Guild Wars 2

I tried some thief and shadowstep is lol.

It basically makes thief 0 skill. It is impossible to die because whenever you mess up you just shadowstep out.

It is a stun break (basically double stun break)
A 1200 range instant cast teleport
It removes a ton of condis
It is only on a 40s cd of something after the return (lol)

Solutions (one of the following):
1, Make it not a stun break
2, Make it not remove any condis.
3, Reduce the range to 600
4, Increase the cd to 90 seconds
5, Make the cd only start when the return is used and increase the cd to 70 seconds

So skill-less. Impossible to die on thief because of this skill.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior

Nothing surprising.

You can follow them with Flesh wurm and spectral walk which are both on the same or lower cooldowns, or just a ranged weapon. If he really wants to disengage, he could just shortbow 5 or stealth away, anyways, which the class also depends on.

The thief is cornered into Shadowstep because most of its utilities outright suck, and it’s the only 2+ DoT condition cleanse on the entire class, anywhere.

It is an extremely strong utility, but there are so few good ones and the class in such an odd balance state it’s either mandatory or just excellent because it’s better with the rest and there are better alternatives in the rest of the kit.

DeceiverX.8361:

You can follow them with Flesh wurm and spectral walk which are both on the same or lower cooldowns, or just a ranged weapon. If he really wants to disengage, he could just shortbow 5 or stealth away, anyways, which the class also depends on.

The thief is cornered into Shadowstep because most of its utilities outright suck, and it’s the only 2+ DoT condition cleanse on the entire class, anywhere.

It is an extremely strong utility, but there are so few good ones and the class in such an odd balance state it’s either mandatory or just excellent because it’s better with the rest and there are better alternatives in the rest of the kit.

I would swap any utility on any class for shadowstep in a second. It gives you everything in one skill. It is vastly OP compared to every other utility in the game.

There are ways to play around a thief using Shadowstep. I notice you play a necro, Henry. Have you ever tried putting a mark or two down on the return point of the thief’s shadowstep (shadow return)? This means that he has to move even further away to use the return to cure any conditions you have ticking on him, or he will cleanse them just to soak more from your marks.

Also, as a Necro, you have access to flesh wurm, which is a shadowstep and a stun break, which I realize isn’t as good as shadowstep, but I would argue that the mobility it offers to a Necro sort of breaks with the theme of that class, so you should be grateful for it and learn to use it if you think shadowsteps are so broken.

i said i often respect his threads, he posts a huge amount and sometimes there are actually good balance ideas

doesnt mean i think ALL his ideas are great and im all aware that his main focus is on nerfing thief, cause he plays nec

You are seriously misinformed with how this game is balanced. Thief is your counter. You play necro, deal with it. You are meant for team fights (and EASILY the best class in the game for team fights, no arguments ANYWHERE against this premise) and you can win a couple 1v1s here or there but you should try to stay away from them. Thieves kill you quickly and gank you easily because that’s how the class is designed. Shadowstep is essential. 1200 range, 2 stun breaks, 3 condi clears. You also forget a few things. Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks. Thief doesn’t have that many condi clears. Your balance suggestions are so stupid that they are actually infuriating. You don’t want to balance a utility skill you deem as broken, you want to destroy it because you’re upset with how good it is. Please don’t make anymore misinformed off-the-cuff threads like this again. It shows your intellectual weakness.

Lukas.7159:

skylink.4972:

Guys guys!! How long will it take till Henry gets stomped by a thief and post another thread about x(insert random thief skill/trait here) being op?

I would say 6 days.

2 hours maximum

I have my money on 40 minutes

Really poor bait thread. Make it a bit more subtle and actually pick something thats 1/2 way feasible.

Go with hard to catch next time

DeceiverX.8361:

You can follow them with Flesh wurm and spectral walk which are both on the same or lower cooldowns, or just a ranged weapon.

Is this a joke. Flesh Worm has too long a cast to be practical as a case utility. Unless the necro can predict the future and place the flesh as the SS spot ahead of time.

Spectral Walk is even worse as a case skill. It’s only teleports the necro to where the necro was when he started the SW. So unless the thief intentionally choose to SS to the start of the SW, it’s aint gonna do crap.

Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.

