Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of threads that go as follows:

1st post: Guardians are OP; gadzooks Batman I can’t just dps them to death fast at all, needs major nerf.

2nd post: More like Guardians, Mesmers, and Thiefs; need a specific build or strat to kill them, no thanks nerf plox!

3rd post: More like Guardians , Mesmers, and Engineers; for kitten’s sake nerf them. Sincerly yours, a Thief

4th post: Guardians are definitely god tier like Engineers, Elementalist, ( dang aoe kills my clones, no thanks nerf plox), Warriors, and Thiefs. I am totally not a Mesmer, promise.

5th post: Are you kitten me? Warriors are way more OP than Guardians.

6th post: Nah Guards are fine, but Necros have way too much tankiness and the conditions melt away all my health. Love, a Guardian.

7th: I think you guys are forgeting the cheapness of Ranger pets and how they destroy me in secounds, but nerf Necros, Guardians, Thiefs, Engineers, Elementalist, and Warriors too. Mesmers for life!

Sometimes I hope the devs just go with their gut and dont listen to the community. If they did everone would do 1 damage, all have the same health, same abilities, and be on the forums raging that nerfs are still need to majorly OP classes.

you had me till you threw in Elementalist. no one cries about them needing a nerf

edit and try again please

I have seen several mesmers QQ about how aoe kills their clones too fast, other than that you are correct. I hardly see people complain about Necros either (we have over a 100 bugs atm), the point is that there is alway someone who thinks someone else needs to be nerfed

Can’t we all kill each other in peace!

Someone else killed me? I better go whine about how their class is OP!

No but seriously, there are OP skills in this game, just not as many as you’d think by just reading the forums.

List of things that are not OP:

Conjure Fiery Greatsword.

Nooo way !!!! fiery sword is so awesome .. I always pick them on the ground, looks way better than my mesmer GS animations (lasers)

It’s funny how ironic it is to QQ about people QQing, people are kittening because it’s painfully obvious that the classes need tweaking.

This game has no OP class’s , sure it has some with a few bugs right now because those need to get fixed but the reason this game rocks is cause no one is op… sure there will be your rock paper scissors class’s where one beats one, but loses to the other. But in general its based solely on skill. If your bad you will cry in the forums, if your real good you will insult the bad who cry on the forums and if your just decent, you sit and laugh at them both.

There is no OP class at all, but there is an UP class: necromancer.
It will only take several minutes for everyone to check out and compare necro’ skills and traits and guardian’s ones… it’s just a shame.

PS.: Even counting necro traits as working as intented (with 0 bugs), guardian or warrior for example beat them in every aspect like versatility, synergy, usefulness…

I think the problem is a B2P game is going to attract a much greater amount of children to it. The everything is OP thing is definitely a trend on the board. I think it’s just cuz of the amount of kids that play it, where there are children, there is immaturity.

People keep coming to the forums to whine about classes as they keep comparing them to other classes. If you approach something 1v1 against classes that excel at dueling, then you sir need to rethink playing this game. They will own you most of the time. You show up with a buddy and that duelest will high tail it away at the soonest opportunity. Learn to play to your classes strengths and learn to counter your classes weaknesses. Counter your opponents strengths and play to their weaknesses. If you can’t seem to do this simple thing, then either do some more research, or find another game as this one is most likely not for you. If you are unable or unwilling to adapt on the fly then this game is def not for you.

Qoute system wont work( frequent bug recently) but

@ Ithir- Necro is my baby; and it is true we need work but I think that once the bug fixes are taken care of we should be fine. To my knowledge we have the most bugs by far, and it is hard to really know how the class will handle when most of our abilities work.

Comparing classes is risky business ( Tom Cruise lol). Versatility, utility, synergy (interclass or personal?), (omiting usefulness since it is so vague), durability, burst, ect are most of the time class specific. Not every class needs to excell at every role, the devs have decided to let each class have its own set of roles; providing a interesting and unique type of gameplay for each proffession.

This type of balance is refreshing, and one of the reason I love GW2. When players really master using DS our tankiness will be very nice, on par if not better than heavily armored proffs. Warriors/Guardians excell at what they should, us necros are condition slinging, tough as nails minion masters; although I will admit guardins get minions, our conditions at least set us apart.

Don’t mistake me for a fanboi, I really want Anet to fix the bugs and really want to see more vairiety from the pvp maps; but as fair as class balance I think they are doing well .

