Guild Wars 2

Jourdelune.7456:

How the pvp “dev” team, are not developer?

It comes down to how broadly you want to interpret what a developer is. There are a wide variety of skill sets ‘developing’ the game, from map artists to core code programmers to reward economists to gameplay designers to skill balance – on top of the explicitly non-development jobs like HR, finance, marketing.

The PvP team is descended from the PvP Events team, which was originally scoped to promote and manage esports. Due to subject familiarity (and the nature of S&M) I presume there’s a lot of crossover and coordination with functional / content teams.

Point being, in a sensible organization, if you’re unhappy with the way the game is being balanced you’d give feedback to the S&M team that you want something different which they’d sort through and pass on to the respective balance or gameplay designers. A.Net has some very, very good skills and balance people – if what they’re delivering isn’t getting the desired results it’s because you aren’t asking them to do the right thing.

Dear ANet devs, whatever you’re thinking about to fix the balance situation, please don’t consider adding Cele and Cleric back to PvP. Ele needs to be balanced in a way that it doesn’t need to be carried by bunker amulets in PvP.

It’s fine if Ele becomes the bottom tier class this season. People are starting to realize how Ele was pigeonholed into bunker/support roles because nothing else worked. This is why we need to keep Cleric and Cele out of PvP, so the real balance team can actually fix Ele and give it some non-bunker builds that works.

The plus side is also that the fast pace games are more fun than the Cleric bunker ones. I agree with you on that

Ensign.2189:

Jourdelune.7456:

How the pvp “dev” team, are not developer?

It comes down to how broadly you want to interpret what a developer is. There are a wide variety of skill sets ‘developing’ the game, from map artists to core code programmers to reward economists to gameplay designers to skill balance – on top of the explicitly non-development jobs like HR, finance, marketing.

The PvP team is descended from the PvP Events team, which was originally scoped to promote and manage esports. Due to subject familiarity (and the nature of S&M) I presume there’s a lot of crossover and coordination with functional / content teams.

Point being, in a sensible organization, if you’re unhappy with the way the game is being balanced you’d give feedback to the S&M team that you want something different which they’d sort through and pass on to the respective balance or gameplay designers. A.Net has some very, very good skills and balance people – if what they’re delivering isn’t getting the desired results it’s because you aren’t asking them to do the right thing.

so we aren’t asking them to do the right thing…
hmm….
ok so they understand what we are asking for. i will make it simple, just for them.

1) Restore the Cleric Amulet
2) undo Anti support designs for pvp.

maybe that will help them understand what we want.

virus.4370:

Ensign.2189:

Jourdelune.7456:

How the pvp “dev” team, are not developer?

It comes down to how broadly you want to interpret what a developer is. There are a wide variety of skill sets ‘developing’ the game, from map artists to core code programmers to reward economists to gameplay designers to skill balance – on top of the explicitly non-development jobs like HR, finance, marketing.

The PvP team is descended from the PvP Events team, which was originally scoped to promote and manage esports. Due to subject familiarity (and the nature of S&M) I presume there’s a lot of crossover and coordination with functional / content teams.

Point being, in a sensible organization, if you’re unhappy with the way the game is being balanced you’d give feedback to the S&M team that you want something different which they’d sort through and pass on to the respective balance or gameplay designers. A.Net has some very, very good skills and balance people – if what they’re delivering isn’t getting the desired results it’s because you aren’t asking them to do the right thing.

so we aren’t asking them to do the right thing…
hmm….
ok so they understand what we are asking for. i will make it simple, just for them.

1) Restore the Cleric Amulet
2) undo Anti support designs for pvp.

maybe that will help them understand what we want.

agree

1: return Cleric.
2: Analyse what the replacement for Cleric should be or rather what mechanic will an ele use to be viable in sustained 5v5 with no toughness and low hp.
3: Introduce replacement
4: Evaluate
5: Remove Cleric.

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Did you even read my post? I just said grouch wasn’t to blame because he’s in marketing for the company, I also never said that we should not hold people accountable, just not grouch in this situation. If you’re going to play the blame game direct your nonsense at someone that’s actually responsible.

Countless

Nice signature!

