Guild Wars 2

Lordrosicky.5813:

So lets get the facts out there shall we:
- Some top rangers actually think this patch buffed them
- Having tested it against GOOD PEOPLE (like probably nobody else on this forum has) the elite res spirit is still auto-win team fights
- The fact they get launched is borderline irrelevant
- Spirits still body block you
- You still cant see anything ever
- Spirit ranger is still the most insanely powerful build AND the lamest by far as it is a build which LITERALLY stops you from playing the game by making you see nothing
- Bad people in this thread moan about something which was barely even nerfed
- Some people are saying this patch was actually a buff
- The spirits passive buffs still linger for basically the whole time

Yeh. In fact the res spirit got buffed as now if it dies 10 seconds after spawning it then you get it back 50 seconds faster.

Spirit ranger still needs nerfing to make it bad so that people can actually get back to seeing anything which happens ever.

Stop making a fool of yourself.

As I said, if you really care about balance, go help the main/good/call-them-w/e-you-like rangers on their board to receive the revamps they’ve been imploring since launch. They usually ask the opposite of what they’re given and have to adapt their gameplay to this sheetty passive random crapness, cause it seems devs don’t want the ranger class played in any other way.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So lets get the facts out there shall we:
- Some top rangers actually think this patch buffed them
- Having tested it against GOOD PEOPLE (like probably nobody else on this forum has) the elite res spirit is still auto-win team fights
- The fact they get launched is borderline irrelevant
- Spirits still body block you
- You still cant see anything ever
- Spirit ranger is still the most insanely powerful build AND the lamest by far as it is a build which LITERALLY stops you from playing the game by making you see nothing
- Bad people in this thread moan about something which was barely even nerfed
- Some people are saying this patch was actually a buff
- The spirits passive buffs still linger for basically the whole time

Yeh. In fact the res spirit got buffed as now if it dies 10 seconds after spawning it then you get it back 50 seconds faster.

Spirit ranger still needs nerfing to make it bad so that people can actually get back to seeing anything which happens ever.

The changes are neither good or bad. They’ve moved the spirits inline with all other similar skills. The overall change is a nerf as the spirits are clearly more difficult to use. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing though. No one in this thread or over the past 2 months has been able to say why spirits are overpowered in a way that the Ranger needs to be nerfed though.

Everything you’re listing is targetting and AI related. It would seem the best way to nerf Rangers is for tab targetting to prioritize players before pets. That or entirely change the spirit mechanic to simply put auras on the active pet instead of spawning spirits at all.

But no one is really complaining about what the spirits actually do… only the way they behave.

What they do is also exceptionally powerful. Why was the changes to spirits a nerf? I dont get it. 1vs1 its probably worse. In team fights it could be better now.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So lets get the facts out there shall we:
- Some top rangers actually think this patch buffed them
- Having tested it against GOOD PEOPLE (like probably nobody else on this forum has) the elite res spirit is still auto-win team fights
- The fact they get launched is borderline irrelevant
- Spirits still body block you
- You still cant see anything ever
- Spirit ranger is still the most insanely powerful build AND the lamest by far as it is a build which LITERALLY stops you from playing the game by making you see nothing
- Bad people in this thread moan about something which was barely even nerfed
- Some people are saying this patch was actually a buff
- The spirits passive buffs still linger for basically the whole time

Yeh. In fact the res spirit got buffed as now if it dies 10 seconds after spawning it then you get it back 50 seconds faster.

Spirit ranger still needs nerfing to make it bad so that people can actually get back to seeing anything which happens ever.

The changes are neither good or bad. They’ve moved the spirits inline with all other similar skills. The overall change is a nerf as the spirits are clearly more difficult to use. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing though. No one in this thread or over the past 2 months has been able to say why spirits are overpowered in a way that the Ranger needs to be nerfed though.

Everything you’re listing is targetting and AI related. It would seem the best way to nerf Rangers is for tab targetting to prioritize players before pets. That or entirely change the spirit mechanic to simply put auras on the active pet instead of spawning spirits at all.

But no one is really complaining about what the spirits actually do… only the way they behave.

