Guild Wars 2

Today a guy asked me in a PM whether I was a lvl 80. That made me sad.

How do I tell him I reached 80 (previous r55) over a year ago? How do I tell him that by now I would have been r65 or so…?

So if today someone reached 80, they’re pretty much the same as me. No differentiation, no indication that I’ve been around for so much longer. No acknowledgement of the level I would have reached by now had the old rank system kept going.

Beating a dead horse I know…but…kitten . What a waste!

bhagwad.4281:

Today a guy asked me in a PM whether I was a lvl 80. That made me sad.

How do I tell him I reached 80 (previous r55) over a year ago? How do I tell him that by now I would have been r65 or so…?

So if today someone reached 80, they’re pretty much the same as me. No differentiation, no indication that I’ve been around for so much longer. No acknowledgement of the level I would have reached by now had the old rank system kept going.

Beating a dead horse I know…but…kitten . What a waste!

I feel sad for you, to think that you need “privileges” to proof your worth.
At least you can show off your “Champion xxx” (class specific) to proof that you play a great deal of certain classes :P

Haha same. I got to r80 before buffs/potions/event bonuses ever existed.

When courtyard came out people would follow/join the team I was in because our ranks were visible. What sucked about that was I couldn’t try out weird builds, even in hotjoin, because there was a certain level of expectation people had from r80s. At least that’s what I felt.

Now, it feels quite meaningless to me and often use the deer or dolyak finisher just ’cuz.

I wanna pewp on the OP and guy above me for being elitist turrrdz
<3 <3 <3

the guy above you is trolling..

ahuh? was rank 60 before patch, but as i before and now rank doesnt matter.

who the hell cares about rank

RoRo.8270:

who the hell cares about rank

People who want progression. I should end the day with something I didn’t have at the beginning. Ranks gave us that.

Just put up your champ brawler title, bruh.

RoRo.8270:

who the hell cares about rank

bhagwad.4281:

RoRo.8270:

who the hell cares about rank

People who want progression. I should end the day with something I didn’t have at the beginning. Ranks gave us that.

pretty sad this is what pvp has come to these days. no more is it about the actual enjoyment of the gameplay it’s all achivements/gold stickers/etc

Wow, still not over this bhagwad?

I agree. PvP needs more permanent progression. The reward tracks are boring.

Like the OP I was r55 when they made r80 stupidly easy to get.

“These days” what a naive thing to say. Please look back at Guild Wars 1. Nuff’ said =D

Oh wow, who cares. You can’t see people’s rank anyway. No one has ever asked what rank I was, nobody looks at finishers. I’m really confused as to what the problem actually is here since ranks are ultimately meaningless. You can be a terrible player and still be r80 simply from playing long enough, so what does it even matter.

Draknar.5748:

Oh wow, who cares. You can’t see people’s rank anyway. No one has ever asked what rank I was, nobody looks at finishers. I’m really confused as to what the problem actually is here since ranks are ultimately meaningless. You can be a terrible player and still be r80 simply from playing long enough, so what does it even matter.

Back when ranks were meaningful people asked you about it. Now that everyone is r80, its pointless to ask obviously.

Draknar.5748:

Oh wow, who cares. You can’t see people’s rank anyway. No one has ever asked what rank I was, nobody looks at finishers. I’m really confused as to what the problem actually is here since ranks are ultimately meaningless. You can be a terrible player and still be r80 simply from playing long enough, so what does it even matter.

I think playing long enough deserves its own award. After all, if you “play long enough” in PvP, you’re sure to have accumulated insane amounts of gold, skins, and even legendaries.

Where is my reward for “playing long enough” in PvP?

I find it sad that people claims that one should find enjoyment purely in the gameplay.
I am sorry, this is not how I work, I don’t want to enjoy a game, I want to beat the living crap out of a game and show others how good I beat the game. Yes I like feeling slightly better than your average players, I am competitive, but avoid toxicity.
Does this make me a bad player? Because I don’t find enjoyment purely out of playing? But out of rewards, progression and those “stickers” as others said?
No, it doesn’t. I enjoy the same game as you all, but differently, in another way that touch me and makes me want to play.
Each has their motivations to play and no one has the right to judge you on that.
On another note
Yes, I want a reward for “playing long enough” in PvP.
At least make Conqueror a wearable title kitten …

Pepsi.8907:

