Guild Wars 2

There is a lot of moaning going on about Necros, and I am not seeing a lot of effort going toward shifting the meta in meaningful ways to counter their presence. For those of you who are having difficulty dealing with Necros and begging for another merciless nerf hammer I’d like for you to consider working together in this thread to help yourself rather than waiting on a patch that may not come.

Here is a concept that I have been working with (it is not a new one, just a new application of it) that seems to play very well against the large volume of Rabid Ammy Necros out there.

Roll up a Zerker Guardian.
Full Wurm Runes worked for me, but others may find better rune choices.
Sword/Focus, Scepter/Torch

You have some flexibility in traits an utilities (Meditations seem to work best and Smite Condition is hugely helpful), but as a baseline 0/30/20/20/0 was what I did most of my testing with. Honestly. I only have a couple hours of testing into this, but it seemed to work very well and I think others testing it as well will help to refine it. Against Neromancer Point defenders I rolled every one that I encountered with the longest fight being about 35s (due to that particular one having full LF at the outset and Plague up) and the shortest about 7s (he was prolly just bad). In team fight scenarios I was able to position effectively to mitigate their condi burst before tunnelling for the kill. This is not essential, but a very nice utility function for the team (especially coming from a Zerker DPS player), plus it assures you that at least one of your target’s fear sources is on CD before you dive and tunnel.

Why it works-
The Necro has no ability to get compression on their casts. Everything (except Doom and Corrupt Boon if they run it) is long cast, and everything has after cast. You are running enough Block, Blind and Cleanse that when you push a burst they can’t hit their Fears on you, which is their only self-peel (Reaper’s Mark and Corrupt Boon don’t hit if the Necro is blind, Doom is Blockable, Spectral Wall Requires you to run through it and you can burst while stationary). You can also clear Weakness if it becomes problematic since you will have Contemplation of Purity and/or be using Smite Condition as part of your burst. If you should eat a fear, then you have the flexibility to run with 2 stun breakers. You also have room to carry some stability which comes in handy.

On the Sword set you can cycle a simple Shield of Wrath burst coupled with a well timed RoJ (the blind and cleanse helps) and Smite Condition. If they start to kite and all your Stun Breaks are off CD, then you can safely chase and tunnel them down with AA’s, because if they survive the initial burst they will be low already. If you had to burn a breaker CD to get to them, then just swap to scepter, immobilize, smite, double-tap torch 4. If you time it right, then their teammates can’t peel for them easily (or at all) until after you have already dealt massive hits with both Smite Condition and SoW.

I encourage others to fit one of these into their team and give it a thorough vetting. I also suggest fitting in a decent damaging long ranged (1200+) weapon on someone else in the comp if you want to focus on team fight scenarios. Those Necos need to be 900 range or less for optimal efficiency, and if they get whittled down a bit from properly positioned RDPS, then they will drop to the initial burst every time and be a free stomp (because after all you are a Guardian).

Other thoughts:
Whittling the Necros down with long range DPS seems to be overlooked as a possible counter, but I think that some heads should be put together to work out a strategy to counter specifically by out ranging them. For instance, having extreme dodge and stunbreak limitations the Rabid Necros are susceptible to things like Killshot that are generally impractical. Remember, if they press when you pull back, then their mobility sucks and you can easily flank them and cut them off from their team.

Liberal application of Blind seems to be the key for the Guardian burst being effective. This suggests to me that there may be hope for Thieves as well, but I didn’t fiddle with it yet.

AoE Retaliation application on AI battlefield elements (illusions, pets, minions, etc.) may also ruin the day for the necros and I think this warrants exploration. Most of their damage comes from ground target AoE’s, and if you muck up the battle ground with trash that eats up their hits (5 per AoE) then it mitigates their pressure, while dealing a reasonable if not large amount of damage in Retaliation to them.

Combo fields for the healz and for the cleanses. Plenty of light fields are going down in every match already. Water Fields are harder to come by, but they are there. Some classes have GTAoE repetetive cleanses on comparable CD to the burst that the Necros are running. I think that this can work as well.

Don’t throw up your hands and say “A-net no good, Necro so faceroll.” What you have been doing (hiding behind a bunker at team fights) isn’t working anymore, so try something else, and let everyone know what is working.

Necromancers are really easy to kill if you run a radiance guardian. The very perception of Necromancers thinking they can kill a guardian with ease is what you can use to your advantage.

