Guild Wars 2

Ok, I’ve rellay had the worst of PvP afternoons again because of the same old bullkitten.

And I’ve just about had it.

9 consecutive losses now because of the same bullcrap. And I mostly blame Thieves.

Unless you have a decap Engi or are on Voice-Com/have some other refined strategy there is exactly one viable way to open the game.

And that’s 1 guy close (preferably something fairly tanky and good at 1v1).
The rest goes Mid, asap.

That includes Thieves and any other class that insists they are some sort of 1v1 hero and absolutely must push far.

Why?

Because let’s assume you do actually manage to take our their fairly bunkerish far point holder (which should take a minute or so).

In the mean time your friends are fighting 3vs.4 at mid and probably losing. They get killed off 1 by 1, giving your enemies 5 points each and forcing them to respawn. Now the situation cascades as your allies run back to mid (or wherever the action is) to a point camped by 3 players…and again get zerged down (because who waits for their allies to respawn in Pugs?)

Meanwhile the 4 enemies who got mid will probably have dispatched someone to assist far and kill whoever is left there.

And at that point you’re probably already 100 points behind and the enemy is sitting on two points and has an easy time shifting from one point to anther.

There you go, your inflated ego that caused you to push far point has lost your team the game. You should be proud.

Now this doesn’t mean never push far point. There are plenty of good reasons to do so. Just don’t do it on the opener when it will cost your team both mid-point and 3 lives and gain nothing.

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

Pushing far ruins lives. Do not push far without medical assistance.

Nabbo.2845:

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

There’s a stickied official post on these very forums that has a huge selection of guides, top PVP builds, and links to top PVP streams: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-to-PvP-Start-here

The problem is a lot of people don’t read the forums.

Kharr.5746:

Nabbo.2845:

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

There’s a stickied official post on these very forums that has a huge selection of guides, top PVP builds, and links to top PVP streams: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-to-PvP-Start-here

The problem is a lot of people don’t read the forums.

Problem is that casuals or 90% of the playerbase won’t go on forums. It should be integrated in the Mists tutorial.

Dee Jay.2460:

Ok, I’ve rellay had the worst of PvP afternoons again because of the same old bullkitten.

And I’ve just about had it.

9 consecutive losses now because of the same bullcrap. And I mostly blame Thieves.

Unless you have a decap Engi or are on Voice-Com/have some other refined strategy there is exactly one viable way to open the game.

And that’s 1 guy close (preferably something fairly tanky and good at 1v1).
The rest goes Mid, asap.

That includes Thieves and any other class that insists they are some sort of 1v1 hero and absolutely must push far.

Why?

Because let’s assume you do actually manage to take our their fairly bunkerish far point holder (which should take a minute or so).

In the mean time your friends are fighting 3vs.4 at mid and probably losing. They get killed off 1 by 1, giving your enemies 5 points each and forcing them to respawn. Now the situation cascades as your allies run back to mid (or wherever the action is) to a point camped by 3 players…and again get zerged down (because who waits for their allies to respawn in Pugs?)

Meanwhile the 4 enemies who got mid will probably have dispatched someone to assist far and kill whoever is left there.

And at that point you’re probably already 100 points behind and the enemy is sitting on two points and has an easy time shifting from one point to anther.

There you go, your inflated ego that caused you to push far point has lost your team the game. You should be proud.

Now this doesn’t mean never push far point. There are plenty of good reasons to do so. Just don’t do it on the opener when it will cost your team both mid-point and 3 lives and gain nothing.

If someone is pushing far (and I’m not saying it’s a bad thing), the person who caps close is the idiot not going to the mid fight, not the one who is pushing far.
And I doubt you will lose the mid fight sooner than the person at far, maybe if you are 3 glass cannons at mid. Usually the people rushing far will prevent their cap and so you should get a pretty decent lead, if you can just hold the mid until the home point capper gets mid (which shouldn’t really be that hard).

Of course it puts your team in a really bad situation if you lose the 1v1 at far, but if you win it, you can go quickly to reinforce the 4v4 mid fight and outnumber them there. That way you might get a three cap. It’s a high risk high reward game. If you lose it, you will most likely lose mid and got a chance of losing close as well, if you don’t keep your eyes open.

Imo there’s nothing wrong with people pushing far. The problem only exists if the person pushing far can’t win the 1v1.

Dee Jay.2460:

Why?

Because let’s assume you do actually manage to take our their fairly bunkerish far point holder (which should take a minute or so).

In the mean time your friends are fighting 3vs.4 at mid and probably losing. .