I find it sad that people claims that one should find enjoyment purely in the gameplay.
I am sorry, this is not how I work, I don’t want to enjoy a game, I want to beat the living crap out of a game and show others how good I beat the game. Yes I like feeling slightly better than your average players, I am competitive, but avoid toxicity.
Does this make me a bad player? Because I don’t find enjoyment purely out of playing? But out of rewards, progression and those “stickers” as others said?
No, it doesn’t. I enjoy the same game as you all, but differently, in another way that touch me and makes me want to play.
Each has their motivations to play and no one has the right to judge you on that.
On another note
Yes, I want a reward for “playing long enough” in PvP.
At least make Conqueror a wearable title kitten …

You can show how “skillful” you are by participating in ToL.
Otherwise it’s proves nothing, no matter how high your rank is.

Participating in ToL means nothing. Even winning it means little considering how few competive teams there are. The existing teams would probably be only ranked mediocre if GW2 pvp had the same fanbase as LoL, Dota or starcraft.

I am definitely more impressed by people with thousands of tpvp wins (because it takes lots of patience and determination) over someone who won a ToL or other wannabe GW2 esport events.

Malediktus.3740:

Participating in ToL means nothing. Even winning it means little considering how few competive teams there are. The existing teams would probably be only ranked mediocre if GW2 pvp had the same fanbase as LoL, Dota or starcraft.

I am definitely more impressed by people with thousands of tpvp wins (because it takes lots of patience and determination) over someone who won a ToL or other wannabe GW2 esport events.

Same can be argued with ranks because it’s just a time-gate grind. ToL at least shows that you’re more capable. If you argue that the competitive scene is so small, then you should already easily get in already. People always find excuses for their incapability to make them feel better.

Last note, people can play thousands of games but still being mediocre. It’s like you can work in a company for 20 years and still staying in the middle position.

Most people PvP to PvP. That doesn’t mean they don’t want to feel like they are advancing. All rank does is show how much you PvP. That said the consent almost reaching 81, back to 80 is kind of funny. Said it before, a WvW system with extreme ranks would have worked here as well. Its value is only created from the value that the player perceives it to be, but a lot of people though like to see measurable advancement. Hence the levels, achievement points, WvW ranks and soon to be masteries. So why not expand the level cap and make it hugh so that people can still get that advancing feel?

The old ranks for were more like a record of how much you grinded in PvP…if you put in enough time, even if you lose the majority of it after 3 years you could be rank 60+ which is…not good for your health.

Any title that says something like “Champion xxx” is way more reassuring about your skills than just putting up ranks. It is not uncommon to see Rank 20s beating Rank 80s these days

There are three tiers here. Ratio, value and time spent. We have Value, aka the Champion titles, which are once done they are gone. Time spent, rank which again is once done is gone. The final is Ratio, which should be the leader boards but see the various threads about that. Therefore two of the three once completed are done, nothing more to see here. As I said people like to have Goals, ironic for a time sink and all but it is what it is else we wouldn’t have /age in game either.

TheGrimm.5624:

There are three tiers here. Ratio, value and time spent. We have Value, aka the Champion titles, which are once done they are gone. Time spent, rank which again is once done is gone. The final is Ratio, which should be the leader boards but see the various threads about that. Therefore two of the three once completed are done, nothing more to see here. As I said people like to have Goals, ironic for a time sink and all but it is what it is else we wouldn’t have /age in game either.

Champion Brawler should be your goal then.
10K wins in unrank or rank is a pretty darn good indication of how good you are. And yes, people can see your title, so you can feel superior and admired.

Pepsi.8907:

I find it sad that people claims that one should find enjoyment purely in the gameplay.

What the….??

You find me sad because I enjoy the game play? That’s the most amusing and nonsensical thing I’ve heard in a while. Thank you.

Fluffball.8307:

Pepsi.8907:

I find it sad that people claims that one should find enjoyment purely in the gameplay.

What the….??

You find me sad because I enjoy the game play? That’s the most amusing and nonsensical thing I’ve heard in a while. Thank you.

He said it’s sad if people think others should only enjoy the gameplay.

That’s not what he wrote at all. Hopefully it’s what he meant. I still disagree with that interpretation, but I know some people have, for lack of a less offensive phrase, e-kitten needs.

If I want to feel better than someone I’ll outplay them.

Fluffball.8307:

That’s not what he wrote at all. Hopefully it’s what he meant. I still disagree with that interpretation, but I know some people have, for lack of a less offensive phrase, e-kitten needs.

