Guild Wars 2

I just wanted to say that OP first ignored war horn in his original post, so it is ironic that most of the talk here is about war horn.

Ranger war horn is good. If anything the problem with ranger war horn is that you have to take Axe (which does no damage) or Sword ( an unnatural self root).

I would also like to correct OP by noting that Necromancer’s flesh Wurm is not capable of a vertical teleport, which means that necromancer has the worst mobility by far. They have to either give up their utilities (and blow a stun break) just to get swiftness, or give up their condition removal to take war horn. Guardians have permanent swiftness on Staffs, teleports and leaps on other weapons, and swiftness on shouts that serve other functions than just swiftness.

nekretaal.6485:

I just wanted to say that OP first ignored war horn in his original post, so it is ironic that most of the talk here is about war horn.

Ranger war horn is good. If anything the problem with ranger war horn is that you have to take Axe (which does no damage) or Sword ( an unnatural self root).

I would also like to correct OP by noting that Necromancer’s flesh Wurm is not capable of a vertical teleport, which means that necromancer has the worst mobility by far. They have to either give up their utilities (and blow a stun break) just to get swiftness, or give up their condition removal to take war horn. Guardians have permanent swiftness on Staffs, teleports and leaps on other weapons, and swiftness on shouts that serve other functions than just swiftness.

Uh you obviously didn’t read my original post since Warhorn is mentioned in it. Ranger Warhorn is really bad currently. The #4 skill makes it not worth taking, and the swiftness uptime from it is about 40% on a very long cooldown. It’s far inferior to both the Necromancer and Warrior Warhorn.

Also, the Necromancer Wurm is capable of vertical ports, the same as Thief Shadowstep or Mesmer Blink is. So, please stop saying things that aren’t true.

infantrydiv.1620:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Personally I think that a ranger is the hardest class to escape from when your health is low. Imagine when they have more mobility.

Thief is obviously harder to escape from when your health is low. Ranger depends entirely on where you are and what build the Ranger is running. Many classes can escape from Ranger focus fire just by using one port/blink (for example in Khylo, by porting to a different level of the clocktower, or on Niflhel by porting to a ledge and moving out of line of sight.

Sure, if you are standing out in the open next to a longbow Ranger with 2k health left, the chances of you getting away aren’t very high. But then again, I’m not sure why it would be fair to be able to escape from that situation to begin with.

You’re indeed partly right, but the rangers can do much more damage from a long range, and I found that sometimes harder to mitigate than a thief’s damage when my health was low. I talk about LB rangers ofc. Maybe only on Kyhlo a thief is much more dangerous, but especially on Legacy they’re at least equal.

Ithilwen.1529:

I offered a fact, and 3 educated opinions. You haven’t responded to any of them.

At the risk of being a bit of a bore… I stated that ranger already has a speed signet. By implication, there’s no need for a speed / mobility buff since you already have one.

I opined that Ranger is clearly optimized as a hunter / sniper. Such fighters typically ambush and so the genre doesn’t really lend itself to high mobility.

Further I compared adding high mobility to ranger to adding heavy armor to Mesmer. This was to emphasize the first opinion and hint that adding mobility would make rangers excessively powerful.

Last, I offered my assessment that the behaviour of rangers has a great deal to do with the fact that they are unpopular as team members.

hands sol.4310 a mirror

The mere fact that you are mentioning a movement signet as a supposedly viable form of mobility shows your opinion is not educated, at least when it comes to high tier PvP. Secondly, you make blanket statements about the “behavior of rangers” making them unpopular as team members, which is probably ruder than anything Sol said to you.

Also, this is not Call of Duty. There is no ‘sniper’ role. In fact, Thieves and Mesmers do a far better job of ‘sniping’ people by bursting them from Stealth. Any class in this game can gap close on a Ranger quite easily, and the only map that a Longbow Ranger can really make use of the full range frequently is Legacy of the Foefire. Every other map has multiple LoS spots. If you are being ‘ambushed’ by a Longbow Ranger, which has no stealth upon engage, all that means is that you personally need to work on your situational awareness. The classes that do the ambushing in this game are Mesmer and Thief.

And comparing mobility on Ranger to heavy armor on a mesmer is just a ludicrous comparison you made up that has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever.

The silliest thing about your nonsense arguments is that you are complaining about a spec that doesn’t even see play in top tier. There are many high end players who multiclass and would certainly switch to Ranger if they thought it was powerful enough to help their team. Players like Denshee, ROM, Wakkey, and Blackjack all multi class to help their teams stay in the meta.

Finally, the funniest thing about your posts is you completely ignore how small my proposed changes are. Power Ranger would benefit from these buffs barely at all. It would be a slight mobility buff for them outside of combat and that’s it. Power Rangers cannot afford to take Warhorn because their defense relies heavily on GS block or Dagger 4 offhand. They also rarely go into Wilderness Survival, where Martial Mastery is located ( some do, but the majority of builds I see are 66200 and 60260), and finally just how big of a buff would an 18% movement increase be for a build that is typically staying between mid and home and shooting at people with long range? Not much, imo. The buffs I proposed were mainly targeted at condi Ranger builds that aren’t using Spirits for mobility.

nekretaal.6485:

I just wanted to say that OP first ignored war horn in his original post, so it is ironic that most of the talk here is about war horn.

