Guild Wars 2

Currently mesmers have only some variation of one build to be viable in tourneys 0/20/0/0/30 with 20 points to be put wherever. Every single patch something gets broken…. for mesmers… We go up in arms about it… a dev randomly posts saying they are looking into it. Then no further mention is made of it. I am putting the post up here because it seems like class issues will get more attention if they are actually posted in the sPvP forum since that is all Anet seems to care about when balancing/fixing…. This most recent patch was supposed to be a bug fix patch. Yet the most harrowing bug that has been plaguing us since Feb 26th was the illusionary berserker bug where it either misses 3/4 attacks OR the attacks connect but it still does a max of 1k damage wasn’t even addressed…. This is with all appropriate traits and gear to max phantasm damage on a power weapon.
Add to that now that Mesmer bouncing attacks (both long range weapons we have rely on bouncing) bounce to a useless clone even if the Mesmer is in range to receive the bounce but the clone gets it because they are slightly closer. Before this most recent patch winds of chaos return trip would always go back to the Mesmer meaning they would get the clones buffs from WOC and the mesmers double tap if they had illusionary elasticity… now it goes to the clone that is closest which does absolutely nothing to help that clones DPS since they get a base of zero.

Yet with all these bugs people are still sad because of ITV… this is on a VERY long cooldown untraited and it does have an animation WHEN THE MESMER PUTS THE WALL DOWN THAT SHOULD BE A HINT! Then people gripe about MOA… For its obscenely long cooldown its a one and done deal… Maybe if they did something about timewarp mesmers wouldn’t use moa as much. In tourneys if I get Moa’d I dodge dodge 5… and wait…. if you get focused by more than 1 person after the MOA is cast then that is good team play and guess what you were prolly toast to begin with.

Jsharp also mentioned helping warriors condi removal? Mesmers get Pdisenchanter which with the current issues of bouncing attacks who knows if it will actually clear any conditions from the Mesmer… Null field/Arcane thievery/MOR… The only very good one for condi cleanse is MOR yet for what it does the cooldown is a little too long especially considering all the passive condi removal that other classes get or the fact that they get condi removal in their heal skill… Mesmer heals? How good are they? Ether Feast is about as counterintuitive as that warrior heal they were talking about in SOTG. For those of you that are still griping about Mesmer being OP for what ever reason you want to come up with… look at what bugs get fixed for classes immediately after a patch release… See how often those bugs fixed are for mesmers…

For more info here is a list of broken Mesmer traits/bugs/uncalled for nerfs that are hurting the class and destroying viable build options that have not been addressed other than a slight dismissive nod.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Game-breaking-mesmer-bugs-nerfs-issues/first#post2130553

Oh, jportell!
I miss your posts about how weak mesmers are! :P

sorrow.2364:

Oh, jportell!
I miss your posts about how weak mesmers are! :P

Can you refute anything stated here? No. Do mesmers have strong skills? yes but with each and every patch we are getting shafted more and more and more… And it gets looked over because people are so mad about:
1. Clones/Shatters-Class mechanic get used to it its not going anywhere… Clones do no damage and mindwrack does good damage only with all the right traits base damage sucks.
2. Phantasm Dueling Build: only good in 1v1 complete garbage in any tourney
3. Moa: Dodge Dodge skill #5… wait… then go kill that Mesmer
4. Focus Pull-Long cooldown and in PvP the focus phantasm sucks.
5. Hard to Catch in Fights- Once again the point. Jsharp has said that they want mesmers to have some of the slipperiness of the thief without getting it all… we do have some… however for actually escaping a fight every class including guardians and a DS necro can catch us.

Edit: and oh look at that another bug for another class got fixed… Still nothing for the Mesmer… :/

jportell.2197:

1Clones do no damage and mindwrack does good damage only with all the right traits base damage sucks.

Actually, everything on mesmer works this way.

Crap on base, but good traits which makes it great.

Which is why even a small touch on a trait can butcher or create a whole new build setup (rise and fall or Shattered Strenght, murdering of Blinding Defubblement are good examples).

AndrewSX.3794:

jportell.2197:

1Clones do no damage and mindwrack does good damage only with all the right traits base damage sucks.

Actually, everything on mesmer works this way.

Crap on base, but good traits which makes it great.

Which is why even a small touch on a trait can butcher or create a whole new build setup (rise and fall or Shattered Strenght, murdering of Blinding Defubblement are good examples).

And still not a single thing is being said about why they nerfed blinding befuddlement which had less to do with glamour bombs than confusing enchantments… also the 50% damage reduction in pvp/wvw compared to pve should be good enough especially for a condition that could possibly do absolutely no damage compared to say burning/bleeding/poison.

I think that if there is a priority list of profession that should be looked at, mesmer is at the bottom.