If I want to feel better than someone I’ll outplay them.

Different strokes. What does Anet lose by catering to everyone? Nothing!

I’ve been saying for like a year now that there should be prestige. With prestige, people can get more achievements unlocked, more skins, more finishers, etc. PVP ranks kinda matter again and we get the cool cosmetics we want.

bhagwad.4281:

Beating a dead horse I know…but…kitten . What a waste!

It’s ok too have a horse. My horse is aftercast delays.

Maybe of us told ANET that people want to see some progression in PvP. They thought we were wrong. Sometimes people need to learn from their own mistakes. This is especially true of the PvP team.

Let’s hope they do the right thing soon.

Think about it. PvP is the only part of the game with no progression. In PvE, people can focus on achievements or titles. In WvW, people can rank to 12000 or something. In PvP, you can get to 80 and some easy champion titles and then nothing.

style.6173:

Maybe of us told ANET that people want to see some progression in PvP. They thought we were wrong. Sometimes people need to learn from their own mistakes. This is especially true of the PvP team.

Let’s hope they do the right thing soon.

Think about it. PvP is the only part of the game with no progression. In PvE, people can focus on achievements or titles. In WvW, people can rank to 12000 or something. In PvP, you can get to 80 and some easy champion titles and then nothing.

Champion Brawler = 10k wins. Nothing?
Unlike WvW AP, it’s actually doable, but extremely time consuming and probably need a pre-made to do so. By the time you get champion brawler, you’d probably be rank 2000 in PVP already. Still think it’s nothing?

I don’t think he was concerned about progression but rather how to differentiate himself, one of the first r80s from the new pleb r80s that don’t deserve the legendary champ title.

I hate to say this but there is a difference in skill level between the two.

It really annoys me when you get idiots saying ‘omg why do you care, rank means nothing’ crap.
So why even post that? It’s hypocritical. If you don’t think people should be caring, don’t post said opinion. It’s pointless and a pretty brain-dead thing to do.

But for the others, who created this post and agree…..i feel for you.

No matter what people say, most of us play an MMO because its social, competitive (lol), and for the self fulfilment and bragging rights. No matter what game it is (CS, LoL, FiFa, DOTA, WoW, SC), people play online pvp to compete and have bragging rights over their fellow gamers. If you didnt care, you’d probably be playing a solo RPG like Witcher etc. Thats why nearly every MMO has titles, ranks, achievements, gear to aspire towards. To play an MMO and get good, a certain time investment is needed. Now most don’t mind investing that time because you get rewarded for it through said titles/ranks etc to show a) you are a veteran of the game and/or b) you have skill in a certain class/area/mode of the game.

If people were not competitive or concerned about their online egos, there would be no ESL or esports.

Which brings me on to the question(s);
Why has ANET made ranks USELESS?
After the April patch where now every man and his dog can get rank 80, there is nothing to show that you have been a real pvp grinder/competitor.
Ranks, while were not everything in pvp, they were the carrot on the stick for true pvpers (new ranks,finishers, GEAR SKINS, every 10 ranks) and people like me really enjoyed the grind, because i got better at the game/my class at the same time.
You took away the differentiation ANET.
This is before i get onto champion titles too. They are also useless. SO many bad class champions out there. 1-2 years ago, a champion was seen as an expert on their class, now its meaningless. I have champ paragon with 151 ranked games won, and champion illusionist with over 1200 ranked games won…..yet i’m rewarded with the same quality title?

Essay over but the OP brought up a good point. ANET, WHAT IS THE POINT IN RANKS, if you are not someone who bought the game yesterday….

Liam McColgan.7689:

It really annoys me when you get idiots saying ‘omg why do you care, rank means nothing’ crap.
So why even post that? It’s hypocritical. If you don’t think people should be caring, don’t post said opinion. It’s pointless and a pretty brain-dead thing to do.

But for the others, who created this post and agree…..i feel for you.

No matter what people say, most of us play an MMO because its social, competitive (lol), and for the self fulfilment and bragging rights. No matter what game it is (CS, LoL, FiFa, DOTA, WoW, SC), people play online pvp to compete and have bragging rights over their fellow gamers. If you didnt care, you’d probably be playing a solo RPG like Witcher etc. Thats why nearly every MMO has titles, ranks, achievements, gear to aspire towards. To play an MMO and get good, a certain time investment is needed. Now most don’t mind investing that time because you get rewarded for it through said titles/ranks etc to show a) you are a veteran of the game and/or b) you have skill in a certain class/area/mode of the game.

