Guild Wars 2

solo Q is actually fun, i dont have to rely on others to carry me or follow any voice command by others, or even the wait of getting or forming a team just to play 1 or 2 games. i tell them where im going before start, then i turn off my chat and rely on my decision base on my teamates hp and their position also the enemy position all by looking at the mini map amazing

and people like you are why soloQ fails, people who ignore all strategies posted on the chat
I think 30% of the losses I experience could be prevented if people would follow the instructions I write into the team chat.

It actually shows Rank doesn’t matter at all ….
no one wanna defend …

i remember 2 dude worked their kitten off for some mins to take the circle from me and then just left … i walked in and recap in 10 sec..

not sure what is wrong with ppl mind … why would you cap and then walk off …

Malediktus.9250:

I have to do the dailies, I am ranked 34 EU in achievements and intend to keep my rank or even improve it. I dont understand why we are forced into playing tournaments with random people.

Well dude thats what makes the champs and us (me, and people like me) chumps. If you want to be a champ, you have to do the things that most people never bother with, lots and lots.

Think of those super champ body builders, they lift things so much, their bodies become all mutated, and they win a medal or a ford focus. Thats champs winning at this life.

Top footballers (or as Americans call it, Cricket) have to play football EVERY day, even if its raining or they need to get a super injunction to hide the fact they had an affair with thier brothers wife from getting in the local press, maybe even androids have taken over Gary Liniker is the new President of the Republic of Manchester, but they STILL have to practice football. No ifs or buts, Ronaldo has to practice diving if he wants to be the best.

Be careful though matey, heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that.

Zirith.6429:

Malediktus.9250:

Not really, its expected to turn to a 50% win/loss ratio in the long time, so unless your win/loss ratio is far above or far below after 1000 games its not your fault

There are not nearly enough players to make that happen, so it is entirely your fault (in the long run)

It’s pretty obvious matchmaking in solo queue is broken. Players with 40-60% winrates have long stretches of 0-20% or 80-100% winrates. That should not be happening often.

For example, imagine you have a 50% winrate and won or lost 15 of 20. The odds of that happening are 2%. In other words, if you played 100 sets of 20 (that’s 2000 games!) you should only have that sort of streak twice.

It’s a sign that matchmaking is not random enough. It is also very frustrating for players. The long winning streaks set unrealistic expectations for yourself, which only amplifies the long losing streaks.

Malediktus.9250:

and people like you are why soloQ fails, people who ignore all strategies posted on the chat
I think 30% of the losses I experience could be prevented if people would follow the instructions I write into the team chat.

you must be in the below 80% leaderboard…. yeah yeah i know leaderboard doesnt matter but it tells u who you will be paired with and go against. good or should i say descent players dont need strategy from someone they prolly dont even know telling them how to play. let me tell you most of the chat i seen in every solo Q i have played. it goes like this. tmate1 ill take home, tmate2 ill go mid, t3,t4 will go mid also, me ill go far and gp back mid if i cant cap it. something like that then nothing…. cause if your playing and then typing in chat meaning your not focus or prolly dead and not moving = not contributing. its a conquest game you either roam or bunk. if no bunker try bunker yourself. you need to try and carry others dont expect them to do it for you. like the old saying goes “you want something done right? you better do it yourself”

zilcho.7624:

It’s pretty obvious matchmaking in solo queue is broken. Players with 40-60% winrates have long stretches of 0-20% or 80-100% winrates. That should not be happening often.

For example, imagine you have a 50% winrate and won or lost 15 of 20. The odds of that happening are 2%. In other words, if you played 100 sets of 20 (that’s 2000 games!) you should only have that sort of streak twice.

With respect, I’d say that’s not necessarily a fair assessment.

There are X number of people who have queued for at least 20 solo matches in the last 2 months (let’s say 20,000). The chances of winning 15 out of 20 (assuming that your win rate should be 50% with perfect matchmaking) are 2%.

20,000 players have a 2% chance of going 15 for 20, which means that around 400 of them probably will, just in their first 20 matches. So unless we can collect data from a large sample of players and see that too many of them are going 15/20, we haven’t really shown anything. If 20,000 people flip a coin 20 times, it’s very likely that one of them will get at least 19 heads.

