Guild Wars 2

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

hackks.3687:

jportell.2197:

Because once people start thinking tactically and countering timewarp then people will also stop using timewarp and diversity will come as a result of player decisions… Also by waiting for the game developers to give us DIVERSITY really shows a lack of adaptability… There is a saying Improvise, Adapt, Overcome…. It is applicable here people just have a sense of entitlement because they lost when the feel they shouldn’t have…

… this is hilariously hypocritical.

you’re essentially telling everyone else to L2P so you don’t have to. Everyone else needs to think creatively about THEIR tactics, THEIR ability to counter, THEIR ability to adapt, THEIR ability to diversify. All so you don’t have to figure out how to carry on with a toned down version of TW.

Hilarious.

A toned down version thats fine reduce the length that it is at…. Half it. I am getting at the people that are screaming for it to be removed… If I have to fight a warrior and wasted my endurance I am screwed. I think tactically I enjoy small team play I assess enemies that I am about to face and if I can get the drop on them because they are un aware of their surroundings good for me… If they get the drop on me because I wasn’t look around or if I get backstabbed by I thief that I see stealth because I wasn’t strafing or stun breaking I deserved it. I think on my feet when I play… The people asking for the removal/reduction of this skill are asking for it from a team of developers that still have not addressed in game bugs that have been there since launch… So if something is working as designed let it work as designed and once they get all the traits effects and so on working properly then lets adjust balance from there because then we will have a full perspective of what is and what is not balanced.

Dude. 95% of all game breaking bugs have been fixed. You’re just making stuff up defending a blatantly overpowered elite at this point. I’m perfectly happy with it being 5 seconds. I don’t want to see it nerfed into the ground and I don’t want to see mesmers kicked out of team comps because of a time warp nerf. All I want is a bit of balance.

And to the above poster regarding guardians, it’s a far more complicated effort to reign in the king of bunkers. Time warp is a simple fix to an extremely powerful ability that when coupled with the already powerful portal can make a mesmers presence felt with very little effort or time spent in the fight.

Game breaking Bugs? Lets take mesmers phantasmal haste… DOESN"T WORK… DUELIST DISCIPLINE TRAIT… Increases range and decreases cool down but does NOT increase power. In fact decreases power of the mesmer pistol skills. Stealth is supposed to be similar VERY VERY similar for thieves and mesmers but mesmers cannot stack stealth like thieves… A thief can pop stealth skill after stealth skill while in stealth and not break out… If a mesmer drops a stealth skill while still in another it doesn’t stack in fact the second skill is completely negate… hmmm… deceptive evasion doesn’t have the clone focus on the target that the mesmer is targeted on instead it just auto-targets… And this is a SMALL list from the class I am most familiar with… So yeah there are a lot of BUGS that need worked out for the mesmer class that would help make other builds viable but as it stands we are pigeon holed into using certain builds because they are the least “buggy” for our class…. don’t talk to me about fixed bugs with this man…

Why the QQ all state the 10sec AoE quickness but none of you state the CD??? Because it’s just fine when you look at the CD 210sec for 10sec buff. If you want reduce to half like 5sec TW sure but reduce the the CD to half that’s what something to trade of with.. 10sec every 210sec? how long spvp/tpvp last per match? how many TW will up and break your team? not count the mesmer down or TW got counter. That’s why there’s thief job > cutting the mesmer before reach point capture and use TW, that’s why there’s necro turn Boon into Condition and AoE condition in area. alot of counter for TW. Please learn and play more before you QQing and keep ask a nerf for certain class. 10sec buff for 210sec cd you do the math how many % the up time during single spvp/tpvp match i bet yall QQer better in counting paper…
Or just simply remove the unique class from the game if you can’t accept something untraditional class like a mesmer..

[NOTE] Instead of asking a nerf to one class to the other why don’t you guys ask dev Anet to fix the broken skill/trait/sigil that not working properly at the moment? fix the bugs then we talk about the balance. If no fix and keep changing stuff, the more Anet change the more bugs coming.

