Guild Wars 2

Zelulose.8695:

Now we just have to figure out who is responsible for changing the skills currently because they do change. There is a mystery team who does these changes.

Karl Mclain is in charge of the balancing team, dunno who else is on it currently though. I suspect many of the people who worked on HOT class design such as Robert Gee and Irenio are working on the next xpac.

virus.4370:

JTGuevara.9018:

Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.

What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.

HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.

well to me it’s discrimination. the discrimination of bunker build players..they hate us..and they took our amulets..and add more damage based ones..it’s nothing more then hate and discrimination against bunker, healers, and def. players

+ 10000000000 Exactly, they want us all running some stupid glass cannon super power build where whoever shoots the other person first wins, some one some where wants to turn gw2 into a shooter game like call of duty or some crap like that, it’s been heading into that direction for quite some time now, slowly but surely. I’m not sure who wants an mmorpg like that but I am sure most people don’t….

morrolan.9608:

Zelulose.8695:

Now we just have to figure out who is responsible for changing the skills currently because they do change. There is a mystery team who does these changes.

Karl Mclain is in charge of the balancing team, dunno who else is on it currently though. I suspect many of the people who worked on HOT class design such as Robert Gee and Irenio are working on the next xpac.

well Karl Mclain and his team must be attack builds..so they hate def players…where is the def player..and the healing players defender..we get shorted every time..no nomad..no cleric..no def/healing amulets..so not cool

I have to agree that I’m rather miffed at the constant nerfing and removal of bunker/support builds and tools too. It really is pushing PvP into a mode where it’s “KILL FASTFASTFAST SPAM 5/2/swap/1/1 ENEMYDOWN FASTER!” Most fights in PvP now are over within seconds unless the player is running one of the meta builds like Gyro Engi and Mace/Shield Warrior. There’s hardly any time for proper counterplay or kiting or using terrain to win fights. It’s all down to who can pump out more damage using high burst while their defensive stuff is on cooldown.

There really needs to be more build diversity. The meta is a meta for a reason, and it’s usually not because “X build is fun to play!” It’s because it works REALLY well.

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

virus.4370:

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

Nomads amulet is “bit” different it’s worse than ministrels and on par with dire.
To make nomads and ministrels acceptable they would have to reduce healing and active defenses to necro levels on all professions.

Acceptable levels of sustain IMO for a bunker/support is being able to stall 1v1 forever against most builds and losing 1v2 in less than 30 seconds all of that on the same skill level.

well i hope this means they will nerf Offense next

cuz now the favored classes now are thief,guard,rev,mesmer and support

Varezenem.2813:

virus.4370:

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

Nomads amulet is “bit” different it’s worse than ministrels and on par with dire.
To make nomads and ministrels acceptable they would have to reduce healing and active defenses to necro levels on all professions.

Acceptable levels of sustain for a bunker/support is being able to stall 1v1 forever against most builds and losing 1v2 in less than 30 seconds all of that on the same skill level.

why..they don’t lower the zerkers and other attack based ones..

Varezenem.2813:

virus.4370:

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

Nomads amulet is “bit” different it’s worse than ministrels and on par with dire.
To make nomads and ministrels acceptable they would have to reduce healing and active defenses to necro levels on all professions.

Acceptable levels of sustain IMO for a bunker/support is being able to stall 1v1 forever against most builds and losing 1v2 in less than 30 seconds all of that on the same skill level.

and 30 sec..please do you not understand the word bunker… a protective embankment or dugout; especially : a fortified chamber mostly below ground often built of reinforced concrete and provided with embrasures…basically it should be able to survive massive damage and attack..

virus.4370:

Varezenem.2813:

virus.4370:

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

Nomads amulet is “bit” different it’s worse than ministrels and on par with dire.
To make nomads and ministrels acceptable they would have to reduce healing and active defenses to necro levels on all professions.

Acceptable levels of sustain IMO for a bunker/support is being able to stall 1v1 forever against most builds and losing 1v2 in less than 30 seconds all of that on the same skill level.

and 30 sec..please do you not understand the word bunker… a protective embankment or dugout; especially : a fortified chamber mostly below ground often built of reinforced concrete and provided with embrasures…basically it should be able to survive massive damage and attack..

