Guild Wars 2

I responded too soon to this thread.

Today I played against mesmers when not on mesmer, and I have to say i totally get why people think it is OP. Now this isnt to say that the qq about bursting is correct, because i think mesmer bursts are in the perfect place rn, however it’s more about PU and the blind on shatter traits.

I was playing warrior, some man mode zerker gs axe/shield and encountered two mesmers in stronghold both running the same build of staff gs blind on shatter and PU (well one was lockdown). They were honestly the least fun thing to fight against. They reminded me of cele ele and shoutbow, things that just would not die no matter how stupidly they were played. One of the mesmers actually landed some bursts on me, but the other one I fought for a full minute 1v1 and he never landed a full burst. I kept trying to kill him but somehow he managed to stay alive at around 25-50% health while i was just getting bored sitting with 90% health. The blind on shatter trait just makes mesmer a spammy class that just shatter everytime someone comes close to them instead of actually paying attention and dodging when it is right. He was also using mantra of distraction and still couldn’t burst on me, yet i couldn’t kill him and eventually had to disengage because it was just a stupid fight.

Now I main mesmer but im not that great and I don’t play pvp much anymore because it’s just too boring, so it may be an l2p issue, but I feel like some of the new traits are really dumbing down the class. Mesmer should be more of a risk and reward class. I mean Anet got rid of celestial (thank god) and then went ahead and added insane survival to some classes to basically make it the same thing, where people just won’t die. They also got rid of the whole phantasm death builds to prevent that kind of gameplay, and yet its the same thing I’m seeing from these blind on shatter mesmers.

And don’t get me started on the condi aids that is mesmer in wvw O.o.

I don’t think mesmer is that Op because they lose a lot when they run builds like this, but i do think these traits are not good for the class and will carry people just like celestial carried shoutbows and eles who just spammed their buttons.

I’m really getting tired of all the memers running around spamming mantra and stunning me with no tell. This class was so dumbed down everyone can go and play it. All the instant stuns and dazes, along with unavoidable blind, 15 sec cd on anything interrupted, stealth burst is just way too much. I’m really hoping they’re getting a nerf soon, because this is not fun at all.

Well people saying condi mesmer is not reliable in pvp not know much condi mesmer.
Playing warrior with berserker stance, using signet for the resistance is useless, simply cant kill condi mesmer and it will end i get killed, is not the damage from the condi, is that they keep spam them in every single attack and every single thing they do, even by playing full condi removal with cleansing ire (that i already said its useless against mesmer thx to blind/aegis/interrupt spam, you will never land a single burst, if you do you are playing against a pver). I already said that cleansing ire is totaly wrong in 20201020 thousand times, a defence trait should never work on hit, actualy brawler recovery (that isnt even a granmaster trait) is solving more condition than cleansing ire, cuz is doing the job right. You blinded me? my solving trait shouldnt care about it, cuz blind is a condition and the counterplay to blind is remove that condition.

Actualy every game i m playing i m hoping there’s no mesmer cuz is totaly no fun every match that has a mesmer. I would really dont know where to start to nerf mesmer, cuz really as the topic opener said, it is BROKEN. But would be almost okay if it requires at least some decent skill, instead is even easy to play, every attack always hit, most of their burst are immediate skill that dont even require to target, and when in trouble? He disappeare getting that free aegis, recharge mantra rdy to reset the fight, else go distortion, yea that endure pain+berserker stance that is even more accessible than warrior’s best defence utility, and that isnt even an utility!
Distortion is a free mechanic that mesmer always has without having to waste any utility! Would be fun if warrior could do that too, i press f4 and i get free berserker stance and endure pain.

champ.7021:

I responded too soon to this thread.

Today I played against mesmers when not on mesmer, and I have to say i totally get why people think it is OP. Now this isnt to say that the qq about bursting is correct, because i think mesmer bursts are in the perfect place rn, however it’s more about PU and the blind on shatter traits.

I was playing warrior, some man mode zerker gs axe/shield and encountered two mesmers in stronghold both running the same build of staff gs blind on shatter and PU (well one was lockdown). They were honestly the least fun thing to fight against. They reminded me of cele ele and shoutbow, things that just would not die no matter how stupidly they were played. One of the mesmers actually landed some bursts on me, but the other one I fought for a full minute 1v1 and he never landed a full burst. I kept trying to kill him but somehow he managed to stay alive at around 25-50% health while i was just getting bored sitting with 90% health. The blind on shatter trait just makes mesmer a spammy class that just shatter everytime someone comes close to them instead of actually paying attention and dodging when it is right. He was also using mantra of distraction and still couldn’t burst on me, yet i couldn’t kill him and eventually had to disengage because it was just a stupid fight.

Now I main mesmer but im not that great and I don’t play pvp much anymore because it’s just too boring, so it may be an l2p issue, but I feel like some of the new traits are really dumbing down the class. Mesmer should be more of a risk and reward class. I mean Anet got rid of celestial (thank god) and then went ahead and added insane survival to some classes to basically make it the same thing, where people just won’t die. They also got rid of the whole phantasm death builds to prevent that kind of gameplay, and yet its the same thing I’m seeing from these blind on shatter mesmers.

And don’t get me started on the condi aids that is mesmer in wvw O.o.

