Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

1. Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

There is definitely a need for immobilize clear.

So, in this iteration I don’t think Sigil of Battle and Sigil of Strength are equivalently powered. Similarly with the vulnerability ones. You should probably decide which power level you want sigils to be at. I’d say the lower/earlier ones? But that’d just be a guess based on what I feel 1-5% dmg modifier is worth. Speaking of which, I like the different options available for sources of passive +%s to damage.
Making the only way to increase condition damage be via might or duration sigils would be an interesting choice in some ways. It makes condition builds overall less bursty and cleansing more powerful, which are both generally seen as positives. Individual builds’ applications can be tweaked from there. It does leave Doom in the weird place of being the only damaging condi proc from sigils right now though.
Sigil of Generosity is interesting, but whether it’s worth the cooldown is dependent on it’s triggering conditions for me. If for example it was only to work on damaging conditions, say. Or say, when you gain 3 or 5 stacks of a damaging condi, if your next attack hits transfer all stacks of that damaging condi to your target it’d be… interesting. Balanced by stack number required, transfered stack limit, whether the attack needs to connect to cleanse, if it goes on cd if it misses or only after connecting. And yeah does it use your condi dmg or the opponent’s. And all that info would probably need to be transparent ingame.
What else, oh I like the idea of the 18sec cd swap sigils.

Had an idea about a sigil effect too that I thought I may as well post. No clue as to how powerful/useless it’d be. Your next attack after weapon swapping ignores any blind you are suffering from, and transfers any blind to your target on hit.

Evan Lesh.3295:

BlackBeard.2873:

These are looking a little bit better, but a few concerns:

1. For sigils that have longer CD’s, is there any idea on how this will work with engie and ele (or warrior with fast hands), who will be 50% less efficient taking these sigils. For instance, something like a ranger can put escape and revelation on one weapon, then greater nullification and something else on the other weapon, and get 4 procs over a 20s period. Ele and engie, meanwhile, would be stuck with just 2 procs. Likewise, other on-swap effects have less control for these two classes.

1. The longer cooldowns are simply because we like the effect, but are just too strong for classes that have frequent access to ‘swaps’ like engie and warr. You are right in that they have much less control. However, making every sigil viable on every class/build is probably an unrealistic goal.

Does this mean you try to avoid making more 18sec cooldown sigils?
Because i can already see more of the sigils getting longer cooldowns (but stronger effects) so in the end there are only a few sigils left for warriors..

I rather have lesser impact sigils with 9sec cooldown compared to 18sec with bigger impact.

Sigil of Greater Nullification
Your next attack after swapping to this weapon while in combat removes 2 boons from your target.
(Cooldown: 18 Seconds)

Make this sigil remove resistance first and at least make the cooldown 12 seconds long. That’s something I can live with.

It would be a very nice sigil for Elementalists as we don’t have any boon-removing skills ourselves and the healing meta isn’t helping either. We might actually feel like we’re doing something for once!

Why contemplate such a large change of direction? Class balance and matchmaking are the main issues. To do this adds a whole new set of variables… may as well go back to release and start over.

Actually, come to think of it.. I’d prefer that.

As was recently said of the US government: “Don’t mistake motion for progress.”

Evan Lesh.3295:

4 Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

How about this: Remove immobilize, but not chill or cripple. Give 2s of super speed. The superspeed will temporarily counteract cripple and chill’s movement speed deficit instead of completely negating them.

The downside is that if you use escape when not impaired, superspeed may be too strong.

Evan Lesh.3295:

BlackBeard.2873:

These are looking a little bit better, but a few concerns:

/snip

1. For sigils that have longer CD’s, is there any idea on how this will work with engie and ele (or warrior with fast hands), who will be 50% less efficient taking these sigils. For instance, something like a ranger can put escape and revelation on one weapon, then greater nullification and something else on the other weapon, and get 4 procs over a 20s period. Ele and engie, meanwhile, would be stuck with just 2 procs. Likewise, other on-swap effects have less control for these two classes.
   /snip

