Guild Wars 2

I also hope this “fix” will be split between pve and pvp. I had all but retired my mesmer from pve because they had been nerfed into the ground to the point that for e.g. dungeons and fractals (once people learned how to do swamp) bringing a mesmer felt like gimping the group since most other classes simply brought more to the party. With this patch mesmers have finally been given a buff for the first time in far too long, don’t take it away

As if thieves and warriors aren’t exactly the same “Shazam! You are dead” machines? >.>

But please JonathanSharp and devs…if you’re going to nerf Mesmers any more, then do something to thieves’ and warriors’ burst damage as well – not to mention fixing any bugs related to any nerfed classes so that you don’t leave them crippled after nerfs…

Many of us run burst and glass cannon builds because we all know that when it comes to duels and skirmishes, a good offense is a good defense – you can’t kill me if you’re dead first. With the chaotic and fast-paced game play this game has, you can’t blame us for wanting to take up these builds, especially to counter thieves.

Well I guess I better have my fun now before I get nerfed again.

What happened to let the meta develop, btw?
-100b warriors were considered hugely OP until people learned how to deal with them.
-BS thieves were considered hugely OP until people learned how to (partly) deal with them.
-Shatter mesmers are considered hugely OP but instead of letting the community figure out how to counter them they will immediately get nerfed instead?

Something seems out of place here. Yes, all these classes (and several others) have access to huge bursts but why does it seem like mesmers are always the ones getting the short stick when it comes to nerfs?

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

Why can’t you address the backstab damage? When it comes to mesmer its easy to nerf it and force the class to use only one build.

As an almost pure PvE mesmer Mr Sharp’s comments are rather disturbing. For the love of the six gods please make any changes you make into a PvE/PvP split; mesmer’s in PvE still don’t come close to the DPS of the other classes (In PvP a player is smart enough to dodge a HB but in PvE mobs take the whole thing on the chin, a shatter spike’s damage doesn’t come close to the AoE DPS capability of other classes)

Furthermore with the might stacking, mesmers for the first time have enough power to run alternative builds, like using insignia other than beserkers, or running boon support; nerf shatter and we’re worse off than ever before because in the time intervening they took away our phantasms (thanks to WvW) and portals (thanks to sPvP).

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

so im unsure here, because essentially people said there was a bug that was making mind wrack do a large amount of extra damage, so are you fixing that bug, or are you removing the boons from shatters? Its not clear if you are saying that your last round of mesmer changes were bad, or that you intend to fix the bug that allowed it to do additional damage.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

what about if i use something like this in live tourny?
http://www.razerzone.com/it-it/gaming-keyboards-keypads/razer-nostromo

can i use it as long as i keybind: 1key = 1 keystroke?

Rainu.6871:

What happened to let the meta develop, btw?
-100b warriors were considered hugely OP until people learned how to deal with them.
-BS thieves were considered hugely OP until people learned how to (partly) deal with them.
-Shatter mesmers are considered hugely OP but instead of letting the community figure out how to counter them they will immediately get nerfed instead?

Something seems out of place here. Yes, all these classes (and several others) have access to huge bursts but why does it seem like mesmers are always the ones getting the short stick when it comes to nerfs?

First, HB Warriors are only strong when the opponent doesn’t knows how to play. Which makes them underpowered in competitive pvp, and overpowered against the mindless AI from PvE. If anything, Warriors need to be buffed for pvp (even if at the cost of a small nerf to HB, IMO), and for PvE, it’s the AI that needs to be fixed.

Second, BS Thief is probably still BS. :P The differene between a thief and a warrior, is that you can counter a warrior with almost anything, while countering stealthed a burst is quite a different situation. IMO, BS needs to be nerfed, especially if Anet wants non-thieves and non-mesmers to have glass cannon builds too.

Finally, shatter mesmers have been overpowered because they could already burst high and still bring a lot of control and party support. Portal, their elites, their excellent self-survival (blur, distortion, stealth, clones, evasion teleports), confusion, immobilize, chaos storm, etc, while still bursting high. It’s not about letting the meta grow: the meta already developed and showed to everyone how this mesmer build was overpowered. What made things worse, is that this build was directly buffed last patch. Now, in addition to everything this build already does, it can still get 6-18 stacks of might AND perma-vigor. Yeah.

