Guild Wars 2

With might nerfed, does sigil of battle still needs further nerfing? Anet’s balance history teached me that when they double nerf something, the risk of having it getting overnerfed is high.

These fixes aren’t even changes these are like minor hotfixes for every class… I want to see some actual changes to class balance, bunkering, engis, cele eles and gaurdians… Oh yeah and the Leaderboards…

RIP in peperonnis eles

Why did you not actually nerf engineers?

These changes will not change much simply a nudge in the right direction

We need a LEAP in the right direction

Superior Sigil of Battle: The amount of might granted from this item has been reduced from 3 stacks to 2 stacks.

YES. GG WP.

Beautiful balance patch! I am very impressed of the challenging schedule (already before WTS) and how the actual changes are very much like discussed on this forum with players.

Also super nice to include “dev note” as a explanation. Gotta love that!

Thanks!

Where is the Celestial amulet nerf? Do not even tell me this is not going to be solved this patch..

Tiny nerf to might, battle sigils made less significant, torment sigils added, no celestial changes (yet) and a lot of irrelevant changes to useless skills and traits that will remain unused after the patch.

Seems pretty meh so far, sorry.

Won’t this might nerf effect Celestial as well though? I was under the impression that the easy access to (and power of) might was the main issue with Celestial, but I might be incorrect.

don’t get why you bothered changing shrapnel but w/e

plz don’t forget to change air/fire as well and make intel sigil 2 instead of 3

Maylo.5892:

Where is the Celestial amulet nerf? Do not even tell me this is not going to be solved this patch..

This can (and has) lead to a massive discussion, but the general view seems to be that celestial amulet itself isn’t the problem with the celestial builds, might stacking is the bigger issue since these builds rely on large might stacks to deal a reasonable level of damage.

Bukkebruse.2810:

Tiny nerf to might, battle sigils made less significant, torment sigils added, no celestial changes (yet) and a lot of irrelevant changes to useless skills and traits that will remain unused after the patch.

Seems pretty meh so far, sorry.

Right. Besides the fact that celestial engis use the sigil for most of their might stacks, so it’s essentially cutting their might potential by 1/4.

Seems pretty decent and prudent.

The fact that actually blasting your blast finishers gives you more might than a sigil is a nice sign. It’s specially interesting when you consider that cele engies get al their might from sigil swaps.

Nothing on doom sigil raises an eyebrow, though. Do you guys consider it a necessary evil?

Changes meh. Made condi more powerful. Nerfed might (good?) but that changes nothing in the spect that it is nerfed for everyone and still leaves everyone in the same boat. Locust swarm cast for Necro from 1 second to .5 so necros can be more mobile? LOL??!! The CD is the same….so you aren’t more mobile. .5 second less cast doesn’t make you more mobile for 1 skill.. Good try though, I guess it’s a start.

Either way, TY Father of Esports for posting the link

Scavenging condi Engi!
Gadget buffs!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Engi celestial rifle nerf:

engi celestial before: 10/12 might stacks: 350/420 condi damage/power
engi celestial now: 7/9 stacks might (with different value): 210/270

Basically they lose 140-150 condi damage/power

GhOst.4019:

Changes meh. Made condi more powerful. Nerfed might (good?) but that changes nothing in the spect that it is nerfed for everyone and still leaves everyone in the same boat.

You realise that not every single class relies on might right? Mostly the cele classes that people have been moaning about for so long.

I wanna know why nothing has been changed about Overcharged shot and Incendiary Powder. I think people have been asking for that a lot, too. But it seems like only ele was nerfed individually. I really wonder why.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Engi celestial rifle nerf:

engi celestial before: 10/12 might stacks: 350/420 condi damage/power
engi celestial now: 7/9 stacks might (with different value): 240/300

Basically they lose 110-120 condi damage/power

7/9 stacks should give 210/270 now, for a total of 140/150 lost, with your numbers

Narkodx.1472:

Why did you not actually nerf engineers?