“I already quit PvP. Just log on to troll here and there”

Great post!

10/10 would get b8ed again.

Do not add Cleric back to the game.

From an elementalist main.

Trigr.6481:

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Did you even read my post? I just said grouch wasn’t to blame because he’s in marketing for the company, I also never said that we should not hold people accountable, just not grouch in this situation. If you’re going to play the blame game direct your nonsense at someone that’s actually responsible.

Countless

I think you misunderstood me.

I am not Blaming Grouch (I never said his name BTW), not Blaming anyone.

The one who made the blaming game here, is the one who said the balanced team didn’t balanced the Tempest properly.

From what I read on patch notes, the massives nerf to ele seems suffisant. Removing the cleric amulet was not to Balance the Tempest.

From the WORDs of Grouch:

“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

You don’t like the Truth? I am not the messenger (Grouch) nor a member of Anet. So I am powerless, much more than those (who did choose) that chose to remove the support archetype in the game.

I don’t care if the DEV team is BLACK, YELLOW or PINK.

I do care about support being able to do their work with VIABLE Archetype in META.

Paladin tempest / guard / whatever can’t heat the cleave of 1 dps. How to rez if 1 dps cleave, while 1 support rez and the cleave win all the time?

So, please keep your “blaming” game for yourself.

Hahaha, so because ELE cleric are so good and most Ele want to play a viable roamer spec, ELE ask to not bring back an amulet that rez/cleanses and heals them for 4 years on more than half the classes?

I am all for a Roamer DPS ELE that work.
I am all for a DECAP Bruiser ELE that Work.

Please, don’t remove an archetype for other classes (and your’s) to achieve this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/New-to-PvP-Start-here/first#post3383589

Honestly i played ele with menders a few days ago and it still seems viable enough. More easily bursted down, but still contributes greatly to team fights.

Why don’t we just have one do it all class and everyone can play it. That’s what we seem to be heading toward.

Kuya.6495:

Honestly i played ele with menders a few days ago and it still seems viable enough. More easily bursted down, but still contributes greatly to team fights.

Well, my team train (and is still looking for 1 more) each night of the week.

We stack META classes. Tempest is not an option our team choose.

We rekt all team with ELE whatever in it, including Magi (best sustain no damage at all) – Mender or whatever.

Bursting down a Tempest Cleric in 2v1 was so easy, all PRO could do that.

So… bursting down a Mender Tempest in 1v1 with thief, rev, warrior, mesmer, DH, resper is NOW True! Run or Die. (of course, at equal skill level).

Doesn’t matter to me if they add it back it had no damage and menders does just fine with some toughness runes/traits/skills stat wise.

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Did you even read my post? I just said grouch wasn’t to blame because he’s in marketing for the company, I also never said that we should not hold people accountable, just not grouch in this situation. If you’re going to play the blame game direct your nonsense at someone that’s actually responsible.

Countless

I think you misunderstood me.

I am not Blaming Grouch (I never said his name BTW), not Blaming anyone.

The one who made the blaming game here, is the one who said the balanced team didn’t balanced the Tempest properly.

From what I read on patch notes, the massives nerf to ele seems suffisant. Removing the cleric amulet was not to Balance the Tempest.

From the WORDs of Grouch:

“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

You don’t like the Truth? I am not the messenger (Grouch) nor a member of Anet. So I am powerless, much more than those (who did choose) that chose to remove the support archetype in the game.

I don’t care if the DEV team is BLACK, YELLOW or PINK.

I do care about support being able to do their work with VIABLE Archetype in META.

Paladin tempest / guard / whatever can’t heat the cleave of 1 dps. How to rez if 1 dps cleave, while 1 support rez and the cleave win all the time?

So, please keep your “blaming” game for yourself.

Tempest is the support Specialization. Taking support away from Tempest leaves it gutted. The problem isn’t that they nerfed Tempest. The problem is that they nerfed Tempest AND they didn’t add a new playstyle for ele. Like you said, support builds are struggling to do their jobs now. The only thing Tempest has other than support is sub-par fresh air burst specs. If massively nerfing professions is needed to be “sufficient,” they should have at least sufficiently compensated Eles elsewhere. The way balance is being handled just makes people angry and not want to play.

