Guild Wars 2

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

It isn’t just the max gear, I really think that that a large number of the supporters of more mass combat really are saying that they want a change to have a numbers advantage as well as a change for gear advantage.

GvG in Guild Wars 1 had a limit of 8 people per team.
With normalized stats so that everyone was on an even ground.

People are often referring to GW1 GvG as one of the best PvP-modes of all times.

Bran.7425:

It isn’t just the max gear, I really think that that a large number of the supporters of more mass combat really are saying that they want a change to have a numbers advantage as well as a change for gear advantage.

There is no numbers advantage in a GvG. WvW also allows for much more fine tuning of stats than PvP does. This is why many would prefer GvG be available outside of PvP.

GvGs also tend to be larger than 10v10 on occasion. Most of ours have been 15v15 for example. I’ve even done a few 20v20.

How can 5 people represent a 20-30 man guild?

Edit: I’m saying there should be different player size brackets. That way all size guilds can be represented.

Tricare.2946:

snip

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

It’s completly opposite. Requiring low numbers mean: ANY Guild can compete, when requiring larger numbers would exclude majority of small and medium sized Guilds.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

You’re wrong. Having sPvP gear and stats it’s reason why sPvP has any sense. More or less gear overall in GW2 isn’t balanced, thats why it got limited in sPvP… to make game more balanced and exclude some PvE stuff from PvP.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work.

There is no single reason. You just believe GW1 GvG will fail, when it was the thing that made GW1 so succesful in PvP and it was also the reason why many of us bought GW2 and finally it will be implemented…

Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

I hope they won’t. WvW is horrible and unbalanced sandbox, which unlike sPvP has nothing with competition.

Tricare.2946:

How can 5 people represent a 20-30 man guild?

How can 20-30 people represent 5 man guild?

5 people can represent a guild of 200+ people
but you will never find 6 people to represent a 5 men guild

get it?

Stronghold is a pvp gamemode. It’s not a WvW mode or your DM interpretation of GvG.
There are other threads already discussing the semantics of GvG. Because that’s what it is and what it’ll ever be.
They should allow deathmatches in Guild Halls and be done with it. Then the WvW crowd can stop kittening.

5 man guilds don’t need a GvG environment because they already have access to custom arenas to fight in.

10v10 is at least moving in the right direction and many GvGs occur at this player limit. As long as there are official ‘rounds’ to ensure matches are reset and stacks are lost, this could work. Though a lot people don’t enjoy the PvP environment because it’s such a huge disconnect from the rest of the game.

15v15 would be nice if offered though. It would be great if this new GvG map was large enough to accomodate 15v15 even if the only way to do a real 15v15 was using the custom arena map system as opposed to the official GvG game mode.

Nope cuz it is not appropriate to esporzz, 15vs15 will never be taken seriously, even 8vs8 is hardly understandable for ppl who don’t play gw2 / beginners.

1. AoE heals and damage is tied up with 5 man mode, maybe with the exception of things like Meteor Shower.

2. It’s eassier to commentate on less players and their individual skill is more visible.

3. Less people means more possible teams.

4. The game is being balanced around 5-man.

5. Since it’s two lanes, there is a possibility for more interesting splits and small skirmishes around the map with 5v5 than 15v15.

6. Smaller combat means less lag and crap flying around.

MrKrataus.6420:

Nope cuz it is not appropriate to esporzz, 15vs15 will never be taken seriously, even 8vs8 is hardly understandable for ppl who don’t play gw2 / beginners.

That’s a problem with the game overall though. Even watching 5v5 is too much to commentate on and only specific fights involving 1v1 or 2v2 are ever shown at one time.

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

You’ve no business here in the PvP forum.

Rym.1469:

2. It’s eassier to commentate on less players and their individual skill is more visible.
.

This right here is one of the big reasons it’s going to exclude lots of people yet again.

Individual skill.

If I’m in a 10-20 man guild, I’m only going to want my 5 best players to play. I don’t want to lose any matches.

How is your individual skill representing a guild achievement?

