Guild Wars 2

why wont you people understand that nerfing the zerker classes will lead to a season 1 deja vu

you want games that end after 15mins with a score of 50-30? that a team can surrender instantly after the other team gets a 2cap? cause thats how you get this….AGAIN

Lordrosicky.5813:

Decent ideas nothelseth.

Something needs to be done. The time for action is now anet. Lets work together with anet and find 3 ways to nerf thief to save gw2

Alright, cool! Let’s nerf thief in three ways that the GW2 community can all agree upon!

1) Give stealth a 10 second cooldown for thief. 10 seconds of reveal whether or not the thief uses an attack to break stealth, that way the thief is much easier to track at all times.

2) Make Shadowstep a 600 range teleport without a stunbreak. Also remove the shadow return aspect of it. Shadowstep should only be a one way trip. This also means the condition removal is gone as well. Cooldown increased to 100 seconds.

3) Make Headshot cost 8 Initiative, thereby making it impossible for a thief to get multiple interrupts in quick succession. Just to be sure though, also add a 10 second ICD to Pulmonary Impact. I know, this is two nerfs, but they go hand-in-hand so well that I just couldn’t stop myself!

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Decent ideas nothelseth.

Something needs to be done. The time for action is now anet. Lets work together with anet and find 3 ways to nerf thief to save gw2

Alright, cool! Let’s nerf thief in three ways that the GW2 community can all agree upon!

1) Give stealth a 10 second cooldown for thief. 10 seconds of reveal whether or not the thief uses an attack to break stealth, that way the thief is much easier to track at all times.

2) Make Shadowstep a 600 range teleport without a stunbreak. Also remove the shadow return aspect of it. Shadowstep should only be a one way trip. This also means the condition removal is gone as well. Cooldown increased to 100 seconds.

3) Make Headshot cost 8 Initiative, thereby making it impossible for a thief to get multiple interrupts in quick succession. Just to be sure though, also add a 10 second ICD to Pulmonary Impact. I know, this is two nerfs, but they go hand-in-hand so well that I just couldn’t stop myself!

oh oh i got something to add

give thief only one dodge bar instead of the three, but as a compensation thief now only dodges backwards

steal now gets a bigger animation then chaotic release to make sure absolutely everybody can dodge it now

attacks now remove HP instead of initiative, that way headshot spammer kills himself

Lukas.7159:

oh oh i got something to add

give thief only one dodge bar instead of the three, but as a compensation thief now only dodges backwards

steal now gets a bigger animation then chaotic release to make sure absolutely everybody can dodge it now

attacks now remove HP instead of initiative, that way headshot spammer kills himself

I feel so silly after reading your suggestions! Mine were way too tame! I agree totally with removing initiative and making thief us HP as a skill resource. However, I think we’ll have to modify the thief HP pool to compensate for that change. Maybe lower Thief base HP to around 5500, you know, just to be sure that the thief can’t spam his skills still. Of course each weapon skill will need to be reconfigured with HP cost, but each skill should, at a minimum, cost 2500 health.

godz raiden.2631:

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

NeXeD.3042:

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Now we have reached a consensus that it is OP, lets suggest ideas to nerf it. The best one is it shouldnt break stun. imo

A consensus? You must be reading from the Donald J. Trump Dictionary of Alternative Meanings if you think one person agreeing with you a consensus.

it wouldnt be the donald trump dictionary. it would be the kelly conway dictionary. good try though.

It would be the Kellyanne Conway Dictionary, good try though.

nice you added 4 letters still not donald trump.

I mean, the difference between Kelly Conway and Kellyanne Conway is equivalent to the difference between Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump, being that they are completely different people. Also, you should learn how to properly capitalize certain words in your writing, otherwise you just come across as a kitten . That’s not to suggest that being a kitten is a bad thing though, if you enjoy being a kitten , more power to you bro.

itz the intawebz bro tHere iS nOne grading my posts.

You tried to attribute something to the donald in an insulting manner when he didnt say it at all and you were wrong its ok to be wrong.

Lukas.7159:

Decent ideas nothelseth.

How about you react to his topic instead of derailing and making fun of it? Oh, right, you can’t. You are one of those “Thief is only viable because of my high skill level – players” – I get it.

