Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I’ve been hearing (still) a lot of issues with Mesmers, and to a far lesser stance thieves (who don’t particularly bother me at all). So I had an idea that would make it so you don’t have to change the core mechanics of either class or even nerf them, but people can fight them without the clunkiness.

Simply add a way to “hold target” while they’re invisible. This DOESN’T mean stealth is useless and you can’t see/attack them as per normal, everything would function the same, however now stealth would do what it’s intended to do (hide) without the frustration of having to spend much more time reselecting which ruins auto attack functionality, and makes AI clunky for pet classes. So in essence your screen will still have them targeted, but you can’t interact with them as you’d see in today’s gameplay, but when they re-appear they’d already be targeted if you had them targeted before they vanished.

Thoughts? Stealth would still be hiding and unable to use focus-attacks, it’d still be confusing, just a lot less frustrating and I think people would accept both classes a LOT more as just a class with a mechanic versus cheesy classes that rely on clunky mechanics to win.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

(edited by ronpierce.2760)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

Whenever the player went out of stealth, the target should re-appear, unless someone switched target to another player. That’s all.
Any thoughts?

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

As a thief I completely agree with this suggestion.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

That’s about the same premise, only difference is that the UI would reflect that you had them targeted, so yes.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Leuca.5732

Leuca.5732

Or they could just fix right click so that it doesn’t select a random target when I rotate my camera even when the mesmer isn’t stealthed. Not saying this is a problem exclusive to fighting mesmers, but they always have this advantage when it comes to messing with the targeting system.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Frellin.6318

Frellin.6318

It sounds terrible to me. Why?

1) Stealth is not immunity to damage. I have fought some very good players that continue to chase, attack, and do damage to my while I am in stealth.

2) Rapid attacks continue to damage their target while in stealth. For example a ranger can use their rapid fire arrow attack and hit me with direct damage.

3) Thieves are very squishy. I get focused by the enemy very quickly. Even if I am at range using a shortbow rangers, necros and anyone else with range weapons will immediately switch to me.

What you are suggesting will completely force thieves out of team fights. The thief comes into the fight and everyone targets him. Once stealth fades all of them are immediately back onto him. The only recourse the thief has is to go all glass cannon damage, jump in downing one person, and then running away from the team fight. He won’t even be able to stay on the fringe of the fight because the enemy will just push him away.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Not necessarily, if someone is hidden in team fights I’d venture to say unless under 20% hp people would still change targets rather than sit for 5-6 seconds waiting for you to be done shadow dancing and healing. At least that’d be my move. I think a lot less would change than you think, it’d just feel less clunky to play. You’re admitting you rely on the clunky mechanic of forced de-target in order to live. Maybe if that wasn’t a factor they could be improved in other ways to subset this change, if they found it neccessary.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

1) Stealth is not immunity to damage. I have fought some very good players that continue to chase, attack, and do damage to my while I am in stealth.

2) Rapid attacks continue to damage their target while in stealth. For example a ranger can use their rapid fire arrow attack and hit me with direct damage.

3) Thieves are very squishy. I get focused by the enemy very quickly. Even if I am at range using a shortbow rangers, necros and anyone else with range weapons will immediately switch to me.

1) I’ve seen some very good Thieves that aren’t dumb enough to make a predictable path while Stealthed, or stand inside AoE.

2) While this is true, that still requires the play to predict when you’re going to be stealthing.

3) False. Completely, utterly, false. Thieves have some of the highest mitigation in the game. Blind and Stealth being the top tier damage reduction capabilities. Combine that with their idiotic cleansing capabilities, and they’re practically immune to all forms of condition damage outside of HGH Engineer facerollery.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Nah, this is the main defense of thieves and mesmers. It should require the enemy to fire off a few brain cells in order to resume the fight. Otherwise stealth really isn’t doing anything.

Hell, the way things work right now with stealth I’d argue it should give endure pain for 1 second just so projectiles in transit don’t feed into the target after they stealth.