If people were not competitive or concerned about their online egos, there would be no ESL or esports.

That’s your opinion and personally I don’t agree with this one point – I play because I enjoy the combat and having unpredictable human players as opponents. Of course it’s more fun to win, but that’s not the sole reason for playing.

You don’t get that unpredictability in single player games – and this is the reason pve in gw2 is also boring because enemy AI is predictable. There’s not many single player games where the enemy AI is good enough that you can play repetitively for a long time without getting bored.

The only “flair” I care about are skins which look good. I grind AP because I love the zenith skins. I grind gold because I like some of the expensive weapon skins. I don’t care whether another player thinks it’s prestigious or not.

Ranks still unlock finishers which provide new players an incentive to log on and spend time in pvp.

Curunen.8729:

Liam McColgan.7689:

It really annoys me when you get idiots saying ‘omg why do you care, rank means nothing’ crap.
So why even post that? It’s hypocritical. If you don’t think people should be caring, don’t post said opinion. It’s pointless and a pretty brain-dead thing to do.

But for the others, who created this post and agree…..i feel for you.

No matter what people say, most of us play an MMO because its social, competitive (lol), and for the self fulfilment and bragging rights. No matter what game it is (CS, LoL, FiFa, DOTA, WoW, SC), people play online pvp to compete and have bragging rights over their fellow gamers. If you didnt care, you’d probably be playing a solo RPG like Witcher etc. Thats why nearly every MMO has titles, ranks, achievements, gear to aspire towards. To play an MMO and get good, a certain time investment is needed. Now most don’t mind investing that time because you get rewarded for it through said titles/ranks etc to show a) you are a veteran of the game and/or b) you have skill in a certain class/area/mode of the game.

If people were not competitive or concerned about their online egos, there would be no ESL or esports.

That’s your opinion and personally I don’t agree with this one point – I play because I enjoy the combat and having unpredictable human players as opponents. Of course it’s more fun to win, but that’s not the sole reason for playing.

You don’t get that unpredictability in single player games – and this is the reason pve in gw2 is also boring because enemy AI is predictable. There’s not many single player games where the enemy AI is good enough that you can play repetitively for a long time without getting bored.

The only “flair” I care about are skins which look good. I grind AP because I love the zenith skins. I grind gold because I like some of the expensive weapon skins. I don’t care whether another player thinks it’s prestigious or not.

Ranks still unlock finishers which provide new players an incentive to log on and spend time in pvp.

I understand your stance and the many who say who shouldnt be about ranks. There needs to be something to say about end goal in games. For the many after being bumped up to 80 and the fact that hrs and hrs were spent in matches/ tourneys felt cheated. Also being lvl since the patch bump, there has really been nothing for me to do in the game. Im not working towards anything, to be honest of my friends and guild members from the game they literally log on and maybe do a daily and leave.

Titles should mean something, playing the game and doing certain things should mean something. ANET took it away the day the bump happened. You can buy legendary s and get skins from buying gems and have tons of gold from farming. When the game first came out they gave us glory and pvp skins. They left the old pvp community in a complete confusion with many of us saying well if they were gonna make it so easy why didnt they do it earlier?

To end it all i understand people saying who cares about ranks but i would like for you to see it from the other side. The fact people needed 250,000 glory to level from 60-61 and the fact shark and phoenix finishers use to mean something. The Maruder/gladiator/ etc titles use to mean something. Today for many of us we go about the game in a daze because we enjoy the game but have nothing to work towards that is pvp related.

kdaddy.5431:

Curunen.8729:

Liam McColgan.7689:

It really annoys me when you get idiots saying ‘omg why do you care, rank means nothing’ crap.
So why even post that? It’s hypocritical. If you don’t think people should be caring, don’t post said opinion. It’s pointless and a pretty brain-dead thing to do.

But for the others, who created this post and agree…..i feel for you.

No matter what people say, most of us play an MMO because its social, competitive (lol), and for the self fulfilment and bragging rights. No matter what game it is (CS, LoL, FiFa, DOTA, WoW, SC), people play online pvp to compete and have bragging rights over their fellow gamers. If you didnt care, you’d probably be playing a solo RPG like Witcher etc. Thats why nearly every MMO has titles, ranks, achievements, gear to aspire towards. To play an MMO and get good, a certain time investment is needed. Now most don’t mind investing that time because you get rewarded for it through said titles/ranks etc to show a) you are a veteran of the game and/or b) you have skill in a certain class/area/mode of the game.

