So after watching Ready Up #15...
My thoughts about this PvP:
- Combat does not feel engaging.
- There is little to no excitement when fighting other players.
- Basically you use your skills when they are off cooldown with little to no drawback.
- Most of the time it feels more like a spam-fest than doing thoughtful processing.
- Almost everything is an AoE, there is almost no paying attention or targeting required.
- No skillful positioning, too many leaps, teleports and shadowsteps in this game.
- Combat feels like a mess, lack of overiew due to the big effects from most skills.
- While I like the dodge mechanic, it sometimes feels too spammy. Thieves in general can spam dodge and evades all day long. It turns down it’s uniqueness of the dodge mechanic.
- In general, it feels more like how much damage can you do while your opponent is defenseless.
- Game feels only like it’s about dealing damage.
im reluctant to say this to some1 who claims veteran gw pvp credentials, but you went overboard with this criticism, you are rushing judjment on gw2. play like this to any half decent enemy and you will be steamrolled with timed cd’s, positioning, and dodging your big hits.
My thoughts about this PvP:
- Combat does not feel engaging.
- There is little to no excitement when fighting other players.
- Basically you use your skills when they are off cooldown with little to no drawback.
- Most of the time it feels more like a spam-fest than doing thoughtful processing.
- Almost everything is an AoE, there is almost no paying attention or targeting required.
- No skillful positioning, too many leaps, teleports and shadowsteps in this game.
- Combat feels like a mess, lack of overiew due to the big effects from most skills.
- While I like the dodge mechanic, it sometimes feels too spammy. Thieves in general can spam dodge and evades all day long. It turns down it’s uniqueness of the dodge mechanic.
- In general, it feels more like how much damage can you do while your opponent is defenseless.
- Game feels only like it’s about dealing damage.im reluctant to say this to some1 who claims veteran gw pvp credentials, but you went overboard with this criticism, you are rushing judjment on gw2. play like this to any half decent enemy and you will be steamrolled with timed cd’s, positioning, and dodging your big hits.
Thanks for helping approve my point!
But in all seriousness, don’t take it like there is completely nothing like that to do.
There is obviously somewhat of it, but not as much to make it interesting.
(edited by DonRobeez.3560)
To me it feels like something much larger is missing from sPvP.
What do you think is missing the most?
Vote for/against <dueling>: http://strawpoll.me/1650018/
Cred to Latinkuro
Gw2 is a masterpiece at it’s foundation. Content-wise however…
Cred to Latinkuro
Gw2 is a masterpiece at it’s foundation. Content-wise however…
There were doing a 180 on PvP
“We kind of threw most of the Guild Wars 1 PVP stuff out of the window,” Johanson says. "The core PVP system in Guild Wars 1 was the guild-vs-guild battles; these don’t exist in Guild Wars 2 at all. The reason we did that is we found a small, very dedicated group of players were really into PVP and they not only dominated – no-one else played.
“It was too complicated, it was too overwhelming. It wasn’t approachable and we were very honest about looking at the mistakes that we made in the first game. We also looked at other games that are out there, seeing the stuff that they’d done and looking at what we could build in.
And we knew that for a while.
GuildWars 2
Currently playing Heart of Thorns.
Currently playing Heart of Thorns.
I feel, in general, there is a lack of depth in this game.
Literally everything feels very easy to me.
Not saying here I am that I am super pro but I have quite good knowledge of the game.
From what I know, there was a pretty large group of players in GW1 PvP.
But there were names that popped of often there.
When I was new to GW1 PvP, yes it was hard for me to get into.
But that was because there was lack of a learning curve.
Once I got into it I noticed there was a lot of depth in it and that made it very interesting.
I applaud to those who played very well because I knew what it would take to act like it.
Instead of staying true to the original.
They took a extremely easy path and went for the most simplistic decision.
I guess the group of players that were dedicated and fans of PvP have no voice in this game.
-snip-
While I agree that PvP needs some serious help, after reading your post I am left with the impression that you don’t know a whole lot about playing properly and you haven’t played against any good teams.
If you think the game is easy, try and coordinate some scrims against some top teams and win against them. Until you can beat the top players and actually rank up on the leaderboards, don’t complain about easy.
This game takes a decent amount of skill (even though people vehemently deny this fact). It’s also exceedingly obvious as you transcend specific tiers on the leaderboards.