/snip

1. The longer cooldowns are simply because we like the effect, but are just too strong for classes that have frequent access to ‘swaps’ like engie and warr. You are right in that they have much less control. However, making every sigil viable on every class/build is probably an unrealistic goal.
   /snip

please also take into consideration that ele’s and engi’s only get to equip 2 sigils, while all other classes get to equip 4. there seems to be NO sigils designed specifically with ele and engi in mind, for all game modes. this would be a perfect time to make new sigils balanced around frequent swaps, (yes, fast hands warriors must be taken into consideration, too)

ALL sigils don’t need to be made viable for EVERY class/build out there, but ele’s and engi’s have less than half the variety of viability of the other classes: the on-hit/on-crit, BUT, all the others become less effective when swapping attunements / kits… essentially, a mesmer / warrior /etc swaps weapons and get a new set of sigils that have been better optimized to the new weapons, but an when an ele / engi swap elements / kits, they are stuck with sigils that are not optimized for the new element / kit.

with respect, a few new sigils should be made for ele’s / engi’s

edit: PS: examples could be sigils with weaker effects on swap due to the lower cooldowns, or maybe even sigils that alternate between 2 different effects.

another idea: new sigil SETS could be introduced, like how armour runes have bonuses for equipping multiple of the same rune set. a bacon defecient brainstorm example:

Superior Sigil of Rodgort (80):
1) on hit: apply 5s vulnerability (2s cd)
2) on swap: apply 1s burning (2s cd)

Exedore.6320:

Evan Lesh.3295:

4 Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

How about this: Remove immobilize, but not chill or cripple. Give 2s of super speed. The superspeed will temporarily counteract cripple and chill’s movement speed deficit instead of completely negating them.

The downside is that if you use escape when not impaired, superspeed may be too strong.

If this was implemented, hopefully it would only apply superspeed if you had chill/cripple on you. Otherwise, applying superspeed only when breaking immob would be ok-ish. Might be too strong though to do that.

Too bad lethargy got cut. Here i was all hyped up about the slow traits in the chrono line might actually see some play. Is there any chance you would add a slow related sigill/rune in the future?

Forgotten Legend.9281:

Evan Lesh.3295:

BlackBeard.2873:

These are looking a little bit better, but a few concerns:

/snip

1. For sigils that have longer CD’s, is there any idea on how this will work with engie and ele (or warrior with fast hands), who will be 50% less efficient taking these sigils. For instance, something like a ranger can put escape and revelation on one weapon, then greater nullification and something else on the other weapon, and get 4 procs over a 20s period. Ele and engie, meanwhile, would be stuck with just 2 procs. Likewise, other on-swap effects have less control for these two classes.
   /snip

/snip

1. The longer cooldowns are simply because we like the effect, but are just too strong for classes that have frequent access to ‘swaps’ like engie and warr. You are right in that they have much less control. However, making every sigil viable on every class/build is probably an unrealistic goal.
   /snip

please also take into consideration that ele’s and engi’s only get to equip 2 sigils, while all other classes get to equip 4. there seems to be NO sigils designed specifically with ele and engi in mind, for all game modes. this would be a perfect time to make new sigils balanced around frequent swaps, (yes, fast hands warriors must be taken into consideration, too)

ALL sigils don’t need to be made viable for EVERY class/build out there, but ele’s and engi’s have less than half the variety of viability of the other classes: the on-hit/on-crit, BUT, all the others become less effective when swapping attunements / kits… essentially, a mesmer / warrior /etc swaps weapons and get a new set of sigils that have been better optimized to the new weapons, but an when an ele / engi swap elements / kits, they are stuck with sigils that are not optimized for the new element / kit.

with respect, a few new sigils should be made for ele’s / engi’s

edit: PS: examples could be sigils with weaker effects on swap due to the lower cooldowns, or maybe even sigils that alternate between 2 different effects.

another idea: new sigil SETS could be introduced, like how armour runes have bonuses for equipping multiple of the same rune set. a bacon defecient brainstorm example:

Superior Sigil of Rodgort (80):
1) on hit: apply 5s vulnerability (2s cd)
2) on swap: apply 1s burning (2s cd)

This idea, is actually amazing. But this needs to be in all game modes, not just PvP.

We have Rune sets, so sigil sets could definitely be a good addition. Some following your basis of ‘On hit + On Swap’ others utilizing ‘+X% increase + -X% Reduced’.

This could work so well.