It won’t be a guild win with 5 people, it will be a team win. They should make a game mode for team queues….. Oh wait….

or every guild can get lot of teams, so larger guilds will have 3 or 4 teams, and they will share the wins and the losses of the guild they represent.

Ye like team A team B etc, still if the leaderboard work it will be rules by pvp players.

There is only few players in top WvW guilds who have the lvl to compete at a high lvl of pvp, I can count them on my both hands.

GvG in GW 1 was 8v8 with normalized gear/stats, and my gut tells me that is what ANET is going for with Stronghold.

This whole thread is the wvw community not understanding that in competitive pvp (even in live sports) you don’t have a huge amount of players actively participating on 1 team for numerous reasons. Hard to spectate, too much happens to comprehend, difficulty in coordinating, the feeling of a strong individual performance is diminished if not completely eliminated.

It’s also partly Colin’s fault for not being clear that when he says best Guild, historically for ArenaNet in competitive play that means 8 man team scenarios. That doesn’t mean Stronghold is 8 man as party sizes are currently 5 obviously, but it doesn’t mean it’s 5 or less either.

If the WvW death match scene is looking for some kind of official leader board, this is not it. Stronghold is for competitive Pvpers that play objective type games.

ArenaNet has chosen not to invest in death match heavily. But if you wish to participate in it you do the 15v15/20v20s in wvw or do 10v10 death match or smaller in Courtyard custom arenas.

Sorry that Anet does objective based PvP, and doesn’t have leader boards for death match, but that’s the choice they’ve made.

Feel free to let them know you want more officially supported death match, but stop hating on objective based competitive pvp please.

Serdoc.7261:

GvG in GW 1 was 8v8 with normalized gear/stats, and my gut tells me that is what ANET is going for with Stronghold.

Weren’t groups in GW1 just 4 players though? So it was effectively 2 groups? So 10v10?

Atherakhia.4086:

Serdoc.7261:

GvG in GW 1 was 8v8 with normalized gear/stats, and my gut tells me that is what ANET is going for with Stronghold.

Weren’t groups in GW1 just 4 players though? So it was effectively 2 groups? So 10v10?

I was just guessing / going with my gut

Either way, I don’t think we know enough yet to make blanket statements like the op is doing. Maybe it will not fail, and be a huge success!

Atherakhia.4086:

Serdoc.7261:

GvG in GW 1 was 8v8 with normalized gear/stats, and my gut tells me that is what ANET is going for with Stronghold.

Weren’t groups in GW1 just 4 players though? So it was effectively 2 groups? So 10v10?

No and yes. Party size varied in PvP and PvE depending on game modes and areas. gvg in gw1 was 8 man parties.

There were two zones in PvE that allowed for 12 man parties.

There was 1 mission in gw1 factions that had 2 8 man parties that would start in separate parts of the mission and join halfway through.

Atherakhia.4086:

That’s a problem with the game overall though. Even watching 5v5 is too much to commentate on and only specific fights involving 1v1 or 2v2 are ever shown at one time.

It is a problem made worse in “GvG” with 30 or 40 players on screen (half of them stacked in a ball).

There are also numerous other problems with “GvG”, such as many of the games mechanics are pretty much broken in it, because they were designed around tPvP, such as the ridiculous boon spamming/AOE healing/AOE condi clear in the melee ball, which renders damaging conditions pretty useless, makes a joke of hard CC when you have stability up 70% of the time covered by 4+ boons, etc.

Same thing for animations, sometimes when I play WvW I play on axe warrior, you know how many people (including from said “GvG” guilds) dodge my eviscerate when I am near/in the melee ball, none, because they can’t see the animation, a key part of this game is dumbed down to “avoid the wells”, etc in “GvG”, dumbed down in fact describes “GvG” pretty well, a game mode where on my warrior or guard, I don;t even need to think about my positioning, my “driver” does it for me.

But beyond all that, there is the balance which is beyond terrible, you really think they are going to make a game mode when 25% of the classes do not exist in it (rangers/engy) and another 25% are barely represented (mes/thief).

What wvwers call GvG is incredibly fun.

