Guild Wars 2

Am I missing something or is this still overall a big boost to condi builds and a nerf to power builds? I get that there is some RNG involved in on crit sigils, but currently one of the only things that really distinguishes Precision from Power is the ability to trigger powerful On Crit sigils, otherwise Power is almost universally better in terms of DPS.

Also, myself and a lot of players are fine with the way sigils work right now… it would be cool to see some new sigils added, but the existing ones shouln’t be scrapped. PvP is cookie cutter enough as it is, and Sigils should have powerful effects that have synergy with particular builds… we don’t want to see nerfs given out to cherry-picked sustain options of specific classes to compensate for weaker (and therefore less exciting to choose when constructing a build) sigils. As a Power build player I don’t see a single sigil listed here that makes me excited to lose current options and put a new one in as part of optimizing my build.

One of the goals mentioned in the first sigil post of “We heavily reduced the available options” is the opposite of what makes PvP fun. Please leave as many options as possible in case some enable cool niche builds and to give as many fun ways to optimize builds as possible rather than leaving players with a sense of “I guess I’ll choose this sigil because it is the least bad of the weak available options.”

The change is like this. A large downgrade of options and power in sigils. Shure this leads to more balance again scrapping diversity. I don´t know who is making desicions but diversity is the main key for long term exitement. Games without options can be fun for two days then i discard them.

Yes, but that diversity should come from your class skills and traits, not from what sigil you want on the same build you’ve been running for close to a year

this is what i agree so i am mixed on this. On one side sigils add diffrence on the other side the class should define your playstyle. So as long as sigils are balaced and enough to adapt to all builds it´s fine. But there should be options for both damage types, utility, healing and defence sigils. Just not some you will always take like air which does realy large damage. And here might be the point. Just tuning down a few might also do the job.
Booring sigils that don´t have a clearly noticeable effect would be bad as OP ones.

I mostly agree with you, but when I see someone cry about how sigils will remove build diversity, I feel the need to point out that true build diversity should be coming from the class itself, and truly balanced classes would be fine for build diversity even with a small amount of sigils to choose from. And I will keep pointing it out until the Anet balance team takes notice.

I love this proposal though, and am excited to see it implemented.

Psilence.2859:

Am I missing something or is this still overall a big boost to condi builds and a nerf to power builds?

It’s a nerf to both. Condi in PvP is about application not duration, and the changes removed all but one condi applying sigil. The only builds that ever really cared about duration sigils are burn builds, but burn duration sigil already exists.

For example it won’t be possible for skullgrinder to apply 6 unique condis on a single hit anymore with the current sigil proposal.

The only condi class that might benefit from the change is mesmers, but we will have to see.

Crinn.7864:

Psilence.2859:

Am I missing something or is this still overall a big boost to condi builds and a nerf to power builds?

It’s a nerf to both. Condi in PvP is about application not duration, and the changes removed all but one condi applying sigil. The only builds that ever really cared about duration sigils are burn builds, but burn duration sigil already exists.

For example it won’t be possible for skullgrinder to apply 6 unique condis on a single hit anymore with the current sigil proposal.

The only condi class that might benefit from the change is mesmers, but we will have to see.

And this was exactly the problem. No single skill should be applying that many condis at a time unless its a mass corrupt or a well timed epi bomb (aka they aren’t directly applying conditions, just moving them around). its a good thing that Anet are removing the sigils that apply damaging conditions, i only wish that they would remove all sigils that apply a condition.

Heres my proposal version V2.Orpheal how I would find that list better, including some new Sigils and Sigil Types – beginning with Attribute Sigils

Attribute Bonus Attribute Sigils don’t stack
(Minor, Major, Superior, Ascended, Legendary)

Sigil of Accuracy
Increases Critical Hit Rate by +4/5/7/9/9% (Criticals look flashier on Legendary)

Sigil of Bursting
Increases Condition Damage by +3/4/5/6/6% (Visual Conditions like Burning are more impressive with this)

Sigil of Force
Increases Damage by +3/4/5/6/6% (Changes on Legendary the visual effect of stuns, knockdowns and launches to make them look more powerful)

