Suggestions to balance stealth
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You don’t have to come to terms with the burst. From a dev re: backstab dmg:
“Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.
IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer
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Stealth is our only form of protection. Fix rendering first then revisit after the “burst nerf” that is coming (not sure if it’s only thief or all burst in general).
Stealth is (and has always been) a completely broken mechanic, that has no place in serious competitive pvp.
Yet for some reason Anet managed to make it even more broken than it is in other MMOs.
It should just be completely removed from the game and replaced with something that actually comes from common sense.
Without the type of burst needed to take down some of these bunker builds the game is going to shift even further to a snooze fest. The bigger problem, imho, is the numerous ways to constantly shift into to stealth and reset fights without risk to the thief.
A three second stealth resets a fight huh?
It’s actually pretty hilarious to burn down new players that know nothing about game/class mechanics. If only they AoE.
Without the type of burst needed to take down some of these bunker builds the game is going to shift even further to a snooze fest. The bigger problem, imho, is the numerous ways to constantly shift into to stealth and reset fights without risk to the thief.
>3 second stealth
>reset fights
l2p
A three second stealth resets a fight huh?
It’s actually pretty hilarious to burn down new players that know nothing about game/class mechanics. If only they AoE.
3 seconds? With rendering and duration stacking, no not three seconds. Also, stealth, damage, stealth, damage, stealth….that is what resets fights. Being able to negate most damage by simply shifting into stealth is over the top when combined with the damage.
BTW, not everyone has an endless supply of aoe to blindly throw around and blindly throwing around abilities because you cannot see a character who is shifting in and out of sight IS the problem.
Without the type of burst needed to take down some of these bunker builds the game is going to shift even further to a snooze fest. The bigger problem, imho, is the numerous ways to constantly shift into to stealth and reset fights without risk to the thief.
>3 second stealth
>reset fightsl2p
L2thief, or at least play against one who knows what they’re doing.
I’m pretty certain the Backstab burst combo will be changed.
Apart from the rendering issue everyone keeps talking about I think stealth is absolutely fine. I didn’t think stealth was overpowered in other MMOs (I never played a stealth class in other MMOs) and I don’t think stealth is overpowered here. The only exception to that is MAYBE Shadow Refuge, stealth resses are pretty powerful but one knockback in the Refuge and you can knock the Thief and anyone else inside out of it (removing stealth).
Stealth classes require intelligence to beat. It’s all about mind games. Thieves are squishy as hell if more than one competent player focuses them. And even 1v1; Mesmers, Guardians and Engineers can beat them pretty consistently. Once Backstab is nerfed I’d be willing to bet Necromancer and Elementalist will be able to beat them 1v1 as well.
Most Thieves are incompetent buffoons as well. My team had such trouble finding a good one that I (the Guardian) started playing Thief instead because good Guardians are easier to find. If you can’t beat a Thief you just need to practice. Get a friend to play as Thief and work out how to beat them. Make yourself more tanky if you’re playing hot join. I can 1 shot everyone as Thief in hot join. In tournaments I can only 1 shot other glass cannons. People just have god awful builds in hot join.
In conclusion: Thief has some issues that need sorted… but I don’t believe stealth is one of them (excluding rendering bug).
Know what issue no one talks about? The tracking issue when stealthing.
When using channeled abilities, leaps, targeted attacks, etc., they will always follow anyone that stealths for 1 second after stealthing. Even if you dodge roll behind them. If they use a leap they will do a 180 and follow you.
Thieves are squishy as hell? Possibly if it wasn’t for the built in survivability of stealth and that’s what needs to be the trade off. You do great burst you should be “squishy” like every other glass cannon build. The problem being, they’re not.
It’s not about mind games, I don’t care about poorly played thieves who stand in the area they stealthed from. I’m talking about the ones who know to rotate cd and reopen.