A Shatter Mesmer is pretty much a god in today’s meta. I think HB and BS burst should be toned down (and Mind Wrack too). But a Shatter Mesmer build offers a lot more than (an insanely strong burst). It can stand its ground due to its excellent defenses, it can (now) burst even higher and evade twice as often, and can make their entire party instant-win with mass stealth/ quickness and (now) might-spreading.

I think mesmers should have a might-stacking/ spreading build, but it should be for a different, unrelated build. Maybe move Shattered Strength to another traitline that is not used by the current shatter builds. Or maybe making it a major, and giving the player the choice between it and persona. Or something.

I like how you make it seem that 6-18 stacks of might are SUPER OP, when many other classes generate that might pretty easily too. Do the math, 9 stacks of might = 315 power, which = ~10% of a full glass cannon build in terms of damage increase. This is only after a shatter, meaning it would have to be the second shatter that was done to even obtain the 3-9 might stacks. The might stacks barely help the mesmer in attacking since the mesmer weapon/auto attacks have the worst dps if not one of the worst in the game. Try a mesmer for once and see how much those might stacks really help, lol. Btw, we’re not talking about the bug discussed in the other thread, which isn’t that

Man, I didn’t know immobilize was such a special skill that seemingly mesmer should never have compared to every other class, especially as it’s based off a very unreliable clone jumping skill that has 600 range/barely any cripple to begin with to even start it, great skill there.

Let’s see, if I carry portal/decoy/blink as you say mesmers have all the time, then I can’t use mirror images to even bring out clones fast enough to do a quick double shatter. I can’t even do a triple shatter because then I can’t use the signet of illusions to recharge my shatters. Then I can’t carry the signet of inspiration to even spread the massive 9 stacks of might every 45 seconds. Where did my 6 utility skill bar come from? MESMER OP 6 UTILITY SKILLS IN ONE BAR.

Vigor change from before wasn’t much different than now, 1s vigor/crit, compared to 5s vigor total per 5s. So we had a similar trait before, it was just now buffed so its up a bit more often than before, not a massive change considering most mesmers have high precision.

Nice agenda against mesmers btw, that’s all I see you posting about.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

Translation:

Mesmers spike for “insane damage”… NERF!

Thieves and Warriors spike for even more damage than than the supposed “insane Mesmer damage”… Learn to play noob!

Balanced? I think not.

I find it hilarious how one of developer shows up and throws something like ’ we are aware of problem and currently looking in to it’ … 4 months later = nothing changes. Its like faking throw dog a ball .. works every time.

pengfx.8376:

I like how you make it seem that 6-18 stacks of might are SUPER OP, when many other classes generate that might pretty easily too.
(…)
Man, I didn’t know immobilize was such a special skill that seemingly mesmer should never have compared to every other class, especially as it’s based off a very unreliable clone jumping skill that has 600 range/barely any cripple to begin with to even start it, great skill there.

No one is saying that 6-18 stacks of might is overpowered. In fact, I even said that I think mesmers should have a specialized might/boon-stacking/ spreading build.

What people are saying, is that one of the most overpowered builds in the meta has been directly buffed with extra 6-18s seconds of might. There’s a difference here.

Other classes can generate might, but they must dedicate their builds for it. They must give away something for that. For example, an elementalist must sacrifice their bunker traits (which are the traits for their current best builds) for might-stacking.

A shatter mesmer does not need to give away anything. It was already one of the top-tier tournament builds before, and it’s even stronger now.

Immobilize is cool, but I never said that made them overpowered neither. I’ve said that having a LOT of options in the same build made them too strong, immobilize being only one of the many of those options. I was talking about the sum of all parts, not just a single detail.

