Guild Wars 2

Over the past weeks, this whole PvP forums has been filled with hate and complaints against the turret engineer build. Everytime somebody asks for a counter or a way to deal with them, the usual answer is just “avoid them ,rotate around them” or “if you can’t beat them, join them” i’ve even heard of people suggesting switching to staff ele to deal with multiple turret engineers.

My question is, why is one of the main counters- The condition necromancer, never mentioned? Why is the suggestion to switch over to an elementalist instead of necromancer when you run into teams of turret engi’s?
Are necro’s really THAT bad in their current state, that another build is better to handle the ONLY class they counter? Or am I just misinformed on build match-ups?

Nah dude, you’re just dealing with ignorance. Condi builds destroy mets engis and will continue to do so. I’d throw condi ranger and condi warrior into the hard counter list as well.

I’ve been playing turret engineer for the first time ever last night, and I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers. It sure is a counter to turret engi, but the match-up is nowhere as hard as against my celestial engineer, even with EG.

Sabre.8627:

My question is, why is one of the main counters- The condition necromancer, never mentioned?

I think I can answer this

You do not see many Condition Necromancers, if at all nowadays… Reason why is not that hard to find – there is nearly no use for it…
It is tough to play, not as much as a teamfighter and Conditions Cleanses are numerous nowadays, so more than often you will find people switch to Power Necro, which is somewhat easier, does not rely on Conditions to get damage off and can actually cause a lot of pressure to the set-meta…

Not just that, but PoC and Turrets do not go well together, as they are capable of body-blocking as well as CC-ing said Necromancer, who cannot escape well once CC’d… The new FitG has solved this issue to me personally a bit, but it stops there

Rerolling specifically for a Turret Engineer, while nearly all professions and builds are able to deal with nearly all Engineer specs in one way or another is simply not done… Babysitting a Necro is also not something that most people are capable off, let alone in a Solo-Enviroment

Besides, as I read the complaints silently, I notice that nearly no one complains about the spec being unkillable – it isn’t, even the recently mentioned Decap Engineer was not unkillable, what is however discussed is the ease of play, the reward for stacking multiple Turret Engineers and it being incredibly effective in SoloQ

Where do I stand? I am not picking sides, and neither am I willing… However, with an overwhelming rate of discussion and it gaining more and more popularity and thus attention every day, you can bet on the spec being altered – or even completely oblitirated like all the old annoyances, with little to no compensation

I have said a couple of times in the PvP forum that conditions are a very good way to counter the engineer. Engis have bad condition clear. Therefor most Turret Engis run Melandru Rune and Sigil of Purity. But even with that they are vulnerable to conditions. Of course you have to position correct. If you stand on the point and let all the turrets hit you while you bomb the engi with conditions you may die faster than the engi.

Shylock.4653:

I have said a couple of times in the PvP forum that conditions are a very good way to counter the engineer. Engis have bad condition clear. Therefor most Turret Engis run Melandru Rune and Sigil of Purity. But even with that they are vulnerable to conditions. Of course you have to position correct. If you stand on the point and let all the turrets hit you while you bomb the engi with conditions you may die faster than the engi.

I understand this, and a necromancer can stack conditions and burst them at 900-1200 range pretty consistently, something other conditions builds can’t do as well. This is why i’m confused as to why they’re never specifically mentioned.

Sabre.8627:

Shylock.4653:

I have said a couple of times in the PvP forum that conditions are a very good way to counter the engineer. Engis have bad condition clear. Therefor most Turret Engis run Melandru Rune and Sigil of Purity. But even with that they are vulnerable to conditions. Of course you have to position correct. If you stand on the point and let all the turrets hit you while you bomb the engi with conditions you may die faster than the engi.

I understand this, and a necromancer can stack conditions and burst them at 900-1200 range pretty consistently, something other conditions builds can’t do as well. This is why i’m confused as to why they’re never specifically mentioned.

Because it’s still a better strategy to just avoid them! Even if you do win (and you should). It takes time, and the point stays in the engi’s favor. It’s like dueling a bunker guard or even a tanky medi guard on a mesmer: you’ll win, but while doing it the points tick in for the opposing team, and you’d be more useful elsewhere.

Sorel.4870:

I’ve been playing turret engineer for the first time ever last night, and I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers. It sure is a counter to turret engi, but the match-up is nowhere as hard as against my celestial engineer, even with EG.

