Guild Wars 2

DiogoSilva.7089:

The problem with party support is the lack of intrastructure that supports it.

In other games, you can target allies and use skills on them, but the devs didn’t want players in GW2 to spend their time watching health bars. That’s fine. However, instead of creating a new, more visceral mechanic, they have completely scrapped it, and party support was left to aoe skills and nothing else, with very few exceptions.

To start, it would be interesting if there were a lot more aoe support skills that would only affect “other allies”, not yourself. Second, more auto-targetting skills like the guardian’s meditation (?) that teleports to ally with the lowest health and restores them. This can be expanded into a mechanic that allows you to automatically target allies without spending time clicking on them, so that the combat can remain visceral.

they should have some support skill affect 900 range in a cone of 30-40 degree wide in front of the players. This promote skill facing to land your support ability and also fix not having to target 1 player instead of having it a meager 300 radius that no sane players will stack with you.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

im going to say it again gw2 is not about teamplay is about communication and awareness wich p much if u wana be good in all games u have to have that but in gw2 is needed more since is more 1v1 2v2.
the only support in this game is staff guardian and aura sharing all the other things every class can do it by themselves

Teamplay is also an essential part of gw2 alongside with communication and awareness. Teamplay get overshadowed by the other 2 as how face your hp can go from 100 to 0 and from 1 to 80 in matter of secs and how some aoe cleaves are part of it.

Edit: Thief venom share can also be a strong support build if aoe cleaves are not that strong. Aoe need to deal overall less dmg then single atks so that players can choose when to use an aoe and when to use a single target atk. If this changes goes through, eles need some skill change to have some more single target or just have some of the strong aoe tone down so that it will only be a choice to be used during a heavy stacking occur.

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

im going to say it again gw2 is not about teamplay is about communication and awareness wich p much if u wana be good in all games u have to have that but in gw2 is needed more since is more 1v1 2v2.
the only support in this game is staff guardian and aura sharing all the other things every class can do it by themselves

Teamplay is also an essential part of gw2 alongside with communication and awareness. Teamplay get overshadowed by the other 2 as how face your hp can go from 100 to 0 and from 1 to 80 in matter of secs and how some aoe cleaves are part of it.

Edit: Thief venom share can also be a strong support build if aoe cleaves are not that strong. Aoe need to deal overall less dmg then single atks so that players can choose when to use an aoe and when to use a single target atk. If this changes goes through, eles need some skill change to have some more single target or just have some of the strong aoe tone down so that it will only be a choice to be used during a heavy stacking occur.

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

Nail on the head.

To much spam, not enough tactics.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Do you know why the holy trinity was removed from GW2? The devs have said it was removed because of casuals, because of pug players, because of solo players. Ironically, this hasn’t been helping them at all in pvp.

it’s much more plausible they were thinking only of pve. especially if we consider how sad the state of pvp infrastructure is atm.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

im going to say it again gw2 is not about teamplay is about communication and awareness wich p much if u wana be good in all games u have to have that but in gw2 is needed more since is more 1v1 2v2.
the only support in this game is staff guardian and aura sharing all the other things every class can do it by themselves

Teamplay is also an essential part of gw2 alongside with communication and awareness. Teamplay get overshadowed by the other 2 as how face your hp can go from 100 to 0 and from 1 to 80 in matter of secs and how some aoe cleaves are part of it.

Edit: Thief venom share can also be a strong support build if aoe cleaves are not that strong. Aoe need to deal overall less dmg then single atks so that players can choose when to use an aoe and when to use a single target atk. If this changes goes through, eles need some skill change to have some more single target or just have some of the strong aoe tone down so that it will only be a choice to be used during a heavy stacking occur.

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

I just did a premade team with pugs i recruited on channel. We start of slowly, then we change the build to fit the team from what they play on their soloq. We soon learn to team work, combo and take out priority target. So there sure is team work like how i set up a immobilize for my warrior to bullcharge rush and how i remove condition for him to keep up on the target. This are just some of the example.