Im sorry but im not following the math here..Arent 5 people in your team ?
If the person at close is sitting there for no reason then he is the 1 to blame.Also by you being at far and keeping their close defender there (assuming neutral point) means your close defender can move to mid and then you have the advantage of an equal fight and 1 extra capped node.
I used to get kittened off too about losing fights cause we were outnumbered.But thats not about pushing far ..its about 1 guy doing WHATEVER thats not beneficial to the team.
Also going for a 2 cap strategy and keeping it through the whole match is obviously a lot less beneficial than going for a 3 cap strat and executing it right.
So..there are 2 options as i see it
1)Everybody starts playing like infants and goes for a 2 cap all the time
2)People learn the game and do the far point push right.No afkers at close.No pointless far assaults.No stupid resource management
I personally dont like it when people isnist that 1 is the best option in general ( i know your topic was about the opener btw,just sayng :P )

Lastly even if you do cause an outnumbered fight at mid..some comps can take it. If your team is tanky and can sustain you got way more room to gain points by these invades..and you should do this at this case.Its just better

Im sorry to hear you dont understand Tpvp at all. Pushing far is the easiest way for a good player to carry his team. The fact that you lost nine games in a row says something on its own about your skill lvl. Sorry to hear you dont understand… Please dont rage on these forums when you are so clueless
Thanks Backpack

Pushing far is situationally useful and as an opener can be worth it if you can delay the cap long enough without sacrificing the mid fight (depending on the map). Problem is, the vast majority of people don’t grasp conquest strategy and make stupid decisions like pushing far at completely wrong times.

So in general, unless you really know what you’re doing and have good map and game awareness, I would agree.

Nabbo.2845:

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

Like This?

Guild Wars 2 – Team rotation guide – Forest of niflhel
http://youtu.be/ZczwwJFVcMI

I love people who cant do basic math…

Can we rename this thread stop afking on home?

GG

ELephantitas

There is nothing wrong with pushing far and having the home point defender abandoning home to help the mid fight. Even if the person pushing far loses the 1v1, they delayed the enemy home cap which is still beneficial.

I only go far at begin to steal animal…. is it ok, senpai?

The OP is right as a general rule. In order for it to work, either:

1) your near bunker has to be able to get to mid fast and your far runner has to be able to hold his own against their near bunker

or

2) You have 3 bunker-y players going to mid

or

3) You’re just going to ninja boss.

Well, yes, and no. The person home should reinforce mid if far gets de-capped. The issue is that a lot of players who push far…are just bad and can’t cap/de-cap it, which leads to the issue you addressed. That being said, you should always push from home to mid unless you KNOW they are going to have a respawn very soon. It makes zero sense to AFK home unless they are actively trying to backcap.

but if everybody pushes far, then it won’t be 3v4 at mid! it’ll be 3v3!

don’t really have problem with people pushing far in opener. I do get annoyed when people get greedy and push far when you control 2 pts.

Lol for people defending far point. The point is that that person usually pushing far point doesn’t tell his team and so everyone thinks the default thing to do is home and mid. Its not the person going homes fault, its the far point assaulter who has a 50/50 chance of winning that fight compared to an almost 100% certainty to get home. We are talking about pugs here not organized teams. I always ask what the plan is prior to the match and usually nobody responds and some fool goes to far point and loses his fight while splitting the team 3 ways almost guarunteeing mid lost as well since they are outnumbered. Like I said this is pugs so the default idea for a pug is one home rest mid unless you actually talk to your team prior to the match in which it rarely happens to get everyone to respond especially the person who ddecides to go far because he thinks he’s that good.

@OP:

It really comes down to whether someone can win the 1v1 or not. If they are great at it, push far. If they are not, don’t.

it’s obviously good when you “can” win 1 v 1 on far point

but tbh bro… in pug group spvp, tpvp 80-90% of them don’t win

style.6173:

@OP:

It really comes down to whether someone can win the 1v1 or not. If they are great at it, push far. If they are not, don’t.

Yeah but even if they win they can’t hold it because their team just wiped at mid, who then send 2 people home to clear you out.

Holding far point for 30 seconds isn’t worth losing mid over, especially not considering how easy it becomes for the enemy team to shift points.

Dee Jay.2460:

style.6173:

@OP:

It really comes down to whether someone can win the 1v1 or not. If they are great at it, push far. If they are not, don’t.

Yeah but even if they win they can’t hold it because their team just wiped at mid, who then send 2 people home to clear you out.

Holding far point for 30 seconds isn’t worth losing mid over, especially not considering how easy it becomes for the enemy team to shift points.

Why would their team wipe at mid? The player from home pulls to mid and it’s an even fight.

Harbinger.8637:

Dee Jay.2460:

style.6173:

@OP:

It really comes down to whether someone can win the 1v1 or not. If they are great at it, push far. If they are not, don’t.

Yeah but even if they win they can’t hold it because their team just wiped at mid, who then send 2 people home to clear you out.

Holding far point for 30 seconds isn’t worth losing mid over, especially not considering how easy it becomes for the enemy team to shift points.

Why would their team wipe at mid? The player from home pulls to mid and it’s an even fight.

After its already been 3v4 for that long? Naw. Most of the time by the time home point gets to mid its been too long already and the HP pools of your team vs there’s is then the disadvantage since your team will now be playing more defensively rather than offensively and most likely have blown their CD’s already.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Nabbo.2845:

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

Like This?

Guild Wars 2 – Team rotation guide – Forest of niflhel
http://youtu.be/ZczwwJFVcMI

I just rewatched this video. I don’t think this will help new players much. The main point of the video is “… if this happens, tell your team… communicate to your team… ask your team.”