I heard fear counts as both a stun and a condition for melandru runes. Haven’t tested but I know condition duration and sigils of paralyzation both affect it, plus it can be both cleansed and stunbroken.

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

No offense, but that is nonsense. In one on one scenarios the terror necros are good, but they can be beaten. They are much more potent in team fight scenarios though, which is what makes them kind of unique in the sense that the mamoths of 1v1 have usually sucked at team fights up to this point.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons.

That is good info that bears repeating. The danger in the terrormancers is the chain CC. If you can break multiple stuns (preferably on short CDs) then your chances at winning the encounter increase.

For anyone that isn’t sure or hasn’t checked… YES, the Melandru Runes get 2 bonus reductions to fear (the Stun and Condition reduction % both count against Fear).

The ranged weapons speak to what I was addressing above. Out range them and you can set yourself at an advantage before they can close to dangerous range.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

No offense, but that is nonsense. In one on one scenarios the terror necros are good, but they can be beaten. They are much more potent in team fight scenarios though, which is what makes them kind of unique in the sense that the mamoths of 1v1 have usually sucked at team fights up to this point.

A Necromancer efficient with my Tormentor build took part in my test, he dueled numerous opponents and only lost to the Mesmer running a very unique Prismatic Understanding condition build. Now the problem with that, is that his PU Cond build is not viable for tournament, since it relies entirely on stealth/mobility.

He defeated Beastmaster Rangers, Warriors, Engineers, Thieves, Shatter/Phantasmal Mesmers, Minionmancer Necros, Condition Cleansing Elementalists, and many other 1v1 builds.

So keeping that in mind, I firmly believe the only way to consistently beat a good Terrormancer is to play a Necro better than he does.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

People finally figuring out how good PU is? Psh. This build was good before the patch now it is even better…. (Bunker mesmers gonna be taking over)

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

People finally figuring out how good PU is? Psh. This build was good before the patch now it is even better…. (Bunker mesmers gonna be taking over)

I wouldn’t consider it an efficient bunker considering all the stealth/necessary mobility. However it’s very good at 1v1-4s in open terrain with no objective.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

People finally figuring out how good PU is? Psh. This build was good before the patch now it is even better…. (Bunker mesmers gonna be taking over)

I wouldn’t consider it an efficient bunker considering all the stealth/necessary mobility. However it’s very good at 1v1-4s in open terrain with no objective.

Its a good bunker for one reason. It survives 2v1 3v1 for extremely extended periods of time…. Once a point is decapped as long as you have 2 people on that point still trying to kill you that means your team out numbers them everywhere else. And it is usually one DPS and one bunker trying to kill you. This method has gotten me a few things (I got 0 points in a match no kills no caps no nothing) But I spent a good 10 minutes running around a point while people kept trying to focus me and kill me which lead to my team facerolling through these guys with tunnel vision.
The point of the PU bunker build is not to sit there and hold the point for extended periods of time it is to:
1. Keep people there trying to kill you even if you don’t hold the point.
2. Same as 1 except you know the back up that is coming will win the point.

This is a build I developed before the patch trust me I know the capabilities of it.

Edit: However you are right in that it is not a good bunker in the traditional sense which is why I think ANet buffed the trait this patch. Maybe they also wanted to hang shinies in front of us to cover up all the nerfs we got this patch.

The new meta:

1) Strong = OP
2) Requires effort/team coordination to run = Not Viable

If it ain’t easy, it ain’t viable. If you personally are frustrated by it for a few games or if it counters said easy viable builds, it’s OP.

Sword/dagger thieves also have an easy time against necromancers with the amazing amount of evades available to them. Especially if they take the condition clear trait on stealth (if they go down that line, not all sword/dagger do).

I’ve already started to see counters to necromancers pop up. I really believe it is a learn to play issue. People haven’t been fighting necromancers since they were so useless before, and now they need to learn how.

I can’t believe necromancers have to teach other classes how to beat necromancers.

It’s much easier to ask for nerfs than L2P lol

vicious.5683:

I can’t believe necromancers have to teach other classes how to beat necromancers.

It’s much easier to ask for nerfs than L2P lol

With the amount of responses this thread got, we can pretty much conclude that people will rather cry for nerf instead of finding a way to counter this new necromancer by contributing in this thread.

vicious.5683:

I can’t believe necromancers have to teach other classes how to beat necromancers.

