Guild Wars 2

Nightside.4715:

Malcastus.6240:

If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Why is it that every time someone complains about something “This isn’t the game for you”?

Because they can’t think of any intelligent counter-arguments.

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

downstate would be fine if there was no rally in the game or any skills that rally

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away..

Which is fine, in theory, the reality is downstates are highly imbalanced, that bomb the engy has, 90% of the time he will never get to use it and hence is pretty much a guaranteed stomp.

Not that it is an argument against downstates, merely that your claims they are balanced other than a bit of damage adjustment are ludicrous.

Calae.1738:

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

Ahahahaha!! OMG!! Bruce Lee!!! Tom Cruise!! The Last Samurai!! This thread is getting more and more hilarious!
Okay, ive had my lulz, but now onto serious stuff: Are you really comparing a game with headshots and a RPG??? How does headshots and downed state could coexist in a fps? It doesnt make any sense at all, you are completely detached from reality, wake up. This is a game in a fantasy setting, with wizards, necromancers, assassins with stealth, big bulky ogres with greatswords, etc., in a genre where dying from one single hit form full health is considered not acceptable. We, in this genre, usually had healers, which could bump you from near death to full health in a split second (see infuse from gw1). Now, we dont have healers, but instead we have seen that replaced by the 6th skill and downed state. Makes all sense, and adds another layer of tacticality and strategy to the game. It also adds some great clutch moves, that require skill, reflexive behavior and high awareness, completely the opposite of a simpleton death matchmode game.
Of course, all this goes to smithereens when you have bruce Lee and Tom Cruise teaming up in Enter the Last Samurai Dragon. All arguments are invalid.

Nightside.4715:

Malcastus.6240:

If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Why is it that every time someone complains about something “This isn’t the game for you”?

Because sometimes it isn’t the game for you. GW2 is a unique MMO, and some people play it while complaining that it’s not cookie-cutter. Some of the game aspects just require practice.

Larynx.2453:

Because they can’t think of any intelligent counter-arguments.

And counter-arguments were provided. If they weren’t ignored, they received responses along the lines of “the downed state has to go because I find it frustrating” and “I don’t like the downed state because I don’t know stomping tactics.” If aspects of the game were eliminated just because people didn’t like them or didn’t understand how to counter them, then the entire game would be comprised of Warriors running around trying to Hundred Blades one another. Thankfully, it doesn’t work like that.

Eduardo.4675:

Calae.1738:

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

Ahahahaha!! OMG!! Bruce Lee!!! Tom Cruise!! The Last Samurai!! This thread is getting more and more hilarious!
Okay, ive had my lulz, but now onto serious stuff: Are you really comparing a game with headshots and a RPG??? How does headshots and downed state could coexist in a fps? It doesnt make any sense at all, you are completely detached from reality, wake up. This is a game in a fantasy setting, with wizards, necromancers, assassins with stealth, big bulky ogres with greatswords, etc., in a genre where dying from one single hit form full health is considered not acceptable. We, in this genre, usually had healers, which could bump you from near death to full health in a split second (see infuse from gw1). Now, we dont have healers, but instead we have seen that replaced by the 6th skill and downed state. Makes all sense, and adds another layer of tacticality and strategy to the game. It also adds some great clutch moves, that require skill, reflexive behavior and high awareness, completely the opposite of a simpleton death matchmode game.
Of course, all this goes to smithereens when you have bruce Lee and Tom Cruise teaming up in Enter the Last Samurai Dragon. All arguments are invalid.

One shot kill? Don’t be silly.

In the games I played you had to hit the guy at least 4 or 5 times to bring them down. We didn’t have auto aim either. There’s no computer that aimed for the player. You couldn’t “target” someone; pressed a button and applied a “condition” or a “dot” or a “heal”.

We actually had to aim. Yes, aim. We had to observe, predict movement and behavior to learn how to anticipate. The game play was so fast that you had to rewind and slow motion everything to see what happened.

^ i could swear i have a sniper gun in BF3… that requires me to hold breath and shoot the target in the head to kill him instantaneously. And in COD i also remember having guns that could kill instantaneously. Even a knife. I could kill people with one knive strike. Unless it was Bruce Lee, obviously. That dude could take on 12 of us holding our knives in COD and mop the floor with us.