I dont think a Sigil that removes all soft CC on swap is a good idea, most classes got a reduce in soft cc duration in the traits, and soft cc should stay a good way to counter certain classes like warrir to a degree. Removing all chills, imobs and cripples with a simple weaponswap is too strong, given how relatively rare chills and immobs can be applied. Removing immobs only would be a better idea because it can cause some really unfun moments when youre in a long duration immob without a way of condi clear. This would devalue Soft cc even more then gapclosers, resistance and the traitlines would.

I also would like a “greater Sigil of Agility” with 3 sec superspeed and 3 sec quickness on a 18 sec cooldown, this could create some better bursts.

Also a “Sigil of Vanishing” that provides a short duration stealth on weaponswap? Would help some classes that dont have acces to stealth to escape or to reposition themselfs in teamfights.

My personal favourite would be Profession Specific Sigils to further customize each profession, but i guess thats off the table.

Evan Lesh.3295:

4. Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

I think the current effect is for the best right now or at least the Immobilize portion I feel is more important than the other part. One of the big issues you will face as a side point character that receives some sort of gank is the actual escape and most of the time clearing the Immobs/Chills/Cripples and dealing with interrupts are actually the more important part to living rather than stuns or pure damage output. For something like a druid or engi this sigil fits that playstyle really well but other classes like mesmer and warrior will not make much use of it. Even for engi this sigil probly can’t be used because you will waste it at random times since you can’t put it on a secondary set to save it. For other characters it could see use just from the prevalence of Entangle/Ancient Seeds/Roots and the difficulty that the classes have dealing with it (Mainly necro and ranger ironically).

Evan Lesh.3295:

We will take more looks at the numbers. It could be that 20% is fine with a new set of available sigils.

For the numbers on the sigils 20% is probably ok but I wouldn’t go any lower. People still don’t super prioritize condi duration even now where you will see a warrior choose Rabid over Wanderer’s despite the massive theoretical DPS gain simply because condis will be removed before their full duration or the duration isn’t even necessary to kill people. The main thing to watch out for with these sigils is the possible unintended buffs you get with the addition of torment and confusion sigils. While cover condis and burst/cover condi weapon swap sigils are nice mesmers and condi revs have never been balanced around the fact that confusion and torment could last 20-25% longer and those condis are commonly counterplayed by timing them out.

Evan Lesh.3295:

1. Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

Yes! Please do that. Immobilize already feels weak, a sigil to get rid of it will actually make immobs useless.

If you were to bring in the On Interrupt sigils, I think Revelation might work much better there. Imagine the situation as a thief when you are low health, and use stealth to escape, now do you risk healing and getting interrupted by a scrappers Thunderclap, or do you just run away and hope nobody hits you in the meantime? I think it would bring much better counterplay and not be too powerful at the same time.

But at this point, since there’s been no mention of On Interrupt sigils, I’m not too hopeful we’ll be getting them any time soon.

Again, is there any chance you guys are considering adding in some sort of viable support sigil?

Passive
Sigil of Vampirism
Increase Life Siphon Damage: 50%

Would be cool to see some tank Sigils like: “Take 10% less damage from targets less than 300 distance away.” Or “Take 15% less damage from targets while your health is below 25%.”
Of cause the numbers are just an example and might not be balanced.

I’m concerned about the lack of on crit sigils. My Druid needs sigil of earth in order to exist.

I would rather see fewer sigils that have a higher impact as it is on live it’s not about which sigils is best for your build/playstyle it’s which sigils are the least cost effective; (cost being sigil slots) air, strength, force and accuracy are always picked because they are effective with 90+% of builds.
other sigils either sound good but are very low impact (sigil of earth, generosity etc.) situational, (sigil of rage on a PP thief MY HANDS ARE GATLINGS!) or flatly bad. (luck, celerity etc.)

Having a small pool of sigils say 10-15 that have very strong effects like 3% lifesteal or a 1.5s immobilize after swap, Steal a boon from up to 5 targets on swap, gain 3% damage reduction for every boon on your opponent, increase the duration of existing conditions on your foe by 0.5s on crit.