I think you missed a few major point there buddy. There is a reason why every pro team has at least one spirit rangers, and there were plenty of valid point over the last 2 month regarding why spirit rangers requires some “tweaking.”

You already know the targeting system. That’s number one. few players are also encountering lag issues on older machines when there are more than 1 spirit ranger on the map. That’s number two.

Technical reason aside, Spirit ranger is becoming increasingly popular because:
1 – Rangers Pet system. We already have 1 switchable pet that deals decent damage, has multiple skills, making it nearly impossible to kill. Getting 4 more spirits – each with its own passive and active benefit – makes a spirit ranger that much more deadly.

2 Ranger Traits. Ranger’s spirit trait is on VIT which means it is possible to stack toughness + vit for a spirit ranger, so even if you managed to take out the spirit it’ll still take a long time to bring down a d/t or d/d ranger.

3 Ranger gears. Toughness trait also gives condition damage, so with shaman amulet it is possible for a spirit ranger to get around 800+ condit and 900+ healing. So this means even if all the spirits are down, a spirit ranger is still far from completely useless. handicapped, maybe. useless? nah-uh.

4 Spirit CDs. The Cooldown on spirits are laughably short (before the tweak). It is entirely possible for you to kill the spirits only for it to be revived right afterward. Plus all the spirits can be traited into activating their active skill when they die, including nature. Taking down a good spirit ranger who is capable of self-ressing via spirit is hard. Not impossible, certainly. But hard. Did I mention spirit of nature also heals you?

5. The AI behavior of spirits. For pets that are supposed to be immobile, they are surprising intelligent once you get them walking. They have a tendency to avoid aoes by themselves, and a skilled spirit ranger will be able to pull them out of the circles. Spirits can also be healed via direct heal or regeneration, in case you didn’t know.

======
These reasons are all ‘on top’ of the technical reasons why Spirit rangers tend to have an edge over other classes in spvp. There are counter, of course, but the counters requires a lot of effort to carry out and the result is (at least it used to be) sub optimal at best.

I wouldn’t, however, call Spirit Rangers broken or massively OP. They are a little overpowered, and certainly requires tweaking, but it takes a degree of skill to both manage your spirits AND play your ranger at the same time. Still, the skill required to play a spirit ranger is nowhere near as crucial as say, a hybrid BM or Shout Ranger(Both of which I tried.), and having the advantage in numbers is always a very good advantage in pvp.

On the Changes themselves, I fail to see how 25 second CD changes and CC vulnerability would resolve the problems. Like I have mentioned before, blowing cc on Pet is a little bit silly (I wouldn’t do it unless it’s on a nature) unless you have access to aoe knockbacks.

The 25 second CD is justifiable, but the cc vulnerability really isn’t much of a nerf and – in my opinion – don’t actually bring that much more strategies to the play. (It does, but not enough.)

Plus, the spirit of nature actually got buffed. As mentioned by other posters before, using the nature within 10 second means the CD is now reduced to 180 second, which is almost as short as other ranger elites. In between all the passive bonus and active res on kill? I’d be happy if I actually plays Spirit Ranger as a main.

Can’t wait til the day they buff spirit weapons.

Instead of this, they should have removed spirit effects on everyone but the ranger and his pet and when spirits die, they’re on CD of 5-7sec. 25sec CD is stupid knowing its all your utilities. Does a phantasm go on CD after being used? Yes and that’s how spirits should be.

Spirit Rangers are still strong. If you want to run the build it will still work, but keep in mind that if you don’t position your elite well smart teams will interrupt it.

To be honest, you’re actually a bit stronger as a Spirit Ranger b/c if they kill your spirits early on in the fight you have better uptime than before with a 25 s cooldown instead of 60s. If they wait on attacking them you get to use them more and keep the bonus burning + prot.

The petting zoo is still open for business

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Sad, is it not? Rangers have had to use unintended mechanisms to be competive in sPvP. Take those away and you are left with a lot of discontent from the Ranger community about the lack of viable builds. It happened before with the pet damage and leash “nerf.” Reducing those practically removed tactical gameplay in the other game formats and made pets very much a fire-and-forget weapon. Instead of adressing known issues with the Ranger, such as the pet AI and how it responds to player input, you are wasting time “balancing” the Ranger by toning down gimmick builds.