It’s sucks being on the receiving end of a mesmer or thief, I understand that. But until you’ve actually played these classes and seen just how fragile stealth is and how dependent the classes are on things like stealth, target dropping, and the like you simply don’t understand.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

3) False. Completely, utterly, false. Thieves have some of the highest mitigation in the game. Blind and Stealth being the top tier damage reduction capabilities. Combine that with their idiotic cleansing capabilities, and they’re practically immune to all forms of condition damage outside of HGH Engineer facerollery.

Have you ever played tournaments? The thieves are almost pure damage in tournaments, to do exactly what Frellin said; burst down an enemy in team fight, escape.
You almost never encounter a thief using cleansing traits and blinding on stealth, as this reduces a lot of the burst.

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I have to agree with Altroll on this, Thieves if made correctly really aren’t squishy… And also, it’s complete stealth, if you’re standing in a spot that you can predictably be hit that’s generally a player issue. Most people who see a stealther go into hiding they will either attack around them, or attack in a path following the direction they started hiding in. Anything beyond that would be sheer luck and not very likely.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I don’t see how anyone can argue that “deselect mechanic” is a proper mechanic for a defense in combat. Subset that in other actual combat ways, it has nothing to do with firing off some braincells to “resume” a fight, let the thief fire off a few braincells in be unpredictable with their stealth, but keep combat fluid. Nonfluid combat is clunky and very unfun to fight. Despite you thinking you’re squishy, even if it IS true, just for your sake of argument, it shouldn’t be subset by a deselect mechanic as a base of survivability.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

3) False. Completely, utterly, false. Thieves have some of the highest mitigation in the game. Blind and Stealth being the top tier damage reduction capabilities. Combine that with their idiotic cleansing capabilities, and they’re practically immune to all forms of condition damage outside of HGH Engineer facerollery.

Have you ever played tournaments? The thieves are almost pure damage in tournaments, to do exactly what Frellin said; burst down an enemy in team fight, escape.
You almost never encounter a thief using cleansing traits and blinding on stealth, as this reduces a lot of the burst.

Are you joking? At high level Tourney play I see Blinding Thieves all the kitten time. D/P, S/D, and P/D are incredibly strong when used properly. I have a Necromancer with 24k HP and no toughness that can act as a bunker for a long period of time simply because of Well of Darkness and Deathshroud. That’s not even 1/10th of what a Thief can do. Blind is the strongest damage mitigation skill in the game, with Stealth being a close runner up. I’ve seen Thieves bunker far longer than any Guardian.

It’s Thieves like you that make other Thieves not realize the true potential of the class. I’m telling you right now, when used to their fullest, Thieves are downright broken. I’ve seen single Thieves hold off, and even down multiple opponents in high level tournaments. They have practically UNLIMITED dodging when specced for, mix that in with caltrops, and every opponent in an area is suffering from 25 bleeds and 20 seconds worth of cripple in mere moments.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

Targetting has some very annoying mechanics in this game, and anything that can improve it, I’m for it. Like ronpierce stated, any mechanism that makes combat clunky does not leads to very good gaming. Especially so in a game that has so many pets, that tab targetting is annoying and clunky as well. The combination of both is extremely unfun, and makes any player feel more that they are fighting the targetting system, than they are fighting the player. This makes GW2’s combat feel like a bit unpolished and bugged, even though it was “intentional”.

What could happen, however, is that after being taken out of stealth, if that player had escaped far away (1200-1500 or more radious), the target would break. But while within the radious of the duel, targetting should not break at all.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

That’ suitable, if you’re wanting to make an escape, sure, make it so the target is dropped on stealthed targets further tahn 1500 away, that’d make sense. And people could use that as an advantage that requires skill/thought. (Don’t make it too close such as maybe even 1200 because you’d still have that issue a lot with the amount of thief TPs out there) I’m not sure much would change, then with that mechanic. People would just create TP/Stealth builds if they wanted to rely on that mechanic enough.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: bhagwad.4281

bhagwad.4281

Two observations:

1. As a mesmer, I rely on target drop to avoid damage. I rely on the fact that the player has to wait for me to unstealth and then target me again. I deliberately hide behind my clones after unstealthing to make it difficult for opponents to select me and thereby target me. If stealth doesn’t break targeting, I will choose not to stealth at all.