Eduardo.4675:

^ i could swear i have a sniper gun in BF3… that requires me to hold breath and shoot the target in the head to kill him instantaneously. And in COD i also remember having guns that could kill instantaneously. Even a knife. I could kill people with one knive strike. Unless it was Bruce Lee, obviously. That dude could take on 12 of us holding our knives in COD and mop the floor with us.

You’re too young. I go farther back than that. Quakeworld, Quake 2, Quake 3 Arena.

I couldn’t come close to this level of skill and I was considered really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liobVa82TgI

Calae.1738:

Eduardo.4675:

^ i could swear i have a sniper gun in BF3… that requires me to hold breath and shoot the target in the head to kill him instantaneously. And in COD i also remember having guns that could kill instantaneously. Even a knife. I could kill people with one knive strike. Unless it was Bruce Lee, obviously. That dude could take on 12 of us holding our knives in COD and mop the floor with us.

You’re too young. I go farther back than that. Quakeworld, Quake 2, Quake 3 Arena.

I couldn’t come close to this level of skill and I was considered really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liobVa82TgI

I see oneshots EVERYWHERE in that vid… are you trying to prove my point? ure doing a great job… Im confuzzled… what is your goal And im far from young, trust me. That game is the direct opposite of an mmorpg. Which is where we are now.

Calae.1738:

Malcastus.6240:

Why do all professions need to be dull and similar? That is so uninventive. An engi surely would have a bomb lying around that would trigger and blow people away. Or a ranger with its wound licking pet.

What is next. All need the same base hp, armor, skills and weapons available?

A bit of flavour is good. If someone who has the ability to move (mesmer, warrior, thief and ele) is making it hard on you, then lure them to a spot you know they can’t easily escape from.

The downed state is an awesome idea and serves to further strategic play, which is good and creates deeper gameplay and teamwork. If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Preach it brother.

You can’t convince me that the downed state makes sense because I know that it doesn’t. I come from team FPS shooters that require a ridiculous amount of team play and hand an eye coordination. If those games had a downed state it would be hilarious.

Although those days are far away behind me; the memories are fresh like as if I had them yesterday. The adrenaline rush of being outnumbered 3 vs 1 and owning them all maybe a distant memory but; I could replay that part in my head in slow motion like Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Now days developers are arguably less passionate about what they do and don’t even play the game themselves. It’s more about money than anything else. In an effort to attract as many customers as possible; the game is dumbed down too far and/or unbalance due to too many unique abilities. The end result is skilled players getting bored or frustrated by the unbalance.

Once the Athletes leave; you can forget about spectators. If there are no spectators then you can forget about your esport.

What did i just read?

Game implements downed state – “Dumbing down the game”.
No, what downed state does is decrease the emphasis RPG’s have on revive skills. and instead globalizes it and put’s decisive elements into the involvement.

There are pts when you arrive on the point and your team mate is downed.
You can’t straight revive because you’ll be blasted to kingdom come.
I throw Shadow Refuge over him, to get him some health and at least remove the “Stomp” threat from my engi.
Now I have to deal with the two people who just downed him to begin with.
Scratch that, run into my refuge for some quick stealth after planting a shadow return pt on my way there. Press revive for a moment to get him some health then Shadow return out of the revive before I get nuked by the grenades.
Switch to bow, to dodge the nonsense flying my way while pecking. Gotta buy 10 seconds and hope he doesn’t drop dead by then. Engi’s attention shifts to me, because I can burst his kitten to kingdom come. My engi comes out of stealth, uses his grapple finish and pulls one of them off me. So just looking at their other engi. Immobilized. shortbow out of damage. Engi blasts the guy he grapples, I switch to sword, Haste, Pw him down. BP, start the stomp. Shadow step away out of engi attacks as I stomp preventing me from dying, shadow return back and dead.
I saved him, he used downed skills to buy opportunity and to keep extra damage off me through his CC.

Or without the downed system it could’ve just gone like this
“nope.jpg”.