However, once you try to constrain it into a game mode, then it becomes casual unfriendly. Guild wars 1 was very casual unfriendly. If they do the same practice-play-compete model that they have for SPvp, then the mode should be fine, regardless of whether it is 5 or 20 players.

zinkz.7045:

Atherakhia.4086:

That’s a problem with the game overall though. Even watching 5v5 is too much to commentate on and only specific fights involving 1v1 or 2v2 are ever shown at one time.

It is a problem made worse in “GvG” with 30 or 40 players on screen (half of them stacked in a ball).

There are also numerous other problems with “GvG”, such as many of the games mechanics are pretty much broken in it, because they were designed around tPvP, such as the ridiculous boon spamming/AOE healing/AOE condi clear in the melee ball, which renders damaging conditions pretty useless, makes a joke of hard CC when you have stability up 70% of the time covered by 4+ boons, etc.

Same thing for animations, sometimes when I play WvW I play on axe warrior, you know how many people (including from said “GvG” guilds) dodge my eviscerate when I am near/in the melee ball, none, because they can’t see the animation, a key part of this game is dumbed down to “avoid the wells”, etc in “GvG”, dumbed down in fact describes “GvG” pretty well, a game mode where on my warrior or guard, I don;t even need to think about my positioning, my “driver” does it for me.

But beyond all that, there is the balance which is beyond terrible, you really think they are going to make a game mode when 25% of the classes do not exist in it (rangers/engy) and another 25% are barely represented (mes/thief).

So much this. Pretty much covers it.

Don’t forget that WvW guys don’t GvG that much, they GVG one or 2 nights (45min – 1h) in the whole week, you really think they will create a game mode that people will play 2-3 times a week ?

zinkz.7045:

Atherakhia.4086:

That’s a problem with the game overall though. Even watching 5v5 is too much to commentate on and only specific fights involving 1v1 or 2v2 are ever shown at one time.

It is a problem made worse in “GvG” with 30 or 40 players on screen (half of them stacked in a ball).

There are also numerous other problems with “GvG”, such as many of the games mechanics are pretty much broken in it, because they were designed around tPvP, such as the ridiculous boon spamming/AOE healing/AOE condi clear in the melee ball, which renders damaging conditions pretty useless, makes a joke of hard CC when you have stability up 70% of the time covered by 4+ boons, etc.

Same thing for animations, sometimes when I play WvW I play on axe warrior, you know how many people (including from said “GvG” guilds) dodge my eviscerate when I am near/in the melee ball, none, because they can’t see the animation, a key part of this game is dumbed down to “avoid the wells”, etc in “GvG”, dumbed down in fact describes “GvG” pretty well, a game mode where on my warrior or guard, I don;t even need to think about my positioning, my “driver” does it for me.

But beyond all that, there is the balance which is beyond terrible, you really think they are going to make a game mode when 25% of the classes do not exist in it (rangers/engy) and another 25% are barely represented (mes/thief).

Things don’t seem that different when you look at the tournaments either. 4 or 5 classes make up the overwhelming majority of classes while the remaining 4 classes make up 10% of the overall players?

This all said, I’m in agreement with much of what you all are bringing up. I’m just not seeing 5v5 conquest being that much better off with such poor balance, poor telegraphs, and poor simulcasting.

I think what players want is for the Stronghold mode, whatever it is, to not be at all associated with GvG at all and for ANet to show even an ounce of effort into the WvW gamemode they pretend to support and give players something they’ve been asking for, for about 2 years now. Instead of more of nothing that they’ve received since launch.

more than 5 people per team just dont work in this game and even with 5 people per team its often very hard to see whats going on

game design in gw2 is made to give you all info you need with “character-animations” only and for most people its hard to even see everthing with more than 2 characters on screen

oh and i dont talk bout twitch viewers – its hard to see whats going on for the player

and with more than 5 players it just would be a clusterkitten with spamming buttons all on a target – can´t call this pvp

This argument about not being able to see anything is kind of bad. If you have trouble figuring out what’s happening that’s user error.

If you’re talking about spectators then that’s even worse. Why would you even consider balancing a game around outside spectators.