Sigil of Malice
Increases Condition Durations by +3/4/5/6/6% (Gain a Malicious Aura with this Legendary Sigil when you let foes suffer on conditions in combat)

Sigil of Transference
Increases Outgoing Healing Effectivness by +3/4/5/6/6% (Your outgoing heals receiving a sparkling mystical glimmer effect to make them look more effective and powerful on legendary)

Sigil of Health
Increases Max Health by +1000/1500/2500/3000/3000 Health (Gain a Vigorous Aura, while having Full Health on Legendary)

Sigil of Stamina
Increases Endurance Regen by +4/5/7/10/10% (You look like having permanently Swiftness, the Swiftness Boon will look more impressive on you now with this Legendary)

Sigil of Fitness
Increases Endurance Regen (Same as above, so if you use both, you can get together this way +20% faster Endurance Regen max)

Sigil of Defense
Reduces incoming Damage by 3/4/5/6/6% (You look like having permanently Protection, the Protection Boon will look more impressive on you with this Legendary)

Sigil of Wilderness
Increases Critical Damage by +3/4/5/6/6% Damage (Critical Hits let your Character roar wildly with this Legendary)

Sigil of Miracles
Increases Boon Durations by +3/4/5/6/6% (Gain a Blessed Aura while having Boons on you with this Legendary)

Sigil of Intensity
Increases the Intensity of your Boons by +4/5/7/10/10% (Your Character gains an Angelic Feather Movement Aura while having Boons and running around with this Legendary)
So a Might Boon with 10% more Intensity from this will increase Power by 33 Points instead of 30 per Stack.

Sigil of Wisdom
Reduces incoming Condition Durations by 5/6/7/10/10% (Condition Removals will look now more effectful for you with this Legendary

OriOri.8724:

Crinn.7864:

Psilence.2859:

Am I missing something or is this still overall a big boost to condi builds and a nerf to power builds?

It’s a nerf to both. Condi in PvP is about application not duration, and the changes removed all but one condi applying sigil. The only builds that ever really cared about duration sigils are burn builds, but burn duration sigil already exists.

For example it won’t be possible for skullgrinder to apply 6 unique condis on a single hit anymore with the current sigil proposal.

The only condi class that might benefit from the change is mesmers, but we will have to see.

And this was exactly the problem. No single skill should be applying that many condis at a time unless its a mass corrupt or a well timed epi bomb (aka they aren’t directly applying conditions, just moving them around). its a good thing that Anet are removing the sigils that apply damaging conditions, i only wish that they would remove all sigils that apply a condition.

Thank you! The current meta is for ‘normal damage’ warriors to take mace for this very reason. The condi is just THAT strong that you choose a condi weapon over Axe in a ‘normal damage’ build.

Also, Orpheal, what is this mean: 4/5/7/9/9%?

Orpheal.8263:

Sigil of Intensity
Increases the Intensity of your Boons by +4/5/7/10/10% (Your Character gains an Angelic Feather Movement Aura while having Boons and running around with this Legendary)
So a Might Boon with 10% more Intensity from this will increase Power by 39 Points instead of 35 per Stack.

Might is 30 per stack btw. You will gonna have to clarify the rest of your post as well. What are the numbers? Are these for PvE, as in minor, major, superior AND legendary sigils?

Ovark.2514:

OriOri.8724:

Crinn.7864:

Psilence.2859:

Am I missing something or is this still overall a big boost to condi builds and a nerf to power builds?

It’s a nerf to both. Condi in PvP is about application not duration, and the changes removed all but one condi applying sigil. The only builds that ever really cared about duration sigils are burn builds, but burn duration sigil already exists.

For example it won’t be possible for skullgrinder to apply 6 unique condis on a single hit anymore with the current sigil proposal.

The only condi class that might benefit from the change is mesmers, but we will have to see.

And this was exactly the problem. No single skill should be applying that many condis at a time unless its a mass corrupt or a well timed epi bomb (aka they aren’t directly applying conditions, just moving them around). its a good thing that Anet are removing the sigils that apply damaging conditions, i only wish that they would remove all sigils that apply a condition.

Thank you! The current meta is for ‘normal damage’ warriors to take mace for this very reason. The condi is just THAT strong that you choose a condi weapon over Axe in a ‘normal damage’ build.