2. Playing against a mesmer just got a whole lot easier. Easy mode with no more target dropping with decoy . I would be able to crush them! Even as a mesmer, mesmers are my most annoying fights. So it cuts both ways

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: OGDeadHead.8326

OGDeadHead.8326

You’re admitting you rely on the clunky mechanic of forced de-target in order to live. Maybe if that wasn’t a factor they could be improved in other ways to subset this change, if they found it neccessary.

This.

Targeting in this game is far from perfect, and both thieves and mesmers benefit from it far too much, besides their stealth and confusing options.

It’s a bad game mechanic because of how clunky this system actually is. Reacquiring your previous thief target in the midst of minions, pets and other players is not an easy task, granting stealth “double bonus” if you will.

Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Have any of you played any other games with stealthing classes? WoW for example? Rogues in WoW, Thieves and Assassins in Shadowbane, and Scouts in DAoC all dropped target. Perhaps the point is for the combat in these scenarios not to be fluid because these classes are effectively stopping the engagement and starting over?

Consider a Ranger for example… Thief comes in and opens up but is forced to stealth for some random reason (condition removal for example). The ranger now simply stands in place and spams 1 over and over until the 2 seconds of stealth drop and the thief comes out. If the thief is within 1500 yards, they’re being re-engaged without the Ranger even having to look at the screen.

I really do think dropping the target is intended and it doesn’t need to be changed. While it’s not fluid, it probably shouldn’t be when a target disappears from sight.

For all its faults, and having 5 years to fix it, the Rogue in WoW is probably the best implementation of a stealthing class in modern MMO’s right now. I think dropping the target (and nulling damage in flight) upon stealth is intended and needed.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Luthan.5236

Luthan.5236

I want this for Mesmer and his clones. It’s easy to know which one is the real Mesmer but you still lose time because you need to retarget. But that would ruin his class mechanic. I think the same regarding thief.

So we can’t do anything about it.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: shimzor.6057

shimzor.6057

Nah, this is the main defense of thieves and mesmers. It should require the enemy to fire off a few brain cells in order to resume the fight.

Why then Thief dont need to fire some braincells? Brain cells using should be same at both sides.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Have any of you played any other games with stealthing classes? WoW for example? Rogues in WoW, Thieves and Assassins in Shadowbane, and Scouts in DAoC all dropped target. Perhaps the point is for the combat in these scenarios not to be fluid because these classes are effectively stopping the engagement and starting over?

Have you ever played any of the other games with stealthing classes? WoW for example? They’re generally overpowered as hell. Rogue especially.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

Yeah but rogues in WoW can’t stealth every 4 seconds, it’s more of a ocrap button to escape or CC after your initial stealth before combat. I’m sure it was the same in all those other MMOs too.

GW2 targeting is trash that’s why it has come to suggestions like this.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Have any of you played any other games with stealthing classes? WoW for example? Rogues in WoW, Thieves and Assassins in Shadowbane, and Scouts in DAoC all dropped target. Perhaps the point is for the combat in these scenarios not to be fluid because these classes are effectively stopping the engagement and starting over?

Have you ever played any of the other games with stealthing classes? WoW for example? They’re generally overpowered as hell. Rogue especially.

They are at release, sure. The Rogue in WoW is probably the best implementation of a stealthing class currently though. Granted it took like 5 years of nerfs to get there.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

Yeah but rogues in WoW can’t stealth every 4 seconds, it’s more of a ocrap button to escape or CC after your initial stealth before combat. I’m sure it was the same in all those other MMOs too.

GW2 targeting is trash that’s why it has come to suggestions like this.