They are very strong and highly represented in every aspect of this game, starting form tPvP to dungeons. They have good damage, amazing survivability, the best control in the game, incredibly easy access to invulnerability, 3 of the most powerful elites in the game, all weapon sets are viable… They have everything, there is nothing to really complain about.

While I’m sure mesmer has its share of bugs, I don’t think it’s going to be a very high priority. Many (read: all) professions have bugs and awkward abilities that keep getting overlooked, and they’re doing a lot worse than mesmers currently are.

This thing deserves 4 separate threads.

State of Illusionary Berserker.

State of Mesmer’s Torch.

State of Mesmer’s Scepter.

State of Mesmer’s build diversity.

Muramasma.1570:

While I’m sure mesmer has its share of bugs, I don’t think it’s going to be a very high priority. Many (read: all) professions have bugs and awkward abilities that keep getting overlooked, and they’re doing a lot worse than mesmers currently are.

Objectively speaking, Mesmer is in deep s...

Comparatively speaking, Mesmer is in a pretty good spot to be right now - not good enough to be nerfed, but good enough to compete with success in tournament teams.

Mesmer needs the ‘bounce-to-clone’ bug fixed, but besides that they’re still in a pretty good place.

Muramasma.1570:

While I’m sure mesmer has its share of bugs, I don’t think it’s going to be a very high priority. Many (read: all) professions have bugs and awkward abilities that keep getting overlooked, and they’re doing a lot worse than mesmers currently are.

Mesmer’s are only doing good because of ONE decent build for tournaments and portal… Any Mesmer that wishes to experiment with a different build or focus on condition damage instead of shatter burst is laughed at… Why? Because all other traits to do with those skills either suck to begin with or have been nerfed…. Even with engis you see some variability such as HGH or the shield bunker (they perform pretty well.) And necros have things from Minion-mancer, well-o-mancer, or condi mancer…. Mesmer hkittenter to be good in tournaments and…. ? Basic condition removal is worse for mesmers than all other classes… WHY? Because every other class including warriors gets some condi removal in their heal skill or a passive removal from a signet/trait… All Mesmer condition removal requires either a trait for a bad weapon (torch) in a line that sucks for pvp (inspiration) or taking up that one last utility slot because in the end teams require IOL and portal….

My question is: How can we reduce phantasm spec’s 1v1 dominance, while also making it more viable for team play?

Having played over half my games as a Mesmer I can say that they are in a good spot right now and don’t need a ton of attention from devs. They have a very competitive spec and a lot of pretty good specs scattered around.

If anything I’d like to see Portal and Illusion of life nerfed slightly and some other unused utilities brought up a bit so that we can have some more variety than the very standard Portal/IoL/Blink/MoA.

But relative to other classes (War/Necro) Mesmers are in a VERY good spot. Trying to push for Mesmer changes when there are much larger issues to be addressed just shows ignorance.

Hexs.8015:

My question is: How can we reduce phantasm spec’s 1v1 dominance, while also making it more viable for team play?

Remove empowered illusions that was meant for a time when clones also did damage… It is just giving a phantasm spec a double buff for damage…

Then to help for team play remove the necessity that this skill cannot be blinded/blocked/invulned…
“Phantasmal defender” this skill is supposed to do nothing but tank damage for allies so it shouldn’t require an enemy target anymore than a necro minion does or a ranger spirit…
And when you shatter you are sacrificing the damage you would get from that illusion instead grants nearby allies protection.
Increase the healing ticks from phantasmal healing… I think that would help the phantasm spec in team play. Also even though they said it phantasms toughness/vit did not get an increase in the patch they said they were doing it for “summons”

Pandabro.8743:

Having played over half my games as a Mesmer I can say that they are in a good spot right now and don’t need a ton of attention from devs. They have a very competitive spec and a lot of pretty good specs scattered around.

If anything I’d like to see Portal and Illusion of life nerfed slightly and some other unused utilities brought up a bit so that we can have some more variety than the very standard Portal/IoL/Blink/MoA.

But relative to other classes (War/Necro) Mesmers are in a VERY good spot. Trying to push for Mesmer changes when there are much larger issues to be addressed just shows ignorance.

I am pushing for changes because with each new patch there is either a new bug that will never get addressed. Or a completely unnecessary nerf… Every patch mesmers log in scared to see what has happened to their skills and then stuck wondering how they can “make it work” after usually what happens is a build that was good but not as powerful as some other classes got wrecked.

