Guild Wars 2

internal cd is 5s instead of the stated 3s. pls fisk!

Sunfish.5970:

internal cd is 5s instead of the stated 3s. pls fisk!

Proof?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sunfish.5970:

internal cd is 5s instead of the stated 3s. pls fisk!

Proof?

go test it

Sunfish.5970:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sunfish.5970:

internal cd is 5s instead of the stated 3s. pls fisk!

Proof?

go test it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Air

You get a 50% chance to proc this on a critical hit. Even if your crit chance was 100% (which is likely is not) getting a proc every 5 seconds is lucky.

So youll need specific proof that the Internal Cooldown is 5 seconds.

If this is the case, I’d rather shoot for a tooltip adjustment. >_>:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sunfish.5970:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sunfish.5970:

internal cd is 5s instead of the stated 3s. pls fisk!

Proof?

go test it

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Air

You get a 50% chance to proc this on a critical hit. Even if your crit chance was 100% (which is likely is not) getting a proc every 5 seconds is lucky.

So youll need specific proof that the Internal Cooldown is 5 seconds.

This

Wrap it up.

It honestly is the reason I quit. Getting insta gibbed by auto attacks and 4 fire/air sigils in a few seconds EVERY few seconds = no room for skill or counter play. It really is brainless. Unavoidable SPIKE damage. Celestial isn’t even that OP compared to these. I would make the icd 10 seconds for air and fire.

That’s nice actually, now maybe they will finish the job and remove the #1 most skillless overpowered sigil from the game

says sigil is broken, gets challenged, gets embarrassed and tells the readers to go test it.

lululululzzzz

Lordrosicky.5813:

It honestly is the reason I quit. Getting insta gibbed by auto attacks and 4 fire/air sigils in a few seconds EVERY few seconds = no room for skill or counter play. It really is brainless. Unavoidable SPIKE damage. Celestial isn’t even that OP compared to these. I would make the icd 10 seconds for air and fire.

QQ hahahah

Lordrosicky.5813:

It honestly is the reason I quit. Getting insta gibbed by auto attacks and 4 fire/air sigils in a few seconds EVERY few seconds = no room for skill or counter play. It really is brainless. Unavoidable SPIKE damage. Celestial isn’t even that OP compared to these. I would make the icd 10 seconds for air and fire.

If you’re lasting more than a few seconds and are taking spike damage (that isnt instagib btw), the build they’re hitting you with is glass and you should adjust accordingly.

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

There’s no way to avoid air-fire.

What u said makes literally 0 sense

Everytime sigil of air proc, the owner should receive damage too if holding a metallic weapon cos you know metals are conductive same if fire proc while holding a woody weapon

Jelzouki.4128:

says sigil is broken, gets challenged, gets embarrassed and tells the readers to go test it.

lululululzzzz

The OP: Sunfhish is telling other player to test to see if same evidence. Where is the joke? I do not see it!!

The joke is he doesn’t understand the math behind the sigil.

The sigil has an ICD of 3s. It has a 50% of proc’ing. With a weapon set doing 1 attack/sec with a 100% crit chance, the likelihood of you successfully proc’ing every time the proc available is still only 50%. So every third time the proc is available you will fail it 50% of the time as well. If you fail it, it takes longer to proc.

There’s nothing really to see in this thread other than a gross misunderstanding of the ICD of a sigil.

SobeSoul.6910:

The joke is he doesn’t understand the math behind the sigil.

The sigil has an ICD of 3s. It has a 50% of proc’ing. With a weapon set doing 1 attack/sec with a 100% crit chance, the likelihood of you successfully proc’ing every time the proc available is still only 50%. So every third time the proc is available you will fail it 50% of the time as well. If you fail it, it takes longer to proc.

There’s nothing really to see in this thread other than a gross misunderstanding of the ICD of a sigil.

It is still not joke but than you for explaining it still to Sunfish

Mrbig.8019:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

There’s no way to avoid air-fire.

What u said makes literally 0 sense

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

Does it make sense now?

Sunfish actually did the the most efficient thing since proving a negative is kind of hard.

You’re asking him to prove that something doesn’t happen within a timespan. The only feasible way to present evidence of that is to provide video evidence with a timer in between air procs.