-sorry english isn’t my 1st languages-

iNsane.5028:

Why the QQ all state the 10sec AoE quickness but none of you state the CD??? Because it’s just fine when you look at the CD 210sec for 10sec buff. If you want reduce to half like 5sec TW sure but reduce the the CD to half that’s what something to trade of with.. 10sec every 210sec? how long spvp/tpvp last per match? how many TW will up and break your team? not count the mesmer down or TW got counter. That’s why there’s thief job > cutting the mesmer before reach point capture and use TW, that’s why there’s necro turn Boon into Condition and AoE condition in area. alot of counter for TW. Please learn and play more before you QQing and keep ask a nerf for certain class. 10sec buff for 210sec cd you do the math how many % the up time during single spvp/tpvp match i bet yall QQer better in counting paper…
Or just simply remove the unique class from the game if you can’t accept something untraditional class like a mesmer..

[NOTE] Instead of asking a nerf to one class to the other why don’t you guys ask dev Anet to fix the broken skill/trait/sigil that not working properly at the moment? fix the bugs then we talk about the balance. If no fix and keep changing stuff, the more Anet change the more bugs coming.

-sorry english isn’t my 1st languages-

They don’t bring up its cooldown for the same reason they don’t bring up the ways to counter it – like using reflection to destroy the TW’d group.

Because they don’t actually know and haven’t taken the time to consider it.

Lol at the afraid mesmer players trying to defend this op kitten..Like having 210 sec cd is called balance..In a game that if you lose the team fight you get snowballed it doesn’t matter how much cooldowns a game changing skill has.Besides developing strategies to counter an op elite doesnt mean crap.I can develop strats that counter people trying to counter my time warp..Time wrap can be used for defence aswell like clutchy rezzes,stomps healing and also it can make other elites godly..
Its just too strong and completely in another league compared to any other elites.

kostbabis.8791:

Lol at the afraid mesmer players trying to defend this op kitten..Like having 210 sec cd is called balance..In a game that if you lose the team fight you get snowballed it doesn’t matter how much cooldowns a game changing skill has.Besides developing strategies to counter an op elite doesnt mean crap.I can develop strats that counter people trying to counter my time warp..Time wrap can be used for defence aswell like clutchy rezzes,stomps healing and also it can make other elites godly..
Its just too strong and completely in another league compared to any other elites.

Yes. We are afraid. Afraid that we’re going to get nerfed yet again becuase people would rather cry for nerfs and changes withought even bothering to counter anything. We’re afraid that like supports in League, Mesmers before a MASSIVE content addition in Guild Wars 1, and various other unusual classes in other games, we’re going to get nerfed to the ground over and over again by people who would rather see a class ruined than to go outside their confort zone.

I played a support in league. People kittened that we were picked for every single game ever. We got nerfed. And nerfed. And nerfed. And nerfed. And nerfed. People complained without thinking. We were picked because we didn’t need farm to contribute, so we could starve ourselves of gold to help the team unlike other character choices. We were nerfed into the ground for being selfless. We’re still used because we’re still the only character choices that do what we do. The nerfs didn’t fix that, they didn’t balance anything. They just pushed us further and further and further into the selfless martyr role, instead of giving us the ability to play on par with others. We still did what we always did, we just sucked more at everything but what they couldn’t flat out take. Sound familiar? (Portal)

I know people who played a mesmer in GW1. for a long while after release, people complained about the mesmer in GW1, because it played ouside of common rules, and shut people down. They didn’t take the time to find weaknesses for the mesmer, and as a result, mesmer was almost pointless in PvE, and not all that great in PvP. For a game with PvE centered around the capturing of skills for use in PvP, it was literally gamebreaking. Until ANet basically started ignoring the nerf mesmer croud, and buffed them and had to OVERHAUL PvE (hard mode), to make them viable and useful in PvP. They did something others couldn’t, and did things outside the norm, and for a good long while, the players who liked that suffered for it. Sound Familiar? (Clones/Phantasms)

Wanna know how you fix this stuff? You don’t blanket nerf until the class is crippled horribly, but still has the things that make it great (Portal). You don’t simplify the class by making many a mechanic meaningless fluff to make it easier to deal with. (Timewarp/Clones). You find real counters that work, and where they are lacking, you demand that they be added.

Mesmer solo PvE is already a pain in the neck. Mesmer PvP is already centered around a burst build that is not hard to counter if you know what it’s weaknesses are. We are quite frankly, all scared that we’re going to go down the same road as the above listed things. We are all scared of history repeating, and us suffering for it without adressing any of the problems, or making any new answers.