It’s much easier to ask for nerfs than L2P lol

What’s worse is that in less than 5 days the so called top players have mostly thrown up their hands in the air and said, “Oh well, Necro is unbeatable.” rather than finding ways to utilize the many and varied counters. Then the others are just parroting what the top tiers say and assuming that nothing can be done. Nice persistence. Good winning attitude.

Seems like there are fewer people than usual in ques now. Apparently a large part of the community just gave up and are focused on crying for nerf. Very sad. Necro is most likely going to get a nerf hammer again and it while it may be that they need to be tweaked a little bit it doesn’t appear that the players in this game will be satisfied with anything besides an over nerf. I don’t get it. It doesn’t seem anyone is even giving thought to what needs to be tweaked if anything. Sights are set on Dhuumfire for some reason and it is just objectively false to say that is the problem. /shrug

It’s much easier to ask for nerfs than L2P lol

Seems to work as the mesmer patch history shows.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

It’s great that you did these tests and try to help people play different classes (per your signature).

However, the fact that you left one KEY component out of your test results makes me VERY skeptical that you truly understand Necros and what Anet has to do to properly balance them.

The key variable you left out is — Did the duels start with the Necros having 100% LF or none?

If they started with none and still won every duel against equally skilled players, then I would say there is a balance issue. Unfortunately, that scenario is not really believable because a Necro with zero life force is the EASIEST class to kill by far. The Terror build is even easier to kill without LF because the LF generation from the scepter is slower than most other weapons in practice.

If the Necros started with 100% life force and won those duels, then that would be expected and finally make total sense for the Necro class.

One of the historic problems with Necros is that they were balanced around always having 100% life force. When this happened pre-patch, you at least felt you had a chance against other classes. When you had none, you were dead in seconds to burst chains from mesmers, thieves, warriors, engies, etc.

If you have a class that is so weak in some scenarios, then it has to be really strong in other scenarios. They finally realized that and made a Necro an unattractive target when it has full life force….still pretty easy to kill with no life force…and equal to others with partial life force.

Right now…everyone is complaining about the one or two times per match that they get cc/burst chained by a Necro who is at full strength and using all the cooldowns. They are also ignoring the same 1-2 times a match when they catch a Terror necro with no life force and/or cc on cooldown and they kill them in seconds.

Concluding a Terror-mancer is 1v1 better than anything without mentioning the LF in the duels evidences that you either don’t understand the dynamics of life force in the equation or the test was lazy.

For the record…my suggestion is that the one thing out of whack with Necros is the Terror talent. It is now probably overbudget due to the new sources/length of fears. If they tone that down, you will quickly note that the burst/cc chain from Necros is no different from other classes that have been in existence since inception.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Wish you were able to find out what his build was.Normally i dont use cookie cutter builds but every attempt i made to make a build that uses pu has failed for one reason or another.I just cant get the stats how i like them

I find necro easy to kill on my d/p + shortbow glass cannon thief

Necro started out with 50% Life force every test.

I appreciate the tests you ran, but I guarantee a well played full phantasm Mesmer will smear a terror necro on the ground the same way they will smear any class and any build.

They also couldn’t scratch my immortal build much. Too much condie defense.

The biggest reason necros are OP right now is because of dhummfire plus the new terror bonus… Its the issue of having 2 on every single team you face… You get feared for three seconds plus a butt load of damage

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

vicious.5683:

I can’t believe necromancers have to teach other classes how to beat necromancers.

It’s much easier to ask for nerfs than L2P lol

What’s worse is that in less than 5 days the so called top players have mostly thrown up their hands in the air and said, “Oh well, Necro is unbeatable.” rather than finding ways to utilize the many and varied counters. Then the others are just parroting what the top tiers say and assuming that nothing can be done. Nice persistence. Good winning attitude.

Seems like there are fewer people than usual in ques now. Apparently a large part of the community just gave up and are focused on crying for nerf. Very sad. Necro is most likely going to get a nerf hammer again and it while it may be that they need to be tweaked a little bit it doesn’t appear that the players in this game will be satisfied with anything besides an over nerf. I don’t get it. It doesn’t seem anyone is even giving thought to what needs to be tweaked if anything. Sights are set on Dhuumfire for some reason and it is just objectively false to say that is the problem. /shrug

If you have to run a build to counter one class, then this class is OP.