I’m confused, are you saying it’s easier to deal with a terrormancer on your turret build, versus your meta build?

Sorel.4870:

Sabre.8627:

Shylock.4653:

I have said a couple of times in the PvP forum that conditions are a very good way to counter the engineer. Engis have bad condition clear. Therefor most Turret Engis run Melandru Rune and Sigil of Purity. But even with that they are vulnerable to conditions. Of course you have to position correct. If you stand on the point and let all the turrets hit you while you bomb the engi with conditions you may die faster than the engi.

I understand this, and a necromancer can stack conditions and burst them at 900-1200 range pretty consistently, something other conditions builds can’t do as well. This is why i’m confused as to why they’re never specifically mentioned.

Because it’s still a better strategy to just avoid them! Even if you do win (and you should). It takes time, and the point stays in the engi’s favor. It’s like dueling a bunker guard or even a tanky medi guard on a mesmer: you’ll win, but while doing it the points tick in for the opposing team, and you’d be more useful elsewhere.

I’m more referring to the threads complaining about mutliple turret engi’s on a single team, where avoiding them isn’t an option.

Sabre.8627:

Sorel.4870:

I’ve been playing turret engineer for the first time ever last night, and I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers. It sure is a counter to turret engi, but the match-up is nowhere as hard as against my celestial engineer, even with EG.

I’m confused, are you saying it’s easier to deal with a terrormancer on your turret build, versus your meta build?

I would have to play more of the turret build, because I only played a dozen of matches last night. But it certainly felt like it: my huge health pool, melandru rune and sigil of purity really helped me survive better, while still dealing a ton of damage and cc, which really messes up with a necromancer.

But again, cele rifle is the build I play the best, so it doesn’t surprise me too much to beat a necro with it. What surprised me was winning against them on a build I just picked up, where I need to pick up or explode my thumper turret to access my only stun-breaker.

Sabre.8627:

Sorel.4870:

Sabre.8627:

Shylock.4653:

I have said a couple of times in the PvP forum that conditions are a very good way to counter the engineer. Engis have bad condition clear. Therefor most Turret Engis run Melandru Rune and Sigil of Purity. But even with that they are vulnerable to conditions. Of course you have to position correct. If you stand on the point and let all the turrets hit you while you bomb the engi with conditions you may die faster than the engi.

I understand this, and a necromancer can stack conditions and burst them at 900-1200 range pretty consistently, something other conditions builds can’t do as well. This is why i’m confused as to why they’re never specifically mentioned.

Because it’s still a better strategy to just avoid them! Even if you do win (and you should). It takes time, and the point stays in the engi’s favor. It’s like dueling a bunker guard or even a tanky medi guard on a mesmer: you’ll win, but while doing it the points tick in for the opposing team, and you’d be more useful elsewhere.

I’m more referring to the threads complaining about mutliple turret engi’s on a single team, where avoiding them isn’t an option.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think this build is a bit broken in soloq, especially when stacked.

If you’re in a team, a good option would be to make sure to let one engi on a point, and always bring the team fight where the other engi is. Turret engis are week in team fights when their elite is not up, and easily focusable.

Sorel.4870:

I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers

With all the rank farm server nowadays Legendary Champion means not much. I have met really bad Legendary Champions which double caps points and did all the noob errors you can think of.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Sabre.8627:

My question is, why is one of the main counters- The condition necromancer, never mentioned?

I think I can answer this

You do not see many Condition Necromancers, if at all nowadays… Reason why is not that hard to find – there is nearly no use for it…
It is tough to play, not as much as a teamfighter and Conditions Cleanses are numerous nowadays, so more than often you will find people switch to Power Necro, which is somewhat easier, does not rely on Conditions to get damage off and can actually cause a lot of pressure to the set-meta…

One shoutbow in teamfight and your condi necro can just go afk waiting for ppl to gank him

Shylock.4653:

Sorel.4870:

I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers

With all the rank farm server nowadays Legendary Champion means not much. I have met really bad Legendary Champions which double caps points and did all the noob errors you can think of.