What? Tempest is suppot? They have a bunch of aoe damage dealing overloads. Other then that their core role hasn’t changed much when transferring into elite spec.

Look at druid it got pure aoe heals from its celestial forum and aoe heals from traits now that is support I can’t understand people who think ele is support when other classes are better at supporting.

Zelulose.8695:

What? Tempest is suppot? They have a bunch of aoe damage dealing overloads. Other then that their core role hasn’t changed much when transferring into elite spec.

Look at druid it got pure aoe heals from its celestial forum and aoe heals from traits now that is support I can’t understand people who think ele is support when other classes are better at supporting.

From my experience, support ele is usually better at bringing support and meaningful damage at the same time. They nerfed the support, they nerfed the damage, they removed the support + damage amulet.

Well if you think that I guess they did survive better than druid at least.

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

At this point PvP means nothing to me & will continue to mean nothing to me until balance is shown some proper TLC…

You won’t be seeing me back in the PvP scene due to the obvious neglect and uncaring nature anet has shown PvP…

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

At this point PvP means nothing to me & will continue to mean nothing to me until balance is shown some proper TLC…

You won’t be seeing me back in the PvP scene due to the obvious neglect and uncaring nature anet has shown PvP…

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

Clerics is unlikely to be OP on tempests by now. What we lose are all non-meta support/bunkers that relied on it.

gavyne.6847:

I dislike how there’s pretty much zero interaction between the “skills team” and us players. And we have to resort to pleading and yelling at the poor PvP & WvW teams for changes. Of course we didn’t know until now that these teams didn’t even have the abilities & authorities on making skills balance changes. No effing wonder.

I miss the HoT beta weekends where skills team actually talked with players on the forums, and they went on GW2’s twitch streams every week to talk about upcoming changes and to answer questions. Imagine what class balance would be like if they still did that, I think things would’ve been much better.

Robert Gee was a rock star who made beautiful elite specs out of necros & mesmers. I remember early HoT launch necros even had viable power reaper builds. Of course things got quickly nerfed down over time and now we’re left with only viable condi reaper builds for any competitive play. Blarggh.

My guess is that Anet locked them away to work on the next expansion. Just a guess. Because wheover’s in charge of this “one size fits all” skills team is doing a terrible job. Players across PvP, WvW, and to some extent PvE are quite unhappy with class balance. Oh yeah and I’m thinking Grouch probably took some heat for speaking the truth, because he kinda pulled a whistleblower heh.

We plead to the PvP team to balance the game because there’s nobody else around. The skills team, I’m guessing, has to create skills and balance for all modes, not just PvP. I don’t criticize the skill team as much. What I really criticize is the BALANCE STRUCTURE this game has. Game balance is just NOT distributed properly. There should always be one balance team for each mode ready to fix any critical issues.

Ensign.2189:

Jourdelune.7456:

How the pvp “dev” team, are not developer?

It comes down to how broadly you want to interpret what a developer is. There are a wide variety of skill sets ‘developing’ the game, from map artists to core code programmers to reward economists to gameplay designers to skill balance – on top of the explicitly non-development jobs like HR, finance, marketing.

The PvP team is descended from the PvP Events team, which was originally scoped to promote and manage esports. Due to subject familiarity (and the nature of S&M) I presume there’s a lot of crossover and coordination with functional / content teams.

They should not be making balance decisions at all then, which is largely what decisions on amulets are.

Elementalists do not want Cleric back, be forced to play bunker again and be told that it’s “balanced”. What elementalists want is for Karl and his team to rebalance the elementalists skills and traits to bring back the build variety the class once had.

Ok for Cleric but Cele stop right there…..

The problem of Cele the classes that does not need Cele using it, Engi (tankiest crap we have at the moment with full offensive Amuklets), Reaper (nightmare with a combination of Power/Condi/Sustain), Ranger(Too much sustain and damage),… but Ele in its current design is made to function with Cele.