I don’t think mesmer is that Op because they lose a lot when they run builds like this, but i do think these traits are not good for the class and will carry people just like celestial carried shoutbows and eles who just spammed their buttons.

So…. You’re complaining about playing against two obviously crap Mesmers that couldn’t burst a zerk warrior? And saying they op because you couldn’t kill them due to traits you think they were running… Wow

DaShi.1368:

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

I know right.

Sword mainhand is already a shadow of its former self – I can’t believe complaints about blurred frenzy now… an evade that roots you, can kill yourself from retal and has low damage anyway… nevermind the evade spam possible on other class weapons (ranger/thief…)

Seems like people are using the excuse of a FEW mesmer trait issues post-patch, as well as game-wide damage issues (ie, the need to shave amulets and rebalance stats) that affect all classes, to unleash all their pent up hatred of mesmers over the last few years.

I bet there will be nonsensical complaints about iMage giving too much fury and Mirror Images giving too many clones, or something equally ridiculous next.

I know – how about signet of illusions recharging shatters! Oh wow, that’s broken – they can instantly burst after using that signet – nerf please! :o

I fully agree some mesmer specific trait combinations need to be looked at and dealt with (Confounding Suggestions, Blinding Dissipation, PU, free 15% phant damage…), but everything else existed pre-patch and is quite honestly a L2P issue.

Curunen.8729:

DaShi.1368:

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

I know right.

Sword mainhand is already a shadow of its former self – I can’t believe complaints about blurred frenzy now…

Seems like people are using the excuse of a FEW mesmer trait issues post-patch, as well as game-wide damage issues (ie, the need to shave amulets and rebalance stats) that affect all classes, to unleash all their pent up hatred of mesmers over the last few years.

I bet there will be nonsensical complaints about iMage giving too much fury and Mirror Images giving too many clones, or something equally ridiculous next.

I know – how about signet of illusions recharging shatters! Oh wow, that’s broken – they can instantly burst after using that signet – nerf please! :o

I fully agree some mesmer specific trait combinations need to be looked at and dealt with (Confounding Suggestions, Blinding Dissipation, PU, free 15% phant damage…), but everything else existed pre-patch and is quite honestly a L2P issue.

I agree with everything but the free phant damage. I like to think of it as a trade off for how squishy the are against aoe.
However I did see someone complain about iWarlock doing too much damage against an opponent with 25 stacks of vuln and other condi’s lol.

But on the whole except for CS and PU, maybe blinding I don’t play with it much so I can’t say, everything else is good trait synergy and a l2p issue. People want to run zerker gear and stand still for full bursts(in my experience) and complain about being “1 shot”.
Sigh

FlawlezZ.3178:

online.1278:

Yeah some mesmer now does almost 20k dmg in only 1~2 sec and rekt warrior’s full hp. I would say they are broken now

Video? I want to see that

Me too. Most I have been mesmer bursted in SPVP was around 10-2k, however, some mesmer builds do allow for a 2nd burst too soon, I think like 10 secs. or so, I personally havent tried that yet on mine.

On a side topic, I have however seen thieves in WvW roaming do 22-24k bursts to tank spec guards and wars, and yes, there are videos which you can easily find via google.

Mesmer burst is not a prob here -.-; Blind spam is and the sustain they got with such high burst potential.

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer burst is not a prob here -.-; Blind spam is and the sustain they got with such high burst potential.

thq God for that or else they would be like before patch. A squishy lunch for all.

One shot – one kill. No luck, no skill, its mesmer

Vieux P.1238:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer burst is not a prob here -.-; Blind spam is and the sustain they got with such high burst potential.

thq God for that or else they would be like before patch. A squishy lunch for all.

I’m not sayin to turn em back postpatch. Just sayin it’s a lil 2 much now. But well. Every class had it’s up and down times I believe so we need to adapt :P

If you want PU to be nerfed, bring back the nerfed Triumphant Distortion.
If you want to nerf CS, bring back the nerfed MtD.
If you want to nerf Power Block, bring back the AoE condi cleansing of Restorative illusions.
If you want to fix blind bug, also fix Mender Purity.
If you want to nerf the perma fury trait, bring back the idea of the new Confusing Combatants.
If you want to nerf even more BF, buff staff and torch traits at 3% recharge.

But if you want to survive at mesmer bursts, stop playing a 1-button-win/smash-your-face-into-keyboard build and start learning how this game is played in a skilled way, where survivability comes with active defenses, and not passive boosts/evades or insane base stats, and damage is done by combining 3-5 skills, and no press 1 button=10k damage.

People forget mesmera, while receiving a lot of buffs, have also received a lot of nerfs here and there.

I agree mesmers seem very broken atm at least in pvp

High amounts of cc
High survivability
Ability to disengage at will
High damage

There is no trade off for any of the benefits the mesmer chooses to take, they can just be extremely efficient at all of them at the same time

States.6387:

I agree mesmers seem very broken atm at least in pvp

High amounts of cc
High survivability
Ability to disengage at will
High damage

There is no trade off for any of the benefits the mesmer chooses to take, they can just be extremely efficient at all of them at the same time

So because your necro isn’t good any more(your opinion not mine) and you probably have a hard time fighting Mesmers on Ranger due to reflects the class is broken? Lol ok.