More tanky is an option, but like I said I’m fine with the burst potential of the profession (similar to warriors or engineers), but stealth is the problem. You should be able to fight AFTER you’ve been open on. Getting cd/steal/signet/bs and living to 30% health and then starting the fight isn’t a problem. You blow cool downs that get you back up to 60-70%, that’s fair so now “let’s fight!” But guess what? The thief just stealths and reopens…now you blow more cool downs, evasions, dodges, and you’ve managed to get the thief ( by blindly aoe’ing) to 50% and now you’re at 40%. So now it’s really on! Guess what, a heal that stealths… and thus the cycle continues except you’ve had maybe 10-15% view time on the thief for the whole duration of the fight.
Remove stealth or add a short duration see stealth buff. All abilities need a counter, there is no counter to stealth.
Maybe characters in stealth should have a faint shadow or blurring if you stand close to them. Like the Predator in the movies. Right now it doesnt feel like stealth. Right now a more accurate term to call it would be total invisibility. The thief is harry potter on crack, you can’t see him even though he’s getting hit by your attacks.
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
Well now you’re saying we have to use an elite to counter something that thiefs can just cycle pretty much all the time… that’s BS.
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
So defined in your counter, “…or whatever” That’s not a real counter. How do you beat a warrior, “well you do whatever when they’re at 50%”. How do you beat a shatter mesmer, “well you know, you do whatever when they’re at 50%”
Let’s look at your suggestion though, what do you do if you don’t have a root or moa?
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
So defined in your counter, “…or whatever” That’s not a real counter. How do you beat a warrior, “well you do whatever when they’re at 50%”. How do you beat a shatter mesmer, “well you know, you do whatever when they’re at 50%”
Let’s look at your suggestion though, what do you do if you don’t have a root or moa?
Fortunately all classes have access to immobilize, cripple, and stun.
Also, if you immobilize a warrior and try to burst him, he can shield block. Endure pain as well.
If you immobilize a shatter mesmer and try to burst him, he can can distortion.
A thief doesn’t have access to immunities.
It’s not a matter of theorycraft it’s a matter of practical application. Fundamentally, the ability to do this type of damage is not off set by their lack of defense. Stealth ‘s inherent defence doesn’t justify the trade off of burst.
And how is that not practical?
See thief, immobilize/stun, kill him. Doesn’t matter if he stealths. He’ll die. You can’t get hit by an immobilze or stun as a thief. Stealth won’t save you. You’ll just die while invisible.
Ways to counter stealth:
Stack conditions before he go stealth
Heavy AoE in predictabe place of thief
Constant movement,
applying protection,
aoe chill/criple
Root
Knockback/stun/knockdown
Swinging your weapeons basic attack( if it connects you know where is thief)
Look at combat log when random attacking and you know if you hit thief
The last and the most trusty- bunker build
Former Devils Inside Thief R43
And how is that not practical?
See thief, immobilize/stun, kill him. Doesn’t matter if he stealths. He’ll die. You can’t get hit by an immobilze or stun as a thief. Stealth won’t save you. You’ll just die while invisible.
Because if everything went as perfectly as described and we played against AI, then that would be a plausible response. That isn’t the case, I can just as easily say that the thief will always open and burst you down from 100-0. That’s not what I’m addressing, I’m talking about the give and take nature of balancing burst to be in line with the fundamental trade off for that burst. Inherently, stealth negates this trade off.
Ways to counter stealth:
Stack conditions before he go stealth
Heavy AoE in predictabe place of thief
Constant movement,
applying protection,
aoe chill/criple
Root
Knockback/stun/knockdown
Swinging your weapeons basic attack( if it connects you know where is thief)
Look at combat log when random attacking and you know if you hit thief
The last and the most trusty- bunker build
I don’t need suggestions on how to play against poorly played thieves. You won’t have to blow a single defensive cd when playing against them. The problem being, it is not an even playing field for those of equal skill dealing with the current model of high burst and built in survivability of stealth.
And how is that not practical?
See thief, immobilize/stun, kill him. Doesn’t matter if he stealths. He’ll die. You can’t get hit by an immobilze or stun as a thief. Stealth won’t save you. You’ll just die while invisible.