I would not go as far as saying that spirit builds have become unviable, though. But I would like to believe I am letting a lot of players’ voices be heard when I say; Please ArenaNet, work on fixing the broken Ranger mechanics, rather than allow us one gimmick build to toy around with.

I would like to see pets actually respond to my F2 input, or have some utility skills that I do not have to invest 30 trait points in to make them viable. I would like to see the pet leash change reverted in PvE and WvW. I would love a change to bows to make them up to par with other options. I want normal weapon damage scaling, or atleast make the 100% pet uptime Rangers are currently balanced around be other than something I could dream of. I want that silly “juvennile” prefix of petnames removed. But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

lolwut

They might be neglected in the other game modes, but in PvP you are the master class.

jmatb.6307:

lolwut

They might be neglected in the other game modes, but in PvP you are the master class.

Which is my point exactly. They are undoubtedly top tier in sPvP. But only because of one currently working build, and only because the format forces you to fight over small areas (with up to 5 players.)

There is no reason to neglect actual issues with the class for over a year because they have a gimmick build that actually shines in one format. I would like to feel competive because I play well, not because my build allows it.

Not only that, but the working builds have previously destroyed viable playstyles in other formats when they got nerfed due to no split balance patches.

JorneMormel.9850:

jmatb.6307:

lolwut

They might be neglected in the other game modes, but in PvP you are the master class.

Which is my point exactly. They are undoubtedly top tier in sPvP. But only because of one currently working build, and only because the format forces you to fight over small areas (with up to 5 players.)

There is no reason to neglect actual issues with the class for over a year because they have a gimmick build that actually shines in one format. I would like to feel competive because I play well, not because my build allows it.

Not only that, but the working builds have previously destroyed viable playstyles in other formats when they got nerfed due to no split balance patches.

That’s been my complaint for awhile now. All PvP related (WvW, sPvP, tPvP, etc) issues have been focused on furthering the sPvP meta. WvW has been ignored. Quality of life improvements for classes has been ignored. Trait modernization has been ignored. Everything has been ignored for the sole purpose of furthering the sPvP meta: something not even 10% of the playerbase uses. Nearly half the classes don’t have a presence in WvW or PvE at the moment. While the top 10% in sPvP may reflect the same thing where half the classes aren’t relevant, if you look at the top 25% I bet you get a different picture.

So many band wagoners here, quickly throw some more hate, let me explain few things to you stupids.

Spirit’s are not that bad, most of you just can’t see past your nub-goggles. I’ll explain a few things.

Now the Spirit itself can be destroyed extremely fast. Don’t blame us if your still to stupid after how long to know how to kill Spirit’s.

Now Spirit’s are not the king of back points both Engi and Warrior counter them, do you see Spirit Rangers coming to forums complaining that Engi and Warrior’s counter us to hard. You need to understand most viable spot for Spirit Ranger is in Team fight’s where Spirit’s can be taken out very fast.

Ai body blocking, this is what I find the funnest. How stupid are you most Spirit Ranger’s count on there Spirit’s being alive its part of the build and game, if you can’t get it around your simple mind then your loss. I as Spirit Ranger always target the other teams Spirit’s and take them down fast, soon as the Elite goes up It’s I call it as a target tell my team and we take it down in seconds sometimes so fast I barely get to even hit it.

Only real problem I can see is Anet needs to give us option to turn off effect’s, keep the skill animation but give us the option to completely turn off the Effect’s.

I still can’t believe how stupid most of you are still, learn the god darn game allot better for kitten sake.

There so many easy way’s to deal with Spirit Ranger, your all just stupidly lazy or brain dead. Take a good look at how Spirit’s work, how hard is it to take Hammer/LB warrior to team fights?? how hard is it to take Engi to team fights?? how hard is it to take god darn perma evade thief to team fights?? They can all deal with Spirit’s rather fast.

If anything you will see less stupid’s playing Spirit Ranger.