I have no problem that Ele get a functioning pure burst/DPS spec (not S/X that clearly does not work), I am not against complete redo of Ele (but I am afraid what will come out with current level of incompetence, a class that nothing to do with the one I main-ed for the last 4 years….) Ele should stop pigeon-ed to one single build, this is not Guild War 2 I started playing 4 years ago, #nochoicematrixexist.

Varezenem.2813:

Clerics is unlikely to be OP on tempests by now. What we lose are all non-meta support/bunkers that relied on it.

Can they not use Mender’s?…

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Did you even read my post? I just said grouch wasn’t to blame because he’s in marketing for the company, I also never said that we should not hold people accountable, just not grouch in this situation. If you’re going to play the blame game direct your nonsense at someone that’s actually responsible.

Countless

I think you misunderstood me.

I am not Blaming Grouch (I never said his name BTW), not Blaming anyone.

The one who made the blaming game here, is the one who said the balanced team didn’t balanced the Tempest properly.

From what I read on patch notes, the massives nerf to ele seems suffisant. Removing the cleric amulet was not to Balance the Tempest.

From the WORDs of Grouch:

“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

You don’t like the Truth? I am not the messenger (Grouch) nor a member of Anet. So I am powerless, much more than those (who did choose) that chose to remove the support archetype in the game.

I don’t care if the DEV team is BLACK, YELLOW or PINK.

I do care about support being able to do their work with VIABLE Archetype in META.

Paladin tempest / guard / whatever can’t heat the cleave of 1 dps. How to rez if 1 dps cleave, while 1 support rez and the cleave win all the time?

So, please keep your “blaming” game for yourself.

I’m just going to quote this line that you said earlier

“In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.”

You ever heard of a job title? Apparently not otherwise I wouldn’t have to baby you through losing this argument, so allow me to elaborate.

A job title is a term that describes in a few words or less the position held by an employee. Depending on the job, a job title can describe the level of the position or the responsibilities of the person holding the position.

So now that you know the meaning of the word since you clearly didn’t before, It means that Grouch is in marketing. Marketing does not dabble in balance decisions, they can only give them ideas if they so choose like anyone else but not have the final say so on balance decisions. And before you say for the 2nd time that you didn’t say grouch in specific but you implied it, which is essentially the same thing.

Should the people responsible for the terrible balance own up to their mistakes? Sure, but have we seen that once since gw2 was released? Not that I’ve seen so it’s foolish to see or expect that to happen now.

Also for you to be quoting the pvp team is meaningless, because in the grand scheme of things they don’t have any balance power, just the power to remove/add amulets and rune sets, everything else is just ideas thrown at the overall balance team in which again, they have the final say.

So if you fail to grasp any of that, then there really isn’t any hope for you. In the end you’re just trying to find an outlet for your frustration which led you unfortunately to me, which in your case is never a good thing because unlike you, I actually understand that shooting the messenger isn’t productive, while you want to get out the pitchforks without thinking things through.

Countless

LOL i find everyone comments funny.

The title says it all. Anet cant fix it by brining back cele or clerics because PvP has been pretty broken since HOT came out.

Arguing over whos fault it is, im all for but its the big bosses jobs to make those. Honestly if anyone has worked for a billion dollar company or a company that makes 5+ million a year know that there is 1 big boss who makes a few decisions and then he puts people in charge of certain areas to be in charge of those. In this case i dont know who but the people who made the new HOT specs, the people who have readjusted traits and cd on stuff, and control of the classes in which direction they want the game to go are at fault of the PvP and WvW scene dying. Its just not one group or one person.

I mean they are coming out with another expansion, i for one will show my displeasure by not buying it. Core GW2 was amazing and many of my guild mates would agree but HOT is frustrating to the many on so many different levels. These balance issues are not only effecting PvP.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Thanks for the response.

Honestly, lots of players are looking for major profession improvements, better roles to play, more viable skills to increase build diversity, condi reworks, stealth reworks… not really amulet removals to see how things work out. Also, I think players would like to determine the direction of gameplay through improved and new profession skills and builds, not to have periods of forced meta.

I played city of heroes for a very long time, and prior to update issue 13 updates to pvp mechanics (that were well intentioned, but mostly had the unfortunate negative side effect of killing build diversity), there were more viable roles and builds to play. Players and teams were more creative and varied, but that was killed off by the devs basically pushing gameplay in a certain direction.