These are rough examples but they have very clear will/wont work with my build theme which will help new or inexperienced players make decent choices and having a smaller pool doesn’t mean less choice it means more real choice.

just my 2 cents

The main goals of these changes are really good and I like this rework but a few things I’d add:

* There could be new sigils that trigger upon a certain successful combo finisher. If they are not used in a field they don’t work.
For example:
Sigil of Blasting: upon successfully activating a blast combo, you strip Stability from enemies in a small radius. 20s CD
Sigil of Projectiles: upon successfully executing a projectile finisher gain 5s of Might. No CD
Sigil of Leaping: for 3s after a successful leap combo: On your next hit, cause 10 stacks of Vulnerability. 20s CD
Sigil of Whirls: upon successfully executing a whirl finisher gain 2s of Fury. No CD.

* Rune of Agility - increase quickness duration to 1,25s(maybe 1.5s) quickness. This way you could hit twice on slower weapons before quickness wears off.

* Passive +dmg% sigils: The ideas to add play is nice, although the numbers could be tuned up. +5%dmg vs <50% is even worse than the previous 5% at all time which had no place in the PvP meta.
All 5% sigils should be increased to 7-8% and go from there. For PvE purposes it should be lower but in PvP with the loss of proc sigils(Air,Fire, Blood) It would be a huge nerf since those proc sigils were guaranteed to deal damage between all the dodges, blocks, blinds, etc, while the dmg%s are prefferred for PvE.
The ones giving 1% could give 1.2% if possible. For PvE version it could stay 1% of course. Or better yet, remove them coz they don’t affect gameplay like other sigils.
* There is no dedicated power on-hit sigil on this list and I’m glad, although it is a huge nerf for burst characters and there should be an non-weapon sap burst option. The question is why is there Sigil of Strength for hybrid builds and Frailty for condi builds(used for a cover condi and dmg%)? I think vulnerability should come in stacks of 4 or more with higher cd and shorter duration.
* Sigil of Paralyzation
+30% Stun duration -> It’s kind of arbitrary that it only affects "stuns". Can’t it affect knockdowns, launches, and unique effects like Stoned(basi venom) but be lowered to ~20%.
* Sigil of Revelation: awesome idea! However, it should cause 1s of reveal(currently 0.25s) so people won’t be able to just reapply stealth straight away.
* Sigil of Generosity: 15s CD - this is high for a random condition. Should lower it to 12s and then adjust it if needed.
* Sigil of Stagnation
Cripple nearby foes when swapping to this weapon while in combat (3 Seconds, 240 Radius). -> I suggest to make it also strip swiftness to be worthwhile.
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
* As ppl have pointed out condi duration sigils shouldn’t all be 25%. Burn in particular should be lower, ~15%.
* These 2 sigils are still very random, I’d prefer them removing a specific group of condis/boons. They are also considered weak sigils compared to on-swap sigils which stay unaltered in strength.

Sigil of Purity
On hit: Remove a Condition -> Could be split into 2 sigils: remove a damaging condition. And remove a hindering condition: slow/chill/cripple/blind/weakness/slow/immob (vulnerability could or could not be added here, I’d rather not)
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

Sigil of Nullification
On hit: Remove a Boon -> Split into 2 versions: Remove a random offensive boon(might/fury/quickness/retaliation). Remove a random defensive boon(protection/regen/vigor/aegis/resistance/stability)
(Cooldown: 10 Seconds)

* A rune rework would be also great where you can choose stats for a rune effect
This would mean that u don’t have to take condition damage if you pick rune of the Thief for example(+10% dmg from behind)

Borando.6759:

Would be cool to see some tank Sigils like: “Take 10% less damage from targets less than 300 distance away.” Or “Take 15% less damage from targets while your health is below 25%.”
Of cause the numbers are just an example and might not be balanced.

They said this will ship with sustain nerfs as well, so the chances of them adding in more sustain through tank sigils is about 0.

Some of these are actually really cool. Times like this I wish we had a PTR for mass data instead of just arm chairing it via the forums.

“Escape” can be to much of a get out of jail free card especially for already existing mobility builds.

“Revelation” and “nullification” on the other hand offer counter play to builds when yours might’ve been incapable of handeling certain matchups. I love this.

Can’t you give hydromacy/geomancy a small nerf instead of removing them? Both are very cool sigils. …

Likewise, I want Sigil of Earth back :(

Why do we only have 1 On Hit condition sigil?