Edit: This thread is not about how the Mesmer is in the absolute worst state. It is a thread about it being pushed down that path. I am not saying the Mesmer needs massive buffs…. I am saying the Mesmer needs to have things WORK AS INTENDED I have 6 classes Mesmer is the one I enjoy the most it is also the one that worries me the most because I see the changes happen patch after patch. And never get addressed. This last patch for instance never mentioned anything about the bouncing change and yet it happened. I don’t wanna see stupidly major buffs to make this class over the top I want the bugs to be fixed (We have a ton each new patch) and us to stop getting unnecessary nerfs.

jportell.2197:

Edit: This thread is not about how the Mesmer is in the absolute worst state. It is a thread about it being pushed down that path. I am not saying the Mesmer needs massive buffs…. I am saying the Mesmer needs to have things WORK AS INTENDED I have 6 classes Mesmer is the one I enjoy the most it is also the one that worries me the most because I see the changes happen patch after patch. And never get addressed. This last patch for instance never mentioned anything about the bouncing change and yet it happened. I don’t wanna see stupidly major buffs to make this class over the top I want the bugs to be fixed (We have a ton each new patch) and us to stop getting unnecessary nerfs.

I agree somethwhat. That is why i proposed to move rather than delete some mesmer triats. I see them getting nerfed in the future and would rather the nerf not be harsh on shatter of phantasm.

The issue with bouncing skills:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Major-bug-with-Bouncing-skills-mechanic/page/2#post2133175

There is no push for Mesmer buffs, but rather, a push for the way Mesmer bugs are treated to change.

As mentioned in the recent SOTG, Izerker issue. Lasted over 3months and consistent top topic in Mesmer forums replied with the excuse of ignorance? It even has a red post in it for crying out loud. And now the bouncing issue? The current way for Mesmer bugs to even get a response is a direct live question in SOTG? If Izerker was never brought up in SOTG it would never get fixed despite a red recognition?

Furthermore, these bugs are not a trait or minor bug, its a newly introduced bug on weapon skills that significantly lowered the effectiveness of said skills and was undocumented and received no reasonably proper reply or response.

If it means anything, I felt Mesmers were the most bug-free at launch of the game, day zero. Every passing patch I search the forums and wiki for undocumented changes, login to my Mesmer and test my weapons skills to see if they even work properly. And if something is wrong, I can only pray and beg for indications of a clutch fix months later.

Sometimes I wonder if there are inside devs who secretly hate the Mesmer class but are unable to present justified nerfs to the community in broad daylight and thus resort to undocumented mechanic shenanigans to harm the Mesmers. It’ll be like, the skill TECHINCALLY does this, but goodluck getting it to work as described.

Blurred Frenzy and Mind Wrack are currently incredibly, almost brokenly strong, and you think they’re UP? Are you serious?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Blurred Frenzy and Mind Wrack are currently incredibly, almost brokenly strong, and you think they’re UP? Are you serious?

Not saying anything about UP. I am talking about how every patch ANET manages to break something and then only lightly acknowledge thakittens bugged. Then NEVER fix it… This is extremely infuriating and is limiting mesmers more and more with every single patch… I love how people say necros are so UP yet they have more builds to work with than mesmers. In general mesmers always run DE and some form of a shatter spec. we have no other tourney spec that is good enough. not confusion, not condition damage, not bunker, and interrupt builds went the way of the DODO in the betas. I am not talking about a general underpoweredness I am talking about bugs… Every patch we log in wondering “What did they break this time” If it is something that helps us out puts us over the top whatever… hot fixed w/in 2 days maxed… Anything that royally screws us over… Swept under the rug and dismissed… Take this most recent patch, a few necro and engineer things were broken.. Hot fixed with in two days. Mesmer bouncing attacks and bouncing attacks in general now no longer prioritize players. yet this wasn’t in the patch notes. Now the GS is perma useless thanks to requiring mesmers to be closer than clones to get might but all that might is negated by GS sucking at close range. Then we have staff one… No more might or fury for us.. but for our clones… Oh and did I mention clones do not benefit from might they inherit our stats so any boon applied to them improving stats is essentially wasted… Yet this bouncing bug not prioritizing players has not even gotten noticed.

Do you understand now why mesmers are so kitten ed off with every patch?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Blurred Frenzy and Mind Wrack are currently incredibly, almost brokenly strong, and you think they’re UP? Are you serious?

The focus is on bugs and how they are introduced every patch undocumented and hidden in various game mechanics, not Mesmers being UP.

How would you feel if you got arrested without a reason or trial? How would you feel if your X skill got dps lowered by 30-50% with no documentation, reasoning or explanation? And its not even a direct number lowering, its through lame reasons like, bouncing priority, AoE hitboxes and uneven terrain (not enough to lose line of sight).

You could be like Necro’s and have no place at all in tournaments, even with our most viable tournament build (also see: Warriors). Mesmers are in a great spot right now compared to other professions. They have the same problems every other profession has, except they are less severe and have a lot of other things that actually works for them.

I can tell a world of difference between my Necro and my Mesmer. Mesmers have near null reason to complain at the games current state.