It’s not an agenda against mesmers, it’s an agenda against overpowered builds that are dominating the meta.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

i believe this refers to the bug that sometimes raises your shatter damage to a level as if you had 6 clones out at a time, even though 3 should be the maximum. someone please tell me if i’m wrong, because this thread seems like most people don’t even know about it.

edit: seems like the thread “Mesmer Shatter Exploit” has been deleted. if you search this spvp forum for “macro”, you’ll find one of the posts is still listed there. i take it that means it was an actual bug/exploit and the thread was deleted by ArenaNet.

It’s unclear to me what exactly Mr. Sharp meant in his forum post. I imagine many people, myself included, are thinking it might mean a change to shattered strength.

Although he may just be referring to the clone “exploit” that other people have been talking about in other threads, the vague language makes it hard for me to be sure.

I believe, however, that with or without shattered strength in its current form, the shatter build will continue to dominate the mesmer metagame.

The thing is that with Mesmer you’re either doing damage with phantasms, doing damage with confusion or doing damage with shatters or some combination of all three.

People use shatter builds because they’re the class mechanic, they’re what the mesmer appears to be ultimately designed to do best.

The class doesn’t have enough healing to bunker as effectively as other classes can. We can use traits from the chaos and inspiration lines to give us protection and regen with the use of phantasms but then we don’t have the condition removal of water specced eles or guardians or even necros or engis.

Confusion is alright but you can’t ever force anyone to use skills when they’re confused and the traits that accompany a confusion build are somewhat clumsy. The scepter, the only weapon with a direct confusion application attack (confusing images) is a lackluster weapon. The torch trait is in the domination line for some reason. The staff has nothing for applying confusion.

Phantasm damage builds are ok but easily shut down. Smart players just kill the phantasms. Without deceptive evasion a mesmer is relatively easy to keep track of but running deceptive evasion with a phantasm damage build puts clone generation and phantasm generation at cross purposes.

Shatter builds, because of the slipperiness they offer as well as the high AoE damage and cc potential and the fact that the entire class mechanics are built around shattering, make shatters far more attractive to me than any other conceivable build and this has been so for a very long time.

Unless they make phantasm builds stronger or make confusion builds more easily usable, shatters will continue to be the way to go with or without shattered strength in its current form.

I think anyone else who plays mesmer will agree with what I have just said.

Changing shattered strength isn’t going to lead to more build diversity, it’s just going to lead to nerfed mesmers.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Thanks, John. Since the current balancing team seems able to do the impossible, while they are @ it, can they also look if they can split the PvP skill for the mesmer and see if they can somehow get back mine infinite light – i did open some ticket.

If you have a problem w the burst damage, then roll a friggin Mesmer. I’m tired of people complaining about these kinds of things, there’s counters to everything, b better. It’s still rediculous how you can be nerfing Mesmer when warrior can do the exact same thing. Hello kd + hundred blades? O ya that’s 20+k damage. Maybe look into the other professions burst damage too.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

Live tournaments?

U MAD ? XD

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

So tired of s/tPvP screwing things up for WvW. Mesmers finally had a chance against Thieves and Warriors in WvW and poof, s/tPvP crying gets them “addressed” with an apology from a dev to boot. Where is our WvW apology?

thieves need to and will get addressed as well. i mean they dont have to, but then people will just stop playing spvp.

nerva.7940:

thieves need to and will get addressed as well. i mean they dont have to, but then people will just stop playing spvp.

If there is something in a game that is making people stop playing it, then that issue should be fixed.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Lmao, where’s my patch for insane thief and warrior burst damage?

Good god. I should just roll a warrior, shouldn’t I? Can you just tell me that- flat out.

SteepledHat.1345:

Lmao, where’s my patch for insane thief and warrior burst damage?

Good god. I should just roll a warrior, shouldn’t I? Can you just tell me that- flat out.

The Shatter Mesmer build is arguable one of the strongest – if not the strongest build for pvp at the moment. Why would you want to reroll a Warrior, who falls way behind mesmers, thieves, guardians and bunker eles at spvp? Or do you enjoy the challenge? :P

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

I hope u got something in return. Mesmers not quite interesting in PVE with his low damage. Make him playable and balanced already. It can^t be u always nerf a class just because it’s “overpowered” in one of three play modes-.- This is annoying. Split the build in those modes if needed, but do it right.

