Guild Wars 2

I want skill based and stop put me in team with peoples that don’t know the basic of GW2 pvp and are really close to useless as a teamplayer they cant be called teamplayers as a lot of them helps enemy team instead of being any useful.
ive said it in other post. they knockback my downed enemy stability stomp.
they come to stomp enemies that ive killed alone! and defended our only cap point. as they like to have there hands in there kitten usually instead of help when required so they also help enemies to respawn faster and dont let me bleed out them and stupid things like that and the system put that team against a team that knows.
They are close to Ruby or Ruby players and don’t know the basic of pvp! the current system is a joke.
Very bad system as people that dont know basic of pvp was able to made it to Sapphire, Ruby i having to play with them → no progress. → no fun → matches are not fun when you don’t see any teamplay from the people you have to play with → losing interest of pvp in this game → quit game → premade teams cry for theres none solo players left that can feed them to legendary etc and q times 2 hours long if not more. The problem is game rewards your teams perfomance so if some player got their legend title with premades that doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot better solo player that cant progress because he don’t have another 4 skilled peoples with them to faceroll that some matches to diamond/legend. Im only just a Ruby player and im beating a lot of Legend players even some of the skilled ones with really hard and competitive 1v1 fight. not just the ones that have their division and title with about low-mid, mid skill and premade power. Diamond and Legendary division should mean peoples with that div titles are high skilled imo. not just some guy that i kill as a Ruby player while eating a sandwich!!!

I don’t know about that, my situation is different from the others, I keep progressing but slowly, I get past 2 tiers and get stuck the next one for a moment until it happens again…

But one thing for sure: Stronghold and Matchmaking sucks, if someone get’s stuck in a MMR hell or want progress, don’t pick Stronghold, it’s very frustrating with bad teammates, long and you can’t carry…

I’m reasonably certain that when you word it as “skill vs grind” almost everyone will say skill.

However in reality it’s not that black and white.

People want their achievements to be meaningful, people don’t want to share their prestige with lesser skilled players. This is why grind based systems are disliked.

However people also like to progress, people want their time and effort to be rewarded, and people really hate being told that they can’t progress farther. Skill based systems however impose brick walls that players can’t progress past, causing players to have a sense of futility.

The most likeable (not necessarily the most fair) system would be one that half grind, and half skill.

I prefer grind+skill based one like season 1. Anyone who was decent and spent effort could get to his desired division.

The only way a skill based system would work is if everyone had to 1v1 in the league. As 5v5 shows skill of the team, not an individual. Though you can see peoples skill to a degree, but not there true skill.

Crinn.7864:

I’m reasonably certain that when you word it as “skill vs grind” almost everyone will say skill.

However in reality it’s not that black and white.

People want their achievements to be meaningful, people don’t want to share their prestige with lesser skilled players. This is why grind based systems are disliked.

However people also like to progress, people want their time and effort to be rewarded, and people really hate being told that they can’t progress farther. Skill based systems however impose brick walls that players can’t progress past, causing players to have a sense of futility.

The most likeable (not necessarily the most fair) system would be one that half grind, and half skill.

Could not have put it in better words, also keep in mind the pvp community is extremely small and if you make it a purely skill based system it will De-incentivise the pve players from playing this game mode all together.

S1 was also bad a lot of no skill legendary players running around. Same like this season will be have title and division. premade grind the season but skill is nowhere and its easy to see on their 1v1 perfomance if they suck and doesn’t deserve to be Legend.

BrotherBelial.3094:

The only way a skill based system would work is if everyone had to 1v1 in the league. As 5v5 shows skill of the team, not an individual. Though you can see peoples skill to a degree, but not there true skill.

This! and people have to understand this

5v5 = Skill of the team
1v1 or sometimes being able to solve 1v2 situations = This is your skill.

Malediktus.9250:

I prefer grind+skill based one like season 1. Anyone who was decent and spent effort could get to his desired division.