These changes will not change much simply a nudge in the right direction

We need a LEAP in the right direction

I cannot quote this hard enough. The might nerfs might tone down celestial eles and engies, but 5 months wait for this? A few shaving here and there? What we need right now, is to defibrillator the meta, not just poke with a needle and see if it is still alive or not.

Guess this is it, countless feedback, and that’s that. See you guys in 5~6 months for another balance patch that will probably do kitten all. I have lost hope for pvp in this game.

Where are the nerfs to engineer turrets and rifle?
If these changes go through, I think Engineers will reign supreme in PvP…

Random Weird Guy.3528:

GhOst.4019:

Changes meh. Made condi more powerful. Nerfed might (good?) but that changes nothing in the spect that it is nerfed for everyone and still leaves everyone in the same boat.

You realise that not every single class relies on might right? Mostly the cele classes that people have been moaning about for so long.

You realize that every meta class revolves around might? EVERY one, Eles stack might fastest, engi stack might…warrior stacks might…and then the 1 or 2 zerker class per team obviously stacks might. It is a nerf to all. Now the Sigil is not used by all so that is really good, but might in general is used by all and therefore a nerf to all.

We did get a 4 month balance patch so I guess that an improvement. Maybe 4 months and we get another?

Plus.7209:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Engi celestial rifle nerf:

engi celestial before: 10/12 might stacks: 350/420 condi damage/power
engi celestial now: 7/9 stacks might (with different value): 240/300

Basically they lose 110-120 condi damage/power

7/9 stacks should give 210/270 now, for a total of 140/150 lost, with your numbers

My bad, I edited the values.

Thx

Ps. it’s not a little nerf imho.

Nebilim.5127:

I cannot quote this hard enough. The might nerfs might tone down celestial eles and engies, but 5 months wait for this? A few shaving here and there? What we need right now, is to defibrillator the meta, not just poke with a needle and see if it is still alive or not.

Guess this is it, countless feedback, and that’s that. See you guys in 5~6 months for another balance patch that will probably do kitten all. I have lost hope for pvp in this game.

Would you rather have kneejerk mega-nerfs instead of trying a few things at a time?

lordkrall.7241:

Nebilim.5127:

I cannot quote this hard enough. The might nerfs might tone down celestial eles and engies, but 5 months wait for this? A few shaving here and there? What we need right now, is to defibrillator the meta, not just poke with a needle and see if it is still alive or not.

Guess this is it, countless feedback, and that’s that. See you guys in 5~6 months for another balance patch that will probably do kitten all. I have lost hope for pvp in this game.

Would you rather have kneejerk mega-nerfs instead of trying a few things at a time?

Do you think what we have right now is working? I wouldn’t mind these kind of changes if we had a monthly cadence of update. That actually would be the best option.

But since we only get 2 update per year, so yeah big changes for something that has been rotten and stagnant.

I don’t understand why shave all Might, instead of shaving certain classes ability to stack it so high. A nerf to Might in general hits all classes, which in a way makes it sort of a wash (though it does hit might stacking classes slighty more, the more you gain the more you lose), it also hurts my ranger because now my pet with 15 might stacks will do significantly less damage, and my axe just took a small nerf as well. Did ranger need such a nerf?

lordkrall.7241:

Nebilim.5127:

I cannot quote this hard enough. The might nerfs might tone down celestial eles and engies, but 5 months wait for this? A few shaving here and there? What we need right now, is to defibrillator the meta, not just poke with a needle and see if it is still alive or not.

Guess this is it, countless feedback, and that’s that. See you guys in 5~6 months for another balance patch that will probably do kitten all. I have lost hope for pvp in this game.

Would you rather have kneejerk mega-nerfs instead of trying a few things at a time?

Actually, yes. I’d much rather have huge and most of all meaningful changes rather than these tiny tweaks we always get. At times it feels like they’re afraid of making changes that aren’t small scale. It’s as if they think the game already is balanced.

-no nerf to passive procs
-no nerf to supply drop
-no nerf to stealth
-no nerf to condi spam autoattacks
-no nerf to celestial stats
-no passive proc indicators
-trait tree filled with worthless traits
-metabattle still/already has the best builds
-this balace patch roll-out rate
ESPORTS

lordkrall.7241:

Would you rather have kneejerk mega-nerfs instead of trying a few things at a time?

