Guild Wars 2

“The maintenance build is not the same thing as the feature build.”
-Grouch

My original post was deleted. It was “disrespectful” according to the moderator.
Facts are facts, so Im not sure how Anet expects people to talk on the forums at this point. It is a fact that something is being removed from PVP on the 18th and it is a fact that nothing will be added. All those features and balance changes that they’ve been talking about will NOT be added to the game March 18th, even though PVP has received no meaningful features since December.

Im simply trying to clarify things for the community so that when March 18th rolls around, no one is disappointed. If the moderators or Allie or Grouch would like to step in and clarify things in a more “respectful” manner, by all means.

If this is true, WOW

Oh its definitely true. Confirmed by Grouch in Tage’s thread entitled “No Balance Patch at March?”. Since that thread was also closed by a moderator, Im just bringing the information out for everyone to know to avoid the rage threads on March 18th.

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

silvermember.8941:

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

True, but some people have still been asking or saying that the March 18th patch will be the feature patch and ANET hasn’t exactly come out and officially said “Hey it wont be March, it will be April or May”. Grouch’s post was the first time I actually saw ANET clarify the confusion people are having so I figured Id let people know

xantosnightwish.5438:

silvermember.8941:

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

True, but some people have still been asking or saying that the March 18th patch will be the feature patch and ANET hasn’t exactly come out and officially said “Hey it wont be March, it will be April or May”. Grouch’s post was the first time I actually saw ANET clarify the confusion people are having so I figured Id let people know

Actually allie clarified that a while back.

silvermember.8941:

xantosnightwish.5438:

silvermember.8941:

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

True, but some people have still been asking or saying that the March 18th patch will be the feature patch and ANET hasn’t exactly come out and officially said “Hey it wont be March, it will be April or May”. Grouch’s post was the first time I actually saw ANET clarify the confusion people are having so I figured Id let people know

Actually allie clarified that a while back.

She did not, it was as vague as it could get.

silvermember.8941:

xantosnightwish.5438:

silvermember.8941:

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

True, but some people have still been asking or saying that the March 18th patch will be the feature patch and ANET hasn’t exactly come out and officially said “Hey it wont be March, it will be April or May”. Grouch’s post was the first time I actually saw ANET clarify the confusion people are having so I figured Id let people know

Actually allie clarified that a while back.

Oh yeah? Where? In her “FAQ” all it says was that it is not the next phase of the PVP rewards. She says nothing about “no balance” changes. She doesn’t flat out say “this is not the feature build and is just a maintenance patch”. She may have been trying to say that. But she didn’t succeed in clarifying anything. Want proof? Go look at how many people on this forums still think something in the form of balance changes, new modes, etc. is coming March 18th.

Can someone post a link/quote the thread where this is stated?

I have been looking forward to March 18 for some time… This makes me pretty upset.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Can someone post a link/quote the thread where this is stated?

I have been looking forward to March 18 for some time… This makes me pretty upset.

Case and point silver. Sorry but this thread WAS necessary.

And Krazy, its in the post called “No balance changes at march” by Tage. Anet closed it. You can also find it under developer posts. Look for Grouch’s.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/NO-BALANCE-PATCH-AT-MARCH/first#post3690857

UHD.2634:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/NO-BALANCE-PATCH-AT-MARCH/first#post3690857

Thanks UHD.

I never saw any reference to the March 18th patch as “feature” or “maintenance”. Since the glory system is being replaced on March 18th, I can see how that would be construed as a “feature”.

The whole communication of this “feature patch” has been a great disaster.

Why do they talk about stuff that is still months away with no real release date while still talking about other issues along the way.

What happened to “one thing at a time”?

I know they don’t want everyone running off and pre-ordering TESO but seriously, only announce something if you have something to say about it.

All we know about this “feature patch” is that it will introduce Ferocity and a reworks to Runes and Sigils. And this was announced 6 weeks ago….

Chaba.5410:

I never saw any reference to the March 18th patch as “feature” or “maintenance”. Since the glory system is being replaced on March 18th, I can see how that would be construed as a “feature”.

They’ve labeled it as a “maintenance” patch. Go reread the blog on it or the FAQ.

And its not being replaced with anything new. Its just strictly being removed. What are you getting back in return on March 18th as a pvper? More rank pts? Really?

So… when is the “balance” patch?

Also, why is it called a balance patch when the balance team doesn’t really know what the balance is actually going to be like when the patch goes live?

Thedenofsin.7340:

So… when is the “balance” patch?

Also, why is it called a balance patch when the balance team doesn’t really know what the balance is actually going to be like when the patch goes live?