Oh I certainly agree with this as I find stealth to be quite bad in this game, but the targetting issue is hardly an issue worth bringing up. Every other game you need to click on your target. Tab targetting isn’t acceptable in other games, etc. Dropping target is probably intended.

Now if you want to fix the thief or mesmer independently then suggest solutions to those classes. But targetting just doesn’t seem legitimate. For example, the largest problem with the thief class right now in my opinion is initiative regen, but a nerf to that would then lead to a pretty drastic increase in auto-attack damage.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

I would argue that Stealth should be a permanent tool, but you have to move slowly whilst in stealth, and have no regeneration. I would then retool the Thief completely to be more of a “Surprise! Ambush mothakitten” using stronger traps. Instead of the “Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!” nonsense we have now.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

I would argue that Stealth should be a permanent tool, but you have to move slowly whilst in stealth, and have no regeneration. I would then retool the Thief completely to be more of a “Surprise! Ambush mothakitten” using stronger traps. Instead of the “Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!” nonsense we have now.

That would have been my preference too.

The common element most stealthing classes have in other games is once you’re out of stealth you can’t get back in. In WoW you needed vanish to get back in and it was on a long cooldown. In Shadowbane you had to hide before stealthing (hide you couldnt move, stealth you could move) but in order to hide you had to channel a skill for like 10 seconds without being hit.

The problem with this approach is the thief class right now would be nearly useless without an enormous amount of work being done. Right now too much of the Thiefs damage comes from abilities because the auto attacks are so low. The class doesn’t have any way to mitigate damage and the only other option is avoidance via stealth. Almost all healing, regen, and condition removal is handled through stealth. Etc.

It’s just a lost cause if you ask me. If the thief is the real target of this thread, I still say the main issue with it is initiative regen. The whole losing target thing is a nonissue.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Illidan.6802

Illidan.6802

I do not agree with the reapply target after stealth. The mechanic is completely fine as it is right now. The goal of stealth is not only dropping target during stealth, but AFTER it as well. Thief breaks into someone’s house. He can turn off the light and hide. He can punch you in the face then hide again. It is YOUR job to find him after he hid. It is not like you can spam your fists in the air and have a free detection of where the thief is. Use your common sense!

[LotD] Long Phi
D/D – S/P Sylvary Thief
Blackgate

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

I have to agree with Altroll on this, Thieves if made correctly really aren’t squishy… And also, it’s complete stealth, if you’re standing in a spot that you can predictably be hit that’s generally a player issue. Most people who see a stealther go into hiding they will either attack around them, or attack in a path following the direction they started hiding in. Anything beyond that would be sheer luck and not very likely.

How is this an issue. The thieves that aren’t squishy, and that are going stealth all the time, are not the thieves doing any damage. Of course, you have for example the Pistol/Dagger condition build, but the only condition is bleed.. Most classes have condition removers, perhaps not for all conditions, but for at last one at a time. It’s your fault if you didn’t bring any condition removers on your build, just like it’s the thief’s fault that he chose that exact build.

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

The only idea I like here, is if the target on the player who’s going stealth reappears when the player is out of stealth again. Not if the target stays on him while in stealth, so you just have to swing your sword etc…

Arena Net wants thieves to have the greatest burst and mobility in the game, but in exchange, they take away a lot of their survivability. Yes they have stealth, and yes they can just escape using short bow, but that’s a part of their survivability. You can’t just stand there and burst the target while being attacked yourself.
If the thieves had to move slowly when being in stealth, they would lose all the mobility and speed for roaming, which is the main part of a thief’s job in tournaments.
I don’t give a kitten about the play style in hot join, as that is just individuals having fun or grinding glory, but in tournaments you can’t be slow when you’re a thief.

It feels like I’m talking with a lot of hot join players, probably from NA, who never played with or against any decent teams in tournaments.. Like talking to a wall.