You do understand that the main SPvP mode is conquest right? Ministrels and nomads with the current balance produces matches worse than S1 where some matches ended without anyone scoring a point.

The way I look at it, a bunker build should be able to hold out against a 1v1 indefinitely (unless the offensive build is based around shutdown), struggle against a 2v1 (but might still manage it if the bunker player is good), and definitely fail against a 3v1.

If a bunker can survive 3v1, it’s too powerful and needs to be nerfed. If it fails instantly against 2v1, it’s slightly too weak. (It needs to be able to hold out for at least 10 – 30s)

Looks like you need skill to win now its a good thing. I’m not terribly angry at them for their changes I just wanted to address the right person. Apparently forums are really pointless besides idle discussion because the people listening cant help us.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

What the actual kitten. this explains so much. You guys need to split the traits/skills and take control from the “profession teams” They are making pvp absolutely horrible.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

-Grouch

Hey Grouch, so if the goal was to reduce support and increase the pace of combat, why wasn’t the first option to simply change the amulet to be more offense focus without completely removing it? It would have made MUCH for sense to reduce the healing power and/or toughness and add a fourth stat, like precision or ferocity? Yes, crusader’s was pretty good on a druid, but it wasn’t dominant or over-bearing. It is more of a bruiser amulet anyway, and is truly best on classes that have heals that scale very well with healing power (guardian and ele) with little risk of buffing scrapper whose heals don’t scale very well with healing power (having high base healing and poor scaling).

Similarly, rather than just delete something like cele, why weren’t the stats just reduced? Clearly, there is a sweet spot for stats somewhere between where cele was back at launch (when it was unusable) and when it was deleted (when it was prevalent). Is it a matter of not having the patience to let people gradually adjust and needing to force them into a change?

Josh Davis.6015:

the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance.

LOL well then it´s no surprise that things are like they are………………………

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

What about non-elite specs? I am not interested in PvE anymore so buying HoT for 4-5 specs wasn’t the life I was about. I hope that’s understandable. What’s my core Ele to do then? I felt pigeon-holed before and now there is no hole really whatsoever. Wholesale removal of the amulet feels like the path of least resistance. It doesn’t feel like the grandiose words that get bandied around by the staff when they are hyping a patch. The words are much grander than the result. I hope that makes sense as well.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

So what is your reasoning as to why WvW players keep getting screwed over by the PvE buffs you keep giving and forget that WvW is a game mode that should be seperate as well. WvW = PvP balance + PvE power creep. It is a nightmare for anybody who doesn’t have 20+ people in a blob.

Iason Evan.3806:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

What about non-elite specs? I am not interested in PvE anymore so buying HoT for 4-5 specs wasn’t the life I was about. I hope that’s understandable. What’s my core Ele to do then? I felt pigeon-holed before and now there is no hole really whatsoever. Wholesale removal of the amulet feels like the path of least resistance. It doesn’t feel like the grandiose words that get bandied around by the staff when they are hyping a patch. The words are much grander than the result. I hope that makes sense as well.

The elementalist class is just made to be played with Celestial. Anything else and build variety is just gone. The class was also made with the old trait system in mind, because builds for the elementalist depends on stats more than with the other classes. Diversity had taken a hit first when that change was made.

A good balance team would have nerfed the celestial amulet by 5% or 7% after some testing. I presume that it’s the balance team that didn’t want to balance it so the PvP team removed it. Its probably just a miscommunication that lead to more impactful complications than what they imagined.

Why cant the PvP team balance PvP, WvW team balance WvW and PvE team balance PvE?

When the balance team do changes we should be able to test them on a test server, and also they should have to demonstrate why the changes are good.

Xillllix.3485:

Iason Evan.3806:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

What about non-elite specs? I am not interested in PvE anymore so buying HoT for 4-5 specs wasn’t the life I was about. I hope that’s understandable. What’s my core Ele to do then? I felt pigeon-holed before and now there is no hole really whatsoever. Wholesale removal of the amulet feels like the path of least resistance. It doesn’t feel like the grandiose words that get bandied around by the staff when they are hyping a patch. The words are much grander than the result. I hope that makes sense as well.

The elementalist class is just made to be played with Celestial. Anything else and build variety is just gone. The class was also made with the old trait system in mind, because builds for the elementalist depends on stats more than with the other classes. Diversity had taken a hit first when that change was made.