Also, Orpheal, what is this mean: 4/5/7/9/9%?

nah, mace does half the power dmg of axe. you take the mace for cc and the block. it’s basic skills are much more useful than those on axe.

And here I thought, this example couldn’t have been obvious enough xD LOL

I want Minor/Major/Superior/Ascended & Legendary Sigils.

So for what could potentially then a number listing like 4/5/7/9/9% stand for?

hmmm? hmmmmmmm?? Very difficult ^^ !! 3 times you may guess xD

@ Yannir:

oh ya, my mistake, 30 naturally, so with my intented suggestion then would a more intensified Might Boon give you per Stack then 33 Points of Power per Stack instead of 30 then

Next Sigil Type – Duration Bonus

All removed and reworked into Class Traits to strengthen the impactfulness of the Traits that affect conditions of the classes and to improve certain condition aspects for for specific Classes. Thats another 8 obsolete Sigils that can make free space for 8 better new Sigils in the other categories. This, or they are merged into the next Category. See for that the first example.

Next Sigil Type – Chance on Hit (with Duration Bonus)

Sigil of Frailty – Gain a chance of 20/30/40/50/50% to inflict on hit Vulnerabilities for 5 Seconds (ICD 1s) Increases also the Duration of Vulnerability by 10/15/20/25/25% (when merged) (You have in Combat a Perilish Aura on your hands with this Legendary)

Sigil of Ice
Gain a chance of 10/15/20/25/25% to inflict on hit Chill for 2 Seconds (ICD 8s) Increases also the Duration of Chill by 10/15/20/25/25% (when merged) (You have in Combat a Chilling Aura on your hands with this Legendary)

Sigil of Water
Gain a Chance of 15/20/25/30/30% to Heal nearby Allies. ICD varies from 7/5/4/3/3 seconds. Increases also the Durations of Regenerations by 10/15/20/25/25% (You have a Healing Aura on your Hands in Combat with this Legendary)

Sigil of Purity
Gain the chance 33/44/55/66/66% of removing Conditions. ICD 10s
Reduces also the Durations of Conditions on you by 4/6/8/10/10% (You have a Purifying Aura on your Hands in Combat with this Legendary
—

If merged, we would see then here also:

Sigil of Smoldering
Gain a 10/15/20/25/25 Chance to inflict Burning on Hit for 2s (ICD8s)
Increases also the Duration of Burning by 5/10/15/20/20% (You have a Burning Aura on your hands in combat with this Legendary)

ect pp.

New

Sigil of Looting
Gain a chance of 15/20/25/30/30% on hit of leeching Endurance from your Enemy
Increases the Duration of Vigor by 10/15/20/25/25% (You have a Looting Aura on your Hands in Combat with this Legendary.

Sigil of Knowledge
Gain a chance of 33/44/55/66/66% on hit to reload your last used and reloading Skill that was no Weapon Skill for 3 seconds faster(ICD 10s)
Increases also the Duration of Alacrity by 5/10/15/20/20% (You have an Expert Aura on your hands in combat with this Legendary)

Orpheal.8263:

And here I thought, this example couldn’t have been obvious enough xD LOL

I want Minor/Major/Superior/Ascended & Legendary Sigils.

So for what could potentially then a number listing like 4/5/7/9/9% stand for?

hmmm? hmmmmmmm?? Very difficult ^^ !! 3 times you may guess xD

@ Yannir:

oh ya, my mistake, 30 naturally, so with my intented suggestion then would a more intensified Might Boon give you per Stack then 33 Points of Power per Stack instead of 30 then

You really should move this conversation elsewhere, as it doesn’t involve PvP really, and is pretty much off topic. PvP only uses 1 sigil strength, and I think that’s fine as it is. You can start a new thread for it in GW2 Discussion. I’ll be sure to pitch in when you do.

“PvP uses only 1 Sigil Strength”
I understand everything ,except this part. What do you mean actually with that??

Orpheal.8263:

“PvP uses only 1 Sigil Strength”
I understand everything ,except this part. What do you mean actually with that??