There was no need to be decent last season. A lot of new/bad players got carried in higher divisions simply because of the fact that they got mixed with good ones. I think people like Vingador etc. got legendary after 1,5 weeks somehow.
And exactly those players complain about this season now, because it gets revealed that they aren’t as great as they thought they would be. Some players are stucked in Emerald/Sapphire now and will reach diamond at the end of the season like they deserve it instead of getting legendary after a few weeks.

Even season 2 is far away from being skill-based but saying that you had to be decent in season 1 is pathetic.
But ye some certain people had more success in season 1 so ofc it was more skill-based

BrotherBelial.3094:

The only way a skill based system would work is if everyone had to 1v1 in the league. As 5v5 shows skill of the team, not an individual. Though you can see peoples skill to a degree, but not there true skill.

5v5 shows the sum total of the skill of the individuals. True skill is represented, it’s just not absolute.

If you actually look at big game changing plays, you’ll notice that those big plays are often executed by single individuals.

Crinn.7864:

5v5 shows the sum total of the skill of the individuals. True skill is represented, it’s just not absolute.

If you actually look at big game changing plays, you’ll notice that those big plays are often executed by single individuals.

You’ve read too much Nietzsche.

BrotherBelial.3094:

The only way a skill based system would work is if everyone had to 1v1 in the league. As 5v5 shows skill of the team, not an individual. Though you can see peoples skill to a degree, but not there true skill.

Correct, the only truly skill based system would be dueling.

dominik.9721:

Malediktus.9250:

I prefer grind+skill based one like season 1. Anyone who was decent and spent effort could get to his desired division.

There was no need to be decent last season. A lot of new/bad players got carried in higher divisions simply because of the fact that they got mixed with good ones. I think people like Vingador etc. got legendary after 1,5 weeks somehow.
And exactly those players complain about this season now, because it gets revealed that they aren’t as great as they thought they would be. Some players are stucked in Emerald/Sapphire now and will reach diamond at the end of the season like they deserve it instead of getting legendary after a few weeks.

Even season 2 is far away from being skill-based but saying that you had to be decent in season 1 is pathetic.
But ye some certain people had more success in season 1 so ofc it was more skill-based

Some new/bad player got carried in S2 as well. They don’t even need the effort this time, just the luck to get on a win streak. They don’t admit it neither and think they deserved it.
S2 has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with a slot machine.

No reason you can’t have both…

Unranked becomes the reward track

Ranked for League placements

Crinn.7864:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The only way a skill based system would work is if everyone had to 1v1 in the league. As 5v5 shows skill of the team, not an individual. Though you can see peoples skill to a degree, but not there true skill.

5v5 shows the sum total of the skill of the individuals. True skill is represented, it’s just not absolute.

If you actually look at big game changing plays, you’ll notice that those big plays are often executed by single individuals.

Or someone has said in map chat to do something and someone has peeled. Not every game changer has been down to that persons own thinking.

@Rolisteel.1375 The old MMR based system in 2014 is similar to unranked. So, the system take people in the same MMR range to put them versus other team with the same kind of MMR range. Once in a while, you got team up versus way better MMR team (or lower) to test your own MMR.

With this system, you should be at the same place in the team you soloq in, but the other team should be in your MMR range, so it would be easier to sustain a 50% win/lose ratio that way.

@Crinn.7864
“However people also like to progress, people want their time and effort to be rewarded, and people really hate being told that they can’t progress farther. Skill based systems however impose brick walls that players can’t progress past, causing players to have a sense of futility.”

Agreed. I did propose a hybrid system, where you need to grind to get a Legendary something…. but not grind to get RANKEd into the system. Our rank in the system should represent skills. Our titles and PVE Items should represent grinds. So the requisite for those is grind… but for your RANKED your skills should prevail.

I think Anet merging the two together made a mistake. I hope they revert that back.

@Malediktus.9250
I understand but player with less skills, was able to grind to Legendary. Having a Legendary Badge, didn’t show how you were good, but how you did grind it.

@BrotherBelial.3094
Partially true. We had a Skill based leaderboard system for 2013-2014. I did follow it daily. I can assure you that people on the top 100 at that time, are still the best of the games. The skill based leaderboard was great to show your SKILL into sPVP.