A good balance team would have nerfed the celestial amulet by 5% or 7% after some testing. I presume that it’s the balance team that didn’t want to balance it so the PvP team removed it. Its probably just a miscommunication that lead to more impactful complications than what they imagined.

Why cant the PvP team balance PvP, WvW team balance WvW and PvE team balance PvE?

When the balance team do changes we should be able to test them on a test server, and also they should have to demonstrate why the changes are good.

Hell they could make class only amulets to help with this issues since clearly the gw2 engine design is so bad they cant split skills/traits well

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

-Grouch

I don’t want to criticize too much, but I will ask few questions since PvP team more or less look at PvP forum:

What vision do you have in future PvP?
How do you achieve your vision if you can only change amulet/sigil/runes?
Will PvP/PvE skill split be an opportunity for you guys to take control?

I know AMA sort of touched on my third question but you guys didn’t exactly answer it, please take the time to answer them as I’m sure many of us are wondering about that. I understand PvP is a difficult job for you guys due to department structural issues but continual communication is important to keep player base engaged.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Still, it’s no wonder PvP is suffering. You guys have ONE skills/balance team for all game modes. Players have constantly suggested for months, years, separate balance for all game modes. How is the PvP team not involved in balancing their own game mode! Ludicrous! Why not have one balance team each for PvP, WvW and PvE?

I understand that you guys had to have your development set up this way, but you all need to CHANGE that philosophy. You guys have a ridiculous system! The PvP team HAS to get involved in game balance, not just features! Changing features/amulets without balancing pvp just breaks it even further.

JTGuevara.9018:

Why not have one balance team each for PvP, WvW and PvE?

Because we have no balance team at all.

The ANet devs don’t realize the most important thing:

• For PvP, balance is everything

How the kitten that the PvP team doesn’t own the balance team? Why the kitten that we let the PvE team dictate the balance when PvE is mostly about playing with AI? Like, WTF?

I wonder when this situation for ele’s will be fixed if warrior’s needed two seasons to be fixed and get amulet that works for them. Something tells me that in season 6…

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Forget about the removal of the amulet. Elementalist’s damage builds cannot compete with their counterparts. You guys have known about this since the release of HOT. Most of the amulets you introduce cannot be used by the profession because of the low base health.

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Xillllix.3485:

…
A good balance team would have nerfed the celestial amulet by 5% or 7% after some testing. I presume that it’s the balance team that didn’t want to balance it so the PvP team removed it. Its probably just a miscommunication that lead to more impactful complications than what they imagined.

Why cant the PvP team balance PvP, WvW team balance WvW and PvE team balance PvE?

When the balance team do changes we should be able to test them on a test server, and also they should have to demonstrate why the changes are good.

The amulet are the work done by the PVP team.

Shaving 5% stats on celestial would had been more work than deleting it.

Having a test server for balance, is a long time “inquiry” of Anet paying customer.

I still think that the amulet system is flawed and that being at the mercy of removal / change of those amulet is bad.

We are RPG players that want to PVP. We want control on our stats like PVE and WvW.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Hell they could make class only amulets to help with this issues since clearly the gw2 engine design is so bad they cant split skills/traits well

+1

I am sorry, the PVP team just said they are not responsible (meaning powerless).

I agree that at least the bad amulet system should be tailored by classes (only in case one amulet is OP versus other for 1 class). (in programmation putting a class filter on amulet is not that long)

Since Tempest is already skills/traits nerfed, they just have the POWER to simply put back the Cleric Amulet.

The balance team had done his work.

The PVP team in removing the amulet after the balance is done, is responsible for this.

They overdone this patch, with this in mind:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”.

So… it’s not a balanced issue, nor a PVP team can’t balance things up.

The balance team had made great changes to balance the META up for all game mode.

The PVP team did a cowboy move in removing the only support viable amulet for low health point class. At least, they should redesign Cleric and “standardize” health points pool across classes.

Personally, as a forever elementalist I liked they took those amulets away, but I can’t understand how past almost a year they haven’t made a viable DPS build for us, a shame.

I don’t know is if this a good idea or not, but personally I think they need to rework the stats contribution of each amulet for each class separately.

Jourdelune.7456:

The balance team had made great changes to balance the META up for all game mode.

