Guild Wars 2

Hello,

before one engi starts to complain about the meta. I am an engi too and I am annoyed by the “so called” skilled players who just rely on that one trait. They drop from 100 to 20 in less than 15 seconds and then the decap kitten start. They eat everything you throw on them, but as a condition class you dont have enough condis to cover your burning thus they wont go down before a condi cleanse is up.

This trait is in line with:
- The warrior class in general (Anet 8% are not enough….or atleast cut the damage)
- Necro fear chain

Make engi immune to CC below 25% health or that we have a 50% reduced condition duration but this 1 trait carriers an entire build.

+ 1
remove all this condi imun traits/skills

or change them atleast to -40% condiduration or something like this

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Take Diamond-Skin, Berserker-Stance and the rest of hard-counters with it.

I agree or at least berserker stance should work like shield block, so that the warrior cannot attack during this time. This traits are gamechangers, a total noob can win against experienced players just due to that.
In a 1vs1 between engi/necro and an ele with diamond skin there is no chance that the first two classes can win. In such a scenario diamond skin is even more powerful compared to automated response. Something like this shouldnt be the game.

This is not rock, paper, scissor. (In whcih the warrior would be the swiss pocket knife)

HPLT.7132:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Take Diamond-Skin, Berserker-Stance and the rest of hard-counters with it.

I agree or at least berserker stance should work like shield block, so that the warrior cannot attack during this time. This traits are gamechangers, a total noob can win against experienced players just due to that.

Or just reduce dmg they do by x% for each stance active. I propose 10% for start. And yeah those perma condi immunity must go.

Emapudapus.1307:

HPLT.7132:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Take Diamond-Skin, Berserker-Stance and the rest of hard-counters with it.

I agree or at least berserker stance should work like shield block, so that the warrior cannot attack during this time. This traits are gamechangers, a total noob can win against experienced players just due to that.

Or just reduce dmg they do by x% for each stance active. I propose 10% for start. And yeah those perma condi immunity must go.

Exactly… The condition reduction should be limited to 80-90% on zerk-stance, or that it negates every condition-duration excluding the ones that are buffed (for e.g. by Lyssa-runes or traitlines).

I support the reduction from immunity to lower duration in general. I would even make an exception for zerker stance if it did this:

Berserker Stance (duration 8s, CD: 60s)
Immune to non-DOT conditions, take 1.5x damage from condis.

This is high-risk, high-reward. You risk getting DESTROYED by condis if you can’t control and go HAM on that condi-user. However, you also have a chance where their only defense is to dodge/block as they can’t spam weakness, chill, cripple, immob, fear, etc. on you.

Automated response doesn’t bother me too much as it is the ONLY chance an engie has against current necro. Diamond skin is something I never take personally (as mostly an ele) as it is either really good or useless. Perhaps some other kind of change would be warranted (-80% duration above 80% health or something).

Honestly, immunity and invulnerability of any type needs to scaled back a ton.
Not just engineers and their automatic shrinking and the condition immunity, but everything.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Except that zerk stance is an activated, small uptime skill. It can actually be played around, unlike the other passives which can be unbeatable if you’re pure condi.

From a different perspective though, are these skills just evidence of the devs not wanting people to play pure condi for dps? That could be a legitimate game balance strategy. Kinda funny to see this thread and see people complaining about tanky/condi builds in another.

Brigg.6189:

Except that zerk stance is an activated, small uptime skill. It can actually be played around, unlike the other passives which can be unbeatable if you’re pure condi.

From a different perspective though, are these skills just evidence of the devs not wanting people to play pure condi for dps? That could be a legitimate game balance strategy. Kinda funny to see this thread and see people complaining about tanky/condi builds in another.

I agree with this and I don’t main a warrior. Zerker stance may be too LONG, maybe if it had a duration of 4 seconds but a cooldown of 40 seconds instead, that’d be fine. The issue isn’t so much what it does, but how long it lasts at one time which causes serious issues. A warrior left unchecked can kill you in like 10 seconds if he wanted to. That’s why 8 seconds and long cooldown is worse than 4 seconds and shorter cooldown.

Agreed, although I don’t usually play full condi builds, but I know how these things can kitten off. Hard counters without any drawbacks are just not fun to play against.