Because if everything went as perfectly as described and we played against AI, then that would be a plausible response. That isn’t the case, I can just as easily say that the thief will always open and burst you down from 100-0. That’s not what I’m addressing, I’m talking about the give and take nature of balancing burst to be in line with the fundamental trade off for that burst. Inherently, stealth negates this trade off.
And I can just as easily say that a thief should never hit his opener against you because you have the ability to dodge in this game.
Fact is, you have the tools to dodge the opening burst and counter for a kill, just as a thief has the ability to land the opening burst and finish a kill.
It all comes down to who plays better and if you’re prepared and know what to do when fighting someone.
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
So defined in your counter, “…or whatever” That’s not a real counter. How do you beat a warrior, “well you do whatever when they’re at 50%”. How do you beat a shatter mesmer, “well you know, you do whatever when they’re at 50%”
Let’s look at your suggestion though, what do you do if you don’t have a root or moa?
You do “whatever”. How about a knockdown? How about a stun? How about a Daze? If you don’t have “whatever” then it’s like me complaining as a Thief I can’t stomp people due to lack of stability. I need someone else to do that for me (but like someone said above, I’m sure you have access to some sort of “whatever”).
(edited by Stiv.1820)
I see a bunch of, “Dont nerf me bro”.
Nerfing thief damage will not be the rise of more bunkers, it will be the rise of more classes being able to go DPS.
When we dont have to fear being bursted down in >3 sec. by a kitten player playing an OP class….thats when this game will start to shine.
And then all you other bad players that keep asking for stupid nerfs will find something new to complain about, and repeat the cycle of forum warrioring.
p.s. I play a thief along with 4 other classes.
I see a bunch of, “Dont nerf me bro”.
Nerfing thief damage will not be the rise of more bunkers, it will be the rise of more classes being able to go DPS.
When we dont have to fear being bursted down in >3 sec. by a kitten player playing an OP class….thats when this game will start to shine.
And then all you other bad players that keep asking for stupid nerfs will find something new to complain about, and repeat the cycle of forum warrioring.p.s. I play a thief along with 4 other classes.
This isn’t about nerfing damage. It’s known that is going to happen. OP is talking about nerfing stealth which is a thief’s only defensive mechanic (aside from evasion which is global).
The counter to stealth is just root & dmg. Any thief at 50% health should be eating a root or Moa or whatever. Once all breaks are down a root is death. Sure they can stealth but they can’t move or dodge and still take damage like normal.
So defined in your counter, “…or whatever” That’s not a real counter. How do you beat a warrior, “well you do whatever when they’re at 50%”. How do you beat a shatter mesmer, “well you know, you do whatever when they’re at 50%”
Let’s look at your suggestion though, what do you do if you don’t have a root or moa?
You do “whatever”. How about a knockdown? How about a stun? How about a Daze? If you don’t have “whatever” then it’s like me complaining as a Thief I can’t stomp people due to lack of stability. I need someone else to do that for me.
How about they’re in stealth and you can’t hit them with a kd or a stun because you can’t see them. This is exactly why theorycrafting is pointless. Are there counters to thief abilities? Yes. The problem isn’t saying what to do in what situation the issue is an ability sways the balance in the favor of a thief disproportionately (given the burst).
A-net has stated they would not make the same mistakes as previous mmo’s in duplicating the perma stealth imbalance. The “perma” stealth from other games would be preferable to this one, because once out of stealth it requires the use of a long duration cd to get back into stealth. Constantly jumping in and out of stealth and doing the type of damage they do is not balanced by any means.
1. Fix the bug that plagues it, correct the rendering issue.
Any combination of the following:
2. Lengthen the revealed debuff (if fixing the rendering issue isn’t an option, then this debuff should be lengthened substantially).
3. Movement reduction while in stealth
I’ve come to terms with thieves being bursty, the trade off needs to come from the built in survivability of stealth and with its current form there is no trade off.
There is a movement reduction applied while in stealth. I’m not sure what it is though.
