Guild Wars 2

Tracker.6483:

The need for Stability to keep from getting Feared or knocked back off to death is a bit rediculous.

As a Ranger, stability is only available every 2 minutes which makes me rage at this map. =)

Hi, i’m a ranger and am the number 1 cannon dominator NA. With various builds that involved stability every 50 seconds or so and some that have no stability both were equally as good.

Fun fact: we can have 50 seconds-ish of straight stability.

the only thing bad about skyhammer is the cannon

The map is a blast, and you can easily avoid getting knocked off and killed simply by being smart enough to pay attention to where you are. I mean why should a player have to pay attention to their positioning while they spam conditions. They might actually have to interrupt their spam for .25 seconds while they dodge.

So I guess the QQ players get their way.

If you really want to get down to it. there is no reason at all to even have a map rotation in tournaments. Its all exactly the same thing. 3 points with a side objective. No real difference at all. At least with the new map there was some change.

I think the real reason for all the QQ was simple. Its the only PVP map where people actually ran from a ranger because they had a longbow.

Audiogasm.7643:

To sorrow, as you don’t seem to understand i ll point out the flaw in your arguments.
First you said that being pushed out of the map to your death was a long serie of mistakes which is competitive and i would agree if that was true.
But i disagree because you can get push on only ONE mistake in this map, it is far too punishing.
You then say that making one single mistake and being hard punished for that is competitive -> first self contradiction. I point it out.
You then resay that it’s a a series of mistake -> second self contradiction.

That’s you that don’t understand what I say or you don’t want to understand.
I did not say that you can get pushed off on only ONE mistake. I’ve said that this map gives no room for errors, which means that you can’t afford to make errors because you’d die. Those are two different things.

Here’s my list of things you’ve done wrong if you get pushed off a cliff:

- Didn’t brought a proper stunbreaker
- Had no good positioning
- Had no stability on when you was in a dangerous spot
- Didn’t pushed off the enemy first
- Didn’t prevented the CC to be applied with any sort of blocks/invulnerability
- Didn’t teleported away from the ledge you fell from.

If you make all of these mistakes, then you fall off the cliff and die.

Audiogasm.7643:

Then if you can read, i said you usually fight for a node when out of cd, because it seems conquest is all about nodes, well maybe i was wrong and when an ennemy comes to contest my node i shall run in fear of him killing me because i got no cd.
Anyway you seem like the the type of personn who cannot handle a debat and recognise his flaws, or just a troll guys.
That’s my last answer to you, srry to others ppl for multiple posts.

I thought that you was talking about cannon fights, in which you can decide when to engage and when not.
Still, if you have your CCs on cooldown, you still made 5 of the 6 mistakes I’ve listed above.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Nice. Hopefully they don’t abandon it but make viable changes to balance it more.

Sure they will make changes… but first in 4 months we will see another new map(that gets removed from tournament rotation then)… maybe Spirit Watch will be back wich changes?(and maybe it will fail again).

Surely Skyhammer won’t be back in 4 months when a new map fails… cause Spirit Watch was not back months later when Skyhammer got released.

sorrow.2364:

Audiogasm.7643:

To sorrow, as you don’t seem to understand i ll point out the flaw in your arguments.
First you said that being pushed out of the map to your death was a long serie of mistakes which is competitive and i would agree if that was true.
But i disagree because you can get push on only ONE mistake in this map, it is far too punishing.
You then say that making one single mistake and being hard punished for that is competitive -> first self contradiction. I point it out.
You then resay that it’s a a series of mistake -> second self contradiction.

That’s you that don’t understand what I say or you don’t want to understand.
I did not say that you can get pushed off on only ONE mistake. I’ve said that this map gives no room for errors, which means that you can’t afford to make errors because you’d die. Those are two different things.

Here’s my list of things you’ve done wrong if you get pushed off a cliff:

- Didn’t brought a proper stunbreaker
- Had no good positioning
- Had no stability on when you was in a dangerous spot
- Didn’t pushed off the enemy first
- Didn’t prevented the CC to be applied with any sort of blocks/invulnerability
- Didn’t teleported away from the ledge you fell from.

If you make all of these mistakes, then you fall off the cliff and die.

Audiogasm.7643:

Then if you can read, i said you usually fight for a node when out of cd, because it seems conquest is all about nodes, well maybe i was wrong and when an ennemy comes to contest my node i shall run in fear of him killing me because i got no cd.
Anyway you seem like the the type of personn who cannot handle a debat and recognise his flaws, or just a troll guys.
That’s my last answer to you, srry to others ppl for multiple posts.

I thought that you was talking about cannon fights, in which you can decide when to engage and when not.
Still, if you have your CCs on cooldown, you still made 5 of the 6 mistakes I’ve listed above.