I’d buy your argument if they updated more frequently, but they don’t. With their update schedule, they should be doing more than they are.

Shrapnel Grenade nerf? really? dont think I ever heard anyone complain about that. I expected increased CDs on rifle CC and gear shield.

BTW it’s amazing they didn’t touch Engi turrets.

It’s kitten for the game.

The might nerf is pretty small. Its 125 less power maxed out at 25 stacks. So 500 power instead of 625. Are people really maxing out on might mainly because of battle sigils? And if they are is reducing the amount from 3 to 2 going to stop it? Isn’t the duration they last for more of the problem? No nerfs to Engineers makes me ha. Yay for Guardian Shield changes however.

Uuni.6091:

-no nerf to passive procs
-no nerf to supply drop
-no nerf to stealth
-no nerf to condi spam autoattacks
-no nerf to celestial stats
-no passive proc indicators
-trait tree filled with worthless traits
-metabattle still/already has the best builds
-this balace patch roll-out rate
ESPORTS

You know, you could think about all the things that DID get done and not the things that DIDN’T get done since it’s impossible to have true perfect balance in any game.

MarkPhilips.5169:

BTW it’s amazing they didn’t touch Engi turrets.

It’s kitten for the game.

So why does nobody ever use them in tournaments?

And they forgot to nerf Spatial Surge Stow weapon issue.

Interesting, many of these changes are close/related to the leaked patch notes, in addition to some the matchmaking/queueing stuff that was implemented on Tuesday. I wonder if they actually weren’t fake, but just early thoughts? If that’s the case, there are many good changes they still need to put in.
If anyone would like to see the leaked notes pm me and I’ll send the link.
I feel like seeing more potential changes will spark discussion in the right direction. My current thoughts are that these changes are not enough.

Thanks for sharing those changes upfront, Josh! Appretiated.

…Might…

Feels reasonable and the nerf is quite significant. I’m not sure if it is enough to bring Celestial builds on a level with others, though. They will still pack a considerable amount of survivability and I’m not sure if the damage will be much lower than that of non-Might-stacking offensive builds.

…Confusion…

It doesn’t solve the issue of slow hitting Monsters in PvE. Confusion will most certainly remain underwhelming in this area of the game. A flat 33% boost is still nice to have, though.

…Elementalist…

Some changes to meta builds which I consider reasonable. In combination with the Might changes CElementalists might settle down on a moderate level of omph.

…Engineer…

Not to exciting for me. But:

Throw Mine: The proximity trigger for this skill has been increased from a range of 60 to 120. Additionally, the explosion radius has been increased from 180 to 240.

Bunker Down says “Hiiiiii!”. A slight range increase on those mines would be nice. Maybe not 120. But what about 80? 60 is just ridiciulous.

…Guardian Shield…

The reduced cooldown on Shield of Absorbtion sounds great. Shield of Justice remains meh. Where is the general usability? The damage is aweful and the Protection uptime will still not be reasonable. This skill needs more than a cooldown reduction.

…Mesmer…

Appretiated but not that exciting, really. The change on Deception is nice to have but won’t change much. Phantasmal Mage might become more useful in duels/roaming but probably won’t matter in PvP or PvE. Time Warp is a flat buff but a pretty boring one. I’d prefer it becoming a Glamour skill.

…Necromancers…

Not sure if I get the Signet of Locust change. Corrosive Poison Cloud still feels unappealing. And this…

Locust Swarm: The casting time of this skill has been reduced from 1 second to 0.5 seconds.

Dev note: This change will give necromancers a bit more mobility.

Err… 0.5 seconds more mobility per rotation I guess?

…Ranger…

Nothing too exciting. Torch could really need more work than just some number tweaking.

…Thief…

Trap love. They need it. Not sure if those changes will help, though.

I wonder of Invigorating Precision will be more attractive now. Anyone got numbers?

…Warrior…

Meh.

Please nerf the incendiary powder duration, ANET.

Passive procs are NOT FUN.

Nebilim.5127:

Narkodx.1472:

Why did you not actually nerf engineers?