Your guess is as good as any on both questions sir

Be honest, why does it take so long for quite simple fixes and balance tweaks to be rolled out? Why isnt there a PTS for players to test and you to gain proper feedback on the changes. This game feels like it is being run by a bunch of random kids that change stuff around for themselves and then brag about it on the stream how something is happening in the internal clients. It is really frustrating to be witnessing this kind of willingness not to develop your own product.

Mods will probably remove this is like they do with all the other critique, since that seems to be the way of Anet. I just dont understand why your system has to be so clumsy, I bet that the balance changes you are about to do / thinking about take like 25 mins max to actually implement on the live client but for some magical reason you have decided that there cant be balancing while there is pve patches. Or that you cant do balance patch now because you are doing some bug fixes and tooltip changes.

Btw it has been almost 6 months since you showed some sneakpeaks on new pvp maps and gamemodes related to them. What happened to those?

Datsuni.4678:

GROUCH!
…
Mods will probably remove this
…

Let’s try to keep this respectful, eh? Can you at least edit your post to be less accusatory. I’d rather not give the devs any reason to close this thread.

Thank you.

TBH i think game balance is maintenance and not new feature, so by the sake of anet headquarters i hope this is misunderstanding cause otherwise WE WILL RIOT!!!

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Datsuni.4678:

GROUCH!
…
Mods will probably remove this
…

Let’s try to keep this respectful, eh? Can you at least edit your post to be less accusatory. I’d rather not give the devs any reason to close this thread.

Thank you.

Haha ya, Id rather not get my SECOND infraction point in one day for simply reposting the facts Grouch finally gave us….(No disrespect Anet, I swear!)

I believe they announced in a ready up broadcast that the feature match was going to be in march, but they didn’t specific which date.

You all are silly for thinking it would ever be march the 18th. I posted many times warning people it would be “late spring/early summer” which to me means may time.

But anet fail at community interaction, they should of known people were thinking it would be march 18th back months now and they didnt know/did nothing to reset expectations.

style.6173:

I believe they announced in a ready up broadcast that the feature match was going to be in march, but they didn’t specific which date.

IDK if they did. But a lot of people have been posting saying that it was the March 18th patch. So somehow people got that impression and Allies “FAQ” was far to vague and didn’t clarify anything.

style.6173:

I believe they announced in a ready up broadcast that the feature match was going to be in march, but they didn’t specific which date.

If it isn’t march 18th, and it is confirmed to not be march 18th per the above, it isn’t happening in march, as the next likely candidate is April fools day (lol). Of course that isn’t confirmed either, so it could be 2-4 weeks after that…. Safe to say the feature patch will hit before May… maybe…

Clearly Anet has no dogs, or they would understand the concept of throwing us a bone. I hope they like their chewed up tennis shoes.

I dont understand how you think it is acceptable for simple patches to take this long.

Infuriating. . . I hope all the good players who are leaving/ already left will return. . .

December.3946:

Infuriating. . . is an understatement felt by the PvP community. I hope all the good players who are leaving/ already left will return. . .

Why would any of them return? They’ve been putting up with this for well over a year now.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

could you specify what is “feature” build? i presume that feature = new content, so maintanence = improving current game aka fixing balance…
noone cares how you call it people just wanna know will there will be balance improvements on 18th or not

I think they main point isnt really the missunderstanding about the nature of 18th patch but more about the fact that not even that patch will do anything to change this meta, or to add something to pvp, there will be only something removed.

Allie Murdock.8152:

In this particular case, the feature build includes the next major step of PvP rewards. The maintenance build only includes the change to glory that will support the next phase.

And the balance updates? Please clarify, this seems to be where the confusion lies.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

You actually didn’t Allie. But you also didn’t specifically say it WASNT on March 18th and that was where the confusion came from. Josh came on earlier and cleared this up for us. You’ve actually said very little about the feature patch, which is part of the problem.

Now, the second you called it a “maintenance” patch, I personally knew not to expect anything else on March 18th. But a lot of people thought otherwise. And in your FAQ, you did not address this clearly, leading to more confusion. I would recommend editing your post and releasing your own announcement clarifying this issue.

Im not trying to be disrespectful, Im simply trying to help clear up the confusion.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

There is no quoted ANET representative that said March 18th is the date of the feature patch… primarily because no dates are ever given… ever…. to prevent forum backlash, but you know this, so I assume you are asking rhetorically.

Since the ready-up in Jan where balance changes were mentioned (very specific balance changes), there has been a fog of anxious excitement that these changes would be implemented in the game, including possibly skills, rune, and sigil changes.

Either in that stream or some other time it was mentioned this “feature” patch would follow the end of the living story. Since the living story ends on the 18th, there is your reason why people jumped to that conclusion.