I see a bunch of, “Dont nerf me bro”.
Nerfing thief damage will not be the rise of more bunkers, it will be the rise of more classes being able to go DPS.
When we dont have to fear being bursted down in >3 sec. by a kitten player playing an OP class….thats when this game will start to shine.
And then all you other bad players that keep asking for stupid nerfs will find something new to complain about, and repeat the cycle of forum warrioring.p.s. I play a thief along with 4 other classes.
This isn’t about nerfing damage. It’s known that is going to happen. OP is talking about nerfing stealth which is a thief’s only defensive mechanic (aside from evasion which is global).
This should be posted on the front page of the forums. Thieves only defense mechanic is stealth and evades. No damage immunities, no easy protection application, nothing. Just stealth.
How about they’re in stealth and you can hit them with a kd or a stun. This is exactly why theorycrafting is pointless. Are there counters to thief abilities? Yes. The problem isn’t saying what to do in what situation the issue is an ability sways the balance in the favor of a thief disproportionately (given the burst).
A-net has stated they would not make the same mistakes as previous mmo’s in duplicating the perma stealth imbalance. The “perma” stealth from other games would be preferable to this one, because once out of stealth it requires the use of a long duration cd to get back into stealth. Constantly jumping in and out of stealth and doing the type of damage they do is not balanced by any means.
Stealth doesn’t stop K/D and stuns. You can still land them against a stealthed target. If a thief stealths against a warrior with Bull Rush for example, the warrior can BR and it will still land. It takes ~1 second for all abilites to stop tracking a player when stealthing.
It is quite clear you don’t know how stealth functions and assume it’s some cloak of shadows in which the player is immune to all CC and damage.
1. Fix the bug that plagues it, correct the rendering issue.
Any combination of the following:
2. Lengthen the revealed debuff (if fixing the rendering issue isn’t an option, then this debuff should be lengthened substantially).
3. Movement reduction while in stealth
I’ve come to terms with thieves being bursty, the trade off needs to come from the built in survivability of stealth and with its current form there is no trade off.
There is a movement reduction applied while in stealth. I’m not sure what it is though.
There isn’t. There is no difference between stealth and not stealth aside from the various boons from traits and not being visible. You still move, take dmg, get knocked back, stay rooted etc as normal.
I see a bunch of, “Dont nerf me bro”.
Nerfing thief damage will not be the rise of more bunkers, it will be the rise of more classes being able to go DPS.
When we dont have to fear being bursted down in >3 sec. by a kitten player playing an OP class….thats when this game will start to shine.
And then all you other bad players that keep asking for stupid nerfs will find something new to complain about, and repeat the cycle of forum warrioring.p.s. I play a thief along with 4 other classes.
This isn’t about nerfing damage. It’s known that is going to happen. OP is talking about nerfing stealth which is a thief’s only defensive mechanic (aside from evasion which is global).
This should be posted on the front page of the forums. Thieves only defense mechanic is stealth and evades. No damage immunities, no easy protection application, nothing. Just stealth.
Then again, adjust stealth mechanics to be in line with the longer cd defensive mechanics. What you’re suggesting is that everyone should then have constant access to guardian defensive mechanics AND hb warrior burst.
How about they’re in stealth and you can hit them with a kd or a stun. This is exactly why theorycrafting is pointless. Are there counters to thief abilities? Yes. The problem isn’t saying what to do in what situation the issue is an ability sways the balance in the favor of a thief disproportionately (given the burst).
A-net has stated they would not make the same mistakes as previous mmo’s in duplicating the perma stealth imbalance. The “perma” stealth from other games would be preferable to this one, because once out of stealth it requires the use of a long duration cd to get back into stealth. Constantly jumping in and out of stealth and doing the type of damage they do is not balanced by any means.
Stealth doesn’t stop K/D and stuns. You can still land them against a stealthed target. If a thief stealths against a warrior with Bull Rush for example, the warrior can BR and it will still land. It takes ~1 second for all abilites to stop tracking a player when stealthing.