If people were not competitive or concerned about their online egos, there would be no ESL or esports.

That’s your opinion and personally I don’t agree with this one point – I play because I enjoy the combat and having unpredictable human players as opponents. Of course it’s more fun to win, but that’s not the sole reason for playing.

You don’t get that unpredictability in single player games – and this is the reason pve in gw2 is also boring because enemy AI is predictable. There’s not many single player games where the enemy AI is good enough that you can play repetitively for a long time without getting bored.

The only “flair” I care about are skins which look good. I grind AP because I love the zenith skins. I grind gold because I like some of the expensive weapon skins. I don’t care whether another player thinks it’s prestigious or not.

Ranks still unlock finishers which provide new players an incentive to log on and spend time in pvp.

I understand your stance and the many who say who shouldnt be about ranks. There needs to be something to say about end goal in games. For the many after being bumped up to 80 and the fact that hrs and hrs were spent in matches/ tourneys felt cheated. Also being lvl since the patch bump, there has really been nothing for me to do in the game. Im not working towards anything, to be honest of my friends and guild members from the game they literally log on and maybe do a daily and leave.

Titles should mean something, playing the game and doing certain things should mean something. ANET took it away the day the bump happened. You can buy legendary s and get skins from buying gems and have tons of gold from farming. When the game first came out they gave us glory and pvp skins. They left the old pvp community in a complete confusion with many of us saying well if they were gonna make it so easy why didnt they do it earlier?

To end it all i understand people saying who cares about ranks but i would like for you to see it from the other side. The fact people needed 250,000 glory to level from 60-61 and the fact shark and phoenix finishers use to mean something. The Maruder/gladiator/ etc titles use to mean something. Today for many of us we go about the game in a daze because we enjoy the game but have nothing to work towards that is pvp related.

I agree that systems should be there to cater to players who like titles and the current system doesn’t really do that.

Like I said, Champion Brawler should be you ego ppl’s goal.
It’s a perfect bragging rights that everyone can see it either.
The only reason you don’t consider it is because you’re thinking it’s too difficult lol..

What a bunch of double standard guys, when the requirement is easy, you complain, when the requirement is too hard, you ignore it lol…

Like I said, Champion Brawler proves that you’re at least rank 2000 already, and you’re very very experienced and more than likely skilled.

I just keep coming back to this thread… People needing some sort of visual proof they’re better than everyone else because they can’t just prove it with their skills like everyone else. Ha!

I’ve been training in martial arts for a couple decades and you see this all the time. The traditional guys with their black belts get all uppity when a boxer with 6 months training wrecks them in sparring. Cuz titles don’t matter, it’s the PvP match/ring/cage whatever that matters.

You need a sort of rank rework, or a title taking into account number of games won( i.e kinda like in GvG or Hero Battles in GW1) to reflect players experience…

Leaderboards can be good, but won’t be perfect anyway, since people who already did 5k+ games don’t have the motivation to climb it doing 30 games/day, starting at the same spot as a new comer. Adding some sort of titles + emotes would also give motivation to many players i believe

Aomine.5012:

Like I said, Champion Brawler should be you ego ppl’s goal.
It’s a perfect bragging rights that everyone can see it either.
The only reason you don’t consider it is because you’re thinking it’s too difficult lol..

What a bunch of double standard guys, when the requirement is easy, you complain, when the requirement is too hard, you ignore it lol…

Like I said, Champion Brawler proves that you’re at least rank 2000 already, and you’re very very experienced and more than likely skilled.

Too bad Champion Brawler sounds terrible compared to GWAMM, so I wouldnt use it if I earn it one day.

Aomine.5012:

Like I said, Champion Brawler should be you ego ppl’s goal.
It’s a perfect bragging rights that everyone can see it either.
The only reason you don’t consider it is because you’re thinking it’s too difficult lol..

What a bunch of double standard guys, when the requirement is easy, you complain, when the requirement is too hard, you ignore it lol…

Like I said, Champion Brawler proves that you’re at least rank 2000 already, and you’re very very experienced and more than likely skilled.

This would be much more appealing if they added mini-steps along the way. Let every 100 wins increase the number by 1. That way we keep getting something all the time.

