Guild Wars 2

Mesmer is not broken. If it was not where it is now, it would not be even viable. I’m playing my mesmer main everyday. & more & more ppl are finding the right builds to counter everybody. Espacially the mesmer. The mesmer is in a right place for once. It does not need nerfing. ppl just need to skill play & build good builds. I just played a match vs a warrior that went holly cow ur dead in 2 seconds. & my burst could not do anything. that just shows that willing players are finding ways & good ones finnaly to skill play & counter classes. Stop the Crying!

Gabriell.4856:

I’m not jportell but I agree.

Lower the CD to 5seconds, remove the distortion, and increase the damage by 4 times.

Done deal.

20K BF…yummy.

Yeah,you keep thinking you’ll get free 20k BF without distortion effect it gives. People will interupt you, kill you from far,if they have ranged weapon and so on.
And if you were talking about me,that I don’t know difference between invul and evade…I know them. Saying,that they “nerfed” it from invul to evade…it’s stil the same kitten. Mesmers can’t be hurt ,while mesmer performs BF. But you go ahed and keep think,that you’ll get that free 20k BF without distortion effect(this is from weapons discription) it creates.

Mesmer needs some shavings, and there are tons of threads discussing the topic in a constructive manner.

This thread, however…

Vague Memory.2817:

This thread is so full of half-truths, disinformation and misinformation on what mes can and can’t do damage wise. I hope that the Devs ignore it and are only looking at live PvP combat and kitten their full combat logs for all classes to reveal what is out of balance. People talking about 20K insta death mesmers are generally referring to that dumb youtube video posted where a Guard is deliberately standing still and the Mes attempts many times to pull off a difficult hard hitting combo that downed the guard.

Youtube are strewn with different class combos which can quickly down a heavy practice golem after patch (this is effectively what those guys were doing). Ironically a Guard can also perform insta kill combos which I’ve experienced a few times first hand. I think some of the thread is based on genuine concern, but a lot of it reads like I don’t like fighting Mes so nerf them into the ground.

Hopefully the devs have enough intelligence to base any rebalancing around facts they determine from in-game, rather than some person who was half afk or didn’t realise he/she had a whole bunch of vuln stacks on them before getting insta downed. I play a lot of PvP and I have only been insta downed from full health (21.5K) in one match repeatedly since patch, and that was by a Guard, not a Mes.

Amen.
Also:

Guard is not the only one to be able to do so. Thief, Warrior, necro & the rest have an insta burst also. & like you, i only hear cry cry sob sob..mesmer mesmer.. not fair!. oh plzzzz.

Vague Memory.2817:

This thread is so full of half-truths, disinformation and misinformation on what mes can and can’t do damage wise. I hope that the Devs ignore it and are only looking at live PvP combat and kitten their full combat logs for all classes to reveal what is out of balance. People talking about 20K insta death mesmers are generally referring to that dumb youtube video posted where a Guard is deliberately standing still and the Mes attempts many times to pull off a difficult hard hitting combo that downed the guard.

Youtube are strewn with different class combos which can quickly down a heavy practice golem after patch (this is effectively what those guys were doing). Ironically a Guard can also perform insta kill combos which I’ve experienced a few times first hand. I think some of the thread is based on genuine concern, but a lot of it reads like I don’t like fighting Mes so nerf them into the ground.

Hopefully the devs have enough intelligence to base any rebalancing around facts they determine from in-game, rather than some person who was half afk or didn’t realise he/she had a whole bunch of vuln stacks on them before getting insta downed. I play a lot of PvP and I have only been insta downed from full health (21.5K) in one match repeatedly since patch, and that was by a Guard, not a Mes.

+1

I faced this morning two mesmers in WvW with shatter lockdown builds, and I could survive 6 of their intents of bursting me.
If you know how to deal with bursts with your profession, mesmers are not such more difficult to deal with.

Empty Sky.6354:

Laraley.7695:

Can you tell me how evade and invulnerability are not effectively the same thing in pvp? You do not take damage from any skills, no new conditions can be applied on you and you also cannot be cced. The only thing that’s different is the fact Blurred frenzy won’t save you from taking damage from retaliation, which is only an issue if you fight guardians/engis and do not know how to position yourself.

Also look at all other skills that provide evade, the time frame of the evade is usually 1/2 to 1 sec, for some reason Blurred frenzy provide 2 and 1/2 sec of evade on 12 second cooldown. On top of that mesmers have distortion by default, I think every profession would love that, having an invulnerability for free.

Mesmers are clearly over the top, not all nerf suggestions are justified, but stop acting like they killed the class with this change.

Exactly ! They get 2 and 1/2 second of invuln/ evade every 12 seconds for pressing number 2. Not even Distortion gives that every time,if they don’t have all clones up. So with Blurred Frenzy they can save Distortion and other important stuff,they can use Daze Mantra’s as offensive thing,giving them even more dps. Note,how jportell didn’t reply to my post,when I said, BF can have 5s cd, increase it’s dmg ,just take away distortion effect it gives.
And to jportell…mesmers came back,because of Helseth. People started using sword main hand,because he started using it. Basically anything he does and uses with memser, wannabes and copycasts will use that.