Jace al Thor.6745:

States.6387:

I agree mesmers seem very broken atm at least in pvp

High amounts of cc
High survivability
Ability to disengage at will
High damage

There is no trade off for any of the benefits the mesmer chooses to take, they can just be extremely efficient at all of them at the same time

So because your necro isn’t good any more(your opinion not mine) and you probably have a hard time fighting Mesmers on Ranger due to reflects the class is broken? Lol ok.

Nice attempt at the trolling bud but
1.) i never said anything about rangers or necro (where have i ever even said necro’s are no longer good? )
2.) i never said i couldnt beat them (because i still do)
3.) i never mentioned anything about reflects (i havnt even seen an issue with reflects on them)

It’s like you read a complete different comment before you chose to reply to mine

But maybe instead of showing your immaturity you want to explain how i am wrong?

When played right, Mesmer are absolute beasts, but it’s funny how many people are now rolling mesmers to try and take advantage of this. I wish I had a dollar for every time I went against a Mesmer that was just mindlessly spamming interrupts randomly.

The one good thing I have to do with the current imbalance is that it’s at least on builds with more complex mechanics, which is a step above overturned healing signet hambow and knock back spamming turret builds.

How many threads like this have there been over the years? We all know and I mean really we know mesmer is OP right now. Like thief was and engineer and ele and warrior and necro etc. over the years. Lets cut the bs for once.

Every class ends up with it’s day in the light where it destroys the others. And instead of long time players saying,“Wow this seems unbalanced”, we see the same thing, “There’s nothing wrong with it you must be a bad player or a newb”. It is a joke at this point. How oblivious can people be? It is not like we don’t know the signs because we have seen them so often.

Maybe if this game goes 5 more years well end up with a community that actually wants as close to a fair fight as possible. So far I see the same people saying the same things to inflate their opinions of themselves, “I win you lose this build is not OP! Your’e just a scrub.” At the end of the day the nerfs goes through people cry and we target the next highest thing we can’t beat and say OP.

So how about this? Take ego out of it and ask yourself these things:

You might just be bad at pvp?
Were you ok fighting this class/build before the major buff/nerf?
Were you terrible on this class before the buff and now your’e invincible?
Is this build really balanced vs the meta?
Can you think of a one class/build counter?
Are you winning or is your build winning?

Sit back and think a minute.

States.6387:

I used to main my necro with a spectral tank build. But due to the changes in traits that completely removed this option i have lost all desire to even use my necro anymore. He doesnt seem as tanky as he used to be and if you do spec into a tank build the damage is a lot lower it seems like than the old tank builds.

What sucks even more is my alt i played was a ranger which is doing better than necro imo but also doing a lot worse than before.

I definitely chose the wrong classes to main / gear up in this game o_o

1) Well your post history says so mate
2) I didn’t say you couldn’t.
3) Based off what you say you play Mesmer counters them. Necro fairly hard when running a CI lockdown build and ranger when traited for reflects. But lockdown doesn’t run inspiration it’s generally choas/Dom/illusion. Shatter is generally Dom/dueling/illusion. So this high survivability is the same as it was pre patch.
Mesmer has ALWAYS had some of the, if not the best, in combat mobility so why wouldn’t they be able to disengage at will? Again that’s nothing new.
High damage isn’t something particularl to Mesmer. All classes have seen a power creep after the patch so why even complain about damage? Each build has different uses and they work well.
Just because they work well doesn’t mean they’re OP.

Jace al Thor.6745:

States.6387:

I used to main my necro with a spectral tank build. But due to the changes in traits that completely removed this option i have lost all desire to even use my necro anymore. He doesnt seem as tanky as he used to be and if you do spec into a tank build the damage is a lot lower it seems like than the old tank builds.

What sucks even more is my alt i played was a ranger which is doing better than necro imo but also doing a lot worse than before.

I definitely chose the wrong classes to main / gear up in this game o_o

1) Well your post history says so mate
2) I didn’t say you couldn’t.
3) Based off what you say you play Mesmer counters them. Necro fairly hard when running a CI lockdown build and ranger when traited for reflects. But lockdown doesn’t run inspiration it’s generally choas/Dom/illusion. Shatter is generally Dom/dueling/illusion. So this high survivability is the same as it was pre patch.
Mesmer has ALWAYS had some of the, if not the best, in combat mobility so why wouldn’t they be able to disengage at will? Again that’s nothing new.
High damage isn’t something particularl to Mesmer. All classes have seen a power creep after the patch so why even complain about damage? Each build has different uses and they work well.
Just because they work well doesn’t mean they’re OP.

Lol you need to work on your comprehension skills bud. You pulled a comment about me expressing why i am not as fond of necro’s anymore and an opinion of them being weaker than before on tank builds. So nice job on screwing up your personal attack But maybe since you’ve been stalking me you have another comment from other posts you’d like to use?

As far as mesmers your losing more of your credibility by not actually explaining how my points are wrong. Instead your just pointing out that some of them have been aspects of the mesmer for a while.

To make things easier for you try to explain what potential the mesmer contains that can only be achieved through trading off another potential. (such as power for condi or cc for survivability)

But please when you respond try to do so in a mature and logical way, continuing with false assumptions and personal attacks is only going to make you and your argument look like a joke

Roll up a mesmer, learn the skills and rotations from the meta shatter and mantra shatter and condi shatter – these 3 will be the builds you see in tpvp usually.. Learn what is needed to setup burst and count the rotation of stealth internally and practice.