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

I have to agree with Altroll on this, Thieves if made correctly really aren’t squishy… And also, it’s complete stealth, if you’re standing in a spot that you can predictably be hit that’s generally a player issue. Most people who see a stealther go into hiding they will either attack around them, or attack in a path following the direction they started hiding in. Anything beyond that would be sheer luck and not very likely.

How is this an issue. The thieves that aren’t squishy, and that are going stealth all the time, are not the thieves doing any damage. Of course, you have for example the Pistol/Dagger condition build, but the only condition is bleed.. Most classes have condition removers, perhaps not for all conditions, but for at last one at a time. It’s your fault if you didn’t bring any condition removers on your build, just like it’s the thief’s fault that he chose that exact build.

You seem to be under the impression that Thieves have to sacrifice damage for survivability when they have Blinds and Stealth for the highest damage mitigation in the game. You should probably learn Thief, bro. It’s really good.

You also seem to be under the impression that Thieves are easy to kill…

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Jonwar.9205

Jonwar.9205

I think that’s what the suggestion was if I’m not mistaken… Not even the big red target thing, but just having the target selected.

This is more of a mesmer thing than a thief thing, and it’s not stealth in itself that’s the problem it’s stealth+pets that make targeting a mesmer a frustrating experience. You have two choices, tab through the pets until you hit the mesmer or try to click him (which requires you to change to turn with keys instead of just mouseturn, which is a pain). Either way it leads to time where the mesmer through no particular effort can kite and damage you.

Hurr Durr Blades – PvP Warrior
Jangeol – WvW Warrior

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: AlexRD.7914

AlexRD.7914

Why don’t you just remove mesmers from the game and be done with it

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

You seem to be under the impression that Thieves have to sacrifice damage for survivability when they have Blinds and Stealth for the highest damage mitigation in the game. You should probably learn Thief, bro. It’s really good.

You also seem to be under the impression that Thieves are easy to kill…

They don’t have blind unless they spec that in trait. Blind reduces damage, that is a fact. Go check the trait lines.. There’s a cooldown before you can stealth again, so in that time, it’s not hard to kill a thief, unless he escapes. Also, he can’t just stealth and stealth and stealth, because that costs initiative, and he doesn’t have enough initiative regeneration, unless he’s using another build (not burst build).

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

You seem to be under the impression that Thieves have to sacrifice damage for survivability when they have Blinds and Stealth for the highest damage mitigation in the game. You should probably learn Thief, bro. It’s really good.

You also seem to be under the impression that Thieves are easy to kill…

They don’t have blind unless they spec that in trait. Blind reduces damage, that is a fact. Go check the trait lines.. There’s a cooldown before you can stealth again, so in that time, it’s not hard to kill a thief, unless he escapes. Also, he can’t just stealth and stealth and stealth, because that costs initiative, and he doesn’t have enough initiative regeneration, unless he’s using another build (not burst build).

D/P!?!?!?!?!

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Invision.1307

Invision.1307

How often are you able to blind? It costs 6 initiative, and you’ll often use heartseeker after which is 3 initiative.

“Heart Of The [MIST” – Guild Leader

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

P/D and D/P have enormous survivability. You regenerate initiative, bro. It’s not like Deathshroud.

As I said, I’ve seen Thieves in high level tPvP that have unlimited dodges, or blind/caltrop an entire group into death. My Lich form doesn’t stand a chance against good D/P P/D players.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

If a called target (ctrl+t) would remain targeted so you can press t to get on him again that would fix these stealth issues, but as I’ve experienced I’m pretty sure it disappears every time. That simply should not happen imo.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: kirito.4138

kirito.4138

Having a target stick after stealth would be a serious blow to thieves and mesmer’s survivability.

I play caltrop condi thief and the worst thing is to miss aC&D or Blind to dodges since is it large part of your initiative. Miss again and likely toast.