The sigil changes we want are to not have to constantly get more every time we want to try a different build. We could care less what they do since right now we can only use a few of them because of the obscene cost of trying anything off-meta. Let us change them freely so we can actually experiment with them instead of them being an anchor that makes us reluctant to ever change anything about our equipment other than the skin.

I realize this is about PVP, but PVP changes like this tend to end up in PVE later, and without addressing the larger issue these changes won’t do any good in that area.

This is gonna come off as offensive, but there’s really no other way to say it: Have you guys considered balancing the game instead of just removing content for no apparent reason?

Like when you guys mentioned you wanted feedback on sigils, I assumed that meant you were going to nerf overpowered sigils and buff underpowered sigils based on player feedback, and maybe even add in a few requested sigils. I didn’t think you were just going to remove the majority of sigils that you apparently can’t be bothered to balance.

Fashion Mage.3712:

This is gonna come off as offensive, but there’s really no other way to say it: Have you guys considered balancing the game instead of just removing content for no apparent reason?

Like when you guys mentioned you wanted feedback on sigils, I assumed that meant you were going to nerf overpowered sigils and buff underpowered sigils based on player feedback, and maybe even add in a few requested sigils. I didn’t think you were just going to remove the majority of sigils that you apparently can’t be bothered to balance.

I don’t have any issue with reducing the number. There are TONS of sigils that will NEVER be used by anyone. Getting rid of cruft is not a bad thing if it leads to the remainder being better. But without the system changes re-changing, it will all be worthless when these propagate down to PVE.

SPvP is dying around you, and you would rather talk about sigils… smh

Fashion Mage.3712:

This is gonna come off as offensive, but there’s really no other way to say it: Have you guys considered balancing the game instead of just removing content for no apparent reason?

PvP team is different from profession balance team.

The PvP is trying to reduce overall damage by removing sigils which are too strong. They’re also culling useless or near useless sigils. If they instead kept overpowered sigils at reduced numbers, they would barely be useful – like a sigil of air which does 200 damage or less.

Feedback : Thank you for sharing your balancing intent, this is a step forward for communication with the community! However, I wish to restate that the preview of these changes should be moved to the “General” forum for public review, as these changes will undoubtedly, based upon past precedence, also be applied to the other game modes upon release or in the future.

All of the V2 changes look good and balanced, in my opinion, for a playtest. Again, please only place these changes into sPvP at first and change them as needed before moving these changes to PvE and WvW.

Below are exceptions that I feel need individual discussion:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Passive

Sigil of Compounding
Deal 1% extra damage per condition on your foe.

Sigil of Exploitation
Deal 5% extra damage to targets below 50% health.

Sigil of Opportunity
Deal 5% extra damage to movement-impaired foes.

Sigil of Punishment
Deal 1% extra damage per boon on your foe.

Sigil of Separation
Deal 5% extra damage to targets more than 500 distance away.

Sigil of Compounding : Sigil of Compounding would be a staple choice in PvE and WvW, it should not be introduced into such game modes. Consider having a 5% bonus cap. The bonus should only apply to physical damage, not condition damage.

Sigil of Punishment : This would likely be a default sigil choice, thus harming build diversity. The prevalence of boons in sPvP and WvW would make this sigil a must have for those gametypes. Ironically, it would be useless in PvE. Again, consider a 5% bonus cap.

Sigil of Exploitation : Thematic and situational. Would always be useful after a certain point. Would be a very powerful option, perhaps too powerful, but it might be balanced. Play test with the public and watch closely. My recommendation, however, is that this is too useful and qualifies as free damage.

Sigil of Opportunity : 5% free damage in PvE. Usually free damage in PvP and WvW due to the high accessibility of all classes to maintain movement conditions on foes. A no-brainer for Chill-focused Reapers. I consider this free damage; as such it should be scrapped.

Sigil of Separation : NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR ANY GAME MODE! This is free damage for players who wish to fight with low risk. This promotes ranged combat and punishes melee fighters, who already take a large risk, when compared to ranged players, by closing the distance with foes, especially since there is no similar Sigil proposed for targets under 500 distance and note that this is not a recommendation for such a sigil. No, No, No, No, NO!