If it’s so easy to avoid getting CC’d then please tell me why EVERY top player loses his home point when engi comes pushing his far. And I’m not talking about losing the point after the engi won the 1on1 – no the point gets decapped in the first 10-20s just by CC. Do you srsly thing they want to get kicked out of their point? Stop posting your BS everywhere…

Konrad.9587:

7/26: Temple of the Silent Storm
(edited about 3 hours ago by Tyler Bearce.3427)

Skyhammer was scheduled to come back into tPvP map rotation on 26th of July. However, it seems that ArenaNet has acknowledged massive negative feedback regarding this map and decided to swap it for something more appropriate, like good old TotSS.

Hooray!

Honestly, I think it would be more “hooray!” worthy if they just tweaked a few things on the map and re-insert it into the rotation next month. New maps give the game more flavor and I like a map that has a very different meta than the others. Frankly, the lack of PvE elements in the map (you know, like forest and foe fire have npc’s that can end up determining a close match) is a ++++++++++ in my book and I consider it more PvP oriented. It is far from perfect, and probably needs some small adjustments before it gets put back in tPvP rotation, but I don’t think that this map should go the way of the Capricorn.

Because of few people who complained on these forums they decided to remove the map from rotation. Quite sad. I think the map was amazing and definitely the best so far. There was no need to change builds or anything, you just had to play good, use many tricks, and have fun. But yeah I guess what “top” players think is the most important.
The worst decision ever, after removing Spirit Watch from rotation. But whatever, let’s keep same old boring dull identical clone maps, let’s not have anything different where we can actually use a much larger diversity of builds.

They removed this map because it became something like this:
1) Elementalists running tornado and dominating the skyhammer, forcing you to leave the room until the skill wore off, or spam stability
2) Engineers running full tanky CC builds just trying to knock people down without even trying to kill their enemies in a standard way. Why would they, it’s faster to spam your knockbacks anyway
3) Guardians running hammer/sceptershield, but this is pretty normal anyway on other maps so it’s fine
4) Mesmers running greatsword/swordfocus, but again, it is normal on the other maps…however, usually mesmers at least attempt to kill you, now they just focus pull your entire team down (if there is more than one up at the cannon)
5) Necromancers spamming fear or running spectral grasp to pull you down on side point, good luck fighting with your back to the wall if they can just pull you
6) Rangers running fear pets and knockback weapons, when the day before they were all BM with either feline or bird pets and no one would use longbow (because it sucks)
7) Thieves pulling you down with scorpion wire from stealth, because they suck and can’t kill you 1v1 even with cheesy S/D builds
8) Warriors running Stomp…who the kitten ever used stomp before? Or even fear shout which hasn’t been used for like 6 months at least

In the end the main focus became to just push people off the edge, no one was trying to kill people, only to push them down. And this is a PvP game, not a gold mini-game.
This is all of course because the secondary mechanic, the kitten Ion Cannon, is too strong and forces you to stupid cc fights up there.

And it’s not “a few” people who complained, all my friends hate it and were refusing to play on it, competitive teams stopped playing on it after like the first day, everyone was complaining about how stupid of a map it was. Hell even my team, after the first day in which I was the only one complaining, started saying how kittenty that map is.

tarcheg.4872:

If it’s so easy to avoid getting CC’d then please tell me why EVERY top player loses his home point when engi comes pushing his far. And I’m not talking about losing the point after the engi won the 1on1 – no the point gets decapped in the first 10-20s just by CC. Do you srsly thing they want to get kicked out of their point? Stop posting your BS everywhere…

First off, chill out. Nobody insulted you and there is no need to do so.
Where did you get the information that every top player loses his home point when an engi come?
This is a completely false statement.
I don’t know if you’ve checked the latest TP stream, but it didn’t looked like they got outplayer each time an engi came in their point, neither Caed, who posted a video of him getting outplayed, isn’t getting outplayed anymore.

You are just making up facts to prove a wrong point.

BrunoBRS.5178:

why is having a different meta on a different map such a bad thing? why should they nerf and buff skills all around (effectively ruining any semblance of balance in the process) just to make sure the meta is always the same stale thing on all maps?

embrace variety. if anything, multiple metas keep PvP fresh.

As i said in my post, I do enjoy the occasional game on Skyhammer, but tPvP is supposed to be balanced and currently all the classes are balanced around the “old” maps.

Look at classes like Ranger/Thief that have a single knockback or pull (im not counting the wolf’s fear, since with the cast time and the reliance on the AI positioning itself correctly it’s pure luck to fear someone off).