^ eh hello this wasnt my quote, it was from henry

also are you blind? i already made several posts related to this topic, whats your problem exactly?

Lukas.7159:

why wont you people understand that nerfing the zerker classes will lead to a season 1 deja vu

you want games that end after 15mins with a score of 50-30? that a team can surrender instantly after the other team gets a 2cap? cause thats how you get this….AGAIN

This is such a bullkitten argument. If bunkers are a problem then the solution is not to have a class with broken mechanics and poor balance but to nerf the bunkers. Jesus christ. Its almost as if thief players can’t stand the thought of having a class with non broken mechanics.

OriOri.8724:

Lukas.7159:

why wont you people understand that nerfing the zerker classes will lead to a season 1 deja vu

you want games that end after 15mins with a score of 50-30? that a team can surrender instantly after the other team gets a 2cap? cause thats how you get this….AGAIN

This is such a bullkitten argument. If bunkers are a problem then the solution is not to have a class with broken mechanics and poor balance but to nerf the bunkers. Jesus christ. Its almost as if thief players can’t stand the thought of having a class with non broken mechanics.

its either you nerf bunkers or you buff the zerkers for a non-bunkerish meta

if henry didnt come up with this kittened shadowstep is unbalanced idea, then NOBODY would cry about shadowstep

but if a main necro makes permanently nerf thief here, nerf thief there threads, suddenly everyone comes out of his hole and shouts “thief op thief op” and this makes me furious

nothelseth.4621:

I think that henrys posts perfectly prove how people react when they hear anything about their class being too strong.

Every time, no matter how ridiculous or actually genuinely true, his statement is people will instantly rush in to defend the class as if somehow this post would lead to the class being nerfed.

I think this thread would have been much better if you brought up the much needed discussion of steal having a 2.5-3s cast time. Right now it’s absolutely absurd to have a skill that will lead to guaranteed kills and won 1v1s having no animation or window for reaction. Even worse is when it’s cast in stealth. In fact, even if you do add a fair cast time like 3s they’ll still be able to cast it in stealth which is a problem.

What do you think about this?

You’re trying to hard to bait.

If you really want to cut down and balance thief appropriately, we can keep Shadowstep where it is but what really needs to happen are these changes.

Agility Signet – Raise the CD from 30s to 45 seconds (Utility)

Endurance Thief – Only grants 25 Endurance instead of 50.(Daredevil)

Hard to Catch – Reduce endurance restored from 100% to 50% (Acrobatics)

Channeled Vigor – Reduce the pulses from 3 to 2. Increase the Healing for full endurance to 9320, and not full endurance to 7520.

Dash – Buff the damage reduction to 25% for both direct damage and condition damage, increase the duration from 4 to 5 seconds. Add a ICD of 3s to impairment removal trait.

Pulmonary Impact – Add a 3s ICD to this trait.

Driven Fortitude – Buff base healing from 456 to 856.

Rizigmar.2681:

If you really want to cut down and balance thief appropriately, we can keep Shadowstep where it is but what really needs to happen are these changes.

Agility Signet – Raise the CD from 30s to 45 seconds (Utility)

Endurance Thief – Only grants 25 Endurance instead of 50.(Daredevil)

Hard to Catch – Reduce endurance restored from 100% to 50% (Acrobatics)

Channeled Vigor – Reduce the pulses from 3 to 2. Increase the Healing for full endurance to 9320, and not full endurance to 7520.

Dash – Buff the damage reduction to 25% for both direct damage and condition damage, increase the duration from 4 to 5 seconds. Add a ICD of 3s to impairment removal trait.

Pulmonary Impact – Add a 3s ICD to this trait.

Driven Fortitude – Buff base healing from 456 to 856.

lol none of these are sufficient or do anything. PI 3s icd is pointless. Might as well not bother. It should be 10 seconds or reduced damage. Most similar traits have a 10s icd

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rizigmar.2681:

If you really want to cut down and balance thief appropriately, we can keep Shadowstep where it is but what really needs to happen are these changes.