People seem to mix up the needs for bugfixing and balancing. Every attempt they do at balancing now is pretty much worthless, because once they fix the bugs, they’ll have to start over. The most ridiculous things they have to fix now are
- bounce mechanic
- clone targeting
- iZerker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SYHmS93Ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0918gFXVht8
I don’t care about PvP much, but since they always seem to break things in favor of PvP instead of fixing them properly or simply splitting the changes between the game modes, it seems you have to comment in here as well if you don’t want your class to be broken in PvE/WvW.

The point isn’t about how Mes is compared to other professions and how things are balanced (or not).

The issue is that there are tons of things which stop working due to patches and never get fixed. Which is bad regardless of the power of a class. What, mesmer is considered in a good spot anyway so do not deserve a debugging for things that devs broken with some patches (assuming it was unintended and not “Hey, let’s down to 1/5 the dmg of iZerker, nobody will notice and in case we’ll call bug and just never fix it”).

Every profession needs bug fixes. Every profession are getting them more or less.
There are professions which are way worse when talking about bugs compared to mesmers.

- Necro minions still watch the fight half the time instead of attacking and this bug has existed since release. Basically 4 utilities, a heal skill and an elite skill are pretty much worthless.
- Spiteful Talisman still doesn’t work in PvE and PvP.
- Necromancer’s downed health is still 1/3 of what it should be in PvE and WvW. Yes. 1/3.
- Your Moa Morph skill still kills all minions and put them on cooldown, despite the fact it was stated by devs that this behavior is unintended.

Those are only from Necromancer I can recall at the moment. Plus, they are under-represented and unwanted in most situations and they are universally considered as weak, but this is another story.

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.
Now, do you understand why people here say Mesmers are low priority at the moment?

jportell.2197:

sorrow.2364:

Oh, jportell!
I miss your posts about how weak mesmers are! :P

Can you refute anything stated here? No. Do mesmers have strong skills? yes but with each and every patch we are getting shafted more and more and more… And it gets looked over because people are so mad about:
1. Clones/Shatters-Class mechanic get used to it its not going anywhere… Clones do no damage and mindwrack does good damage only with all the right traits base damage sucks.
2. Phantasm Dueling Build: only good in 1v1 complete garbage in any tourney
3. Moa: Dodge Dodge skill #5… wait… then go kill that Mesmer
4. Focus Pull-Long cooldown and in PvP the focus phantasm sucks.
5. Hard to Catch in Fights- Once again the point. Jsharp has said that they want mesmers to have some of the slipperiness of the thief without getting it all… we do have some… however for actually escaping a fight every class including guardians and a DS necro can catch us.

Edit: and oh look at that another bug for another class got fixed… Still nothing for the Mesmer… :/

And let’s say something else too..

Mind wrack is an easily avoidable burst too…you have to bait decent ppl with leap to make them waste their dodge/invuln and then mind wrack after some time if you want a chance to hit them, usual leap, diversion and mindwrack combo is going to be avoided by 100% of ppl with just a bit of brain…and after that you have nothing..just dodge and kite until it’s ready again…

Hard to catch…again, if you know how mesmer’s basic mechanincs work it’s easy to get the real mesmer…decent players stick to you like glue until you used all your escapes and then you’re dead, kittens given to clones = 0

..and we have teleports (Into walls -.-)…

But yeah…sure, if someone here still stomps our clone while downed i suppose mesmer is going to be pretty hard for him….but for sure is not because mesmer is so op….

Archaon.6245:

And let’s say something else too..

Mind wrack is an easily avoidable burst too…you have to bait decent ppl with leap to make them waste their dodge/invuln and then mind wrack after some time if you want a chance to hit them, usual leap, diversion and mindwrack combo is going to be avoided by 100% of ppl with just a bit of brain…and after that you have nothing..just dodge and kite until it’s ready again…

Hard to catch…again, if you know how mesmer’s basic mechanincs work it’s easy to get the real mesmer…decent players stick to you like glue until you used all your escapes and then you’re dead, kittens given to clones = 0

But yeah…sure, if someone here still stomps our clone while downed i suppose mesmer is going to be pretty hard for him….but for sure is not because mesmer is op….

Please, please.
Don’t start the mesmer is UP argument again. It isn’t the subject of the topic (as the OP said, right?) and none agrees with you anyway, unless they play mesmer.
So, let it stop now.

sorrow.2364:

Every profession needs bug fixes. Every profession are getting them more or less.
There are professions which are way worse when talking about bugs compared to mesmers.

- Necro minions still watch the fight half the time instead of attacking and this bug has existed since release. Basically 4 utilities, a heal skill and an elite skill are pretty much worthless.
- Spiteful Talisman still doesn’t work in PvE and PvP.
- Necromancer’s downed health is still 1/3 of what it should be in PvE and WvW. Yes. 1/3.
- Your Moa Morph skill still kills all minions and put them on cooldown, despite the fact it was stated by devs that this behavior is unintended.