In order to beat mesmer or to atleast viably compete with mesmer, you need to know what they need to do and utilizing internal counting the same way you internally count against a trickery thief’s steal is absolutely necessary. You can’t just face roll mesmer anymore, but in reality you couldn’t even face roll mesmer pre-patch , against good ones at least.

In this game, and especially in top tier you need to know your enemy in order to fight them. Not just the build itself but the person playing it , watch how typical mesmers setup their bursts and understand what is needed by them to accomplish it.

I also encourage you to watch top tier mesmer streamers and learn how they setup burst rotations and fight people, it’s pretty important to get a perspective from a top tier player to learn to fight them as well, not just rolling one up yourself.

Mesmer is worse now than engi nade bug EVER was. At least with the nades you had to aim and throw em. Any mesmer can blink in and rattle off some instant shatters, all the time spamming daze. There’s little more to it than that.

I love my mesmer. Out of my 8, it’s my favorite, but if you’re playing mesmer right now, you’re just cashing in on free wins on a broken class. There’s a reason every team has 2 mesmers right now.

Don’t know how they’ll nerf it in PvP without hurting it in PvE, but the nerf is coming and it’s going to hurt.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Roll up a mesmer, learn the skills and rotations from the meta shatter and mantra shatter and condi shatter – these 3 will be the builds you see in tpvp usually.. Learn what is needed to setup burst and count the rotation of stealth internally and practice.

In order to beat mesmer or to atleast viably compete with mesmer, you need to know what they need to do and utilizing internal counting the same way you internally count against a trickery thief’s steal is absolutely necessary. You can’t just face roll mesmer anymore, but in reality you couldn’t even face roll mesmer pre-patch , against good ones at least.

In this game, and especially in top tier you need to know your enemy in order to fight them. Not just the build itself but the person playing it , watch how typical mesmers setup their bursts and understand what is needed by them to accomplish it.

I also encourage you to watch top tier mesmer streamers and learn how they setup burst rotations and fight people, it’s pretty important to get a perspective from a top tier player to learn to fight them as well, not just rolling one up yourself.

been there, done that…. and then i realized that mes is waaaayyyy too rewarding atm…. i actually mashed random keys for fun and attacked someone to see waht happend… i almost killed them :|

Lol it’s nice that you have to make fun of others. But what you’re saying I’m doing you yourself have already done.
Saying something is OP because it has X and too much Y is rather lackluster.
Especially considering that you want to make it out like all that is in one build. It’s not.
I’m not sure how it would need to be spelled out to you. Other than PU needing to be reduced(which happens to be WvW related more than PVP because stealth can’t cap a point), CS needing a per target icd and Anet telling us if blind on shatter is working as intended or not nothing has changed THAT much from pre to post patch.
Mesmer has always had superior burst. It had to be set up and still does. Now though the traits for it allow capitalization on lack of skill use. Hence great synergy.

Lockdown offers superior CC. Pre patch only a handful of players used it. But the ones
that did played it extremely well. The difference is Powerblock is actually used now since the combined it and halting strike. Which made an otherwise useless GM usable. Therefore PB and CI have good synergy now. The only problem is CS procs a little too often and that’s acknowledge throughout the Mesmer community.

Neither of these build take condi clear. Shatter, especially full zerk, will run decoy blink and portal with MI.
A lockdown build has more flexibility but tends to stay with decoy blink and mantra of distraction with MI/Moa depending on the situation.
Therefore very weak to conditions.
Also, as these are the two most common build you’ll see we can address another issue. At this time marauder’s is a popular amulet for Mesmers to run since it offer vitality. A lot still run zerker however. The point is regardless of the two being ran there’s no toughness involved. Travelers, pack, stength, hoelbrak, etc all those runes provide is, except for travelers, a power increase with other offensive stat increases. Not defense.
So it would be very easy to CC a Mesmer, especially if you make them burn distortion, and burst them down.
PvP does happen to be a team fight, call target and focus fire.

I think mes just needs some slight shaving in the following way:

(1) Confounding Suggestions: Daze converts to a stun only if you interrupt a skill.
Reasoning: Right now, CS synergizes with MoD too well. You can instant-cast MoD while bursting, and CS will convert the MoD into a stun which virtually guarantees that your burst will land. Since MoD is instantcast and will always proc the stun (aside from ICD), there’s little skill required from the mesmer, and little counterplay from the opponent. Tying it to stun-on-interrupt would increase the skill required from the mesmer. It would also give more value to the other portion of the trait, which is to increase daze duration.

(2) Fix Blinding Dissipation so it doesn’t go through evades. I think this is more of a bug fix — I doubt anyone would disagree here.

(3) Reduce PU uptime to 50% (you could increase boon gain to compensate if necessary). As a general rule, I don’t think traits that promote stealth-camping are good for the game. Small duration stealths allow interesting repositioning, and allow for more counterplay because you can predict what someone will do with his limited invisibility time. A lot of that goes out the window when you can stealth for 6+ seconds.

(4) Revert +15% phantasm damage being made baseline. You could increase the Dom adept phantasm damage trait to compensate for people who want to run phantasm builds.