@ZilentNight.5089
“Could not have put it in better words, also keep in mind the pvp community is extremely small and if you make it a purely skill based system it will De-incentivise the pve players from playing this game mode all together.”

Agreed. The grind should be there for the reward. What I am advocating, is to get SKILL based RANK and GRINDING rewards separated. Like a quest. Or a achievement something. You grind those… but your SKILL should be RANK based versus who you beat (not just a ratio of your win/lose ratio). This “who you beat” thing, is the main motor of MMR attribution.

Many people want to get something meaningful, we need to get objectives to play the game. The Skill based RANKED system simply show your skill. The grind based achievement or quest, give you something. Actually people think that if you are in diamond or legendary you are a skill players…. SORRY. THIS IS NOT TRUE. MANY GRINDERs that don’t have family and work, can’t play better than Mickey Mouse.

@Rolisteel.1375
“5v5 = Skill of the team
1v1 or sometimes being able to solve 1v2 situations = This is your skill.”

It’s still a SKILL based RANKING. Now.. you can soloq grind to Legendary and being into the lower 25% MMR because, you only need to grind more… the grinders will raise anyway. This mean that the ranking of today is not a SKILL of you or your TEAM, it’s show how much GRIND you can put into it.

Into the old leaderboard system, we had:
Rank, Number of game wins, number of game lost, win/loose ratio

Many at the top, didn’t had 10% games of some grinders. But they were there because they were “skill” enough to play with mind like players and beat high MMR team.

To resume the points so far:

Many prefer a skill based ranking.
Most said that having something to grind is need.
Some said it’s hard to evaluated skills.
Most said that bad players with Legendary Rank is common enough that the title don’t mean anything.

Solutions:
Make a RANK based system with your BADGES showing SKILL. (something like 2013-2014 that was good enough to show SKILL of people playing in a TEAM vs TEAM environment).
Make a quest line or achievement line or special rank queue TRACK REWARDS for the Legendary Item grinds.

PLEASE, continue to +1 my first POST and give your comment, more you are to say something and participate, more ANET will have to read and try to figure out why we are all RAGING over the SLOT MACHINE ranking system based on grinds.

s1 system with balanced reward +3+2+1 and -1-2-3 is ok.average cannot be able to pass ruby.
55% player need 600 matches to diamond
60% player need 300 matches to diamond.

that for legendary back, and for self epen.

for the teams (that is the real spvp), every guild have his mmr, the guild with best mmr at the end win prizes and achiev.
a player can play only for a guild in a season.

I agree with the changes overall but the divisions seem way too tight. How I would do it:

1.Legendary-top 200

2.Diamond-top 1.5%-201 ranked

3.Ruby: 87%-98.5 percentile

4.Sapphire: 70%-86.9%

5.Emerald: 25%-69%

6.Amber: bottom 24%/reserved for either trolls who intentionally throw games to get a rise out of their teammates or persistent people who despite poor hardware (meaning bad FPS and/or connections) don’t care they’re bringing the team down.

So to be in ruby for example you need to at least be better than 87% of the player base.

However, this proposal assumes a decently sized player base and Guild Wars 2 PvP population is quite small.

Agemnon.4608:

I agree with the changes overall but the divisions seem way too tight. How I would do it:

1.Legendary-top 200

2.Diamond-top 1.5%-201 ranked

3.Ruby: 87%-98.5 percentile

4.Sapphire: 70%-86.9%

5.Emerald: 25%-69%

6.Amber: bottom 24%/reserved for either trolls who intentionally throw games to get a rise out of their teammates or persistent people who despite poor hardware (meaning bad FPS and/or connections) don’t care they’re bringing the team down.

So to be in ruby for example you need to at least be better than 87% of the player base.

However, this proposal assumes a decently sized player base and Guild Wars 2 PvP population is quite small.

I agree that my division was probably too tight. I don’t have enough metric to distributed the “number of people playing” and their RANK.

From previous experiences, 2 years ago… people below the 70% wasn’t playing much. It was RANK decay for most.

Between 90% to 99% and 70 – 89% we had a good difference between skills.