It is quite clear you don’t know how stealth functions and assume it’s some cloak of shadows in which the player is immune to all CC and damage.
rofl…I know you can land a stun or kd when someone is in stealth…the answer to stealth is to blindly swing and use cd’s to potentially kd or stun a player that may or may not be there?
I’ll compare my playing time and experience in all professions against yours any day.
How about they’re in stealth and you can hit them with a kd or a stun. This is exactly why theorycrafting is pointless. Are there counters to thief abilities? Yes. The problem isn’t saying what to do in what situation the issue is an ability sways the balance in the favor of a thief disproportionately (given the burst).
A-net has stated they would not make the same mistakes as previous mmo’s in duplicating the perma stealth imbalance. The “perma” stealth from other games would be preferable to this one, because once out of stealth it requires the use of a long duration cd to get back into stealth. Constantly jumping in and out of stealth and doing the type of damage they do is not balanced by any means.
Stealth doesn’t stop K/D and stuns. You can still land them against a stealthed target. If a thief stealths against a warrior with Bull Rush for example, the warrior can BR and it will still land. It takes ~1 second for all abilites to stop tracking a player when stealthing.
It is quite clear you don’t know how stealth functions and assume it’s some cloak of shadows in which the player is immune to all CC and damage.
rofl…I know you can land a stun or kd when someone is in stealth…the answer to stealth is to blindly swing and use cd’s to potentially kd or stun a player that may or may not be there?
I’ll compare my playing time and experience in all professions against yours any day.
No, you anticipate when they will be about to use stealth and apply those conditions before they do it. Then they go into stealth and you keep blasting that area because you know kitten well they are stuck there taking all your dmg.
If you are a build that can’t 50%-0 a thief (glass would be 7K hp at best) in ~4 seconds of root/daze/whatever (there it is again!) then that’s how you decided to build, many builds can do 7K in 3-4 seconds.
How can you say there is no counter to stealth?
the counter is AOE dmg. Use it.
Granted….the rendering bug NEEDS to be fixed. but thats a BUG, not an issue with the class mechanics. Dont get them confused.
Thieves ARE squishy. Fix the rendering bug and we are fine. Do anything else and thieves will leave game en mass.
How about they treat stealth like they do Mist form? and Tornado….take skills away….(Mist utility can be used, tornado nothing)
How about they treat stealth like they do Mist form? and Tornado….take skills away….(Mist utility can be used, tornado nothing)
If stelath were exactly the same as it is now accpet instead of invisable we were immune I think that would be a huge buff. Loose positioning for total immunity.
You can’t change the stealth mechanic without re-writing the profession. It’s where we get most of our boons and is designed to give us the ability to get great positioning.
If anything could be nerfed for thieves besides the burst (which may be toned down for everyone) it would be shortbow#5 in that it currently ignores root/stun. Remove that aspect from shortbow#5 and I think all is good.
@ Stiv
I’m pretty sure you move slower while in stealth then when not in stealth. I know everything else effects you normally. Could a dev please clear this up?
@ Pyrial
No, I’m not suggesting that everyone have access to Guardian level defense and Warrior level burst. What I AM saying it that all classes have some sort of damage mitigation tool except for Thieves. That’s what I’m saying. Thieves also have the lowest base health in the game, on par with Elementalists and Guardians.
Posting so I can quote…buggy forum is buggy
How about they treat stealth like they do Mist form? and Tornado….take skills away….(Mist utility can be used, tornado nothing)
If stelath were exactly the same as it is now accpet instead of invisable we were immune I think that would be a huge buff. Loose positioning for total immunity.
You can’t change the stealth mechanic without re-writing the profession. It’s where we get most of our boons and is designed to give us the ability to get great positioning.
If anything could be nerfed for thieves besides the burst (which may be toned down for everyone) it would be shortbow#5 in that it currently ignores root/stun. Remove that aspect from shortbow#5 and I think all is good.