Dagins.5163:

Agreed, although I don’t usually play any condi builds, but I know how these things can kitten off. Hard counters without any drawbacks are just not fun to play against.

Kinda like… Playing Minion Master and getting Moa’d. There are hard counters, then there are diamond counters, something any successful mmo shouldn’t really have. Its not fun to hit a wall making you entirely useless.

no, this trait is working as intended.
you have problem taking out an engineer with 25% health remaining?
bring a friend who deal non condition burst damage.

guild wars 2 is a team game.

I like how this turned into a nerf warrior thread

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no, this trait is working as intended.
you have problem taking out an engineer with 25% health remaining?
bring a friend who deal non condition burst damage.

guild wars 2 is a team game.

That isn’t how MMOs should be. Blocking people out because their “damage type” isnt the right one is a terrible design And only leads to frustration. Games aren’t made to be outright frustrating and poorly designed.

Agreed. Signed, engi main.

half of the forum is moaning about conditions being too strong and you want to remove the counters?
i wouldn’t dare read the forums with the flurry of hate flung Anets way if they removed condi counters.

ronpierce.2760:

Kinda like… Playing Minion Master and getting Moa’d. Its not fun to hit a wall making you entirely useless.

i shed a tear of joy every time i see a MM get moa’d, it serves them right for using an AI build! this is pvP

Another engi main who agrees to this. Engineers have been pretty good for a while now—their condi removal outside of AR (or an elixir build) is somewhat low, but we can stand on our own two feet.

ronpierce.2760:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no, this trait is working as intended.
you have problem taking out an engineer with 25% health remaining?
bring a friend who deal non condition burst damage.

guild wars 2 is a team game.

That isn’t how MMOs should be. Blocking people out because their “damage type” isnt the right one is a terrible design And only leads to frustration. Games aren’t made to be outright frustrating and poorly designed.

no, this is working as intended, because rocks scissors papers.

team game, remember?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no, this trait is working as intended.
you have problem taking out an engineer with 25% health remaining?
bring a friend who deal non condition burst damage.

guild wars 2 is a team game.

Wouldnt say anything but this guy will fullcap you with the CC he has. And since Engis relies I would rather see automated response go than the CC…

and regards rock paper scissors: Engi is like you need rock and paper to kill the scissors…so not a good example.

HPLT.7132:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no, this trait is working as intended.
you have problem taking out an engineer with 25% health remaining?
bring a friend who deal non condition burst damage.

guild wars 2 is a team game.

Wouldnt say anything but this guy will fullcap you with the CC he has. And since Engis relies I would rather see automated response go than the CC…

and regards rock paper scissors: Engi is like you need rock and paper to kill the scissors…so not a good example.

yup, because there are 8 unique professions in guild wars 2.

i dun play an engineer but i think that trait is fine as it is.

remember, the engineer must have 25% health for this to trigger.

Deimos, I’m just going to say it… Your sense of balance is terrible. You’re constantly defending broken unfun mechanics, and typically because you abuse them. Also this isn’t rock paper scissor. Its paper (conditions) can sometimes cover rock, or Rock (other) sometimes penetrates the paper. Rock can cause a gun (AR engi) to miss fire, or the gun can blow it to pieces, but pretty much always the gun destroys the paper without the paper even having a chance to blow away… That’s…. Not balance. No one likes Rock Paper Gun balance.

ronpierce.2760:

Deimos, I’m just going to say it… Your sense of balance is terrible. You’re constantly defending broken unfun mechanics, and typically because you abuse them. Also this isn’t rock paper scissor. Its paper (conditions) can sometimes cover rock, or Rock (other) sometimes penetrates the paper. Rock can cause a gun (AR engi) to miss fire, or the gun can blow it to pieces, but pretty much always the gun destroys the paper without the paper even having a chance to blow away… That’s…. Not balance. No one likes Rock Paper Gun balance.

like i said, there are 8 unique professions.
some professions will be better at some things.
some professions will be better counters to some professions.
and so on.

i do not play engineers, and i do not think this trait is broken. whether or not you agree with me does not matter. i just voice out what i think and that’s it.

like it or not, guild wars 2 is becoming rock scissors paper.
the last few patches made this obviously clear.

do adapt or be left out.