Playing against a top 500 team feels very different from playing against a top 100 team.
In addition, playing against a top 50 team is painful for anyone who isn’t in that bracket.
I’ve playing GW1, I find the current game (GW2) a lot more fun to play that GW1. So, I’ll add to this thread by saying… yes, a lot of work needs to be done… but so far, it’s more fun than anything on the market right now.
If you enjoy GW1, go find a group of people who agree with you, and go play against each other on GW1.
Kind Regards,
Jasher
(edited by Jasher.6580)
-snip-
While I agree that PvP needs some serious help, after reading your post I am left with the impression that you don’t know a whole lot about playing properly and you haven’t played against any good teams.
If you think the game is easy, try and coordinate some scrims against some top teams and win against them. Until you can beat the top players and actually rank up on the leaderboards, don’t complain about easy.
This game takes a decent amount of skill (even though people vehemently deny this fact). It’s also exceedingly obvious as you transcend specific tiers on the leaderboards.
Playing against a top 500 team feels very different from playing against a top 100 team.
In addition, playing against a top 50 team is painful for anyone who isn’t in that bracket.
I’ve playing GW1, I find the current game (GW2) a lot more fun to play that GW1. So, I’ll add to this thread by saying… yes, a lot of work needs to be done… but so far, it’s more fun than anything on the market right now.
If you enjoy GW1, go find a group of people who agree with you, and go play against each other on GW1.
Kind Regards,
Jasher
Why does one need to earn the right to speak of their experience in this game?
Not being in the top 100 does not mean you have no idea what is going on.
The current meta builds don’t even encourage player skill, they have low risk-high reward.
That part alone is why it’s not enjoyable to play.
im reluctant to say this to some1 who claims veteran gw pvp credentials, but you went overboard with this criticism, you are rushing judjment on gw2. play like this to any half decent enemy and you will be steamrolled with timed cd’s, positioning, and dodging your big hits.
Thanks for helping approve my point!
But in all seriousness, don’t take it like there is completely nothing like that to do.
There is obviously somewhat of it, but not as much to make it interesting.
like jasher said. i don’t think you’ve seen the challenge and found it easy. more likely you are yet unaware of it. try dueling, try rotation management, and you’ll know which way it is.
im reluctant to say this to some1 who claims veteran gw pvp credentials, but you went overboard with this criticism, you are rushing judjment on gw2. play like this to any half decent enemy and you will be steamrolled with timed cd’s, positioning, and dodging your big hits.
Thanks for helping approve my point!
But in all seriousness, don’t take it like there is completely nothing like that to do.
There is obviously somewhat of it, but not as much to make it interesting.like jasher said. i don’t think you’ve seen the challenge and found it easy. more likely you are yet unaware of it. try dueling, try rotation management, and you’ll know which way it is.
Been there, done that.
Do I even need to defend myself more before you understand what I am talking about?
Been there, done that.
Do I even need to defend myself more before you understand what I am talking about?
you think im attacking you?
Been there, done that.
Do I even need to defend myself more before you understand what I am talking about?
you think im attacking you?
Oh not at all, but I am being conflicted with assumptions instead of sharing thoughts and discussions.
-snip-
You don’t need to earn the right to speak. If you interpreted my statement as saying that you shouldn’t speak at all, then I apologize.
What I’m saying is that your experience seems limited and it may skew the bigger picture.
I agree, you can have a solid idea of what’s going on without being in the top 100. Nevertheless, it doesn’t change the fact that the current state of the game isn’t the spamfest your described in the OP.
If the meta right now is “low risk, high reward”… then why can’t anyone form a team and beat the top players? There are a lot of teams out there and I have been fortunate enough to play with some of the top players.
People are calling “gg” before the game even starts when they don’t recognize the team they are playing against. The good players are known. The good teams are known.
If the game was as skill-less as you described in the original post then the same top players wouldn’t consistently dominate the way they do now, and there would be a lot more RNG when it comes to bagging a win.
Can’t help but think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjmOkfzi0xc while reading this thread lawl
Can’t help but think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjmOkfzi0xc while reading this thread lawl
I feel like killing myself after watching that.
I can feel your pain
Read It Backwards [BooN]
Can’t help but think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjmOkfzi0xc while reading this thread lawl
I feel like killing myself after watching that.