Jace al Thor.6745:

So…. You’re complaining about playing against two obviously crap Mesmers that couldn’t burst a zerk warrior? And saying they op because you couldn’t kill them due to traits you think they were running… Wow

So serious question…do you have a disease where when someone criticizes your class your eyes immediately glass over and you cant read anymore? Should get that checked out

First of all that isn’t my first encounter with mesmer post patch, it was my most jarring experience in pvp. I’ve had more annoying fights in wvw some i won and the ones against condi i lost bc no stance and i suck against condi.

Nowhere did i say it is OP. I said that I can understand why people believe it is. I play mesmer in every game mode and it’s my favorite class. I want it to be the best it can be, and personally i think some of these traits are dumbing down the class. I’m pointing out that the traits like PU and like blind on shatter and like lockdown with mantra are giving too much spammable survivability to mesmer. Mesmer is a glassy class and should have to position itself properly in order to burst and survive. It should not be about how many times they can spam distract or shatter whenever someone comes close to them.

I don’t think these traits should be removed, I think they should be toned down. I like the burst mesmer has gotten from this patch, because prepatch the burst was not strong enough for the amount of preparation it took and how easily it could be avoided. Now the power is in a good place but they have way too much survival. I was comparing it to shoutbow because it was that kind of build to fight against. Not fun, boring and at the end of the day just stupid.

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

Gern.2978:

Seemingly Tons of healing, Infinite stealth, seemingly infinite teleports plus crazy condition damage seems to be a bit too much. I don’t know though, maybe I just suck.

Seemingly new to the game or drowning us in hyperbole? I honestly can’t tell.

GW2 is hardcore causal and pretty much encourages multiclassing for pvp. Combine this with the fact that balance patches come out so excruciatingly slow at the best of times, and now that the dev’s are focused on the expansion I don’t think its realistic to expect much change until the xpac. I suggest you try a mesmer out in pvp instead.

If something is strong, overpowered or even broken I recommend you get on board and play it rather wait for tweaks to be made. Everyone else is going to be playing/using the strongest mechanics and classes, so why arbitrarily handicap yourself?

It’s definitely hyperbole. Gern thought the old Grenadier trait that allowed grenades to hit players multiple times for huge amounts of damage (so much that Anet had to disable until they could fix it) was balanced.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

You can run PU and lockdown now. Confounding Suggestions + PU.

Pre-patch, i.e. before buff to CS, you needed CI’s immobilize-on-interrupt to set up your bursts. Without CI, your opponent would only be dazed, and he’d still be able to dodge to avoid your follow-up burst. CI was one of the major traits that defined most lockdown builds.

But now that CS has been buffed to a 100% stun and moved to adept, you don’t really need CI. Dazing your opponent will stun him, which prevents him from dodging, which means you can usually land your burst.

Of course, CI still offers advantages, since you can’t stunbreak an immobilize, and the CI immobilize lasts longer. But you don’t really need it anymore to run a lockdown build. CS + Power Block is enough.

ResJudicator.7916:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

You can run PU and lockdown now. Confounding Suggestions + PU.

Pre-patch, i.e. before buff to CS, you needed CI’s immobilize-on-interrupt to set up your bursts. Without CI, your opponent would only be dazed, and he’d still be able to dodge to avoid your follow-up burst. CI was one of the major traits that defined most lockdown builds.

But now that CS has been buffed to a 100% stun and moved to adept, you don’t really need CI. Dazing your opponent will stun him, which prevents him from dodging, which means you can usually land your burst.

Of course, CI still offers advantages, since you can’t stunbreak an immobilize, and the CI immobilize lasts longer. But you don’t really need it anymore to run a lockdown build. CS + Power Block is enough.

I suppose. But maybe it’s just me that I find going with CI and the immob is rather pointless even with CS.

With mesmer’s increased survivability AND increased stealth, the mechanics aren’t bad, but they should get reassigned to the lowest health pool. Especially post patch where thief lost a lot of evades, there is no good reason Mesmer should still have 40-50% more base health than a thief.

You want to be bursty/blindy/evady like pre-patch thief? Sure, but your hp pool should not be mid-tier, it should absolutely be moved to the lowest tier.

Placebo Effect.4508:

With mesmer’s increased survivability AND increased stealth, the mechanics aren’t bad, but they should get reassigned to the lowest health pool. Especially post patch where thief lost a lot of evades, there is no good reason Mesmer should still have 40-50% more base health than a thief.

You want to be bursty/blindy/evady like pre-patch thief? Sure, but your hp pool should not be mid-tier, it should absolutely be moved to the lowest tier.

Ok since everyone wants to use max possible burst as argument for a viable pvp build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITieQhX0MeE
warrior op

Extreme.8350:

Placebo Effect.4508:

With mesmer’s increased survivability AND increased stealth, the mechanics aren’t bad, but they should get reassigned to the lowest health pool. Especially post patch where thief lost a lot of evades, there is no good reason Mesmer should still have 40-50% more base health than a thief.

You want to be bursty/blindy/evady like pre-patch thief? Sure, but your hp pool should not be mid-tier, it should absolutely be moved to the lowest tier.

Ok since everyone wants to use max possible burst as argument for a viable pvp build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITieQhX0MeE
warrior op

why is video of some pvp fight is here?

also 100b is way easier to avoid than ranged burst from stealth and long daze (not to mention undodgeable blind)

Nobody is saying at all maximum burst = viable pvp build. If that was the case then rifle warriors would be meta, but they’re not.