I play mainly ele and I don’t kitten about Ride The Lightning and nerfs it got. 40 seconds seems reasonable cd,it’s cut in half,if you hit enemy. If you use it for escape,then chances are,you are not gonna go back in fight right after you used it. On top of it,you’ll go to other attuments,etc. so by the time RTL comes off of cd,you should be fine.

You do realise mainhand sword is taken pretty much exclusively for the evade, somewhat for the (buggy) in combat mobility via ileap/swap and a little for the melee clones with boon strip? In other words it is taken as a utility weapon, not a damage weapon.

The auto does little damage and requires a (squishy) mesmer to be in melee range, and so does BF if you want to land damage – what pathetikittentle damage it does, also allowing you to be hit by things like retaliation or say Static Field…

If you get caught by ileap/swap into BF, then that’s the enemy’s fault – it is by far the easiest combo to dodge/avoid/block or just kill the clone rendering swap useless.

The vast majority of BF use is defensive. For everything else, Greatsword, Staff and Scepter are far better now.

If you seriously have difficulty killing a mesmer who is using mainhand sword then I don’t know what to say – it’s extremely easy/predictable to prepare your damage, wait for the evade frames to end on an attack that ROOTS the mesmer (slap down some aoes under them) and unload as soon as the mesmer is “exposed” again. Mainhand sword is hands down our weakest mainhand weapon, especially with the buffs scepter has got.

As a side note what about the ridiculous evades on ranger Sword/Dagger? should we nerf those skills because “evades are overpowered”?

And seriously – many, many players were using mainhand sword (greatsword + sword/torch) for a long time while “top players” were on the double ranged greatsword+staff power shatter bandwagon. I have a lot of respect for Helseth, but saying people started using sword because of him is not accurate and disrespectful to most of the ingame mesmer community.

Removing evade from blurred frenzy will utterly destroy mainhand sword and I promise you nobody will ever use it again over other weapon. Then we will have 5 offhands (including shield) with 1 useful mainhand (scepter) and I also promise you the entire mesmer community will kick up the biggest ****storm in the history of mesmer nerfs, even more than the “accidental” temporary nerf to Distortion when they changed it from an invuln to an evade.

“Last time to nail down your strategy!” …looks at other team….see’s mesmer….changes utilities….clicks ready

Mesmers have been in a bad spot for a loooooong time (go back and watch some of the past gw2 pvp tournaments, i bet mesmer will be hard to find). They’ve just now finally gotten buffed to be more in line with other professions and it’s just people aren’t use to it. I’d suggest dueling a mesmer a bunch to learn their tells, rotations, etc.

Look, when I push one of my 10 kill mesmer buttons, I kitten well expect a mesmer to be killed.

Ye, learn to play. CC in steath then burst down in 1-2s. How did you counter that ? Predict ? LMAO. And i’m talking about tanky build with 3k+ armor, not some zerkly paper.
So here i am, a ranger willing to learn to counter mesmer. Teach me plz, just like we teach you how to deal with pewpew ranger., all the l2p guys above ?

Yeah, and their knock backs from stealth are too much. Or bursting you from across the map. How can your predict that?

Curunen.8729:

You do realise mainhand sword is taken pretty much exclusively for the evade, somewhat for the (buggy) in combat mobility via ileap/swap and a little for the melee clones with boon strip? In other words it is taken as a utility weapon, not a damage weapon.

The auto does little damage and requires a (squishy) mesmer to be in melee range, and so does BF if you want to land damage – what pathetikittentle damage it does, also allowing you to be hit by things like retaliation or say Static Field…

If you get caught by ileap/swap into BF, then that’s the enemy’s fault – it is by far the easiest combo to dodge/avoid/block or just kill the clone rendering swap useless.

The vast majority of BF use is defensive. For everything else, Greatsword, Staff and Scepter are far better now.

If you seriously have difficulty killing a mesmer who is using mainhand sword then I don’t know what to say – it’s extremely easy/predictable to prepare your damage, wait for the evade frames to end on an attack that ROOTS the mesmer (slap down some aoes under them) and unload as soon as the mesmer is “exposed” again. Mainhand sword is hands down our weakest mainhand weapon, especially with the buffs scepter has got.

As a side note what about the ridiculous evades on ranger Sword/Dagger? should we nerf those skills because “evades are overpowered”?

And seriously – many, many players were using mainhand sword (greatsword + sword/torch) for a long time while “top players” were on the double ranged greatsword+staff power shatter bandwagon. I have a lot of respect for Helseth, but saying people started using sword because of him is not accurate and disrespectful to most of the ingame mesmer community.

Removing evade from blurred frenzy will utterly destroy mainhand sword and I promise you nobody will ever use it again over other weapon. Then we will have 5 offhands (including shield) with 1 useful mainhand (scepter) and I also promise you the entire mesmer community will kick up the biggest ****storm in the history of mesmer nerfs, even more than the “accidental” temporary nerf to Distortion when they changed it from an invuln to an evade.