Stop it with your esports. It won’t happen.

Tricare.2946:

This argument about not being able to see anything is kind of bad. If you have trouble figuring out what’s happening that’s user error.

If you’re talking about spectators then that’s even worse. Why would you even consider balancing a game around outside spectators.

Stop it with your esports. It won’t happen.

Can’t tell if trolling or just..eh..

Besides arguing with idiotic things like “wvw is better cuz it has gear progression” you also mention that if you have trouble figuring out animations in large scale fights it’s player error. As the hardcore wvw-er you seem to be you should know that in GvG people don’t dodge animations but dodge together, double dodge etc.

That’s because it’s impossible to dodge more than 1 telegraph reliably, 2 if you are lucky. It’s not possible to dodge 10-20 telegraphs, if not by limtations caused by the human brain(can’t register so many actions) but by limtations of endurance.

Your zerg vs zerg is already considered a joke by many and that’s why it gets no support/popularity. Many skills are capped to 5 targets(yes, exceptions exist but they are rare), the stability spam and condi cleanse spam renders a lot of things useless including some classes and many builds and to be honest it’s all a big clusterkitten with some extra lag for good measure.

If this GvG, stronghold or whatever it’s called will be good it can only be in a spvp environment with normalized stats and objectives/mechanics that require coordinated splits.

So many things that you don’t understand about large scale fights. But I’ll stick with small scale anyways.

The reason you guys can’t figure out what’s happening or skills that are going off is because you are standing in a small circle where everything is being dropped.

I roam and the way we win 2v6 or 3v6 fights is we bring them to open areas or we engage in places that give us advantage. We don’t stand in one circle and hope we kill them before they kill us

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

I’m not in sPvP because i don’t like conquest, i’m also not in WvW. But now i will play Stronghold if it’s 5v5. I think it can be a more successful e-sport than conquest.

Tricare.2946:

Rym.1469:

2. It’s eassier to commentate on less players and their individual skill is more visible.
.

This right here is one of the big reasons it’s going to exclude lots of people yet again.

Individual skill.

If I’m in a 10-20 man guild, I’m only going to want my 5 best players to play. I don’t want to lose any matches.

How is your individual skill representing a guild achievement?

This isn’t deciding the best guild, but the strongest, and by that means the guild with the strongest PvPers. Let’s assume Stronghold will be 8v8[for various reasons, but that’s another discussion]. Large guilds have numerous advantages on in this now: They have a larger pool of players to make numerous teams with which will all work individually to contribute to the guild’s LB ranking. The second is having a larger pool of players to which they can find strong PvPers, meaning more likely to create stronger teams. This alone is enough of an advantage for large guilds.

A guild is a group of individuals that come together to help improve their individual skill or their team work. A zerg is not a team, it is a blob. Do not confuse telling a blob what to do with team work.

Now, large guilds have their own advantages, but so do small guilds that have learned to work well together. This creates the balance that the massiveness of large guilds can overwhelm with numerous teams, but can also dilute individual skill while small guilds can learn to excel on an individual level. This balance, however, is still very tilted to large guilds, but doesn’t make it impossible for small to medium guilds. Do you have a problem with this, and if so please state why you think it’s unfair that small guilds have a chance to compete fairly on the Leaderboards?

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

Did they say that it is exactly 5v5? I don’t remember seeing that on the livestream. Did they make any post about that? I am hoping it is 8v8 or 10v10

Where is your source saying it is 5 v 5?

xDudisx.5914:

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

Did they say that it is exactly 5v5? I don’t remember seeing that on the livestream. Did they make any post about that? I am hoping it is 8v8 or 10v10

Nobody knows, some might have strong opinions on what it should be or must be, though.

My opinion is that even though the most pure form of GvG was the original 8v8 content in GW1, however, to keep sPvP compatibility between modes/maps I’d lean towards betting Arenanet will opt for a 5v5 in the upcoming Stronghold game.

Other games that shall not be named have had a different number of combatants on each side for various game modes, both competitive and casual, so who’s really to say 8v8 is unlikely?