Or when you’re at keep you kill the guardian, and get smacked by a Mesmer using Illusionary wave, then popping Time warp and/or Distortion to save the guardian before your team drops him.
That’s called teamwork…

If you’re playing HJ you won’t see it because no one cares about each other in hot-join. Too busy playing deathmatch they’ll leave you on the floor. Or so busy rolling in zerg you’re on your own when you shouldn’t be and so get forced into that 1v2 with no sign of help in sight.

Ever see rugby. Where the guy get’s tackled, goes down and passes the ball to his teammate to keep posession in their hands and keep it progressing forward?
Nah when he goes down they should just auto give the ball to the other team…
Lol wtf.
Man why do they allow lateral passes in football? I had these guys 2v1 and they passed it to a third guy, this is outrageous…

Yes rally should exist in PvP.

If you can’t overcome the challenge, then you obviously need to work on your skills.

Without rally we’d have a cut & dry battle system, which inevitably would end with more people complaining about how boring or/and tedious it is.

We need a QQ section so this thread can be sticky-ed.

Good luck in increasing the population of sPVP.

That fish smells terrible from where I’m standing.

Nightside.4715:

Malcastus.6240:

If you only like to mindlessly butcher other people in the simplest sense, then perhaps this game isn’t the best choice for you.

Why is it that every time someone complains about something “This isn’t the game for you”?

Please check previous posts, if you only read a highlighted part that it comes out wrong. I didn’t mean it in an insulting way. Sorry if it came across that way, but removing such a grand aspect of the game because you dislike it or find it inconvenient isn’t going to happen as I see it.

It is odd that you want to remove the downed state, as it makes for much more interesting PvP fights, especially when it comes to teamwork. Adds a new dimension to it all. But others have mentioned that already.

Get rid of downed state entirely. It would make the game much better in PVP

@Malcastus
First, downed combat doesnt change the (mindless butcher other people in the mindless sense) it just means theres one more step in doing so…..

Also adding something like downed state abilities…you make the mistake of thinking anything you add to a game makes it better because its “more dynamic”. This is actually false, if you put in a mechanic that frusterates or distracts the player from doing the part of the game they enjoy, you are not making the game better.

For example, i could add to tetris that everytime you make some blocks dissapear before you can control the next block falling from the sky a code appears on the right and you have to punch it into the controller to continue controlling the block. This adds another level of complexity but does it make the game more enjoyable?

another example i could make a racing game, and every so often the car over heats and to cool it you have to spam two buttons as fast as you can while continuing to drive your car……..this adds more complexity, but what purpose… and is it fun?

Many people would agree the downed state attacks are not making the game more enjoyable. It just means before you die you get to spam 1 a lot and then click 2….and EVENTUALLY 3. Being in downed state isnt fun, you can hardly do anything…your not playing your character…you spend the entire time downed with few options, most of which you will use as soon as it lets you to stay alive and the rest of the time just spamming 1 or clicking 4. This isnt fun for you, and for the person trying to kill you…its frusterating, its another annoying goose hunt to finish you off…unless they have something that counters like stablility…then its even more boring because all it means is they have to come click on you.

its not making the game more fun, not every feature you put in a game makes the game better.

Not saying i dont think downed state shouldnt exist, it allows some form of ressurecting/healing. but it shouldnt be something you get for free (like rally) it shouldnt be something you easily click on an ability (rez signets) it should require an ally to put himself at risk to channel you to bring you back into the fight….there has to be concious effort on your team to do it.

But most importantly this thread is about Rally…. it doesnt need to exist. If anything it takes away gameplay.

I guess these threads are going to crop up as long as the game is around.

Downed state (love it or hate it) is a big part of GW2. If you can’t handle it, learn to adapt or move on. You’ll notice none of the top players complain about it – it’s a core part of the game.

It’s like people saying “you know what would make GW2 better? If it was an FPS”

Oareo.1604:

I guess these threads are going to crop up as long as the game is around.

Downed state (love it or hate it) is a big part of GW2. If you can’t handle it, learn to adapt or move on. You’ll notice none of the top players complain about it – it’s a core part of the game.