Those are only from Necromancer I can recall at the moment. Plus, they are under-represented and unwanted in most situations and they are universally considered as weak, but this is another story.

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.
Now, do you understand why people here say Mesmers are low priority at the moment?

So our gamebreaking bugs are of lower priority than your gamebreaking bugs. Well yeah, that’s clearly an unbiased statement. We didn’t say our bugs should be fixed quicker than yours, all bugs should be fixed, or at least the important ones (and definitely not the ones we usually find in the patchnotes) because otherwise balancing attempts are useless.

sorrow.2364:

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.

Yes, why don’t you start doing that for necros instead of complaining here? Are you afraid that our bugs could actually be fixed before yours? We didn’t come here to compare to other classes but to make a general statement about the state of the mesmer (you know, that’s why the topic is called "state of the mesmer").

Iruwen.3164:

Are you afraid that our bugs could actually be fixed before yours?

Kind of. Mesmer already are god tier.

Iruwen.3164:

sorrow.2364:

Every profession needs bug fixes. Every profession are getting them more or less.
There are professions which are way worse when talking about bugs compared to mesmers.

- Necro minions still watch the fight half the time instead of attacking and this bug has existed since release. Basically 4 utilities, a heal skill and an elite skill are pretty much worthless.
- Spiteful Talisman still doesn’t work in PvE and PvP.
- Necromancer’s downed health is still 1/3 of what it should be in PvE and WvW. Yes. 1/3.
- Your Moa Morph skill still kills all minions and put them on cooldown, despite the fact it was stated by devs that this behavior is unintended.

Those are only from Necromancer I can recall at the moment. Plus, they are under-represented and unwanted in most situations and they are universally considered as weak, but this is another story.

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.
Now, do you understand why people here say Mesmers are low priority at the moment?

So our gamebreaking bugs are of lower priority than your gamebreaking bugs. Well yeah, that’s clearly an unbiased statement. We didn’t say our bugs should be fixed quicker than yours, all bugs should be fixed, or at least the important ones (and definitely not the ones we usually find in the patchnotes) because otherwise balancing attempts are useless.

sorrow.2364:

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.

Yes, why don’t you start doing that for necros instead of complaining here? Are you afraid that our bugs could actually be fixed before yours? We didn’t come here to compare to other classes but to make a general statement about the state of the mesmer (you know, that’s why the topic is called “state of the mesmer”).

What exactly is a gamebreaking bug for you?
The iZerker not hitting for 5k damage but only 3k?
Mirror Blades which also bounce between clones?
Your 2-damage per hit clones have wrong targets?
Yeah, they are sure gamebreaking bugs.
Having 6 skills completely not working and 2/3 less downed health in PvE and WvW are just marginal bugs, yeah.

I’m not complaining here.
I’m just saying how silly is that someone who says that an incredibly strong class needs to be fixed immediately, like they are worthless without those fixes, while there are professions that barely are into playable state and still don’t get the fixes they need.
The OP sounds more like a rant than a bug report, that’s why I’m posting here.

sorrow.2364:

Iruwen.3164:

sorrow.2364:

Every profession needs bug fixes. Every profession are getting them more or less.
There are professions which are way worse when talking about bugs compared to mesmers.

- Necro minions still watch the fight half the time instead of attacking and this bug has existed since release. Basically 4 utilities, a heal skill and an elite skill are pretty much worthless.
- Spiteful Talisman still doesn’t work in PvE and PvP.
- Necromancer’s downed health is still 1/3 of what it should be in PvE and WvW. Yes. 1/3.
- Your Moa Morph skill still kills all minions and put them on cooldown, despite the fact it was stated by devs that this behavior is unintended.

Those are only from Necromancer I can recall at the moment. Plus, they are under-represented and unwanted in most situations and they are universally considered as weak, but this is another story.

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.
Now, do you understand why people here say Mesmers are low priority at the moment?

So our gamebreaking bugs are of lower priority than your gamebreaking bugs. Well yeah, that’s clearly an unbiased statement. We didn’t say our bugs should be fixed quicker than yours, all bugs should be fixed, or at least the important ones (and definitely not the ones we usually find in the patchnotes) because otherwise balancing attempts are useless.

sorrow.2364:

Probably someone else can list some other game-breaking bugs other professions have.

Yes, why don’t you start doing that for necros instead of complaining here? Are you afraid that our bugs could actually be fixed before yours? We didn’t come here to compare to other classes but to make a general statement about the state of the mesmer (you know, that’s why the topic is called “state of the mesmer”).

