Guild Wars 2

Hello! I have a fun and interesting idea to jazz up pvp and counterplay. Recently classes and specializations have been receiving an abundance of reveal/stealth removal effects. This is no doubt due to the outcry for counter play to stealth.

It seems that this is something that the dev team wants to move forward with, so I’m not here to ask for a change of mind. Instead, I think we should open up more counter play.

You see, there are a few mechanics in this game that I find annoying and I would rather not play around them. Instead I think we should add some abilities to classes to disable them!

1: Lock : Your target cannot attunement swap or kit swap for 4 seconds.
2: Squat: Your target cannot activate any stances for 4 seconds.
3: lol passives!: Your target cannot benefit from passive stances/immunities for 4 seconds. If a passive stance or immunity is active, it is instantly disabled.

If anyone has anymore neat ideas for counter play, please post them below!

Suggestions

Atherakhia.4086
Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

…..I sense salt. /15 char.

TheLastNobody.8319:

…..I sense salt. /15 char.

It tastes good. ^.^

Add a traitline in Shadow Arts that completely and unconditionally resist revealed (buffing other traits in Shadow Arts because revealed is a new mechanic so there wouldn’t be an overall nerf by taking revealed immunity) or other skills like the +200 power on reveal to ensure players really think hard about wanting to use a reveal skill (e.g., a skill that adds a few stacks of burning and poison upon being revealed).

This would only apply to thieves since engineers and mesmers are powerful enough with conditions and overall group utility a thief lacks.

A reflect immunity or neutralizing chronomancer abilities might be great too.

how many skills/traits will do reveals? i remember the guard trap and new scrapper skill. wat else is going to be oot ther?

Jaxom.7310:

how many skills/traits will do reveals? i remember the guard trap and new scrapper skill. wat else is going to be oot ther?

Rangers: Sick em’
Engis: scrapper / traits
Revenant: Herald
Guadian: Trap

I might be forgetting one.

I don’t think that my request is unreasonable. Since it will has the same end effect as locking a thief out of stealth.

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

“The meta revolves around boons in all 3 modes what do we do sir?”
“Add more reveal you know the routine”

wtb those effects on succesful steal, ty

the class bias from anet reached absurd levels

Drennon.7190:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

You already can lock a necromancer out of death shroud. Its called Moa.

Shaogin.2679:

Drennon.7190:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

See! These are the ideas that this thread needs.

It also got me thinking, what if there was a way to lock necros out of deathshroud? I think this is really interesting counter play!

You already can lock a necromancer out of death shroud. Its called Moa.

Good point! Give Moa to 2 more classes to make it even.

Since there are ways to make skills unblockable, we should also have ways of knocking people out of Evades, right?

I would like a Grandmaster that gives Thieves a 50% reduction on Reveal, but untraited Reveal gets a duration increase. Maybe if you have that fighting with an equally game-changing trait we can get Thieves out of this single purpose position they have. Besides the point maybe, but opinions like to be told.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

Why stop there. Chill should affect necro LF regen, warrior adr, rev energy, and all movement abilities.

Thief can now:
Steal a Necro’s Shroud, making them unable to go into Death/Reaper’s Shroud.
Steal an Engineer’s Toolbelt, making them unable to use Toolbelt skills.
Steal a Thief’s Stolen Item, making them unable to use said item. You gain said Item.
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Note: You cant Steal Virtues, Shatters, Adrenaline, Energy, or Attunements as those are not really “physical”.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Tbh, if Anet goes overboard with reveal effects they could destroy two classes entirely, and with AoE reveals, revealing is going to be brain dead easy.

Hm yes yes, this is an excellent spot for a salt mine. I’ll start drawing up the paperwork.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Gabriell.4856:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Supposedly, rangers deal 20-30% less damage because those stats went to the pets. I don’t actually have any official proof from Anet (maybe someone else does) but it’s just one of those things everyone says is true.

why do thieves think stealth is their profession mechanic?

it’s just a unique buff like super speed. because of the advantages stealth provides in pvp counters beyond AOE spam are needed.

Lady pantsuru, thieves defense is literally just evades, blind spam, and invis. Anet killed evades and if they kill invis thieves will drop out of the meta. Especially considering Revenant will be taking over the mobility role now.

Gabriell.4856:

Atherakhia.4086:

Lets not forget chill should affect initiative regen!

Why stop there. Chill should affect necro LF regen, warrior adr, rev energy, and all movement abilities.

It already affects lifeforce and adrenaline regen. With skills being on cooldown for a longer period of time, you might generate less lifeforce and adrenaline.

Hammerguard.9834:

Tbh, if Anet goes overboard with reveal effects they could destroy two classes entirely, and with AoE reveals, revealing is going to be brain dead easy.

Mesmer would survive and continue to fight thief would equip double SB and play aggro magnet.

How about you request more options for none stealth builds instead? If you have to rely on stealth that much, you deserve to be punished against players that use counters. Learn to play without a mechanic that has no viable counterplay to this day.

bloodpyrope.8630:

Gabriell.4856:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Supposedly, rangers deal 20-30% less damage because those stats went to the pets. I don’t actually have any official proof from Anet (maybe someone else does) but it’s just one of those things everyone says is true.