Not gonna happen in Solo Queue. If people ping the map there, they’re highly communicative.

So I’m not sure, this is really that helpful to a new player.

JinDaVikk.7291:

I love people who cant do basic math…

Can we rename this thread stop afking on home?

GG

ELephantitas

this^ this^ this^ this^ this^

some of these bad pugs tends to be smarter than you realizing there are no bunkers in his team and they have, thus he goes for the best vulnerable base which is far.

kai.4629:

don’t really have problem with people pushing far in opener. I do get annoyed when people get greedy and push far when you control 2 pts.

After taking two points, the standard fair is to have everyone push far and one guy sit on mid. Preferably, this guy is tanky and, in general, good in 1v1’s. All other players, including your spirit ranger and your bunker/support guardian, should be pushing far. While pushing far, you should have eyes on where the opposing team is at all times. This allows you to respond to any counter pressure on your home node because you have a guy sitting on mid that can easily adjust to the situation at hand as he has a leg-up on anyone trying to be a sneaky snake.

Above all, you simply cannot get a safe win by just holding two points. It’s not possible to snowball in this way. You need to put some pressure on far node.

Dee Jay.2460:

Ok, I’ve rellay had the worst of PvP afternoons again because of the same old bullkitten.

And I’ve just about had it.

9 consecutive losses now because of the same bullcrap. And I mostly blame Thieves.

Unless you have a decap Engi or are on Voice-Com/have some other refined strategy there is exactly one viable way to open the game.

And that’s 1 guy close (preferably something fairly tanky and good at 1v1).
The rest goes Mid, asap.

That includes Thieves and any other class that insists they are some sort of 1v1 hero and absolutely must push far.

Why?

Because let’s assume you do actually manage to take our their fairly bunkerish far point holder (which should take a minute or so).

In the mean time your friends are fighting 3vs.4 at mid and probably losing. They get killed off 1 by 1, giving your enemies 5 points each and forcing them to respawn. Now the situation cascades as your allies run back to mid (or wherever the action is) to a point camped by 3 players…and again get zerged down (because who waits for their allies to respawn in Pugs?)

Meanwhile the 4 enemies who got mid will probably have dispatched someone to assist far and kill whoever is left there.

And at that point you’re probably already 100 points behind and the enemy is sitting on two points and has an easy time shifting from one point to anther.

There you go, your inflated ego that caused you to push far point has lost your team the game. You should be proud.

Now this doesn’t mean never push far point. There are plenty of good reasons to do so. Just don’t do it on the opener when it will cost your team both mid-point and 3 lives and gain nothing.

3v4? If you can’t survive long enough before a potential close point holder on your team has gotten on mid to 4 v 4, the team isnt worth playing in. I push far or close point mainly, because I will win all the 1 v 1’s, atleast in solo q. I’m sorry if someone goes out and suicide instantly. (:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

OIIIIIO.7825:

Nabbo.2845:

Someone needs to implement an instructional videos (discussing strategies and such) for noobs entering tPvP for the first time. And they should be forced to watch it.

Like This?

Guild Wars 2 – Team rotation guide – Forest of niflhel
http://youtu.be/ZczwwJFVcMI

I just rewatched this video. I don’t think this will help new players much. The main point of the video is “… if this happens, tell your team… communicate to your team… ask your team.”

Not gonna happen in Solo Queue. If people ping the map there, they’re highly communicative.

So I’m not sure, this is really that helpful to a new player.

Just bake it in with the tutorial to give players an idea of how it works. Geesh, can’t be that hard for the team to put something up like that.

sPvP feels like it’s still in alpha mode

@AlbertoUlkesh.4517
It is an older video, I wanted to point out that there are sources for information on how to play the various maps. I could search for others, but then so can the people who need these.

@OIIIIIO.7825
Well, yes, but…
This one is linked in the sticky, so it’s what a new person would find and then be confused about things not working that way for him.
Also a new player can’t differentiate between helpful for him videos and others, which are more helpful to more experienced players.
It would help, if there was a clear list of videos/infos “for beginners” “for Solo Q” “for TeamQ”.

@AlbertoUlkesh.4517
Lets try not to derail this thread any further. I have other thoughts I could share with you on this topic but this isn’t the place for it.

If you would like to discuss it, building a video repository of helpful (Solo / Team Queue) Play that could be an option. Possibly make a playlist on youtube and share it of other videos that exist. GL

Dee Jay.2460:

style.6173:

@OP:

It really comes down to whether someone can win the 1v1 or not. If they are great at it, push far. If they are not, don’t.

Yeah but even if they win they can’t hold it because their team just wiped at mid, who then send 2 people home to clear you out.

Holding far point for 30 seconds isn’t worth losing mid over, especially not considering how easy it becomes for the enemy team to shift points.

Remember that it is not always smart to go for mid in a solo queue. You have to take team composition into account. Even more frustrating that someone losing far is a team that 1 by 1 runs into mid and gets slaughtered.