What exactly is a gamebreaking bug for you?
The iZerker not hitting for 5k damage but only 3k?
Mirror Blades which also bounce between clones?
Your 2-damage per hit clones have wrong targets?
Yeah, they are sure gamebreaking bugs.
Having 6 skills completely not working and 2/3 less downed health in PvE and WvW are just marginal bugs, yeah.

..and walls man…let’s talk about porting into kittening walls since release, rush for fix? I don’t think so…

Its amazing that in the pvp forum we find QQing about how horrible mesmers are.

What more ridiculous abilities do you want op?

sorrow.2364:

just marginal bugs

I explicitly said they’re gamebreaking as well. Your reading comprehension is really lacking. Instead of coming here and starting an argument, you should better do what you already implied: start another list. Getting bugfixes is important for everybody, not just one class. And you wouldn’t see me say that there are other classes that have more severe problems than necros so they should get their fixes first.
That’s why I don’t come to the PvP forums often: people start an argument over almost everything.

Generally speaking, while some bugs may need time to fix because they’re complicated (I don’t even hope for leaps to ever be fixed, although they’re affecting two of five s/s skills), this is becoming an inacceptable situation where actually more new heavy bugs are introduced than fixed. Plus some balancing attempts are questionable, if not plain flawed.

SmoothHussler.6387:

Its amazing that in the pvp forum we find QQing about how horrible mesmers are.

We aren’t horrible, we aren’t underpowered, we’re just broken like most other classes. We’ve taken this topic to this subforum because there are actual devs in here, unlike the class forums. Which you would have noticed if you had read the op.

Iruwen.3164:

Generally speaking, while some bugs may need time to fix because they’re complicated (I don’t even hope for leaps to ever be fixed, although they’re affecting two of five s/s skills), this is becoming an inacceptable situation where actually more new heavy bugs are introduced than fixed. Plus some balancing attempts are questionable, if not plain flawed.

The fact that balancing attempts are questionable is your opinion.
It happens that a patch brings some other bug.

As I said, those bugs listed aren’t gamebreaking as you guys are depicting them; I don’t think we would see so many GS mesmers or mesmers in general if their bugs were that gamebreaking. I’ve tried myself the Mesmer sometime in PvP (I refuse to have it as a main character) and it is still extremely strong, despite the bugs.

So, since those bugs aren’t ruining your game experience that much, I don’t see any reason to get angry and urge the developers for fixes, expecially when almost every profession is on the same state if even worse.

Funny to read such statements when you’re actually doing the same. I could say now that your bugs aren’t either which I don’t. I wonder why you’re so aggressive. I actually feel sorry for necros specifically after Jonathan came to their forum to tell them the next release would be a bugfix release.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-state-of-Necromancer/page/3#post2062970
I guess we were all fooled. And please, don’t try to decide what ruins my experience for me, I’m well aware of that.

Iruwen.3164:

Funny to read such statements when you’re actually doing the same. I could say now that your bugs aren’t either which I don’t. I wonder why you’re so aggressive. I actually feel sorry for necros specifically after Jonathan came to their forum to tell them the next release would be a bugfix release.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-state-of-Necromancer/page/3#post2062970
I guess we were all fooled. And please, don’t try to decide what ruins my experience for me, I’m well aware of that.

I didn’t meant to have an aggressive behavior, sorry if you felt like that.

What I’m trying to say is that Mesmers aren’t in an unplayable state, neither they needs those bug fixed to be considered on par with other professions.

The downed state bug for Necromancer is incredibly gamebreaking. It pretty much means you’re dying 3x faster in PvE and WvW once downed. Same applies to minions not attacking, because that is a core mechanic of the profession completely not working.

What I’m arguing about (I’ve also said it before) is how OP is angry about bugs, specifically about Mesmer, like if they aren’t fixed right now, he can’t enjoy the Mesmer at all. That is the exaggeration I’m criticizing.
I’ve never said those bugs don’t need a fix, I’ve just said that doing a rant like that is pointless and quite ridiculous since some professions are in a worse state form much longer time without getting a fix and they aren’t as strong and required as Mesmer is in all environments.

That sounds different and I agree, no bad blood, I’ve probably also sounded a bit rude. As I said before, I don’t really care about PvP much (I’ve actually never joined a match), so I’m looking at my mesmer from a more isolated perspective. I’m also playing only that single class, but I feel for everybody else having similar or worse problems. I just see that instead of fixing bugs, new ones are introduced. As a PvE/WvW player, the clone targeting / bounce attack problems are probably also way more important to me than for a PvP player. And I don’t necessarily agree with what other mesmer players say, I would never say we’re in an unplayable state or underpowered. We aren’t. It’s just a mjaor annoyance.