Defektive.7283:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Juan Ignacio.8903:

im going to say it again gw2 is not about teamplay is about communication and awareness wich p much if u wana be good in all games u have to have that but in gw2 is needed more since is more 1v1 2v2.
the only support in this game is staff guardian and aura sharing all the other things every class can do it by themselves

Teamplay is also an essential part of gw2 alongside with communication and awareness. Teamplay get overshadowed by the other 2 as how face your hp can go from 100 to 0 and from 1 to 80 in matter of secs and how some aoe cleaves are part of it.

Edit: Thief venom share can also be a strong support build if aoe cleaves are not that strong. Aoe need to deal overall less dmg then single atks so that players can choose when to use an aoe and when to use a single target atk. If this changes goes through, eles need some skill change to have some more single target or just have some of the strong aoe tone down so that it will only be a choice to be used during a heavy stacking occur.

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

Nail on the head.

To much spam, not enough tactics.

Yeah i agree with too much spam, aoe and spam need to be tone down.

@Juan Ignacio:

You get less team work in soloq as every1 play to be more self sufficient, but when you play in a team orientated build, you weakness and strength become more obvious, without team work like what i experienced with my team pug pre made that without teamwork and coordination we can’t win even against the self sustian group of pugs. When we get out stuff together, we were a much stronger force that easily dominated the self sustain pugs and now gave a good fight to other premeds.

oh i played in many teams im not just talking out my kitten i just stop caring like 4months ago when i realiced that the game was going nowhere .. i remember one time that i was like just standing still on my guardian on foefire and i was like “look guys im helping im helping im support” and i was pressing each skill each second.

lol, skill have to have more weightage and less spammy.

LonelyReaper.8075:

lol, skill have to have more weightage and less spammy.

Except it won’t happen at this point because it would require them to change virtually every skill in the game(viable or non viable currently), rip up the trait system and start again basically (you can’t just balance skills when their effect is so dependant on traits). You can’t just say “so change it for sPvP only” because PvE and PvP need to be mostly the same and there is no way they’re going to change everything for such a small community (their own fault really) and risk losing their much larger casual PvE audience. So…what do we do? I don’t know.

milo.6942:

emon.1863:

milo.6942:

gw1: 8 skills per person
gw2: minimum 15 + skill-like hidden trait effects + skill-like hidden weapon sigil effects + skill-like hidden armor rune effects.

In Gw1 were hidden Arrmor runes and weapons sigil + in gw2 you see 4 skills (or more) on what weapon is you opponent using.

i chose my words carefully: the effects are skill-like in gw2, whereas they were decidedly less powerful in gw1. imagine spawning a pet when you get hit in gw1. unreal.

First of all, you can not compare GW1 and GW2 ,as they are diffrent games.
I didn’t like GW2 PvP firstly, but then i got “in to it” and personaly i think it is not so bad (again, it is differnt as gw1). Gw2 is more action req. as gw1, so at the end it req. more teamplay. My guess you are playing on low lvl tpvp and making your opinion on it. Watching Tournament(EU, i find NA kind of …dunno – boring) are interessting and think gw2 will be in esport (some day).
In Conquest gamemode you need lot more as just “Burst, Stomp,Rez”, you have to send you team members to cap/decap enemy point, you have to know who and when is more effective,etc.

I see i am not alone with this. So what exactly should be changed to improve gw2 teamfights. What is needed and what should get deleted from the game. Actually, only adding things would make it too complicated. Thats why i think some things should get changed.

If i was a dev that has the time to make gw2 an esports game, i would make pvp even more independent from pve and change like the whole thing. Then give people a pvp test server and look what they think. Then improve it, balance it a bit and include it on all pvp. If it works fine (if i am happy with it) i would think about including some parts in pve too.