Y’all have some great elements to professions and combat, but I feel it would be best to eventually give us professions v2.0 and combat systems that have evolved.

Please don’t shove players in a box anymore, give them the tools to build their own boxes and counter boxes and balance as we go. There are a lot of cool things you can do with profession to boost pvp and wvw participation and interest, and that starts with improving the characters we play and making pvp combat more “fun”, not off putting and frustrating.

Cecilia.5179:

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Jourdelune.7456:

Trigr.6481:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

-Grouch

Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.

Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.

Countless

I am sorry Countless but you got the smoked screen.

In negotiation or politics, the tactics to say “We are not responsible” really means, we are responsible for being powerless.

And they are not powerless.

They did removed Cleric without giving alternative to the support playstyle.

Support need a way to beat some cleave to REZ and stomp properly.

Now… to make some PR damage mitigation, they say they are not responsible… but they ARE.

They removed an amulet that was for 4 years important for a class archetype of our game mode. The support bunker. They did this without giving a Templar rune or something with less toughness on it.

The worse is Cleric Amulet is just fine, since Tempest got nerfed across the board, it could be correct to let Cleric live.

Here is the key word of the Powerful PVP team:
“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

Well.. a notch would had been to give us a 4 stats amulet with toughness and healing power with perhaps less damage.

But no…. it’s not a notch. The PVP team clearly want to delete ROCK.

Mender is bad. People like how it feels, but when META will settle… no one will play squishie support over squishie dps or bruisers condies.

tl;dr – The not responsible is a smoked screen that means they are powerless.

They are responsible for the removal of the amulet. The nerf on Tempest were enough.

Removing the amulet without giving another one to take down support a notch, is removing support as a whole on the meta.

Did you even read my post? I just said grouch wasn’t to blame because he’s in marketing for the company, I also never said that we should not hold people accountable, just not grouch in this situation. If you’re going to play the blame game direct your nonsense at someone that’s actually responsible.

Countless

I think you misunderstood me.

I am not Blaming Grouch (I never said his name BTW), not Blaming anyone.

The one who made the blaming game here, is the one who said the balanced team didn’t balanced the Tempest properly.

From what I read on patch notes, the massives nerf to ele seems suffisant. Removing the cleric amulet was not to Balance the Tempest.

From the WORDs of Grouch:

“For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.”

You don’t like the Truth? I am not the messenger (Grouch) nor a member of Anet. So I am powerless, much more than those (who did choose) that chose to remove the support archetype in the game.

I don’t care if the DEV team is BLACK, YELLOW or PINK.

I do care about support being able to do their work with VIABLE Archetype in META.

Paladin tempest / guard / whatever can’t heat the cleave of 1 dps. How to rez if 1 dps cleave, while 1 support rez and the cleave win all the time?

So, please keep your “blaming” game for yourself.

Tempest is the support Specialization. Taking support away from Tempest leaves it gutted. The problem isn’t that they nerfed Tempest. The problem is that they nerfed Tempest AND they didn’t add a new playstyle for ele. Like you said, support builds are struggling to do their jobs now. The only thing Tempest has other than support is sub-par fresh air burst specs. If massively nerfing professions is needed to be “sufficient,” they should have at least sufficiently compensated Eles elsewhere. The way balance is being handled just makes people angry and not want to play.

I did put bold on something here.

The problem is two-fold:

1- Tempest don’t have alternative without Cleric amulet.
2- All support builds got problem doing their job.

Actually, Removing the Cleric amulet is more damaging to the whole balanced of Archetype of PVP than it is to Tempest.

But the main OP POST is saying removing amulet will not solve the problem.

What should be done is:

1- balancing all skills scaling with stats for spvp. ALL skills.
2- remove all amulet and let players chose their stats.

This would open class diversities all around. Make sure the game is balanced for sPVP. All the skill traits scaling would be balanced for either be Power DPS or Condi or Support/bunker.

Why we don’t have this??? They introduce some split to spvp, 4 skills. Right.

It’s because the PVP team are not “developper”, they are forum moderator, community manager and marketing guy “with no power”.

