Guild Wars 2

forum bug ftw (when will it get fixed btw?)

Cynz.9437:

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Stealth is best defensive mechanic in the game currently and needs reveal to be countered. Simple solution is add casting animation to reveal skills so you can dodge it, if you cant, you suffer.

Drennon.7190:

As is the fate of all thief, rogue, ninja classes, the masses will cry until they are nerfed into the ground. I don’t know why I thought this game would be different.

No game brought the archetype this low. They should rename the class “runner” there is great roleplay potential.

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Stealth is best defensive mechanic in the game currently and needs reveal to be countered. Simple solution is add casting animation to reveal skills so you can dodge it, if you cant, you suffer.

Don’t make me laugh the last ones are all instant,1 random and more to come. Trolling the trolls.

Sagat.3285:

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Stealth is best defensive mechanic in the game currently and needs reveal to be countered. Simple solution is add casting animation to reveal skills so you can dodge it, if you cant, you suffer.

Don’t make me laugh the last ones are all instant,1 random and more to come. Trolling the trolls.

I know reveals are instant, but BALANCED SOLUTION is to make these skills dodgeable = there is your counterplay to reveal.

A lot of what’s discussed here is very silly, but I agree with the general sentiment that the new stealth reveal skills are too much.

Stealth IS a Thief profession mechanic in the sense that without our powerful stealth attack we’re at a natural disadvantage. It also invalidate Shadow Art which is for the current build the only way of getting decent condition cleanse.
It’s also core to any dagger build to be able to enter stealth often with how Backstab damage has been adjusted over the years. ( crit for 5 / 6k in pvp these days which is reasonable )

Those reveal skills need to have telegraph with a cast time if they stay non targeted. Or WAY longer cooldown.
20sec with a chance to have it free from kinetic Battery, for an instant cast 900 range 6sec reveal is bonkers.

Drennon.7190:

Shaogin.2679:

Drennon.7190:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

You already can lock a necromancer out of death shroud. Its called Moa.

Good point! Give Moa to 2 more classes to make it even.

Give Moa to 3 more classes to be fair. Make it 900 range AoE with 20 sec cd. Moa would last 4/6 seconds. I think I’ve heard already of a similar skill out there. HoT is gonna be too cool and nice!

EDIT: Reveal skills will not only hit badly the only current decent, far from being OP, and only viable spec thief have in the current meta that is D/P, but will destroy also the sub par D/D thief, that has never saw the light since 3 years ago in any pvp team or environment but some sporadic wvw roamer nostalgic that still remember the old good days when revealed was non existent. Was at that point that the thief hate started on the forum.

Kolly.9872:

Drennon.7190:

Shaogin.2679:

Drennon.7190:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

You already can lock a necromancer out of death shroud. Its called Moa.

Good point! Give Moa to 2 more classes to make it even.

Give Moa to 3 more classes to be fair. Make it 900 range AoE with 20 sec cd. Moa would last 4/6 seconds. I think I’ve heard already of a similar skill out there. HoT is gonna be too cool and nice!

EDIT: Reveal skills will not only hit badly the only current decent, far from being OP, and only viable spec thief have in the current meta that is D/P, but will destroy also the sub par D/D thief, that has never saw the light since 3 years ago in any pvp team or environment but some sporadic wvw roamer nostalgic that still remember the old good days when revealed was non existent. Was at that point that the thief hate started on the forum.

Comparing moa form and reveal is one of the worst argument i have seen for while. Reveal dont lock your utilities and weapon skills, it just stop your camping in stealth for 6 seconds. While you are revealed, spam blind, shadowstep away etc. Lets give other classes so easy access to stealth and such powerful traitline around it with lack of counterplay without reveal

Babylon.8972:

Kolly.9872:

Drennon.7190:

Shaogin.2679:

Drennon.7190:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

You already can lock a necromancer out of death shroud. Its called Moa.

Good point! Give Moa to 2 more classes to make it even.