And you’re forcing it on us. Of course we’re going to call you out and get defensive. At least some of us have been down this road before. We know what’s waiting, and we’re not going to let you just force it on us.

Sorry for getting so confrontational, but it has to be said.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite

Time warp has a 30 second longer cooldown than…

Plague form, Lich form, Thieves guild, Tornado, Conjure fiery greatsword, Glyph of elementals (if the elemental lasts 60 seconds), Moa, Supply crate, Tome of Courage, Tome of Wrath and rampage.

It has a shorter cooldown than battle standard and spirit of nature.

As far as elites go the cooldown is very similar. I can pop two supply crates for very little effect in the same match as two time warps.

And as far as the “Counters”, there are none. Reflect walls are too situational and might end up hurting the damage output of an offensive time warp, but for a time warp laid down for stomps or rezzes it will have zero reflect at the cost of an extremely important utility slot for guardians or mesmer.

It’s too strong people…

hmm what does time warp has to do with the capability of mesmer to perform good against other classes.Right now you are a 1vs1 beast with a very repsectable burst thats strong but manageable.This wont change if they tone down timewarp or portal.
See it that way.Why does mesm get to get that utility and power in team fights when other classes end up with elites that you would gladly change for another utility slot.
You act like mesmers is a worthless class thats being taken only for portal and timewarp and thats not the case at all.Its one thing bringing variety in the game by unique mechanics and another thing droping everything in one class,making those mechanics very strong (apart from different ) and also giving them respectable performance in the actual fight as well.There is no point right now playing without a mesm and if you win thats only cause you have greater skill level.
(Powers’s vids winning against na tp without mesm proves nothing to me)
We even see comps with 2 mesm transporting the bunkers all around with portal and sealing the team fight with time warps.Quite frankly the solutions you all propose for countering it are a lot more complicated than how easy is for the time warp using team to apply it.
So my point is why should i bother making a strat to counter it when i can bring a mesm and have a usefull member in my team and the bloddy elite as well.Or maybe we should leave it untouch wait for a couple of years and see if the meta shifts away from their use :O

Genesis.5169:

If they Nerf TW.
I garentee they will come after MI and Veil next.

I’ve come to the conclusion after playing this game for 3months, the community just doesn’t like mesmers and would rather them nerfed to the point of unviability, instead of learning to cope with them.

They want this game to be called Guardian Wars.

Ostricheggs.3742:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite

Time warp has a 30 second longer cooldown than…

Plague form, Lich form, Thieves guild, Tornado, Conjure fiery greatsword, Glyph of elementals (if the elemental lasts 60 seconds), Moa, Supply crate, Tome of Courage, Tome of Wrath and rampage.

It has a shorter cooldown than battle standard and spirit of nature.

As far as elites go the cooldown is very similar. I can pop two supply crates for very little effect in the same match as two time warps.

And as far as the “Counters”, there are none. Reflect walls are too situational and might end up hurting the damage output of an offensive time warp, but for a time warp laid down for stomps or rezzes it will have zero reflect at the cost of an extremely important utility slot for guardians or mesmer.

It’s too strong people…

No elite has several hard counters, which is what you asking for here.

I somehow get the feeling all I wrote, and all the logic in it was completely overlooked, so I’m going to TL:DR it here.

I’ve been down this road before. Others have been down this road before. It doesn’t end well.

Resurrecting. Battle standard. It’s up long enough after to cart it over to the next fight, plant it down there, and keep fighting. Multiple resurrects possible in one cast. Fury, might, stability. No counter and it follows you if you try to run after it’s planted.

Supply drop is crap and needs buffs. This is an objective fact. Turrets are weak for one, it doesn’t really shift the flow of battle, as you already said, and it requires people to stand in very specific positions to pick up the items it drops, which miiight happen to be in the enemy team. Don’t use a weak class that we all know needs buffs to justify nerfing another ability. Use it to justify buffing that class.

Mesmer’s combat ability is largely based around a build that is countered by killing just one illusion out of the entire set. If you kill the Illusionary leap illusion, perhaps exploiting the fact it has no HP at all, and then dodgeroll backwards, the ENTIRE combo falls apart, as the mesmer has no way to pin you in place. This ability comes with a long tell and everything, plenty of time to set up an attack to kill the clone as it comes. Then you can simply dodge roll or kill the clones as they come for the shatter, and the mesmer is all out of burst.