Making it :

Legend 1-200
Diamond 200-500
Ruby 500-900
Sapphire 900 to 90%
Emerald 90% to 75%
Amber 75% and down, could be more interesting.

That way we would have TWO different thing to consider.

How to RAISE our rank through skills.
How to GRIND the rewards for Legendary Item.

Anybody that thinks the ladder should be grind based (that you somehow should be able to get higher then someone more skilled then you that plays less) at all doesn’t have a clue quite frankly and is part of the problem and A-net would be wise not to listen to you at all. Seriously can’t we have a competitve ladder for god’s sake. I say this as an average player in ruby. This needs to be skilled based. I am not even saying this season is perfect but we need to be looking at league position being 100% reflective of skill whatever they come up with. Im flabbergasted. Stop trying to infuse pvp with pve type concepts. Deal with it if your not able to get to you “desired” division whatever that means lol. I’m sure everyone desires to be legendary. It ain’t gonna happen. Higher league placement is supposed to be a status thing it gets cheapened when any moron can grind there. Again I don’t understand what is difficult to understand here at all!

there are really few way to remove grind and have a real skill ladder system.
for premade probably is a knock out system, you need some iterations at the end you will have the best team.
for solo q, or set a cap for daily match (10? 20?) dunno.
or divide the pip gain/ match played.(basically winrate)
but for this you need a total random MM, so every one is consider equal.
so winrate in total random MM with only soloq will give you the best player.
probably not the best matches, but far better than these in S2.
and for this you need a low cap of match played, at least 300 in a season?

@brannigan.9831
" This needs to be skilled based. I am not even saying this season is perfect but we need to be looking at league position being 100% reflective of skill whatever they come up with."

Thank you for your support!

@vulneraria.4865
The old Leaderboard system was given RANK to player from 1 (the best) to 1000.
Other players, where ranked into percentage. Let’s say 96% would mean you are 4% under to get ranked onto the board.

To get those rank, you simply play games. If you win versus a better team, you get a better rank (and obviously, other had lower rank) if you lost versus a better team but not that much, you get a better rank… well, the pip system of season 1, seems to be inspired from the MMR skill based RANK we had in the past.

So, no need to restrain people numbers of games. You could play 5k games or 200, if you did beat high RANK team, your RANK would be higher.

Grind based so everybody can get to legendary and legendary then is the division where ladder really starts. Divisions before that determine mmr.
MMR gets reset at beginning of each season.
MMR should be based on stats instead of win/loss.
MMR should be split between team-mmr and personal-mmr.

So, any other one want to GRIND to show SKILL?

Or… anyone want to show SKILL through winning the BIG guyz?

What’s best? The guy that play 20 hours a day? Or the guyz that can win versus the top 100 players?

Here is a great post on how to do a SKILL based RANK system:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Computer-science-approach-to-matching

Written by:

Ponidis The Psycho.8612

As many other PvPers I’ve been thinking about the new algorithm that has submitted me to countless ridiculous losses (funniest I had was something like 500v24) and equally ridiculous wins.

As I said in a previous post, the matching algorithm should accomplish two objectives:
1. give rank based on actual skill (ie discriminate/classify players)
2. make for fun matches

The actual algorithm probably accomplishes #1, at least based on very competent players who got endless winning streak and climbed very quickly. However, I feel that matches are less fun because they are either very easy to win or not even worth fighting. The situation has improved slightly (I feel) the last 24-48h, but I don’t know if this is going to continue and how it is going to end.

My input, as a PhD bioinformatician, would be to consider two additional elements:

1. matches that are very well balanced are most informative at the end: if your prediction algorithm is worth anything at all, then a match ending 500vs100 is probably a huge loss of time for both teams. The algorithm probably already knew what was going to happen and did not gain significant knowledge from this match. However, if team A vs team B is ranked 50% win probability, then the actual output of the match will matter, because the algorithm has no idea what is going to happen (this is what it means to predict 50% win probability, ie flip of a coin).