My Ideas about this are the following:
(reminder: atm gw2 pvp only)

1.1: We already see our teammates on a panel on the left side of our screen. We see Boons and Conditions. Thats good and important for teamplay. Now please let us select teammates by clicking on that name.

1.2: Remove most of the stunbreakers, conditionremovals and boons cast on myself and let us cast them on our teammates.

1.3: Look at the Traits. They should fit this system well.

That would be a lot of work. But i think when you use an pvp test server, create an forum for the community (and please something like 3 posts/day only for each account – to cut off spamposts) it should work. And player that actually play your game can improve it i think.

How could this look like?

Example: Necromancer Plague Signet

Plague Signet:
passive: Improves your condition damage by 180
active: (Chain, max. 3sec between 1 & 2)
1) Transfers all conditions from allies within 1200 range to yourself.
2) Transfers Burning, Bleeding and Poison to your foe.

Example2: Consume Conditions

Consume Conditions: CD 60sec. Activation time: 1sec.
Cast on the Necromancer: Feast on your bleeding, burning and poison, gaining health for each one consumed.
Cast on ally: Feast on all your ally’s conditions, he gains health for each one consumed. Cooldown 1/3.

Thats just an example. Ofcourse you could think about healing the necro for consuming the condition on the ally. That would be a pretty good mechanic i think. What i want show with this is: It’s easy too see that it is always better to use it on your ally than on yourself. And if this ally has the same issue with his healing skill, he will use it on you as well. This way we would get something that can be called Teamplay.

Next thing is, that confusion should not:
a) be easy to apply (short duration pls)
b) easy to cleanse (only by allies please!)
c) last so long
d) stack! Only refresh the time that it lasts.
e) do a lot, A LOT more damage then

I played a mesmer in gw1&2 and confusion does what empathie, backfire and visions of regret were doing in gw1. Punish your foe with damage when he does anything.
Thats an amazing concept for pvp teamplay because the deadly assassin dies first if she ignores this and because of that, she wants the monk to cleanse it first and fast =teamplay.
In pvp the thief cleanse it by himself or ignores it. What are those 150 – 900 damage compared to the backstab hit a thief can do? Pls. don’t argue about this if you never played gw1. An assassin with empathie and visions was almost instant dead if she wants to burst then.

In one Sentence: To improve teamplay please make confusion almost impossible to cleanse by yourself, set it on short duration (no way to keep it up all the time alone) and let teammates cleanse it.
If it is not cleansed, the confused player should think about doing nothing or run away. He should really want somebody that helps him with that.

Same thing with other Conditions. At the moment the no damage conditions are nothing that somebody really fears.. in my opinion they should get way more important.
For example chilled. First, it should extend the activation time of any skill by for example 100%. 100b too. Ofcourse, the dps is 1/2 then. Would make it strong and it should get cleansed by your teammates. To make it not too strong it should not stack, but refresh the lasting time when applied. You should not be able to cleanse this by your own, or if you do so, with a penalty like longer cooldown(example2) (+ the x2 casting time you need to do this) on this skill. You should want somebody of your team to cleanse it, or somebody of your team that has a lightfield to shoot through it.
Where our next problem is. There are classes that have both: Combofields and finishers. Reduce this. It should more rely on teamwork. You maybe say now: Ele (for example) would be too bad without its healing by waterfield&finisher. Thats not true. Don’t forget that it’s for example the necro that heals him and then, it’s the necro that has problems with healing. But the necro can be safed from the ele by casting mistform on him. Idea behind this: Ele is good when a teammate gets a burst from for example a warrior and necro is good when a teammmate suffers from to many conditions(pressure damage from opposing team). Btw the mist form could be like:

Example3: Mist Form

Mist Form: 1sec activation time. 40sec CD.
Morph your ally into an invulnerable, vaporous mist for 3sec. Only 1sec on the Lord.