And then take a look at classes like the Necromancer with multiple fears and a pull.

sorrow.2364:

tarcheg.4872:

If it’s so easy to avoid getting CC’d then please tell me why EVERY top player loses his home point when engi comes pushing his far. And I’m not talking about losing the point after the engi won the 1on1 – no the point gets decapped in the first 10-20s just by CC. Do you srsly thing they want to get kicked out of their point? Stop posting your BS everywhere…

First off, chill out. Nobody insulted you and there is no need to do so.
Where did you get the information that every top player loses his home point when an engi come?
This is a completely false statement.
I don’t know if you’ve checked the latest TP stream, but it didn’t looked like they got outplayer each time an engi came in their point, neither Caed, who posted a video of him getting outplayed, isn’t getting outplayed anymore.

You are just making up facts to prove a wrong point.

Did you watch any streams recently? If you would do so you would know that I’m not making up anything and engis do decap the point against anything with no stab in a few seconds. That’s a fact not something I made up.

Rengaru.4730:

As i said in my post, I do enjoy the occasional game on Skyhammer, but tPvP is supposed to be balanced and currently all the classes are balanced around the “old” maps.

Look at classes like Ranger/Thief that have a single knockback or pull (im not counting the wolf’s fear, since with the cast time and the reliance on the AI positioning itself correctly it’s pure luck to fear someone off).

And then take a look at classes like the Necromancer with multiple fears and a pull

You’re not seeing the whole picture.

It’s true, Necromancers have more pulls and fears, but they have no reliable access to stability. Ranger, on the other hand, have an Amazing 20s stability as elite.

Also, Thief and Rangers are the two profession with better repositioning and evading capabilities in this game.

When a Necro is in the wrong spot (for instance, next to a cliff), he has no tools to get away from that point so it will be probably pushed off, which doesn’t happens for a ranger or a thief.

tarcheg.4872:

Did you watch any streams recently? If you would do so you would know that I’m not making up anything and engis do decap the point against anything with no stab in a few seconds. That’s a fact not something I made up.

Yes and I haven’t seen any good player being outplayed by an engineer if they avoid to make any obvious mistake.

Brilliant! This is the best news I’ve heard all week. Now I can show this thread to my friend and he’ll likely come back to the game.

It’s shocking, really, that I’ve had friends rage quit so hard over this map they’ve literally quit PVP. I hope they make balance changes and adjust the level of gimmicks.

sorrow.2364:

You’re not seeing the whole picture.

It’s true, Necromancers have more pulls and fears, but they have no reliable access to stability. Ranger, on the other hand, have an Amazing 20s stability as elite.

Also, Thief and Rangers are the two profession with better repositioning and evading capabilities in this game.

When a Necro is in the wrong spot (for instance, next to a cliff), he has no tools to get away from that point so it will be probably pushed off, which doesn’t happens for a ranger or a thief.

You obviously havn’t seen/played a Necro on this map.

Necro has stability on 2/3 of his elites and can trait it on Death Shroud.
Also stability (especially with long duration), is getting ripped off on this Map like nowhere else.

Also necro has Spectral Walk, which is not only a stun breaker, but if used correctly can teleport you back up when you get knocked down.

Rengaru.4730:

sorrow.2364:

You’re not seeing the whole picture.

It’s true, Necromancers have more pulls and fears, but they have no reliable access to stability. Ranger, on the other hand, have an Amazing 20s stability as elite.

Also, Thief and Rangers are the two profession with better repositioning and evading capabilities in this game.

When a Necro is in the wrong spot (for instance, next to a cliff), he has no tools to get away from that point so it will be probably pushed off, which doesn’t happens for a ranger or a thief.

You obviously havn’t seen/played a Necro on this map.

Necro has stability on 2/3 of his elites and can trait it on Death Shroud.
Also stability (especially with long duration), is getting ripped off on this Map like nowhere else.

Also necro has Spectral Walk, which is not only a stun breaker, but if used correctly can teleport you back up when you get knocked down.

I have.
Yes, necro have stability on 2/3 of his elites, but those are transformation. Either the stability is ripped in a second, as you correctly said, or they will just sit in a trasformation with no utility or healing skills, which means they can’t know you off.

Yes, Spectral Walk is good.
But, as I said, it all goes down to the fact that Necros haven’t good tools to change their positioning fast to not get knocked off.
They can’t even block/evade the CCs, excluding the normal dodge.

I am pretty sure ArenaNet are not ones to make knee-jerk reactions to changes right away. There has been feedback both good and bad and I’m sure all of them have been read. In the end it seems, they decided to move it out of rotations, however, they did not remove it from the current tpvp rotation which means they want more feedback but want to hold off on the controversial issues of it being competitive. Ideally, they’ll take a look at the design again and address some of the concerns that were brought up and see if there is a way around it to balance it more.

sorrow.2364:

Yes, necro have stability on 2/3 of his elites, but those are transformation. Either the stability is ripped in a second, as you correctly said, or they will just sit in a trasformation with no utility or healing skills, which means they can’t know you off.