Give Moa to 3 more classes to be fair. Make it 900 range AoE with 20 sec cd. Moa would last 4/6 seconds. I think I’ve heard already of a similar skill out there. HoT is gonna be too cool and nice!

EDIT: Reveal skills will not only hit badly the only current decent, far from being OP, and only viable spec thief have in the current meta that is D/P, but will destroy also the sub par D/D thief, that has never saw the light since 3 years ago in any pvp team or environment but some sporadic wvw roamer nostalgic that still remember the old good days when revealed was non existent. Was at that point that the thief hate started on the forum.

Lets give other classes so easy access to stealth and such powerful traitline around it with lack of counterplay without reveal

Here are you talking about mesmer right? Cos in the current state it’s thief that lacks counter play against others, not viceversa.
Then show me how to perma blind an engie or shadowstep away (50 sec cd) than come back and being revealed again with an AoE 900 range spell (20 sec cd).
Not talking about double dagger thieves that will be hit even harder but they are still non existent in pvp so who cares right?
Sure we got our new awsome specialization now that HoT comes, with an awsome new weapon that has an awsome knockback from stealth with 0 dmg, even if it doesn’t have any field for combo and even any stealth skill.
Well thieves probably will play Daredevil (the new acrobatic 2.0) anyway with evasion and 0 stealth till the next balance patch.
Why give thief more than one viable spec per patch right?

Babylon.8972:

Sagat.3285:

Babylon.8972:

Cynz.9437:

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Stealth is best defensive mechanic in the game currently and needs reveal to be countered. Simple solution is add casting animation to reveal skills so you can dodge it, if you cant, you suffer.

Don’t make me laugh the last ones are all instant,1 random and more to come. Trolling the trolls.

I know reveals are instant, but BALANCED SOLUTION is to make these skills dodgeable = there is your counterplay to reveal.

The problem with that is you’d need to blow a dodge on yet another thing. Dodges aren’t unlimited when you account for endurance. With the need to dodge reveals you’d be vulnerable to attacks that need dodging as well.

Reveal shouldn’t even be in the game, if I wanted to be seen at certain moments I wouldn’t be stealthing then.

Babylon.8972:

Reveal dont lock your utilities and weapon skills, it just stop your camping in stealth for 6 seconds. While you are revealed, spam blind, shadowstep away etc.

No, it just makes many Thief utilities worthless, and they go on long cooldowns if used. It also locks the meta Thief out of its most powerful attack. It also removes any sustain that the arguably squishiest profession in the game has.

You are also implying that Thieves camp around in stealth for long periods of time for fun. They don’t. If they sit around in stealth, it’s to avoid taking damage or to recover from grave conditions.

You are also assuming that the would-be-stealthing Thief has other means of delaying death at that moment. Blinding requires initiative or a one-use utility, and only lasts one hit, not 6 seconds. Did you stop to think that that may be why the Thief was trying to stealth in the first place? Because they are out of initiative? It’s not like they can just switch weapons and refill their initiative pool.

If you want to be able to knock a Thief out of stealth, that’s one thing. But to remove its ability to stealth for several seconds at a time, that’s completely overboard. It’s the devs that caused the Thief to be so reliant on stealth, not the players. And it’s the devs that are making it worse.

It’s as though they got the Thief gravely addicted to a drug. Then, not only are they taking away the drug, causing a painful withdrawal, but they decided to take away the Thief’s food also.

meow one twenty.4376:

Since there are ways to make skills unblockable, we should also have ways of knocking people out of Evades, right?

We do actually have a few of those methods already in the game. Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Static Field, Unsteady Ground, and Spectral Wall will all interrupt through evasion (and interrupt the evasion itself).

stealth is a great mechanic and I’m happy when I see people use it in a good way.

PU mesmer and SA thief for the other part are kittened, both can make a lot of mistakes and still be alive because they have infinite stealth also mesmers are doing enough dmg to hit you for 85% of your hp in one single burst and thieves getting 20% stealth res bot trait, yeah stealth needs a kitten nerf.