And thats the next point. We come to good teams. I mean, our Ele now has waterfields or finisher (depending on the wepon he chose for example). If the ele got only the fields, a necro with fields would not be the best companion, (i would add some finisher to the dagger, not to the axe, and would make sure that the axe is used with wells(fields) and the dagger makes no sense with wells (for example because it perfectly boosts spectral skills).
So what is the best teammate for our ele? Somebody with projectile and leapfinisher, like the mesmer(which has less etheral fields if he decides to use finisher), would do great when well played with the ele.. in a team. If they would fight almost alone, not using their abilitys for their mates, let them die, they should not stay a chance against a good team. The best in this is, that even on low lvl team pvp, the team would care about each other, they would work together. Thats the idea behind.
I could go on and on with this.. explain how important skills like the active of the Inspiration Signet would become. But my post is already really long.. And i don’t want to write a wall of text if theres nobody who thinks this is, maybe even in some little points, possible.

I think if a dev wants the community to create another version of every spell, it would take a week and we have many versions of each one so that they already only need to pick the best out of it and lookover for balancing. And all those balancing mimimi where gone (in theory ofc) because if i play necro, and think ele mistform is imba.. im not screaming because i am actually the guy that gets it most times
And a five ele team, would be very bad against conditiondamage then.. so everything would be fine.

What do you think about this idea?
All examples are just examples. So don’t argue about power but about the “cast on allies” idea..

Edit: and sorry for posting 3 times.. i wasn’t able to post it all at once

Juan Ignacio.8903:

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

I don’t understand why people think this. Yes, in a pug/low-tier team environment it is very much like this, but I don’t understand how people think there is no potential for a highly coordinated team to do things other than “spam dmg or spam condis.”

emon.1863:

First of all, you can not compare GW1 and GW2 ,as they are diffrent games.

one is a sequel to the other. in what universe are they incomparable.

emon.1863:

My guess you are playing on low lvl tpvp and making your opinion on it.

i played to rank 30 exclusively in tournaments with various teams right after game came out.

emon.1863:

In Conquest gamemode you need lot more as just “Burst, Stomp,Rez”, you have to send you team members to cap/decap enemy point, you have to know who and when is more effective,etc.

yes. and that is exactly the skill ceiling in this game. it’s not nothing, and it was fun for a while, but after some months it becomes obvious that it’s very shallow.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

no, there is no backline mid front there is no weak guy that needs protection there is no empower that guy so he 2shots people there is no strategy there is no “ima tackle this guy so u cast ur nuke kinda thing” . there is just different ways to do the same do dmg or spam condis.

I actually offered a more or less simple way to get this. Actually a way to help your teammate before he goes down. I think with “casts on allies” you would come to that “keep your ressources” thing. Because if one of your teammates is under pressure your team could waste all it’s healing skills or just use one or two and have still something left if they pick another target then. This way you could play something that lowers his cooldowns on these helping skills, makes yourself more fragile (because defensive abilitys have longer cd when cast on yourself-look at my examples i already posted) These more fragile guy is our Backline. And people that want to do more damage are our frontline and somebody that wants to shut down should use conditions like chilled* or confusion* (necro or mesmer for example, thats the midline!)
*after making them more important
…
Hope actually somebody thinks about my post and think even further. It could form the gw2 pvp new and make it the game it actually wants to be. An esport game.
And yes, what is really important is that they differ even more between pve and pvp. Why should skills not work different in pvp?!
And btw.. if i would play pve more.. i really would wish more teamfighting like this in pve as well..

There is teamplay, but as it’s been said, it’s a fps-type kind of teamplay.

Lowering the pace of the game and the visual effects would be a huge step in helping teamplay and spot the areas that need rework.

IMO its there.. just most people cant process fast enough due to pace.

Personally, I see the older, slower paced style of most pvp games as boring now. Really, all it was was remembering and executing scripts.. nothing perceptive or reactive about it.

Studying ‘the current meta’ and identifying which of 10 cookie cutter setups you are facing because the pool of possible skills is overwhelming is not dynamic play, its script memorization and execution.. nothing more.