I dislike this change.

The Rangers hurt most by this update are the ones who brought along an un-traited spirit as part of non-spirit centric build. Rangers who don’t want to camp one area are now punished for picking a good spot to plant their spirit, because that’s basically 85 seconds before the spirit can be re-cast if it is not killed, when 60 seconds was already quite long. Now the ONLY reason I would ever take a spirit is for a fully traited spirit build.

The petting zoo needed to be toned down because it was brainless and gimmicky, even if it could be dealt with. The only real skill factor in spirits is how you position them – did you not take note from nature spirits in GW1?? Unbound trait is the offender here, perhaps you should look at that.

I know this is balance for SPvP, but you need to consider WvW and PvE that don’t always involve camping a single location.

meikodesign.6471:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

This works consistently with other minions now.

Your argument is invalid

Why necro minions, banners and turrets don’t have duration but spirits do?
Why necro minions, and guardian spirits follow you by default but ranger spirits don’t?
Why banners and turrets can be “taken back” but static ranger spirits can’t?
[Insert here others classes differences]

Banners dont have duration? what?

JorneMormel.9850:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

But you’re not. You’re not even near the level of an Elementalist in the terms of Neglected Black Sheep.

Ryld.1340:

JorneMormel.9850:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

But you’re not. You’re not even near the level of an Elementalist in the terms of Neglected Black Sheep.

Do all your AE’kitten 5 people? Rangers win…

Atherakhia.4086:

Ryld.1340:

JorneMormel.9850:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

But you’re not. You’re not even near the level of an Elementalist in the terms of Neglected Black Sheep.

Do all your AE’kitten 5 people? Rangers win…

No. Their 5 limit gets absorbed by 4 spirits and a Ranger pet, never even hitting the ranger.

Ryld.1340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Ryld.1340:

JorneMormel.9850:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

But you’re not. You’re not even near the level of an Elementalist in the terms of Neglected Black Sheep.

Do all your AE’kitten 5 people? Rangers win…

No. Their 5 limit gets absorbed by 4 spirits and a Ranger pet, never even hitting the ranger.

At least yours kill the spirits. Ranger AE’s will hit 3.

Atherakhia.4086:

Ryld.1340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Ryld.1340:

JorneMormel.9850:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

But most of all I do not want Rangers to feel like the neglected black sheep of Guild Wars 2.

But you’re not. You’re not even near the level of an Elementalist in the terms of Neglected Black Sheep.

Do all your AE’kitten 5 people? Rangers win…

No. Their 5 limit gets absorbed by 4 spirits and a Ranger pet, never even hitting the ranger.

At least yours kill the spirits. Ranger AE’s will hit 3.

The funny part is that if I’m D/D, I don’t have enough AoE to hit the spirits outside of Churning Earth. And if I’m glass, I die to the ranger. If I’m not, I can’t kill the spirits due to low damage.

This change disappointed me. It seems like it just shifted the problem rather than fixing it.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

So I took my Ranger out in World vs World for a spin using Spirits (Wanted to try new Traveler rune with them)

Thing I instantly noticed in fights that stands out as a huge flaw (and is probably the same reason you don’t see Guardian Spirit Weapons either, Unlike Necro Minion Master) is the 1 and half second cast time….If you can’t put them up before the fight (because you don’t want them to die soon as you get to the fight thus wasting them) You take almost 5 seconds to cast all your abilities at the start of the fight…Necromancer minions of course has similar cast time but you can precast them, and Guardian Weapons are the same (thus why not used most likely, plus Guardian has better crap)

Pvp.2758:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

Its not that Signets have Stupid Cooldowns or Terrible Passive Effects, its that Signets only work on the Ranger if he invests 30 freakin points in the power line, they’re the only class in the game that has to invest that many points to be EQUAL to every other class in the game.

Rangers are fine

Rangers are fine; (better then fine with the buff to spirit of nature)

Xsorus.2507:

Pvp.2758:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

Its not that Signets have Stupid Cooldowns or Terrible Passive Effects, its that Signets only work on the Ranger if he invests 30 freakin points in the power line, they’re the only class in the game that has to invest that many points to be EQUAL to every other class in the game.