Also you are pretty much perma blinded (Plague) and can’t knock off any other players (or even remove the stability from the Necro) reliably.

Plague in the small confines of the Skyhammer room is pretty much a game-changer in teamfights.

Also I like how you completely ignored the “free” Stability on Death Shroud every 10 seconds.

sorrow.2364:

But, as I said, it all goes down to the fact that Necros haven’t good tools to change their positioning fast to not get knocked off.
They can’t even block/evade the CCs, excluding the normal dodge.

And neither can Ranger, if they use Longbow (their only knockback) for that matter.

Before this escallates, this is not a “Necro so OP, Nerf plz” post, I just want to show the inherrent flaws of a Map that rewards CC over anything else.
And even though all of those flaws, I still like this map, but it should not be used for tPvP which is supposed to have a fair balance.

Rengaru.4730:

sorrow.2364:

Yes, necro have stability on 2/3 of his elites, but those are transformation. Either the stability is ripped in a second, as you correctly said, or they will just sit in a trasformation with no utility or healing skills, which means they can’t know you off.

Also you are pretty much perma blinded (Plague) and can’t knock off any other players (or even remove the stability from the Necro) reliably.

Plague in the small confines of the Skyhammer room is pretty much a game-changer in teamfights.

Also I like how you completely ignored the “free” Stability on Death Shroud every 10 seconds.

sorrow.2364:

But, as I said, it all goes down to the fact that Necros haven’t good tools to change their positioning fast to not get knocked off.
They can’t even block/evade the CCs, excluding the normal dodge.

And neither can Ranger, if they use Longbow (their only knockback) for that matter.

Before this escallates, this is not a “Necro so OP, Nerf plz” post, I just want to show the inherrent flaws of a Map that rewards CC over anything else.
And even though all of those flaws, I still like this map, but it should not be used for tPvP which is supposed to have a fair balance.

The free stability in Death Shroud isn’t that much reliable. You need Life Force to have access to it.

Also, Plague isn’t an harm. The damage is low and its capabilities are only defensive. You can just keep using the skyhammer while the enemy Necro is in plague, completely ignoring him.

If we have to say it all, rangers are in a bad spot even in the standard tPvP, which isn’t balanced.
In this map they have their tools to succed in (the wolf fear is AoE and, in the skyhammer room it is incredibly strong). The imbalance isn’t bigger than the one we are used to see in any other tPvP map.

Rengaru.4730:

Before this escallates, this is not a “Necro so OP, Nerf plz” post, I just want to show the inherrent flaws of a Map that rewards CC over anything else.
And even though all of those flaws, I still like this map, but it should not be used for tPvP which is supposed to have a fair balance.

While I agree that the map needs tweaking, I think your logic in saying that a “Map that rewards CC over anything else” is inherently more flawed than the other maps is missing the mark.

Pre-Sky Hammer CC bunkering was already the meta. Guardian Bunkers that sustain and CC people off node are on nearly every team. Does this mean that we should throw out all of the maps and give up because a control bunker Guard is too strong on those maps and will dictate the meta? Honestly I would argue that Sky Hammer is probably MORE balanced in this particular regard, because EVERY CLASS has the capability to push out fall deaths fairly frequently, where it was extremely difficult to bunker as well as a Guardian can on all of the other maps.

Is Sky Hammer good for competitive play the way it is right now? No. I don’t believe it is. Is it balanced though? Yes. I think it actually is pretty well balanced.

sorrow.2364:

The free stability in Death Shroud isn’t that much reliable. You need Life Force to have access to it.

You can easily jump into Death Shround to recieve the stability, pop Doom and leave it in under 1 second, if you do that Life Force will never run out unless you use Death Shroud to tank.

sorrow.2364:

Also, Plague isn’t an harm. The damage is low and its capabilities are only defensive. You can just keep using the skyhammer while the enemy Necro is in plague, completely ignoring him.

You don’t pop Plague against a single enemy (especially when he’s at the cannon and a sitting duck to your fears). You use it when assaulting the cannon with your team where it makes enemy CC unreliable while your team is free to knock the enemies off.

sorrow.2364:

If we have to say it all, rangers are in a bad spot even in the standard tPvP, which isn’t balanced.
In this map they have their tools to succed in (the wolf fear is AoE and, in the skyhammer room it is incredibly strong). The imbalance isn’t bigger than the one we are used to see in any other tPvP map.

Thats excactly why they should leave Skyhammer from tPvP rotation and concentrate their balancing efforts on one meta, not two (in case this got lost during the argument: this thred is still about Skyhammer being a tPvP map).

edit

While I agree that the map needs tweaking, I think your logic in saying that a “Map that rewards CC over anything else” is inherently more flawed than the other maps is missing the mark.