Good thing I have a level 80 Warrior that is also my favorite class to play in sPvP, will just keep getting stronger while the biased devs nerf everything else.

Shame I wasted time leveling my Mesmer to 80 in PvE though as the PvPs communities refusal to l2p just means the weakest PvE class just keeps getting weaker and all I can do in WvWvW now is portal bomb, shame I hate portal bomb.

I think this is my first post in these forums. I have ele, thf and mesmer at lvl80, r23 on spvp and almost 10k kills in wvw. Having said that…

The way mesmers are after this last patch is simply I N S A N E, never ever any class had the damage potential (+ utility +defense, but this is like always has been) that mesmer has now. I never considered a class OP and never complained about any proffesion, because each class got it’s own strengths… But now, I can safely say that this is the first time in GW2 that i see a class/build completely broken.

In a way it hurts me because I thought i never would say this and call a class OP. Anyways, I really hope they fix it fast. In the meanwhile, enjoy it while you can

Cheers

Moan enough and Mesmer gets nerfed to beyond playable in PVE again.

There never seems to be changes that make it playable in all aspects of the game as it seems to always be one or the other.

It’s about time to start considering keeping PVE/WvW/sPvP seperate.

Shion.8059:

I think this is my first post in these forums. I have ele, thf and mesmer at lvl80, r23 on spvp and almost 10k kills in wvw. Having said that…

The way mesmers are after this last patch is simply I N S A N E, never ever any class had the damage potential (+ utility +defense, but this is like always has been) that mesmer has now. I never considered a class OP and never complained about any proffesion, because each class got it’s own strengths… But now, I can safely say that this is the first time in GW2 that i see a class/build completely broken.

In a way it hurts me because I thought i never would say this and call a class OP. Anyways, I really hope they fix it fast. In the meanwhile, enjoy it while you can

Cheers

I feel the same way. If people were actually open to discussion, it’s pretty easy to differentiate how this change is different from what people complain about with Thieves or Warriors, but people will choose to believe what they want.

I felt defeated to admit Anet finally broke something for PvP, and considering the fast response from the devs, I think they agree.

For those of you upset on how these changes affect PvE, I understand your pain, but these forums really aren’t the place to air those grievances.

SteepledHat.1345:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Lmao, where’s my patch for insane thief and warrior burst damage?

Good god. I should just roll a warrior, shouldn’t I? Can you just tell me that- flat out.

Go ahead and roll a warrior… or a thief. Play some pick up play. Then join a tPvP match or two and see how you do. Warriors and Thieves being OP is an almost exclusive attitude of 8v8 play, which I don’t do anymore unless I’m drunk and just messing around.

This mesmer thing affects all elements of both casual play and tPvP… and that’s why it is being addressed more quickly than your assumption of Warriors and Thievs being OP.

We don’t even know exactly what they’re going to change yet. I don’t think Sharp’s post is entirely clear.

I think I’ll wait until I actually have something concrete to look at to either cheer or despair.

Israel.7056:

We don’t even know exactly what they’re going to change yet. I don’t think Sharp’s post is entirely clear.

I think I’ll wait until I actually have something concrete to look at to either cheer or despair.

At worst you’ll just reset to where you were before the patch, which was already very good in PvP, at the top next to Guardian.

I have no clue how it affects PvE.

So are they telling us that they are finally gonna get rid of that over powered move???

aydenunited.5729:

Israel.7056:

We don’t even know exactly what they’re going to change yet. I don’t think Sharp’s post is entirely clear.

I think I’ll wait until I actually have something concrete to look at to either cheer or despair.

At worst you’ll just reset to where you were before the patch, which was already very good in PvP, at the top next to Guardian.

I have no clue how it affects PvE.

this patch finally gave us ONE build we could use in pve that would give us a reasonable number of sparkling corpses in cursed shore events. (20/20/10/0/30 GS, shatter-might)

If it gets nerfed in any way we go back to camping the TP if we want anything decent out of PVE.