Shadowstep is a double stunbreak, a teleport, and a condi removal all in one. Another utility is a block that also offers a stunbreak and is a knockdown. All their heals do some secondary feature without cost — one heal stealths and gives regen, the other refills endurance, and another heals, breaks roots/snares and evades.

Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.

Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.

Can’t believe thieves even have the nerve to say their utilities are bad. Shadow step, shadow refuge, smoke powder, Block, disrupting daggers, and shadow trap. Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.

godz raiden.2631:

Also, as a Necro, you have access to flesh wurm, ……., so you should be grateful for it and learn to use it if you think shadowsteps are so broken.

Ughhhh
I am sooo triggered, not even memeing, i logged in on tablet just to request an infraction for such a dissrespectful and delusional post.

You even explained marks to henry like a beginner are you trying that hard to be offensive?

Can you people bashing against thief use your brain for once pls

thief in its current state has 2 condi removals, being signet which clears one single condi and shadowstep that clears 3 condis ON RETURN

the difference between other classes and thief is, that thief has almost no boons, except might fury swiftness from steal (+ stolen boons, which dont last long enough to be productive)

so while rangers, engis, eles etc. can all deal with pressure fairly good through boonspam, thief cant do kitten under pressure other than disengaging/stealthing

so you guys wanna tell me that nerfing one of the few good skills from thief will benefit the game?

thief nerf means less people play thief, means that the meta will drive itself into a boring bunker meta AGAIN

case closed.

Entenkommando.5208:

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior

Nothing surprising.

Example ‘A’ of Thief bias. Because they’ll say the same thing if you’re another class that beats them.

@OP 10/10 would read again

Zenith.7301:

Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.

You mean stacked like this or this ? The only thing overloaded with effects on thief is steal because you spend half your trait on that. SS has several benefits and most of the time you can’t used them all.
If you use it for :

• curing condis you loose at least one stunbreak + the mobility
• move fast you loose one stunbreak + the condi cure (since you won’t port back)
• repositioning (like getting out of LoS for healing or getting in LoS for headshotting or just mindgames) you are likely to not return in 10s

SS is a too precious utility and requiring a bit more thinking that just press X for Y. Its complexity is what makes this skill powerful and skillful.

Zenith.7301:

All their heals do some secondary feature without cost — one heal stealths and gives regen, the other refills endurance, and another heals, breaks roots/snares and evades.

I searched hard for an healing skill that only does Heal X with no others effects or conditions. And I have found one, in the whole game, and guess what : you can’t even use it in spvp.

Every other healing skill in the game have more depth from either healing more if X, removing conditions, gives boons , block or even works with professions mechanics.

The only serious skill that come close to your vanilla heal is this one but even on this one there is depth since it’s overtime.

Zenith.7301:

Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.

Are this or this meta ?

Zenith.7301:

Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.

It was cause d/d triple cantrip got 3 stun-break + awesome effect with all the synergy, many things were nerfed those days that may or may not still be relevant today.

The damage isn’t crappy at all on damage build (i took some 3k+ crit and can be combo’ed) and it’s a still pretty nice skill traited, it’s a huge mobility skill for a rather slow ele.

I don’t see why you want LF to port twice, thieves are meant to do frequent in/out (see the number of rollback or port in/port out), eles aren’t meant to do that it’s either stay ranged (staff) or go in (daggers).

Zenith.7301:

Can’t believe thieves even have the nerve to say their utilities are bad. Shadow step, shadow refuge, smoke powder, Block, disrupting daggers, and shadow trap.

Shadow Refuge is meh at burst because counterplay is ez and pinning a thief for this long is a death setence.
The last time i saw Smoke Powder it was for doing skip in pve for what purpose do you want to take this skill ?
Have you even tried to use disrupting daggers ? Obviously not it’s a worse mechanism than mantras and the icd is just killing it, once fixed it could be used on non x/D set using PI.
Shadow Trap is working once in a blue moon.

The only utilities worth considering for a power spvp thief are :

• Shadowstep
• Signet of Agility
• Blinding powder
• Bandit’s Defense
• Infiltrator’s Signet
• Roll for Initiative
• Impairing Daggers
• Fist Flurry

Zenith.7301:

Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.

That’s more because synergy and not because of their effect. Druids will rather keep their ep-signet instead of signet of agility because it doesn’t fit their role as I don’t see any serious thief build taking signet of stone.