Agility Signet – Raise the CD from 30s to 45 seconds (Utility)

Endurance Thief – Only grants 25 Endurance instead of 50.(Daredevil)

Hard to Catch – Reduce endurance restored from 100% to 50% (Acrobatics)

Channeled Vigor – Reduce the pulses from 3 to 2. Increase the Healing for full endurance to 9320, and not full endurance to 7520.

Dash – Buff the damage reduction to 25% for both direct damage and condition damage, increase the duration from 4 to 5 seconds. Add a ICD of 3s to impairment removal trait.

Pulmonary Impact – Add a 3s ICD to this trait.

Driven Fortitude – Buff base healing from 456 to 856.

lol none of these are sufficient or do anything. PI 3s icd is pointless. Might as well not bother. It should be 10 seconds or reduced damage. Most similar traits have a 10s icd

The point of the PI ICD would be so you can’t just spam HS or instant hard CC for multiple stacks, if it needs to go up the max i’d say would be 5s ICD, 10s makes it pretty useless and I’d rather Opt for a replacement trait at that point. Everyone would just use Condi removal on evade if that were the case, unless you’re a staff theif, then Staff Master.. The changes to endurance generation too means they can’t just spam evades anymore, unless they’re D/D, which will probably also be affected by these changes even more.

xeonage.1253:

Poelala.2830:

xeonage.1253:

Poelala.2830:

Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.

Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?

and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?

That’s 1 stunbreak firstly, which doesn’t even matter if you’re stun chained i.e. warrior’s headbutt then taunt proc on entering zerk form. 1 stun break isn’t enough to not get you killed from the incomming burst hit. Also, want to know other classes with 12 second stun breaks? Probably none. Though I bet you’d like to know 2 classes with 10 second stun breaks. Warrior’s outrage and Revenant’s traited legend swap. Not to mention revenant’s no cooldown stunbreak utility skill in shiro which can be spammed.

12 sec SB + 2sec block with 9 dodge + 2×1200 range mobility. If a stun can get you kill. This is unbelievable.

You are calling a strawman YOU fabricated “unbelievable”.

Rizigmar.2681:

If you really want to cut down and balance thief appropriately, we can keep Shadowstep where it is but what really needs to happen are these changes.

Agility Signet – Raise the CD from 30s to 45 seconds (Utility)

Endurance Thief – Only grants 25 Endurance instead of 50.(Daredevil)

Hard to Catch – Reduce endurance restored from 100% to 50% (Acrobatics)

Channeled Vigor – Reduce the pulses from 3 to 2. Increase the Healing for full endurance to 9320, and not full endurance to 7520.

Dash – Buff the damage reduction to 25% for both direct damage and condition damage, increase the duration from 4 to 5 seconds. Add a ICD of 3s to impairment removal trait.

Pulmonary Impact – Add a 3s ICD to this trait.

Driven Fortitude – Buff base healing from 456 to 856.

I would be fine with most of this tbh, although it would make channeled vigor far and away the best heal for thief. This is assuming that other classes (and particularly the random AoE spam) continue to get slight nerfs as well, so everything comes down at pretty much the same speed.

NeXeD.3042:

itz the intawebz bro tHere iS nOne grading my posts.

Are you blind? He just graded your post…and so will I.

F.

I think Henry’s been taking the Nerf Wish List a little too seriously.

I think shadow step is okay.

I would actually suggest a rework of Thieves so their weapon skills are based on recharge timers instead of an energy system. The spamming of certain skills I feel makes them too strong.

Rizigmar.2681:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rizigmar.2681:

If you really want to cut down and balance thief appropriately, we can keep Shadowstep where it is but what really needs to happen are these changes.

Agility Signet – Raise the CD from 30s to 45 seconds (Utility)

Endurance Thief – Only grants 25 Endurance instead of 50.(Daredevil)

Hard to Catch – Reduce endurance restored from 100% to 50% (Acrobatics)

Channeled Vigor – Reduce the pulses from 3 to 2. Increase the Healing for full endurance to 9320, and not full endurance to 7520.

Dash – Buff the damage reduction to 25% for both direct damage and condition damage, increase the duration from 4 to 5 seconds. Add a ICD of 3s to impairment removal trait.

Pulmonary Impact – Add a 3s ICD to this trait.