@Colton -> Well, I hope we will be better when they fix all the bugs too crossing fingers

But I can’t understand decisions like having toughness and critical damage in the same trait line (Valor trait line of Guardians) or precision and critical damage (which makes a lot of sense) in Dueling trait line of Mesmers when we have precision and condition damage or power and condition duration (wth!).

I’ve been playing necromancer from BWE1 to the last Stress Test and 250~ hours since release of PvP, PvE and WvW but sometimes I take my guardian and just faceroll people having incredible survivability and damage (melee or ranged, both works fine) or going full tank build holding a point almost forever, or going support for my mates…. The thing is classes like this can do everything and they do it very well when my necro only excels at condition-boon manipulation and that makes me wonder why we even have a power trait line.

By the way, I usually play tournaments with my RL friends or I queue alone, not zerg-join

I have yet to really be frightened of a Necro unless I’m playing my bunker guardian. And Necros essentially counter each other, which is kittening hilarious. (First person to use Plague Signet loses :U)

Thieves have so much going for them it’s friggin amazing. Even the most selfish builds can be credit to team as long as their alt weapon is a shortbow.

@Zachariel: Like it or not low man battles (1v1, 2v1, 2v2, 3v’s, etc) make up the majority of tournament gameplay. You can’t hide in the faceless masses to make up for any shortcomings your build might have. You can barely do that in 8v8s, you sure as hell can’t do it in 3 point capture point maps when playing 5vs5. At a bare minimum you need 2 dedicated point holders. That leaves you 3 guys that can run around, and only 2 guys on Khylo. (Often you’ll have 3 dedicated holders, 1 for a small point and 2 for the big center one, which leaves you even less room for roamers) As a result, low man skirmishes are a constant.

ANet will have to balance around that reality. This isn’t the age of GW1 5v5 deathmatches. You can’t balance around 5v5 teamfights because the maps themselves forbid those from happening unless the teams really don’t care about playing optimally.

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

Colton.9460:

I see a lot of threads that go as follows:

1st post: Guardians are OP; gadzooks Batman I can’t just dps them to death fast at all, needs major nerf.

2nd post: More like Guardians, Mesmers, and Thiefs; need a specific build or strat to kill them, no thanks nerf plox!

3rd post: More like Guardians , Mesmers, and Engineers; for kitten’s sake nerf them. Sincerly yours, a Thief

4th post: Guardians are definitely god tier like Engineers, Elementalist, ( dang aoe kills my clones, no thanks nerf plox), Warriors, and Thiefs. I am totally not a Mesmer, promise.

5th post: Are you kitten me? Warriors are way more OP than Gaurdians.

6th post: Nah Gaurds are fine, but Necros have way too much tankiness and the conditions melt away all my health. Love, a Guardian.

7th: I think you guys are forgeting the cheapness of Ranger pets and how they destroy me in secounds, but nerf Necros, Guardians, Thiefs, Engineers, Elementalist, and Warriors too. Mesmers for life!

Sometimes I hope the devs just go with their gut and dont listen to the community. If they did everone would do 1 damage, all have the same health, same abilities, and be on the forums raging that nerfs are still need to majorly OP classes.

LOL no one is saying Necro’s are OP. Link a single thread that says Necro’s are op.

shrewd.5319:

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

That is your opinion, other ppl have similar opinions about other classes. Your post is the kind this thread is about. If your post is a joke, then I must say well played good sir; if not then /facepalm.

shrewd.5319:

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

Guardians are fun to kill with my mesmer, Mesmers are fun to kill with my ranger (and I main mesmer) so no sure why you think those two need nerfs. I know how to counter mesmers as I play one so I have no problem. No clue why so many people come to complain about not doing any research on how to counter a class. There is a reason you can switch your utility skills out of combat. If you see a group or a lone opponent switch your skills fast to counter them. If you don’t have time just do your best.

Colton.9460:

I see a lot of threads that go as follows…

You must be reading a differnet forum, because on the one I’m reading I see the vast majority of complaints of OPness are directed at classes like thief, mesmer, guardian, whilst other classes such as necro are generally regarded as weak.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Colton.9460:

I see a lot of threads that go as follows:

1st post: Guardians are OP; gadzooks Batman I can’t just dps them to death fast at all, needs major nerf.

2nd post: More like Guardians, Mesmers, and Thiefs; need a specific build or strat to kill them, no thanks nerf plox!

3rd post: More like Guardians , Mesmers, and Engineers; for kitten’s sake nerf them. Sincerly yours, a Thief

4th post: Guardians are definitely god tier like Engineers, Elementalist, ( dang aoe kills my clones, no thanks nerf plox), Warriors, and Thiefs. I am totally not a Mesmer, promise.