In most company in the IT industries, IT don’t hold power, Sales department do.

In most gaming company, the old devs hold power, while the Sales are young people without “dev” talent/knowledge/education that are powerless.

And so, all they can do, is writing message to “sway public opinion” to mitigate the most damage of their “gaming population reputation” while not being able to correct the problem.

This need to go UP, directly on the CEO table… but for some reason, it’s not happening.

SPVP need his own balanced team.

But even… they chose to kill SUPPORT, so the game would be win by the team that rotate faster.

Kyon.9735:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

At this point PvP means nothing to me & will continue to mean nothing to me until balance is shown some proper TLC…

You won’t be seeing me back in the PvP scene due to the obvious neglect and uncaring nature anet has shown PvP…

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

If you look at the patch notes. Tempest ELE got balanced for all game mode. Removing Cleric was not need. They did it with the last opportunities they had, because most people where crying about tempest sustaining.

But with the nerf of Tempest, Cleric would had been fine. And so the “opportunity” to remove the amulet, would had been void.

Balancing around amulet, sigil and runes is not balancing the game at all.

Sarrs.4831:

Varezenem.2813:

Clerics is unlikely to be OP on tempests by now. What we lose are all non-meta support/bunkers that relied on it.

Can they not use Mender’s?…

Vitality has a poor synergy with healing power. All alternate builds were barely able to compete. Common example is bunker guard and Support rev.

Jourdelune.7456:

Kyon.9735:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

At this point PvP means nothing to me & will continue to mean nothing to me until balance is shown some proper TLC…

You won’t be seeing me back in the PvP scene due to the obvious neglect and uncaring nature anet has shown PvP…

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

If you look at the patch notes. Tempest ELE got balanced for all game mode. Removing Cleric was not need. They did it with the last opportunities they had, because most people where crying about tempest sustaining.

But with the nerf of Tempest, Cleric would had been fine. And so the “opportunity” to remove the amulet, would had been void.

Balancing around amulet, sigil and runes is not balancing the game at all.

Well, this is how I see it. Removing Cleric Amulet is fine (for tempests only. They literally killed non-tempest cleric amulet builds like druid and guardian) but they should have not nerfed the healing. Their aim is to make the game something more high risk high reward so a full glass healer tempest who can’t sustain himself but heals his allies to no end is more logical if we look at that scenario.

The problem here is that following the nerf to Tempest Healing, is their Healing Output even enough to justify taking in a Healer Tempest? Their aura heals are easily made useless by simple auto attacks and they can barely keep themselves alive against decent players. Logically speaking, it would be better to just take in another class.

But then again, I’m pretty sure that more than half of the player base will choose to ignore that glass healer Tempest and will just rain down QQs regarding support Tempests which is a L2P issue.

In short, the problem lies with the Tempest’s class design followed by the player base who chooses to complain instead of learning how to play the game. Its design is completely flawed and not fit for their plans and for the majority of the low IQ player base.

Even with my statement above, I don’t support making glass healers because it will have L2P issues in solo queues wherein most players don’t know how to prioritize targets.

To be completely honest, I would blame everything to the Profession Balance team. The class is so broken that it has to rely on specific amulets to be viable and that is the very definition of bad balancing.

…to the greatest troll this forum has ever seen

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Nomad-in-pvp/first

How very fitting at this stage in the game`s history…

Kyon.9735:

Jourdelune.7456:

Kyon.9735:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

At this point PvP means nothing to me & will continue to mean nothing to me until balance is shown some proper TLC…

You won’t be seeing me back in the PvP scene due to the obvious neglect and uncaring nature anet has shown PvP…

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

If you look at the patch notes. Tempest ELE got balanced for all game mode. Removing Cleric was not need. They did it with the last opportunities they had, because most people where crying about tempest sustaining.

But with the nerf of Tempest, Cleric would had been fine. And so the “opportunity” to remove the amulet, would had been void.

Balancing around amulet, sigil and runes is not balancing the game at all.

Well, this is how I see it. Removing Cleric Amulet is fine (for tempests only. They literally killed non-tempest cleric amulet builds like druid and guardian) but they should have not nerfed the healing. Their aim is to make the game something more high risk high reward so a full glass healer tempest who can’t sustain himself but heals his allies to no end is more logical if we look at that scenario.