Even then he can’t prove it’s not happening, he can only provide a body of evidence that favors his claim. He is bringing it up on the forums for others and the devs to verify if it’s accurate, he could just have filled out a bug report, but this is more efficient in getting turn around since the forums have higher visibility.

Whether it’s actually an issue or not is irrelevant when reality is that this is one of the best ways to deliver the message if it is an issue since you can’t prove a negative and having other players back up your claim is the best kind of evidence you could provide unless you are capable of spending time to produce a video.

Shockwave.1230:

Sunfish actually did the the most efficient thing since proving a negative is kind of hard.

You’re asking him to prove that something doesn’t happen within a timespan. The only feasible way to present evidence of that is to provide video evidence with a timer in between air procs.

Even then he can’t prove it’s not happening, he can only provide a body of evidence that favors his claim. He is bringing it up on the forums for others and the devs to verify if it’s accurate, he could just have filled out a bug report, but this is more efficient in getting turn around since the forums have higher visibility.

Whether it’s actually an issue or not is irrelevant when reality is that this is one of the best ways to deliver the message if it is an issue since you can’t prove a negative and having other players back up your claim is the best kind of evidence you could provide unless you are capable of spending time to produce a video.

All of that is well and good, but if you’re going to make a claim that something is not working as intended, you should have some kind of concrete evidence supporting that claim before asking for a field test.

I honestly don’t care whether it’s broken or not. If you say it is, and want devs to fix it, it stands to reason that something led you to that conclusion. Asking someone to investigate a whim is an insult to both their time and yours.

Shockwave.1230:

Sunfish actually did the the most efficient thing since proving a negative is kind of hard.

You’re asking him to prove that something doesn’t happen within a timespan. The only feasible way to present evidence of that is to provide video evidence with a timer in between air procs.

Even then he can’t prove it’s not happening, he can only provide a body of evidence that favors his claim. He is bringing it up on the forums for others and the devs to verify if it’s accurate, he could just have filled out a bug report, but this is more efficient in getting turn around since the forums have higher visibility.

Whether it’s actually an issue or not is irrelevant when reality is that this is one of the best ways to deliver the message if it is an issue since you can’t prove a negative and having other players back up your claim is the best kind of evidence you could provide unless you are capable of spending time to produce a video.

It’s already been explained twice in this post. Its not a “once every 3 second proc.” Sigil of air has a chance to proc, then you have wait 3 seconds for it to have another chance. Theres a good possibility that you can go a full 10 seconds only crits, and still not see a proc. 50% does not mean 1 out of every 2 crits are guaranteed to proc. 50% means each crit has the same 50% chance as the last.

That being said, using the same odds as winning the lottery, theres a chance you can go the rest of the game without ever seeing an air proc, even if you have 100% crit. Incredibly unlikely, yes, but still possible. ;p

Shockwave.1230:

Sunfish actually did the the most efficient thing since proving a negative is kind of hard.

You’re asking him to prove that something doesn’t happen within a timespan. The only feasible way to present evidence of that is to provide video evidence with a timer in between air procs.

Even then he can’t prove it’s not happening, he can only provide a body of evidence that favors his claim. He is bringing it up on the forums for others and the devs to verify if it’s accurate, he could just have filled out a bug report, but this is more efficient in getting turn around since the forums have higher visibility.

Whether it’s actually an issue or not is irrelevant when reality is that this is one of the best ways to deliver the message if it is an issue since you can’t prove a negative and having other players back up your claim is the best kind of evidence you could provide unless you are capable of spending time to produce a video.

Sunfish “go test it”

Old suggestion but always valid: no proc on autoattack

Mrbig.8019:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

There’s no way to avoid air-fire.

What u said makes literally 0 sense

Lol I know. Its funny their arguement is “l2p”. That is exactly my point. You cant avoid fire and air unless you dodge every auto attack/attack.

It is at odds with the way the game was meant to be designed – using dodge to show your skill and avoid damage.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.

There’s no way to avoid air-fire.

What u said makes literally 0 sense

Lol I know. Its funny their arguement is “l2p”. That is exactly my point. You cant avoid fire and air unless you dodge every auto attack/attack.

It is at odds with the way the game was meant to be designed – using dodge to show your skill and avoid damage.

Okay, guess we’re just going to say “No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.” = “Lol dont get hit by fire/air sigils”

Instead of “No pity for someone that lets a fire-air combo hit them on both weapon sets without doing something.”