5th post: Are you kitten me? Warriors are way more OP than Gaurdians.

6th post: Nah Gaurds are fine, but Necros have way too much tankiness and the conditions melt away all my health. Love, a Guardian.

7th: I think you guys are forgeting the cheapness of Ranger pets and how they destroy me in secounds, but nerf Necros, Guardians, Thiefs, Engineers, Elementalist, and Warriors too. Mesmers for life!

Sometimes I hope the devs just go with their gut and dont listen to the community. If they did everone would do 1 damage, all have the same health, same abilities, and be on the forums raging that nerfs are still need to majorly OP classes.

LOL no one is saying Necro’s are OP. Link a single thread that says Necro’s are op.

Use the search function, you will find people saying we have too much survivalbility and Guardians defending themselves by saying the Necro class makes every Guardian weep. The point is not that everyone is complaining equally about each class, and I have already said that elementalist and necros do not have more than 1 or 2 ppl complaining about them for nerf reasons.

The point is that threads tend to devolve into people taking sides agianst classes other than their own if they have any difficulty with it. They will bandwaggon with everyother class being OP but when their name is mentioned they will say no no X totally destroys my Y, then they list who is really OP. Most people dont play necros or elementalist, but trust me one day our QQ fotm will be up and it will be QQageddon.

Zachariel.5463:

shrewd.5319:

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

Guardians are fun to kill with my mesmer, Mesmers are fun to kill with my ranger (and I main mesmer) so no sure why you think those two need nerfs. I know how to counter mesmers as I play one so I have no problem. No clue why so many people come to complain about not doing any research on how to counter a class. There is a reason you can switch your utility skills out of combat. If you see a group or a lone opponent switch your skills fast to counter them. If you don’t have time just do your best.

Hurr durr, have you even tried to take out a Guardian with anything besides a mesmer? It’s not about knowing how to counter a class, some(most) classes aren’t capable of that in the first place.

Sylosi.6503:

Colton.9460:

I see a lot of threads that go as follows…

You must be reading a differnet forum, because on the one I’m reading I see the vast majority of complaints of OPness are directed at classes like thief, mesmer, guardian, whilst other classes such as necro are generally regarded as weak.

I have explained a couple of times that ele and necros dont get a lot of ppl complaining about them for nerf reasons, it is an exageration to prove a point. The point being is that when I see a Holy trinity thread, I constantly see one of the trinity taken out (most likely by the person who plays that class) and shifted to another proffesion they have a hard time handling.

Sezu.8564:

Zachariel.5463:

shrewd.5319:

I don’t understand all this crying about most professions. The only 2 professions that need nerfs in all aspects are guardians and mesmers. All others are just fine.

Guardians are fun to kill with my mesmer, Mesmers are fun to kill with my ranger (and I main mesmer) so no sure why you think those two need nerfs. I know how to counter mesmers as I play one so I have no problem. No clue why so many people come to complain about not doing any research on how to counter a class. There is a reason you can switch your utility skills out of combat. If you see a group or a lone opponent switch your skills fast to counter them. If you don’t have time just do your best.

Hurr durr, have you even tried to take out a Guardian with anything besides a mesmer? It’s not about knowing how to counter a class, some(most) classes aren’t capable of that in the first place.

As any self respecting Guardian will tell you conditions destroy them, so besides mesmer you got necro. conditon ranger and engineer. Not my opinion, just hop over to the “Guardians are Breaking Tournaments” thread on the subforum page and see what they say themselves.

Colton.9460:

Sylosi.6503:

Colton.9460:

I see a lot of threads that go as follows…

You must be reading a differnet forum, because on the one I’m reading I see the vast majority of complaints of OPness are directed at classes like thief, mesmer, guardian, whilst other classes such as necro are generally regarded as weak.

I have explained a couple of times that ele and necros dont get a lot of ppl complaining about them for nerf reasons, it is an exageration to prove a point. The point being is that when I see a Holy trinity thread, I constantly see one of the trinity taken out (most likely by the person who plays that class) and shifted to another proffesion they have a hard time handling.

The fact that you had to exaggerate, and basically make this whole thread up proves you wrong.

The only way you would be correct is if the complaints were in fact even. The fact that they are not even in any way shape or form, proves your wrong.

Exactly.

There will always the whining about professions being OP since there will always be players that blame the game instead of being objective and admitting that they lost because the other player was simply better in this game.

So in a perfectly balanced state there still will be these complaints however statistically the number of complaints should be roughly proportional to the number of people playing the corresponding profession.