We’ll know soon enough! I think the revealed the Stronghold beta was starting in six weeks from the announcement? Correct me if I’m wrong.

I would guess it is ether 5v5 or 8v8. However 5v5 is the most likely case since anet once said they like a group size of 5 people the most.

Simon.3794:

5 people can represent a guild of 200+ people
but you will never find 6 people to represent a 5 men guild

get it?

I dont really consider 5 people a guild, I consider that a team under a name.

Also, its better to get a bunch of people together than it is to get a few people together.

I see 10, 15, 20 people a reachable and easily maintained number for fights.

More people that play together (in an actual guild/party, not solo que with other randoms and play many games with the same people, not a random pug), the better the community is, the more fun they are having.

There should be a thing in this game that promotes that, like friendship. If you play with friends you get bonus like +10% reward track, +10% gold, +25% mf, etc. max. Should judge your friendship. Should make something like friendship grinding, keep playing with friends and see how far you can make your friendship go (have something to measure it).

This is an MMORPG, needs to promote people playing together and not bunch of solo que’ers, they can go play single player games. I dont mind people solo queing every now and then, but if they have a friend on, there really should be incentives that make them play together.

Stronghold needs to be more than 5 people, should be 8 minimal. Should get more points based on larger fights like 20 v 20, to promote larger battles because they obviously require more thinking and strategy due to larger amount of people.

Anything more than 20 I see hard time having 21+ people actively engaged in something and not being interrupted, unless its full of hardcore players. Safe to stay 8-20 range.

Hey Tricare, I see you are as positive as always

The traditional GvGs in WvW already exist in WvW… whether that’s 3v3s – 5v5s or 20v20s … and there’s no reason to re-invent the wheel and make a whole other mode for a deathmatch. I think this gamemode will actually be really interesting and fun, whether it’s 5v5 or 10v10, even 15v15. If the numbers go above 5 though, I’m pretty sure zerging won’t be encouraged. Instead I think you would have to split your team into smaller teams, each with a separate objective they have to tri to take care of (tri…care… get it? ). So let’s say you had a match of 10v10. You can easily imagine putting 5 people to hold / attack one objective (with a specific team composition) while the other team protects / attacks another, all the while you are on TS coordinating, etc. So the spectators can easily hop between the “mini-battles” in the match and see how it all plays out in the bigger picture. It would really put your guild to the test, not only mechanically but tactically as well, and that sounds really awesome
They did say that the match would be as fun to play as it would be to watch.. and I think a flat-out zerg of 20v20 is not really what they had in mind.

uberkingkong.8041:

Simon.3794:

5 people can represent a guild of 200+ people
but you will never find 6 people to represent a 5 men guild

get it?

I dont really consider 5 people a guild, I consider that a team under a name.

Also, its better to get a bunch of people together than it is to get a few people together.

I see 10, 15, 20 people a reachable and easily maintained number for fights.

More people that play together (in an actual guild/party, not solo que with other randoms and play many games with the same people, not a random pug), the better the community is, the more fun they are having.

There should be a thing in this game that promotes that, like friendship. If you play with friends you get bonus like +10% reward track, +10% gold, +25% mf, etc. max. Should judge your friendship. Should make something like friendship grinding, keep playing with friends and see how far you can make your friendship go (have something to measure it).

This is an MMORPG, needs to promote people playing together and not bunch of solo que’ers, they can go play single player games. I dont mind people solo queing every now and then, but if they have a friend on, there really should be incentives that make them play together.

Stronghold needs to be more than 5 people, should be 8 minimal. Should get more points based on larger fights like 20 v 20, to promote larger battles because they obviously require more thinking and strategy due to larger amount of people.

Anything more than 20 I see hard time having 21+ people actively engaged in something and not being interrupted, unless its full of hardcore players. Safe to stay 8-20 range.

Your game mode you are describing is for a different target than competitive pvpers.

I would challenge you to find any successful competitive PvP game or even live sport where there are 15+ players of the same team actively on a playing field.