So, in a 60 sec rotation I put out 100 hits using dagger AA chain unbroken.

Let’s say we throw on an accuracy sigil for 7% crit rate, take 6 pts in critical strikes for the 300 prec but ignore the 5% while above 90. Assume fury from stealing with a triple stat amulet where precision is a minor stat(barbarian,etc..). This puts us at 78.61% crit rate. Then we need to calculate the time required to proc. So your average first proc is:

[number of seconds in interval / (number of hits in interval * crit rate as decimal * chance to proc on crit)].

Which is a 1.527 second average interval before you land a crit that procs an air sigil. Then you take your ICD of 3 secs and add that on to your average interval and you’re getting a minimum of 4.5 seconds between each air sigil proc.

Now throw on the agility signet and an assassin’s amulet. You now have 100% crit rate, so your minimum activation rate is now 4.2seconds at maximum crit rate.

So, you could say a general dps build in pvp is looking at a 4.5seconds interval between successive air sigil procs for a d/d thief just using auto attacks.

But feel free to go into pvp and attempt to hit crits a fraction of a second after a 3second interval until you’ve managed it 25+ times and see if air sigil procs.

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

Phantaram.1265:

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

No. But that isn’t scientific. Do you understand probability and statistics?

Air procs aren’t 100% every 3s. It’s 50/50 if it procs or not. Therefore 3s is the optimal time it actually procs, but that’s not realistic.

Air is OP anyways,with 2.5 power air procs for 1.7 on me in wvw ( 1.2 in pvp ).Imo the 3sec should be raised to 5 sec.But there’s more op sigils like geomancy,when you go full condi ( On warr,with 50% bleed trait – krait ) you can let geomancy tick for 12 – 14 sec – 425hp/sec,which is just ridiculous.

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Phantaram.1265:

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

No. But that isn’t scientific. Do you understand probability and statistics?

Air procs aren’t 100% every 3s. It’s 50/50 if it procs or not. Therefore 3s is the optimal time it actually procs, but that’s not realistic.

“Do you understand probability and statistics?”

Lol, this comes across as pretty unnecessary a comment when you consder how fast the rate of fire on the Scepter Air 1 ability with crit rate mentioned, a difference in the rate of procs would be immediately apparent if the cooldown on Air Sigil was indeed 3 seconds.

Your teammate obviously shows a lack of understanding of it. If he did, you and him, would understand 1 minute of testing doesn’t provide data that would even be acknowledged on an academic level. Learn what sample sizes are, and what is too small to take seriously.

You and your teammate might be top tier players. But neither of you are top tier mathematicians if you defend that as “testing”.

You could actually set up an equation. Figure out what he average time for different crit chances for the sigil to proc. And then you would need 1,200+ bits of data (more would be better) to see if the sigil ICD is in line with the tooltip for it. I’ve been in an upper level Economics class that involved Statistics. There’s no grey area between good statistics and bad field “testing”.

And have phanta show screens shots of his testing.

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Phantaram.1265:

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

No. But that isn’t scientific. Do you understand probability and statistics?

Air procs aren’t 100% every 3s. It’s 50/50 if it procs or not. Therefore 3s is the optimal time it actually procs, but that’s not realistic.

“Do you understand probability and statistics?”

Lol, this comes across as pretty unnecessary a comment when you consder how fast the rate of fire on the Scepter Air 1 ability with crit rate mentioned, a difference in the rate of procs would be immediately apparent if the cooldown on Air Sigil was indeed 3 seconds.

Your teammate obviously shows a lack of understanding of it. If he did, you and him, would understand 1 minute of testing doesn’t provide data that would even be acknowledged on an academic level. Learn what sample sizes are, and what is too small to take seriously.

You and your teammate might be top tier players. But neither of you are top tier mathematicians if you defend that as “testing”.

You could actually set up an equation. Figure out what he average time for different crit chances for the sigil to proc. And then you would need 1,200+ bits of data (more would be better) to see if the sigil ICD is in line with the tooltip for it. I’ve been in an upper level Economics class that involved Statistics. There’s no grey area between good statistics and bad field “testing”.

And have phanta show screens shots of his testing.

We’re trying to figure out if something is fishy here, not publish a paper.

