Guild Wars 2

I have not played a lot of sPvP. I’m prefacing my entire post with that, as to try to mute everyone that would grief me on those grounds. I am aware that on different servers, or with different teammates, or different ranks, it could be different. This is sort of a long rant/explanation, and I sincerely want some advice.

I play a Ranger on Ehmry Bay. I play the standard (and apparently very effective) bleed short bow build. Every time I get into sPvP, it seems who wins boils down to the team with the most of the four classes in the title. Every Warrior, Engineer, and Guardian, I can shut down without any difficulty. It might take over a minute of 1v1 depending on how well they heal, but they can’t ever come close to beating me. I’ve also noticed, since I’m often on a high vantage point and able to watch as I’m holding a point, that pretty much every 1v1 where one player is a Necro/Mesmer/Thief/Elementalist, and the other isn’t, the other loses every single time. When I’m against one of those four, I lose most of the time. The only exceptions are certain Elementalists and Mesmers, who for some reason or another, seem like they can’t do any damage to me at all, and I have no idea why. Otherwise, they just seem incredibly powerful compared to the other classes— and don’t get me wrong, I certainly think Ranger is more powerful than Guardian, Warrior, or Engineer.

Thieves seem to be able to always get close, and then put me in almost permanent stunlock so that I can neither attack nor move. It’s GG at that point, if it’s 1v1. Certain elementalists can do about 70% of my health in less than five seconds, and I basically get the rest burnt off in the few seconds after. Necros do something similar, but I haven’t lived long enough to figure out what happens, I just know it involves poison. Mesmers, I have no idea how they kill me. Or specifically, how sometimes they do, and sometimes they seem so ineffective as to be just fodder. Either way, it seems the team fights are over before they begin, if the teams aren’t profession-balanced. All four of these classes can do massive amounts very quickly, or even more massive amounts of damage over a few seconds, making quick work of just about everyone.

Why is this? Why are they so, so incredibly powerful? I don’t care about how mesmer+trebs is unfair, or how 90% of the time I can’t damage the entangling roots I’m trapped in because my character animation overshoots it. I just want to know why these particular classes are so powerful most of the time. If they’re glass cannon, how can it be they’re glass cannon and yet resilient enough to take a beating? Is there really any way to actually counteract this? I have condition and snare removal, but when it comes to thieves, that does almost no good—they just chase me and hit me with it again a few seconds later I’ve tried building condition damage/vitality, and while it made me survive longer, it made them survive with even more health 1v1, and made no difference in team fights. What is the solution?

And please, no “learn to play” comments. That’s what I’m asking. With some games, it really is just a solution of “don’t play certain classes”. I’m not assuming that’s the case in GW2, thus why I’m here.

It seems to me that you think these classes are overpowered because you don’t know what they are doing. In fact, your whole third paragraph is about how you tape your eyes shut while PvPing.

Try rolling other classes for a day or so in sPvP to learn how they work. For example, a thief can stealth a good 5 times in the middle of a fight, and have a small period of time where they remain stealthed but still attack.

Boy is it rare to see a thread that says that necros are very very powerful.

So you’re primarily crossfire/bleed damage? Necro have large health pools and eat bleeds. It’s not that they are really really strong, it’s just that their toolset is good for going against your weapon choice.

Elementalists and thieves have a lot of gap closing abilities, as a ranger you need to keep your distance to be at maximum effectiveness. Again, seems it’s a toolset clash here. Although many will say thief is op because it’s a thief.

This gap closing thing is also why you find engi/warrior/guardian easier. Because they are a lot more stationary type fighters, also sustain damage (i.e. you) are good against these particular classes. So these classes aren’t weak, it’s that your weapon choice does well against them.

TLDR; Rock is OP, Paper is balanced – Scissors

I will try to help the best I can. At the moment classes are using a lot of condition removers(the Meta atm) so even though condition such as bleed are great in a long drawn out battles once removed its like hitting a restart button on your damage. In this scenario survivability is key. You will need lots of CC to keep yourself alive. I suggest freeze on swap weapons for those Close Quarters Combat classes instead of the +X% bleed.

Suggested traits for survivability: Hide in Plain Sight, Empathic Bond, Shared Anquish
Keep 1 stun break and 1 condition remover for utility.