Elementalist. Arcane Line Mandatory. Still not equal.

Ryld.1340:

Xsorus.2507:

Pvp.2758:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

Its not that Signets have Stupid Cooldowns or Terrible Passive Effects, its that Signets only work on the Ranger if he invests 30 freakin points in the power line, they’re the only class in the game that has to invest that many points to be EQUAL to every other class in the game.

Elementalist. Arcane Line Mandatory. Still not equal.

Ranger, Wilderness Line Mandatory, Still not Equal.

I am happy that rangers are being properly balanced.

I think Anet has some more nerfing to due but this is a step in the right direction

Ranger QQ is so embarrassingly bad. Wilderness Survival and how many condis rangers stack with Shaman Amulet is so strong 1v1 is hilarious with all that utility and endurance.

Seriously dude… that class is never going to be on the bench. Ever.

jmatb.6307:

Ranger QQ is so embarrassingly bad. Wilderness Survival and how many condis rangers stack with Shaman Amulet is so strong 1v1 is hilarious with all that utility and endurance.

Seriously dude… that class is never going to be on the bench. Ever.

Complaining about the change to the spirit ranger build in PvP is silly…but for PvE (meaning dungeons and fractals), the complaining is HORRIBLY valid.

class identification is silly anyway. why run a subpar class for dungeons if Ranger is weak there?

i don’t pve at all but in pvp if you run a class that creates a bad matchup you’re a liability to the team. why is that any different in any other game mode? its just common sense

Xsorus.2507:

Ryld.1340:

Xsorus.2507:

Pvp.2758:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

Its not that Signets have Stupid Cooldowns or Terrible Passive Effects, its that Signets only work on the Ranger if he invests 30 freakin points in the power line, they’re the only class in the game that has to invest that many points to be EQUAL to every other class in the game.

Elementalist. Arcane Line Mandatory. Still not equal.

Ranger, Wilderness Line Mandatory, Still not Equal.

Elementalist. Arcane and Water line mandatory, still not Equal

60 of your 70 points

…..this is funny, people calling rangers op – The statement in itself is ridiculous, Expect to see even less rangers that’s for sure.

Hurry up innovative person – create another build that can kill players and make them kitten ed about losing to a ranger.

Resulting in PvP QQ, thus

Anet swings the Nerf bat on them again and again and again and again and again and again, like they have done in the past.

What role do you want rangers to have anyway? Is there even a role?

I’ll wait.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Thanks for the explanation, and I (as a Ranger) completely agree with everything you guys did this patch.
Spirit build was just a nobrainer and you added some cd management to it.
May I suggest
1) spirits behaving like Mesmers Phantasms when shattered, so they walk to their target first when activating them?
or
2) spirits active being ground targeted?

This would add more functionality to the Spirit actives while raising the skill level.
Spirit actives right now are just spammable and not to controll, so you just enter the biggest fight you see and use what’s not on cd.
I wouldn’t event mind if you would raise the active CD in addition to above suggestions.

@Aeri:
The worst part of being a ranger in tpvp/spvp is how boring it is atm. I would say, that even well-played BM was more thrilling than this. So … you said you were running shouts and/or BM .. is there any way I could persuade you into sharing your builds and thoughts on them?
kind regards
Poxxia

Guys, I think you are “slightly” overstating the situation. Ranger actually has really more than 1 viable build. You can easily search for the builds over the Internet and you will see a lot of ideas and great variability of the builds (and actually variability inside the builds which is also quite nice). While searching you’ll see almost no identical builds.
As for me, I like experimenting with my rangers traits and skills to create something unique. I ve been playing bunker/BM ranger, longbow/longsword ranger, spirit ranger, condition ranger. All of them are viable in one way or another but require different tactics, so I choose what I want for the moment. I still have some ideas of creating new builds and improving my existing ones. So, I think that creating builds in GW2 is fun.
You guys should try WoW where only 1 build really exists for every class (always) with almost no variability inside it. You can be called an eccentric for changing one talent in your own way there.
P.S. I forgot: I also met some skilled trap rangers.