Did you even looked at that even ele version is better ?

Zenith.7301:

Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.

Shadowstep is a double stunbreak, a teleport, and a condi removal all in one. Another utility is a block that also offers a stunbreak and is a knockdown. All their heals do some secondary feature without cost — one heal stealths and gives regen, the other refills endurance, and another heals, breaks roots/snares and evades.

Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.

Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.

Can’t believe thieves even have the nerve to say their utilities are bad. Shadow step, shadow refuge, smoke powder, Block, disrupting daggers, and shadow trap. Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.

Amazing post. Completely spot on. Look at lightning flash (which is still played) and it shows how OP shadowstep is. Shadowstep simply shouldnt be a stun break much like lightning flash was (correctly) made to not be a stun break. It is so OP.

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

ich.7086:

@OP 10/10 would read again

Zenith.7301:

Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.

You mean stacked like this or this ? The only thing overloaded with effects on thief is steal because you spend half your trait on that. SS has several benefits and most of the time you can’t used them all.
If you use it for :

• curing condis you loose at least one stunbreak + the mobility
• move fast you loose one stunbreak + the condi cure (since you won’t port back)
• repositioning (like getting out of LoS for healing or getting in LoS for headshotting or just mindgames) you are likely to not return in 10s

Zenith.7301:

All their heals do some secondary feature without cost — one heal stealths and gives regen, the other refills endurance, and another heals, breaks roots/snares and evades.

I searched hard for an healing skill that only does Heal X with no others effects or conditions. And I have found one, in the whole game, and guess what : you can’t even use it in spvp.

Every other healing skill in the game have more depth from either healing more if X, removing conditions, gives boons , block or even works with professions mechanics.

The only serious skill that come close to your vanilla heal is this one but even on this one there is depth since it’s overtime.

Zenith.7301:

Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.

Are this or this meta ?

Zenith.7301:

Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.

It was cause d/d triple cantrip got 3 stun-break + awesome effect with all the synergy, many things were nerfed those days that may or may not still be relevant today.

The damage isn’t crappy at all on damage build (i took some 3k+ crit and can be combo’ed) and it’s a still pretty nice skill traited, it’s a huge mobility skill for a rather slow ele.

I don’t see why you want LF to port twice, thieves are meant to do frequent in/out (see the number of rollback or port in/port out), eles aren’t meant to do that it’s either stay ranged (staff) or go in (daggers).

Zenith.7301:

Can’t believe thieves even have the nerve to say their utilities are bad. Shadow step, shadow refuge, smoke powder, Block, disrupting daggers, and shadow trap.

Shadow Refuge is meh at burst because counterplay is ez and pinning a thief for this long is a death setence.
The last time i saw Smoke Powder it was for doing skip in pve for what purpose do you want to take this skill ?
Have you even tried to use disrupting daggers ? Obviously not it’s a worse mechanism than mantras and the icd is just killing it, once fixed it could be used on non x/D set using PI.
Shadow Trap is working once in a blue moon.

The only utilities worth considering for a power spvp thief are :

• Shadowstep
• Signet of Agility
• Blinding powder
• Bandit’s Defense
• Infiltrator’s Signet
• Roll for Initiative
• Impairing Daggers
• Fist Flurry

Zenith.7301:

Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.

That’s more because synergy and not because of their effect. Druids will rather keep their ep-signet instead of signet of agility because it doesn’t fit their role as I don’t see any serious thief build taking signet of stone.

Did you even looked at that even ele version is better ?

It is strong because it does too much. This isnt up for debate.

Also stun breaking is strong in itself. To stun break and teleport 1200 gets you out of any follow up, it is totally broken

The utility skill Shadow Step is fine.

IMO. Infiltrator’s signet, Infiltrators Strike, Steal, Judge’s Intervention, Symbol of Blades, and I’d even argue Illusionary Leap (which at least has a tell) should all require Line of sight.

Lordrosicky.5813:

It is strong because it does too much. This isnt up for debate.

Also stun breaking is strong in itself. To stun break and teleport 1200 gets you out of any follow up, it is totally broken

Well, it is up for debate evidently. You have your opinion that it does too much, other players have theirs that it does what the class needs to survive. Both viewpoints are valid.