I see where the confusion was, I didn’t mean the immunity part of mist form. I meant the part that takes your skill bar away.
So effectively while they are stealthed they can’t attack, this makes it more a defensive move than an offensive one.
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
Cloak & Dagger requires 6 initiative.
Once again, proving your knowledge of game mechanics is lacking.
How about they treat stealth like they do Mist form? and Tornado….take skills away….(Mist utility can be used, tornado nothing)
If stelath were exactly the same as it is now accpet instead of invisable we were immune I think that would be a huge buff. Loose positioning for total immunity.
You can’t change the stealth mechanic without re-writing the profession. It’s where we get most of our boons and is designed to give us the ability to get great positioning.
If anything could be nerfed for thieves besides the burst (which may be toned down for everyone) it would be shortbow#5 in that it currently ignores root/stun. Remove that aspect from shortbow#5 and I think all is good.
I see where the confusion was, I didn’t mean the immunity part of mist form. I meant the part that takes your skill bar away.
So effectively while they are stealthed they can’t attack, this makes it more a defensive move than an offensive one.
Lots of time I do use stealth this way to “take a breather” but forcing it would remove every weapon-set’s #1 opener which is the basis of every thief build.
I think when the spike dmg nerf comes it will help a lot.
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
As Daays said, Cloak and Dagger, which is the best way to enter stealth, costs 6 initaitve which is half of a Thieves entire skill bar of initiative, so Thieves definitely can’t go into stealth “at will”.
I know where you are coming from. Its frustrating to fight an opponent that you can’t see half the match. The rendering issue should be fixed, and then stealth looked at.
Not to be “that guy”, but if you die to auto attack something is wrong.
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
As Daays said, Cloak and Dagger, which is the best way to enter stealth, costs 6 initaitve which is half of a Thieves entire skill bar of initiative, so Thieves definitely can’t go into stealth “at will”.
I know where you are coming from. Its frustrating to fight an opponent that you can’t see half the match. The rendering issue should be fixed, and then stealth looked at.
Not to be “that guy”, but if you die to auto attack something is wrong.
You do realize the type of damage that auto attack produces correct? The problem with the initiative associated with C/D is that the ini loss is offset by the damage that auto attack does along with 20% go gain ini gain on crit.
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
Cloak & Dagger requires 6 initiative.
Once again, proving your knowledge of game mechanics is lacking.
Watch out, off by 1 inititative while not playing my thief…disproves everything I’ve said
Hey guys I don’t know how much certain abilities cost or how certain skills function, but here’s my suggested changes to balance them.
Good post bro. Looking forward to more in the future.
Hey guys I don’t know how much certain abilities cost or how certain skills function, but here’s my suggested changes to balance them.
Good post bro. Looking forward to more in the future.
Hey guys, I’m not in the game atm and don’t know the duration or resource cost of an ability…
(edited by Pyrial.2917)
@Zunhar, that is the current model though. Stealth, with the number of ways to access it is one of the best defensive mechanics in the game and it’s tied to warrior level of burst.
As you’re saying that stealth is the only defensive mechanice, then again put it on par with the longer cd defensive mechanics of other classes. As it is now, specs are littered with the ability to enter into stealth virtually at will. Stealth for 5 inititiative…combined with auto attack damage while rebuilding it is over the top.
As Daays said, Cloak and Dagger, which is the best way to enter stealth, costs 6 initaitve which is half of a Thieves entire skill bar of initiative, so Thieves definitely can’t go into stealth “at will”.
I know where you are coming from. Its frustrating to fight an opponent that you can’t see half the match. The rendering issue should be fixed, and then stealth looked at.
Not to be “that guy”, but if you die to auto attack something is wrong.
Cloak & Dagger also does a frakload of damage. And every selfrespecting stealth thief has 15 points into trickery giving him 15 initiative. And a lot of other traits that give iniative…
i suggest removal of stealth and invent some kind of bombs that blinds ppl around it like a ninja bomb, stealth is stupid, or smoke bomb for 3 sec or so that gives invisibility.
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