Arc Lightning hits 2.8 times every second. Not once a second. To see no difference in proc rates between Air and Fire in two separate tests, maybe the people who have tested this are on to something?

I have not tested it myself.

Edit: I have Air and Fire sigil on right now, and I’m smacking an indestuctible dummy, and to the naked eye it appears that Air and Fire procs are matching each other at a 1:1 ratio.

I’ve now been doing this for quite a while and despite the RNG of crits, they’ve been exactly as spaced out as each other. I’ve never seen Air Sigil procs ‘lap’ or increase in procs per minute over the fire sigil.

Disbelieve if you prefer, I don’t give one expletive deleted if normal people methods don’t convince you, Sheldon.

Why did part of this thread become discussing burden of proof and people qqing over sigils, which most of the time dont really matter….

Turk.5460:

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

There’s a difference between this stupid example you gave and phantarams test. Sure phanty coulda given a larger sample size but his proof does show that there may be something wrong with air sigil. Air sigil itself is buggy, just ask tarcis about arcing slice :P

i would like to know what the chances are that for 2 tests 1 minute each of channeling air 1 on scepter air sigil with a three second icd procced just as much as fire sigil with a five second icd. Also what are the chances that in 4 tests the sigil procced the same amount each time.

The game unlike real life is not random and its method of critting is probably pretty consistent. I don’t think you need a huge sample size for a sigil that proccs 50% of the time in order to see whether something may be wrong.

Nyx.7342:

Why did part of this thread become discussing burden of proof and people qqing over sigils, which most of the time dont really matter….

Turk.5460:

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

There’s a difference between this stupid example you gave and phantarams test. Sure phanty coulda given a larger sample size but his proof does show that there may be something wrong with air sigil. Air sigil itself is buggy, just ask tarcis about arcing slice :P

i would like to know what the chances are that for 2 tests 1 minute each of channeling air 1 on scepter air sigil with a three second icd procced just as much as fire sigil with a five second icd. Also what are the chances that in 4 tests the sigil procced the same amount each time.

The game unlike real life is not random and its method of critting is probably pretty consistent. I don’t think you need a huge sample size for a sigil that proccs 50% of the time in order to see whether something may be wrong.

If something has a 50% chance of happening that makes it random, since you cannot with absolute certainty predict it every single.

Maybe the OP is right, but OP did not provide any evidence to support his or her claim.

Sample size exist for a reason. It is not only for academic papers as the person above you seem to believe.

Anyways, OP could be right but his arguments so far have been terrible.

You would need a huge sample size even if it was a 99% chance. That’s the point of probability and statistics.

Nyx.7342:

Why did part of this thread become discussing burden of proof and people qqing over sigils, which most of the time dont really matter….

Turk.5460:

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

There’s a difference between this stupid example you gave and phantarams test. Sure phanty coulda given a larger sample size but his proof does show that there may be something wrong with air sigil. Air sigil itself is buggy, just ask tarcis about arcing slice :P

i would like to know what the chances are that for 2 tests 1 minute each of channeling air 1 on scepter air sigil with a three second icd procced just as much as fire sigil with a five second icd. Also what are the chances that in 4 tests the sigil procced the same amount each time.

The game unlike real life is not random and its method of critting is probably pretty consistent. I don’t think you need a huge sample size for a sigil that proccs 50% of the time in order to see whether something may be wrong.

It wouldn’t be uncommon for four things to have the same outputs over a small sample size.

SobeSoul.6910:

Nyx.7342:

Why did part of this thread become discussing burden of proof and people qqing over sigils, which most of the time dont really matter….

Turk.5460:

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

There’s a difference between this stupid example you gave and phantarams test. Sure phanty coulda given a larger sample size but his proof does show that there may be something wrong with air sigil. Air sigil itself is buggy, just ask tarcis about arcing slice :P

i would like to know what the chances are that for 2 tests 1 minute each of channeling air 1 on scepter air sigil with a three second icd procced just as much as fire sigil with a five second icd. Also what are the chances that in 4 tests the sigil procced the same amount each time.

The game unlike real life is not random and its method of critting is probably pretty consistent. I don’t think you need a huge sample size for a sigil that proccs 50% of the time in order to see whether something may be wrong.

It wouldn’t be uncommon for four things to have the same outputs over a small sample size.