Obviously, one should integrate some degree of luck/flexibility, meaning that a win at 500vs498 is not the same as a win at 500vs440 (clear win, but balanced match). So, my argument is that closely balanced matches will be fun AND provide more information where it matters, ie between teams that are quite close in skill.

2. The evolution of skill measures could be based on a bayesian “learning” framework. The divisions are built a posteriori after the skill has been computed with reasonable confidence. This is a bit technical, but the basic idea is that players start with a broad range of expected skill. Say their MMR is 2000 /- 2000 (ie from complete newb to pro player). Every match contributes to the refinement of our understanding of a player’s skill as an average but also as a variance: what is the “minimum” skill we expect this player to have at 99% probability and what is the “maximum” skill he could possibly have?

So, progressively, this becomes finer to something like 1650/-500 then 1973+/-30 etc. In order to calculate divisions you just give bonuses and “tiers” every time the minimum at 95% (ie average-variance up to 95%) goes over some preset value or over some quantile (percentage) of the population. Also, you can give out a “pvp present” every day based on where the player stands, for example, so that low ranking players get some daily bonuses after their first daily match or every time their average increases (or their variance decreases).

The advantage of this solution is that there is no need to actually fix tournament dates: a bayesian framework progressively improves the quality of the prediction over time, so you can reset it to zero, if you want, or just let a “perpetual” leaderboard and distribute titles or whatever every month.

Anyway, there is a rich literature on the subject of machine learning for classification and bayesian models but in the end I think it should be feasible to make for tight matches between teams of comparable skill AND also put every player where he belongs.

Let me say otherwise that GW2 is a great game. I hope you’ll find a fun and fair solution!

Here is some funny thing right there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49xfxx/pvp_what_are_the_primary_skills_separating_the/

The OP think that he need better skills to enter Diamond, while all he need is better MMR friends (1 or 2 or more) to grind wins (with random soloq better mmr player) to enter it.

People really think that GRINDING wins, show HOW GOOD you are.

Wow.. sorry. This is not going to happen.

In 2 weeks, the grinders will get Legendary. Top players will get normal queue time. Everyone will attest in 1 month, that many Legendary division players are bad.

Grind to the WINS?

There is a great reddit post that discuss the subject openly right there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4an121/are_higher_pvp_divisions_a_good_indicator_of/?ref=search_posts

To summed it up, being Diamond or Legendary don’t reflect your SKILL it only show how much time you put into it.

Probably, the people that are Legendary right now are more SKILL than anyone in the game, but they have already some grinders in it right now.

Next week, it will get more grinders.

At the end of the season more than half of the legendary division players will not be TOP rated by any means.

The League system need to show if you are good (win versus good players), not if you can put 30 hours a week into it.

The worse of our League right now, is that it DIVIDE the player base by 6 QUEUE. They did refuse to divide it by 2 to give SOLO q, but they do by divisions now. This means that the top players in Legendary right NOW, can’t play game because they have 45+ minutes queuing.

This was not an issue with the old MMR based leaderboard ranking in 2013-2014.

The problem is, without a certain amount of games played (=“grind”) you won’t get enough data for the MMR (measurement of “skill”) to become reasonably accurate. Just because a new player has won against a top player once, doesn’t mean, he is better. There are so many factors that desides the outcome of a match, not only the skill of an individual, therefore you can’t judge the skill of a player by a few games.

Wasn’t this an issue of the old leaderboard, where you sometimes had players with less than 10 games played at the top?

@UmbraNoctis The reason why you sometime saw players with 10 games at the top of the leaderboard was because Anet would wipe our game history but never touch our MMR. Those players with 10 to 20 games played were actually top tier players who just stop playing but decided to come back after a break. The problem we face during that time was MMR would not decay fast enough if you stop being active. Hence why players were able to be top 10 with barely any games played. The leaderboard was MMR base.

Ok, didn’t know this, because i just started playing GW2 back then and didn’t care much about the leaderboard.

But my point, that you somebody needs a decent amount of games played before you can tell something about his skill, remains.

“Sorry people you cant have SOLOQ because it will reduce the player base by dividing into 2 queues”
.
.
.
Proceeds to divide Ranked PvP into 6 queues.

GG.