Seeing what is happening and reacting to it in a twitchy fashion is much more engaging, IMO.

But hey, thats just me.. to each his own.

Punkins.2087:

Personally, I see the older, slower paced style of most pvp games as boring now. Really, all it was was remembering and executing scripts.. nothing perceptive or reactive about it.

Seeing what is happening and reacting to it in a twitchy fashion is much more engaging, IMO.

I take it you never played backline infuse in GW1? As someone who did, it was very much a twitchy role, though so was mesmer and to a lesser extent, ranger. Thinking about old pvp games is simply incorrect because GW1 is not your typical pvp game. It sounds pretentious but it’s the truth.

We now have the developers taking cues from LoL and the like when they should have consolidated their own style of combat. The reason why GW1 did not reach esport status was because first, the scene was different akittens peak and second, it didn’t have the casual base large enough to accommodate it.

ANET: PLEASE IMPROVE TEAMPLAY IN PVP!

Classes are too indipendent, this is true.

A way to improve teamplay could be improve/rework combo fields effect.

Basically combo fields are a great idea but for now aren’t very effective in teamfight. To promote cooperation their effect should be stronger in fight. For ex. If an ally did a finisher on another ally’s field, the effect could be more powerful instead of doing this effect by himself (if possibile)

Anet could create different finisher for different effect to promote a better cooperation and a deeper teamplay.

Flowerpower.6795:

Is it just me or is there actually no real teamplay?
i mean.. there are rarely 5v5 fights. Most times it’s 1v1 2v2 3v3 and the only thing that you have to coordinate is your selected target and bursts, rez and finish.
Guild Wars 1 pvp was so different. Even in randomgroups you tried to help each other survive or powerblock, diversion the monk to give your teammates a chance to burst.. in gw2 theres nothing like this 0o
Actually the most important thing is to do damage.. things like chill are a bad joke…
The mesmer: Mass invisbility and Illusions with random interrupts does not need any skill in my opinion. A well played domination mesmer in gw1 was such fun and usefull in teamfights..
kitten i think when it comes to pvp gw1 is still sooooo much better than gw2..
How do you think could arenanet change this? They wanted an esport game. I don’t think gw2 will ever be one unless they change some points drastically
It’s more fun to watch old wc3 replays than watching teamfights in gw2.

imo complain about lack of teamplay is an indication that one got stuck at recognizing hybrid nature of gw2 professions for individual gameplay, but fall short of skills for taking advantage of it for teamplay.

each time teammate went down and you didnt teamplay (peel, heal) you missed on game. hybrid does mean that you can be everything, but not at all that you have to be alone. a more complex game with hybrid is that you play multiple roles by situation, you dps when enemy’s low, you heal when alli’s low, and you make a hard choice when both, things like this. unlike holy trinity, where you are stuck in a single mode, you have to switch and adjust. this is sure harder, but its opposite of boring.

as of more cc, that was my immediate impression too, but thats wrong. what else would you have, wow rugue style chain cc? when whole combat degrades to rng of who split second hits cc first? every other wow post is about cc killing skill and game. gw2 has many more smaller cc’s and it takes more work, you have to cast them many times, in smart combinations, possibly swapping with allis, but hey, thats what skilled combat is, as opposed of chain-cc-got-no-chance one shot combat.

gesho.9468:

Flowerpower.6795:

Is it just me or is there actually no real teamplay?
i mean.. there are rarely 5v5 fights. Most times it’s 1v1 2v2 3v3 and the only thing that you have to coordinate is your selected target and bursts, rez and finish.
Guild Wars 1 pvp was so different. Even in randomgroups you tried to help each other survive or powerblock, diversion the monk to give your teammates a chance to burst.. in gw2 theres nothing like this 0o
Actually the most important thing is to do damage.. things like chill are a bad joke…
The mesmer: Mass invisbility and Illusions with random interrupts does not need any skill in my opinion. A well played domination mesmer in gw1 was such fun and usefull in teamfights..
kitten i think when it comes to pvp gw1 is still sooooo much better than gw2..
How do you think could arenanet change this? They wanted an esport game. I don’t think gw2 will ever be one unless they change some points drastically
It’s more fun to watch old wc3 replays than watching teamfights in gw2.