Why on earth would ANYONE act like taking a single skill to counter another skill, that also has applications besides countering that skill, is a BAD thing? Counterplay is good. Counterplay is tactical. If you’re not going to bother to bring something to counter the enemy, then why do you expect to win?

“But it takes up a utility slot we could use for something else”. Timewarp takes up an elite slot that could be used for something else (Moa/Mass invis) too. One for one, and gives you the advantage.

I’d like to respectfully ask people to again read my above post. It’s kinda rude to not address any of it. I’ve been down this road before.

Needs a nerf. Do it please

I love how i mentioned several bugs that make mesmers a lot tougher to play that in some cases can be game breaking for us especially if we want to experiment and nothing was said. Consider also that if a mesmer has to use time warp for resses then the team was prolly in bad shape. If they use it for haste stomps they are just salting the wound and usually when someone downs me unless I have a team mate near by I just die anyway. Supply crate does need buffed sure but I have still been in a team that has gotten facerolled by an engineer with a well dropped supply crate. And I didn’t know that battle standard could be carted over thought it was a one time deal. THAT IS QUITE MORE POWERFUL THEN TIME WARP FOR RESSES… hmmm cuz its not haste its instant! Leveling a mesmer is a pain in the neck I did not feel my character was really viable until I was able to get traits set up. If you want balance stop calling out for nerfs. LEARN TO HAVE A COUNTER STRATEGY. And as far as someone ignoring a post that has a team with no mesmer and did quite well just by experimenting proves that you can roll with out a mesmer thats just asinine. They are NOT mandatory you just think they are… What I don’t wanna see is us to be continually nerfed so bad that we get no spots on teams ever. To the point where its oh man we can’t bring a mesmer they have no group utility. This is my first MMO I have ever played but if people are bringing you expierences from another game of how this same behavior completely ruined classes LISTEN… Maybe its time to stop being so tunnel visioned because you have a few bad matches…I used to hate when I get backstabbed by a thief but instead of qqing I took advice from thieves… I learned how to MOVE and now a thief rarely gets a drop on me… If you want to stand there and beat on each other without any strategy just stop playing all together and go find something else. (If my posts are starting to sound repetitive its because I am hoping that at some point my line of thinking will make sense and be viewed with a rational mind not an OMG nerf this into the ground so I can beat someone and not think.)

nerf MOA (this elite is actualy excelent for enemy escape from fight) , nerf TW, mass invibility is already useless so dont need nerf it.
nerf portal and nerf MW damage, so mesmer can be useless on tournaments.

sword MH is already a crap because for some reason ILeap now fail most of time, is summon and dont go quick run to te target just stop and do nothing, without immobilize blurred frenzy is useless

quickness should be remove from this game. if they nerf TW than any other quickness skill need to be nerf too. amazing how people complain about TW but haste on thief/warrior isnt a problem lol

TW is powerfull but isnt like some guy appear on your back with quickness, NO, is visible to everyone, when you see it play full defensive.

Or ranger’s quickening zephyr/engi’s elixir U/ Warriors frenzy…

I can’t believe this thread is STILL going on.

I’m not gonna argue anymore. I’m going to state some facts.

Time Warp is highly effective when used with a coordinated team
Time Warp is marginally effective when used without coordination

Time Warp is not just used for attacking/damaging. It is also used to res, stomp, and heal.
Retaliation/reflection/confusion does NOT counter those things.

Lets consider other elites with strong effects(some that have been mentioned) and compare.

Battle Standard - 2 second cast time – 192 second recharge traited(240 secs untraited)- AoE Res(arguably the only reason you would even bring this elite). Banners are clunky, and it’s other effects (fury, might and stability) while beneficial are really only a bonus to the ability to res.

Realistically, the only real opportunity for using Battle Standard is when you have downed teammates. If you use it at other times you forfeit the biggest benefit that it provides. So most of the time you do not benefit from the effects of the banner, and even with the banner you need to be holding it to get the most out of it(stability). Whereas Time Warp can be applied to nearly any situation to turn it in the caster’s(team’s) favor. While both are powerful, Battle Standard is highly situational.