Its not that small of a sample size
In total phantaram hit 168 times and crit about 145 times.

fire sigil can only proc 12 times a minute because of 5s icd. With 2.8 hits a second thats about 33.6 hits that fire sigil can proc (12 seconds of possibility in a minute). with 86.5% crit chance 29.064 hits are crits, and with 50% chance of proccing fire sigil there should be 14.532 hits that fire sigil procs. But ofc its restricted to 12 and since phanty only did it for a minute it makes sense that he only got 11 procs.

Air sigil with a 3s icd can proc 20 times a min. with 2.8 hits a second thats 56 hits, with a 86.5% crit chance there are 48.44 crits. 50% so 24.22 times that air sigil should proc. But its restricted to 20 since the icd.

Not saying his sample is 100% right, but shouldnt he have gotten more than 11 procs with air sigil? he had 145 crits that could have procced it and with an icd of only 3s supposedly he could have procced it at max 20 times. seems somethings a little fishy and it seems unlikely that he would have gotten the same procs for both sigils with the amount of crits he had.

Nyx.7342:

SobeSoul.6910:

Nyx.7342:

Why did part of this thread become discussing burden of proof and people qqing over sigils, which most of the time dont really matter….

Turk.5460:

“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”

There’s a difference between this stupid example you gave and phantarams test. Sure phanty coulda given a larger sample size but his proof does show that there may be something wrong with air sigil. Air sigil itself is buggy, just ask tarcis about arcing slice :P

i would like to know what the chances are that for 2 tests 1 minute each of channeling air 1 on scepter air sigil with a three second icd procced just as much as fire sigil with a five second icd. Also what are the chances that in 4 tests the sigil procced the same amount each time.

The game unlike real life is not random and its method of critting is probably pretty consistent. I don’t think you need a huge sample size for a sigil that proccs 50% of the time in order to see whether something may be wrong.

It wouldn’t be uncommon for four things to have the same outputs over a small sample size.

Its not that small of a sample size
In total phantaram hit 168 times and crit about 145 times.

fire sigil can only proc 12 times a minute because of 5s icd. With 2.8 hits a second thats about 33.6 hits that fire sigil can proc (12 seconds of possibility in a minute). with 86.5% crit chance 29.064 hits are crits, and with 50% chance of proccing fire sigil there should be 14.532 hits that fire sigil procs. But ofc its restricted to 12 and since phanty only did it for a minute it makes sense that he only got 11 procs.

Air sigil with a 3s icd can proc 20 times a min. with 2.8 hits a second thats 56 hits, with a 86.5% crit chance there are 48.44 crits. 50% so 24.22 times that air sigil should proc. But its restricted to 20 since the icd.

Not saying his sample is 100% right, but shouldnt he have gotten more than 11 procs with air sigil? he had 145 crits that could have procced it and with an icd of only 3s supposedly he could have procced it at max 20 times. seems somethings a little fishy and it seems unlikely that he would have gotten the same procs for both sigils with the amount of crits he had.

Scientific method or riot, Kappa.

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Phantaram.1265:

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

No. But that isn’t scientific. Do you understand probability and statistics?

Air procs aren’t 100% every 3s. It’s 50/50 if it procs or not. Therefore 3s is the optimal time it actually procs, but that’s not realistic.

“Do you understand probability and statistics?”

Lol, this comes across as pretty unnecessary a comment when you consder how fast the rate of fire on the Scepter Air 1 ability with crit rate mentioned, a difference in the rate of procs would be immediately apparent if the cooldown on Air Sigil was indeed 3 seconds.

Your teammate obviously shows a lack of understanding of it. If he did, you and him, would understand 1 minute of testing doesn’t provide data that would even be acknowledged on an academic level. Learn what sample sizes are, and what is too small to take seriously.

You and your teammate might be top tier players. But neither of you are top tier mathematicians if you defend that as “testing”.

You could actually set up an equation. Figure out what he average time for different crit chances for the sigil to proc. And then you would need 1,200+ bits of data (more would be better) to see if the sigil ICD is in line with the tooltip for it. I’ve been in an upper level Economics class that involved Statistics. There’s no grey area between good statistics and bad field “testing”.

And have phanta show screens shots of his testing.

We’re trying to figure out if something is fishy here, not publish a paper.