I got nicely countered by these 3:

- Zerker warior (0/25/30/0/15) GS + mace/shield… bulls rush,stance against conditions,endure pain
The 3s stun on mace burst is realy long and what got my eye was, he used the anti-condi stance as a mini stability. I copied his spec, tryed it out a bit and thanks to 60s endure pain its got decent survival for zerker.

- Sword/Dagger thief with blind on stealth + interupts…..actualy my worst nightmare…CC + blinds preventing my marks to hit in stealth + some evades while visible. Be aware, that build is far from easy to play, since u sacrifice either regen or 2ini on stealth so land ur CnD.

-A high mobile, dynamic team comp. They keept us outnumbered all time + 3glass necros didnt have much utility for team rezzing/stomping

I’m honestly in disbelief at the number of people who claim that the Necromancer is in any way balanced. Part of the problem is not only the extreme condition output they have (which has no direct counter; even the most cleanse heavy builds are at a loss) but the EASE with which they are played.

I could take a player who has never touched a necro, set him up well, tell him to just throw his marks on a node during a team fight, go into DS and press every button. Absurdly, I might take this necro over a decent thief or warrior. Balance?

Furthermore, who in their kittening right mind enjoys team fights that are just contests of who can poop out the most conditions fastest? Who in their right mind wants to watch their UI and play Cleanse Wars 2? Part of the thing that makes this game so fun is watching for animations and reacting — genuinely, that makes for reactive, immersive, and exciting gameplay. What’s that? DS 3 and 5 on staff are instant cast? You can’t counter them preemptively by having combat awareness?

Look, to be honest, I think the Terrormancer build (and any variants) is SUPER FUN. I really enjoy playing it. But I’m not delusional. No one should be able to fear-stunlock while bursting a target down with conditions. All this as AoE. And no, burst is no exaggeration — when your condi teammate can burst down a target faster than your glassy thief you know something is kittened up.

The people defending the ‘balance’ of the Necro are simply delusional. This is a thread about how the entire meta of the game and everyone’s builds should change to counter a single class. That speaks volumes.

Its beyond me how ANET hasn’t yet restricted the stacking of professions per team for tournament play. Nobody would QQ about necro’s being OP that way, and the meta would be much more interesting and easier to balance. This issue is similar to ‘elementalist’ stacking a couple of months ago when they were insanely OP, if you didn’t run double ele it was a liability to your team.

rsq.3581:

This is a thread about how the entire meta of the game and everyone’s builds should change to counter a single class. That speaks volumes.

Actually this is a thread about explaining to the endless QQers how they can play effectively rather than continuing to QQ about it.

@YuiRS, rsq and Akira – Please refrain from posting any more whine in this thread (there are plenty of whine threads about the necro already, post in those).

For the record, I main a Necro, and have played it since betas. I used to really enjoy the higher degree of skill required to run a Necro effectively, and I agree that the 30/30/10/0/0 copy and paste build that people are running primarily lowers the skill dramatically from what a pre-patch Necro was. I refuse to run that set up, and I have been mostly playing Guardian since the patch hit because I got really tired of hearing the whine in game and out. The Necros are still beatable. When they are stacked it just makes movement and positioning extremely critical for your team. At this point I have come to think Necro needs a tweak, but not a Nerf Hammer.

Engineers running Elixir C, Elixir Gun and Med Kit
Packaged Stimulants, Fireforged Trigger, Formula 409 maybe Rifled Barrels too.

Seems like it would work pretty well in Team Fight Scenarios without giving up the ability to be effective in other ways. Any Engi’s running tests on this or similar?

jportell.2197:

The biggest reason necros are OP right now is because of dhummfire plus the new terror bonus… Its the issue of having 2 on every single team you face… You get feared for three seconds plus a butt load of damage

Engineer have the exact same trait with just 10 points instead of 30 and no one is complaining about it. So the problem, if there is one (I don’t think so) its terror damage, not duration on fears.

Besides, you are complaining on being focused by two necros. WOW this is new, you think you are so great player you can stand against two other players at the same time. Sorry, but your argument is invalid. You can’t complain you are getting pwned when two players focuses you, this happens with any class, not just necromancers.

vicious.5683:

jportell.2197:

The biggest reason necros are OP right now is because of dhummfire plus the new terror bonus… Its the issue of having 2 on every single team you face… You get feared for three seconds plus a butt load of damage

Engineer have the exact same trait with just 10 points instead of 30 and no one is complaining about it. So the problem, if there is one (I don’t think so) its terror damage, not duration on fears.