I don’t know if anet think that adding instant reveal skills is good, but it’s a step.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

Since there are ways to make skills unblockable, we should also have ways of knocking people out of Evades, right?

We do actually have a few of those methods already in the game. Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Static Field, Unsteady Ground, and Spectral Wall will all interrupt through evasion (and interrupt the evasion itself).

I’ll concede after I ask my question and I mean it sincerely, do those work against Mesmer Sword 2 and Thief S/D 3 or only when you dodge into them? Ive never seen it happen so I honestly dont know.

meow one twenty.4376:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

Since there are ways to make skills unblockable, we should also have ways of knocking people out of Evades, right?

We do actually have a few of those methods already in the game. Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Static Field, Unsteady Ground, and Spectral Wall will all interrupt through evasion (and interrupt the evasion itself).

I’ll concede after I ask my question and I mean it sincerely, do those work against Mesmer Sword 2 and Thief S/D 3 or only when you dodge into them? Ive never seen it happen so I honestly dont know.

I know it works when you move through them, but I think it will interrupt if the skill is placed right on them. I haven’t tested this, though.

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

-The only venom that competitive thieves run is basilisk.
-If a thief is in Shadow Refuge, its because they’re trying to recover, don’t let them sit there and do it. Place your aoes on the ring, use your wolf’s fear, etc..

-Is there a debuff that stops your class from clearing condis, using your burst, or regenerating health? No? Welcome to reveal for thief.

That one minute cooldown SR that you dropped to rez a teammate? Don’t worry, engi can pop a 900 unit aoe reveal on a 30 second cooldown.

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

I’m not going to say L2P, but the fact is that you’re relatively new to the game. It’s not your fault, everyone at the beginning struggled vs stealth, cos it’s the less intuitive mechanic in the game, but in few weeks of practice you will understand how to deal with it. Of course if you spend your time playing the game instead of making incorrect statements on this forum.
You will understand where now you’re wrong, trust me.

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

-The only venom that competitive thieves run is basilisk.
-If a thief is in Shadow Refuge, its because they’re trying to recover, don’t let them sit there and do it. Place your aoes on the ring, use your wolf’s fear, etc..

-Is there a debuff that stops your class from clearing condis, using your burst, or regenerating health? No? Welcome to reveal for thief.

That one minute cooldown SR that you dropped to rez a teammate? Don’t worry, engi can pop a 900 unit aoe reveal on a 30 second cooldown.

-with sb and axe/torch my only aoes are player based and running into the shadow refuge is usually a bad idea,

-i have MINIMAL control over my pets, how do i get my wolf in there ? i cant tell him where to move and the animation is like 2 seconds long, so hard to avoid.

- your shadow refuge has a 60 sec cd? ok pistol 5 and dagger 2? dagger 5? the stealth heal? shortbow 5 has a blink with 0 cd easy for escaping, the blind wall and dagger 2? steal has a stealth im pretty sure (working off the top of my head). that is all without actually opening up the game and reading through traits and all utilities. see an engi aoe reveal? retreat and come back just after?

Drennon.7190:

That one minute cooldown SR that you dropped to rez a teammate? Don’t worry, engi can pop a 900 unit aoe reveal on a 30 second cooldown.

Seriously! Doesn’t Engie have enough anti-Thief abilities already?

LordMazdamundi.2147:

-with sb and axe/torch my only aoes are player based and running into the shadow refuge is usually a bad idea,

-i have MINIMAL control over my pets, how do i get my wolf in there ? i cant tell him where to move and the animation is like 2 seconds long, so hard to avoid.

- your shadow refuge has a 60 sec cd? ok pistol 5 and dagger 2? dagger 5? the stealth heal? shortbow 5 has a blink with 0 cd easy for escaping, the blind wall and dagger 2? steal has a stealth im pretty sure (working off the top of my head). that is all without actually opening up the game and reading through traits and all utilities. see an engi aoe reveal? retreat and come back just after?

I dont know why you have this fear of standing on a shadow refuge. The counter play to shadow refuge is to literally stand on top of it and cleave.