Driven Fortitude – Buff base healing from 456 to 856.

lol none of these are sufficient or do anything. PI 3s icd is pointless. Might as well not bother. It should be 10 seconds or reduced damage. Most similar traits have a 10s icd

The point of the PI ICD would be so you can’t just spam HS or instant hard CC for multiple stacks, if it needs to go up the max i’d say would be 5s ICD, 10s makes it pretty useless and I’d rather Opt for a replacement trait at that point. Everyone would just use Condi removal on evade if that were the case, unless you’re a staff theif, then Staff Master.. The changes to endurance generation too means they can’t just spam evades anymore, unless they’re D/D, which will probably also be affected by these changes even more.

Nerf all those too then

Lordrosicky.5813:

DeceiverX.8361:

You can follow them with Flesh wurm and spectral walk which are both on the same or lower cooldowns, or just a ranged weapon. If he really wants to disengage, he could just shortbow 5 or stealth away, anyways, which the class also depends on.

The thief is cornered into Shadowstep because most of its utilities outright suck, and it’s the only 2+ DoT condition cleanse on the entire class, anywhere.

It is an extremely strong utility, but there are so few good ones and the class in such an odd balance state it’s either mandatory or just excellent because it’s better with the rest and there are better alternatives in the rest of the kit.

I would swap any utility on any class for shadowstep in a second. It gives you everything in one skill. It is vastly OP compared to every other utility in the game.

And I’d trade Shadowstep for Suffer!, Plague Signet, and Spectral Armor or Rise!. Heck, there’s even a thread circulating on the necro forums made by necro players about how generally speaking, necro has the widest array of viable utilities of every profession right now.

And necro does have tools to kill power thief. They just don’t exist on the condi meta build because it can’t counter-burst and the thief will just run when it starts getting low (since it’s holding a necro on-point suggesting either it’s holding a scrapper there as well (and allowing a 4v3 on another point for his team, or holding a the likely-critical necro from a 4v4 teamfight elsewhere). Play power and if you play well with the right loadout you should be able to deal with them fairly well. I find thieves are typically on the easier side of matchups in 1v1 scenarios when playing power reaper.

And I’m not denying that Shadowstep is incredibly strong. The problem is that outside of Daredevil, which really only includes BD for great utilities, most of the thief utility skills are awful outside of very specialized builds (AKA not viable in PvP), and a lot of the thief’s kit is too heavily-dependent on it to function without it. Again, it’s the only burst cleanse anywhere on the profession, and PR’s both not in the meta unless playing staff acro vault spam (often seen as not a great build with the potential to have disastrous matchups) and it also fails to cleanse potentially-devastating conditions like weakness and confusion.

If you want to suggest buffing other utilities on the thief and/or the profession itself at the expense of Shadowstep in ways to keep the class useful, be my guest, but pretending like the class would be fine if this were nerfed heavily is just asinine.

@Helseth, trying a little too hard to troll. Might have had some bites on a 0.5s cast but 2-3s made it pretty obvious lol.

DeceiverX.8361:

Lordrosicky.5813:

DeceiverX.8361:

You can follow them with Flesh wurm and spectral walk which are both on the same or lower cooldowns, or just a ranged weapon. If he really wants to disengage, he could just shortbow 5 or stealth away, anyways, which the class also depends on.

The thief is cornered into Shadowstep because most of its utilities outright suck, and it’s the only 2+ DoT condition cleanse on the entire class, anywhere.

It is an extremely strong utility, but there are so few good ones and the class in such an odd balance state it’s either mandatory or just excellent because it’s better with the rest and there are better alternatives in the rest of the kit.

I would swap any utility on any class for shadowstep in a second. It gives you everything in one skill. It is vastly OP compared to every other utility in the game.

And I’d trade Shadowstep for Suffer!, Plague Signet, and Spectral Armor or Rise!. Heck, there’s even a thread circulating on the necro forums made by necro players about how generally speaking, necro has the widest array of viable utilities of every profession right now.

And necro does have tools to kill power thief. They just don’t exist on the condi meta build because it can’t counter-burst and the thief will just run when it starts getting low (since it’s holding a necro on-point suggesting either it’s holding a scrapper there as well (and allowing a 4v3 on another point for his team, or holding a the likely-critical necro from a 4v4 teamfight elsewhere). Play power and if you play well with the right loadout you should be able to deal with them fairly well. I find thieves are typically on the easier side of matchups in 1v1 scenarios when playing power reaper.