Remember that the matchmaker, of necessity, has to constantly throw unranked people into matches. There’s no way to predict how they’ll do without a half-dozen rounds of information or so. That’s one reason why some matches do appear to have poor matchmaking. Other reasons include people playing different builds, or experiencing different levels of lag, or improving their own skill level, or playing while intoxicated sometimes, or any number of other variables.

NevirSayDie.6235:

zilcho.7624:

It’s pretty obvious matchmaking in solo queue is broken. Players with 40-60% winrates have long stretches of 0-20% or 80-100% winrates. That should not be happening often.

For example, imagine you have a 50% winrate and won or lost 15 of 20. The odds of that happening are 2%. In other words, if you played 100 sets of 20 (that’s 2000 games!) you should only have that sort of streak twice.

With respect, I’d say that’s not necessarily a fair assessment.

There are X number of people who have queued for at least 20 solo matches in the last 2 months (let’s say 20,000). The chances of winning 15 out of 20 (assuming that your win rate should be 50% with perfect matchmaking) are 2%.

20,000 players have a 2% chance of going 15 for 20, which means that around 400 of them probably will, just in their first 20 matches. So unless we can collect data from a large sample of players and see that too many of them are going 15/20, we haven’t really shown anything. If 20,000 people flip a coin 20 times, it’s very likely that one of them will get at least 19 heads.

Remember that the matchmaker, of necessity, has to constantly throw unranked people into matches. There’s no way to predict how they’ll do without a half-dozen rounds of information or so. That’s one reason why some matches do appear to have poor matchmaking. Other reasons include people playing different builds, or experiencing different levels of lag, or improving their own skill level, or playing while intoxicated sometimes, or any number of other variables.

Also I’m a god and maintain a 75%+ winrate.

DaliIndica.9041:

Think of those super champ body builders, they lift things so much, their bodies become all mutated, and they win a medal or a ford focus. Thats champs winning at this life.

lol ford focus… “i pick things up and i put them down!”

NevirSayDie.6235:

With respect, I’d say that’s not necessarily a fair assessment.

There are X number of people who have queued for at least 20 solo matches in the last 2 months (let’s say 20,000). The chances of winning 15 out of 20 (assuming that your win rate should be 50% with perfect matchmaking) are 2%.

You’re making a fair point, but it is not fair directed at me. I didn’t say “too many people on a given day experience streaks”. I said “people experience too many of these streaks over time”.

Obviously, I think that – if you dug into the statistics – far more than 400 per 20000 players experience streaks on a given day. But I don’t have access to that information. So I stuck with individual terms.

Also, my analysis was too generous to the current system. If you are the sort of player who loses 15 of 20, the odds of you winning 15 of 20 in the near future should be abysmal – far lower than 2%. I’ve actually had that happen to me on consecutive streaks.

Of course, I could be the one guy in a million who has this happen. But the far more likely answer is that matchmaking isn’t random enough. Even from your perspective, it’s the more likely answer. (Your sample space is posters on this forum, not the game’s population as a whole. Your odds might be two or three orders of magnitude better than mine, but they’re still near-zero.)

zilcho.7624:

NevirSayDie.6235:

With respect, I’d say that’s not necessarily a fair assessment.

There are X number of people who have queued for at least 20 solo matches in the last 2 months (let’s say 20,000). The chances of winning 15 out of 20 (assuming that your win rate should be 50% with perfect matchmaking) are 2%.

You’re making a fair point, but it is not fair directed at me. I didn’t say “too many people on a given day experience streaks”. I said “people experience too many of these streaks over time”.

Obviously, I think that – if you dug into the statistics – far more than 400 per 20000 players experience streaks on a given day. But I don’t have access to that information. So I stuck with individual terms.

Also, my analysis was too generous to the current system. If you are the sort of player who loses 15 of 20, the odds of you winning 15 of 20 in the near future should be abysmal – far lower than 2%. I’ve actually had that happen to me on consecutive streaks.