It’s like people saying “you know what would make GW2 better? If it was an FPS”

Thread is titled “should rally exist” not downed states. Lets try to stay on topic. Especially if your gonna make the comment “I guess these threads are going to crop up”….and then talk about something the thread isnt about.

The threat of rallying puts pressure on the other team, to make a choice between going for a stomp, going to revive, or playing the field.
Without rallying, there are less repercussions of letting a teammate die. As it is now, you have to consider the repercussions of going for a stomp and letting your downed mate be left unprotected which can trigger a rally if he is finished before you defeat the previous. It may be beneficial to juggle between offensively pressuring someone downed, and reviving to keep them alive.

If four people are fighting 2v2 and 1 goes down on both sides. The two standing members have to decide
A) fight each other revive C) stomp/attack downed D) Flee E) a combination of the other options.

Removing rally reduces the threat level. They can stomp your teammate, but the other person will still be downed.
As it is now, both were downed and your teammate has 10% health left in downed, you may say “Shoot gotta stomp/revive now before they get a rally”. If it was changed, the pressure is diminished and you’re allowed to care “less” about your teammate than you currently do. As there isn’t a threat of this 1v1 with 1 downed and 1 downed turning into 2v1 via rally.

If anything just makes a dude more independent as a unit because I don’t have the threat of successfully supporting teammates on the same level as current.
The game doesn’t need less teamwork.

Zinwrath.2049:

Oareo.1604:

I guess these threads are going to crop up as long as the game is around.

Downed state (love it or hate it) is a big part of GW2. If you can’t handle it, learn to adapt or move on. You’ll notice none of the top players complain about it – it’s a core part of the game.

It’s like people saying “you know what would make GW2 better? If it was an FPS”

Thread is titled “should rally exist” not downed states. Lets try to stay on topic. Especially if your gonna make the comment “I guess these threads are going to crop up”….and then talk about something the thread isnt about.

I guess I don’t see the point of downed state if you can’t rally from it. The whole point is down but not out. Having two options (res and rally) is what makes it interesting. If all you could do was res, people would just AoE the body even harder then they already do, nobody would res, and downed state would be pointless.

My main point is that it is a very core mechanic and I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

Oareo.1604:

Zinwrath.2049:

Oareo.1604:

I guess these threads are going to crop up as long as the game is around.

Downed state (love it or hate it) is a big part of GW2. If you can’t handle it, learn to adapt or move on. You’ll notice none of the top players complain about it – it’s a core part of the game.

It’s like people saying “you know what would make GW2 better? If it was an FPS”

Thread is titled “should rally exist” not downed states. Lets try to stay on topic. Especially if your gonna make the comment “I guess these threads are going to crop up”….and then talk about something the thread isnt about.

I guess I don’t see the point of downed state if you can’t rally from it. The whole point is down but not out. Having two options (res and rally) is what makes it interesting. If all you could do was res, people would just AoE the body even harder then they already do, nobody would res, and downed state would be pointless.

My main point is that it is a very core mechanic and I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

You do realize how ignorant that responce sounds when you say if rally didnt exist no one would rez each other? majority of ressurects happen in team fights outside of rally in competitive games. Maybe hotjoin it doesnt happen as much because no one cares about winning as much as just killing and wracking up glory.

But there are tons of abilities and strategys built around protecting your ally while ressurecting them…it then becomes a battle to stop the person doing it thus a shift in strategy. Its a healthy thing. So no…of course people would still ressurect each other, if anything it would encourage more people to. Also, it enhances a play style…most classes can spec around being good at ressurecting people in a team fight…thus it creates a role, and makes the game more dynamic. (in a good way)

ressurect always takes tactics and teamwork.
Rally can just happen accidentally or without risk.

the devs acknowledge there is issues with rez signets etc….as theres too many easy ways to get back into the fight, i see rally as one of them.

^ Rally isn’t necessarily “easy” because in a team fight you generally are not rallied by your own power, but your teammates.

But there are tons of abilities and strategys built around protecting your ally while ressurecting them…it then becomes a battle to stop the person doing it thus a shift in strategy. Its a healthy thing. So no…of course people would still ressurect each other, if anything it would encourage more people to.