And I’m not denying that Shadowstep is incredibly strong. The problem is that outside of Daredevil, which really only includes BD for great utilities, most of the thief utility skills are awful outside of very specialized builds (AKA not viable in PvP), and a lot of the thief’s kit is too heavily-dependent on it to function without it. Again, it’s the only burst cleanse anywhere on the profession, and PR’s both not in the meta unless playing staff acro vault spam (often seen as not a great build with the potential to have disastrous matchups) and it also fails to cleanse potentially-devastating conditions like weakness and confusion.

If you want to suggest buffing other utilities on the thief and/or the profession itself at the expense of Shadowstep in ways to keep the class useful, be my guest, but pretending like the class would be fine if this were nerfed heavily is just asinine.

@Helseth, trying a little too hard to troll. Might have had some bites on a 0.5s cast but 2-3s made it pretty obvious lol.

Necro has viable utilities because none of them are too good. Shadowstep is so good that other strong utilities dont see play. It would help build diversity to nerf it

Dear Henry,
You play necro, thief is your counter. Get over it already.
It might look like thieves are OP but consider that other classes can easily take them down. You all can whine here that thief is so OP and what not.
But honestly did anyone on here ever thought of that as fast as he can kill someone he can get killed?
Also simple solution for a necro : don’t go close or far where you’re most likely encounter a thief

Just wait untill thief get Rifle next expansion, they will have Gunflame(backstab) from stealth

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

DeceiverX.8361:

If you want to suggest buffing other utilities on the thief and/or the profession itself at the expense of Shadowstep in ways to keep the class useful, be my guest, but pretending like the class would be fine if this were nerfed heavily is just asinine.

What about:

New F2: While in stealth thieves can see and deactivate harming traps in a X range. 60 sec CD

Trait swap: Stealing from a disabled target recharge Steal of 5 sec
Steal’s range decreased.

Mechanic nerf: (while in combat) gradually increase the next initiative cost by 1 after the 3rd cast of the same initiative’s skill

godz raiden.2631:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Decent ideas nothelseth.

Something needs to be done. The time for action is now anet. Lets work together with anet and find 3 ways to nerf thief to save gw2

Alright, cool! Let’s nerf thief in three ways that the GW2 community can all agree upon!

1) Give stealth a 10 second cooldown for thief. 10 seconds of reveal whether or not the thief uses an attack to break stealth, that way the thief is much easier to track at all times.

2) Make Shadowstep a 600 range teleport without a stunbreak. Also remove the shadow return aspect of it. Shadowstep should only be a one way trip. This also means the condition removal is gone as well. Cooldown increased to 100 seconds.

3) Make Headshot cost 8 Initiative, thereby making it impossible for a thief to get multiple interrupts in quick succession. Just to be sure though, also add a 10 second ICD to Pulmonary Impact. I know, this is two nerfs, but they go hand-in-hand so well that I just couldn’t stop myself!

Sounds perfect, spot on!

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

Lmao! Show me these 12k vaults and 10k backstabs. And both from stealth out of nowhere? You make up some funny stuff.

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

yeah not to mention axe#2 can almost one shot a thief

Lukas.7159:

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

yeah not to mention axe#2 can almost one shot a thief

not almost. With the right setup it absolutely can. I was playing a build the other day that was one shotting people its funny as hell but its a really bad build.

But that same build will also get one shot by theives and the axe 2 is only useful if the theif is using stealth alot…. if its just a dodge spam theif axe 2 is useless

NeXeD.3042:

Lukas.7159:

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

yeah not to mention axe#2 can almost one shot a thief

not almost. With the right setup it absolutely can. I was playing a build the other day that was one shotting people its funny as hell but its a really bad build.