Of course, I could be the one guy in a million who has this happen. But the far more likely answer is that matchmaking isn’t random enough. Even from your perspective, it’s the more likely answer. (Your sample space is posters on this forum, not the game’s population as a whole. Your odds might be two or three orders of magnitude better than mine, but they’re still near-zero.)

Very true, good points. I guess my point is that we already know how the matchmaker works. The developer who designed the new one (in use since late November) has been in the forums multiple times responding to threads. He’s given us all the details of how it works and has personally checked several of the matches from people posting things like “I just lost 500-100, MM can’t be working right.” Everything with the matchmaker seems fine.

If the matchmaker were at fault, what type of flaw would cause that type of result (excessive win/loss streaks)? If the matchmaker is creating uneven matchups, how would that explain the streaks you’re experiencing? For that to happen, you’d have to be on the favorable side of the error multiple times in a row, then on the unfavorable side of the error multiple times in a row. That’s statistically improbable as well, and it’s absolutely impossible for it to happen to a high percentage of people at the same time (as they’ll be on different teams). The only way a MM error could cause that is by putting the same people on the same teams too often, as it was pre-November. That fix has been confirmed. In your opinion, what problem could explain the streaks?

NevirSayDie.6235:

The only way a MM error could cause that is by putting the same people on the same teams too often, as it was pre-November. That fix has been confirmed. In your opinion, what problem could explain the streaks?

I think it’s exactly this. I get put on near-identical teams with alarming frequency. It spans multiple days of play to. I start recognizing names, it’s so bad.

Maybe the fix only works with a minimum population? Things are awful, until peak hours. The randomness is much better from about 8PM to 12PM. But the randomness disappears after that.

Matchmaking might need to be pickier during off-peak hours. It would mean longer queues, but that is preferable to a system that causes streaks.

zilcho.7624:

NevirSayDie.6235:

The only way a MM error could cause that is by putting the same people on the same teams too often, as it was pre-November. That fix has been confirmed. In your opinion, what problem could explain the streaks?

I think it’s exactly this. I get put on near-identical teams with alarming frequency. It spans multiple days of play to. I start recognizing names, it’s so bad.

Maybe the fix only works with a minimum population? Things are awful, until peak hours. The randomness is much better from about 8PM to 12PM. But the randomness disappears after that.

Matchmaking might need to be pickier during off-peak hours. It would mean longer queues, but that is preferable to a system that causes streaks.

That’s a good idea. I can see how if there are only, say, 15 people in queues over a 2-hour period, the matchmaker would be likely to put the same ones together multiple times, leading to inaccurate win/loss streaks.

I’m not sure if being “pickier” would solve the issue, though. The teams probably remain very close to the same MMR, since they’re winning or losing together. It would likely require either a bigger population or an added parameter to the matchmaker to discourage getting the same teammates.

I don’t usually play during off-hours so I’ve never experienced this. Of course, random matches in off-hours are a gamble in any game, but maybe GW2 can become the exception to that rule.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I don’t usually play during off-hours so I’ve never experienced this. Of course, random matches in off-hours are a gamble in any game, but maybe GW2 can become the exception to that rule.

There is no reason they must be a gamble. With 10 players, there are C(10,5) possible teams. That is 252 different combinations matchmaking can play with. Most of these are not going to be fair, but a handful will be. A couple should come extremely close to a 50% expected win percentage for each team.

Right now, at low populations, I think matchmaking is blind to which players are paired repeatedly. If you embraced the situation, you could assign temporary ratings to find the pairings that produce fair games. The idea would be: if you must rely on repeated pairings, at least be intelligent about doing it.

Matchmaking would refuse to pair players repeatedly, until it ran out of valid games. It would then fall back on the temporary ratings, producing fair matches using sets of players who recently played each other. (In other words, either 0 players are repeated pairings or all 10 are.)

Liza.2758:

It actually shows Rank doesn’t matter at all ….
no one wanna defend …

i remember 2 dude worked their kitten off for some mins to take the circle from me and then just left … i walked in and recap in 10 sec..

not sure what is wrong with ppl mind … why would you cap and then walk off …

Yep this happens all the time and capping home and mid instead of defending they all push far then obviously the enemy will decap your home point and reclaim far because they respawn right there so it’s easy to defend

zilcho.7624:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I don’t usually play during off-hours so I’ve never experienced this. Of course, random matches in off-hours are a gamble in any game, but maybe GW2 can become the exception to that rule.