Besides, you are complaining on being focused by two necros. WOW this is new, you think you are so great player you can stand against two other players at the same time. Sorry, but your argument is invalid. You can’t complain you are getting pwned when two players focuses you, this happens with any class, not just necromancers.

This isn’t about getting focused it is about what two necros do to one point in a team fight…. Right now necros can do a lot of stuff that no other class can touch lets take lock outs…. Mesmers have several traits designed around interrupts yet any interrupt Mesmer is useless because a team can get a terror necro that can interrupt/CC 10x more effectively than an interrupt Mesmer. When it comes to condition now even a non-dhumfire necro can put out every single condition and even if you use your condi cleanses you won’t lose them all and plus necro terror deals a crap ton of damage way more than what it should for a CC. (most other classes that have CC don’t get insane condition damage with that CC) And the necro is still pretty survivable say if they are running a 0/30/20/0/20 build and a rabid amulet.

Once again it is not about being focused by 2 necros at once they don’t need to focus they have way more in AOE than anyone else except maybe an HGH engi.

Playing as a necro myself and not playing the current rave that is the Dhuumfire build, I am currently playing a Deathshroud build. And I found that, I usually win when I start my CC chain before they can put enough condi pressure on me.

Even if they do get condis on me, I can just let it tick in DS allowing most of the damage to waste away.

Also Engineers definitely need Automated Response in order to not get rolled completely. The simple fact that Necros can flip the condis you put on them, back to you is what makes it hard for engies. Also, no stability.

@vicious & Jportell

Don’t debate OP status here please. That debate is ongoing in other threads, so go there.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss meaningful ways to counter the Necros without dedicating your whole build to Cleanses. 1v1 against a terror neco you need cleanses and stun breaks, and stability helps too, but this isn’t about 1v1 counters, because there are plenty of 1v1’s that are stronger than terror Necros.

With regard to teamfights… If you position correctly and have 1 player on your team that gears and traits to have optimal AoE cleanse, then you can negate a pair of Necros that burst. Is it hard? Yes. You are using one player to hard counter 2, so of course it is hard. It can be done though.

Teams got so dependent on Bunker Guardians because they were a requirement for so long and now that the AoE cleansing that Guardian+Ele provide is no longer sufficient against a team that is built to overload them (whether 2 necro or necro+engi or even Necro + trap ranger) its so unacceptable. Adapt. Most of why people are struggling is because they are rooted in the 10 months of stale meta that allowed Gurdian bunkers to dictate the core of every team’s strategy. Now those bunkers can’t work against certain comps, but people still insist that they need to be there. Change your strat, and you will find that you can make it work.

If it takes a special class with a special build setup to even have a chance of killing a necro, that’s a sure sign that the profession is OP and needs heavy nerfing.

jportell.2197:

vicious.5683:

jportell.2197:

The biggest reason necros are OP right now is because of dhummfire plus the new terror bonus… Its the issue of having 2 on every single team you face… You get feared for three seconds plus a butt load of damage

Engineer have the exact same trait with just 10 points instead of 30 and no one is complaining about it. So the problem, if there is one (I don’t think so) its terror damage, not duration on fears.

Besides, you are complaining on being focused by two necros. WOW this is new, you think you are so great player you can stand against two other players at the same time. Sorry, but your argument is invalid. You can’t complain you are getting pwned when two players focuses you, this happens with any class, not just necromancers.

This isn’t about getting focused it is about what two necros do to one point in a team fight…. Right now necros can do a lot of stuff that no other class can touch lets take lock outs…. Mesmers have several traits designed around interrupts yet any interrupt Mesmer is useless because a team can get a terror necro that can interrupt/CC 10x more effectively than an interrupt Mesmer. When it comes to condition now even a non-dhumfire necro can put out every single condition and even if you use your condi cleanses you won’t lose them all and plus necro terror deals a crap ton of damage way more than what it should for a CC. (most other classes that have CC don’t get insane condition damage with that CC) And the necro is still pretty survivable say if they are running a 0/30/20/0/20 build and a rabid amulet.

Once again it is not about being focused by 2 necros at once they don’t need to focus they have way more in AOE than anyone else except maybe an HGH engi.