So we can have Champion Brawler (1), Champion Brawler (2) etc.

Anet please tell me I’m good so other people will think I’m good! Please!

What you are suppose to do is quit the game come back after a while and make a threading complaining about not being treated like the special snowflake you think you are.

Aomine.5012:

style.6173:

Maybe of us told ANET that people want to see some progression in PvP. They thought we were wrong. Sometimes people need to learn from their own mistakes. This is especially true of the PvP team.

Let’s hope they do the right thing soon.

Think about it. PvP is the only part of the game with no progression. In PvE, people can focus on achievements or titles. In WvW, people can rank to 12000 or something. In PvP, you can get to 80 and some easy champion titles and then nothing.

Champion Brawler = 10k wins. Nothing?
Unlike WvW AP, it’s actually doable, but extremely time consuming and probably need a pre-made to do so. By the time you get champion brawler, you’d probably be rank 2000 in PVP already. Still think it’s nothing?

Oh yeah? and how can you tell where you are between rank 80 and 2000 in your scenario? Your logic falls apart there.

Most people like progression. It is fine that you are happy without it. Doesn’t mean others feel that way.

style.6173:

Aomine.5012:

style.6173:

Maybe of us told ANET that people want to see some progression in PvP. They thought we were wrong. Sometimes people need to learn from their own mistakes. This is especially true of the PvP team.

Let’s hope they do the right thing soon.

Think about it. PvP is the only part of the game with no progression. In PvE, people can focus on achievements or titles. In WvW, people can rank to 12000 or something. In PvP, you can get to 80 and some easy champion titles and then nothing.

Champion Brawler = 10k wins. Nothing?
Unlike WvW AP, it’s actually doable, but extremely time consuming and probably need a pre-made to do so. By the time you get champion brawler, you’d probably be rank 2000 in PVP already. Still think it’s nothing?

Oh yeah? and how can you tell where you are between rank 80 and 2000 in your scenario? Your logic falls apart there.

Most people like progression. It is fine that you are happy without it. Doesn’t mean others feel that way.

The old rank 80 is like Champion Brawler.
You want rank system to revert back to what it used to be for bragging right, but you can’t stand the time spent to get Champion Brawler?
How funny.

They could just introduce WvW’s prestige rank structure into sPvP to give sPvP ranks a constant incremental sense of progression once a player hits 80. So you could work to Silver Legendary Champion, Gold Legendary Champion while you’re also working on getting all 8 titles and eventually Champion Brawler.

Ultimately the real endgame progression would be what people suggested 2 years ago which were tiers on the current champion title names such as 300 wins=x name, 600 wins=x.

Anet went with the easy solution so we wouldn’t get a repeat of gw1 in gw2 pvp chat such as: lf champ 4 engi “champ 5 team” of the sort and go very casual about it. They have steamlined pvp to be as casual as it can be at this point where they haven’t realized soloq made many teams on it’s own (even the current players that quit/are on top now just met each other through paid tournaments or pugging frees which was soloq back then).

I have zero clue how any team would form now without less than a miracle, every player I met/knew came from pure soloq and just making a makeshift group of people which consisted of solo to transition to team queue and compete for top 8 in tol 2. Anet literally destroyed that part of the community by merging queues, but that is another discussion that I don’t feel like writing a summary on how much they messed up by removing soloq (by solo queue I mean pure solo [no combinations just 1v1v1v1v1 vs 1v1v1v1v1 ALWAYS])

Fluffball.8307:

I just keep coming back to this thread… People needing some sort of visual proof they’re better than everyone else because they can’t just prove it with their skills like everyone else. Ha!

I’ve been training in martial arts for a couple decades and you see this all the time. The traditional guys with their black belts get all uppity when a boxer with 6 months training wrecks them in sparring. Cuz titles don’t matter, it’s the PvP match/ring/cage whatever that matters.

where are you going to train, seriously what boxer can you name is wrecking all around fighters? MMA has shown that guys like cung le, anderson silver and mirco cro crop absolutely destroy 1 dimensional fighters.

Which brings up my next point, they earned there black belts threw training and hard work. It doesnt mean there the best fighter but the fact is they put there work in to earn it. Someone coming of the streets might be able to beat them but guess what take the best 4 players you know and go up against the abjured, cunning stunts, radioactive, apex and etc and the result would be the same as you fighting a pro champion mma fighter who holds a title for what he does.