Again, thank you for sharing a preview of your intentions for this balance pass.

huge nerf to zerkers,
all of my characters are zerkers…

i get that you wanted to remove RNG so you scrapped Fire/air, i’m not happy about that, but i get it.

but why’d you also remove Force and Accuracy?!
(and then replace the constant 7% damage bonus of force with lame conditional 5% sigils…)

Fashion Mage.3712:

This is gonna come off as offensive, but there’s really no other way to say it: Have you guys considered balancing the game instead of just removing content for no apparent reason?

Like when you guys mentioned you wanted feedback on sigils, I assumed that meant you were going to nerf overpowered sigils and buff underpowered sigils based on player feedback, and maybe even add in a few requested sigils. I didn’t think you were just going to remove the majority of sigils that you apparently can’t be bothered to balance.

First, sigils are not “content”. Secondly, reducing the number of sigils will make balancing the existing sigils against each other easier. And like others said, this is a different team from the balance team.

Liewec.2896:

but why’d you also remove Force and Accuracy?!
(and then replace the constant 7% damage bonus of force with lame conditional 5% sigils…)

Force was always 5%

Exedore.6320:

PvP team is different from profession balance team.

The PvP is trying to reduce overall damage by removing sigils which are too strong. They’re also culling useless or near useless sigils. If they instead kept overpowered sigils at reduced numbers, they would barely be useful – like a sigil of air which does 200 damage or less.

I can understand removing sigils that will essentially never be useful in PvP like most on-kill sigils or sigils like Sigil of Luck. What I can’t agree with is the removal of sigils like Sigil of Rage or Sigil of Water, because I’m sure they can function in some form as long as they’re actually tuned properly. If something is glaringly underpowered or overpowered, the solution is to buff, nerf, or rework it appropriately. Just removing options because people can’t be bothered to even attempt to balance them is extremely lazy and will certainly lead to a duller game, even if it is technically more balanced. If this was about removing underused utilities for each class, I doubt people would be saying the same thing.

As for sigil of air, there’s always a middle ground for tuning something that’s overpowered or underpowered. If 200 is too low, and (for example) if 600 is too high, then the obvious conclusion is to balance the sigil between those two values.

OriOri.8724:

First, sigils are not “content”. Secondly, reducing the number of sigils will make balancing the existing sigils against each other easier. And like others said, this is a different team from the balance team.

Call it whatever you want and save the pointless semantics.
A different team handling this doesn’t excuse them from making questionable decisions in the name of balance.

Shaman.2034:

omgdracula.6345:

choovanski.5462:

1/4 sec reveal will mean stealth gyro will re-stealth you.

If it is only 1/4 pretty much any stealth with restealth you. Since AFAIK the lowest duration stealth is 3s.

Seems to be two very different ideas on how it works which is why I think we would all like clarity from Evan.

You forgot the part where Revealed removes all stealth from the affected player.

This is key and fundamental to how it can be used. On a thief in particular stacking stealth burns INI. One use of this can mean all of those stacks removed at once which in essence made all of that INI expended a waste.

The thief that stacks stealth will have to be much more deliberate about doing so. If they stacked it once the loss of that INI on an instant reveal might be one worth taking, but if they stacked 4 times it might well not be worth that INI.

That on a 1/4 second reveal the theif can just reapply stealth again is not material. The INI is gone and or to apply that stealth again will require more INI or a utility skill.

For other classes (outide gryo with engineer) most stealth skills are on a cooldown meaning it hader just to restealth once revealed. That 1/4 second might mean no more stealth until that Cooldown runs its course.

For en engineer sneak Gyro works on a 3 second interval meaning that the one second revealed is in fact 3 seconds.

OriOri.8724:

Borando.6759:

Would be cool to see some tank Sigils like: “Take 10% less damage from targets less than 300 distance away.” Or “Take 15% less damage from targets while your health is below 25%.”
Of cause the numbers are just an example and might not be balanced.

They said this will ship with sustain nerfs as well, so the chances of them adding in more sustain through tank sigils is about 0.

Why do they nerf sustain? If you ask me, it feels like DPS is the most important thing. If possible the meta uses even heal skills to do more DPS (like Power PS heal, refreshing his burst.)

So is this spvp only or for every thing?

Jski.6180:

So is this spvp only or for every thing?

PvP only right now.

Exedore.6320:

Jski.6180:

So is this spvp only or for every thing?