There is no reason they must be a gamble. With 10 players, there are C(10,5) possible teams. That is 252 different combinations matchmaking can play with. Most of these are not going to be fair, but a handful will be. A couple should come extremely close to a 50% expected win percentage for each team.

Right now, at low populations, I think matchmaking is blind to which players are paired repeatedly. If you embraced the situation, you could assign temporary ratings to find the pairings that produce fair games. The idea would be: if you must rely on repeated pairings, at least be intelligent about doing it.

Matchmaking would refuse to pair players repeatedly, until it ran out of valid games. It would then fall back on the temporary ratings, producing fair matches using sets of players who recently played each other. (In other words, either 0 players are repeated pairings or all 10 are.)

I think an all-or-nothing system might be a bit harsh. It’s usually fine to see some of the same people on your team or the other team; it’s probably quite rare that it actually causes a group’s MMR to become unreliable.

If I’m in queue with three people from the top 100 I was just with, three people from 200-500, three people from 500-800, and three people from 800-1000, I’ll take the repeats.

When you see 3 mm necros or 3 guards(maybe plus hambows) in the oppossing team you know you will lose.
Current team balance system is bad, they have to balance class numbers in teams. Also they have to prevent switching to these classes if you have already 2 on your team after joining. Some classes determine win or loss, so their numbers must be equal or max number of 2 when doing matchmaking.

Also players’ pvp skill must be a thing to balance teams, they can write an algorithm to identify good players, and match them with good ones when forming a team. These good teams must be matched to other good teams. You won’t have the same “player skill point” on your all classes, it depends on the class you are currently playing. When you start a new class as an alt, your skill point will be zero, and you will be regarded as a newbie. Players with lower skill, casuals, or spvp newbies must be matched together as well to have a good gameplay experience, and learn the game. Win or loss and pvp level(because it can be farmed or made in hotjoin) mustn’t be a thing for mmr.

NevirSayDie.6235:

If the matchmaker were at fault, what type of flaw would cause that type of result (excessive win/loss streaks)? If the matchmaker is creating uneven matchups, how would that explain the streaks you’re experiencing? For that to happen, you’d have to be on the favorable side of the error multiple times in a row, then on the unfavorable side of the error multiple times in a row. That’s statistically improbable as well, and it’s absolutely impossible for it to happen to a high percentage of people at the same time (as they’ll be on different teams). The only way a MM error could cause that is by putting the same people on the same teams too often, as it was pre-November. That fix has been confirmed. In your opinion, what problem could explain the streaks?

Being unlucky with classcombinations. While the MMR might be similar, being on a team with a subpar comp can kill you. The guys you play with might be great when playing in viable team comp. But some classes arent flexible enough and quite a few guys only play 1 class in tpvp so switching isnt an option either.

I think the system should altered so it prefents classstacking as much as possible.

Silentshoes.1805:

There is something disturbing to me about a person accepting a completely made-up set of achievements in a commercial game as an actual real-life achievement.

What if a some business entity asked you to walk backwards in the rain for 1,250 days when the temperature was less than 50 degrees Fahrenheit holding their product in your hands, and if you could prove it, they would put your name on a website saying you did it.

Would you do it and feel that you had accomplished something significant?

What else could you be doing with some of that time? Could you be improving the world in some small way? Helping fix some sort of real-world problem that causes pain or discomfort for innocent people somewhere?

Well in that case it’s good that you are not that person. People can do whatever they want whenever they want it. Trying to give this speach on the forum of a game is like giving away salades in burger king. People choose to go to burger king for the burgers those who don’t like it, don’t go. Same with the game, people choose to play the game because they want to play. If he wants to do something else he’s free to go, his choise. Even people that are not playing videogames aren’t helping to improve the world or fixing real-world problems so this little “motivational” speech is so inappropriate.