You have 3 points in a match. The opposite team have 2 necros in middle, this mean they have just 3 ppl for the other 3 points. You can send 3 ppl to far point and 2 to home. Bum! you won the game.
Stay away from two necros, if you are so afraid, they have crap mobility.

oh, and I have bad news for you. You are the only one complaining about 0/30/20/0/20 necros. They have good defenses, but less damage than the 30/30/10 necros.

Aether McLoud.1975:

If it takes a special class with a special build setup to even have a chance of killing a necro, that’s a sure sign that the profession is OP and needs heavy nerfing.

Its a sign that the meta has shifted and nothing more. Anyone with a solid burst and 2 stun breaks has a puncher’s chance to kill the Terror Necros and a number of classes have pre-existing specs that are better 1v1. Guess what. Every class can build to burst and run 2 stun breakers, so there is nothing special about it.

There wasn’t a way to produce this kind of pressure with conditions combined with Ckittenil this patch, so naturally no one created builds to counter it before. That is the only reason you think this is special. There is nothing special or mysterious about how to beat the Necromancers. What worked before doesn’t work anymore, so you need to fit new tools into your comp to counter things that didn’t exist before.

Whoopdee Freaking Doo. Now go away and don’t post here anymore if you can’t be on topic and contribute some form of logical, intelligent substance.

rsq.3581:

I could take a player who has never touched a necro, set him up well, tell him to just throw his marks on a node during a team fight, go into DS and press every button. Absurdly, I might take this necro over a decent thief or warrior. Balance?

That could’ve been done pre patch with engi by your side too. Not much has changed when it comes to putting your AoE on a point, as Burning can be applied only on a single player. Two things that help with AoE pressure have been added. Torment(only 3 stacks, isn’t doing much damage, and is mostly used to cover other damaging conditions), and Spectral Wall. Weakness has certain effect on team fights, and is really strong, but back when I said that they shouldn’t buff weakness in they way they did, everybody went screaming at me of how it will finally be cool, and whatnot. That’s pretty much it.
Yes, you can epidemic all those condis, but bare in mind that epidemic is a long cast, and can easily be dodged. Hell, half of the conditions get cleansed by the time epidemic arrives…
Bare in mind that stability totally counters necro condi burst. Most of the necros aren’t even running boon removal anymore, because it got nerfed, and so we lost one fear source, and got 1 from Spetral Wall.
They should probably nerf Sigil of Paralyzation, because it increases duration of fears, and a lot of necros are using it for huge fear durations(they even don’t go for the burning, because it’s only single target).
Also, condi necros have terrible life force generation, which means they won’t be able to use DS for damage mitigation, and are very very squishy.
They are doing great damage, that’s true, but they don’t have any form of damage mitigation. No vigor, no stability, no invulnerability, no stealth, nothing. It’s all pure damage, and a thief can pick a necro in team fight and get him down quite easily. I’m telling you, a thief will destroy a necro in a team fight, simply because necro probably used some of his fear already, and has low life force with no way to mitigate huge single target damage a thief can dish out in a few seconds. A thief from my guild is picking down necros without much problems, as they’re very fragile to burst damage, especially when it also comes with huge amount of blinds or evades.

I consider necro before this patch to be balanced, Now saying that I don’t mean other classes were balanced before this patch.

Right now I’d say Warrior, Ranger, and maybe engi are around what should be the balance level. They are not all the same but they are not far off from eachother with some minor tweeks. Just about everyone else needs to come down, and by that I mean stronger specs because there are spec’s on some of the stronger classes that are likely near balanced.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Ckittenil

I’d actually be really interested on what that word once was before the curse filter.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Whoopdee Freaking Doo. Now go away and don’t post here anymore if you can’t be on topic and contribute some form of logical, intelligent substance.

Uh the old “You actually brought up a valid point which I can’t argue against so stop talking in this discussion” argument. Very mature.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Ckittenil

I’d actually be really interested on what that word once was before the curse filter.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Whoopdee Freaking Doo. Now go away and don’t post here anymore if you can’t be on topic and contribute some form of logical, intelligent substance.

Uh the old “You actually brought up a valid point which I can’t argue against so stop talking in this discussion” argument. Very mature.