What to do list in X engagement:

Thief
Suggested traits and condition remover help you from getting stun locked. Switch weapons stack bleeds and run(A pet that knockdowns opponent is great). CC thief and repeat(use knockback the second time he uses his gap closer and continue kiting).

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

Necromancers
You can’t kill any decent Necromancer with conditions. They counter you directly. They will send all your damage right back at you(they transfer condition from themselves to you). Be careful of their Marks if you step on them prepare for a lot of hurting. Avoid if possible unless you are raw damage.

Elementalist
In this fight you just have to keep your distance. CC weapon swap what ever it takes keep him away from you. If he is going bunker prepare for a very long long battle. If is burst you should win by condition removal and suggested traits after surviving the initial attack.

I can slightly understand the Thief and Mesmer being an pain in the kitten for Ranger… But necro and elementalist? If there are 2 classses which are considered hard to master and play well compared to others, its kinda those 2. (yes i know i play ele, no this comment is not based on me playing ele, yes i am proud to play ele and will be no matter what arenanet does to it)

@Paranoid: Thank you very much for putting it into terms I can easily understand. Things make more sense. I appreciate your help.

@IDICERI: So from what it seems like, you’re suggesting Short Bow/Longbow, and 30 in Wilderness Survival, but where do the other points go? And from what I’m seeing, especially the part where the current meta cleanses a lot, would it be a decent idea to go precision/crit damage? I’m curious if that’d debilitate my ability to beat the professions I already can, and if it’d help counter the ones I have an issue with. Regardless, thank you very much. I really appreciate your help, too.

Can’t speak much for the other classes you’ve come across, but a big reason you are finding guardians easy to beat is a lot of guardians forego condition removal in favour of more toughness/damage builds. This is probably primarily because of how heavily burst damage is favoured in tpvp, however, a bunker guardian properly specced into condition removal should be able to survive your pewpew till the kittens come home.

If you were to spec out of conditions and more into crits/dd, I wouldn’t be surprised if you found guardians/warriors a little tougher to handle.

Using conditions versus necros…oh dear.
1. First of all necros have a very good condition remover which even boosts their healing
2. Their only -really- viable spec is a condition build…which features plague signet which let’s you transfer conditions.

To sum it up: You helped the necro by boosting his heal and also his damage by transfering conditons you placed on him to you.

I am not sure what good speccing condition removal is when some classes just spam it with their 1 skill. I waste an ability slot to remove a series of conditions and they are immediately put back on. Its a strange game meta.

If you waste your condition removal by using it the moment anything sticks to you, of course it will be of no use. Condition removals are a good way to break their momentum, if you remove them in the sweet spot of 7-9 stacks before it does any lasting damage, they have to ramp everything back from 0 again. Anything less, you’re giving them the green light to DoT you up. Wait too long, well then it might be too late.

Thieves are easily overwhelmed by conditions, compared to most other classes, they are lacking much more in removals. Bring a stun break and don’t just stand still when they stealth, you can still damage them. If you can survive their initial heavy CD loaded burst, then they’re either going to have to run or die to your bleeds.

A point where an above poster did not mention about Mesmers is that condition damage against them is also an uphill battle. Like Necromancers, if they bring Arcane Thievery, they can stick the conditions you applied on them back onto you while ripping off your boons. Null Field also gives them a reset. This obviously depends on how they’re built. Also, if they have chaos armor up, don’t hit them. You’re giving them boons while giving yourself conditions. When you finally get them down, if they port, don’t stomp the clone. It’s always the second one with an arrow above their heads, don’t waste time with the illusion.

For elementalists, there’s not much to say, if anything they’re the least threatening class that easily succumbs to pressure. Don’t get hit and move out of their telegraphed moves. They will go down faster than you.

IDICERI.4268:

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

You are also forgetting Feedback, it can EASILY kill someone that goes for the burst when its up – If you see it move OUT before you ANY attacks. I play Mesmer and rarely use Confuse but thats because of the build i play – keeping Illusions up rather then destroying them

I can’t say I share all of the OP’s concerns. And no, this is not a hidden way to say the OP should L2P.
But I do feel helpless in a lot of fights. Yes I am saying I should L2P…

So thanks for the tips given by several posters, really helpfull.

Asmodean.5820:

Using conditions versus necros…oh dear.
1. First of all necros have a very good condition remover which even boosts their healing
2. Their only -really- viable spec is a condition build…which features plague signet which let’s you transfer conditions.