No, this game hasn’t been balanced for now 1,5 years – there were some minor shavings here and there but it’s still the same old same old.
The PvP team tried to make combat better for you but all they can do is playing with the runes.
I’m a wvw player – I only read the pvp forum for possible balance changes – so I know that nothing has changed at all.

Pyriall.1683:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Forget about the removal of the amulet. Elementalist’s damage builds cannot compete with their counterparts. You guys have known about this since the release of HOT. Most of the amulets you introduce cannot be used by the profession because of the low base health.

I hope is that they actually read this thread in a positive way and realize they have to change the way they do class balance, or who in their team should do class balance.

Bringing celestial back would be a start. Or they completely scrap that system, and let us use our gear stats (with a pvp global scaling for each stats).

Khainz.6215:

Personally, as a forever elementalist I liked they took those amulets away, but I can’t understand how past almost a year they haven’t made a viable DPS build for us, a shame.

I don’t know is if this a good idea or not, but personally I think they need to rework the stats contribution of each amulet for each class separately.

It’s not just about stats on amulets. Fundamentally the DPS builds, unless they increased damage output so far that you are one shotting someone, cannot compete with builds that have offense/defense built into the same abilities. The other profession’s damaging builds provide so much more than what the elementalist is capable of currently.

Varezenem.2813:

virus.4370:

Varezenem.2813:

virus.4370:

i’m ticked as well..awhile back i complained about no ventari amulet..and people jumped me left and right.. at that time i said this day would come..they are trying to rid pvp of bunkers and healers, it goes against the whole mission statement of gws 2 play your way.

Nomads amulet is “bit” different it’s worse than ministrels and on par with dire.
To make nomads and ministrels acceptable they would have to reduce healing and active defenses to necro levels on all professions.

Acceptable levels of sustain IMO for a bunker/support is being able to stall 1v1 forever against most builds and losing 1v2 in less than 30 seconds all of that on the same skill level.

and 30 sec..please do you not understand the word bunker… a protective embankment or dugout; especially : a fortified chamber mostly below ground often built of reinforced concrete and provided with embrasures…basically it should be able to survive massive damage and attack..

You do understand that the main SPvP mode is conquest right? Ministrels and nomads with the current balance produces matches worse than S1 where some matches ended without anyone scoring a point.

so you just want easy wins..isn’t the whole point of player vs player to put your skills to the test fighting other players…that hard to do when the def and support players are handicapped.. it’s easy to claim your good when you have the advantage.. if you are an attack player normally. that is your playing style, no need for you to change it up,on the other hand someone who plays def. or support has to learn a new style to play pvp…so those who normally play that style have an unfair advantage. they have more practice playing that way, so more use to the skill chains..you seem to only care about fast matches..i hope in pvp you end up with me on your team..because since def. and support and they are nerfed, i will be useless and a carry.. and i will not change and, i hope all others who play def/support do the same ..i hope all nerfed def/support players drag down your wins and pips…lol…until you and anet learn we are still here and refuse to have our playing style taken..because attack player don’t want to earn wins, and just want wins handed to them.

heck why not just make it like the gws 1 dragon arena..1 shot kills no attack no def ..just an open floor..since attack players just want fast matches..every skill is a 1 hit kill..since they don’t want def players and support players..make it simple everybody has 1 skill..lol…that was the gws 1 dragon arena..no armor stats..everyone have the same life same magic..same skill..all skills are 1 hit kills..lets make it even, since that is what attack players want fast kills..

Josh Davis.6015:

I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Except you don’t really balance things with this, but instead force the game in another direction imho.

I consider this the best modification for the game. It makes players think and play, both at the same time. Now positioning matters, having the first hit matters, fast combinations matter, because everybody is glasscannon.

We are all equal. We are all dps using our abilities for dmg, cc and positioning. That is all there is now.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Please add more sigils.

Alin.2468:

I consider this the best modification for the game. It makes players think and play, both at the same time. Now positioning matters, having the first hit matters, fast combinations matter, because everybody is glasscannon.

We are all equal. We are all dps using our abilities for dmg, cc and positioning. That is all there is now.

That is not true. Inherent in some of the profession design is sustain along with damage. Too many professions have huge sustain and damage while others just have damage.

Pyriall.1683:

Alin.2468:

I consider this the best modification for the game. It makes players think and play, both at the same time. Now positioning matters, having the first hit matters, fast combinations matter, because everybody is glasscannon.