But can you really blame them? It beats jumping to the more likely conclusion the feature patch might just barely beat out the Independence day.

Watching the devs smile and wax laconically about the joy of dual sigils, and how much fun they are having, only to realize we are months (or more) out from when we might get to have these basic, should have been in the game from the start, quality of life style fixes.

But like Leeto said…. the bigger question is what is slated to happen March 18th? Nothing? Bug fixes? Another round of tooltip updates?

Yes ok noone thought that you will release seasons and new pvp rewards all we care about is the balance improvements that you talked about like month ago on your stream.

xantosnightwish.5438:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

You actually didn’t Allie. But you also didn’t specifically say it WASNT on March 18th and that was where the confusion came from. Josh came on earlier and cleared this up for us. You’ve actually said very little about the feature patch, which is part of the problem.

Now, the second you called it a “maintenance” patch, I personally knew not to expect anything else on March 18th. But a lot of people thought otherwise. And in your FAQ, you did not address this clearly, leading to more confusion. I would recommend editing your post and releasing your own announcement clarifying this issue.

Im not trying to be disrespectful, Im simply trying to help clear up the confusion.

It’s not only that, it’s also that pvp hasn’t been touched in months. So when the March 18th date was announced and repeated on the streams when discussing balance, everyone began to assume that at the very least the 18th patch would have those minor changes they discussed.

“Hey all,

As promised, here is the balance preview for the first feature build that will launch after the first Living World season ends."

Then ArenaNet mentioned the next patch after the end of the first Living World season is March 18th.

It’s a natural assumption to make: the balance patch comes after LW Season 1 ends. The next patch after LW Season 1 is March 18.

It’s not the community’s fault here: that’s really poor communication and poor management of expectations.

Allie Murdock.8152:

In this particular case, the feature build includes the next major step of PvP rewards. The maintenance build only includes the change to glory that will support the next phase.

A significantly better way to word this would be: “No balance changes or any features are being released on March 18th. The only thing that will happen on this day is that glory will be removed”.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

oh my god, you even dont need to say something like
“march is a huge pvp patch with a huge focus on balance”

its just self-evident to see something after 3 month or better after 1 yeahr nothing…
better stop the soon and in future kittenstorm and just say “ok we just do nothing great atm”

The terms “feature build” “maintenance build” etc build, those terms you probably using internally and never explicitly said what those terms means. And now you are expecting people to understand what is going on.

Pyriall.5027:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Could someone point me to where we have said that the March 18th build is the feature build? I’m trying to understand where the idea is coming from and why it has gotten to this point. I was out for 3 months so maybe I missed something.

You actually didn’t Allie. But you also didn’t specifically say it WASNT on March 18th and that was where the confusion came from. Josh came on earlier and cleared this up for us. You’ve actually said very little about the feature patch, which is part of the problem.

Now, the second you called it a “maintenance” patch, I personally knew not to expect anything else on March 18th. But a lot of people thought otherwise. And in your FAQ, you did not address this clearly, leading to more confusion. I would recommend editing your post and releasing your own announcement clarifying this issue.

Im not trying to be disrespectful, Im simply trying to help clear up the confusion.

It’s not only that, it’s also that pvp hasn’t been touched in months. So when the March 18th date was announced and repeated on the streams when discussing balance, everyone began to assume that at the very least the 18th patch would have those minor changes they discussed.

^^^^Totally true. Assumptions were made by the community since they had no official word from Anet on anything. Can you honestly blame the community Allie?

xantosnightwish.5438:

Allie Murdock.8152:

In this particular case, the feature build includes the next major step of PvP rewards. The maintenance build only includes the change to glory that will support the next phase.

A significantly better way to word this would be: “No balance changes or any features are being released on March 18th. The only thing that will happen on this day is that glory will be removed”.

Rather negative spin on the comment that was made, but I think this pretty much sums up the situation. It seems likely that since none of the Anet folks are confirming ANY balance changes on any specific dates, there won’t be any balance changes rolled into the extensive and painstaking process of removing the glory rewards from the game.

On a side note, how exactly can you remove glory rewards and replace it with nothing? Does that mean PvP rewards are just gutted until the patch that adds in the “new” reward system…. wouldn’t it have made a mountain of sense to pair those patches together?

Allie, could you also kindly clarify whether or not we will have any additional rewards after the March 18th patch? From my current understanding, starting from March 18th we would get absolutely no rewards for playing PvP, since even though we would get more rank points, we wouldn’t accumulate any Glory to purchase new items nor the Rank Vendors would still be present.

That would be very much appreciated, thanks.

Rennoko.5731:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Allie Murdock.8152:

In this particular case, the feature build includes the next major step of PvP rewards. The maintenance build only includes the change to glory that will support the next phase.