1) It was CC —-— until

2) You said that it required a special class with a special build to counter a Necro. I pointed out that any class has the tools to counter a Necro and that it isn’t special, just different from what they had to do in the past. As far as I can see that is a very direct, very accurate rebuttal to your “valid point which I can’t argue against”. So again…

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Whoopdee Freaking Doo. Now go away and don’t post here anymore if you can’t be on topic and contribute some form of logical, intelligent substance.

Condi mesmer kills necros a lot more than they kill you : 3

Ken.9018:

I find necro easy to kill on my d/p + shortbow glass cannon thief

Same here, I don’t main thief but I’m a champ shadow and I’ve found necros 2nd easiest to deal with, because so many people rely on fear, I take the fear but then shadowstep right next to them which they don’t expect and start ticking at there hp and draining it so fast they don’t know what to do and I time when I expect them to do a skill and daze kitten out of em as well. Also gotta love powdered shot. Pretty much guarantees a stomp against necro and other classes as well.

uberkingkong.8041:

Ken.9018:

I find necro easy to kill on my d/p + shortbow glass cannon thief

Same here, I don’t main thief but I’m a champ shadow and I’ve found necros 2nd easiest to deal with, because so many people rely on fear, I take the fear but then shadowstep right next to them which they don’t expect and start ticking at there hp and draining it so fast they don’t know what to do and I time when I expect them to do a skill and daze kitten out of em as well. Also gotta love powdered shot. Pretty much guarantees a stomp against necro and other classes as well.

That would only work well on bad and ignorant Necromancers that put all their reliance on CC. A good Necromancer is incredibly hard to defeat by any Thief.

@vicious I am able to survive 1v1 and even kill the necro (do not run the 20/20/0/030 shatter build. I can also survive 2v1 against to necros for quite some time and have gotten complimented by the opposing teams necros on that survivability having said that, my build still revolves around whether or not we can survive the necros also a big issue is animations necros have the most sutble in gamw

Ignore the mighty troll.

Yes a high skill level guards with that kind of build is deadly, the pressure is insane the corrupt boon nerf really hurt this match up and the new spectral wall just does not work vs good players. Give the old corrupt boon back Ill give up the new spectral wall fear without a second thought for a non-nerfed corrupt boon

Berserker Guardian is not a hard counter to Necromancer. No matter what you may believe yourself to think, Xom.

Aether McLoud.1975:

If it takes a special class with a special build setup to even have a chance of killing a necro, that’s a sure sign that the profession is OP and needs heavy nerfing.

Awesome. Let’s get to nerfing those bunker Guardians then.

Proven.2854:

Aether McLoud.1975:

If it takes a special class with a special build setup to even have a chance of killing a necro, that’s a sure sign that the profession is OP and needs heavy nerfing.

Awesome. Let’s get to nerfing those bunker Guardians then.

Special class? I don’t know about you, but with a good build I can kill any bunker Guardian on any class.

At this point I’m literally forced to play my Necromancer to have a chance against other Necromancers in tournaments. Even against bad ones. I have to outplay each and every Necromancer I fight with a similar build, because it’s quite literally the only consistent thing I have to counter them with. Ranger fails hard, Engineer fails, Thief fails, Guardian fails, Warrior fails, infact the only other class that doesn’t fail is Mesmer.

Yes, we know how to kill bunker Guardians now. I can do it too without too much sweat. But it took time to make a balanced setup that also could take down the largest constant in GW2 PvP. And part of the reason they’re beaten is because they’re a very well known constant and so you already know what they’re going to do before they do it. Same with bunker Elementalists.

I feel that it’s currently the same way with Necro. I’ve had decent success just doing a few tweaks to my current builds.

I mean, what do people expect to happen when a class jumps up to tournament viable? Nerf Necros now, and they’re almost guaranteed to no longer be seen in tournaments ever again.

Xom.9264:

Yes a high skill level guards with that kind of build is deadly, the pressure is insane the corrupt boon nerf really hurt this match up and the new spectral wall just does not work vs good players. Give the old corrupt boon back Ill give up the new spectral wall fear without a second thought for a non-nerfed corrupt boon

Even good players get Feared into Spectral Wall. That plus the utility of the protection make it invaluable for the Necromancer that knows how to use it.

Corrupt Boon really has very little impact on this particular match up. It is more a matter of the Necromancer lacking hard defense (Blocks, Invulns, Evades). That Guardian burst is not defensibile for a Necro if properly timed and it can chew up a lot of their health bar.