I also play power necro and 2-3 hit in Lich form would basically down a thief since they are likely glassy. If target was sticky after stealth I would kill them so much faster by just spamming 1 key since target isn’t dropped.

http://www.twitch.tv/kirito4138
The only exclusive skyhammer stream

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Kirito, a Caltrop Condition Thief should easily dominate a Lich. Using dodges, blinds, and stealth as damage mitigation, while the Lich stews with 25+ bleeds. It’s over at that point.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I’ve said it once but I guess I’ll say it again. Stop hiding behind a clunky mechanic guys, it’s keeping your classes down while making everyone call for nerfs on them all the time. Stealth would still do its intention, but you can go back to fighting when its done doing its intended purpose. If it hurt their survivability too bad they would likely be buffed by REASONABLE means, rather than crutching on a clunky mechanic. Its a better design regardless.

Also, to the person who said “Thief breaks into someone’s house. He can turn off the light and hide. He can punch you in the face then hide again. It is YOUR job to find him after he hid. It is not like you can spam your fists in the air and have a free detection of where the thief is. Use your common sense!”

Lets not bring real life into this, in real life they don’t go invisible, and if you did hit them by swinging in real life you’d likely be able to grapple them and try to take them down, and EVERYONE could hide in this scenario, so give everyone stealth? Logic fighting logic. This is a game, so stop with that silly crap.

Anyways… Also, yes WoW rogues can restealth like once or twice and even that was considered OP… Oh and they were both 3 min cooldowns and broke upon action. Yeah that’s not the same thing…

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Frellin.6318

Frellin.6318

I’ve said it once but I guess I’ll say it again. Stop hiding behind a clunky mechanic guys, it’s keeping your classes down while making everyone call for nerfs on them all the time. Stealth would still do its intention, but you can go back to fighting when its done doing its intended purpose. If it hurt their survivability too bad they would likely be buffed by REASONABLE means, rather than crutching on a clunky mechanic. Its a better design regardless.

Also, to the person who said “Thief breaks into someone’s house. He can turn off the light and hide. He can punch you in the face then hide again. It is YOUR job to find him after he hid. It is not like you can spam your fists in the air and have a free detection of where the thief is. Use your common sense!”

Lets not bring real life into this, in real life they don’t go invisible, and if you did hit them by swinging in real life you’d likely be able to grapple them and try to take them down, and EVERYONE could hide in this scenario, so give everyone stealth? Logic fighting logic. This is a game, so stop with that silly crap.

Anyways… Also, yes WoW rogues can restealth like once or twice and even that was considered OP… Oh and they were both 3 min cooldowns and broke upon action. Yeah that’s not the same thing…

What has been suggested is not better design. It is a band-aid fix for people who are having trouble selecting the target they want. Tab, left click, and right click targeting is what needs improvements.

You can run into the exact same problem with a minion necromancer. When you initiate combat you might have trouble selecting him as your target because he is surrounded by pets. Once you finally acquire him you can accidentally lose your target because letting up on the right mouse button and holding it back down can sometimes de-select your target.

- Tab targeting can pickup pets.
- Left click targeting can pickup a target in front of what you clicked on.
- Right click targeting de-selects targets when you don’t want to lose them.

You are trying to solve issues that affect more than just stealth. Even decent size group battles is a war of successfully selecting your intended target.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: nakoda.4213

nakoda.4213

wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of stealth if you could maintain target lock through stealth?

Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

“Wouldn’t say no to the change personally, however in exchange I’d like for all ‘channeled’ abilities with long, aimed animations (Air #1 on S/X Ele, Life Siphon, etc.) to stop following targets through stealth.”

I’d prefer you guys had that anyways… Deal for me…

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

“wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of stealth if you could maintain target lock through stealth?”