Pre-Sky Hammer CC bunkering was already the meta. Guardian Bunkers that sustain and CC people off node are on nearly every team. Does this mean that we should throw out all of the maps and give up because a control bunker Guard is too strong on those maps and will dictate the meta? Honestly I would argue that Sky Hammer is probably MORE balanced in this particular regard, because EVERY CLASS has the capability to push out fall deaths fairly frequently, where it was extremely difficult to bunker as well as a Guardian can on all of the other maps.

Is Sky Hammer good for competitive play the way it is right now? No. I don’t believe it is. Is it balanced though? Yes. I think it actually is pretty well balanced.

IMO there is a huge difference between a CC enabling a decap, and outright killing someone (enabling a decap and probably even a cap on top of the 5 points and taking an enemy out for ~30 seconds).

Yes, every class has some CC, but there is a large gap between them (look at sorrow and my previous posts for an example).

My point is: “you either need a separate rebalancing for this specific map, or you leave it the way it is and just keep it out from tPvP”

Tbh i just think there is too much going on, having to be aware of the edges, enemies platforms about to shatter and massive 10k cannon is near enough impossible for everyone

personally i love skyhammer. (the jumping platforms may be the coolest LOS I’ve ever managed.)

The solution is to remove the shattering panels or implementing a barrier around the edge of the maps. this stops CC heavy professions having an insane amount of ways to instagib the enemy while still allowing few ways for death by troll (do not deny how satisfying this can be! :p)

in terms of layout the panels at the cannon control end need to go, the area is confined enough without any available LOS leaving melee with push/pulls stupidly OP.
Having the portal in the center is genius though! it leaves the controller very susceptible attack which is justified by how much the cannon controls the battleground

Rengaru.4730:

You can easily jump into Death Shround to recieve the stability, pop Doom and leave it in under 1 second, if you do that Life Force will never run out unless you use Death Shroud to tank.

Death Shroud is a core part of Necromancer’s survivability. Using Death Shroud just to pop in and out has proved to not be a so good tactic.

Rengaru.4730:

You don’t pop Plague against a single enemy (especially when he’s at the cannon and a sitting duck to your fears). You use it when assaulting the cannon with your team where it makes enemy CC unreliable while your team is free to knock the enemies off.

Plague has been capable to hold off multiple people in any map, not only in this one.
The advantage of skyhammer platform is that you can disengage at will using the portal and waiting Plague to end.
It is pretty much like Moa Morph, there isn’t nothing you can really do against.

Rengaru.4730:

Thats excactly why they should leave Skyhammer from tPvP rotation and concentrate their balancing efforts on one meta, not two (in case this got lost during the argument: this thred is still about Skyhammer being a tPvP map).

I’m of another opinion.
Skyhammer is much more fun to play and to watch, even people who want it out from tPvP rotation agree with that. If they would concentrating resources at balancing around a map, they should focus on Skyhammer for said reason.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

uberkingkong, please stop with your unaccurate posts and with your childish behaviour like saying “L2P” and stuff like that. That said the competitive scene is happy about the outtake of Skyhammer in the tournament rotation.

Really because most of the people that I play with competitively are really sad to see it go. Please don’t speak for the entire “competitive” community. Also thieves were amazing on this map…. If you weren’t then its a personal problem not a map problem

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

………That said the competitive scene is happy about the outtake of Skyhammer in the tournament rotation.

Really because most of the people that I play with competitively are really sad to see it go. Please don’t speak for the entire “competitive” community. Also thieves were amazing on this map…. If you weren’t then its a personal problem not a map problem

No reason for a kitten ing contest fellas. My impression is that the majority of the competitive community doesn’t want this map in the rotation, but it is far from a unanimous opinion, and I would go so far as to say that it seems to be a slight majority. There are plenty of competitive players that really like this map, but when they have team mates that hate the map so much it isn’t fun for anyone, so they sit out a few days. No big deal.

I called that Skyhammer would not be an ideal tPvP map when I read the “leaked” notes from reddit. They’re not really leaks, but information that you can get from the .dat file.
Having a huge hammer that deals loads of dmg and takes no skill to control will never be competitive.
It can still be a lot of fun in hot-join but with a secondary mechanic like this, I don’t believe it will ever be a competitive map.
ToTSS has been the only decent new map, but unfortunately it takes too long to sort out the water issues.

Derps.7421:

I seriously think these two are the same account and they also only started tpvping because the map was skyhammer

I doubt anyone actually started tpvping because of this map, if anything I’ve noticed a vast increase in the time I spend in the queue so my personal experience is that theres far fewer people playing now than before craphammer came around.

Quite interesting how people suddenly use their knockbacks while they seem to have decided that these same skills are utterly useless on other maps where there is just as much use for them(albeit not instagibb material).