These changes will not change much simply a nudge in the right direction

We need a LEAP in the right direction

I cannot quote this hard enough. The might nerfs might tone down celestial eles and engies, but 5 months wait for this? A few shaving here and there? What we need right now, is to defibrillator the meta, not just poke with a needle and see if it is still alive or not.

Guess this is it, countless feedback, and that’s that. See you guys in 5~6 months for another balance patch that will probably do kitten all. I have lost hope for pvp in this game.

Lets not completely destroy these classes shall we?
A reduction of 140-150 power is approximately 30-40 damage without damage modifiers. That’s 60-80 extra crit damage. In a course of a fight, that’s a reduction of between 1100-1800 damage. That’s just raw damage… not including conditions.

It’s actually a solid nerf to these Celestial Might stacking builds.

I believe I read a post a month ago where someone showed that simply reducing might stacks from 3 to 2 would actually have a huge effect at stopping the “celestial” issue for the current meta that give huge might increases.

I don’t remember the math, and I dont play a celestial ele so I can’t reproduce the line of reasoning.

Why the blanket nerf to might?

Please consider nerfing the ability for single classes to stack might.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

So why does nobody ever use them in tournaments?

Because it’s so brainless that people probably feel ashamed to use it.

But turret engi build has an amazing low skill cap and too high rewards.

It needs balance.

ELE will still be good.

Xaylin.1860:

The change on Deception is nice to have but won’t change much.

If you’re 1v1ing a thief and you go down but the thief is 10% hp, he can’t stealth stomp you anymore, which buys you time to kill him with illusionary rogue, which will also lead to possibly winning downed fight.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

So why does nobody ever use them in tournaments?

Because it’s so brainless that people probably feel ashamed to use it.

But turret engi build has an amazing low skill cap and too high rewards.

It needs balance.

No because the only one that does reasonable dps is rocket which you can focus down, thumper obviously don’t stand next to it, rifle does very little damage except for it’s OK damage when it’s overcharged.

The only thing it’s good for is 1v1ing on point, but just don’t go to that point on your own and the engi has to just stand there and be useless to his team, or pick up his turrets to move somewhere else, allowing you to take advantage of the cooldowns.

Also as a burst class, attack him off point and he either has to waste his turrets off point or reach the point with 25% hp.

Nice changes but is this all? Basically no real nerfs to Cele Engi/Shout warrior/Turret engi/Overcharged Shot?

Ele/engi stacking will remain a thing and nothing will change if this is all.

Josh Davis.6015:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Dear Anet, please stop nerfing all game modes only because of pvp. Nerfing might instead of celestial amulet is not good solution.

Rednik.3809:

Josh Davis.6015:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Dear Anet, please stop nerfing all game modes only because of pvp. Nerfing might instead of celestial amulet is not good solution.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-cant-we-have-difficult-content

People are asking for PvE to be harder, nerfing might slightly will make PvE harder.
Problem?

Random Weird Guy.3528:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

So why does nobody ever use them in tournaments?

Because it’s so brainless that people probably feel ashamed to use it.

But turret engi build has an amazing low skill cap and too high rewards.

It needs balance.

No because the only one that does reasonable dps is rocket which you can focus down, thumper obviously don’t stand next to it, rifle does very little damage except for it’s OK damage when it’s overcharged.

The only thing it’s good for is 1v1ing on point, but just don’t go to that point on your own and the engi has to just stand there and be useless to his team, or pick up his turrets to move somewhere else, allowing you to take advantage of the cooldowns.

Also as a burst class, attack him off point and he either has to waste his turrets off point or reach the point with 25% hp.

One of the main differences with other IA builds is that turrets are immune to critics and conditions.

I’d start to change this aspect.

These changes are quite minimal. As another concurrent tournament player there’s still an obvious gap in the required mechanics to play some of the classes touched here. They are still sub-par changes in which I feel could be a bit more in depth.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

People are asking for PvE to be harder, nerfing might slightly will make PvE harder.
Problem?

Nerfing DPS doesn’t make PvE harder, it makes it more tedious.