I wonder how hard people would cry if there was a immune to physical damage below 25% hp :/

Vuh.1328:

I wonder how hard people would cry if there was a immune to physical damage below 25% hp :/

That’s what I said. Let necromancers have a death magic trait that says under 20% hp, you’re immune to all non-condition damage.

100 bucks it would no longer be a “Rock paper scissors” issue.

This is the reason why I can’t stand Automated Response, Berserker Stance, and Diamond Skin, they basically guarantee a won 1v1 against condi classes. And it’s not the type of advantage that you can easily recover from, it’s a hard counter having to do with specific skills and builds. Because I’m a math oriented person here is an example. If a hambow is fighting a condimancer and doesn’t use B-Stance, let’s say the chance of winning is 50-50. Once the warrior uses the stance it goes to 80-20 or 90-10. This is too much IMO, condi classes shouldn’t have to completely avoid fights with certain builds.

These traits/skills do not guarantee you a win against Condi builds.

L2P.

Also, Condi bunkers are a boring joke, and the easiest way to play GW2.

- Drop debuff
- Kite/heal

^ you are now a ‘good’ player

Bring more power if you want to get through those skills easier than it already is.

ronpierce.2760:

Vuh.1328:

I wonder how hard people would cry if there was a immune to physical damage below 25% hp :/

That’s what I said. Let necromancers have a death magic trait that says under 20% hp, you’re immune to all non-condition damage.

100 bucks it would no longer be a “Rock paper scissors” issue.

i do not mind that.

20% health is quite low.
for a 28k health necro that would be below 5.6k health.

5.6k melts rather quickly to focused bleeding, burning, poison.
the trick is to apply them after the necro exhausted all condition removals.

Replace AR with Elixir C with a 30sec timer. So we convert all conditions to buffs and are killable again.

I would almost agree on ar…but then I remember without those hard counters conditions would be even worse than they are now. Until condi spam gets fixed I’m okay with keeping that stuff till then. These hard counterrs may be called cheesed but so are full condi builds

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i do not mind that.

20% health is quite low.
for a 28k health necro that would be below 5.6k health.

5.6k melts rather quickly to focused bleeding, burning, poison.
the trick is to apply them after the necro exhausted all condition removals.

You must be kidding. And what about people who have not only zero condi damage stat, but also zero abilities that apply damaging conditions (or at least in a reasonable way)? You will ask them to bring friends?

I can agree this game needs more hybrid builds, which would be a counter to this sort of traits/abilities, but hybrid builds with current game design are very weak.

bring friends is no argument in this game with no trinity

EVERY class should be able to do something vs everything – thats how the game is designed

and there is no stupid paper rock whatever design – thats so WoW and you guyz should start to let it rott where it is

and @ this deimos guy – stop posting your bullkitten you dont has any clue bout balancing or how any competive gameplay should be

Or at least make immunities decap points..all of them…i see mesmers on distorsion losing points while wars with endure pain/zerk stance (And even both) up capping them. Seems legit…endure pain + zerk stance (While spamming longbow kitten on point to force ppl out with all the adrenaline you’re getting from bs) = profit. Go try defend that point with shatter mesmer…lol

Same goes for ar, once it procs you start losing point until it stops, and this would probably solve another big tpvp problem known as “Decap engi trolling your close 24/7” because you know…“I’m bunker and you can’t kill me but i can still chain-kb+immobilize you out and decap, you’re up and i’m up…but you already lost…and soon or later i’m going to full cap you kittening point too if you don’t call for backup”

Deimos, i hope you get abducted by aliens! If you are trolling people on this forum you have done a good job and succeeded. Stop while it is still fun! If you are not trolling people you should just go take a hike because as ron said then your sense of balance is beyond kittened.

I know you play warrior, so let me make an example. All other professions get a trait that makes them immune to power damage under 25% hp. You are running with power based weapons on your warrior which makes it impossible for you to kill any of these other professions. Would this be fun for you? Yes you could run a condi setup instead, or bring a friend but 100% immunity is never good for anything and destroys the balance of Guild Wars 2 PVP, even for casuals like you.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ronpierce.2760:

Vuh.1328:

I wonder how hard people would cry if there was a immune to physical damage below 25% hp :/

That’s what I said. Let necromancers have a death magic trait that says under 20% hp, you’re immune to all non-condition damage.