There’s no such thing as 6 PvP Queue’s. The matchmaking algorithm will grab 4 players within your pip / mmr range and face you against a team within the same pip range. The system is working as intended. The only problem they should solve is prestige x # should not be consider another division range.

I do 40 games a day and I win 5 and I am not a new buy ( 3 years experience , 800k pvp rank points , 2900 Top stat awarded and ever top stat in the game) WHY THE HELL CAN NOT WIN ? I HAVE MADE AN kitten SO TO GET TO ’ ASCENSION PART 4 achivement AND NOW IM BLOCKED AND WHY I CAN NOT GET TO LEGENDARY FOR ’ ALL DO achivement ALLOYS IN A SEASON , I very much regret

Maybe you focus too much on those “top-stats” …

I’m where I should be , I leave the cap to the allies and decap when needed, the points do not just look at them , I only see the result at the end

Velosth.4573:

I do 40 games a day and I win 5 and I am not a new buy ( 3 years experience , 800k pvp rank points , 2900 Top stat awarded and ever top stat in the game) WHY THE HELL CAN NOT WIN ? I HAVE MADE AN kitten SO TO GET TO ’ ASCENSION PART 4 achivement AND NOW IM BLOCKED AND WHY I CAN NOT GET TO LEGENDARY FOR ’ ALL DO achivement ALLOYS IN A SEASON , I very much regret

From my experience if queues are bad one day, stop queuing, if theyre always bad at that time of the day, try playing at a different time.

LordKage.9135:

There’s no such thing as 6 PvP Queue’s. The matchmaking algorithm will grab 4 players within your pip / mmr range and face you against a team within the same pip range. The system is working as intended. The only problem they should solve is prestige x # should not be consider another division range.

I am sorry but 6 is a figure of divisions, but the reality is it’s way more than 6.

Because it’s a + or – 7 pips from yours… it means that if you queue, you will get a match based on that range…

Basically, it’s like dividing the queue by divisions.

You will never be able to show me screenshot of a full saphire team versus ruby or up.

But before league, you could be a team of avg rank 800 and meet team of avg rank of 80.

@Velosth.4573 @Ninski.5680

Please, this thread is for talking about the RANKING system.

Either Grind based or Skill based.

Everything else should be carried in another thread.

Thank you,

Wow… a great post about SKILL vs GRIND with some DEV answers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ruby-division-makes-people-hate-PvP/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ruby-division-makes-people-hate-PvP/page/4#post6049568

gloflop.3510:

First, thank you Jourdelune for the explanation of what mmr is. Now the important question is: Do you think it works as planned?

If I go back to last season where both teams were in my mmr range (if I understood it correctly). A game on the forest map started with one player running to close and 4 to the forest creature. After the forest creature was killed, both teams battled for mid. However, when I entered ruby (division 4), the dominant strategy changed entirely.

Now 1 player went close and 4 players went mid. Once close was captured, the player from close killed the forest creature.

I dont want to start a discussion about the optimal strategy. Let us for now assume that it is the division 4 strategy. Let us furthermore see my annecdote as a signal for better players in division 4, worse beyond. Last season we got ranked against players in our mmr and in our division (roughly). What happens now with my mmr in this situation? Since I play against better opponents and since there are some players improving strongly and enter diamond, I start losing more than I win. Hence, my mmr drops (as I said: paired against similar mmr).

Let us now compare my mmr before season 1 with after season 1. Am I higher, lower or equal?

Now the question again: Is mmr a fair representation of your skill?
Do you think, I am comparable before and after season 1?

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.
MMR is good enough to pair you with same skill for season 2. Why using it just for your team?

Ok…
IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose.

More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.
In a team game, MMR is not like in a single player game. Glicko 2 is an algorithm for chess…

Anet did fine tune this a lot.

From my past experiences in ranked play form 2013 and 2014, players that where top 200 where better than player that where 200-400 that were better than 400 to 600 and so on.