Also, define too much. Necro shroud when traited can corrupt boons, apply condis, give boons to yourself, prevent downed allies bleeding out and stunbreak while shielding your health from further damage and giving access to powerful CC, should I say that does too much for a single skill and demand a nerf too?

Power thief is meant to counter necro, just like guardian is meant to counter thief. Best just to get used to these things.

Daishi.6027:

The utility skill Shadow Step is fine.

IMO. Infiltrator’s signet, Infiltrators Strike, Steal, Judge’s Intervention, Symbol of Blades, and I’d even argue Illusionary Leap (which at least has a tell) should all require Line of sight.

Pretty sure that most of these skills do require line of sight, but that may not be true in sPvP, I know porting onto mid at clocktower was intentionally left this way when the no valid path check was introduced and ports as a whole were looked at. At least, the amount of times I’ve not been able to steal to an enemy because they/I was behind a pillar would suggest that. Might be wrong though.

Lukas.7159:

Can you people bashing against thief use your brain for once pls

thief in its current state has 2 condi removals, being signet which clears one single condi and shadowstep that clears 3 condis ON RETURN

the difference between other classes and thief is, that thief has almost no boons, except might fury swiftness from steal (+ stolen boons, which dont last long enough to be productive)

ehh
condi remove on heal if you use it, shadowstep, signet, dodge, and evading an attack.
thief steal gives tons of boons, the ones listed in trickery plus 3 you can rip.
yes pls use brain.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Also, define too much. Necro shroud when traited can corrupt boons, apply condis, give boons to yourself, prevent downed allies bleeding out and stunbreak while shielding your health from further damage and giving access to powerful CC, should I say that does too much for a single skill and demand a nerf too?

Just going to chime on the inaccuracies in bold. That trait is not shroud specific. Also you are comparing shroud, a class mechanic, to a utility skill. Everything you mentioned is better compared to traited steal. You have steal specific traits in deadly arts, shadow arts, acrobatics and then the whole trickery line , being a class mechanic line, is steal centric. Same as necro has shroud specific traits in most traitlines.

Bad news OP but SS does not clean any condies. It just breaks stun and port you away. Same as necro’s Necrotic Traversal you know? Except it does not poison anyone and does not recharge anything as Necrotic Traversal does.

fumcheg.1936:

Bad news OP but SS does not clean any condies. It just breaks stun and port you away. Same as necro’s Necrotic Traversal you know? Except it does not poison anyone and does not recharge anything as Necrotic Traversal does.

ShadowStep doesnt clean any condi but the followup skill also breaks stun and cleans 3.

So if you are going to compare summon flesh wurm -> necrotic traversal then you have to compare shadowstep -> shadow return.

Comparing between classes though is fundamentally silly.

I think ANet really needs to take a pass through skills and ask themselves “How much weaker could I make this skill and have it still be used nearly 100% of the time?”

A good example of this, as mentioned earlier, is lightning flash. Yes, it doesn’t stunbreak anymore, but its still taken 90% of the time by eles (never leaves my bar in any game mode) as its still our best utility imo.

If shadowstep was 900 range and had no stunbreak, or only had 1 stunbreak (on the return for instance), would every thief take it? Probably. Sure, you then need to think about inter-class balance, but I think this game needs to start trying to reign in the power-level of everything – we could then make better diversity and have more interesting build options. Instead, we get 1 meta build for most classes and maybe 4-6 utilities to actually choose from (the rest being pure trash). Same problem with traits.

This is a problem related not as much to balance as it is power-creep. As they are designing new skills, they have to make them as powerful or more powerful than the current best-in-slot to see any usage, which is how you end up with giving a stunbreak+block+cc on a 15s CD (and yet that still isn’t used all the time b/c its just so hard to compete).

fumcheg.1936:

Bad news OP but SS does not clean any condies. It just breaks stun and port you away. Same as necro’s Necrotic Traversal you know? Except it does not poison anyone and does not recharge anything as Necrotic Traversal does.

So, you compare the most mobile class in the game with the less mobile, because they both have skill which can teleport? You could easily take away shadowstep from thieves and they would still be the most mobile class in the game.