Lol at this post…what have I been saying whole time? I know,what weapons from mesmers do,I ain’t playing GW2 for first time. And it’s not like mesmer is only using main hand sword only,so that question of your,if I have problem vs mainhand sword mesmers is another bs. Your post is just so full of it.
Static Field is too big,people can evade inside that and so on. Rangers are one of easiest targets to take down in team play,that’s why you only see them in soloq.

Oh please, Helseth tought people,how to play mesmer (and much more…rotations,etc.). If he played GS/staff , people played that combo. If he plays gs/s-t,people start playing that. People before said portal is kitten, Helseth played portal and now every mesmer plays portal. Again,anything he plays,traits and does,copycats and wannabe are gonna do same.

Empty Sky.6354:

Curunen.8729:

You do realise mainhand sword is taken pretty much exclusively for the evade, somewhat for the (buggy) in combat mobility via ileap/swap and a little for the melee clones with boon strip? In other words it is taken as a utility weapon, not a damage weapon.

The auto does little damage and requires a (squishy) mesmer to be in melee range, and so does BF if you want to land damage – what pathetikittentle damage it does, also allowing you to be hit by things like retaliation or say Static Field…

If you get caught by ileap/swap into BF, then that’s the enemy’s fault – it is by far the easiest combo to dodge/avoid/block or just kill the clone rendering swap useless.

The vast majority of BF use is defensive. For everything else, Greatsword, Staff and Scepter are far better now.

If you seriously have difficulty killing a mesmer who is using mainhand sword then I don’t know what to say – it’s extremely easy/predictable to prepare your damage, wait for the evade frames to end on an attack that ROOTS the mesmer (slap down some aoes under them) and unload as soon as the mesmer is “exposed” again. Mainhand sword is hands down our weakest mainhand weapon, especially with the buffs scepter has got.

As a side note what about the ridiculous evades on ranger Sword/Dagger? should we nerf those skills because “evades are overpowered”?

And seriously – many, many players were using mainhand sword (greatsword + sword/torch) for a long time while “top players” were on the double ranged greatsword+staff power shatter bandwagon. I have a lot of respect for Helseth, but saying people started using sword because of him is not accurate and disrespectful to most of the ingame mesmer community.

Removing evade from blurred frenzy will utterly destroy mainhand sword and I promise you nobody will ever use it again over other weapon. Then we will have 5 offhands (including shield) with 1 useful mainhand (scepter) and I also promise you the entire mesmer community will kick up the biggest ****storm in the history of mesmer nerfs, even more than the “accidental” temporary nerf to Distortion when they changed it from an invuln to an evade.

Lol at this post…what have I been saying whole time? I know,what weapons from mesmers do,I ain’t playing GW2 for first time. And it’s not like mesmer is only using main hand sword only,so that question of your,if I have problem vs mainhand sword mesmers is another bs. Your post is just so full of it.
Static Field is too big,people can evade inside that and so on. Rangers are one of easiest targets to take down in team play,that’s why you only see them in soloq.

Oh please, Helseth tought people,how to play mesmer (and much more…rotations,etc.). If he played GS/staff , people played that combo. If he plays gs/s-t,people start playing that. People before said portal is kitten, Helseth played portal and now every mesmer plays portal. Again,anything he plays,traits and does,copycats and wannabe are gonna do same.

I’m only going to respond to this to say I can’t be bothered to argue, especially with the personal attacks. I’ll keep it brief:

If you want to go that far, I will also respond in kind – your complaints about blurred frenzy and mesmer in general are “full of it” and utterly ridiculous.

If you have no problem fighting against mesmers using mainhand sword, then I don’t see your complaint for a nerf.

Lol at Helseth taught people how to play mesmer… you realise how many players there are in this game, and the number of “no names” who go about their business whether in wvw or pvp, some of whom happen to be extremely good whether mechanically, situational awareness/1vX ability or otherwise. Some players copycat, but many stick to their own game.

Empty Sky.6354:

Curunen.8729:

You do realise mainhand sword is taken pretty much exclusively for the evade, somewhat for the (buggy) in combat mobility via ileap/swap and a little for the melee clones with boon strip? In other words it is taken as a utility weapon, not a damage weapon.

The auto does little damage and requires a (squishy) mesmer to be in melee range, and so does BF if you want to land damage – what pathetikittentle damage it does, also allowing you to be hit by things like retaliation or say Static Field…

If you get caught by ileap/swap into BF, then that’s the enemy’s fault – it is by far the easiest combo to dodge/avoid/block or just kill the clone rendering swap useless.

The vast majority of BF use is defensive. For everything else, Greatsword, Staff and Scepter are far better now.

If you seriously have difficulty killing a mesmer who is using mainhand sword then I don’t know what to say – it’s extremely easy/predictable to prepare your damage, wait for the evade frames to end on an attack that ROOTS the mesmer (slap down some aoes under them) and unload as soon as the mesmer is “exposed” again. Mainhand sword is hands down our weakest mainhand weapon, especially with the buffs scepter has got.

As a side note what about the ridiculous evades on ranger Sword/Dagger? should we nerf those skills because “evades are overpowered”?