TGSlasher.1458:

Xsorus.2507:

Ryld.1340:

Xsorus.2507:

Pvp.2758:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vamp Rook.7835:

-All spirits can now be launched, knocked down, and knocked back.

This was a bug fix which now will allow more counter-play when fighting spirits.

Vamp Rook.7835:

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Stone Spirit, and Spirit of Nature will now begin their recharge when the spirit dies instead of when the spirit is summoned.

-Storm Spirit, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, and Stone Spirit: Recharge has been reduced from 60 seconds to 25 seconds.

-Spirit of Nature: Recharge has been reduced from 240 seconds to 180 seconds.

Previously you were able to pre-cast spirits before a fight so that when they would die you could instantly re-summon them. This made it feel like there was little to no counter play. Players could take the time to AOE them down simply to have to deal with another set of spirits. These changes were made so that there is a time window where the ranger will be without spirits once they die. Since the spirits now die after their duration, we had to reduce the recharge to compensate. In fights where they are dying often, the shorter recharge is a buff.

Vamp Rook.7835:

Solar Flare: Fixed a bug so this skill no longer applies a duplicate infinite duration blind.

This was a simple bug fix removing unintended functionality.

Just like Mesmer clones? They can keep up 3 clones constantly. You fight the entire time trying to single target the Mesmer down because it’s impossible to kill all the clones in time before they refresh some new ones. Not to mention they go in and out of stealth so you lose your target (tab target blows), so you have to try and click with your mouse. I’ll 1v1 people on my Mesmer literally only using the #1 and #2 on the staff and win 100% of the time.

Thief? Goes in and out of stealth and can leave a fight whenever he or she pleases. Trying to 1v1 a thief in spvp or wvw is useless because they literally CANNOT lose if they just run away.

Wtf does Ranger have? A kittened pet that will chase a person forever getting 1 or 2 hits in if you are lucky. Signets have stupid cooldowns and terrible passive effects. Spirits are dog kitten now. Traps are boring and horrible.

Its not that Signets have Stupid Cooldowns or Terrible Passive Effects, its that Signets only work on the Ranger if he invests 30 freakin points in the power line, they’re the only class in the game that has to invest that many points to be EQUAL to every other class in the game.

Elementalist. Arcane Line Mandatory. Still not equal.

Ranger, Wilderness Line Mandatory, Still not Equal.

Elementalist. Arcane and Water line mandatory, still not Equal

60 of your 70 points

Water isn’t mandatory, Arcane Is, Water is not.

Spirit Build is Natures/Wilderness, Mandatory, BM Bunker is Wilderness high Beast (20 or 30) Mandatory, Traps is 30 Skirmish/30 Wilderness Mandatory.

Dirame.8521:

m walker.7836:

Bas.7406:

Dear Spirit Rangers,

We understand how you feel. There is a support club for the rest of us already.

Signed
Minion Mancers, Spirit Weapon Guardians, Turret Engineers, and Conjured Weapon Elementalists.

Um. I don’t think you don’t. Running spirits is the only useful build the ranger has for GROUP play. Every other build is single target (besides trap ranger but why bring that when you could have a necro) and complete crap compared to other classes. However the spirit nerf is fair and hopefully people can stop whining about “Spirit Ranger OPness”

Guess what you need to do now when you play Spirits? Put them in a safe place.

Wow you don’t say!!! /sarcasm
I don’t think you realize you have always needed to put them in a safe place. Which is especially hard to do with the constant AoEs. Good luck trying to hold a point against the warrior’s fire field, you have to give it up or else risk losing the spirits.

Poxxia.1547:

@Aeri:
The worst part of being a ranger in tpvp/spvp is how boring it is atm. I would say, that even well-played BM was more thrilling than this. So … you said you were running shouts and/or BM .. is there any way I could persuade you into sharing your builds and thoughts on them?
kind regards
Poxxia

Sry to disappoint you, but I only played Power and Spiritrangers in tPvP.

Spiritrangers (as said above) is to easy and takes almost no efford to stand against 2-3 enemies for a good amount of time.