KarlaGrey.5903:

BrunoBRS.5178:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Somewhat you sound as if pvp was about playing vs AI, which is incapable of adapting its playstyle to capitalize on what their opponent can and cannot do.
Also, some ppl need to stop jumping to conclusions and throw around l2p’s just for the sake of it. OR was my wording in the above post so incomprehensible that I need to break it down for you?

just like the enemy can adapt, so can you. “l2p” is a simple (albeit rude) way to point out that if the enemy can avoid your CC and CC you, then you can also avoid their CC and CC them. there’s nothing only accessible to certain players. just make sure you do it better than them.

Oh yea, in a perfect world everyone has the same amount of access to CC, counter-CC, the same amount of AoE skills, mobility skills and whatnot to work around it. As much as we love to use l2p, it is not always the underlying cause of a certain issue.
Mind that my original post here merely hinted that it MIGHT be a bit too much, but the reaction post decided instead to hop to conclusions and pull a l2p on me.

Anyhow, it appears this map is all about being first at exhausting their CC/anti-CC options to determine the winner. Sort of reminds one of duals vs terror necros, an occurence which however seems to be rather detested amongst the community.
On one side, you hear screams of agony regarding fear chains, on the other you hear exclamations of joy when players use similar tools to land an insta gib.
How peculiar.

And yes, I haven’t even played the map yet, nor do I know when I will. However judging from all the options a thief has to jump to, I doubt I’ll be particularly amused once I give it a go, and I’m not a fan of being tossed around like a golf ball either.

i play exclusively a thief on sPvP/tPvP, and i love skyhammer.

you don’t need the same amount of CC and counter CC. you just need different tactics.

thief, for example, can pull every 20 seconds (less if traited), has a wide array of immobilizes and CC traps, and most importantly, you can stealth, and you can use stealth for something other than running away and backstab (shocking i know). and that’s not even counting all the emergency GTFO buttons (aka shadowsteps) and easy access to infinite dodges.

it’s all about making the best of what you have available to you. i bet that most thieves don’t even realize that tripwire is a thing, or that scorpion wire can be useful for something beyond interrupts. each class has to work differently towards the new meta, but too many people are acting as if CC is something you just can’t dodge or counter. the meta changes on this map, but it’s not like the balance is broken.

and yes, successfully pulling someone to their deaths with scorpion wire puts a smile on my face, but it’s not without its risks: glass panels that can get you killed are all near the edges of the map, so if you’re not careful, you’ll get killed.

Derps.7421:

uberkingkong.8041:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

You know what every profession is capable of doing, if you don’t want to get feared off fight with your back towards the wall. If you don’t want to get pulled into a pit don’t be in the vicinity of the pull as well as don’t have a pit in-between you and your foe. Seriously some people need to stop whining and L2P.

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Funny. Because I don’t have a skill that pulls someone, but when I get chased like that, I just run over the glass and the glass breaks by time hes on it. You know what, that guy that fell needs to pay attention to detail. As well as when I bunker side nodes I always keep the glass broken and I’ve been playing necro now because I place a mark on it so I deal some damage and get credit now when people just run into a pit because they didn’t expect the glass to be broken.

People just need to learn to pay attention to detail you’ll get outplayed if you don’t.

Here’s a tip for you, 9/10 when someone breaks the glass on purpose in the middle of the fight, they are setting you up for something, so be ready for it.

uberkingkong.8041:

kitten s.7421:

uberkingkong.8041:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

You know what every profession is capable of doing, if you don’t want to get feared off fight with your back towards the wall. If you don’t want to get pulled into a pit don’t be in the vicinity of the pull as well as don’t have a pit in-between you and your foe. Seriously some people need to stop whining and L2P.

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Funny. Because I don’t have a skill that pulls someone, but when I get chased like that, I just run over the glass and the glass breaks by time hes on it. You know what, that guy that fell needs to pay attention to detail. As well as when I bunker side nodes I always keep the glass broken and I’ve been playing necro now because I place a mark on it so I deal some damage and get credit now when people just run into a pit because they didn’t expect the glass to be broken.

People just need to learn to pay attention to detail you’ll get outplayed if you don’t.

Here’s a tip for you, 9/10 when someone breaks the glass on purpose in the middle of the fight, they are setting you up for something, so be ready for it.

Most of the people complaining about how this map sucks aren’t those n00bs you’re used to fight against in 8vs8 hotjoins and that would run into a necro mark.

Shar.3402:

uberkingkong.8041:

kitten s.7421:

uberkingkong.8041:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

You know what every profession is capable of doing, if you don’t want to get feared off fight with your back towards the wall. If you don’t want to get pulled into a pit don’t be in the vicinity of the pull as well as don’t have a pit in-between you and your foe. Seriously some people need to stop whining and L2P.