But that same build will also get one shot by theives and the axe 2 is only useful if the theif is using stealth alot…. if its just a dodge spam theif axe 2 is useless

Shame thief has 1 million dodges

Thief never gets punished for making errors. He can just run into 3 people and get away with shadowstep and all the other OP stuff it has

Lordrosicky.5813:

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

If you don’t see tell on most telegraphed skill in game (vault) then you should probably play different game.
And while we’re at it, to be hit 12k vault or 10k backstab you need to be loaded with vulnerability, thief needs to be full glass and probably have many stacks of might. He may get the kill on you but next hit someone lands on that thief is killing the thief. But we’re going off topic now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Shame thief has 1 million dodges

Thief never gets punished for making errors. He can just run into 3 people and get away with shadowstep and all the other OP stuff it has

I feel so trolled now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I tried some thief and shadowstep is lol.

It basically makes thief 0 skill. It is impossible to die because whenever you mess up you just shadowstep out.

It is a stun break (basically double stun break)
A 1200 range instant cast teleport
It removes a ton of condis
It is only on a 40s cd of something after the return (lol)

Solutions (one of the following):
1, Make it not a stun break
2, Make it not remove any condis.
3, Reduce the range to 600
4, Increase the cd to 90 seconds
5, Make the cd only start when the return is used and increase the cd to 70 seconds

So skill-less. Impossible to die on thief because of this skill.

First you should stop trolling.
Second. The guys who agree with you, wth? seriously you think a “40” (actually 50) seconds stunbreaker is op to a class which dies in seconds if stunned?
Also 85% of the thieves using only this stunbreaker in ranked pvp, you cant stun more then once a thief? Headbutt, shieldbash f1 war meta, necro fear mark, shroud 3, 5 ,elite
This argument is pathetic, 3 condi remove is nothing not even using condi priority, mesmer can shatter 3 times in a row…..
Third why im feeding these trolls?

Moonsinn.5382:

out of nowhere?

Now thieves without weapons can make a stealth RKO!

martin.1653:

Lordrosicky.5813:

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

If you don’t see tell on most telegraphed skill in game (vault) then you should probably play different game.
And while we’re at it, to be hit 12k vault or 10k backstab you need to be loaded with vulnerability, thief needs to be full glass and probably have many stacks of might. He may get the kill on you but next hit someone lands on that thief is killing the thief. But we’re going off topic now.

Not everyone has infinite dodges. I have 2. Doesnt matter how telegraphed it is when thief can spam it much more times in a row than I have dodges.

Most games in ranked are decided by whose thief is better.

Henry how about we argue about Hp now?

you got like 40k+ hp in total with DS, thief has not even half of it

if necro gets focussed really hard by 5 people with full DS, he still can survive a few seconds…with ele (+ maybe engi and druid) support even longer

there is a reason why necro/ele is the best 2v2 combination atm

now lets say thief gets focussed hard by 5 people, he cant even react by time cause hes already dead….and no one, not ele druid or engi can support a thief that much that he can facetank like necro can

do i shout “LOWER NECROS HP POOL!!! OP NECRO”?

no i dont, i just accept the fact that every class has a DIFFERENT meaning in game and a DIFFERENT mechanic and DIFFERENT skills and i move on with life

Lordrosicky.5813:

Necro has viable utilities because none of them are too good. Shadowstep is so good that other strong utilities dont see play. It would help build diversity to nerf it

Please list the other strong utilities that Thief has access to, and why you believe those utilities are strong, otherwise this comment is meaningless.

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

I’m not ignoring your point, you are comparing two separate things here. Mesmer has to fill 2 of their 3 utility slots with blink and mimic, and use both skills in conjunction with our class mechanic to get 3 teleports off compared to thief getting 1 teleport off with their 1 utility. Without mimic on the bar, mesmers can get at most 1 blink off, because even if they blink in CS it will return them to their start position when it ends. So comparing “skill for skill”, mesmers in any halfdecent setup will only get 1 teleport out of blink in a PvP setting.

But all of that is beside the point because I don’t think shadowstep needs to be nerfed and I wasn’t calling for it to be nerfed.

Almost 100 posts already proves how OP it is. Time to act anet. Make one of the changes I suggested.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Almost 100 posts already proves how OP it is. Time to act anet. Make one of the changes I suggested.

and 99% of them are how stupid this thread is

idk why you give yourself the illusion that every post of you is useful

Lukas.7159:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Almost 100 posts already proves how OP it is. Time to act anet. Make one of the changes I suggested.

and 99% of them are how stupid this thread is

idk why you give yourself the illusion that every post of you is useful

Almost everyone knows how op it is. Even thieves know. It does so much in 1 skill, condi clear, double stun break, teleport. What other utility does so much on any class? Imahine if endure pain was a teleport and cleansed 3 condis too.