100 bucks it would no longer be a “Rock paper scissors” issue.

i do not mind that.

20% health is quite low.
for a 28k health necro that would be below 5.6k health.

5.6k melts rather quickly to focused bleeding, burning, poison.
the trick is to apply them after the necro exhausted all condition removals.

Yeah but couple that with something similar to healing signet, adrenal health and boon regen Try melting that 5.6k health with focus bleeding, burning and poison.

You would need permanent burning and poison plus 1-3 stacks of bleeding. By the time you have that up the necromancer will have some condi clears ready.

I don’t see endure pain/zerk stance as comparable to AR. Those skills have a time limit and a longish CD. They are also (mostly) activated abilities so there is a degree of player skill involved.

Yasha.5963:

I don’t see endure pain/zerk stance as comparable to AR. Those skills have a time limit and a longish CD. They are also (mostly) activated abilities so there is a degree of player skill involved.

Its not like the sustain of warriors due to healing signet is already crazy like kitten. Remember that Berserker stance also blocks blinds, thus it is 20x harder to kite a warrior, which can kill for example an engenieer (w/o AR) in a pindown+ stun chain. The Warrior can make couple of mistakes and will still win, not to mention what happens if you face a skilled warrior.
And engis still have a decent chance against warriors…just look at mesmers – From a whole shatter a warrior drops maybe 20-25% while 1 hit with the hammer or shortbow puts the mesmer in serious danger. So please dont refer to warrior when it comes to skill…this class has no high risk high rewards.

However this thread is about Automated response…which is is a free ticket against condi classes. I know that it is still possible to kill the engi but it becomes substantially more difficult when this trait is used.

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

djooceboxblast.9876:

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

Must be same feeling like beeing chain feared form 100 to 0 by only one necro.

Lupanic.6502:

djooceboxblast.9876:

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

Must be same feeling like beeing chain feared form 100 to 0 by only one necro.

If that happens to you a lot you must be really bad!
Also, try run a stun break or some condi cleanse – BOTH WORK!
My conditions dont work for 8-10 seconds, so your situation is a whole lot better.

Lupanic.6502:

djooceboxblast.9876:

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

Must be same feeling like beeing chain feared form 100 to 0 by only one necro.

I haven’t been chain feared from 100 to 0 since they nerfed dhumfire and bleeds and stopped walking int othe spectral wall all the time(altho the guardian wall still function like i’m a moth and it’s a lamp)

Developer Instructions:

1. Delete Automated Response from the game.
2. Move Elixir Infused Bombs from inventions to alchemy.
3. New inventions gm trait: Minelayer [Drop 2 mines when using a gadget and 1 mine when using a gadget toolbelt skill.].

HPLT.7132:

Yasha.5963:

I don’t see endure pain/zerk stance as comparable to AR. Those skills have a time limit and a longish CD. They are also (mostly) activated abilities so there is a degree of player skill involved.

Its not like the sustain of warriors due to healing signet is already crazy like kitten. Remember that Berserker stance also blocks blinds, thus it is 20x harder to kite a warrior, which can kill for example an engenieer (w/o AR) in a pindown+ stun chain. The Warrior can make couple of mistakes and will still win, not to mention what happens if you face a skilled warrior.
And engis still have a decent chance against warriors…just look at mesmers – From a whole shatter a warrior drops maybe 20-25% while 1 hit with the hammer or shortbow puts the mesmer in serious danger. So please dont refer to warrior when it comes to skill…this class has no high risk high rewards.

However this thread is about Automated response…which is is a free ticket against condi classes. I know that it is still possible to kill the engi but it becomes substantially more difficult when this trait is used.

Warriors are extremely strong for various reasons, but zerker stance and endure pain are activated skills that can be powerful if used at the correct time, wasted if used at the wrong moment, and have counter plays. That is how every powerful skill should be.

AR is permanent zerker stance while under 25% HP that is passively applied. Its far more powerful and requires zero skill to use. That is the kind of skill I would prefer not to see in game.

Perhaps it could be brought in line with bark skin (ranger trait) by reducing duration by 50%.

djooceboxblast.9876:

Lupanic.6502:

djooceboxblast.9876:

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

Must be same feeling like beeing chain feared form 100 to 0 by only one necro.