-In other words, there is only 1 tier of sigils in PvP, which is currently Superior. Sigil strength is another word for it.
-In PvE we currently have 3 sigil strengths which are Minor, Major and Superior.
-You propose 5 different sigil strengths.
-This has nothing directly to do with ‘Sigil of Strength’, but I understand if that was something you confused it for.

Ah, ok,. yea, I know, PvP uses only Max Tier Upgrades,.
However, doesn’t change anything on my proposed changes, just so for PvP people naturally have to look onto my max values, because if we would get the Upgrade System to become complete with also Ascended and Legendary Tier, thwen would become for PvP the values of the Ascended tier the new standard as they would replace then Superior for PvP Games as what I propose here is mostly that the current Superior Tier Upgrades should get weakened a bit, so that they become closer to Minor/Major.
I even weakened in some cases for rebalance some values and equalized them.

Example with the first Attribute Sigils I made

Original Version based on Superior Sigil Effect: Sigil of Malice

Superior Original Version = 10% increased Condition Durations
My proposed Version = Superior has 5% increased Duration, Ascened would have 6, both Versions would be weaker than the current original!!

A chance that would make together sense, if Anet would like I propose also, merge the Duration Bonus Sigils with the Chance on Hit-Sigils to make the Chance on Hit isgils a bit more impactful and valuable, compared to the Critical Hit Effect Sigils with that you can deal additional damage, while the on Hit Sigils compared to that do mostly nothing – or at least nothign that is worth of it to keep these effects as sigils, but when being merged with the Duration Bonus Sigls effects, they be alot more useful and as a counterbalance has malice to be reduced from 10 to max 6% increased durations, therefore that it boosts the durations of all conditions and not only 1 specific one.

PvP has always had by the design of it the advantage, that players don’t have to work for anythign there, you get Max Equipment right from begin.
So I think it would be absolutely no problem at all, if ANet would change PvP and the balance around of it accordingly also to Ascended Equipment, so BIS Status, because that would become in return the game also good for balance around WvW at the same time too, if skills, traits, upgrades ect. aroudn the combat system woudl get finally balanced everywhere around Ascended Equipment.

In my honest opinion a change, that is long overdue and should have been directly made, when they had introduced ascended gear completely from the moment on when peopel became able to get a complete set. That was the best moment where Naet should have upgraded PvP Equipment completely to Ascended Status as well as Max Gear Standard around that the mode gets balanced for.

@Orpheal Yes, it doesn’t change anything in your proposal, I’m just saying this is the wrong the place to discuss it. Deserves a thread of its own, wherever you decide to make it.

i think sigils should be minor..
(now we have sigils being stronger compared to traits..)

So this change is a step in the right direction!
But do try to make a little bit more sigils..

Like we have +0,5% dmg for every boon you have.
Why not +0,5% crit dmg? something like that.

@Anet pls implement the sigils in WvW also.. less sustain and dmg should be good over there.. also nerf the crap out of food over there.

I think decreasing the duration of the sigil of Paralyzation to 25% or even 20%, but having it affect daze as well would make it more useful.

Or a sigil where you gain bonus damage after being inflicted with a condition would help fight Condi spam.

So is this still happening?

It will happen Soon™

@Evan Lesh Can we get an update on what we’re receiving currently? Any further changes?

Fury on weapon swap sigil Anetpls. #rifleengidreams

Renny.6571:

Fury on weapon swap sigil Anetpls. #rifleengidreams

What’s the point? It could only be like 1 second long…

Wolfric.9380:

The change is like this. A large downgrade of options and power in sigils. Shure this leads to more balance again scrapping diversity. I don´t know who is making desicions but diversity is the main key for long term exitement. Games without options can be fun for two days then i discard them.

They seem so lost when it comes to fixing the broken class balance and lack of diversity that they just do random stuff like this sigil change to create a short time period where people are experimenting a bit. Then they’ll spend the next year wondering why it didn’t work and why they are losing more players.

evan,

once again,
please consider keeping the various self healing sigils ya

blood
water
renewal
leeching
etc

Xillllix.3485:

Wolfric.9380:

The change is like this. A large downgrade of options and power in sigils. Shure this leads to more balance again scrapping diversity. I don´t know who is making desicions but diversity is the main key for long term exitement. Games without options can be fun for two days then i discard them.