That’s already how it is, the only thing is you’re removing the threat level of letting them stomp one of your teammates.
If it’s a 3 on 3, and the guardian goes down, and there thief goes down. They may just full well disregard their teammate, because him getting removed is less important than removing the guardian. As it is, you don’t want to ignore your teammate either because if you do and he goes down? Guardians back up. So regardless of how the composition is you want to care about your teammates not just because you get outnumbered, because you get outnumbered and bring somebody back into the game if you do not.

Times when a man is down and they get a man down. Mesmer interrupts your stomp. and Time warp stomps your guy bringing his back up. Now if you had put some effort on your homie this wouldn’t of happened. Sometimes you’ll rather revive a teammate than risk the threat of a botched stomp turning into a rally for them. That threat of rally helps keep out linearity in combat.

ensoriki.5789:

The threat of rallying puts pressure on the other team, to make a choice between going for a stomp, going to revive, or playing the field.
Without rallying, there are less repercussions of letting a teammate die. As it is now, you have to consider the repercussions of going for a stomp and letting your downed mate be left unprotected which can trigger a rally if he is finished before you defeat the previous. It may be beneficial to juggle between offensively pressuring someone downed, and reviving to keep them alive.

If four people are fighting 2v2 and 1 goes down on both sides. The two standing members have to decide
A) fight each other revive C) stomp/attack downed D) Flee E) a combination of the other options.

Removing rally reduces the threat level. They can stomp your teammate, but the other person will still be downed.
As it is now, both were downed and your teammate has 10% health left in downed, you may say “Shoot gotta stomp/revive now before they get a rally”. If it was changed, the pressure is diminished and you’re allowed to care “less” about your teammate than you currently do. As there isn’t a threat of this 1v1 with 1 downed and 1 downed turning into 2v1 via rally.

If anything just makes a dude more independent as a unit because I don’t have the threat of successfully supporting teammates on the same level as current.
The game doesn’t need less teamwork.

Core difference, i’ll say it again.

Ressurect takes risk thought and strategy ALWAYS.

Rally can happen accidentally, does not always require risk.

In the situation you mention, there are still choices to be made without rally. It does not become suddenly meaningless to let your teammate die. Your teammate dieng is always bad….always. Rally might make certain situations more extreme (if our teammate geting stomped will rally the enemy team). but it is always bad.

There is plenty urgency without this added layer of annoyance. If you have a player down, and they have a player down…and its you vs another guy. Simple example.

You can
A) try to kill the enemy player who isnt downed if you think your stronger than them.
B ) Try to heal your teammate if your better at healing than harming the enemy.
C ) let him stomp your ally to stomp his ally
D ) Try to interrupt him from healing his ally to get attention towards you while your ally heals himself.
E ) Interrupt the enemy from downing your ally while throwing ranged damage at his ally, forcing him to make a decision.

I could go on and on…and on. Plus each profession and spec handle this situation differently WITHOUT rally. So no, rally is just another variable that isnt fun and can happen without motive to ressurect. It doesnt limit you from options or change urgency…it just changes what those options are in the moment, but your priority stays the same…kill enemy, dont let him kill ally or self. That will always be the goal in the end.

Rally only happens “by accident” in hotjoin/8v8, where there is too much going on.

In a tournament setting, everything takes teamwork. How did you manage to down and finish someone without trying at all or risking anything? In a team setting this doesn’t happen and it’s fine.

Sure, it can be frustrating at times to down someone and have them insta-res by another death. But it’s a core part of the gameplay.

Now if you want to talk about the conditions you rally under (a smaller and more reasonable dicussion), that might be worth it. I think sometimes they are too generous and let players rally from someone very far away. Perhaps they need to increase the amount of damage the downed player has to do to the enemy defeated play in order to rally.

Oareo.1604:

Rally only happens “by accident” in hotjoin/8v8, where there is too much going on.

In a tournament setting, everything takes teamwork. How did you manage to down and finish someone without trying at all or risking anything? In a team setting this doesn’t happen and it’s fine.

Sure, it can be frustrating at times to down someone and have them insta-res by another death. But it’s a core part of the gameplay.