And seriously – many, many players were using mainhand sword (greatsword + sword/torch) for a long time while “top players” were on the double ranged greatsword+staff power shatter bandwagon. I have a lot of respect for Helseth, but saying people started using sword because of him is not accurate and disrespectful to most of the ingame mesmer community.

Removing evade from blurred frenzy will utterly destroy mainhand sword and I promise you nobody will ever use it again over other weapon. Then we will have 5 offhands (including shield) with 1 useful mainhand (scepter) and I also promise you the entire mesmer community will kick up the biggest ****storm in the history of mesmer nerfs, even more than the “accidental” temporary nerf to Distortion when they changed it from an invuln to an evade.

Lol at this post…what have I been saying whole time? I know,what weapons from mesmers do,I ain’t playing GW2 for first time. And it’s not like mesmer is only using main hand sword only,so that question of your,if I have problem vs mainhand sword mesmers is another bs. Your post is just so full of it.
Static Field is too big,people can evade inside that and so on. Rangers are one of easiest targets to take down in team play,that’s why you only see them in soloq.

Oh please, Helseth tought people,how to play mesmer (and much more…rotations,etc.). If he played GS/staff , people played that combo. If he plays gs/s-t,people start playing that. People before said portal is kitten, Helseth played portal and now every mesmer plays portal. Again,anything he plays,traits and does,copycats and wannabe are gonna do same.

Helseth started playing S/T because the blast radius on torch 4 became bigger and you could FINALLY do something else whlie stealthed with torch 4. Also the phantasm on the torch is one of the shortest casting phantasms along with staff and GS. The other three are a whopping 1.5 s cast time making it really hard to keep your damage up with them. Not to mention people picked sword back up when illusionary leap was finally fixed to just spawn the clone next to the target unlike you know run the opposite direction. I have had that happen to me before. My target was up the slope I hit illusionary leap, my clone went DOWN the slope.

But yeah mes is easy whatever.

People didn’t play s/t because “that’s what helseth played” they did it because it became the best option to still keep a barely viable class somewhat viable.

Helseth didn’t “teach” people how to play mesmer the people that were really dedicated to the class have figured it out on their own. It is hands down the most intricate class in gw2.

Zelulose.8695:

Lol yes mesmer is op but they will always be op so my response would be keep crying. There is nothing you will ever be able do about them. As arrogant as this sounds it is true.

…and that’s why mesmer had been not viable for almost 1 year i guess…

/logic

OK so to say that mesmer has been unviable prior to the changes the way necros or rangers have been unviable is plain wrong.

Here is a simple question: if mesmer has so much counterplay, then what build on what profession is currently actually good against/superior to a mesmer? Certainly not a power build since mesmers right now essentially counter any of those. Against most bunkerish builds mesmers will win now with the worst thing possible is that they might have to disengage. Finally, condi builds are countered by going into inspiration.

Tissitra.4153:

OK so to say that mesmer has been unviable prior to the changes the way necros or rangers have been unviable is plain wrong.

Here is a simple question: if mesmer has so much counterplay, then what build on what profession is currently actually good against/superior to a mesmer? Certainly not a power build since mesmers right now essentially counter any of those. Against most bunkerish builds mesmers will win now with the worst thing possible is that they might have to disengage. Finally, condi builds are countered by going into inspiration.

You can’t just ask for what specific class builds are good vs mesmer as a whole. Mesmer has different builds too. They aren’t all running some power shatter reflect daze pu perma stealth condi torrment heal cleanse interrupt perplex build.

UrMom.4205:

Tissitra.4153:

OK so to say that mesmer has been unviable prior to the changes the way necros or rangers have been unviable is plain wrong.

Here is a simple question: if mesmer has so much counterplay, then what build on what profession is currently actually good against/superior to a mesmer? Certainly not a power build since mesmers right now essentially counter any of those. Against most bunkerish builds mesmers will win now with the worst thing possible is that they might have to disengage. Finally, condi builds are countered by going into inspiration.

You can’t just ask for what specific class builds are good vs mesmer as a whole. Mesmer has different builds too. They aren’t all running some power shatter reflect daze pu perma stealth condi torrment heal cleanse interrupt perplex build.

Well I obvously mean the prevalent power builds – say mantra shatter.

It’s been said before but I’m saying it again in hopes maybe SOMEONE will think about this who is raging about OP mesmers; If mesmers get everything with no downside and are entirely OP, why aren’t more of them showing up in sPVP tournies? Why isn’t it nothing BUT mesmers?

Cause Helseth didn’t show em how to play yet?

Kappa.

Tissitra.4153:

UrMom.4205:

Tissitra.4153:

OK so to say that mesmer has been unviable prior to the changes the way necros or rangers have been unviable is plain wrong.

Here is a simple question: if mesmer has so much counterplay, then what build on what profession is currently actually good against/superior to a mesmer? Certainly not a power build since mesmers right now essentially counter any of those. Against most bunkerish builds mesmers will win now with the worst thing possible is that they might have to disengage. Finally, condi builds are countered by going into inspiration.