Sigmoid.7082:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Also, define too much. Necro shroud when traited can corrupt boons, apply condis, give boons to yourself, prevent downed allies bleeding out and stunbreak while shielding your health from further damage and giving access to powerful CC, should I say that does too much for a single skill and demand a nerf too?

Just going to chime on the inaccuracies in bold. That trait is not shroud specific. Also you are comparing shroud, a class mechanic, to a utility skill. Everything you mentioned is better compared to traited steal. You have steal specific traits in deadly arts, shadow arts, acrobatics and then the whole trickery line , being a class mechanic line, is steal centric. Same as necro has shroud specific traits in most traitlines.

Ah, fair play. It’s been a while since I logged on necro, so sorry for the inaccuracies. I guess that my general point was that just because a skill/mechanic does many things doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed, is all. Considering only one thing in a vacuum, you could make almost anything sound OP.

ich.7086:

@OP 10/10 would read again

Zenith.7301:

Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.

You mean stacked like this or this ? The only thing overloaded with effects on thief is steal because you spend half your trait on that. SS has several benefits and most of the time you can’t used them all.
If you use it for :

• curing condis you loose at least one stunbreak + the mobility
• move fast you loose one stunbreak + the condi cure (since you won’t port back)
• repositioning (like getting out of LoS for healing or getting in LoS for headshotting or just mindgames) you are likely to not return in 10s

Zenith.7301:

Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.

Are this or this meta ?

Zenith.7301:

Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.

It was cause d/d triple cantrip got 3 stun-break + awesome effect with all the synergy, many things were nerfed those days that may or may not still be relevant today.

The damage isn’t crappy at all on damage build (i took some 3k+ crit and can be combo’ed) and it’s a still pretty nice skill traited, it’s a huge mobility skill for a rather slow ele.

I don’t see why you want LF to port twice, thieves are meant to do frequent in/out (see the number of rollback or port in/port out), eles aren’t meant to do that it’s either stay ranged (staff) or go in (daggers).

Zenith.7301:

Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.

That’s more because synergy and not because of their effect. Druids will rather keep their ep-signet instead of signet of agility because it doesn’t fit their role as I don’t see any serious thief build taking signet of stone.

Did you even looked at that even ele version is better ?

As an ele main I would like to say that your comments on ele are just hilarious. You honestly think that soothing disruption is stacked? How about Improvisation which not only lets you use a stolen item twice (which is VERY strong. double mesmer stolen object which is double all the boons in the game, double revenant stolen object which would accumilate to a 5k-7k crit that can be shot from behind you, causes slow, and at 1200 range has about 1/2 second cast time.), but it also recharges a random skill category immediately after you steal. So that means double shadow step, double signet of agility, double Bandit’s Defense. And Signet of Air is not good at all seeing that when you run it, you’re basically useless. An AoE 1200 range vuln/blind(5 seconds) on its active and 25% speed increase on its passive wasn’t even enough to make me want to test it out after its buff. Again, synergy > skills’ actual abilities.

Poelala.2830:

Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.

Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?

and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?

I have to say, some Pro player always say CC → Burst → Teef down~CC!? What!? Are you fight with L2P teef!?

xeonage.1253:

Poelala.2830:

Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.

Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?

and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?

That’s 1 stunbreak firstly, which doesn’t even matter if you’re stun chained i.e. warrior’s headbutt then taunt proc on entering zerk form. 1 stun break isn’t enough to not get you killed from the incomming burst hit. Also, want to know other classes with 12 second stun breaks? Probably none. Though I bet you’d like to know 2 classes with 10 second stun breaks. Warrior’s outrage and Revenant’s traited legend swap. Not to mention revenant’s no cooldown stunbreak utility skill in shiro which can be spammed.

As a NEC, don’t want to chase the Teef. You just put 5 ring under yourself and pray Teef don’t go to find you. This is all you can do.

shagwell.1349:

fumcheg.1936:

Bad news OP but SS does not clean any condies. It just breaks stun and port you away. Same as necro’s Necrotic Traversal you know? Except it does not poison anyone and does not recharge anything as Necrotic Traversal does.

So, you compare the most mobile class in the game with the less mobile, because they both have skill which can teleport? You could easily take away shadowstep from thieves and they would still be the most mobile class in the game.

So you say that theif does not deserve to have porting stunbreaker because it has high mobility? So moblity is some kind of class property which allows this class to live without stunbreakers?