The problem here is that following the nerf to Tempest Healing, is their Healing Output even enough to justify taking in a Healer Tempest? Their aura heals are easily made useless by simple auto attacks and they can barely keep themselves alive against decent players. Logically speaking, it would be better to just take in another class.

But then again, I’m pretty sure that more than half of the player base will choose to ignore that glass healer Tempest and will just rain down QQs regarding support Tempests which is a L2P issue.

In short, the problem lies with the Tempest’s class design followed by the player base who chooses to complain instead of learning how to play the game. Its design is completely flawed and not fit for their plans and for the majority of the low IQ player base.

Even with my statement above, I don’t support making glass healers because it will have L2P issues in solo queues wherein most players don’t know how to prioritize targets.

To be completely honest, I would blame everything to the Profession Balance team. The class is so broken that it has to rely on specific amulets to be viable and that is the very definition of bad balancing.

I agree with you.

The problem is two fold:

1- Tempest need some rework to get 3 different viable role. (where most classes got 1)
2- Removing amulet for all classes will not solve the unbalanced of the game.

Solutions:

1- Rework all skills and traits with scaling on attribute for spvp. Remove amulet, let players choose their stats. (best long term strat)
2- Remove OP amulet for class or build only for that class/build. (easy for pvp team with some code made by Evan)

Removing amulet for ALL classes/build without VIABLE alternative is a MOVE that is alienating your player base, making it shrink and not grow.

Josh Davis.6015:

For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

Exactly when has this actually worked or made gw2 pvp any better?.

Combat needs to slow down, A LOT, more skill and less button bashing, this is not Street Fighter. You are confusing the overall combat speed with the damage vs healing/support differential.

Kyon.9735:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

-blah blah blah

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

The only thing you can salvage from a steaming pile of crap is other slightly less digested crap…

Certain things obviously don’t belong in PvP such as durability runes and the like but there are many traits that obviously don’t belong there either in their current form…

To be completely honest the game should be balanced around WvW & PvP and you can adjust boss hp & mechanics to fit those numbers. The only reason to have skills doing massive damage is to deal with bosses with massive hp. The only reason to have massive tanking ability is deal with bosses with extreme damage.

Lower PvE numbers & you can lower PvP numbers. Base fights around class mechanics that work for PvP because that CAN work in PvE. Do not base PvP around class mechanics that work for PvE because that does not work.

Allison The Strange.4519:

Kyon.9735:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Josh Davis.6015:

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

If your team has no direct impact on skill balance then we don’t need you or it, especially if your team is going to be removing things from PvP…

The whole point of having a dedicated PvP team should be to balance it & your failing beyond miserably at it… You’ve failed so hard you have driven away many players that have either left the game entirely or just the game mode never to be seen again…

-blah blah blah

Aren’t they more like trying to salvage whatever that PvE Profession balance Team has broken for PvP?

If anything, you should be happy that decided to remove Durability Runes and not add broken stuff like Perplexity and Dire. If you look at that perspective, you’d see they’re somewhat actually trying within the limits of their power.

The only thing you can salvage from a steaming pile of crap is other slightly less digested crap…

Certain things obviously don’t belong in PvP such as durability runes and the like but there are many traits that obviously don’t belong there either in their current form…

To be completely honest the game should be balanced around WvW & PvP and you can adjust boss hp & mechanics to fit those numbers. The only reason to have skills doing massive damage is to deal with bosses with massive hp. The only reason to have massive tanking ability is deal with bosses with extreme damage.

Lower PvE numbers & you can lower PvP numbers. Base fights around class mechanics that work for PvP because that CAN work in PvE. Do not base PvP around class mechanics that work for PvE because that does not work.

I and a few others have said this as well and i still dont understand why anet isnt using PvP as the model to structure there game a around.

If they said hey we want eles to use shouts(support/healers) cantrips (dps) and conjure weapons as a all around build. You can adjust PvE bosses health and damage. Not to mention raids will have more build options.