Good sign! You’re not alone! Felt like googling : “I feel attacked”. The internet is full of suprises lol
(edited by Poplolita.2638)
-snip-
You don’t need to earn the right to speak. If you interpreted my statement as saying that you shouldn’t speak at all, then I apologize.
What I’m saying is that your experience seems limited and it may skew the bigger picture.
I agree, you can have a solid idea of what’s going on without being in the top 100. Nevertheless, it doesn’t change the fact that the current state of the game isn’t the spamfest your described in the OP.
If the meta right now is “low risk, high reward”… then why can’t anyone form a team and beat the top players? There are a lot of teams out there and I have been fortunate enough to play with some of the top players.
People are calling “gg” before the game even starts when they don’t recognize the team they are playing against. The good players are known. The good teams are known.
If the game was as skill-less as you described in the original post then the same top players wouldn’t consistently dominate the way they do now, and there would be a lot more RNG when it comes to bagging a win.
Being a 5v5 format with capture points, the team that excels better at communication, composition and rotations will stand out above the rest.
What my main point is is combat.
It feels very simplistic, nearly everything hits multiple targets and there is little to no drawback on skill-usage.
There is no resource-management or anything that punishes you for using something.
- You can auto-attack and keep doing a ton of damage.
- You can spam conditions and not get punished.
- You can time a dodge/block/evade an attack that comes from stealth but it won’t reveal the attacker.
- You can become immune for a period of time with the click of a button.
These are just a few things that take away the excitement during a battle because they are so easily achieved.
But don’t get me wrong, this game has potential.
They just don’t seem to do anything with it.
It can be an amazing game but it needs some serious work.
(edited by DonRobeez.3560)
As someone who played since release, the PvP aspect of the game is actually at an all time low for me. I rarely ever play.
You can’t even get a decent hotjoin match much less a sPvP or tPvP match. Almost no hotjoin stays 5v5 throughout (at least with 8v8 there were quick replacements). Instead, one quitter just spawns a bunch of quitting on both sides.
Same for sPvP…the matchmaking is so bad and leaderboards so wonky that it’s more aggravating then fun. The rewards are so ridiculously bad that it makes things even worse.
As for balance, it’s comical how they can say things are where they want. Who could possibly play let’s say a necro and then swap to a warrior and think things are equal???
Who could say 2 shotting people with fire/ice/strength runes builds are “where they want”?
Who could possibly play the game for more than a couple hours and say any aspect of PVP is balanced and fun?
Some may disagree, but all you have to do is look at the popularity of the game, que times, and dearth of active hotjoins to see that my opinion is more the norm.
What my main point is is combat.
It feels very simplistic, nearly everything hits multiple targets and there is little to no drawback on skill-usage.
There is no resource-management or anything that punishes you for using something.- You can auto-attack and keep doing a ton of damage.
- You can spam conditions and not get punished.
- You can time a dodge/block/evade an attack that comes from stealth but it won’t reveal the attacker.
- You can become immune for a period of time with the click of a button.
auto wont win you an engagement. but it creates pressure and ticking clock. i see this as superior to other combats without auto, where you can dance around forever risking little.
about condi spam: i noticed what in power would be called “timed play” in condi is “spam”. power players (possibly from other mmo background) think of dot’s as “special”, exceptional and not regular combat. well that’s elsewhere, in gw2 condi and power are at par, build diversity is such that most profs can build on either base. and that’s good. else, what makes say pry bar less skilled than fire grab?
dodging doesnt reveal stealth? im not sure why should it, but even so, would this justify passing judgement on entire game combat?
immune for period? isnt this a matter of timing than? whats spammy about it? anything that’s scarce means decision, and decision is either skilled or not.
Don’t waste your breath they don’t want to put the work in to satisfy there players. It is as simple as that. This game lacks content there absolutely nothing to do in this game, they removed the only pvp progression there was few months ago. Not to mention they still have not dealt with the random passives in this game (aka spinal shivers, air/fire sigls, air runes, etc). This game is dying at faster and faster rate with the release of other games.