Ranger war horn is good. If anything the problem with ranger war horn is that you have to take Axe (which does no damage) or Sword ( an unnatural self root).

I would also like to correct OP by noting that Necromancer’s flesh Wurm is not capable of a vertical teleport, which means that necromancer has the worst mobility by far. They have to either give up their utilities (and blow a stun break) just to get swiftness, or give up their condition removal to take war horn. Guardians have permanent swiftness on Staffs, teleports and leaps on other weapons, and swiftness on shouts that serve other functions than just swiftness.

You are joking right? So warhorn is good, just not with the only other two mainhand weapon choices that we have access to…

Lol.

Explain to me how its good?

As far as I can tell:

Hunter’s Call is an extremely low damage skill, in fact, it probably does more damage to yourself if the person you used it on has retaliation.

And Call of the Wild is a blast finisher that grants 15 seconds of fury, might, and swiftness on a 35 second cooldown. 28 when traited.

Keep in mind it only grants 1 stack of might. And the fury and swiftness uptime is 40% untraited, 50% when traited.

Compared to a warrior’s warhorn:

Charge cures cripple, immobilize, and chill, while giving a 66% uptime on swiftness untraited.

If you trait for it, you get a 96% swiftness uptime (12 second boon, 12 second cooldown, 1/2 second cast time)

Call to Arms is a blast finisher that gives a 50% uptime of vigor (75% when traited), and a 30% uptime aoe weakness on enemies (40% when traited).

Also convers conditions into boons when traited (which it always is).

I think we can all agree that in comparison the rangers options for swiftness (in ANY of our builds) come at more of a drawback for less performance than nearly any other class out there?

With the possible exception of traited shouts? But that involves taking a nearly useless utility and its brought for regen NOT swiftness.

Shadelang.3012:

I think we can all agree that in comparison the rangers options for swiftness (in ANY of our builds) come at more of a drawback for less performance than nearly any other class out there?

um
thief has to use initiative sacrificing survivability and dmg
has to sacrifice utility slots for moblity
has to use F1 spell for gap closer
and they have crappiest ranged options in game

should i continue?

Cynz.9437:

Shadelang.3012:

I think we can all agree that in comparison the rangers options for swiftness (in ANY of our builds) come at more of a drawback for less performance than nearly any other class out there?

um
thief has to use initiative sacrificing survivability and dmg
has to sacrifice utility slots for moblity
has to use F1 spell for gap closer
and they have crappiest ranged options in game

should i continue?

Thief mobility is also EXTREMELY good at keeping them alive. They also have the ability to move vertically across a map. Meaning they can cross distances much faster than most classes.

Thief mobility does exactly what its meant to. Im not saying you dont trade off something. But its not something you wouldnt have taken anyway in most cases. Thats because of how blatantly useful it is. Thief mobility is part of what makes them such a massive pain to fight. Also part of why the class is considered one of the most dangerous things on the field.

I dont think ive ever met a thief that actually had an issue reaching his target or getting away as long as he had the awareness to know he NEEDED to get away.

Edit: The f1 you mentioned also has the potential of being one of hte most powerful class mechanics in the game. Being able to be set up to do a large variety of different things on use. Steal factors heavily into most of your top builds last I checked (it has been awhile).

As for needing it to close gaps. You act like thats a drawback. Steal is so powerful when used correctly that youd be a fool NOT to use it to its utmost at the right times. You don’t “sacrifice” steal to close gaps. Its a part of your attacks.

Edit:Edit: Im also fairly certain thieves have more than steal to close gaps with o.O. Im not even gonna mention stealth. You have more than one method of closing gaps. Nearly all of htem are efficient and actually worth taking if you want them.

but you can’t deny the fact that as trade off for all that moblity thieves lose survival (a lot of it in fact) and dmg (ranged especially)

Cynz.9437:

but you can’t deny the fact that as trade off for all that moblity thieves lose survival (a lot of it in fact) and dmg (ranged especially)

Actually I can. Becuase your movement GIVES you survivability. Its a part of it. Theives can actually survive through movement. And they do it every day.

A thief can cover 4200 range instantly. Don’t talk about how they lose survivability lol…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0pVOx7J8PNBNhw9qaz8e83yaFA-T1SBABlqSxDHEgIeAAYp8jo9HQR3wCXAAEMBhhSwcUXBgjAQAAEA25RP6RPaSBExWA-w

Cynz.9437:

but you can’t deny the fact that as trade off for all that moblity thieves lose survival (a lot of it in fact) and dmg (ranged especially)

I’d argue that Thieves trade ‘typical’ means of survival like high healing, high toughness/hp, or boons like protection for survival through stealth or evades.

Thief has mobility built into it’s weapon sets: Dagger 2,3 Sword 2, Shortbow 5, F1. It would be hard to come up with a completely immobile Thief build unless you did something like P/P P/D, which clearly is a nonsensical weapon set. I honestly wouldn’t say that a S/D thief lacks in terms of survival (and actual becomes more survivable than D/P while also gaining more landspeed mobility due to Swiftness on Dodge).

So, no, I don’t agree that Thief trades survivability for mobility. They trade traditional forms of passive survivability for evades or stealth, depending on the build in question. And clearly, given that thief has been meta forever, this trade off is working for them. Also, thief mobility factors into their survivability a lot, since they can both gap close quickly and leave fights that are going poorly.