If that happens to you a lot you must be really bad!
Also, try run a stun break or some condi cleanse – BOTH WORK!
My conditions dont work for 8-10 seconds, so your situation is a whole lot better.

My condi cleanse is not useable during fear, maybe yours do not know. Mine is not working like all skills but stun break.

And maybe I am really bad but you can also use stun break and teleport yourself away from your warrior friends.

Vuh.1328:

Lupanic.6502:

djooceboxblast.9876:

Oh the joy of being smashed in by 2 hammer warriors with zerker stance as a necro in a tournament game! The feeling of being kitten D while chained and able to do nothing about it!

Must be same feeling like beeing chain feared form 100 to 0 by only one necro.

I haven’t been chain feared from 100 to 0 since they nerfed dhumfire and bleeds and stopped walking int othe spectral wall all the time(altho the guardian wall still function like i’m a moth and it’s a lamp)

I play a condi engineer and some necros send the condis back to me. Fear me and gg. If they feel funny they corrupt my boons for much more fun.

And it is sooo hard not to walk into the spectral wall while beeing feared into the spectral wall direction :/

ronpierce.2760:

Deimos, I’m just going to say it… Your sense of balance is terrible. You’re constantly defending broken unfun mechanics, and typically because you abuse them. Also this isn’t rock paper scissor. Its paper (conditions) can sometimes cover rock, or Rock (other) sometimes penetrates the paper. Rock can cause a gun (AR engi) to miss fire, or the gun can blow it to pieces, but pretty much always the gun destroys the paper without the paper even having a chance to blow away… That’s…. Not balance. No one likes Rock Paper Gun balance.

+1

This thread again? You’re not able to kill ar engi? Change to power engi, istead of condi. Conditions are hard counter to anti dps bunkers, AR is hard counter to conditions.

Do you see thiefs crying about unkillable guardians? Or does mesmer do that? Is that much different?

Without condi immunities like that we will be back in the condi spam zero skill meta wich is terrible and not fun.At least now you can even see some power necros.Bads will never adapt and rather qq though.There is a reason Anet started ading condition immunities and the reason for that is they kitten up and let condition spam out of control paired with low risk/high reward ratio allowing them to gu full bunker while at it.

The day condition will require 3 stats to be effective like power counterparts i will be happy to see them go but absolutely not in the current state.Condition builds are still too effective and need more nerfs or hardcounters.Without them the condition removals are never enough thats how broken condition spam is.

PS: The game is not only top lvl team q.Condis are still too strong in roaming wvw,duels and hotjoin where 99% of the population of this game plays so get out of your high horese team q in wich you landed only for abusing such broken mechanics in the first place.These “top pvp players” make me laugh.I bet in a 1v1 scenario they will only bite he dust to condi spam or the are the ones doing it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ronpierce.2760:

Deimos, I’m just going to say it… Your sense of balance is terrible. You’re constantly defending broken unfun mechanics, and typically because you abuse them. Also this isn’t rock paper scissor. Its paper (conditions) can sometimes cover rock, or Rock (other) sometimes penetrates the paper. Rock can cause a gun (AR engi) to miss fire, or the gun can blow it to pieces, but pretty much always the gun destroys the paper without the paper even having a chance to blow away… That’s…. Not balance. No one likes Rock Paper Gun balance.

like i said, there are 8 unique professions.
some professions will be better at some things.
some professions will be better counters to some professions.
and so on.

i do not play engineers, and i do not think this trait is broken. whether or not you agree with me does not matter. i just voice out what i think and that’s it.

like it or not, guild wars 2 is becoming rock scissors paper.
the last few patches made this obviously clear.

do adapt or be left out.

Sorry mate but you need to stop posting for good, how about you play something besides Warrior and then come back to the forums after a few months, learn the game stop making posts like you know what your talking about you don’t. You have barely left hot-joins and your understanding of the game has been made clear by your posts. You have great deal to learn about other classes and how the meta works in Team Que and even Solo Que where your real PvP is.

Divus.3175:

Do you see thiefs crying about unkillable guardians?

Actually DPS guard is the natural enemy of thieves. If thieves were fire pokémon, then DPS guards would be water pokémon.