post is about one of them), where I feel they will hurt the game more than they will bring it forwards (but there are others that are good ).

I personally am fully happy with good game play, that’s why I sticked to gw2 since launch (and played gw1 before that).

But there is always room for hope and improvement (thats why this post exists), I am glad that pvp get’s some love again, and will take whatever is coming even if I think some of it could have been done better.

Another kludgy system implemented by A-net? No way!

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

But there is always room for hope and improvement (thats why this post exists), I am glad that pvp get’s some love again, and will take whatever is coming even if I think some of it could have been done better.

Here is what I think they could copy from LOL.

Queue – You queue for game.

Ready Up – Then when 10 people are found they click ready. If 1 doesn’t click the game takes 30 sec to try and find another.

It balances out people as best it can based on Rank as it takes you to the next screen.

Character Select – There you have 60 sec to pick one of your characters and build lay outs to play and can adjust your teams classes. No penalties occur till you enter the character select screen. From then on dishonour applies.

Game – Game starts.

Disconnects – You have 60 sec to reconnect with no penalty. Can do this twice.

Positive Reinforcement
There should be a system of rewards for being a good team player instead of focusing on punishments for being a bad team player. You could simply get a currency for every top stat you get that could be used to buy boosts, skins and/or ascended jewellery, similar to the guild mission currency. Therefore if your losing you could still focus on getting a top stat or two and get something out of playing. This focus on punishment is not going to improve the general mood of pvp.

zELEVENz.6937:

These changes are bad, 90% of the leavers I see are because of disconnects not afks/ragequits, like 8% of leaves happen in games that are already conclusively lost and only like 2% are actual ragequits that hurt the game.

This change will just cause the actual leavers to afk ingame while only the disconnecters will be punished. I, like many others get dcs from time to time and while my connection might be somewhat to blame, I think Anets servers are largely at fault as like other people have said it doesn’t happen to me in other games or affect the rest of my internet. We are already punished with an increased chance to lose which will be factored into our mmr and now we are getting punished triple, increased chance to lose, mmr penalty, and timeouts, all for a problem that is at least somewhat related to your servers while actual quitters only get punished once.

The match queue prompt wont help the majority of the problem either. Personally when I dc it is on map loading. All you had to do was make that ready up button that has been in the game for 2 years work, if someone doesn’t ready up by the time the pre match runs out then delay the match until a replacement is found, if players ready up earlier then begin the match earlier.

If the Game is lost right to point of no Return , Anet needs to add a “Vote Forfit” Option in addition to the dishonoured system, that way it also avoids wrong Dishonouring players from these Out right No return lost Games.

it will save peoples time and Arguements + stress from these types of Instant loss matches and will stop new players joining an already lost game.

but this option Should only Appear if the opposing team is Negitive 250 difference between the winning team.

if the loosing team chooses to forfit , the winning team still get progress rewards + A set amount of Exp (not the full exp gained for winning a match),

(this Exludes Custom arenas/Tpvp) will only effect solo que because in the other Pvp modes this methord can be abused , swapping teams and all in custom area can force Rewards .

but if it only effects solo arena , with random people joining and lack of Teamspeak it makes the forfit option Viable because it can’t Be orgainised to abuse this forfit system.

same with you Ready up option the match shouldn’t start unless everyone Ready’s up.
but that can create even longer wait times for the match to start , so this should only effect Tpvp , not solo arena.

The dishonor system is a very bad idea! Especially if it activates on disconnects! Like half of EU has severe lag issues right now with huge lag spikes and disconnects all over the place.
The even dumber thing?
Dishonor for rerolling to another class? ANET ARE YOU kittenED?

this pretty much sums up my gw2 experience

well….

with dishonor buff incoming, when someone gets disconnected they should atleast be given around 5mins of reconnection, then gets dishonoured but yea… for players who gets disconnected everytime, i doubt that player will ever be able to play pvp if dishonor stacks.

I wonder about how much dishonor someone will get after one dc. If i get dc’d once for like 2-3 days in a row, do i get troubles playing? If i dc twice a day, is this gonna get me out of pvp for some time already? Because this is the worst that i had so far

Btw if i dc while beeing in a match, im propably the most angry person in that moment :p. I ususally come back as fast as possible, but coming back for a “loss” even if we still manage to win after reconnecting…feels like a waste of time i think. At least hardly motivating.
What about giving at least +1 to the one coming back if they still win after that since this is not impossible!^^

robertul.3679:

The even dumber thing?
Dishonor for rerolling to another class? ANET ARE YOU kittenED?

I’m very much in favour of encouraging people to play as the class they queue as:

1) It lets us have profession-specific MMR. It’s frustrating to try out a new profession in PvP and get stomped repeatedly because you got matched against players who had much more experience with their own classes – and ruin your account-wide MMR and leaderboard position at the same time. With free rerolls, you can’t have profession-specific MMR without a high risk of exploitation.

2) It stops the game from becoming Reroll Wars 2. You’re meant to run a decent teamcomp that will be able to take on other teamcomps, not specifically build to counter exactly who you’re up against. If matchmaking is trying not to put multiple repeated professions into the same team, one of the only reasons for rerolling that I’m currently okay with will be gone – folks queueing solo shouldn’t end up with multiple Thieves on their teams, for example.

I guess you make a good point about the cons being too strong. I think maybe it would be more balanced if, yes, hand out the dishonor no matter what, but if they reconnect and manage to help the team win, then they should get the personal win too? After all, like you said, we don’t want to disincentive dc’ers from coming back and potentially making a comeback.