Let me tell about my state of the mesmer
After 300 games played as Warrior I made mesmer for spvp. Never played a mesmer just Warrior since lunch.
Its like im playing a different game. At first I just mashed buttons because I was too lazy to look at skills description – still win duels and not die in team fights.
Now I know what those skill do – I berly die and score more than with my Warrior.
And the clones. Oh the clones are just ridiculus.
So please make a Warrior and tell me about stat of the mesmers.

As mesmers we have sooo many haters omg. Just because we’ve enjoyed some success does not mean we need to be nerfed in to the ground now…

Whats with the Mesmer hate around here? No one is asking for a buff, no one is asking for a nerf to other classes. We are simply compiling issues we want a reply to because posting in our class forums have proven ineffective. And people proceed to post in tones similar to “how dare you even start a state of the Mesmer topic”?

What this feels like to me: A rich guy gets robbed and goes queue up to file a police report. A poorer guy already in queue turns around and shouts in the rich guy’s face, “how dare you even file a police report. I’m poorer and deserve the whole space of the queue to myself!”. Even though the poorer guy is already ahead in queue and decision of priority is ultimately decided by the policeman.

Not directed at anyone, just wanted to add some pictorial evidence to the izerker’s issue. This happens roughly 30% of the time on a stationary golem in HotM.

Noince.7364:

What this feels like to me: A rich guy gets robbed and goes queue up to file a police report. A poorer guy already in queue turns around and shouts in the rich guy’s face, “how dare you even file a police report. I’m poorer and deserve the whole space of the queue to myself!”. Even though the poorer guy is already ahead in queue and decision of priority is ultimately decided by the policeman.

It sounds more like that the richer guy wants to ho ahead in the queue because he can’t live without the stuff he got stolen, without considering the millions he has in his bank account. Devs have already said they are aware of the issues. I see no reason for this topic to even exist.

Noince.7364:

Not directed at anyone, just wanted to add some pictorial evidence to the izerker’s issue. This happens roughly 30% of the time on a stationary golem in HotM.

And what exactly is happening?

Opynn.2936:

Let me tell about my state of the mesmer
After 300 games played as Warrior I made mesmer for spvp. Never played a mesmer just Warrior since lunch.
Its like im playing a different game. At first I just mashed buttons because I was too lazy to look at skills description – still win duels and not die in team fights.
Now I know what those skill do – I berly die and score more than with my Warrior.
And the clones. Oh the clones are just ridiculus.
So please make a Warrior and tell me about stat of the mesmers.

I have like 2k+ games with mesmer class and ppl still manage to down me in tpvp aswell as with thief or bunker guardian (Even xeph, helseth and many others really good mesmers eventually go down)…2 cases here…you were bad as hell with war or you’re just going hotjoin/1vs1 swag (Look at mee noob, i’m da kiiinggg..i’ll faceroll you 1vs1…come get some!!! YEahhh!!1!1) duels and you don’t meet decent players…and you’re probably playing phantasm that is totally worthless outside killing nabs in hotzerg or duels…go shatter (Since phantasm, as i said, it’s totally unuseful) in tpvp (With team utilities..portal, time warp and maybe illusion of life too) and try being so immortal vs someone with a brain…you’ll see the difference by youself..welcome to the real world..or you can just stay hotzerg but at least please stop claiming mesmers are immortal just because you can kill bads spamming phantasms…or you get killed by another one spamming phantasms too..

Every Mesmer build has On demand access to:

-Power based burst.
-One of the most powerful conditions in PvP (confusion)
-AOE Stun…
-Invulnerability, or guaranteed stomp.

Yeah.. I think it’s time they saw a nerf.

Most other professions have to spec down 2 trait lines to gain viable access to a single one of those.

Wolf.5816:

Yeah.. I think it’s time they saw a nerf.

Funny thing is that mesmers actually got nerfs in every single patch…or do you mean rangers?

@sorrow: That’s the problem, Mesmers aren’t even getting a proper acknowledgement of issues. Therefore, I do see the need for this topic for more exposure about these bugs. Two issues i’m particular about:

1.) Bouncing Priority Issue.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Major-bug-with-Bouncing-skills-mechanic/page/2#post2133175

Not a single red acknowledgement, and it even affects bouncing skills not just from Mesmers. Introduced without any documentation in the recent patch.

2.) Izerker issue.
We needed a direct question asking face-to-face to get an acknowledgement of the issue? Even then its shoddy at “i’ll look into it”. Before the recent SOTG, this is was the last reply made to Mesmers concerning the issue, 1month ago.

JonPeters.5630:

As far as we know something did go wrong. We can’t reliably get it to display all of he damage floaters, but we have tried to test if the damage is lower or it just doesn’t hit and we have never seen that error I our debug setup which shows attack areas. I may try and make a bad pic tomorrow to show what I mean.