Like they recently changed fractals but everyone still uses zerk gear. Im using zerk rev, my guild mate has full maruder thief and we just did level 4 fractals. I have less then needed AR and it was still pretty easy.

This is where the true problem is at. Anet is struggling to throw out balanced PvE situations so they need to change things so they balance for PvE yet nothing truly changes.

They fix PvE like they fix PvP. In PvP they remove amulets and runes. In PvE they changed life bars and add more mobs. Anet feels 6 month quota change is good for game then changes it 6 months later to give players that new build feeling.

PvE shouldn’t be touched for the sake of PvP because its state is a lot better than PvP and there’s no point in destroying it for another game mode. As others have suggested already, Anet should hand over PvP balancing to the PvP team and that means they should be balanced separately.

Still, I find it funny when I see some random people in the game QQing about how PvE has become broken because for them, Anet supposedly balances around PvP which is actually the opposite.

Kyon.9735:

PvE shouldn’t be touched for the sake of PvP because its state is a lot better than PvP and there’s no point in destroying it for another game mode. As others have suggested already, Anet should hand over PvP balancing to the PvP team and that means they should be balanced separately.

Still, I find it funny when I see some random people in the game QQing about how PvE has become broken because for them, Anet supposedly balances around PvP which is actually the opposite.

They do both. Nerf to elementalists were because they were over performing in PvE and in PvP. Just in different roles.

It’s pretty obvious what should be done.
-Add a amulet for every possible stat combination.
-Properly balance profession skills.

It’s pretty obvious what will happen.
-ANET will continue to ignore obvious top meta professions that are overpowered because they’re popular.
-ANET will continue to ignore obvious bottom tier professions that are underpowered because they’re unpopular.

UnitedChaos.8364:

It’s pretty obvious what should be done.
-Add a amulet for every possible stat combination.
-Properly balance profession skills.

It’s pretty obvious what will happen.
-ANET will continue to ignore obvious top meta professions that are overpowered because they’re popular.
-ANET will continue to ignore obvious bottom tier professions that are underpowered because they’re unpopular.

Why it’s obvious?

They did nerf Tempest Ele META, so your first point is not working.

They did buff guardian shield/mace/sword that were unpopular.

All this in the last patch.

Duh… What I am doing right now. Hard to lose old habits I guess.

Do you guys think something is being done at Anet to fix this situation or that we’ll have to ditch the class for another 6 months?

Xillllix.3485:

Do you guys think something is being done at Anet to fix this situation or that we’ll have to ditch the class for another 6 months?

Who knows, class balance team don’t say a thing about this, don’t care about ele class subforum…they might do something or not. If i have to bet on something I think they are waiting for builds that appear at word’s qualifiers.

Xillllix.3485:

Do you guys think something is being done at Anet to fix this situation or that we’ll have to ditch the class for another 6 months?

The easiest path would be to crafted another tanky amulet that is less powerful than the Cleric one but more suit to the Ele playstyle.

A full skill rework for ele could only be done when they know what is working and not into pvp.

Scepter/Dagger build was something with Valk ammy in 2013, got nerfed and wait 1 year before dd ele got buffed. 1 year without meta build.

So, it could be longer than 6 months.

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

kdaddy.5431:

LOL i find everyone comments funny.

The title says it all. Anet cant fix it by brining back cele or clerics because PvP has been pretty broken since HOT came out.

Arguing over whos fault it is, im all for but its the big bosses jobs to make those. Honestly if anyone has worked for a billion dollar company or a company that makes 5+ million a year know that there is 1 big boss who makes a few decisions and then he puts people in charge of certain areas to be in charge of those. In this case i dont know who but the people who made the new HOT specs, the people who have readjusted traits and cd on stuff, and control of the classes in which direction they want the game to go are at fault of the PvP and WvW scene dying. Its just not one group or one person.

I mean they are coming out with another expansion, i for one will show my displeasure by not buying it. Core GW2 was amazing and many of my guild mates would agree but HOT is frustrating to the many on so many different levels. These balance issues are not only effecting PvP.

In this case, though, bringing back clerics is a short-term fix. That is, rewind what you’ve just broken. It would fix a crack, but not solve anything else.

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.

You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.

ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.

You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.

ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.