Now let’s look at the only other elite haste skill in the game.

Tome of Wrath - 1 second cast(to summon the book) and 2 seconds to cast zealots fervor(haste) – 180 second recharge –
Zealots Fervor, grants 3 seconds of haste and 10 seconds of fury to nearby allies
While it has some other offensive skills, the only real reason to bring this is for the haste and maybe the knockdown(which is a 4 1/2 second cast by the way)

Even if you were to use zealot’s fervor on CD both times, it takes 2 seconds to cast both times and only nets you a maximum of 6 seconds of haste. Not only that but most guardians, even offensive spec ones will probably opt for the survivability of the other two elites. And remember that guardian who is using Tome of Wrath cannot use utilities, can’t stomp, can’t res.

Lets look at the other skills that give quickness(I do mean skills). They have drawbacks. All of them.

Frenzy – 50% increase in damage taken
Quickening Zephyr – the user and their pet cannot be healed
Haste – endurance is drained and endurance regeneration halted
Elixir U – randomly includes one of the drawbacks from other non-elite quickness skills

Compared to
Time Warp – 1/4 second cast – 210 second recharge – Ground targeted AoE – 10 seconds of quickness.
-Extremely Short cast time
-No drawbacks to the haste
-Can be casted from range

This is a fact, you cannot argue it. Every other method of acquiring haste through a skill, has some sort of drawback or risk involved in it’s execution. Tome of Wrath, you need to be casting for 3 seconds before you can grant haste(not to mention the giant book you just pulled out). All of the other haste skills have hard negative effects.

IF there’s anything that is wrong with Time Warp, it’s the fact that it is inconsistent with the other skills and seems to follow it’s own rules.

Because it is an elite skill… And one of the ONLY elites that have group utility for a mesmer… It can be reflected it can be countered. What you are arguing if for taking a class that has no other reliable elites and asking for the one they have that is reliable to be nerfed because it doesn’t follow the same lines as UTILITY skills… hence the difference between utility and elite. Tome of wrath has A BUNCH of other skills that is at the guardians disposal. (If i am correct it replaces their weapon skills). The last several threads have gone from nerf thieves to nerf mesmers… People have finally figured out how to counter thieves but now they are on to another class to nerf because they don’t have the forsight to gear for defense… They may have one on a team that is it… The rest of the team is glass cannons 9 out of 10 times… so when they get destroyed by other glass cannons or a skill that grants 10 seconds quickness they qq… Its sickening… Several people who AREN"T mesmers have given logical solutions to counter time warp and the nerf timewarp crowd refuses to listen… IF you do something that forces the people using timewarp to leave the field which is very easy to do or some form of REFLECTION/CONFUSION/RETALIATION it gets back fired… for resses and stomps the utility skills are just as effective because quickness takes those and halves them… if a mesmer is using time warp for stomps or resses then it is wasted on DPS… think about that as well… We are fighting your logic tooth and nail because we know it will not stop at time warp because it has not stopped at other skills that the PvP whiners begged to get nerfed.

jportell.2197:

We are fighting your logic tooth and nail

Angriff.1935:

jportell.2197:

We are fighting your logic tooth and nail

Just because it is someone’s logic it is their way of thinking… Does not make it correct… Mesmers logic is based off a history of this behavior and calling for it to be stopped make sense? Also think of how SMALL the PvP population is compared to the rest of the game base… That is another reason we fight it… WvW isn’t griping about mesmers nearly as much and neither do the PvE threads… SO you ARE OUTNUMBERED in this debate. And all of us presenting counter arguments have had reasonable ones that just get simply dismissed because it doesn’t satisfy your nerf TW desire. And if we KNEW 100% that the ruining of our class would stop at time warp then we may be a little more forgiving but history of threads like these have shown us different… Therefore we give no ground in the matter.

Maybe it is you who cannot see others’ point of view.

You seem to think changing the skill will affect anything other than PvP

They have split skills before. They will do it again.

yes but NONE of the mesmer changes have been split between PvP and PvE… Not a single 1 that I have found. So I still have VERY kitten good reason to stand my ground.

Angriff.1935:

Lets look at the other skills that give quickness(I do mean skills). They have drawbacks. All of them.