Now if you want to talk about the conditions you rally under (a smaller and more reasonable dicussion), that might be worth it. I think sometimes they are too generous and let players rally from someone very far away. Perhaps they need to increase the amount of damage the downed player has to do to the enemy defeated play in order to rally.

Or just remove it. As i mentioned in earlier posts. It is not a fun mechanic. It does not create more dynamic play, it only shifts whats important in a situation to something else, but what options you have are always the same.

Heres a fun thought that i garantee is true. If rally was not in the game on launch. And this whole time you’ve been playing with out it or any thought of it…always knowing ressurecting always takes a risk or decision to heal your teammate. Then one day i put up a post on the forums saying “why shouldnt it just rez all your teammates who are downed in a fight when i kill someone!” it would be met (even by people advocating for rally today) by a big NO!

People would be like “wow you want MORE ressurecting? lawl, somebody cant handle the game they want EZ mode” “yea, no thanks that would make the game too easy, its annoying enough…what would be the point of speccing to ressurect/heal?” “backstab theif wants to replace gaurdians…plz”

This is what you would see, its not needed…its not a fun mechanic. Its just people become comfortable with things even when they’re toxic to the game play and they fight to keep it because they hate change. But i garantee you, if/when they put it in custom servers as an option to turn off, and people try it out. it will become very popular.

Zinwrath.2049:

ensoriki.5789:

The threat of rallying puts pressure on the other team, to make a choice between going for a stomp, going to revive, or playing the field.
Without rallying, there are less repercussions of letting a teammate die. As it is now, you have to consider the repercussions of going for a stomp and letting your downed mate be left unprotected which can trigger a rally if he is finished before you defeat the previous. It may be beneficial to juggle between offensively pressuring someone downed, and reviving to keep them alive.

If four people are fighting 2v2 and 1 goes down on both sides. The two standing members have to decide
A) fight each other revive C) stomp/attack downed D) Flee E) a combination of the other options.

Removing rally reduces the threat level. They can stomp your teammate, but the other person will still be downed.
As it is now, both were downed and your teammate has 10% health left in downed, you may say “Shoot gotta stomp/revive now before they get a rally”. If it was changed, the pressure is diminished and you’re allowed to care “less” about your teammate than you currently do. As there isn’t a threat of this 1v1 with 1 downed and 1 downed turning into 2v1 via rally.

If anything just makes a dude more independent as a unit because I don’t have the threat of successfully supporting teammates on the same level as current.
The game doesn’t need less teamwork.

Core difference, i’ll say it again.

Ressurect takes risk thought and strategy ALWAYS.

Rally can happen accidentally, does not always require risk.

In the situation you mention, there are still choices to be made without rally. It does not become suddenly meaningless to let your teammate die. Your teammate dieng is always bad….always. Rally might make certain situations more extreme (if our teammate geting stomped will rally the enemy team). but it is always bad.

There is plenty urgency without this added layer of annoyance. If you have a player down, and they have a player down…and its you vs another guy. Simple example.

You can
A) try to kill the enemy player who isnt downed if you think your stronger than them.
B ) Try to heal your teammate if your better at healing than harming the enemy.
C ) let him stomp your ally to stomp his ally
D ) Try to interrupt him from healing his ally to get attention towards you while your ally heals himself.
E ) Interrupt the enemy from downing your ally while throwing ranged damage at his ally, forcing him to make a decision.

I could go on and on…and on. Plus each profession and spec handle this situation differently WITHOUT rally. So no, rally is just another variable that isnt fun and can happen without motive to ressurect. It doesnt limit you from options or change urgency…it just changes what those options are in the moment, but your priority stays the same…kill enemy, dont let him kill ally or self. That will always be the goal in the end.

Never said there were no repercussions but lettuce look at your own scenario
C) is basically saying “ah kitten it” and letting your teammate die, because you take out the other and just go for a 1v1. C) does happen in the rare situation that they didn’t qualify for rally.

A) currently present in rally system
B) Happens in current system…
D) Happens in current system… I call it Mr.Pistol Whip.
E) Happens in current system, only that pressure is heightened because him range shooting your ally can cause a rally. So you really don’t want that to happen, because otherwise you can just break it down to cause option C) and just not care.