I gladly concede. I don’t blame rank farm servers though, because the only people who would want to go there would do it for the achievements/titles/finishers, meaning they are most likely AP farmers and PvE players. Losing every game in unranked is faster. But some people just don’t like to learn. I run into a lot of “Champion Genius” turret engineers lately (ok, I was one last night, but that doesn’t count), and it makes you wonder: if you only play that build, or spirit ranger, or hambow warrior, until you reach rank 80, you can’t possibly improve! It certainly have been the case of these necromancers. But you see, when I play my p/p rabid build, even the most braindead necromancer can kill me if he doesn’t completely mess up. So turreter seems a bit stronger in that aspect.

Sorel.4870:

Shylock.4653:

Sorel.4870:

I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers

With all the rank farm server nowadays Legendary Champion means not much. I have met really bad Legendary Champions which double caps points and did all the noob errors you can think of.

I gladly concede. I don’t blame rank farm servers though, because the only people who would want to go there would do it for the achievements/titles/finishers, meaning they are most likely AP farmers and PvE players. Losing every game in unranked is faster. But some people just don’t like to learn. I run into a lot of “Champion Genius” turret engineers lately (ok, I was one last night, but that doesn’t count), and it makes you wonder: if you only play that build, or spirit ranger, or hambow warrior, until you reach rank 80, you can’t possibly improve! It certainly have been the case of these necromancers. But you see, when I play my p/p rabid build, even the most braindead necromancer can kill me if he doesn’t completely mess up. So turreter seems a bit stronger in that aspect.

Ranks are totally meaningless since 15 april 2014 patch…no matter rank farm on not

Archaon.9524:

Ranks are totally meaningless since 15 april 2014 patch…no matter rank farm on not

They also were meaningless prior to that. They just indicate how much you’ve played. Surely, you won’t argue that the people now on the top of the LB are the best players in the game (I have nothing against them, it’s not their fault)? The skill is measured on the battlefield, not with a pretty flag.

Sorel.4870:

So turreter seems a bit stronger in that aspect.

You are right they are a bit stronger because of Melandru Rune, Sigil of Purity and their bigger Health Pool. All of these don’t save them but it means you need more time to kill them.

Staff Elementalist will just kill it way faster and easier.

Even as full Condi Necromancer, killing Turret Engi can take quite a bit of time. Relying on staff condi damage is just silly, because it doesn’t do enough damage, you have to move in. Grenade Condi Engi has it way easier there. If turrets were not immune to Conditions, Condition Necromancer could just steamroll even two turreters at the same time with Epidemic equipped, similar to Minionmancers. But they’re not, and while you pose a threat, you still take damage.

Again, most of the times it’s an option, but you’re better off with some elementalist taking care of it. Destroying all the turrets and forcing engi off point+ being durable, bringing more support and mobility if needed.

Another thing is what Brandon brought up – I don’t know NA scene, but on EU there’re really, really few Condition Necromancers with some experience and time/team avalible.

I’ve been playing terror mancer with signet of spite and corrupt boon, it actually destroys this meta because of how many classes rely on boon stacking right now. You really only have a hard time against good warriors that are running zerker stance (since they will be immune to your condition application while it’s up) and LB rangers that sit on ledges (necro has no ports to really deal with the kite). But other than that, guard, ele, engi; you just wait for a full bar of boons, corrupt boon them into conditions (which they will cleanse), then signet of spite once their cleanse is down and cc lock them to death. PoC kitten s ele and guard too. It’s a complete counter to most cele biulds (since these builds typically depend on might stacking for damage).
vs turret engi, you don’t really even have to go in. You can just LoS their turrets off point and spam signet of spite + corrupt boon with your wep skills off cd to stack literally every condition in the game on them (they have 0 condi clears). Staff fear + PoC in, ds fear, ds 5 for torment, toss their immobs back onto them with staff cleanse or dagger 4. It’s a pretty easy matchup.

Counter meta terror build

As a necro main I somehow could regard this as good news I guess?
The logic here, however, assumes that turret engineers put their turrets all in one place which is only true of lower level players. Nugs play turret engi and crowd their turret in a corner—-in which case a lot of AoE oriented builds can counter them.

On higher levels, however, when turret engis know to spread their turrets around the battlefield and utilize the crossfire zones…that’s when this class gets really unstoppable. AoE obviously wouldn’t work in this case because the turrets are so spread out you can only shut one down at one time——while the other 2~3 pin you down.

P/S engineer is also a great counter. The downside is the lack of pressure on the turrets themselves since it’s condition based. Dodge the pull and throw grenades from range. Win and repeat.