Frenzy – 50% increase in damage taken
Quickening Zephyr – the user and their pet cannot be healed
Haste – endurance is drained and endurance regeneration halted
Elixir U – randomly includes one of the drawbacks from other non-elite quickness skills

Compared to
Time Warp – 1/4 second cast – 210 second recharge – Ground targeted AoE – 10 seconds of quickness.
-Extremely Short cast time
-No drawbacks to the haste
-Can be casted from range

This is a fact, you cannot argue it. Every other method of acquiring haste through a skill, has some sort of drawback or risk involved in it’s execution. Tome of Wrath, you need to be casting for 3 seconds before you can grant haste(not to mention the giant book you just pulled out). All of the other haste skills have hard negative effects.

IF there’s anything that is wrong with Time Warp, it’s the fact that it is inconsistent with the other skills and seems to follow it’s own rules.

Why are you comparing utility skills with elites?

jportell.2197:

yes but NONE of the mesmer changes have been split between PvP and PvE… Not a single 1 that I have found. So I still have VERY kitten good reason to stand my ground.

Also, TW doesn’t need a change. As I’ve said, it’s “requirement” in tPvP is a symptom of the problem of bunker builds and having capture the point as the only team-based PvP format.

Angriff clearly doesn’t like mesmers. He won’t even acknowledge the obvious drawback of TW in his “facts” post.

Angriff.1935:

Battle Standard - 2 second cast time – 192 second recharge traited(240 secs untraited)- AoE Res(arguably the only reason you would even bring this elite). Banners are clunky, and it’s other effects (fury, might and stability) while beneficial are really only a bonus to the ability to res.

Realistically, the only real opportunity for using Battle Standard is when you have downed teammates. If you use it at other times you forfeit the biggest benefit that it provides. So most of the time you do not benefit from the effects of the banner, and even with the banner you need to be holding it to get the most out of it(stability). Whereas Time Warp can be applied to nearly any situation to turn it in the caster’s(team’s) favor. While both are powerful, Battle Standard is highly situational.

Now let’s look at the only other elite haste skill in the game.

Tome of Wrath - 1 second cast(to summon the book) and 2 seconds to cast zealots fervor(haste) – 180 second recharge –
Zealots Fervor, grants 3 seconds of haste and 10 seconds of fury to nearby allies
While it has some other offensive skills, the only real reason to bring this is for the haste and maybe the knockdown(which is a 4 1/2 second cast by the way)

Even if you were to use zealot’s fervor on CD both times, it takes 2 seconds to cast both times and only nets you a maximum of 6 seconds of haste. Not only that but most guardians, even offensive spec ones will probably opt for the survivability of the other two elites. And remember that guardian who is using Tome of Wrath cannot use utilities, can’t stomp, can’t res.

What are the hard counters to these elites?

Interrupts usually…. and Thts also a counter for tw

Seether.7285:

Rainu.6871:

If it’s split so that any change only affect PvE then fine. If not then I don’t see why something that only affects a very small (I’d guess max 5%) of the players should lead to more nerfs for a class that is already very weak in pve.

I’m glad we got the PvEers speaking up in every balance thread in the PvP section. Scripted NPCs are pretty tough to fight, any more nerfs to mesmers and they won’t be able to kill anything!!!!

Don’t be an idiot. Class strength figures into what people take to dungeons and fractals. We don’t need the positions of warriors, guardians, and eles even more solidified than it is by killing the only thing you bring a mesmer for in PvE (Time Warp).

Split the skills so that in sPvP TW is half the duration.

Zenith.7301:

Seether.7285:

Rainu.6871:

If it’s split so that any change only affect PvE then fine. If not then I don’t see why something that only affects a very small (I’d guess max 5%) of the players should lead to more nerfs for a class that is already very weak in pve.

I’m glad we got the PvEers speaking up in every balance thread in the PvP section. Scripted NPCs are pretty tough to fight, any more nerfs to mesmers and they won’t be able to kill anything!!!!

Don’t be an idiot. Class strength figures into what people take to dungeons and fractals. We don’t need the positions of warriors, guardians, and eles even more solidified than it is by killing the only thing you bring a mesmer for in PvE (Time Warp).

Split the skills so that in sPvP TW is half the duration.