People’s problems with mesmer is you get practically everything in one single build (except good condi cleanse, HINT HINT guys) including survivability.

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Placebo Effect.4508:

With mesmer’s increased survivability AND increased stealth, the mechanics aren’t bad, but they should get reassigned to the lowest health pool. Especially post patch where thief lost a lot of evades, there is no good reason Mesmer should still have 40-50% more base health than a thief.

You want to be bursty/blindy/evady like pre-patch thief? Sure, but your hp pool should not be mid-tier, it should absolutely be moved to the lowest tier.

Ok since everyone wants to use max possible burst as argument for a viable pvp build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITieQhX0MeE
warrior op

why is video of some pvp fight is here?

also 100b is way easier to avoid than ranger burst from stealth and long daze (not to mention undodgeable blind)

why do i kill 9/10 “burst” mesmers with my condi mesmer if its so strong
im not even a pro im just rank 79
the competitive scene in this game is a joke abjured farming randoms
they dont even use mesmer and still win
They could probably run 5 power rangers and still win

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Placebo Effect.4508:

With mesmer’s increased survivability AND increased stealth, the mechanics aren’t bad, but they should get reassigned to the lowest health pool. Especially post patch where thief lost a lot of evades, there is no good reason Mesmer should still have 40-50% more base health than a thief.

You want to be bursty/blindy/evady like pre-patch thief? Sure, but your hp pool should not be mid-tier, it should absolutely be moved to the lowest tier.

Ok since everyone wants to use max possible burst as argument for a viable pvp build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITieQhX0MeE
warrior op

why is video of some pvp fight is here?

also 100b is way easier to avoid than ranger burst from stealth and long daze (not to mention undodgeable blind)

why do i kill 9/10 “burst” mesmers with my condi mesmer if its so strong
im not even a pro im just rank 79
the competitive scene in this game is a joke abjured farming randoms
they dont even use mesmer and still win
They could probably run 5 power rangers and still win

Yeah good thing entire game is developed around 5 ppl on NA servers~
Meanwhile on EU we have few competitive teams (one of them actually won WTS lol).
And as you said it yourself, you are not so great hence why you are probably facing pugs with low mmr that can’t probably interrupt a single heal and mostlikely don’t have a team with bit of brain that support them.
I run 1 condi cleanse on my thief (shs) and i survive fights even vs condi builds because i know how to avoid certain spells and because i have teammates that can cleanse condis when i ask them. I doubt same could apply to those 9 mes. Doesn’t change the fact that mes in current state just has too much of CC/survival in dmg in 1 build and almost simultaneosly. Something needs to be toned down.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Curunen.8729:

DaShi.1368:

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

I know right.

Sword mainhand is already a shadow of its former self – I can’t believe complaints about blurred frenzy now…

Seems like people are using the excuse of a FEW mesmer trait issues post-patch, as well as game-wide damage issues (ie, the need to shave amulets and rebalance stats) that affect all classes, to unleash all their pent up hatred of mesmers over the last few years.

I bet there will be nonsensical complaints about iMage giving too much fury and Mirror Images giving too many clones, or something equally ridiculous next.

I know – how about signet of illusions recharging shatters! Oh wow, that’s broken – they can instantly burst after using that signet – nerf please! :o

I fully agree some mesmer specific trait combinations need to be looked at and dealt with (Confounding Suggestions, Blinding Dissipation, PU, free 15% phant damage…), but everything else existed pre-patch and is quite honestly a L2P issue.

I agree with everything but the free phant damage. I like to think of it as a trade off for how squishy the are against aoe.
However I did see someone complain about iWarlock doing too much damage against an opponent with 25 stacks of vuln and other condi’s lol.

But on the whole except for CS and PU, maybe blinding I don’t play with it much so I can’t say, everything else is good trait synergy and a l2p issue. People want to run zerker gear and stand still for full bursts(in my experience) and complain about being “1 shot”.
Sigh

Yet Mesmers are running full zerk himself too, but with 0 risk compare to other zerks,
able to easily stun-lock + one shot anyone while unable to be one-shot back because of all the invulnerable, evade, blink, and stealth. (Oh, before you said Mesmer already had these before, no, they don’t have IP baseline so they can’t have free on demand invulnerable, they don’t have such lengthy stealth, they don’t have free 1200 range blink that’re most likely -cd and reflect projectile, they don’t have on demand instant blind with no ICD)

Hyperbole is real.

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Curunen.8729:

DaShi.1368:

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

I know right.

Sword mainhand is already a shadow of its former self – I can’t believe complaints about blurred frenzy now…

Seems like people are using the excuse of a FEW mesmer trait issues post-patch, as well as game-wide damage issues (ie, the need to shave amulets and rebalance stats) that affect all classes, to unleash all their pent up hatred of mesmers over the last few years.

I bet there will be nonsensical complaints about iMage giving too much fury and Mirror Images giving too many clones, or something equally ridiculous next.

I know – how about signet of illusions recharging shatters! Oh wow, that’s broken – they can instantly burst after using that signet – nerf please! :o

I fully agree some mesmer specific trait combinations need to be looked at and dealt with (Confounding Suggestions, Blinding Dissipation, PU, free 15% phant damage…), but everything else existed pre-patch and is quite honestly a L2P issue.