A significantly better way to word this would be: “No balance changes or any features are being released on March 18th. The only thing that will happen on this day is that glory will be removed”.

Rather negative spin on the comment that was made, but I think this pretty much sums up the situation. It seems likely that since none of the Anet folks are confirming ANY balance changes on any specific dates, there won’t be any balance changes rolled into the extensive and painstaking process of removing the glory rewards from the game.

On a side note, how exactly can you remove glory rewards and replace it with nothing? Does that mean PvP rewards are just gutted until the patch that adds in the “new” reward system…. wouldn’t it have made a mountain of sense to pair those patches together?

I honestly think part of the problem here is that Anet is trying to put a positive spin on everything they say, which really only confuses the community and builds up hype only to see that hype being deflated on patch day which is then followed by more hype….and the cycle repeats itself.

It really is time to break the cycle and be more upfront with the community. If nothing significant is happening on March 18th, say “Nothing else is occurring on March 18th”. This speculation should not have been allowed to continue.

You also ask a very good question sir! I would like Anet’s response to that.

Allie Murdock.8152:

In this particular case, the feature build includes the next major step of PvP rewards. The maintenance build only includes the change to glory that will support the next phase.

As clear as it may seem in-studio, Allie, the community at large does not have knowledge of what all is to be contained in the “Feature Patch” and when it’s planned to occur.

Whenever the final features of the Feature Patch can be code complete, we would greatly appreciate a press release, blog-post, or Ready Up episode that details all of the elements coming with the Feature Patch and exactly what date this patch is.

Thanks for your continued transparency with the community!
Malchior

PS: With regard to your recent post about where the confusion came from – again, the community at large does not think like a business, a programmer, a developer, or a manager. To the community at large, EVERYTHING is a feature, such that – the removal of Glory (which is labeled as a “feature”) could have indicated the March 18th date as the “Feature Patch” to the community.

Thanks to the recent updates by both you and Josh, we are now aware that the March 18th patch is NOT the upcoming Feature Patch, and we thank you for that information, but everyone is chomping at the bit to know what date the Feature Patch is planned for and what it will include.

Again, thanks for your continued concern and discussion with the community.

Allie Murdock.8152:

We are extremely specific about what is being released regarding PvP in John’s blog.

To quote from it, we say the following regarding this:

• “This post is to let you know that glory will no longer be awarded as of a maintenance build that is currently planned for March 18.”
  • Given that we have been calling the next phase of PvP the feature build, I’m surprised it wasn’t assumed that maintenance != feature here. Regardless, the next quote fully addresses that.
• “The glory vendor that was introduced in the December 10 build will remain until the new reward system is released in a later update "
• “Because these rewards are being removed in preparation for the next phase of the PvP reward updates”

In nearly every paragraph of this blog post, we discuss either what exactly is happening in this build, or mention that it is not a part of the next phase of rewards.

This is why I am confused as to where the misconception came from.

Holy kitten………………..
How hard is to just say whether or not the 18th patch will include all the balance changes talked about for months.

Can someone please explain to me in human language ARE THOSE FEW SIMPLE BALANCE IMPROVEMENTS A NEW FEATURE OR NOT?!!??!!?!?
All i see is feature, maintananance, phase, rewards etc. etc.
I dont need no phases no rewards no seasons or whatever else all i want to know is will i have on demand dhuumfire or not… english isnt my main language but i perfectly understand 3 words – BALANCE , YES , NO

Allie Murdock.8152:

We are extremely specific about what is being released regarding PvP in John’s blog.

To quote from it, we say the following regarding this:

• “This post is to let you know that glory will no longer be awarded as of a maintenance build that is currently planned for March 18.”
  • Given that we have been calling the next phase of PvP the feature build, I’m surprised it wasn’t assumed that maintenance != feature here. Regardless, the next quote fully addresses that.
• “The glory vendor that was introduced in the December 10 build will remain until the new reward system is released in a later update "
• “Because these rewards are being removed in preparation for the next phase of the PvP reward updates”

In nearly every paragraph of this blog post, we discuss either what exactly is happening in this build, or mention that it is not a part of the next phase of rewards.

This is why I am confused as to where the misconception came from.

People are aware the reward system is not in place, and that apparently means the rewards are just cut somewhat until that is in place, which I guess is okay, but rather disheartening.

People are not aware of what this so called maintenance patch is going to do. As has been posted above about 3-5 times in this thread alone, people want to know…

Does the March 18th patch include any of the balance updates mentioned in Ready-Up or otherwise

I think it is pretty clear now that patch has no new rewards, no new sigils, no new runes, no quality of life updates, no new features, no new skills.

But balance? Pretty easy yes, no, don’t know question.