You can’t just ask for what specific class builds are good vs mesmer as a whole. Mesmer has different builds too. They aren’t all running some power shatter reflect daze pu perma stealth condi torrment heal cleanse interrupt perplex build.

Well I obvously mean the prevalent power builds – say mantra shatter.

I remember Frae from oRNG used a burn guard in the last weekly final or something. They caught a nice death of helseth with a 2k burn tick killing him. Don’t think he was running inspiration though.

I’d say conditions work very well at the moment against mesmers, inspiration will give the mesmer the upper hand again if they’ve gone for the cleanse on shatter, cleanse on heal combo. However menders purity is bugged with the last charge of the healing mantra and it has a 1s ICD to it.

Make sure you don’t let them free cast from the sides in team fights, cleave out any rogue phantasms or clones and bring the fight to them. Sick the thief on them if there’s one around, it’s not as easy a win as pre patch but it’s still in the thiefs favour and the constant harassment will prevent them helping their team.

Loxsus.3841:

It’s been said before but I’m saying it again in hopes maybe SOMEONE will think about this who is raging about OP mesmers; If mesmers get everything with no downside and are entirely OP, why aren’t more of them showing up in sPVP tournies? Why isn’t it nothing BUT mesmers?

You can’t HANDLE the truth!

…Actually its because Mesmer roles as a whole in SPvP or should I say CONQUEST, are done better by other professions. Now if clones could contest but not capture objectives, that would be a different story, but thieves have more tools out of stealth to handle being pressured quite a bit more than mesmers, like evades and better blind application.

It’s that simple, it’s not that mesmers are bad, they are close to or the best 1v1ers when they are built and played right…It’s just that while they are winning the fight, they are losing the match.

1.

Tissitra.4153:

OK so to say that mesmer has been unviable prior to the changes the way necros or rangers have been unviable is plain wrong.

I don’t understand why you have this perception. Without going through an entire history lesson, mes was only considered king very early in the game, around the same time 100B warriors were relevant enough for people to cry and call them OP.

Pre patch mes had only one build that was considered viable and being countered by thieves, sustain BM rangers (in duel cuz they are easy to push off point. and they were never meta), medigaurds(unless staff), condis, even fresh air ele was able to burst faster and more consistently(tho yes less escape), and every bruiser pushing it off point… Doesn’t get you very high in the representation or tier list, other than from inept players who couldn’t even doge a shatter. That was just for 1v1s. Not to say you couldn’t win these fights some of them actually mes would have consistently won… But unfortunately you don’t win games jerking around with the Cele ele forcing him off his healing c/ds till he makes a mistake… But I mean… Even Supcutie went to thief :/ Cuz outside of portal why bother with a mes?

At least Necro had it’s place with the condi cleave meta and when dumb-fire was first introduced, yes it could get kited and rekt but at least it held a point on it’s own, plus was very good in team fights forcing teams to AoE clense.

Outside of regen BM rangers being an old counter in duels, They had their time when zoo was a stupid thing, and we literally took a hambow to it. Then in the more recent days there was a lot of crying about zerk ranger, which just goes to show ppl will cry about anything because lol. LoS exists. And people didn’t think to not let them free cast before coming to the forums.

Tissitra.4153:

Here is a simple question: if mesmer has so much counterplay, then what build on what profession is currently actually good against/superior to a mesmer? Certainly not a power build since mesmers right now essentially counter any of those. Against most bunkerish builds mesmers will win now with the worst thing possible is that they might have to disengage. Finally, condi builds are countered by going into inspiration.

I’m not sure if you are asking meta wise and viability vs others, or if you mean directly stronger and can counter it.

Meta wise I still believe we will find more builds rotating, the game is also due for bug fixes.

That being said 1v1 very strong builds I have used, and have been used against me are Medigaurds still, the only difference now is that mes can escape easier, plus is able to joust around c/ds better than prepatch. Thief I feel is pretty evenly matched but both players need to bait and pressure at the right times, I still favor thief in this matchup only because initiative > mes c/ds. Regen rangers are a lot harder to push off point and will slowly kill a mes while contesting. Condis still work well… well maybe not necro unless on a flat with nothing to LoS with, Cele ele can still stall it out and win if you out play the mes well, just it’s a bit easier to shut down so if you mess up = less free recovery.

And that’s just off the top of my head I’m sure there will be more as the meta develops, I consider this actually to be more fair now since Mes and it’s opponents now has a relatively even chance. Both can still lose if completely played around or mistakes are made…

2.

Which brings me to a point about the burst of shatter builds specifically. which I believe (at least for now) in the conquest meta is still the most viable spec tho interrupt might become significantly dominant however I feel it’s still only REALLY GOOD 1v1 which is not the game type nor is the game balanced around it. (tho I wish it could be fair for everyone regardless of spec :/ but me and my socialist hopes.)

Without PU (visible): Shatter is about as obvious as a 100b and you need to force out a lot of your opponents options to get a clean hit. either A. They set up on you. and you actively avoid the shatter. Or B you KNOW their mirrorblade MW is coming and you either anticipate and doge the moment they lift the sword. or if at a distance you gauge weather or not they have blink on C/D and react accordingly, IF THEY BLINK TO YOU!… and they are not PU and just whiffed because you had the game sense to know better. They just blew their only real escape, have fun!