Wolf f2 has a large area of effect and is easy to use on SR. Simply stand on it and press f2… not hard.

You seem to also have some disillusion that thieves and in infinite pool of initiative. hint they don’t.

Before you assume that I don’t know how to ranger and assume that I only play thief, I will tell you that I multi class everything. Ranger is probably my third most played, with a little over 500 matches. 500 isn’t alot, but it’s enough to know how to easy fight thieves.

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

-The only venom that competitive thieves run is basilisk.
-If a thief is in Shadow Refuge, its because they’re trying to recover, don’t let them sit there and do it. Place your aoes on the ring, use your wolf’s fear, etc..

-Is there a debuff that stops your class from clearing condis, using your burst, or regenerating health? No? Welcome to reveal for thief.

That one minute cooldown SR that you dropped to rez a teammate? Don’t worry, engi can pop a 900 unit aoe reveal on a 30 second cooldown.

-with sb and axe/torch my only aoes are player based and running into the shadow refuge is usually a bad idea,

-i have MINIMAL control over my pets, how do i get my wolf in there ? i cant tell him where to move and the animation is like 2 seconds long, so hard to avoid.

- your shadow refuge has a 60 sec cd? ok pistol 5 and dagger 2? dagger 5? the stealth heal? shortbow 5 has a blink with 0 cd easy for escaping, the blind wall and dagger 2? steal has a stealth im pretty sure (working off the top of my head). that is all without actually opening up the game and reading through traits and all utilities. see an engi aoe reveal? retreat and come back just after?

retreat and NEVER come back considered that AoE reveal is on a 20 sec cd, people seem to forget this particular. Thieves already avoided engies before cos the match up was realy unbalanced, then A-Net decided engies needed even more stuffs to deal with thieves.
If devs realy want the thief to be only good at mobility and at creating +1 situations, remove stealth at all from the class and give us even more speed and shadowsteps. At least we can avoid better every team fight or 1v1 and enjoy capping only empty nodes.

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

Drennon.7190:

LordMazdamundi.2147:

I’m sorry but stealth is kitten strong and there needs to be options to fight it. it’s so frustrating to fight a thief or mesmer and have a really close fight just for them to invis away and me sit around picking my nose waiting to get one shot. it lets you get uninterrupted stomps and rezzes and is kitten strong. now that there are SOME reveals to counter play so you don’t auto win or escape every fight you’re getting upset? play around them and try to bait the reveals out maybe? you make it sound like the reveals are permanent.

You sound like you have no experience playing thief. One shot? Autowin? Yeah, you don’t play thief. But please, prove me wrong and screenshot your pvp stat screen including games played on thief.

I should’ve been clearer, but after a close fight the thief or mesmer can stealth away from any unfavourable situation and either run and EASILY escape or reset the fight often coming back in a far healthier state and finishing off the mess they started. I dont bring sic em on my ranger. and even with carrion runes i find myself burst down in seconds. I’m not saying I’m good at pvp. I’m very new to it. but i have no answers or ability to deal with that, my pets wont follow, i wont chase you into a shadow refuge to drop a trap as ill just die in that. so instead i wait, try to heal up then eat a 4 venom backstab and basically die. now you can (and probably will) say L2P!
But the fact remains that stealth is VERY powerful and a very small amount of abilities (one per class) deal with it, and taking those skills often means gimping yourself against non stealth players. so maybe you should learn to play around these reveals just as much as i need to learn how best to deal with stealth itself?

-The only venom that competitive thieves run is basilisk.
-If a thief is in Shadow Refuge, its because they’re trying to recover, don’t let them sit there and do it. Place your aoes on the ring, use your wolf’s fear, etc..

-Is there a debuff that stops your class from clearing condis, using your burst, or regenerating health? No? Welcome to reveal for thief.

That one minute cooldown SR that you dropped to rez a teammate? Don’t worry, engi can pop a 900 unit aoe reveal on a 30 second cooldown.