I agree with everything but the free phant damage. I like to think of it as a trade off for how squishy the are against aoe.
However I did see someone complain about iWarlock doing too much damage against an opponent with 25 stacks of vuln and other condi’s lol.

But on the whole except for CS and PU, maybe blinding I don’t play with it much so I can’t say, everything else is good trait synergy and a l2p issue. People want to run zerker gear and stand still for full bursts(in my experience) and complain about being “1 shot”.
Sigh

Yet Mesmers are running full zerk himself too, but with 0 risk compare to other zerks,
able to easily stun-lock + one shot anyone while unable to be one-shot back because of all the invulnerable, evade, blink, and stealth. (Oh, before you said Mesmer already had these before, no, they don’t have IP baseline so they can’t have free on demand invulnerable, they don’t have such lengthy stealth, they don’t have free 1200 range blind that’re most likely -cd and reflect projectile, they don’t have on demand instant blind with no ICD)

Hyperbole is real.

Perfect example of the hyperbole that is making it difficult to evaluate whether the mesmer is truly OP. But I guess we could be talking about rangers following a knock-down/immobize with 20K+ rapid fires from over 1500 range and from stealth.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

one mesmer was Pu the other was lockdown…so you dont read? I’m pretty sure i made that clear.

again its not Op its just something i think is bad for the class. I don’t want mesmer to be nerfed into the ground which is why im specifically talking about certain traits and how they give the appearance that mesmer is OP. CS PU and Blind are all very powerful and while I hope they stay in the game I think they should be toned down a bit. If these three were to be balanced out, not to be made obsolete but to make it so that mesmer’s actually have to risk something in order to land a burst I think complaints of Op’ness would go away for the most part. Pre patch mesmer was not great, it needed buffs for sure, but a good thing about the class was that being bad at it had real consequences if you were playing shatter. Now you can use Pu or Cs and blind and manage to stay alive even when you are playing poorly. Personally i don’t mind PU because I just think of it like fighting a thief, and thank god not many in pvp run condi pu, and CS is ok without mantra, with mantra its just annoying and I hate how spammy it makes mesmers. The one i really think needs to be toned down is the blind because it makes everything easy mode especially when paired with PU.

I don’t care too much about them nerfing or not nerfing mesmer it can stay the same i won’t pvp much anyways, but i fear that Anet will end up nerfing mesmer burst which they should not do at all.

Honestly, complaining about how mesmer has a counter to every mechanic in the game haven´t really understood what mesmer is all about. Mesmer (since GW1 days) always was about counterplay. If you know beforehand what your opponent is running you, as mesmer, have all the tools to design a build that perfectly counters the opponents. The clue is you can´t have everything at once. If you just list all the options a mesmer has it sounds broken, and it should.
What makes mesmer seem broken right now is the new trait system, allowing them to have a lot more traits at the same time, leading to a greater coverage of builds you can counter.

TL:DR The new trait system gives more options. What balances the mesmers “toolbox” is the limitation in choices while designing a build. The tools are all fine, there just needs to be some kind of limitation to what a mesmer can slap into his build.

DaShi.1368:

jportell.2197:

Wow so clearly there are people here that are new or relatively new.

Blurred frenzy was nerfed hard in 2013 May:
Blurred Frenzy CD increased by 20%
This skill now is an evade instead of an invulnerability.

So in a time when mesmers were hardly considered for teams ever, and halting strike did jack all for damage mesmer blurred frenzy was double nerfed.

Oh also! This was a time when Anet was considering putting an internal cooldown on deceptive evasion.

So maybe we should look at past nerfs before crying for more? Just maybe. If blurred frenzy is touched again mesmers will have no decent mainhand.

I’m convinced there are just some players, who no matter how hard mesmers are nerfed, will never be able to get past the mechanic and will struggle against mesmers.

I noticed this 2 years ago and created a nerf list that won’t make mesmers beatable for them, but will at least give them a chance. What’s interesting is how many of the skills mentioned were nerfed and people are still having a really hard time with mesmers.

Suggested changes to balance the Mesmer:
1. Damaging the clones (including shattering) hurts the mesmer.
2. Portal has the same range as blink and also can’t cross walls or gaps like blink.
3. Time warp requires the mesmer to enter an inactive meditation state for the duration. Recharge increased by 30 seconds and duration reduced by 5 seconds.
4. Moa morph affects both the target and the mesmer.
5. Blurred frenzy applies 20 seconds of bleeding on the mesmer. Damage reduced 30%. Recharging increased by 20 seconds.
6. Temporal Curtain pull range is reduced to 300. Pull cannot pull people off ledges.
7. Target stands in iWarden for more than 1 second, that target is now healed instead of damaged.
8. Magic bullet can now hit allies.
9. Confusion now only works for a target’s #5 skill.
10. Mesmer armor is now capped at 1000; health at 15000.
11. Mesmers must spend boons in order to complete shatters.
12. Mesmers suffer from poison while invisible and are still targetable.
13. Clones no longer have the name of the mesmer. Instead, they say clone. In addition, they are shaded a deep purple.
14. Mesmers now take twice as much damage from warriors.
15. Mesmers cannot damage guardians.
16. In accordance with its name, null field now does nothing.
17. Chaos storm has equal chance of applying boons and conditions to both allies and enemies.
18. Chaos armor has chance of applying boons to enemies that hit the mesmer and conditions on the mesmer when hit.
19. Swap following illusionary leap will only work 50% of the time.
20. Illusionary wave also pushes the mesmer back acting as a knockdown.
Maybe now people will be able to have a chance against mesmers.