To sum it up: You helped the necro by boosting his heal and also his damage by transfering conditons you placed on him to you.

it’s true we necros are masochists heh. We take the conditions of our allies and our own and spread them around or eat them for health lol. Hitting us with conditions is only helping us in the end.. well most of the time anyway.
Direct burst dmg is the way to go if you want to bring a necro down.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

IDICERI.4268:

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

You are also forgetting Feedback, it can EASILY kill someone that goes for the burst when its up – If you see it move OUT before you ANY attacks. I play Mesmer and rarely use Confuse but thats because of the build i play – keeping Illusions up rather then destroying them

Keep in mind that moving out will not be enough for Feedback. None of your ranged attacks can hit the bubble in any way shape or form, which means even if you move out, a Mesmer can move in or keep the bubble between you.

Move forward through the bubble and knock the mesmer back on the other side before he can close in on it. If he does get inside it, wait it out to attack.

You all should just make videos how you own and kite everyone with a Ranger. Laughing my kitten off here.

necros in spvp? what kind of spvp are you doing? necros are the less used class in spvp (well, pretty much anywhere).. their mechanics are so broken they can’t perform any role even after the ten fixes they recieved in the last patch

the only classes that dominate spvp are currently thieves and mesmers, more mesmers than thieves, the rest are warriors (not cannon glass, that build is a joke to counter) and guardians, then the others, last the necro, but widely the most played classes are indeed mesmers and thieves

I’m seeing a lower variety of classes lately in sPVP (still see a variety in tournaments though), the more sPVP I run now the more thieves I encounter but there’s still a high number of warriors and guardians as well. I think thieves has become popular because of the render problem the game has, getting killed by a player you can’t see.

I even tested this myself on my thief, my thief is normally a dual pistols thief (which is fairly challenging) but I resorted to dagger/dagger and it made me think I was doing well because hardly anyone ever responded to my attacks.

So yeah… if you’re playing a thief and think you’re so good, think about it some more.

Boy is it rare to see a thread that says that necros are very very powerful.

Yeah tell me about it, maybe there’s something I don’t know? My necro is fun to pvp with but… I don’t gib someone down as fast as I can with my mesmer or thief.

As said, you’re pretty much hard countered by condition removal. Shortbow, however, is quite strong with a Power build, too. The bleed stacking becomes less effective, but it’s just gravy anyway. Your sustained damage is no longer hard-countered by condition removal.

The biggest flaw with bleed Rangers, and Thieves is that they lack multiple conditions for condition protection, and many specs are starting to include more passive condition removal. They pretty much have short-duration everything besides poison and bleed stacking, so anyone with a couple of remove 1 condition every x seconds, or on-swap/skill use is becoming quite powerful against them.

Necro’s that use conditions (like me) can be killed through burst dmg pretty easy. We use dots to try and kill other players off but most players who are built right have condition removal and spell to get them selves back up in health.

I can go 1v3 and win, and other times i can go 1v1 and lose. Its all dependent on the players build and if the know how to counter what I am doing and same goes for me to win.

Moa Malady.3176:

[…]
Thieves seem to be able to always get close, and then put me in almost permanent stunlock so that I can neither attack nor move. It’s GG at that point, if it’s 1v1.Certain elementalists can do about 70% of my health in less than five seconds, and I basically get the rest burnt off in the few seconds after. Necros do something similar, but I haven’t lived long enough to figure out what happens, I just know it involves poison. Mesmers, I have no idea how they kill me. Or specifically, how sometimes they do, and sometimes they seem so ineffective as to be just fodder. Either way, it seems the team fights are over before they begin, if the teams aren’t profession-balanced. All four of these classes can do massive amounts very quickly, or even more massive amounts of damage over a few seconds, making quick work of just about everyone.

I will answer this since I play thief. I usually cycle through the different builds, but my favorite is still Backstab Thief. With mine, I usually run Shadowstep, Scorpion Wire, and Assassin’s Signet. Because of the first two, plus Steal, this gives me 3 gap closers. I can use Steal and combo it with CnD (my preferred, as its just fluid to pull off). If that’s on cooldown, I can Shadowstep infront of you, turn around and CnD (Cloak & Dagger, does damage, stealths me). As you continue to run past me, I just hit you in the back with a Backstab. And Scorpion Wire just looks awesome and stuns long enough for CnD and Backstab.