MethaneGas.8357:

Hey Tricare, I see you are as positive as always

The traditional GvGs in WvW already exist in WvW… whether that’s 3v3s – 5v5s or 20v20s … and there’s no reason to re-invent the wheel and make a whole other mode for a deathmatch. I think this gamemode will actually be really interesting and fun, whether it’s 5v5 or 10v10, even 15v15. If the numbers go above 5 though, I’m pretty sure zerging won’t be encouraged. Instead I think you would have to split your team into smaller teams, each with a separate objective they have to tri to take care of (tri…care… get it? ). So let’s say you had a match of 10v10. You can easily imagine putting 5 people to hold / attack one objective (with a specific team composition) while the other team protects / attacks another, all the while you are on TS coordinating, etc. So the spectators can easily hop between the “mini-battles” in the match and see how it all plays out in the bigger picture. It would really put your guild to the test, not only mechanically but tactically as well, and that sounds really awesome
They did say that the match would be as fun to play as it would be to watch.. and I think a flat-out zerg of 20v20 is not really what they had in mind.

Hey! We agree on something haha! My biggest issue with it would/will be if it’s just 5’s.

I can live spvp stats and such, I just think they should add in a way to change the settings of the match. Use WvW stats or Spvp stats. /shrug

Shockwave.1230:

uberkingkong.8041:

Simon.3794:

5 people can represent a guild of 200+ people
but you will never find 6 people to represent a 5 men guild

get it?

I dont really consider 5 people a guild, I consider that a team under a name.

Also, its better to get a bunch of people together than it is to get a few people together.

I see 10, 15, 20 people a reachable and easily maintained number for fights.

More people that play together (in an actual guild/party, not solo que with other randoms and play many games with the same people, not a random pug), the better the community is, the more fun they are having.

There should be a thing in this game that promotes that, like friendship. If you play with friends you get bonus like +10% reward track, +10% gold, +25% mf, etc. max. Should judge your friendship. Should make something like friendship grinding, keep playing with friends and see how far you can make your friendship go (have something to measure it).

This is an MMORPG, needs to promote people playing together and not bunch of solo que’ers, they can go play single player games. I dont mind people solo queing every now and then, but if they have a friend on, there really should be incentives that make them play together.

Stronghold needs to be more than 5 people, should be 8 minimal. Should get more points based on larger fights like 20 v 20, to promote larger battles because they obviously require more thinking and strategy due to larger amount of people.

Anything more than 20 I see hard time having 21+ people actively engaged in something and not being interrupted, unless its full of hardcore players. Safe to stay 8-20 range.

Your game mode you are describing is for a different target than competitive pvpers.

I would challenge you to find any successful competitive PvP game or even live sport where there are 15+ players of the same team actively on a playing field.

GW2 is what really started the WvW movment, you see other games trying to manipulate it.

Just because another game hasnt done it yet, doesnt mean all other games should follow what the current standards are.

Also, FPS games can run with massive players going at each other.
You have to realize that this mode, is GvG or thats what I’m assuming. It isnt no standard PvP. We already have standard PvP. If they making a GvG leaderboard than it pertains to guilds, and lemme tell you, theres a lot of big guilds out there.

Just because you stick with the 5% of the GW2 population which is PvP doesnt mean you know about the rest of the 95%.

Just because teams/some people consider guilds like Abjured is pretty much 5 man team, doesnt mean all teams should hold there standard of 5 man team and therefore GvG be based on 5 man team. Theres a heck of a lot of WvW ‘real guilds’ that host a huge number of players, more WvW guilds than PvP tiny 5-12 team guilds.

More WvW massive guilds than tiny 5-12 PvP team guilds (or actual guilds).
Shows how small this PvP population is and how people dont play together, cant even have more guilds that PvP than compared to massive 100+ people guilds that WvW is just sad.

Stop looking narrow minded and look at the big picture. 8 – 20 teams for this GvG mode is what I believe in, and believe should happen.

I’m pretty sure Anet simply wanted “player skill” to be a factor in their new competitive game mode.

Rym.1469:

4. The game is being balanced around 5-man.

He said balance. I guess that means he was kidding.

Reikou.7068:

I’m pretty sure Anet simply wanted “player skill” to be a factor in their new competitive game mode.