No not at all, stealth is to be unseeable for sometime to set up tricks and it acts as a defense. Rogues in WoW are the main stealth class, and when they hit a target while stealthed they instantly leave stealth and if the person has no target it automatically targets them. (It auto targets something that hits you when you have no target) and they don’t have HALF the mid-combat stealth abilities as in GW2 and its still a very competitive class. It has its purpose as a defensive ability, it still works as a non-attackable stomp/rezer, and free casting time where you’re GENERALLY uninterruptable. And it also still gives you the opportunity to actually hide via objects in the game, so no it still greatly has its purpose attached. If that was the main purpose I’d see no reason why there aren’t skills that say “Cause enemy to deselect you.” You don’t see that because that’s not an intended combat mechanic, and it’s very clunky/annoying.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Daecollo.9578

Daecollo.9578

“wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of stealth if you could maintain target lock through stealth?”

No not at all, stealth is to be unseeable for sometime to set up tricks and it acts as a defense. Rogues in WoW are the main stealth class, and when they hit a target while stealthed they instantly leave stealth and if the person has no target it automatically targets them. (It auto targets something that hits you when you have no target) and they don’t have HALF the mid-combat stealth abilities as in GW2 and its still a very competitive class. It has its purpose as a defensive ability, it still works as a non-attackable stomp/rezer, and free casting time where you’re GENERALLY uninterruptable. And it also still gives you the opportunity to actually hide via objects in the game, so no it still greatly has its purpose attached. If that was the main purpose I’d see no reason why there aren’t skills that say “Cause enemy to deselect you.” You don’t see that because that’s not an intended combat mechanic, and it’s very clunky/annoying.

As long as thieves get a trait redesign, there weapons/attacks scale better with power and there health bumped to 15-18k.

Hero {} Roleplayer {} Friend {} Professional Princess Saver
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

“As long as thieves get a trait redesign, there weapons/attacks scale better with power and there health bumped to 15-18k.”

As I had said prior, if buffs had to happen to OFFSET the change (not make them OP in change of making them less clunky) I’m totally down for it.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Adaneshade.2409

Adaneshade.2409

How often are you able to blind? It costs 6 initiative, and you’ll often use heartseeker after which is 3 initiative.

I can answer that. I can keep a perma black powder blind field down with the standard 10-30-30 thief build. You don’t even need to use the stealth vs 85% or more of the encounters just blind field + auto attack with a few HS at the end to finish.

~Shadowkat

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

I totally agree with this, though I might suggest that, like the Invis said, the target drops while the thief is stealthed and comes back up when they are out of stealth. That way we’re actually able to heal, prepare venoms, etc as we should be allowed to do (stealth is also a time for planning) but still stick to the OP’s intentions. Also, it would let people know when thieves are in stealth and when they leave it, which I’m ok with supporting.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: nakoda.4213

nakoda.4213

if you could simply re-acquire your target without having to “search” for them after they have disappeared from your field of vision, then it wouldn’t be “stealth” it would be “invulnerability,” in effect.

the entire purpose of stealth is to make you lose your target and have to reacquire it, the effect of giving the thief time to plan attacks is the ancillary bonus to being able to “stealth.”

aoe still damage people in stealth, allowing people to lock targets through stealth elimites its function entirely.

Boundaries are for the effortless.
Benn E Violence :: 0/20/30/20/0
You kittens don’t even know what the prefix “meta” means.

Suggestion: "Keep Target when they Stealth"

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

if you could simply re-acquire your target without having to “search” for them after they have disappeared from your field of vision, then it wouldn’t be “stealth” it would be “invulnerability,” in effect.

the entire purpose of stealth is to make you lose your target and have to reacquire it, the effect of giving the thief time to plan attacks is the ancillary bonus to being able to “stealth.”

aoe still damage people in stealth, allowing people to lock targets through stealth elimites its function entirely.

Reaquiring a target is not a core mechanic of gameplay. Stealth does what its intended. It stops direct attacks, it allows hidden stomping/rezing, and breaks combos. Trying to say that stealth is useless because it loses target drop is the silliest thing I’ve heard. It is not invulnerability because it’s not supposed to be, it hides you, and not dropping the target would still do that, reaquiring target instantly AFTER THE EFFECT ENDS, sounds about how it should work.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)