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Funny. Because I don’t have a skill that pulls someone, but when I get chased like that, I just run over the glass and the glass breaks by time hes on it. You know what, that guy that fell needs to pay attention to detail. As well as when I bunker side nodes I always keep the glass broken and I’ve been playing necro now because I place a mark on it so I deal some damage and get credit now when people just run into a pit because they didn’t expect the glass to be broken.

People just need to learn to pay attention to detail you’ll get outplayed if you don’t.

Here’s a tip for you, 9/10 when someone breaks the glass on purpose in the middle of the fight, they are setting you up for something, so be ready for it.

Most of the people complaining about how this map sucks aren’t those n00bs you’re used to fight against in 8vs8 hotjoins and that would run into a necro mark.

If theres only 2 ways to enter and theres necro marks blocking on both sides, you have no choice but to run into them, due to the fact that they didn’t do anything significant you’ll likely run into the one before the glass and that’s where it’ll get ya. But yes theres always some people out there that stop to think about whats going on, those are the ones paying attention to detail and the people that don’t get outplayed as much.

When I do this I don’t stand on the node, I hide myself and watch because standing on it gives away yourself, when it seems like nobodies home you don’t feel threatened and you let your guard down.

All the other maps the camper is visible but this map you have to actually look up and around to see if there’s anyone home because this map is very camper friendly and not a lot of people are doing this but as I play this more I see people starting to look around.

Dont pretend the whiners caused this. Of course forum input has value to them. But my guess is their metrics showed a decrease in how many people played the new map after a few days. A huge drop off would lead them to decide to cancel this map essentially.

I would be shocked if a huge drop hasn’t happened. The community isn’t huge and basically everyone I know quit as a result of this map.

it could be really good with slightly less damage and radius on cannon, much bigger cannon platform and less breakable floors overall(like 1/3 of what it is now.)

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

Barring a radical revamp, no, you’re not.

Also, what was the justification for keeping out a more traditional map like Spirit Watch but including Skyhammer? How did that seem logical to the developers?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

i’ll be eagerly awaiting its return, i hope the changes aren’t too drastic

i don’t think anyone thinks the map is currently perfect. it does need tweaks and adjustments. the problem is that half the community is “yeah, just a detail here and there, a mechanical change to this, some number adjustments and voila”, and the other half is “GET IT OUT OF HERE IT SHAMES THE REPUTATION OF GUILD WARS 2 AS A GAME OH GOD WHY DOES IT EXIST”

You’re reading too much into that post. It’s not coming back, especially after the upcoming ridicule the map will receive in the next State of the Game. It would take a total revamp to bring it back.

Lopez.7369:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

Barring a radical revamp, no, you’re not.

Also, what was the justification for keeping out a more traditional map like Spirit Watch but including Skyhammer? How did that seem logical to the developers?

i think that’s the 20th time i’ve said it, but when introducing a new map, it goes straight to tPvP to gather as much relevant feedback as possible, and then it’s taken out (unless the makitten omehow perfect and universally praised, but lol at the PvP community being unanimously pleased with anything).

if they had put it on hotjoins only, how many of you would’ve played it? how many would’ve played it on a 5v5 tournament emulation scenario? yeah, not many.

Lopez.7369:

You’re reading too much into that post. It’s not coming back, especially after the upcoming ridicule the map will receive in the next State of the Game.

1- keep thinking that

2- temple was dropped from tournament rotation until adjustments were made.

Tournament matches involve a ladder. They cannot be used for testing.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lopez.7369:

You’re reading too much into that post. It’s not coming back, especially after the upcoming ridicule the map will receive in the next State of the Game.

1- keep thinking that

2- temple was dropped from tournament rotation until adjustments were made.

Temple and Skyhammer aren’t remotely comparable.

I’m not “thinking” anything; I know it to be true. If Skyhammer is brought up in the next SOTG, it will receive so much ridicule that the developers will never consider touting it as a viable option ever again.

I understand you like the map so you’re optimistic about it, but the clear majority opinion won out in this case.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

i’ll be eagerly awaiting its return, i hope the changes aren’t too drastic

i don’t think anyone thinks the map is currently perfect. it does need tweaks and adjustments. the problem is that half the community is “yeah, just a detail here and there, a mechanical change to this, some number adjustments and voila”, and the other half is “GET IT OUT OF HERE IT SHAMES THE REPUTATION OF GUILD WARS 2 AS A GAME OH GOD WHY DOES IT EXIST”

Some people are perfectly happy the way it is.