imo complain about lack of teamplay is an indication that one got stuck at recognizing hybrid nature of gw2 professions for individual gameplay, but fall short of skills for taking advantage of it for teamplay.

each time teammate went down and you didnt teamplay (peel, heal) you missed on game. hybrid does mean that you can be everything, but not at all that you have to be alone. a more complex game with hybrid is that you play multiple roles by situation, you dps when enemy’s low, you heal when alli’s low, and you make a hard choice when both, things like this. unlike holy trinity, where you are stuck in a single mode, you have to switch and adjust. this is sure harder, but its opposite of boring.

as of more cc, that was my immediate impression too, but thats wrong. what else would you have, wow rugue style chain cc? when whole combat degrades to rng of who split second hits cc first? every other wow post is about cc killing skill and game. gw2 has many more smaller cc’s and it takes more work, you have to cast them many times, in smart combinations, possibly swapping with allis, but hey, thats what skilled combat is, as opposed of chain-cc-got-no-chance one shot combat.

Why are you bringing up WoW? No one is talking about that game. Why do you feel the need to attack a position that we never represented? Did you even play GW1?

i’m just going to comment again about the 2 types of people posting here, and how they are failing to communicate

• those who played gw1 pvp
• those who have not

in particular it worries me that people post references to wow so often when discussing gw2. these are often the people who think gw2 pvp is great or at least worthwhile. and i bet it really is in comparison to other games they’ve played.

the other people are those like myself that have experienced gw1 pvp and recognize significant steps backwards from the original game.

people keep saying that i don’t understand the depth of gw2 combat, and they try to explain it to me like i’ve no idea how to be competitive in this game. i assure you it’s not the case. i’m aware of all the things you say. they all existed in gw1 — and much more as well.

it’s just not a good system for teamwork like they had in gw1. and it’s depressing that they casualized the game so much. but if they hadn’t, all of you wouldn’t be here. so i guess gg anet. way to go.

Paradoxine.8192:

Why are you bringing up WoW? No one is talking about that game. Why do you feel the need to attack a position that we never represented? Did you even play GW1?

there has been multiple postings in this thread that “independent classes undermine teamplay”.

im saying:

whats more interesting?

purist classes team-play:
player1: dps, dps, dps, dps….
player2: heal, heal, heal….

VS

hybrid classes teamplay:
player1: dps, heal self, dps, heal alli, dps, dps…
player2: as diverse as player1

hybrid class and independence doesnt mean rstricting teamplay, but making it (harder) and interesting

gesho.9468:

Paradoxine.8192:

Why are you bringing up WoW? No one is talking about that game. Why do you feel the need to attack a position that we never represented? Did you even play GW1?

there has been multiple postings in this thread that “independent classes undermine teamplay”.

im saying:

whats more interesting?

purist classes team-play:
player1: dps, dps, dps, dps….
player2: heal, heal, heal….

VS

hybrid classes teamplay:
player1: dps, heal self, dps, heal alli, dps, dps…
player2: as diverse as player1

hybrid class and independence doesnt mean rstricting teamplay, but making it (harder) and interesting

i know this wasn’t really directed at me, but the issue is not that a class can heal and dps at the same time. it’s not about heal, and it’s not about dps. it’s about reliance on your teammates for something.

milo.6942:

i know this wasn’t really directed at me, but the issue is not that a class can heal and dps at the same time. it’s not about heal, and it’s not about dps. it’s about reliance on your teammates for something.

say anything you’d rely on teammate in trinity teamplay model and ill reply: but you could and in fact should do the same with hybrid teamplay, its just you dont have to do this all the time.