The entire thread is a joke. Old, not fun joke. OP has many of them. And most of them are about thieves.

Poelala.2830:

xeonage.1253:

Poelala.2830:

Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.

Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?

and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?

That’s 1 stunbreak firstly, which doesn’t even matter if you’re stun chained i.e. warrior’s headbutt then taunt proc on entering zerk form. 1 stun break isn’t enough to not get you killed from the incomming burst hit. Also, want to know other classes with 12 second stun breaks? Probably none. Though I bet you’d like to know 2 classes with 10 second stun breaks. Warrior’s outrage and Revenant’s traited legend swap. Not to mention revenant’s no cooldown stunbreak utility skill in shiro which can be spammed.

12 sec SB + 2sec block with 9 dodge + 2×1200 range mobility. If a stun can get you kill. This is unbelievable.

The only thing i learned from the past is that people resposible for class changes apparently can’t differ between serious and joke posts (anyone remember satirical thief nerf wishlist thread that was created purely for making jokes yet dev team actually took it serious and implemented most absurd changes? devs think DH traps are fine but choking gas is OP /smh)

Given that experience, i am afraid Henry will probably get his wish granted regardless how absurd it is. Time to join DH band wagon, screw skilled gameplay, embrace the faceroll!

@xeonage.1253: please get your numbers straight. What you posted is not true. I suggest you to visit GW2 wiki.

Poelala.2830:

As an ele main I would like to say that your comments on ele are just hilarious. You honestly think that soothing disruption is stacked?

Well it’s still better than most “category skill” traits that thief has because synergy with others traits (clean on regen / bonus endurance on vigor). I’m not saying it’s more strong, just that it got more effects.

Poelala.2830:

How about Improvisation which not only lets you use a stolen item twice (which is VERY strong. double mesmer stolen object which is double all the boons in the game, double revenant stolen object which would accumilate to a 5k-7k crit that can be shot from behind you, causes slow, and at 1200 range has about 1/2 second cast time.), but it also recharges a random skill category immediately after you steal. So that means double shadow step, double signet of agility, double Bandit’s Defense.

I always wet myself when i double that, joke aside yeah impro is very strong. Rev stolen is dodgeable and most decent revs i fought have learnt to dodge it (you rarely cast it on melee because rev melt thief on melee). The skill recharge is totally rng (it can recharges a category you got no skill slotted) and only one category so you never get full reset unless you play only 1 category but that never happen. Furtherore the whole trait can be negated by dodging/blocking the steal.

Poelala.2830:

And Signet of Air is not good at all seeing that when you run it, you’re basically useless. An AoE 1200 range vuln/blind(5 seconds) on its active and 25% speed increase on its passive wasn’t even enough to make me want to test it out after its buff.

I was just saying it was plain better on paper than the thief’s equivalent. Never said it was good and i toally agree it’s a crappy skill.

Poelala.2830:

Again, synergy > skills’ actual abilities.

True. Read my § about the signets I have said the very same thing.

Well its very powerful but fits thief…
But removing the condi removal from it would be good. It seems to be jsut packt on top to make it even better not fitting the Theme".

Stand The Wall.6987:

Lukas.7159:

Can you people bashing against thief use your brain for once pls

thief in its current state has 2 condi removals, being signet which clears one single condi and shadowstep that clears 3 condis ON RETURN

the difference between other classes and thief is, that thief has almost no boons, except might fury swiftness from steal (+ stolen boons, which dont last long enough to be productive)

ehh
condi remove on heal if you use it, shadowstep, signet, dodge, and evading an attack.
thief steal gives tons of boons, the ones listed in trickery plus 3 you can rip.
yes pls use brain.

yeah idk why you list skills and traits that no thief even uses, i could also say shrouded removal from nec is op cause you permanently lose conditions in DS or strength of the fallem from guard is op cause you lose a condition every 10secs by passive trait

and i mentioned above that thief only has 2 condi removals, which you listed again being shadowstep and signet (dodge removes soft cc which never had any affect on thief anyway)

also yes steal gives boons to you, but lets see: you got perma swiftness through dodging anyway, then you get a single mightstack (wow!) and fury (ok fury is good, but literally any other class can constantly apply fury to other teammates, so thief doesnt really rely on fury from steal)

then it removes 3 boons from enemies and applies them to yourself; BUT the uptime from the boons already ran lower when applied to the enemies, if you steal them you get maybe 1 or 2 seconds of that boon (which doesnt help in any case)

also priority from stealing is stability which got changed by anet long time ago (applied in intervals now), so it gets instantly reapplied to enemies

yep pls use brain.