But PU(invisible): here is where it is debatable and I can agree and see the level of frustration and unfairness that comes with PU… It’s like fighting a thief… :/

Well sorta… The most efficient way for a shatter build to burst without using a bunch of c/ds is the aforementioned Mirrorblade + MW. This uses the least c/ds and will net a large amount of damage relatively fast… (I sill prefer phoenix on ele but that is just me… apparently :x). You have to fight this like back stab, You HAVE to anticipate, or watch for the first bounce. Yes this puts everything in the mesmers hands of what, when, and how to do it. With PU this is rather potent.

But after so long of mes being kept down by thief I have very little sympathy for this since every mesmer ever had to learn how to anticipate and play around the burst from the shadows. Oh sure everyone else did too, but the idea of retaliating after using your cooldowns to save yourself (and yes I am including spacing your cooldowns no one should ever pop them all at once thinking that’ll be effective) going offensive was not often a viable option since you need ammo and you don’t get yours back passively. Even if it was a decent option for one reason or another, it was likely thief would just escape get ini and strike again, because ofc they’d prefer to fight you on c/ds as opposed to you fight them without ini.

But unlike the old Mes vs thief match up every build has options against a mesmer who just whiffed. I do believe PU is cheese but because you can still play around it and come out on top my feels for it are the same as for any strong meta build that wasn’t counter by “just rotate around it!”.

Ultimately playing around a mesmer is not that bad, and it doesn’t hard counter very much so fair chance for all.

No TL;DR. But you can stop reading at the gap.

PS: Excuse grammar worse than usual on mobile.

I was just going to post about this…Mesmer is by far the most OP class. I can’t believe people even complain about rampage considering Mesmer can do thief melee burst at range and has more escape options.

Something needs to change. Thief is limited by its range/armor. Ele is limited by cast times. Warrior is limited by range. Mesmer is limited by what exactly? They can’t tank but in 1v1 they are by far the best. Stealth/doppelganger spam + ranged burst = balanced?

mesmers are broken op. Its because of this..

1. they have almost as much stealth as thieves
2. they have probably the same amount of invul as elemental and warrior and ranger(if you count sword 3 evade as a invul… pretty much the same thing.
3. have more interrupts than anyone in the game, combined with the longest stun(sort of) in the game(power block)
4. Blind just as much as theif, but only aoe blind
5. the most burst potential in the game, the cheesiest stealth burst ever.. 17k damage in one second
6. Good range, almost as good as power ranger

This is all from one build…..with standard stats in spvp. no WvW gear/food bullsj

this is why mesmers are broken op. They have too much damage for their ability to survive and disengage. They are like the old thief, but worse because its range.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Mantra_Shatter

I took my mes to spvp and copied the meta battle mantra shatter. Even though I have more experience portaling golems than actually fighting as a mesmer, after about 5 unranked i was getting the hang of it and destroying warriors and guardians with out much effort.

while I dont have much understanding of what the traits are doing I know that with this build the stun is both offense and defense at the same time.
getting attacked? stun! now my enemy is doing zero dps. put out some clones and hit one of them F keys and theyre almost dead. trying to heal? staff 5 on them and dead.

the big advantage with the mantras is Im healing/stunning/dmging while Im casting other stuff. it took me a few more games to figure out I could do clever things like f4 and channel mass invis to escape safely. then I could recharge my mantras and set up clones for another burst from stealth.

the only real pressure was teef steal/backstab/heartseekerspam mostly because being a total noob I didnt know how to react. against other classes I was able to even win a few 2v1s cause I was using decoy instead of portal. it wasnt even a real 2v1 in the sense that my target was locked down and trying to get away while some other enemy tried, unsuccessfully, to catch me.

so why qq about it just play mesmer and farm dem wins.

Synosius.9876:

I took my mes to spvp and copied the meta battle mantra shatter. Even though I have more experience portaling golems than actually fighting as a mesmer, after about 5 unranked i was getting the hang of it and destroying warriors and guardians with out much effort.

Unfortunately it’s considered anecdotal evidence. Example, I played my alt power ranger last week and managed to down thieves and mesmers in one rapid fire. Does that mean rangers is OP? Considering that’s 15k+ damage in a one skill. Clearly not, it’s just an isolated example where I managed to bait out the enemy’s dodges before bursts.

In reality, I got bursted down by the thieves just as often. In isolated cases, damage is always greater than they appear. Prepatch mesmers could also burst down 70% of enemy’s HP in a combo. Misinformation just skews things out of proportion.

Unfortunately we all know how easy it is to become dismissive when other ppl don’t agree with us.

I was standing in Sm watching the roamers and havoks, and zergs running about. There’s a WHOLE lot more Mesmer’s now. Especially in the small scale and roaming. It was literally a Mesmer fighting Mesmer, then fighting another Mesmer. I just shook my head at how OP they are. If they weren’t these folks would be running another profession.