I leap already fails 50% of the time… but I see the complaint more as a l2p issue I mean yes stun on daze on 5 sec icd is to much…. maybe a 10 sec icd would work. Mesmer burst is dodgable I’d you know what to look for. Also Pu should be reduced to a 50% increase instead of 100%. Mantra Mesmer has Condi clear.. but PU still lacks Condi clear…. As soon as Mesmer is out of cds its pretty much food. Mesmer can hit very hard and 1 shot squishier classes. But then again if you can’t dodge properly you’ll never kill a mesmer. It’s hard hitting skills have quite big tells.

~ Throwny [yummy]

jportell.2197:

Wow so clearly there are people here that are new or relatively new.

Blurred frenzy was nerfed hard in 2013 May:
Blurred Frenzy CD increased by 20%
This skill now is an evade instead of an invulnerability.

So in a time when mesmers were hardly considered for teams ever, and halting strike did jack all for damage mesmer blurred frenzy was double nerfed.

Oh also! This was a time when Anet was considering putting an internal cooldown on deceptive evasion.

So maybe we should look at past nerfs before crying for more? Just maybe. If blurred frenzy is touched again mesmers will have no decent mainhand.

Stop making so,like mesmers were the only ones,who got nerfed at something. And while I don’t play GW 24/7,every day of every week of past 3 years(I stopped,because game got boring and nothing new came from GW2…came back around that test for stronghold and now specializations patch)
I never cried about putting deceptive evasion on icd, I always thought something like that,which is vital for mesmers should be baseline,but you got IP instead,which is also great. They should make stuff(not all,but certain stuff,that is vital to that class) for other classes also baseline,so you get more build diversity.

Of course you don’t want BF to be touched,because then you’d actually have to use other cd’s. No more would you be able to go in to enemy in their face and try your combo burst. Or if someone would jump you,you just hit that number 2 and you’re good,because people would waste their burst.
Have it on 5s cd for all I care,up it’s dmg 3 times,but take away distortion effect it gives.

blind on shatter is fine. A lot of builds are relatively safe to burst with and until now, especially for a class that gives up its defenses when bursting should also. Please keep in mind the burst is still less safe and not instant or prolonged as mediguard, as well it can be played around via LoS and kiteing. Blinding dissipation going through evades might need to be looked at but ineptitude’s blind does not. Or atleast should not trigger the cooldown.

A mesmer not running staff/offhand sword/or MoD has 1 daze on a long cooldown. If you are fighting interupt chaos storm will hurt regardless, and offhand sword is pretty balanced… If you see your opponent has MoD actively play around it please, it’s not hard to read your opponent. If a cooldown is to be added it should be 9 seconds to match the c/d of offhand traited sword.

PU I admit is super cheese but keep in mind Mesmers are now doing what thief has done since day 1 and is no different tactic wise when nade engie does it. Mesmers have had to learn to wait and anticipate burst that would shut them down harder than any PU mesmer walking up hoping to get the extra bounce on GS2 befor shattering. But if Mesmers after all this time have learned to anticipate thief burst which you cannot LoS you people need to learn to anticipate PU burst.

Is Anet ever going to do something about the mesmers destroying everyone? It’s getting really annoying to be constantly interrupted and then bursted in 1 second.

The real annoying thing is that players who were garbage on the mesmer before the patch, suddenly seem good after it

Slapinator.4196:

Also they can stun you forever. I was against a mesmer and whenever i ccd im i got stuned, i wanted to heal i got stuned i wanted to use a skill i got stuned. When the mesmer runs out of stuns he goes invisible channels his mantra and there we go again stun.

imo remove stun on mesmer…why should a class that can teleport stealth have millions of clones has one of the if not the best burst (ranged aoe) and can invuln spam defensively or offensively, spam trillion condis even on power spec be able to stun as well…..especially the passive stun when you finally find a way to fight back….mesmer needs stupendously hardcore nerfs on quite a few aspects…starting with the stuns and burst dmge (50% no joke)

especially the passive stun when you finally find a way to fight back

Really? That trait is on a 60s cd, Tempest Defense is 25s and – in melee range – does exactly the same, AoE, while also providing an additional damage boost.

If anything, Mirror of Anguish needs a buff.

Also, your post is hugely exaggerating and smelling of l2p.

Ofc they are brokenly op. The damage is insane. And the time when they are not invuln, dodging, stealth or have a port available is very low. So their survivability is better than a bunker guardian right now.

The class is so strong that there is zero chance of it being bought back into line for at least 18 months with the speed anet balance at, and the fact they often try to do nerfs which actually turn out to be buffs.

It is the same with ele and has been the same with thief for 3 years now. Conceptually op classes which are just going to be op for 18 months (18 more months). Either get used to it or quit. Cos its happening

Tired of getting insta stunned from 1200 range and having the mesmer believe they’re blessed with innate gaming skill far greater than Jesus himself

Every mesmer I kill 1v1 will get the maximum kitten talk due to how bad the player actually is to die on it.