But… it was “generally”. I did recruit some guyz that had 90% ranked and in a week I could say he play like a 500. why? He played with casual players that where not trying to win that much, making mistakes a lot and so on…

Same… another flaw of MMR, is if you play with high MMR player, you will get high MMR opposing team too. So if you win, you raise your MMR. So part of the MMR is “social” based.

I’ve played with top 100 players that were really bad on rotations… that always peel on even fights with 3 or more players, and he played meta ele or engi. Yeah… bad players got carried by team leader saying goes there or goes there… and when that bad was not listening he got kick from his team but was able to sustain his MMR because his RANK was shown and other high RANK continue to play with him.

The decay on RANK was bad too. Need more finetuning.

But… this was way better than the grinding of WINS that gave us RANK since january 2015. Test season 1 and 2 were bad. League season 1 and 2 as well.

RANK should show who you can beat. Not how much game you wins.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

Jourdelune.7456:

This is a petition like post.

The one that chose a skill based system, +1 this post.

The one that chose a grind based system, please say why you think it’s best.

Skill based rank system, will give you a better rank if you beat somebody with a higher rank.

A grind based system, will give you a better rank, if you win a match.

Actually, our league system is a grind based system. You need to get PIPS to goes to Legendary, but you don’t need to be good to get there. It can take more times to goes there, but it’s not showing SKILL, it’s showing you get more TIME than others.

I know… Anet want to LURE pve grinders into sPvP to get a Legendary Backpiece pve items. This is because of that objective that Anet, is killing our match making system, killing our competitive community and making any Joe Blow a Legendary player.

I think that luring PVE players into sPvP is a good thing. But luring PVE grinders is not. Competitive system should give you incentives to get better, to play versus better teams and reap the reward of it.

So, I think that having our old Leaderboard 2014 skill based system back would be great to accomplish this.

To get the Legendary PVE Backpiece, I would ask a grind into the Legendary Division of many wins. That’s it.

So, skill based ranking system would remove PIPS from the LEAGUE.

Fix the division to the ranking of players:

Give Legendary to the top 1 to 200, Diamond to 201 to 400, Ruby to 401 to 600, Sapphire from 601 to 800, Emerald from 801 to 1000 and Amber are unranked.

Then we will get our BADGE and Legendary stuff to REALLY show our SKILLS.
Not because we did GRIND the SLOT MACHINE.

Anet will need to change some of the achievement because obviously people will go DOWN from one Division to the others and goes UP way more.

This propositions would remove the dualities of GRIND versus SKILLS and let people know that if you are a Legendary Players it’s because you can WIN versus them (usually more than 1 time).

Skill based system will help to grow the competitive community, because the REWARD (rank and division) would be given for the SKILL of the player. Incentives to play to get recognition of your SKILL into a game, is addictive because you need to get better (it take time and effort to do). Grinding games into a not so balanced (class and match-making) is not addictive and it is frustrating.

My proposition would cater to the PVE grinders (real hardcore players that want to get better) to get their Legendary and to the sPvP competitive players who want to get the REAL recognition of their SKILLS.

Thank you to +1 and make that thread live if you are really interested to show Anet if SKILL or GRIND will be our sPvP future.

+1

SKILL based system please!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-else-got-this-MMR-Hell-in-prestige/first#post6080160

MMR vs PIP range is unfair and not fun even for those at the top of the GRIND chain.

Now Trevor from LFG propose to get a Skill based ranked system.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Division-Representing-MMR-Directly/

Seriously, I prefer to grind games in a skill based ranking system. When you stop progressing, you still have to fights to keep your high rank.

Another post about this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Best-Suggestion-Ever-For-Ranked-Spvp

I have seen more, but I was not able to add them to the thread. A shame, it’s nice to put all options in the right “category”.

I’m not going to +1 because that’s a pretty shameless attempt at getting forum rep, but I would much rather see a skill based ranking system. If nothing else, it’d give me some idea of what level I actually play at.

With season 4 League, we heard many complains.

I think this post can bring more people by different actor. Our League perception should have changes since we have more experiences with it.

Does skill ranking is still an option compare to grind ranking?

Jourdelune.7456:

This is a petition like post.

Isn’t this against the ToS? or A-net’s policy? or something?