They seem so lost when it comes to fixing the broken class balance and lack of diversity that they just do random stuff like this sigil change to create a short time period where people are experimenting a bit. Then they’ll spend the next year wondering why it didn’t work and why they are losing more players.

I disagree that they are lost. They actually acive better balance. But it makes the game more and more booring.

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A BETTER DEFlNlTION OF WHAT lS AFFECTED BY STUN DURATlON?

STONE/REAPER’S FROST/JADE. ETC. KTHXBYE

Ramoth.9064:

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A BETTER DEFlNlTION OF WHAT lS AFFECTED BY STUN DURATlON?

STONE/REAPER’S FROST/JADE. ETC. KTHXBYE

Take a look here
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

Wolfric.9380:

The change is like this. A large downgrade of options and power in sigils. Shure this leads to more balance again scrapping diversity. I don´t know who is making desicions but diversity is the main key for long term exitement. Games without options can be fun for two days then i discard them.

^this

Vitali.5039:

Ramoth.9064:

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A BETTER DEFlNlTION OF WHAT lS AFFECTED BY STUN DURATlON?

STONE/REAPER’S FROST/JADE. ETC. KTHXBYE

Take a look here
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

its not very useful. stuff like basilisk had to be field tested by players, its still ambiguous. does sigil of paralyzation affect knockdowns? DOES IT?

You know what would help balance a lot? Delete Trapper runes.

Ithilwen.1529:

You know what would help balance a lot? Delete Trapper runes.

You play mesmer. You have no reason to be caught in a trap.

Ithilwen.1529:

You know what would help balance a lot? Delete Trapper runes.

Really? Out of all the things you bring out trapper runes? At best, trapper runes are a niche.

indeed trapper runes are realy not an issue. The actually create diversity and allow nice builds …

Ramoth.9064:

does sigil of paralyzation affect knockdowns? DOES IT?

No, it isn’t a stun..
For the basilisk venom your stun duration is increased but not the shared stun.

Guess this thread is not needed anymore, there is no pvp.

I honestly wouldn’t care if these changes were scrapped. They just create more unneeded confusion between PvE and PvP, and reduce options overall. The fact that condi builds get indirectly buffed doesn’t help either.

Master Ketsu.4569:

I honestly wouldn’t care if these changes were scrapped. They just create more unneeded confusion between PvE and PvP, and reduce options overall. The fact that condi builds get indirectly buffed doesn’t help either.

Condi builds aren’t really buffed though. The only builds that would ever want a duration sigil over a application sigil are burn builds, and burn builds already have a duration sigil.

Outside of burn builds, condi Mesmer is the only class I can think of that might want the new duration sigils. All other condi builds will probably end up using the weapon swap sigils.

Don’t double agility cooldown

Crinn.7864:

Master Ketsu.4569:

I honestly wouldn’t care if these changes were scrapped. They just create more unneeded confusion between PvE and PvP, and reduce options overall. The fact that condi builds get indirectly buffed doesn’t help either.

Condi builds aren’t really buffed though. The only builds that would ever want a duration sigil over a application sigil are burn builds, and burn builds already have a duration sigil.

Outside of burn builds, condi Mesmer is the only class I can think of that might want the new duration sigils. All other condi builds will probably end up using the weapon swap sigils.

He didn’t mention condi duration sigils so idk what you’re talking about. Power builds rely a lot more on sigils for damage (air/blood) than condi builds do, by removing them Anet’ll tip the scale towards condi.

power builds also benefit from crits, condy does not.

witcher.3197:

He didn’t mention condi duration sigils so idk what you’re talking about. Power builds rely a lot more on sigils for damage (air/blood) than condi builds do, by removing them Anet’ll tip the scale towards condi.

Except Anet removed every application sigil so condis got nerfed too.

vesica tempestas.1563:

power builds also benefit from crits, condy does not.

Nearly all condi traitlines include on-crit traits. Additionally condi builds are still doing 20-40% of their damage in power damage.

Any chance for another gain boon on hit sigil? Fury? Swiftness?