This is not the case for GW2 PvP as one look into the forums prove. Instead everybody and their grandma seem to have a gripe with Thiefs/Mesmers/Guardians and to some extend Warriors with 100b; on the other hand players complaining about Necros and Eles does almost never happen.

hackks.3687:

you had me till you threw in Elementalist. no one cries about them needing a nerf

edit and try again please

i agree, topic creator messed up by saying elementalists are overpowered

Zachariel.5463:

People keep coming to the forums to whine about classes as they keep comparing them to other classes. If you approach something 1v1 against classes that excel at dueling, then you sir need to rethink playing this game. They will own you most of the time. You show up with a buddy and that duelest will high tail it away at the soonest opportunity. Learn to play to your classes strengths and learn to counter your classes weaknesses. Counter your opponents strengths and play to their weaknesses. If you can’t seem to do this simple thing, then either do some more research, or find another game as this one is most likely not for you. If you are unable or unwilling to adapt on the fly then this game is def not for you.

Spoken like a true WoW RPG neophyte…

1v1 isn’t a big deal in this game, but classes are still meant to be balanced in power (roughly). That means dueling any other class as any class should be won or lost based on your makeup, not the class itself.

How much more noob can you get than defending an OP class by saying “they’re meant to be OP” ?

In the thread where someone said elementalists are OP. Now I have seen it all.

Ardelin.9543:

It’s funny how ironic it is to QQ about people QQing, people are kittening because it’s painfully obvious that the classes need tweaking.

Or what is it that you are doing exactly ? The same thing and i am now whining about you whining about someone else that according to you was whining about the whining (yes this adds up correctly : )

OMG a smart person created a topic, what kind of sorcery is this!?

But seriously, you’re absolutely right, people need to learn that different builds and classes have different advantages and disadvantages, just because their class-build combo doesn’t work against a certain class-build combo, doesn’t make it OP.

Learn the meta game, learn ur class, learn all other classes, learn all the mechanics etc etc and then come back and whine about a class being op.

@Redscope and @Arheundel

Next time type your post to be a little less condescending.

From what you both typed you both feel that you should be able to kill any class 1v1 at any time because you feel entitled to that feat. That is how you come across. Sorry but you need to work for those kills. From your whining about classes, maybe you should not play this game as the skill required to play your classes seems to be above your current level of play and understanding. Yes mesmers (as stated by devs) are master duelists. Your understanding of other classes is severely lacking if you are not able to counter their streangths and play to their weaknesses. Like I said, maybe its best that you find another game or avoid PVP as if you are getting upset because you can’t “find the real one” or feel like you should be able to pubstomp every class 1v1 then you won’t be having fun.

Oh and I miss monk and sin. Those were the good ol days.

Also red, I never once said the class was OP actually compared to most, they are balanced as you are the one controlling your character, if you are unwilling to adapt to a player you are facing and use the same old tactics to face every situation, then you will lose almost every time against someone that knows their class and knows how to counter yours. Its called skill.

Things that are perceived as overpowered might actually be overpowered in their current context.
A fresh player that descides to play sPvP for the first time, gets Bull Charged and 100bladed to death in litterally 2.1seconds flat by a Warrior will perceive this as very overpowered.

I think most stuff has an adequate counter. The balance issues as far as i can tell lie more in how much easier some profession can accomplish certain things.
Again the Warrior example, unlikely its viable on a high skill level. But in entry level PvP you can destroy people with just 2 buttons. Same goes for Thieves.
Certain professions have an higher potential in the hands of lesser skilled players, allowing less skill to gain the same or more reward untill a certain ceiling is reached.

And Mesmers are incredibly illusive and hard to fight untill you get the experience needed to tell the real one from the clones. It might be fine at the 1% that plays at top level, but at lower skill brackets it can make or break the gameplay experience.

Just start with thief and mesmer and life will be much better for all immediately.

You do realize that short of deleteing Thief and Mesmer you will never NOT be frustrated with them, right?

Kalar Meadia.8439:

You do realize that short of deleteing Thief and Mesmer you will never NOT be frustrated with them, right?

I am sure even if Anet removed the two classes people would still feel the need to log into the forums and complain how OP they were, how x skill was OP, and that balance is ruined forever since they didn’t scrap the OP classes sooner.

every class is OP. they all need nerfs.

I play Engi, Guard, Mes, Necro and Thief (Shortbow 4 lyfe.) in sPvP/tPvP – I have played every class in sPvP/tPvP but I can only have 5 characters.
The only classes I can say that are OP are thief and warrior, mainly because of quickness and such. I can see why people say Mes is OP but if you call target on them then they aren’t as annoying, just the teleport/invisibly mechanics are a tad broken.