DeWolfe.2174:

I was standing in Sm watching the roamers and havoks, and zergs running about. There’s a WHOLE lot more Mesmer’s now. Especially in the small scale and roaming. It was literally a Mesmer fighting Mesmer, then fighting another Mesmer. I just shook my head at how OP they are. If they weren’t these folks would be running another profession.

not surprised. of course bg and tc would run cheese classes on a mass scale.

Synosius.9876:

Unfortunately we all know how easy it is to become dismissive when other ppl don’t agree with us.

Totally. It’s also easy to be dismissing other professions are just as strong. Burning guard, cele ele, even thieves can decimate players in 2seconds. Somehow there’s some massive hatred towards mesmers.

It’s always been this way. Even if mesmers were absolutely useless (which was the case for a long time), people see clones, stealth, teleports and immediately ask for nerfs, because they can’t just spam Rampage auto attacks on it.

See here’s the thing. People who main Mesmer think Mesmer is hard. That’s why people hate Mesmers:

1.) Mesmers bait dodges through AI and instant cast. Fact.
2.) It’s not hard to land shatter/burst when it’s instant cast AND Mesmer has an easy time baiting dodges and cool downs. Fact.
3.) Mesmer has zero trade-off when they attack people because they can spam evades on top of AI and Instant Cast.
4.) And if bad things happen? Just stealth, teleport to ledges, and portal away.

TL;DR Mesmer takes no skill.

Nier.8741:

See here’s the thing. People who main Mesmer think Mesmer is hard. That’s why people hate Mesmers:

1.) Mesmers bait dodges through AI and instant cast. Fact.
2.) It’s not hard to land shatter/burst when it’s instant cast AND Mesmer has an easy time baiting dodges and cool downs. Fact.
3.) Mesmer has zero trade-off when they attack people because they can spam evades on top of AI and Instant Cast.
4.) And if bad things happen? Just stealth, teleport to ledges, and portal away.

TL;DR Mesmer takes no skill.

They’re actually thinking of introducing a new F5 skill that, upon activation, shatters the targets delicate sensibilities and produces actual, wet as a river, tears. They’re even going to name it QQ.

Nier.8741:

See here’s the thing. People who main Mesmer think Mesmer is hard. That’s why people hate Mesmers:

1.) Mesmers bait dodges through AI and instant cast. Fact.
2.) It’s not hard to land shatter/burst when it’s instant cast AND Mesmer has an easy time baiting dodges and cool downs. Fact.
3.) Mesmer has zero trade-off when they attack people because they can spam evades on top of AI and Instant Cast.
4.) And if bad things happen? Just stealth, teleport to ledges, and portal away.

TL;DR Mesmer takes no skill.

There’s no skill when most defenses are active (meaning to have to activate them) and burst requires to synchronize 3-6 skills, but there’s skill with burst=1 button, auto-evades with AA, I smash the keyboard and things happen…

Only thing overly powerful about mesmer atm is Condi users with pu, and the power lock mantra traited. The damage mesmer does now is only increased the same as other classes due to the gear changes and trait stats changes.
Condi mesmer without PU is beatable, and Power mes with pu is beatable.
I play every class and main wvw roaming and pvp.
Pre patch thief was able to maintain perma invis. That wasnt fixed. Why because mesmer is now a viable thing to play is everyone crying? such kitten.

haha it replaced b u t t h e r t with kitten ?!?!?! da wut

Im not bothered by mesmers its just 3 things i would like to see looked at

1. mantras recharging in the background. Other skills in the game also did this but they got changed to only recharge once they end and so on. i dont see how this should be any different. It would also prevent the 6 stuns / dazes you can get in one encounter before having to wait.
2. confounding suggestions. this needs its ICD synchronized from power lock.
3. power block being as rewarding as it is. Almost everything is an action so more often than not you will catch something and put it on a 15s cooldown. 15s i feel is to much maybe 10s.

I would be content if those three got changed and everything else stayed the same.

I have no interest in seeing Mesmer nerfed into oblivion, but in its current form it went from a difficult to play and time class to one that is dozens of times easier than it used to be. The main culprits are:

Confounding Suggestions: Getting a stun for free is too strong. It makes setting up your shatter a joke. Either the trait needs to have a 10 second icd, or it should only trigger on interrupts, possibly a mixture of both such kitten second icd + only on interrupts. It makes it still be useful if you’re skilled, but won’t allow you to basically stack stealth then go in with a stun+shatter combo.

Blinding Dissipation: What is up with ANet and uncounterable blinds? This shouldn’t be a thing on ANY class. It’s especially effective on classes with highly telegraphed attacks. Make it blockable/dodgeable.

Uneven Damage Distribution: Before, if you wanted to deal major damage as a Shatter Mesmer, you had to land a shatter with 3 or 2 clones. However, now you can deal an absurd amount of damage with just yourself and a single clone. Getting destroyed by a 3 clone + player shatter seems much less ridiculous than just the player + 1 clone.

I was planning to main Mesmer with the coming of the specialization patch, but these changes took all the challenge out of playing the class. I enjoyed the high skillcap Mesmer…not this monstrosity we currently have.