Sorel.4870:

I’ve been playing turret engineer for the first time ever last night, and I’ve beaten my fair share of Legendary Champion terrormancers. It sure is a counter to turret engi, but the match-up is nowhere as hard as against my celestial engineer, even with EG.

^Exactly. It’s not because X has alot of conditions, it will beat Y.
The only ‘real’ struggle for me on Turret Engi (when I was testing) was Condition ranger totally.

Cheers

All this “Terrormancer easily beats turret engi by not standing on the point” only works against ppl who dont know what they do.
The turret engi can also leave the point and los…
Worked for me on close and far on niflhell! But i only did one match as turret engi (Sorry for that Ark).
The best thing about turrets is that you even win with lags. I probly have to join them cause i lag basicaly every evening.
Another good thing is, that the turret apocalypse is preventing me from playing – resulting in a lot more time for rl!

Condi Necro doesn’t particularly counter Turret engi that hard. Turrets are completely immune to conditions, so you will literally never kill them. In addition, Turrets outrange you, so its not like you can try to deal with them that effectively from super far away, all that that does is makes the last turret (Net, Thumper, Flame) and supply crate a bit less effective. But you’re still going to face a ton of CC and damage you can’t particularly do anything against, and Condi Necro doesn’t have the insane condi burst it used to, so basically you’re hoping that your condition burst will kill the 27k HP turret engi before you die.

It might be favorable, but it isn’t a very hard counter.

Maybe wit HoT they bring Guardian as Hardcounter! – With spirit weapons of course…

Sorel.4870:

Archaon.9524:

Ranks are totally meaningless since 15 april 2014 patch…no matter rank farm on not

They also were meaningless prior to that. They just indicate how much you’ve played. Surely, you won’t argue that the people now on the top of the LB are the best players in the game (I have nothing against them, it’s not their fault)? The skill is measured on the battlefield, not with a pretty flag.

old pre 16 dec ladder was pretty accurate (Top players were usually on top at least)

this one…just lol…

lol @ this thread. Why not run the one spec that can kill turret engis. It is always funny. The current OP spec always things their spec is completely fine. Let me make it clear to all of you: play engi all you want. It is there as a result of the non-existent ANET balance team. Just don’t think it takes any skill to play.

Sabre.8627:

Over the past weeks, this whole PvP forums has been filled with hate and complaints against the turret engineer build. Everytime somebody asks for a counter or a way to deal with them, the usual answer is just “avoid them ,rotate around them” or “if you can’t beat them, join them” i’ve even heard of people suggesting switching to staff ele to deal with multiple turret engineers.

My question is, why is one of the main counters- The condition necromancer, never mentioned? Why is the suggestion to switch over to an elementalist instead of necromancer when you run into teams of turret engi’s?
Are necro’s really THAT bad in their current state, that another build is better to handle the ONLY class they counter? Or am I just misinformed on build match-ups?

Easy answer? Because celestial eles and shoutbows can totally shut down a condition necro making it worthless for anything outside 1v1’ing engi and even if totally braindead even a turreterd can los and cc a necro keeping him 1v1 forever..or long enough to get backup anyway

Condi necro(at least the terror version) can’t hard counter turret engi. Necro usually counters the popular engi builds like condi or cele because they can transfer the condis back and chain fear them. Turret engi has almost 0 condis to transfer back so you are forced to spam bleeds which they can outsustain and if you get close and get hit by any cc skill you are dead.
Yes you can eventually kill them if you never get on the node but that’s a huge waste of time.

Now condi ranger has much better chance because they got the sword evades and their infinite immobilize spams which can pin down the engi easily.

People say go staff ele against turret. You can go skullcrack warrior and rolfstomp them too but staff ele is generally more useful in a team comp, while skullcrack is just a troll 1v1 build.

Archaon.9524:

One shoutbow in teamfight and your condi necro can just go afk waiting for ppl to gank him

Pretty much… It is quite funny playing both though…

As a Necro, you stay outside of the fight and try to land a burst, but are incapable of doing so because of the numerous cleanses, making you a sitting duck
And as a Warrior, I look at the Necro, do a /shrug and keep removing the condis from my teammates… In the odd chance they do jump down it is over…

So yea, why run a build if it is “potentially” effective against say 6/8 builds, while the other build is proven effective against 8/8 – and does conquest like no other? I cannot blame people for taking the easy way out