If they did, they would have nerfed turret engi a long time ago.

Lemme ask you something, how many PvP guilds do you know of?
Now, how many WvW guilds could you easily become aware of?
Also, of those WvW guilds, how many players are they consisted of.

I hardly know of any active PvP guilds, pretty much Abjured and GASM, I know other great players are in other guilds, like Radioactive, but how many people that dont come to the forums do you think would know radioactive or whatever guild caed plays in?

Now goto WvW and ask there playerbase about there guilds. I’m sure youll get a list of active guilds, I can already think of a bunch for my server, a real server, hardly any transfers and #1, the Jade Quarry server.

Do you think they should focus this GvG on the tiny guild population of PvP…. Or the massive guild population that WvW and PvE has?

Obviously they should focus on the biggest guild population which really isnt tiny 5 team, hardly any guilds PvP population.

Doesnt matter if its in PvP, this is guild based, you look at guild data not what a solo queing PvP’er wants. (yes most yall solo queing, because I hardly even know of any active PvP guilds, hardly even see any guilds in PvP let alone itself.

If this mode is intended for GvG, than you look at what guilds want. Not what PvP’ers want.

uberkingkong.8041:

Lemme ask you something, how many PvP guilds do you know of?
Now, how many WvW guilds could you easily become aware of?
Also, of those WvW guilds, how many players are they consisted of.

I hardly know of any active PvP guilds, pretty much Abjured and GASM, I know other great players are in other guilds, like Radioactive, but how many people that dont come to the forums do you think would know radioactive or whatever guild caed plays in?

Now goto WvW and ask there playerbase about there guilds. I’m sure youll get a list of active guilds, I can already think of a bunch for my server, a real server, hardly any transfers and #1, the Jade Quarry server.

Do you think they should focus this GvG on the tiny guild population of PvP…. Or the massive guild population that WvW and PvE has?

Obviously they should focus on the biggest guild population which really isnt tiny 5 team, hardly any guilds PvP population.

Doesnt matter if its in PvP, this is guild based, you look at guild data not what a solo queing PvP’er wants. (yes most yall solo queing, because I hardly even know of any active PvP guilds, hardly even see any guilds in PvP let alone itself.

If this mode is intended for GvG, than you look at what guilds want. Not what PvP’ers want.

Good description of the situation. We have a very very small fraction of the playerbase that wannabe esport and a much larger fraction that want a guild pvp,

This topic is troll and should be deleted.

Literally some WvW guys talking about sPvP. You’re getting a new borderland, dude. Leave our game mode alone and stop complaining before you’ve even heard a single word about it.

Since we have virtually no information on this new mode, what if it’s a game type that allows for 15v15, but encourages them to split up into smaller groups. Consider the new world boss in the silver wastes: there are 3 lanes that different groups have to split into to beat different champions with different mechanics. Now in this stronghold game mode, sure you might be able to zerg the middle with the whole team, but there might be mechanics that make that tactically stupid (Like sending all 5 to mid in spvp). Before we keep arguing about speculation, maybe we should wait for information.

Consider the following also, what if you could change the size of the match based upon an agreement between guild leaders before the match.

(Pretty much what methane gas was saying earlier)

That’s why I mentioned 8-20 and not just 15.
Also, its predicted this is GvG because they said something about Guild leaderboards.

GvG is something a lot of people have wanted for a long time, as with Guild halls. This new expansion is giving us what we wanted for a long time.

Those real guilds, do you think they expect a 5v5 guild battle? I highly doubt they do. Hence 5v5 is stupid.

Due to information already out, that guild leaderboards will be set into motion, I suspect this is GvG.

PvP and GvG was separate in GW1, so don’t go assuming that because its GvG it has to be PvP. Just like how WvW is different than PvP. Same concept, smash people, but different thought processes. Capture nodes, capture towers and keeps, GvG (kill lords?).

If kill lords I see it as this, you got your healer type classes around the lord while your dps and what not are attacking the enemy. Roamers killing stragglers and helping out with lord kills.
Should be awesome and I’m looking forward to it.