Powerrangers are able to dish out a good amount of damage while sacrificing their survivability to a point where you are dead as soon as the enemy is able to land a stun or get near you.

Rangers are fine..Spirits are still viable and if you dont want to play em try this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Offensive-Support-Shout-Ranger-sPvP/first#post2779212

Warrior banners can’t be killed. now that’s op.

I have been playing quite a bit the past 2 days and I have only seen 1 spirit ranger (who got destroyed). Why such a vast reduction in people playing the build after it was just “buffed” to make it even stronger?

I don’t really care about the nerf so much. I haven’t seen its effect in game yet so maybe I’m just ignorant of how big the changes are. However, I did see a post in here where someone said something like “even anet is calling it a petting zoo. . .” So… ANet has been so clearly scared and shaking over the idea of losing any of its serious pvp community that the devs will do or say anything. They have no issue caving, even if it is something that doesn’t need to be changed. Watch any SotG and tell me they aren’t absolutely shivering and stuttering whenever something is brought up that the players on there aren’t happy with.

It really doesn’t help any point to use Anet’s words or actions in regards to balance as evidence of anything.

With any luck someone will bring up rangers at tomorrow’s sotg. I’m personally fine with the change simply because it made spirits more in line with other similar skills. But it’s disappointing seeing how terrible the Ranger class is overall and how little has changed in a year.

jmatb.6307:

class identification is silly anyway. why run a subpar class for dungeons if Ranger is weak there?

i don’t pve at all but in pvp if you run a class that creates a bad matchup you’re a liability to the team. why is that any different in any other game mode? its just common sense

Which is why the blanket nerf for spirits across all 3 modes hit us while we were down. It’s like nerfing something in PvE for warriors and having it hit them in PvP as well. It’s stupid, and doesn’t help the class at all.

Fjandi.2516:

As a ranger player i’m glad they nerfed the spec a bit. Tbh it was bad for the game and boring to play. I don’t really know if these changes have made the spec not viable, we will see.

Archaon.6245:

No more autoattack spam (And yeah some stuns, but it’s already on an uber master level of skills and it’s not for everyone) while op spirits do the job? So sad…

The autoattack spam is a shortbow related problem, it has nothing to do with spirits. Spirits simply made the spam more effective.

On a side note, all this hate towards the ranger class is really sad and depressing. It seems like rangers are the only ones spamming, while other classes require so much skillZ.

This. A thousand times this. All rangers are clearly terrible because they HAVE to rely on passives. This is a weapon and skill design problem, not a fault of the ranger. I’m sure many rangers want more active control.

good guy anet

keep butchering those petting zoo animals. me hungry long time

Atherakhia.4086:

With any luck someone will bring up rangers at tomorrow’s sotg. I’m personally fine with the change simply because it made spirits more in line with other similar skills. But it’s disappointing seeing how terrible the Ranger class is overall and how little has changed in a year.

Lots has changed for ranger: best 5 point trait moved to 30 point trait (after quickness nerf which already hit that build), SB fire speed nerfed, pet condition removal nerfed, pet ability use on resummon nerfed, pet AI nerfed, axe 4 buffed, anything I’m missing? Were traps nerfed at one point?

But is the class really so terrible? I mean lots of people these days seem to think its the bomb in spvp.

Yasha.5963:

Atherakhia.4086:

With any luck someone will bring up rangers at tomorrow’s sotg. I’m personally fine with the change simply because it made spirits more in line with other similar skills. But it’s disappointing seeing how terrible the Ranger class is overall and how little has changed in a year.

Lots has changed for ranger: best 5 point trait moved to 30 point trait (after quickness nerf which already hit that build), SB fire speed nerfed, pet condition removal nerfed, pet ability use on resummon nerfed, pet AI nerfed, axe 4 buffed, anything I’m missing? Were traps nerfed at one point?

But is the class really so terrible? I mean lots of people these days seem to think its the bomb in spvp.

Not all traps hit 5 targets. So while not ‘nerfed’ they were never working properly.

Class is fine.

Spirits being nerfed was a godsend.

Shut up.