So yeah, if a Thief has Steal, Scorpion Wire, and Shadowstep, you’re probably not going to get away. :P

You say thieves stun lock you? Not sure if you mean actual stun or immobilize, I’m assumming immobilize. We do have a stun in Basilisk Venom, which turns you to stone, but it only last 1-2 seconds. 1 Second base, I’m assuming 2 if traited with an extra venom strike from Grandmaster in our Deadly Arts tree. There’s nothing you can do from this except pray you survive.

Immobilize from Devourers Venom, now this you can attack etc, you just cant run around and dodge. Get used to removing this. For this and other conditions I bring Shadowstep myself. Great counter to Warriors as well, and the added utility/survivability I get from is just awesome. For a Ranger you have 2 skills that break conditions like these: Lightning Reflexes, and Signet of Renewal. I would suggest taking one of these with you at all times. Or just suffer through it when you get immobilized.

Kargion.6352:

Necro’s that use conditions (like me) can be killed through burst dmg pretty easy. We use dots to try and kill other players off but most players who are built right have condition removal and spell to get them selves back up in health.

I can go 1v3 and win, and other times i can go 1v1 and lose. Its all dependent on the players build and if the know how to counter what I am doing and same goes for me to win.

Yeah, you dang Necro’s and your 50 freaking health bars. But thats usually not an issue for me when playing a Backstab thief. Have as many health bars as you want while I’m hitting you for 8k repeatedly, you die eventually.

backstab thieves are too easy and predictable for my necro. Only time I die to them is when they backstab me out of nowhere while I’m fighting 1 or 2 other people and my stunbreaks and DS are on cooldown.

Your a ranger lol they are very good in spvp shortbow 1 skill is very very good… a little 2 good if you ask me but thats for a different thread.

Every class has a good spec in sPVP. I’ve played them all.

You need to figure out what the other classes do. You’re behind the curve right now, because there’s no real ladder system that will separate players based on skill level.

That means that you need to do prep work, lots and lots of prep work. Figure out how the other classes work, what their weaknesses are.

Make alts, spec and gear then out (customize!), then play with them in sPVP.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

IDICERI.4268:

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

You are also forgetting Feedback, it can EASILY kill someone that goes for the burst when its up – If you see it move OUT before you ANY attacks. I play Mesmer and rarely use Confuse but thats because of the build i play – keeping Illusions up rather then destroying them

Keep in mind that moving out will not be enough for Feedback. None of your ranged attacks can hit the bubble in any way shape or form, which means even if you move out, a Mesmer can move in or keep the bubble between you.

Move forward through the bubble and knock the mesmer back on the other side before he can close in on it. If he does get inside it, wait it out to attack.

Yeah i was thinking about moving forward or sideways out of it. So even if you are not in the bubble but its between you and the mersmer/target and use a range ability then its still reflected?

I wonder if it can be cast on yourself? a better option then on a target that can just move out of it – pop it on yourself and then if they attack while running at you they take damage and if they attack while inside it they take damage so you get the full use rather then a second or 2

Any time a projectile comes into contact with the field circle, from without or within, the projectile is reflected.

The Utility Ability is focused around a target enemy, unfortunately, the only way to make it field around yourself is if the enemy targetd is at point blank. Works well when trying to focus down an enemy who has an ally attacking you from ranged, if you’ve got the focus target pinned.

There is an ability called “Medic’s Feedback” that employs the same field around you when you attempt to resurrect an ally. This is the only case in which yourself or an ally is considered a target for the ability.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Any time a projectile comes into contact with the field circle, from without or within, the projectile is reflected.

The Utility Ability is focused around a target enemy, unfortunately, the only way to make it field around yourself is if the enemy targetd is at point blank. Works well when trying to focus down an enemy who has an ally attacking you from ranged, if you’ve got the focus target pinned.

There is an ability called “Medic’s Feedback” that employs the same field around you when you attempt to resurrect an ally. This is the only case in which yourself or an ally is considered a target for the ability.