The situation where you give a kitten about C) is because the 5 pt kill will mean GG.
Outside of that? Nope. I see warrior + engi. I’ve got a Ranger down. I already Know I can take the warrior on from a previous fight. So meh eat a kitten ranger cus im gonna kill this engi and then drop kick the warrior.
Current system? “I can’t just ignore this kitten warrior he’s about to stomp”.

You say it isn’t fun, but it can often be exhilarating.

“Heres a fun thought that i garantee is true. If rally was not in the game on launch. And this whole time you’ve been playing with out it or any thought of it…always knowing ressurecting always takes a risk or decision to heal your teammate. Then one day i put up a post on the forums saying “why shouldnt it just rez all your teammates who are downed in a fight when i kill someone!” it would be met (even by people advocating for rally today) by a big NO!”

Change is usually met with resistance.
We’ve all played different games.
We know this change already.
What if’s mean little.
Not to mention that rally doesn’t currently revive everyone, you have to qualify for it. While the qualifications may be too lenient. They are a reality.

@ensoriki

You realize all you just did was agree with me and further prove my point.

Nope

Zinwrath.2049:

Oareo.1604:

Rally only happens “by accident” in hotjoin/8v8, where there is too much going on.

In a tournament setting, everything takes teamwork. How did you manage to down and finish someone without trying at all or risking anything? In a team setting this doesn’t happen and it’s fine.

Sure, it can be frustrating at times to down someone and have them insta-res by another death. But it’s a core part of the gameplay.

Now if you want to talk about the conditions you rally under (a smaller and more reasonable dicussion), that might be worth it. I think sometimes they are too generous and let players rally from someone very far away. Perhaps they need to increase the amount of damage the downed player has to do to the enemy defeated play in order to rally.

Or just remove it. As i mentioned in earlier posts. It is not a fun mechanic. It does not create more dynamic play, it only shifts whats important in a situation to something else, but what options you have are always the same.

Heres a fun thought that i garantee is true. If rally was not in the game on launch. And this whole time you’ve been playing with out it or any thought of it…always knowing ressurecting always takes a risk or decision to heal your teammate. Then one day i put up a post on the forums saying “why shouldnt it just rez all your teammates who are downed in a fight when i kill someone!” it would be met (even by people advocating for rally today) by a big NO!

People would be like “wow you want MORE ressurecting? lawl, somebody cant handle the game they want EZ mode” “yea, no thanks that would make the game too easy, its annoying enough…what would be the point of speccing to ressurect/heal?” “backstab theif wants to replace gaurdians…plz”

This is what you would see, its not needed…its not a fun mechanic. Its just people become comfortable with things even when they’re toxic to the game play and they fight to keep it because they hate change. But i garantee you, if/when they put it in custom servers as an option to turn off, and people try it out. it will become very popular.

That it isn’t fun is your opinion. The bleed-out states in games are something that I find enjoyable. It’s a last ditch shot at survival. It isn’t toxic to the gameplay in the least. It offers multiple paths to success. Do I revive my teammate directly? Do I try to down an enemy and go for a stomp? Do I just try to keep them off of him so he can heal himself? etc. Choice and consequence.

You are correct: if it hadn’t been in the game then people would be arguing against it. Why? The game wouldn’t be balanced around it. As it stands, the game is balanced around rally. If there were no rally, rezzes would likely be easier/faster to compensate.

I think down state is mostly ok. I’m fine with differences in down state as long as classes are balanced overall (ie. strengths in down state are matched by weaknesses elsewhere.)

I also think Rally is an ok mechanic -in theory-. It keeps the game moving, rather than someone being forced to stop and sit around rezzing, it gives the option to save your teammate via active offense. Passive Rezzing is still viable, so you have an interesting tradeoff between rezzing via offense or passively.

To me the big problem is how broad the rally mechanic is. A kill can create a huge and sudden shift in momentum, which can seem arbitrary and unfair. I think it would be better if it was more controlled and subtle.

ie. When you kill someone, it only rezzes ONE teammate. The closest one.

This makes the rally mechanic much more predictable. Rather than possibly an entire team or zerg getting rallied, it’s just one player, and it’s easy to determine who it will be.