We are all equal. We are all dps using our abilities for dmg, cc and positioning. That is all there is now.

That is not true. Inherent in some of the profession design is sustain along with damage. Too many professions have huge sustain and damage while others just have damage.

While other have just sustain. (ele)

And some have subpar damage versus others… (scrapper, necro, mesmer)

@Grouch make some amulets class specific rather than removing them.

See post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-amulets-only-some-classes-can-use/first#post6265453

why not make you use your pve gear and items..like in gws 1

Spartacus.3192:

@Grouch make some amulets class specific rather than removing them.

See post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-amulets-only-some-classes-can-use/first#post6265453

+1.

But he didn’t chose to remove Cleric because Tempest was OP. (since the real balance team did nerf a lot on Tempest sustain)

He did so, to have a faster game pace.

Yeah, he think that removing an archetype from the game, will help get that game better.

I didn’t but HOT so I can’t use Druid, but as a long-time Ranger I still had an awesome healing tank build using the Cleric amulet. It wasn’t perfect, but it had great group support and good bunker in most solo fights. Now that is gone.

Spartacus.3192:

@Grouch make some amulets class specific rather than removing them.

See post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-amulets-only-some-classes-can-use/first#post6265453

This would be probably the easiest way to fix ele problems right now – just give ele exclusive celestial till proper dps could be developed.

On other hand clearly pvp team didn’t had clue how cleric removal will effect tempest (and lack of communications between class balance team) I doubt they will be competent enough to give proper exclusive amulets on other classes -i just imagined magi for warrior. I know this sounds harsh but this is better explanation then they destroyed ele on purpose.

Eles won’t be a thing in high ranked pvp games, it will get to the point where an engi or Druid will be able to bunk better than an ele
Anet wants diverse builds, people want diverse builds with ele- you’re not getting it clearly.
Every weapon for every class should be viable in pvp based on which build fits what situation. I want to be a staff ele, not tempest bc you can interrupt tempest too easily with overloads. Eles are being pushed into a bunk corner, and nowhere else. Thank you anet for giving eles a kick to the teeth- there will still be eles, just not as often

Chasind.3128:

Eles won’t be a thing in high ranked pvp games, it will get to the point where an engi or Druid will be able to bunk better than an ele
Anet wants diverse builds, people want diverse builds with ele- you’re not getting it clearly.
Every weapon for every class should be viable in pvp based on which build fits what situation. I want to be a staff ele, not tempest bc you can interrupt tempest too easily with overloads. Eles are being pushed into a bunk corner, and nowhere else. Thank you anet for giving eles a kick to the teeth- there will still be eles, just not as often

Well now that they can’t nerf druid/engineer by removing amulets they will have to nerf their sustain directly which is a good thing because currently they are the best at sustaining.

virus.4370:

heck why not just make it like the gws 1 dragon arena..1 shot kills no attack no def ..just an open floor..since attack players just want fast matches..every skill is a 1 hit kill..since they don’t want def players and support players..make it simple everybody has 1 skill..lol…that was the gws 1 dragon arena..no armor stats..everyone have the same life same magic..same skill..all skills are 1 hit kills..lets make it even, since that is what attack players want fast kills..

That’s EXACTLY what I said pvp in this game was turning into, like a couple weeks ago (and I never liked dragon arena)

Ellie.5913:

I think a lot of people want gw2 play style to be something like this, and it is getting closer and closer to it imo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FruDiBguzM

I loled hard great comparison. Let them fix sustain fist then we can see this power creep go away.

There are two steps.
1. Nerf Rev, Ranger, Warrior, Engi, mesmer sustain.
2. Fix rediculous damage such as Rev. Gurd. Mesmer. Thief. Warrior.

At that point GW2 will be based on skill alone. Noone can out heal you noone can one shot you. You have time to react but not too much.

Wait sorry. To clarify. The PVP team. The player vs player team is in fact NOT in charge of game balance? As in major trait, boon, weapon dps changes? What the F? Does anyone else find that to be a big problem considering PVP is the game type where balance matters the most? I mean not to belittle PVE but it’s player versus environment. I don’t wanna say who cares but like, for a game trying with the “esports” scene, don’t you think PVP balance is kinda way more important?