Shadowstep.6049:

The only thing i learned from the past is that people resposible for class changes apparently can’t differ between serious and joke posts (anyone remember satirical thief nerf wishlist thread that was created purely for making jokes yet dev team actually took it serious and implemented most absurd changes? devs think DH traps are fine but choking gas is OP /smh)

Given that experience, i am afraid Henry will probably get his wish granted regardless how absurd it is. Time to join DH band wagon, screw skilled gameplay, embrace the faceroll!

@xeonage.1253: please get your numbers straight. What you posted is not true. I suggest you to visit GW2 wiki.

It is true, believe me. if you a thief you should know how to do 9xdodge 2×1200 in a fighting. Anyway, In this post, you are OP.

Something needs to be done to balance this. Currently this skill removes all counter play from thief

I think that henrys posts perfectly prove how people react when they hear anything about their class being too strong.

Every time, no matter how ridiculous or actually genuinely true, his statement is people will instantly rush in to defend the class as if somehow this post would lead to the class being nerfed.

I think this thread would have been much better if you brought up the much needed discussion of steal having a 2.5-3s cast time. Right now it’s absolutely absurd to have a skill that will lead to guaranteed kills and won 1v1s having no animation or window for reaction. Even worse is when it’s cast in stealth. In fact, even if you do add a fair cast time like 3s they’ll still be able to cast it in stealth which is a problem.

What do you think about this?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

it wouldnt be the donald trump dictionary. it would be the kelly conway dictionary. good try though.

nothelseth.4621:

I think this thread would have been much better if you brought up the much needed discussion of steal having a 2.5-3s cast time.

2.5 seconds?
I hate thieves as much as the next necro, but 2.5 second cast on anything is nuts in this game.

I do wish thieves had more telegraphs, but they are no worse than the old school power mesmers.

What I really think this game needs, is a class capable of actually running a thief down. Right now the only way to handle a thief is with another thief.

nothelseth.4621:

What do you think about this?

I think you should go back to Mesmer before Sind shows up to school you again and make you look foolish.

nothelseth.4621:

Right now it’s absolutely absurd to have a skill that will lead to guaranteed kills and won 1v1s

hahaha hahahah

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

it wouldnt be the donald trump dictionary. it would be the kelly conway dictionary. good try though.

It would be the Kellyanne Conway Dictionary, good try though.

godz raiden.2631:

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

it wouldnt be the donald trump dictionary. it would be the kelly conway dictionary. good try though.

It would be the Kellyanne Conway Dictionary, good try though.

nice you added 4 letters still not donald trump.

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

it wouldnt be the donald trump dictionary. it would be the kelly conway dictionary. good try though.

It would be the Kellyanne Conway Dictionary, good try though.

nice you added 4 letters still not donald trump.

I mean, the difference between Kelly Conway and Kellyanne Conway is equivalent to the difference between Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump, being that they are completely different people. Also, you should learn how to properly capitalize certain words in your writing, otherwise you just come across as a kitten . That’s not to suggest that being a kitten is a bad thing though, if you enjoy being a kitten , more power to you bro.

nothelseth.4621:

I think that henrys posts perfectly prove how people react when they hear anything about their class being too strong.

Every time, no matter how ridiculous or actually genuinely true, his statement is people will instantly rush in to defend the class as if somehow this post would lead to the class being nerfed.

I think this thread would have been much better if you brought up the much needed discussion of steal having a 2.5-3s cast time. Right now it’s absolutely absurd to have a skill that will lead to guaranteed kills and won 1v1s having no animation or window for reaction. Even worse is when it’s cast in stealth. In fact, even if you do add a fair cast time like 3s they’ll still be able to cast it in stealth which is a problem.

What do you think about this?

Decent ideas nothelseth.

Something needs to be done. The time for action is now anet. Lets work together with anet and find 3 ways to nerf thief to save gw2