-with sb and axe/torch my only aoes are player based and running into the shadow refuge is usually a bad idea,

-i have MINIMAL control over my pets, how do i get my wolf in there ? i cant tell him where to move and the animation is like 2 seconds long, so hard to avoid.

- your shadow refuge has a 60 sec cd? ok pistol 5 and dagger 2? dagger 5? the stealth heal? shortbow 5 has a blink with 0 cd easy for escaping, the blind wall and dagger 2? steal has a stealth im pretty sure (working off the top of my head). that is all without actually opening up the game and reading through traits and all utilities. see an engi aoe reveal? retreat and come back just after?

First, you are newer player and stealth is still effective against those, because they lack experience about how to play with and against thieves. Generally playing thief can provide you a much easier time afterwards.
Now SB and axe/torch – torch has a good firefield on number 5 which covers the complete refuge and you can use that skill were you trow 5 axes (sry, can´t remember that name right now, splitblade?) and I assume you clapy carrion survival? Then you have entangle, too.
A very imprtant point that distinguish good rangers from bad ones imo is the control about the pet. With beastmaster-line and used correctly you can achieve high damage (crits up to 8k), control (blind, weakness, taunt and maybe fear from wolf), especially the taunt is very powerful, forcing the thief to reveal himself or to get high damage in.
Using you pet for maximum advantage is very important. I can´t count how often the pet, accidently or not, body-blocked my shadowshot
Sometimes thief cast refuge and have still to run inside it, use wolf F2, he will run the last position of the thief and fear him out of the refuge, taunt him for selfreveal, etc. All a matter of practice.

Pistol 5 and dagger 2? The same I decribed the sentence before and you know that you have a daze on you shortbow, which is instant? Interrupt the combo…
Btw if you use Geomancy you can hit the thief even if stealthed as long as you learned how a thief moves. Like is said, a matter of practice and attention.
The stealth heal? Hide in shadows? Its not used much, especially in higher competitive enviroment, because its even easier to interrupt than pistol 5 + dagger 2. Btw what I said about weakness? As a meta carrion survival you can deal out a lot of weakness ad we can´t clear it anymore with a condiremove “shadows embrace”, where we remove condis in stealth (and that still is our best condiremove).
Stealth on steal is another thing, especially because you don´t have to hit the enemy successful with steal, but he is usally near you then, so…

About the thief fighting you or on your assumption an engi which uses reveal and the thief should " retreat and come back just after". For such a retreat to get out of the reach of the engi, “Shadow-step” usually is the only possibility to do so. Mostly you only have initiative for 1 infiltrating arrow (shortbow 5). Normally you shouldn´t fight engis or rangers and definitly not when your shadow-step is on cooldown. Except the engi is low what he shouldn´t be in a 1vs1 against a thief.
50sekittenil thief can come back safely and reveal is ready again. So we stick to +1 fights.

Edit: With “shadow-step” I meant the utility.
I had no idea why “sec” and “until” got a kitten and then I realized it. I will leave it as it is, I like that weird things that appear then.

Now to that thing about shortbow 5 doesn´t has any cd… NEVER say that again. Initiative is another form of cooldown!
Lets say you have 15 initiative (cause of 3 through trickery) and use infiltrators arrow 2-times. You now have 3 Initative in theory. In reality of course you get initiative back while doing that. So around 4-5 initiative. You wait another second and use another infiltrators arrow. Now you have ZERO inititative and basically a cooldown on every weaponskill that use initiative. Pistol 5 + dagger 2? Nope, wait 63=9-1 (cause of ini-regen while casting pistol 5) =around 8sec. If you use initative its like a delayed cd on both weaponsets (cause we don´t have different initiative on weaponswap like new cd´s other classes have).
Thats another reason why we have to retreat, wait, hide, etc, to buy some time and generate new initiative. Its like waiting to get cd´s off.

If you have more questions you are welcome to go to the thief forum and ask them. Most thief- player are a bit sensible rigth now, but normally we try to help.