This is not a confirmation of the bug by Anet, according to this, damage is not affected and only displayed numbers are malfunctioning. And they give us the lame reason of damage floater issue? It takes 1minute to specifically observe the HP bar to know its not the case. There is no further communication afterwards, left hanging for the “bad picture”.

No offense meant to any other classes, we are not going, “fix us first instead of other classes”, we are looking for the most basic, from Anet: “Yes we know this bug exists and will queue it up for fixing”.

Asomal.6453:

And what exactly is happening?

Izerker just spinned past a stationary golem for 460 damage. Less damage than an auto-attack.

Wolf.5816:

Yeah.. I think it’s time they saw a nerf.

Did you even bother to read the posts by people so far in the thread? Or did you just read the title alone and posted with your assumptions. Being nerfed through skill balancing (acceptable) is different from being nerfed through new bugs (unacceptable).

Examples of unacceptable nerf through bugs:

-Mesmers: Nerf them by making their phantasms bug out and deal almost no damage sometimes.

-Eles: Nerf them by making their attunement changes bug out and fail changing sometimes.

-Guard: Nerf them by making their boons bug out and fail application sometimes.

-Theif: Nerf them by making their stealth bug out and apply revealed instantly sometimes even if they never attacked.

-Ranger: Nerf them by making their pet go stoning-mode and refuse to attack enemies sometimes.

-Necro/Warrior: Nerf them by making their deathshroud/adrenaline randomly empty themselves sometimes.

Wolf.5816:

Every Mesmer build has On demand access to:

-Power based burst.
-One of the most powerful conditions in PvP (confusion)
-AOE Stun…
-Invulnerability, or guaranteed stomp.

Yeah.. I think it’s time they saw a nerf.

Most other professions have to spec down 2 trait lines to gain viable access to a single one of those.

Did you just say confusion is powerful in pvp? Confusion is the weakest condition in PvP right now thanks to a 50% reduction compared to PvE, the completely uncalled for blinding befuddlement nerf and the fact that a confusion Mesmer has to blow ALL cooldowns to get even a somewhat respectable amount on a player… And guess what… if they are confusion built the will not have access to power based burst… Also this AOE stun of which u speak if you are talking about imbued diversion then there goes the mesmers access to on demand invulnerability.

Once again People are overlooking the point of this thread. It is not to say just how sad of a state the Mesmer is in and if we do not get major buffs we will never be useful at all…. As long as portal and illusion of life is around people could care less if the Mesmer ran around the map like a chicken with its head cut off. We are talking about just how enjoyable it is for mesmers to play their class. We are talking about how PATCH AFTER PATCH AFTER PATCH some new bug gets introduced that severely hurts our mechanics in some way. Looked at the game bugs thread and apparently now iZerker isn’t going after certain summons in fractals (bloomhunger) yet another thing that was flat out broken in this patch and has received no attention on getting fixed… And for those of you wondering what the issue with iZerker is here is a screen shot…. In this build I have all relevant traits for the including Greatsword training empowered illusions and so on. The build had a total of 3600 power (a lot) something that is harder to Achieve in PvP and the iZerker hit for a total of 600 damage… Now for semantics lets say that one day thief backstab started hitting for 800-1k max in their most damaging build, or ele fire grab only did 500 damage against burning foes, or a frenzied warrior now did half the damage instead of double… That is essentially what is going on with our iZerker. The greatsword Auto attack hits harder about 80% of the time. Add to it now the bouncing attack issue where our clones or a necros freaking jagged horror are getting six stacks of might this weapon becomes useless.

Noince.7364

2.) Izerker issue.
We needed a direct question asking face-to-face to get an acknowledgement of the issue? Even then its shoddy at “i’ll look into it”. Before the recent SOTG, this is was the last reply made to Mesmers concerning the issue, 1month ago.

JonPeters.5630:

As far as we know something did go wrong. We can’t reliably get it to display all of he damage floaters, but we have tried to test if the damage is lower or it just doesn’t hit and we have never seen that error I our debug setup which shows attack areas. I may try and make a bad pic tomorrow to show what I mean.

This is not a confirmation of the bug by Anet, according to this, damage is not affected and only displayed numbers are malfunctioning. And they give us the lame reason of damage floater issue? It takes 1minute to specifically observe the HP bar to know its not the case. There is no further communication afterwards, left hanging for the “bad picture”.

No offense meant to any other classes, we are not going, “fix us first instead of other classes”, we are looking for the most basic, from Anet: “Yes we know this bug exists and will queue it up for fixing”.

This thread however is a confirmation bug by ANET

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Mesmer-illusionary-zerker-Bug-Report/page/2#post1696781

Jason King stated in this thread that they did not make any intentional changes to the iZerker in the patch that broke it. He further stated that he didn’t know why it wakittenting for less or missing completely