To person who told mesmers fallow what hellseth does is wrong ofc there is he’s fan boys but I played s/t 1y before he did also I beat hellseth in 1 vs 1 in soloque with s/t vs he’s staff so yolo I’m swag all the builds hellseth uses have not be made by hem has been there before he started using em.

I had no issues with Mesmers prepatch because they were more predictable, not because they were underpowered – as we all know – they were still great duelists.

A convo with a Mesmer:
How many condi cleanses do you have?
“A lot, for starters I get 1 cleanse per clone shatter, I can shatter 3 clones.”
When do you use Distortion?
When I feel a burst is coming on, if I want to guarantee a burst myself, stomp or want to cast >insert high channel time skill<"
I don’t know how to outplay you.
“Yea, me neither lol.”

Even the Mesmer couldn’t offer me suggestions :/
That said, I’m not going to call something overpowered when i’m not entirely sure what that something is.

Ranger can stunlock you too, Wolf fear + rapid fire, Even have longer range!
Edit they also have stealth

You get 1 cleanse per shatter, not per clone.

Saiyan.1704:

I had no issues with Mesmers prepatch because they were more predictable, not because they were underpowered – as we all know – they were still great duelists.

A convo with a Mesmer:
How many condi cleanses do you have?
“A lot, for starters I get 1 cleanse per clone shatter, I can shatter 3 clones.”
When do you use Distortion?
When I feel a burst is coming on, if I want to guarantee a burst myself, stomp or want to cast >insert high channel time skill<"
I don’t know how to outplay you.
“Yea, me neither lol.”

Even the Mesmer couldn’t offer me suggestions :/
That said, I’m not going to call something overpowered when i’m not entirely sure what that something is.

That Mesmer wasn’t very helpful to you. Must be trying to guard Mesmer secrets ;-)

Restorative Illusions is one condi removed per shatter skill used, so if the Mesmer blew all his/her shatters quickly to remove conditions, they would only remove 4 condis – after that the Mesmer could remove 1 condi every 10-13 seconds as each shatter comes off cooldown. A decent condi burst during one of these intervals will destroy the Mesmer, However, the Mesmer will also be able to remove 2 condis on healing, so that’s something to bear in mind.

Distortion is indeed a very flexible skill but it’s still on a 50 second CD like Obsidian Flesh, so the Mesmer using it to cover a long channel, won’t have it available for burst mitigation etc.

It’s stealth bursts and instant cast stuns into a full burst that causes the most problems and counterplay issues. Although, it doesn’t feel too different from spiking someone with basilisk from stealth on my Thief, other than the fact that it’s AoE damage.

Saiyan.1704:

I had no issues with Mesmers prepatch because they were more predictable, not because they were underpowered – as we all know – they were still great duelists.

A convo with a Mesmer:
How many condi cleanses do you have?
“A lot, for starters I get 1 cleanse per clone shatter, I can shatter 3 clones.”
When do you use Distortion?
When I feel a burst is coming on, if I want to guarantee a burst myself, stomp or want to cast >insert high channel time skill<"
I don’t know how to outplay you.
“Yea, me neither lol.”

Even the Mesmer couldn’t offer me suggestions :/
That said, I’m not going to call something overpowered when i’m not entirely sure what that something is.

That player should have explained that mes don’t have many good condition cleansing outside of the inspiration trait line, which I personally find is the worst line of all.

You guys are pretty ridiculous. Mesmers do not have “ridiculous” cc. the only way they can get that is if they run staff and trait for immob on stun, which means less burst damage.

Also fun fact, did you know a ranger with stability and longbow can decimate a mesmer? Yes mesmers can trait to heal better and remove conditions, but once they do that they lose the ability to easily add more illusions and burst damage. So the idea of one class “doing it all” is pretty silly, unless you mean ele? People are just not used to having to use stability versus a mesmer now and refuse to adapt.

Relying on a boon against a class that can strip boons, doesn’t seem very usefull …
And a mesmer can trait for lots of reflection, which pretty much hardcounters longbow.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Relying on a boon against a class that can strip boons, doesn’t seem very usefull …
And a mesmer can trait for lots of reflection, which pretty much hardcounters longbow.

if they trait for lots of reflection, then they arent traiting for alot of other things too… Plus, if they trait for reflection they aren’t going to be going stealth a ton. So whats the problem now? they reflect too much? Mesmers have always hard countered melee users. I mained a warrior for over a thousand hours in wvw roaming and pvp.

I also roam as a mesmer and have been hard countered by a warrior and a ranger.

I didn’t say, reflections are necessary for a mesmer to deal with lb rangers. They just can trait for it, if rangers were actually a problem.

Btw i don’t think, something like a PU mesmer (power or condi doesn’t matter) with some condi remove can be hard countered by anything in WvW atm. Except for stealthtraps. Which does not mean, they are completely unkillable. Just not “hard countered”, only outplayed.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I didn’t say, reflections are necessary for a mesmer to deal with lb rangers. They just can trait for it, if rangers were actually a problem.

pew pew ranger is pretty much the same thing as those redicilous burst builds
also way easier to do and less squishy so they have no reason to complain.