PvP only right now.

Meh a lot of the proposed sigil would be nice for wvw. Ghost thf would be nearly hard counter with the revil one something that is badly needed for wvw.

The on swap sigil and on hit may need more control over when there effect trigger. I would love to see a system where you can chose to have the effect trigger when you want.

Sigil of Frailty: either remove it or make it cause vulnerability in stacks of 4 with a higher CD and shorter duration. Currently it is just a cover condition for condi classes.
for example:

• On hit Cause 4 stacks of vulnerability for 3s. 5s CD

Evan Lesh.3295:

BlackBeard.2873:

These are looking a little bit better, but a few concerns:

1. Purity, cleansing, and escape: This is a LOT of condition cleansing available. It is conceivable to remove up to 4 conditions from a single swap (slotting cleansing + escape) which really helps builds that might struggle with condis (something like druid will put these super-defensive sigils on their “now I just spam defensive evades” weapon set) and hurt condition builds who are already getting some of their free proc-bursts reduced?

1. Escape was changed from only cleansing immobilize because it felt weak, but perhaps it could do something like only cleanse cripple/chill?

Ancient seeds is the root of all problems.

[suggestion: pvp sigil system rework]
I’m not here to say how the pvp rune system must work, I’m only here to share my thoughts.

[on hit/sigil for weapon] limit:2 per weapon, 1 per weapon skill
Why not make some specific sigil work for single moves? Not random at all.
With a separate version for thief where 3 initiative = 5 sec, 4 initiative = 10 sec, 5 initiative = 15 sec, 6 initiative = 20 sec we can add X effect to the selected weapon’s move.

Ex.
with a cd => 5 sec you apply 1 stack of vulnerability/8s
with a cd => 5 sec you gain 1 stack of might/8s
..
with a cd => 10 sec you apply 1 stack of poison/5s
with a cd => 10 sec you gain 1 stack of regeneration/5s
..
with a cd => 15 sec you apply cripple/5s
with a cd => 15 sec you gain swiftness/5s
..
with a cd => 20 sec you apply chill/5s
with a cd => 20 sec you gain stability/5s
..

[passive sigil/lesser rune] limit:1
Passive sigils give you a small benefit as long you hold the interested weapon, why not make passive sigils work like a lesser version of runes?

Ex.
with this passive sigil you can run 15% faster
with this passive sigil your endurance regen is 10% faster
..

[on swap/special action sigil]limit:1
The more active sigil right now is the on swap type, that force you to switch weapon to gain a benefit. Why should you be forced to change weapon to obtain such effect? I’m not saying that we can’t use a double set of the same weapon, but why not make the on swap effect activable by the special action button, that let you track when the ability is off CD and make the weapon swap go into lesser recharge, like 5 sec?

Ex.
A druid is turned blue and you know it’ll go into stealth soon, so you go on the druid and with your special action button you are ready to punish the player with the new reveal sigil.
You are a thief, so you’re happy to make the druid exit from stealth without being forced swapping to shortbow.

25% bonus condi duration is the worst thing I could imagine. Why do you really need to change sigils? This all seems like a bad idea.

Thanks, Evan, for listening to feedback. Here are my thoughts:
- Strength >> Battle; seems like going back to a 3s ICD for Strength would be closer to balance
- Removing all access to Chill via sigil seems like an over-reaction. Chill is useful both as an offensive and defensive option and almost equally usable for condi vs power builds
- Agree with some other posters … +25% on damaging condis may be too much, but +25% (or more) on say Vul is fine
- Sad to see on crit sigils go (and I’m a condi player w/ just base precision!); they are great for flavor/theme (a crit doing something extra just kinda makes sense); and provides a good risk/reward for those wanting to go more aggressive at the expense of defense
- An on swap, next X (3?) attacks are unblockable sigil makes a lot of sense
- No need to remove the healing sigils; they weren’t OP or anything; and giving players a defensive option is totally fair

I’m liking the look of this more than V1 for sure, though I have some questions.

1. I think some classes (especially ele, engi, druid) might get too tanky with all of the burst damage from sigils removed, I hope this is looked into as no one wants another S1 style bunker meta or anything close to it. Is this getting looked into? Any changes because of this or response on this?