Mes and guard are strong, necro is weak, everything else is fine. Not that there’s any reason to whine because it takes 5 minutes to make a mes or guard and take it through the tutorial. I’m hoping they get toned down within a reasonable timeframe to open up more viable team comps, but I’d rather see a few bugfixes first. In the meantime, play what is strong. If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.

Any kittening mongol can see the trend of guardian mesmer and thief being mentioned quite a bit more in QQ threads than the rest of the classes.

contrary to popular belief a widespread field of “nerf” cries does not signal great balance but horribly messed up balance way beyond just one class falling out of line.

thief and guardian need to be balanced asap. They require significant adjustments. Mesmers need to be balanced as well but this is one class where they have to be careful with since a lot of adversity players face is because of how much mesmers profit from clueless enemies and the general annoyance of fighting a mesmer.

Mr Magoo.9065:

contrary to popular belief a widespread field of “nerf” cries does not signal great balance but horribly messed up balance way beyond just one class falling out of line.

thief and guardian need to be balanced asap. They require significant adjustments. Mesmers need to be balanced as well but this is one class where they have to be careful with since a lot of adversity players face is because of how much mesmers profit from clueless enemies and the general annoyance of fighting a mesmer.

your comment about mesmers can equally be applied to thieves and there stealth mechanics /shrug

but yes to the OP, every single kitten thing is OP

Vaerah.4907:

In the thread where someone said elementalists are OP. Now I have seen it all.

He is a madman they said, surely he is intoxicated they said, now I have seen it all they said. Well, Called it, Elementalist found 1 measly build that makes them competitive in tpvp, now the crys for nerf plox ring louder the the celestial trumpets. Notice how it was only after bunker ele’s came in that ppl really started to hate on the bunkers, ppl want an instant gib fest, and they want it now. Who cares if they cant focus fire, who cares if they arent using any sort of tactics, the game should just be a burst cannon free for all.

Now I am going back to engineer and waiting for the nerf crys to migrate over there

Kinda makes u wonder how u don’t see the top players complain about balance and how they face roll people with their builds…Makes you wonder doesn’t it? Everything might not be perfectly balanced, some things need a tweak, but it’s nothing to lose sleep over once you learn how the classes work and which are their counters and once….people start making their own builds that work instead of using the first major traits they see fit, grabing a random weapon and so on…

hackks.3687:

you had me till you threw in Elementalist. no one cries about them needing a nerf

edit and try again please

That’s because people are too busy crying about thieves. When thieves get nerfed and people start to see what double dagger eles are capable of… oh boy.

Get chain CCd for 17 seconds by ONE DUDE and see how fast they whine.

NERF Backstab & Steal
NERF Heartseeker
NERF Death Blossom
NERF Endurance Return
NERF Swiftness
NERF Thief Signets across the board
NERF Basilisk… again
NERF Shortbow
NERF Thieves Guild
NERF Pistol Whip… more
NERF Thief downed state

In fact the only thing I haven’t seen people cry about is S/D #3.

Forums are just as hilarious as they are tragic.

Community complaints are actually pretty representative when you have stats to compare with. Frizz.6704 did some very nice statistical sampling:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Distribution-Stats/

From this, it’s quite clear that there is a big problem going on with thieves. I suspect players who can’t manage to kill others with their selected profession just end up migrating to thief to satisfy their ego by 2 shotting people.

I can make up numbers too.

Unless it comes from an official source, population is pure supposition. Citing a posters private census is a demonstration of gullibility.

Under specific circumstances, sure, everything can be looked at as OP. And that’s frankly one of the big issues with PvP in class based games. When you introduce situations where classes have different abilities, you will always always have imbalance, and this will continue as tweaks are made. The fact that two teams can have different numbers of class types simply magnifies the problem. It’s the nature of the beast, and anyone looking for truly balanced PvP is going to stay far away from MMO’s altogether. You’re never going to see balance.

To put it another way, there isn’t a game, team sport, or anything out there where opposing sides aren’t given the exact same capabilities and rulesets. Even in chess, different pieces can do different things, but both players start with the exact same numbers. Card games I’ll exclude because there’s so much RNG involved.

ANet has done a very smart thing by making level and gear a non issue. Beyond that, the game is subject to all the same old flaws.

@rickshaw.5279
Not when the numbers feel right to many people, and are actually pretty representative of the kind of complaints that keep showing up.