Lil Apt
L2P deeez nutz
L2P deeez nutz
There might be skill at the top but how many people will ever see it? I would consider maybe 50 players to be top tier. But as far as the rest of pvp is concerned the game simple rewards exploiting the most faceroll fotm build. Everyone gets on here and justifies how their cheese build for there class is “fair” because you can do “x” build or technique to counter it. But the truth is usually “x” is either a build meant to hard counter them and completely useless otherwise or involves pinpoint recognition and timing to counter them mindlessly spamming a op attack. So while you get to fight the crap UI and try to telepathically read there next attack they get to mash there head on the keyboard for an easy win. When it comes right down to it for the majority of players the game modes we get to participate in reward bad play, exploiting builds, runes/signets, and passive play such as minions/ai. Sadly now it will never be fixed since the game has released in china. Anet is more than content to rake in that money for a farming simulator skinned over a game of dress up while trying to convince us they are the anet of the gw1 era before they completely sold out.
(edited by kailin.4905)
OK, I’ve been on these forums for 2 years constantly bringing up ways in which GW1 was a superior game, and even I think the OP is mostly being unfair. I’m not gonna address his points one by one, but there’s a couple I want to bring up:
1. yeah I also miss energy management, but I do think that with the faster pace of combat it would be one thing too many to keep track of.
2. No, I don’t agree that combat is spammy. In general, if you’re spamming your skills on cooldown you’re gonna lose. Most skills have a meaningful effect which you have to use at the right time to turn a fight around. There are some notable exceptions: for instance, if you’re a ranged caster fighting against a melee class on a side point, the requirement to sit on the point, meaning you can’t kite very far, combined with the number of gap closers available to some classes, make most snares except full Immobilise pretty useless, so you can use them on cooldown for the tiny extra damage with impunity. And skills like Pistol Whip, with its built-in evade, genuinely do have no down side to using them (unless the opponent has stability). In general though, the OP is wrong, you have to choose when to use your skills carefully.
3. I will admit that, although it isn’t spammy, combat can FEEL spammy for the beginning pvper. Why is that? Well, for one thing, most skills don’t have a distinctive casting animation, and there’s no casting bar. Sure they have very colourful and distinctive visual effects post-cast, yes (group fights look like all of JJ Abrams’s VFX artists did something unspeakable all over the map), but nothing visually distinctive is happening DURING the cast. It’s very hard to see if the enemy is doing anything different than their autoattack. Even the ones that do normally have a very short casting time (1" or less), making them difficult to dodge or interrupt. Sure it’s doable, I’ve feared or dazed people while they were trying to heal too, but nobody can do it reliably and consistently, especially in group fights. (And before everyone jumps in to dispute this, I might not have the best reflexes anymore but I’m speaking as someone who played a bunch of interrupt ranger and mesmer builds in GW1 and could pretty much keep an enemy monk locked down.) So I can see why the OP feels the combat doesn’t allow for clutch plays like GW1 did, why he feels people are just spamming their skills and dodging as often as possible with seemingly no reference to what the opponent is doing: cause at lower levels they probably are, because the game’s visual design and casting times aren’t enabling them to react meaningfully.
4. One area where I do agree with him is the extreme difference in stats between the tankiest and burstiest builds. I feel it’s a problem that a zerker ele will have literally half the health and nearly half the armour of a soldier warrior. It creates a problem with balancing the professions, it means that someone like a thief will NEVER be bunkery even if they go for the gear with the most vitality and toughness because the base HP and armour difference is too huge, and it means that EVERYONE has to build for one of those extremes. If you go for a middle ground you won’t be tough enough to survive a burst from the zerker thieves, and you won’t have the DPS to take down the clerics and soldiers heavy armoured professions. I really feel that base HP stats should be brought closer together: thief, guardian and ele raised by 2k or so, warrior and necro lowered by 2k or so – and obviously all survivability skills and traits balanced accordingly.
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.
Hearing the words ‘’PvP is close to what we want it to be’’ feels extremely dissatisfying to me..
So, they wanted it to be an unbalanced, failed esport?
Seriously though, I don’t see how anyone can have confidence in the future of this game. The balance team doesn’t seem to know what to do (and it takes them 6 months to implement the wrong changes). The map designers are getting worse (Let’s be honest, the last two maps, Spirit Watch and Skyhammer are the two most unbalanced maps out there). The matchmaking is horrible.
ANET still has time to fix things, but they need to show some sense of urgency. Right now, that doesn’t exist. They are losing people to other NCsoft games.
@style.6173 just get over this esports man. it’s been 2 years since :noEsports: by now, one would think that’s enough to make up your mind and move on, if that’s what you are looking for.
as for “future of this game”, i’ve been hearing that for 2 years too. and honestly, those who like the game – play it, those who leave – good luck and thanks for all the fish.