Not stats directly but skill damages and coefficients are lower to compensate for the pet.

LunarNacht.8913:

How about you request more options for none stealth builds instead? If you have to rely on stealth that much, you deserve to be punished against players that use counters. Learn to play without a mechanic that has no viable counterplay to this day.

We had them
S/P was meta long time ago
S/D was meta a year ago
You know what happened? Riiight…People complained, things got nerfed and now we have D/P SA in PvP… I was happy with S/D acro, D/P crit-strikes and D/P panic strike beacause I wasn´t forced to take SA. Now we are forced to take it because it has our only viable (still nerfed) condi-remove, support and survival. acro is just crap.
WE learned to play without it…But people were even to ignorant to learn that YOu can hit into the aftercast of flanking strike (S/D 3) or SB 3. As a thief I have to land my steal in that kind of secure aftercasts because you absolutly have to land your steal. If you fail one steal its very hard, if you fail 2 or more times you can run away because there isn´t any chance (on equal skill). Of course we normally souldn´t even fight another class head to head
Stealth always had counterplay, the most important one is >Attention<. If you look at your surroundings, how the thief moves, etc, you almost negate his moment of surprise, which is essential. When fighting a thief you can immediatly know if he´s a good or bad one. For example a D/P thief fighting 1vs1 against another D/P thief, it shows even on the ENGAGE if the thief knows his class or not.
Thief is a class were its especially important to have knowledge about another classes in order to fight them.
At the time when P/D condi (perplexity) in wvw was very usual there were so many complaints about P/D condi it crushed my mind. I know its annoying to fight, but dodging C&D and sneak attack is so freaking easy. Its all a matter or learing.

Ele for example are using mosly boons for survival and offense. If you lock them out of them they would be so weak. No might for attacks, not protection for damage, not regen (and condi-remove through it), no fury for more damage, no stab for CC, no speed for mobility. Right now stealth is more or less the same for us, while its not possible to fight as long as an ele. We are running around the map mostly.
Reveal-counters are a very lazy way to counter stealth in order to create an “easymode” for players lacking the intention to improve.
How do you think D/D thieves stealth on stealthed target with C&D? Pure experience.

Btw way in the thief forum hundreds of suggestions were made, even to convert SA into a more rewarding traitline going in and out of stealth, not sitting in it. We make more that the players complaining about stealth.

Taku.6352:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Gabriell.4856:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Supposedly, rangers deal 20-30% less damage because those stats went to the pets. I don’t actually have any official proof from Anet (maybe someone else does) but it’s just one of those things everyone says is true.

Not stats directly but skill damages and coefficients are lower to compensate for the pet.

Well, pets can crit higher than my backstab while taunting, blinding and having difficult to see attack-moves (I see at you birds). I think they are actually great in rewarding player using them accordingly. Sadly the majority use them as meat-shields

LunarNacht.8913:

How about you request more options for none stealth builds instead?

You are talking about prayer requests to God, right? I think He’s the only one around this place that is actually taking requests.

The main problem with being locked out of stealth is that it is the main method to remove conditions, and even it is slow. The issue isn’t necessarily the inability to hide, but it’s that an entire traitline is completely nullified. Dagger/Pistol is based on the ability to stealth in order to gain those benefits. Not to mention that Backstab requires stealth.

If Thieves were still able to gain benefits of Shadow Arts even without stealthing, there probably wouldn’t be too much of an issue. But as it stands, a bad design choice makes Thieves too dependent on at least entering stealth just to stay alive.

Drennon.7190:

Jaxom.7310:

how many skills/traits will do reveals? i remember the guard trap and new scrapper skill. wat else is going to be oot ther?

Rangers: Sick em’
Engis: scrapper / traits
Revenant: Herald
Guadian: Trap

I might be forgetting one.

I don’t think that my request is unreasonable. Since it will has the same end effect as locking a thief out of stealth.

It doesn’t just lock thief out of stealth. It locks every profession. Out of stealth. Other professions have stealth and there is a fair bit of AoE stealth.

Kageseigi.2150:

LunarNacht.8913:

How about you request more options for none stealth builds instead?

You are talking about prayer requests to God, right? I think He’s the only one around this place that is actually taking requests.

The main problem with being locked out of stealth is that it is the main method to remove conditions, and even it is slow. The issue isn’t necessarily the inability to hide, but it’s that an entire traitline is completely nullified. Dagger/Pistol is based on the ability to stealth in order to gain those benefits. Not to mention that Backstab requires stealth.

If Thieves were still able to gain benefits of Shadow Arts even without stealthing, there probably wouldn’t be too much of an issue. But as it stands, a bad design choice makes Thieves too dependent on at least entering stealth just to stay alive.

That’s because stealth is part of the class just like symbols are part of guardian people need to stop ignoring or disagreeing with that. I wouldn’t say it’s bad design it’s what they did with it that’s bad especially catering to any complaints and making questionable adjustments.