You see, in zergs of risen we don’t get as much chance to take advantage of the bug that lets us “trick” the clone counter and cause 100% extra mind wrack damage, so if they don’t specifically fix that bug (when has ANet ever targeted the right problem?) then we end up sucking fumes again like we did pre-patch in pve.

Please split the changes. PvE mesmes continue to suffer because of PvP complaints.

Levetty.1279:

Good thing I have a level 80 Warrior that is also my favorite class to play in sPvP, will just keep getting stronger while the biased devs nerf everything else.

Shame I wasted time leveling my Mesmer to 80 in PvE though as the PvPs communities refusal to l2p just means the weakest PvE class just keeps getting weaker and all I can do in WvWvW now is portal bomb, shame I hate portal bomb.

At my work al colleges drive BMW but i got a ford fiesta, thats my favorite class. Im glad cause if my company now gong to save some money and let the others drive wv golf my fiesta will feel alot cooler!

At home I thu have a Porche, I do thu regret buying it as I dont feel I can put the energy in learn to drive it on any other than first gear, it feel wery weak and the more I drive it on first gear the weaker it feel. It do thu have a superb stereo, tobad I hate music.

/ Osicat

It’s not just glassy players that are feeling the impact of the new Mesmer burst. Even tanks are getting decimated.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Whats wrong with the current builds? The might stacking? Before mine mesmer already did around 10k with shatters.. (With crits and luck ofc)Now still.. I would say the backstabbers need a fix ^^ Mesmers are ok!

Video I made in Sept, with burst:

http://youtu.be/wJWYncz5gUE

People playing mesmers complained about having to play by the rules with LoS, dodge, miss, block, and ‘out of range’ … and now they’re complaining about an improper change being put back the way it was supposed to be. Wow… The mesmer is the class that makes all the thief jukes look like they belong in the game.

And whats with all the complaints about warriors? Warriors are about the easiest class to beat in the game. I’ve never had an easier time killing anyone than maybe a brain-dead, sidekicked, undergeared player than a warrior.

Redscope.6215:

People playing mesmers complained about having to play by the rules with LoS, dodge, miss, block, and ‘out of range’ … and now they’re complaining about an improper change being put back the way it was supposed to be. Wow… The mesmer is the class that makes all the thief jukes look like they belong in the game.

So when are Guardians, Engineers, Elementalists and Necros going to ‘play by the rules’ and have LoS, dodge and blind stop their summons?

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

I assume it will take you a month to introduce a fix, as usual? Guess I’m done with the game till 15th January, hope you are capable of fixing this mess by then. I’m pretty sure I paid for Guild Wars 2, not Mesmer Wars 2.

Levetty.1279:

So when are Guardians, Engineers, Elementalists and Necros going to ‘play by the rules’ and have LoS, dodge and blind stop their summons?

Perhaps when their summons are changed from UTILITIES to WEAPON skills and have their cooldowns cut to 1/4th of current ones?

SteepledHat.1345:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Lmao, where’s my patch for insane thief and warrior burst damage?

Good god. I should just roll a warrior, shouldn’t I? Can you just tell me that- flat out.

Please do roll a GC warrior and post your findings. What you’ll see is that you become fodder for shatter mesmers and you’ll go back to playing your mesmer. I strongly encourage you to do so and post a video of you against mesmers.

Where are the devs? When is this issue being fixed

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

I play a mesmer and i can understand, but please fix this intelligently. Do not nerf shatter damage, the problem lies in the 20 vuln stacks and 12 might stacks you get from 30 point illusionary persona with a well placed shatter. This isnt something a mesmer can spam endlessly, once that burst is gone, youre left with spatial surge dps for long enough that any class has ample opportunity to turn the fight around/kill you entirely

Also you have to have the other player on top of you, and not dodging off or evading at all for 2 seconds, which is pretty dumb to do if you know that mesmer has all his cds up… Maybe cut the vulns and might in half roughly,

Please dont crush mesmers again because 2 glassies ran into each other, the fight lasted ~2 seconds, and the winner was left with 20% health. If one or the other were not completely glass this would have changed the outcome drastically. Heck, even if the thief didnt try to glass burst a mesmer that was ready for him with clones out it would have changed drastically.