Arc Lightning hits 2.8 times every second. Not once a second. To see no difference in proc rates between Air and Fire in two separate tests, maybe the people who have tested this are on to something?

I have not tested it myself.

Edit: I have Air and Fire sigil on right now, and I’m smacking an indestuctible dummy, and to the naked eye it appears that Air and Fire procs are matching each other at a 1:1 ratio.

I’ve now been doing this for quite a while and despite the RNG of crits, they’ve been exactly as spaced out as each other. I’ve never seen Air Sigil procs ‘lap’ or increase in procs per minute over the fire sigil.

Disbelieve if you prefer, I don’t give one expletive deleted if normal people methods don’t convince you, Sheldon.

" not trying to publish a paper" lol wut I’m laughing irl
He’s trying to explain basic math to you and you arguably make the most dumb comment of all. R.I P. Indeed

Even if you’re hitting more than once every second that is still a flawed method of testing it. You realize you need to take your critical hit chance into consideration? Lololol I laughed at “Sheldon” you’re only making yourself look dumber by making snarky comments at the guy who makes more sense than the person you were defending (phanta) excuse my grammar im typing from my phone

Jelzouki.4128:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Chaith.8256:

SobeSoul.6910:

Phantaram.1265:

I tested in about 5 minutes of my free time. Less than than most of you probably took typing the things you typed.

86.5% crit chance channeling Air #1 on scepter (elementalist)

1st 1 minute trial with fire sigil (5 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with fire sigil
Procced 11 times

1st 1 minute trial with air sigil (listed 3 second cooldown)
procced 11 times

2nd 1 minute trial with air sigil
procced 11 times

Oh no. I’ve provided proof when the burden was not mine. Did I commit some kind of treasonous act?

No. But that isn’t scientific. Do you understand probability and statistics?

Air procs aren’t 100% every 3s. It’s 50/50 if it procs or not. Therefore 3s is the optimal time it actually procs, but that’s not realistic.

“Do you understand probability and statistics?”

Lol, this comes across as pretty unnecessary a comment when you consder how fast the rate of fire on the Scepter Air 1 ability with crit rate mentioned, a difference in the rate of procs would be immediately apparent if the cooldown on Air Sigil was indeed 3 seconds.

Your teammate obviously shows a lack of understanding of it. If he did, you and him, would understand 1 minute of testing doesn’t provide data that would even be acknowledged on an academic level. Learn what sample sizes are, and what is too small to take seriously.

You and your teammate might be top tier players. But neither of you are top tier mathematicians if you defend that as “testing”.

You could actually set up an equation. Figure out what he average time for different crit chances for the sigil to proc. And then you would need 1,200+ bits of data (more would be better) to see if the sigil ICD is in line with the tooltip for it. I’ve been in an upper level Economics class that involved Statistics. There’s no grey area between good statistics and bad field “testing”.

And have phanta show screens shots of his testing.

We’re trying to figure out if something is fishy here, not publish a paper.

Arc Lightning hits 2.8 times every second. Not once a second. To see no difference in proc rates between Air and Fire in two separate tests, maybe the people who have tested this are on to something?

I have not tested it myself.

Edit: I have Air and Fire sigil on right now, and I’m smacking an indestuctible dummy, and to the naked eye it appears that Air and Fire procs are matching each other at a 1:1 ratio.

I’ve now been doing this for quite a while and despite the RNG of crits, they’ve been exactly as spaced out as each other. I’ve never seen Air Sigil procs ‘lap’ or increase in procs per minute over the fire sigil.

Disbelieve if you prefer, I don’t give one expletive deleted if normal people methods don’t convince you, Sheldon.

" not trying to publish a paper" lol wut I’m laughing irl
He’s trying to explain basic math to you and you arguably make the most dumb comment of all. R.I P. Indeed

Even if you’re hitting more than once every second that is still a flawed method of testing it. You realize you need to take your critical hit chance into consideration? Lololol I laughed at “Sheldon” you’re only making yourself look dumber by making snarky comments at the guy who makes more sense than the person you were defending (phanta) excuse my grammar im typing from my phone

There is a huge and apparent difference between a sigil that procs every 3 seconds, and one that procs every 5 seconds when you hit 2.8 times every second with an 80%+ crit rate.

I tested this for around 8 minutes with air and fire sigils proccing, and the crit chance RNG did indeed shift the procs around by a second, but both of them are activating every 4.8-5.2 seconds.