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

This guy puts up “casual player” on his sign yet complains about thief op QQ

sounds like typical casual player l2p issue

MidoriMarch.8067:

Lordrosicky.5813:

martin.1653:

OriOri.8724:

martin.1653:

Mesmer called, but I couldn’t really hear him clearly beccause he was laughing so hard he accidentally teleported 4 times in a row.

If you’re running mimic and you use CS just to blink 3 times in a row you are playing mesmer wrong in PvP

Well, you’re obviously ignoring my point. But the possibility to chain teleports is there. And it’s stun breaker. And it’s on 30(24)s cooldown which is much less than 50(40)s that thief has. I’d take mesmer’s cooldown before condi clear on second port any time.

To add:
If we were to compare skill for skill like I just did for mesmer then you would see there is a lot of imbalance like this. Two skills or traits that have same mechanic can differ a lot between classes. Some get more some get less, depending on how their class is played and what mechanics it has.
Calling Shadowstep op is really not knowing basics of the game and being salty. Thiefs don’t really have going much for them and few goods skills keep thief alive in what would otherwise be being one-shot scenario. But I guess it’s easy for Necro to talk stupid stuff like op did, he isn’t the one that will get killed by one or two strong attacks. He has effectively 40k HP (minimum) and he doesn’t care most of the time.

lol dude, a vault hits me for 12k. PI hits me for 4k. backstab for around 10k. So instantly I lose half my health with no visual tell at all. How is that fun?

This guy puts up “casual player” on his sign yet complains about thief op QQ

sounds like typical casual player l2p issue

Nah thief is just broken

It’s one of the only stun breaks we have, it’s our best condi clear we have (and still required you to return to your previous point.)

50s CD “double” stun breaker. Clear 3 condis if you will use chain skill. 1200 range.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep – “just” stunbreaker and 1200 teleport (f.e. mesmer have the same skill – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink with 30s CD and YOU AS NECRO have same skill – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Traversal with 32s CD – which is also blast finisher, doing poison condi to 5 targets and generates life force and 1st skill in chain (Summon Flesh Wurm) is also doing damage.

The second chain skill is Shadow return https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return which is stunbreaker, clears 3 condis (nothing special) and 1200 teleport where you can`t choose where to teleport (you just know where you will be ported back).

I don`t see nothing special on Shadowstep if I will compare it to other similar skills. “Side” effects which are connected to this kind of skill are different for different classes, f.e.
Thief – stunbreaker, clear 3 condis, teleport
Necro – stun breaker, doing dmg, teleport, blast finisher

So I still don`t understand this flamewar you created. But… I saw your other threads…unfortunately.

SkipperCZ.6912:

50s CD “double” stun breaker. Clear 3 condis if you will use chain skill. 1200 range.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep – “just” stunbreaker and 1200 teleport (f.e. mesmer have the same skill – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink with 30s CD and YOU AS NECRO have same skill – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Traversal with 32s CD – which is also blast finisher, doing poison condi to 5 targets and generates life force and 1st skill in chain (Summon Flesh Wurm) is also doing damage.

The second chain skill is Shadow return https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return which is stunbreaker, clears 3 condis (nothing special) and 1200 teleport where you can`t choose where to teleport (you just know where you will be ported back).

I don`t see nothing special on Shadowstep if I will compare it to other similar skills. “Side” effects which are connected to this kind of skill are different for different classes, f.e.
Thief – stunbreaker, clear 3 condis, teleport
Necro – stun breaker, doing dmg, teleport, blast finisher

So I still don`t understand this flamewar you created. But… I saw your other threads…unfortunately.

I would swap any utility on any class for shadowstep. It is the best utility in the game bar none. Should the best utility in the game not be nerfed?

Lordrosicky.5813:

I would swap any utility on any class for shadowstep. It is the best utility in the game bar none. Should the best utility in the game not be nerfed?

And then some other ability becomes the best utility in game. Should the best utility in the game not be nerfed?