You remind me of that poll. The choices were like “can be tpvp if changed a little bit” “can never be tpvp”, theres no options “perfectly happy the way it is”

I’ve never actually been a vocal proponent of adding more game modes (I actually prefer Conquest), but since the release of Skyhammer, and looking back on the semi-failed attempt of Spirit Watch, I can’t help but think that these two maps in particular might be better served by removing the Conquest/Capture Point mechanics entirely so people can focus more on the havoc and mayhem that comes from the secondary objective and distinct map mechanics themselves. In short, why not just let Spirit Watch be capture the flag, and Skyhammer a bumper-cars-style King of Hill?

This seems like a “two birds, one stone” opportunity for ANet. People have been wanting different game modes for a while, and these two maps in particular seem to struggle only because of the requisite conquest mechanics, so why not remove the troublesome conquest portions and let people have their fun on a non-conquest map? They don’t have to be part of ranked matches necessarily, and to be honest nobody really plays ranked matches like they mean anything these days anyways because for all intents and purposes…. they don’t mean anything – leaderboard is worthless, and the “real” tourneys are held in custom arenas and make no actual reference to the leaderboard or ranks.

So my suggestion is, why not just stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes and let them be what they actually are, which is what a lot of people want anyways i.e. new game modes?

I dunno, just my .02

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

I will say this.

Removing a map because a group of players are all running the single most powerful build their class has is sad. If anything adding maps where people cannot just run OP build 1 or 2 is a very good thing for PVP. It promotes players actually having to diversify a bit.

As soon as I target a player in any tournament I am in I can tell by the class Icon almost exactly what they are going to be bringing to the fight, and that is not how it should be. If I see a Guardian coming at me I know its going to be one of 2 basic builds and the weapons they have on usually give that away before they even attack. Same with almost any other class, and that is boring.

There are so many issues with Class balance I couldn’t even begin to get into it all, but giving in to a group of OP meta only players that demand people in their groups run cookiecutter class builds because they are “the best” is a very bad idea.

I know Why Necro’s are mad about Skyhammer. Their OP FOTM build can get aced by a smart player with a knock back so they can’t just run in and LOLspam conditions and win.

Players have to use utility skills with stability in them or they can get knocked off an edge to their doom, and that breaks up their Pavlovian attacks, but the worst part of it is Rangers that are not playing BM can actually win on this map. Not because of some new super secret build, but because of the difference in levels and more room to actually be able to use their weapons to a real advantage for a change.

If there is this much QQ about a single map because people might actually have to improvise and think their way through a fight. What will happen if Anet actually brings in real class balance where there is no FOTM ROFLstomp class/build?

I can honestly say that I had more fun running Skyhammer tournaments the other night than I have had in months on the other maps. My whole team was so busy laughing and having fun that we totally forgot about the score many times and were just playing to have fun. Heaven forbid people have fun playing instead of nerd raging over someone that has the wrong master trait in their tournament team.

I really love this map =), please bring it back to the rotation. If you change something at least please keep point A and C as they are now It s so much fun to fight there. It s really nice that you can use the map in your advantage and everyone can make someone fall. If you are paying attentionv you can avoid being pulled to death. It s really nice that you can play with your sorrounding and use different tactics than other maps because all the other maps feel almost as if they are the same except from spirit watch but it s not in the rotation so i don t count it.

Please make more maps like this, that require something different because the other maps feel like doing the same over and over again.

And please dont make anything to the blue pannels, or edges from the map in general, that s what makes it feel different. If you need to balance the cannon or the cannon room it s ok, but the rest of the map it s fine as it is now, maybee you can make point A and C reachable by the jumping pad behind them.

And for the cannon room, may be ir will be good if you make something to avoid putting things just infront of the portal and add some distance between the portal and the first blue pannel and make the room just a little wider, not much.

But to be honest i m really happy as it is now =). It s my favourite map, I have more fun here than in any other map.

HALLELUIAH! This is good news!

Oh noes crybabies have won :/ . Only change that could be done is make canon dodgeable. Anything else will destroy map and will make it not so fun anymore.

Got me thinking why cant they react so fast with split solo/premade queue, where the action is truly needed …..

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve taken Skyhammer out of the tournament rotation while we evaluate all of the feedback we’ve received over the last few days. The map may return to the rotation after we’ve made one (or more) adjustments to it.

Woo! I’m really excited to play this map more in tournaments. Don’t listen to the naysayers who want the same old kitten over again. It’s a step in the right direction.

Those 2 days playing skyhammer 40 games played solo que, never once did I face a full premade. 10 games played today, 3 premades faced…

You only face premades when theres not enough people online…

If theres not enough people online and this happens, goes to show skyhammer was actually fun and a lot of people aren’t pvping anymore because all the fun is gone.

You tell me if removing skyhammer was good a thing.

only bad thing was cannon control room, portal needs to go and it have to be more easy to attack and people not dying when they drop (yeah you can drop down and stay alive with no way out)