I’d also like an effect that stops teleports. Teleports are very powerful, IMHO only second to stealth. Teleports render good positioning useless, make kiting too easy and confer high combat mobility – all in one package.

Taku.6352:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Gabriell.4856:

bloodpyrope.8630:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Thief can now:
Steal a Ranger’s Pet, making them unable to use Pet commands/skills. You must use Steal on the Pet for this to happen.

Ok, but don’t forget, once you steal a pet, you lose 20-30% of your stats and your F skills get replaced by the pet f skills Also when you stealth, your new pet will follow you around and give away your position unless you command it to attack someone.

Pet stays with you until it dies, or someone else steals it!

Hi,

Can you tell me where your magical 20-30% stats went because…everyone get the same stats with the amulet system. Am I right?

Supposedly, rangers deal 20-30% less damage because those stats went to the pets. I don’t actually have any official proof from Anet (maybe someone else does) but it’s just one of those things everyone says is true.

Not stats directly but skill damages and coefficients are lower to compensate for the pet.

I see. So Ranger LB is suppose to be subpar to others oh…wait what??? What is this high damage coef?

Sympathetic Visage: new boon, with the exact same function as it was in GW1 (People hitting you while under the effect lose all adrenaline)
Some skill that removes stances. (Once again similar to skills in GW1.)

And of course i would love to see this implemented:

Penance Stare – If your foe is using a cheesy build, they get petrified for 30s, then blow up violently. Unblockable, unevadable and goes through invulnerability.

coglin.1867:

Drennon.7190:

Jaxom.7310:

how many skills/traits will do reveals? i remember the guard trap and new scrapper skill. wat else is going to be oot ther?

Rangers: Sick em’
Engis: scrapper / traits
Revenant: Herald
Guadian: Trap

I might be forgetting one.

I don’t think that my request is unreasonable. Since it will has the same end effect as locking a thief out of stealth.

It doesn’t just lock thief out of stealth. It locks every profession. Out of stealth. Other professions have stealth and there is a fair bit of AoE stealth.

Other professions with stealth have blocks, invulnerable, and other tools to mitigate damage and conditions. Our main source of damage avoidance/mitigation/condi remove is directly tied to stealth.

They are the ones who introduced Trapper Runes, buffed PU stealth duration, nerfed SA etc if more reveal is coming it’s because they chose to bring more stealth.

Grandmaster: Thorn in the box

When you are revealed, cause 2 seconds of fear to up to 5 nearby enemies (30 sec cd)

Because I can just run engie and not have to worry about being mechanically disadvantaged.

Sincerely idk

Steal: applies paralyzing poison now, prevents player from using specific spells based on class mechanics, e.g. engis can’t switch kits and blocks for duration of the debuff; mes can’t create clones etc.

I’d like to see something that negates or clears all non-boon buffs for a few seconds. It would be nice if abilities like Berserker’s Stance had more counterplay.

ANET made a really bad decision by giving too many classes access to stealth. It should have remained with mesmer and thief only.

style.6173:

ANET made a really bad decision by giving too many classes access to stealth. It should have remained with mesmer and thief only.

Elementalists still need access to stealth!

roamzero.9486:

I’d like to see something that negates or clears all non-boon buffs for a few seconds. It would be nice if abilities like Berserker’s Stance had more counterplay.

It blows my mind that so many people complain about vamp runes, yet no one seems to have a problem with Berserkers stance being on a PASSIVE trait.

Drennon.7190:

roamzero.9486:

I’d like to see something that negates or clears all non-boon buffs for a few seconds. It would be nice if abilities like Berserker’s Stance had more counterplay.

It blows my mind that so many people complain about vamp runes, yet no one seems to have a problem with Berserkers stance being on a PASSIVE trait.

Endure Pain and Balanced Stance are available trough passive traits not Berserkers Stance.

kolompi.1287:

style.6173:

ANET made a really bad decision by giving too many classes access to stealth. It should have remained with mesmer and thief only.

Elementalists still need access to stealth!

Then pray for underwatercombat-comeback in pvp. Elementalists have access to stealth underwater :P

Coronit.9432:

We had them
S/P was meta long time ago
S/D was meta a year ago

I remember that. I enjoyed it. Far more than the guessing game, even tho I win more often than not.

Honestly, we could use a reworked Steal which does exactly what the OP suggests — shut down class mechanics.

Successful steal:

Locks all “F skills” for 4-6 seconds.

Fair is fair, right?

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Cynz.9437:

Sigmoid.7082:

If steal could lock F skills then way to many things would have to be rebalanced with that in mind, including steal itself. So while the idea sound simple enough its pretty unrealistic and impractical to implement.

but it is realistic and balanced and practical to implement multiple skills that completely shut down thieves main offensive and defensive abilities? okkkkk

Precisely my point, hence making the Steal lock suggestion fair and square.

As is the fate of all thief, rogue, ninja classes, the masses will cry until they are nerfed into the ground. I don’t know why I thought this game would be different.