2. Why not have some on-crit sigils? With their internal random chance removed they’re more consistent and always have been a solid reason to build for precision. They don’t necessarily have to be burst damage like air/fire but they could provide slightly more powerful procs than regular on-hits.
For example, Sigil of Nullification – On hit: Remove a boon → (on crit version) Sigil of Corruption – On critical: Corrupt a boon.

BeLZedaR.4790:

I’m liking the look of this more than V1 for sure, though I have some questions.

1. I think some classes (especially ele, engi, druid) might get too tanky with all of the burst damage from sigils removed, I hope this is looked into as no one wants another S1 style bunker meta or anything close to it. Is this getting looked into? Any changes because of this or response on this?

2. Why not have some on-crit sigils? With their internal random chance removed they’re more consistent and always have been a solid reason to build for precision. They don’t necessarily have to be burst damage like air/fire but they could provide slightly more powerful procs than regular on-hits.
For example, Sigil of Nullification – On hit: Remove a boon -> (on crit version) Sigil of Corruption – On critical: Corrupt a boon.

Take a look at this post by Cal in the original thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/2#post6520480

They are going to be nerfing sustain when this goes live.

Sort of on the topic of why not on-crit sigils, I’m curious about what the “iterative design” type end results will be from this sigil cull. I’d like to see more proc types and more effects added in the future but at the same time it is nice to try getting back to basics a bit first, especially if it helps zero in on class balance issues in the process and shakes up the meta a bit.

Taking a simplistic view (probably making any dev groan with the naivety of it haha!), if they get a nice, solid mix of “on swap” effects that are generally agreed to be relatively equal in power (and for example set that effect strength to a coefficient value of 1), they could hopefully aim to introduce other effect proc methods by just varying the coefficient values and the cooldowns. Like for example:

On swap (effect strength 1.0, 9s cd)
On hit (effect strength 0.25-0.3, 3s cd) (meaning perfectly timed swaps result in slightly more powerful overall effects, with as listed more bursty design)
On crit (effect strength 0.35-0.4, 3s cd) (slightly more powerful due to relying on precision but hopefully not enough to make it mandatory)

And then they could try experimenting with other procs as suggested from there, like:
On heal skill (effect strength 1.0, 10s cd)
On successful whirl combo finisher (effect strength 0.2 per bolt, 10s cd)
On successful blast combo finisher (effect strength 0.5 aoe, 10s cd)
On successful leap combo finisher (effect strength 1.1-1.2, slightly stronger single target than the swap effect for needing the field in place to trigger, 10s cd)
On applied field (effect strength 0.25-0.3 per ally/enemy, shouldn’t require a finisher to achieve, 10s cd)

And then you could have it so after selecting the proc method for your sigil and being presented with the list of effects, you could increase the cooldown timer on your selected sigil by whatever increment to make the more powerful effects selectable (eg. increasing the “on swap” sigil cooldown to 18s to let you select the effects deemed too powerful for 9s)

Anyway, just a bit of late night rambling from an insomniac.

I don’t mind the innate power nerfs, as this kind of standardizes power. Geo and Hydro being removed is good too, but I kind of feel like condi’s innate strengths will outshine power long term because of these changes.

things like sigil of escape help by bassing cover conditions sure, but I kind of feel like purity should clear 2, and generosity c/d be reduced to 10.

As an elementalist that has currently left the game because of the lack of build variety and the lack of skill/traits balance, you are removing the sigils that I used to play.

Can’t Anet come up with more interesting and original stuff? GW2 needs an electroshock of good ideas right now: new skills, new traits, balance that reward skillplay on all classes, new fields, new viable VARIETY, etc. If your intent is to make sigils more relevant this won’t work.

Anyway not addressing the issues with the elementalist class is one way of making sure that I won’t ever come back.

I thought this was PVP not PvE, why is there so many 5% more damage sigils?

Does anyone actually use Sigil of Force in PvP?

I think this list is better. Evan but could the sigil of accuracy stay. I don’t Always use meta builds and sometimes the sigil of accuray offers options for non meta builds that have insufficent accuray due to amulet choices, it would alow the use of without then taking a sigil just for the precision. Since admittely most if not all of non meta builds are less versatile then thier meta variant removing sigil options would hurt more then not then on a meta build.