Everyone so far in this thread that’s tried it has reached the same conclusion, and everyone who hasn’t tested it has been simply crapping on the means.

It feels like you guys seem offended because I didn’t provide any proof. If you don’t believe me, go test it for yourself, who better than you? It personally doesn’t matter to me whether or not you guys believe me or not, this is mainly for anet.

All you scholars are making me sad ;(

If it’s bugged, then add it to the list of bugs that turned into features because Air Sigil does not need any more buffs!
If it’s not bugged, then none of this matters!
That’s all!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

For all the people that don’t want to believe this, here’s a simple scientific setup:

Hypothesis: Sigil of Air has a 5sec ICD

Test Setup: Engineer with as high a crit chance as possible (rampager or assassin amulet, 6 into precision line, precision runes). Equip Sigil of Air and flamethrower. Auto-attack indestructible dummy (~4 attacks/second and you can let it keep doing).

If Sigil of Air procs once within less than 5 seconds, the hypothesis is disproven. Let’s say we have a 50% crit chance and a 50% proc rate. On average, one of those 4 attacks within a second should proc the sigil if it’s off ICD. Let it go for 10-15 minutes and see if the interval between any proc was less than 5 seconds.

It’s not rocket surgery.

I am absolutely loving this thread!!! lol Statistical analyses & methods ftw.

For the love of all that is holy…..if you really want to test this out you don’t test it on an engineer exedore.

Hidden Killer on thief: 100% crit chance when striking from stealth, revealed buff is 3s. you have enough time to restealth and test the proc intervals. It may be off by 1 second or less.

Definitely best thread 2015

It’s easier to test it on a necromancer with their Death Perception trait. Simply build up life force, with 6points into Curse and a Berserker’s amulet and Pack rune equipped (or simply just Assassin’s amulet).

Stand next to the training dummy to reduce projectile travel time. Plague blast takes 1 one second cast, so it should theoretically proc every 3hits if the internal cooldown is working.

^ it’s not just getting 100% crit. It’s landing multiple crits in a small time frame so you’ll theoretically guarantee an instant proc chance.

On a Group of golems:
Symbol: 5x crits hits per second
Whirling Wrath 42x crit hits per second

At a 74% crit chance, lets just say 30 of my hits crit in a 2 second frame.

So that’s 30 crit hits with a 50% chance of Lightning procing. The majority of my procs happened instantly at 5s with a few rare ones happening at 6 or 7s. Not once did I receive a 3s instant proc, which would have been apparent in my testing.

Granted, with that many hits per second lightning doesn’t show up correctly on the battle log. Regardless, hearing the proc is usually right on queue unless that’s incorrect as well.

I know it’s not suppose to be a guarantee 3s instant proc but it has yet to do so given the above tests… idk if it’s bugged because it’s RNG…. i’m just saying five seconds is what I’ve been getting.

I’ve been testing this on necro using death perception, and the internal cooldown on air is indeed 5 sec.

Just change the tooltip. Fire/air is fine atm. Instant cast burst + that is somewhat of a problem but you can’t simply nerf that or Cele/Turret Engi will be broken.

Saiyan.1704:

^ it’s not just getting 100% crit. It’s landing multiple crits in a small time frame so you’ll theoretically guarantee an instant proc chance.

On a Group of golems:
Symbol: 5x crits hits per second
Whirling Wrath 42x crit hits per second

At a 74% crit chance, lets just say 30 of my hits crit in a 2 second frame.

So that’s 30 crit hits with a 50% chance of Lightning procing. The majority of my procs happened instantly at 5s with a few rare ones happening at 6 or 7s. Not once did I receive a 3s instant proc, which would have been apparent in my testing.

Granted, with that many hits per second lightning doesn’t show up correctly on the battle log. Regardless, hearing the proc is usually right on queue unless that’s incorrect as well.

I know it’s not suppose to be a guarantee 3s instant proc but it has yet to do so given the above tests… idk if it’s bugged because it’s RNG…. i’m just saying five seconds is what I’ve been getting.

Getting 100% crit chance rules out any errors or outliners due to RNG. Using your method described can present problems where the proc doesn’t provide consistency because of the crit hit. Life blast can be traited to pierce and hit multiple ‘group’ golems at once.