That right there, is what jportell and others who main Mesmer are worried about. Yes, it could be split. However, given the current track record on skill splits (RE: Mesmer) it – almost guaranteed – would not be split (since – as of yet – not a single Mes skill folk in this forum have issues with has been split.). And, that is the huge dilemma here. Would I complain about a PvE/PvP split? Hell no. Do I trust (with current skill pathing) that it would be split and not nerfed 12’ under the earth? Given our current track record (in which Mesmers get no skill splits), Hell no.

Also, there’s a huge difference between sPvP and tPvP.

Portal should just become an ultimate, like Time Warp.

Then Mesmers would have to chose one over the other.

Time Warp is BS on paper, and it has the quality of being the sort of thing that when it goes right it is really dramatic and sticks in peoples craws pretty badly, but it’s really not that bad, there are bigger fish to fry. And no, I’m not a Mesmer, I think they’re overpowered, but Time Warp really is low man on the totem pole of reasons why.

And this is why mesmers are fighting the destroy time warp mantra… because once it is maybe Obsidus or others that thought it was “low man on the totem pole” as their list of perceived problems with mesmers will become more vocal… and the snow ball effect will continue until the class becomes completely useless in all aspects of the game.

Though I fon’t have a much of an opinion on whether TW is OP or not, I’d like to drop back in to mention that confusion/retaliation isn’t really a counter to quickness. It’s practically the same as using it when the enemy doesn’t have quickness, but with double duration. So while it’s a better time to use it, it’s definitely not stopping them. Plus they can still easily toss in a skill to remove it.

Those are possible counters… Reflection is much better as chances are anyone in the timewarp bubble will be using ranged attacks. Also since it is AOE and all other classes have AOE the should use their AOE on the time warp area… Unlike the solution to people trying to counter a thief stealth… You have a bright purple bubble for a target.

Except that time warp is huge. Any time I’ve entered a time warp to AoE I’m scared kittenless of getting insta-gibbed by any half-competent DPS. I have killed dudes in time warp, but it usually is pointless because they’ll just get nearly insta-rezzed.

nearly insta-rezzed thats funny… You are still maintaining it has no counters… Just because they aren’t easy to pull off or you run a full glass cannon build and have no BALANCE in your traits and equipment set up then you get mad that you can’t handle it… If you main an engi you have A TON of options available to you to counter time warp… And there are several others that have been mentioned that just get blown off… Maybe instead of asking Anet to fix what isn’t broken because timewarp is one of the skills for a mesmer that actually matches the tool tip and behaves properly you should be asking them to fix the engineer nerfs or bugs… Because guess what the mesmers are asking for their bugs to be fixed as well… IT HAS ALSO BEEN SAID SEVERAL TIMES that if an entire team is making use of time warp in one cap point then that means there are OTHER CAP POINTS that your team can go get… There are NPC bosses that you can go kill to give your team points… All suggestions that you have completely blown off because it doesn’t have us bending over backwards to completely agree and bend to your will… We have also said SEVERAL times that if we knew for a fact that the time warp change would affect PVP only then we would not be as resistant but as all previous mesmer nerfs have not been split we have no reason to believe that this would be any different… Every class has AOE; timewarp should be like a huge target for barrage/firestorm/supplydrop/the time warp your mesmer has since both the profession and skill are SOO REQUIRED to PVP. Then it can just turn into a battle of the timewarps and the highest DPS comes out on top. However! Necro’s wells and rangers barrage are just as big as the time warp if I am correct Thieves cluster bomb is also good plus they can stealth and get into the time warp bubble unnoticed and kill at least 2 people before the team notices… But you will still refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of these counters. And the last point I am going to make killing players in PvP gives less points than ANY OTHER ACTIVITY…. capping points holding points and so on… if an entire team is going all DPS on your butt inside a time warp bubble then that leaves at least one more objective that they aren’t guarding that you can get…. Pvp isn’t a DPS race its a strategizing and coordinated movement… You can have a fully coordinated team of nothing but engineers and rangers and they could still prolly hold their own against a standard team with that one MANDATORY mesmer…

Here maybe you should try the setup mentioned in this thread 16k in .1 seconds the guy claims… Well if you can do it that fast then time warp should be easy peasy.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-Engi-100-Nades-build/first#post1204009