Thats a real shame, feel it would be better suited if it could target an ally/self or enemy like to use to profect people that are getting blasted at – would be useful for ressing downed players thanks to that OP arrow attack either from Thief or siege weapons

Untouch.2541:

Ooh, I see we’re adding necros to the list of “OP classes”!

which is kinda funny, seeing as how from what i hear from Necros the class isnt that great – i loved them in BWE3 with a Condition build but that got nerfed and seemed useless now i just dunno if i would enjoy the class i ONLY want to play a Condition build

Necros are fun to play and can be very powerful despite what most people say on forums

Maybe its just that pve pet builds are not very good in pvp …

It’s interesting the classes you seem to favor. I also play a ranger…

I rarely lose (I’d guess I win 8.5 of 10) 1v1 to an elementalist or necro, easy stuff… but I HATE going 1v1 against an engineer and lose 75%. Thieves and mesmersit’s 50/50 depending on their playing skills, warr’s and guards I can beat most of the time.

It’s just odd how we both play the same class and have trouble and beat different classes than one another. I think it’s in our heads and varies more by build than class.

Z

Kneru.8014:

Immobilize from Devourers Venom, now this you can attack etc, you just cant run around and dodge. Get used to removing this. For this and other conditions I bring Shadowstep myself. Great counter to Warriors as well, and the added utility/survivability I get from is just awesome. For a Ranger you have 2 skills that break conditions like these: Lightning Reflexes, and Signet of Renewal. I would suggest taking one of these with you at all times. Or just suffer through it when you get immobilized.

Lightning reflexes does not break immobolize. Also note that a thief can take an extremely useful offsensive/defensive mobility skill (shadowstep) to break immobilize. From memory I can get away with the shortbow shadow step as well.

Ranger has the signet or a trait/pet option, but I usually just use the healing spring which removes conditions, you will probably need the heal at that point too anyway.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Necros are fun to play and can be very powerful despite what most people say on forums

Maybe its just that pve pet builds are not very good in pvp …

Necro’s problem is that they suffer quite heavily in sPvP purely because of the sheer amount of class cannon builds out there. Condition specs are currently one of the few viable builds for 8v8 and it means we have a huge ramp up time and due to starting with 0 life force and the standard scepter/dagger/staff having very little life force gain get insta gibbed pretty easily by all the burst.

Give us a good team and all that is holding necro’s back is the metric ton of bugs and crappy minion AI.

Did some tpvp with my guild and we’ve been encountering teams like 3 guardians and 2 rangers, they were a super PITA to fight considering all the 3 guardians were bunker spec and the rangers just stuck their pets on you no matter how much you LOS’d their arrows.

If you play a condition ranger, then yes most Necros will give you trouble.

Everytime I fight one of you guys, yall blow cooldowns and stack 20 stack of bleed on me within seconds. The problem is I run a signet that sends all conditions on myself to my target. And since I’ve found most rangers haven’t learned anything other then doing that large stack of bleeds quickly and just watching their target die, they don’t have the ability to counter it if someone turns the table.

Paranoid.9542:

TLDR; Rock is OP, Paper is balanced – Scissors

Hilarious, and oh so true!

I’m appreciating all the feedback I’m getting, everyone! Thank all of you!

It seems that it would be conducive for me to play around with the other classes so I can better understand how I work, for sure. And now, at least I have an inkling of what they’re doing (especially thieves, who from what I am learning, I just need to keep 500 miles away from at all times), and potentially try something other than a condition damage build. I may have to play around long enough to find a balance between the solid soldier crushing ability of my condition build, and having decent viability against everyone else.

To ZNICK: I think some of our differences may come from what we’re playing against. Many of the engineers I play against focus pretty heavily on turrets, which can be spiked down pretty quickly, leaving the engineers pretty much useless. Similarly, I end up fighting a lot of elementalists that seemed to really know what they were doing when it came to fighting single targets, cause I rarely every saw them in the team fights, and didn’t see most of the common AoE fire and air abilities when they were there. It is pretty neat how different we are, though. What build do you use?

Speaking of, how do you guys think a power build would work with Shortbow/Longsword? Longswords seem to work pretty well for getting damage out quickly, and the parrying might be able to help against thieves more, I’d think, right? I’d still have the shortbow bleeds against most targets, too.

I have seen greatsword work out quite well with an power build, 1 thing you do need to watch is know when to switch back to your bow.. cause i have seen some rangers who were so stuck to their sword that they could be kited around since they were to reluctant to switch
atm longbow still looks cooler to me, but that could be the whole Legolas/Sniper feel that gets me :P

Come watch Pooka solo entire groups of all those classes as a ranger : )