Guild Wars 2

Stop bringing warr/thief/mesmer into this meta… they don’t work. You have to work twice as hard to make them work. I get it, I do, thief, and warrior were/are my two favorite classes for pvp. I want ANET to make them viable again but at this point in time. NO they just don’t work. It’s not the classes fault, it’s just how their designed right now. No shame in switching something more viable but seriously. These current classes do NOT work. I can’t count right now the number of times I have lost a game cause of those particularly classes. I know it sounds elitist to type this, and yes I sound salty, cause I’m at the final tier, and was so close only to lose it because someone believed the hype that “Yes THEY are viable” No they are nottttttt. Had a rifle warr just run around dying off point, while the reapers/druids/dh saw him and were like hahaha lunch…. game before that had a thief who was dying at far everytime.. and then ran around the map doing idk what but he was NOT contributing in any way, despite him TRYING I mean he WAS trying I’ll give him that but man… they knew/know how to conter a daredevil… they do NOT work the enemy team has to be complete imbeciles for them to work.

/rant

It’s dependent on the player more than the class. People playing what’s strong instead of what they enjoy is a big reason sPvP isn’t all that fun.

hope you feel better. now take a deep breath and put that nose back to the grindstone

Logged off afterwards… I couldn’t even xD will try again later it’s been win loss win loss for me

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1. I have no hard counters, not even dh, which I will eventually beat 1v1, but it often takes too long.

Thief have so much mobility, and in a meta filled with slow classes like dh and reaper, I feel borderline overpowered. Sure the class takes a lot of active play and careful thought with where to go to. But if you keep going to the right spot on the maps, and rotating well, Thief is very strong addition to a team. I just had a few players call me a lucky charm, and say how they win any games they play with me… I don’t deserve the credit, but I can tell that Thief is in a good place.

I’m not even the best thief I’ve seen in matches. I got beat up bad by one since the season started, otherwise, I’ve destroyed every other thief so far. The class doesn’t play for you, and I like that. Keep playing reaper or dh, and those of us making Thief work can keep playing it. I think Thief will show up in the next big tournament if things stay as they are.

Roles:
-Decaps (forcing enemy to stay on home node at all times, always, for real, takes me 5 seconds to get to their point and decap)
-Pop dh traps if you see them go down, to prevent them from being fully utilized.
-1v1 and contest points 1v1. With my current build I can actually stay on point for a good 20-30 seconds, while its nothing extraordinary, if I choose to leave point, I can win any 1v1. The evades are amazing with daredevil, shortbow, blocks, and stuns galore.
-Help secure stomps in some circumstances.
-Torture necros. Poor Necros…
-Assist with kills in team fights, with the right build we can finally stay in a fight for a long time.
-Rotate like no other class. Play the objectives of the map. This is mostly a big boon in solo queue, where you can often take full advantage. In organized teams, everyone should be rotating to objectives, etc. But often I find in soloq, zipping around the map grabbing stillness, stealing creeps, preventing a lord attempt… all best done by a thief.

I hope you don’t bring poor attitude to you games, although as a thief I’ve yet to meet a warrior do anything substantial. They had two strong builds last season, one was meant to burst bunkers, which are all gone (minus ele, which counters it), and control lockdown, which was nerfed with the amulet changes. I haven’t tried warrior yet this season, so I can’t really comment, but they seem to be the worst class right now. Thieves, not so much. I’d put thief ahead of Ranger right now, on par with mesmer. While they aren’t top tier, what they bring is unique, and hard to counter when played by a decent thief.

I was about to give up with this season, but I played a few 490-500/498-500 matches today that made me happier. Even though so many matches are steamrolls, those matches sort of made up for it. My win rate on Thief this season seems to be about 70-80%. But I’ve only had time for about 30 games total and got to sapphire. Again, way stronger than last season, and if they adjust necro condi pressure, revenant mobility, and engie sustain, I think thief would be one of the top classes. Although nerfing necro would reduce the amount of hardcounters you can do on Thief. I was fighting 3 necros the other day, who were capping our point, managed to down 1 before I had to pull out, they can’t even touch thief. Can’t expect much better 1v3. (all done with shortbow obviously)

So I’m of the crowd that really doesn’t want Thief buffs. If they get buffed, I’m sure they will get nerfed in the future. They are balanced (not really, but all elite specs are overpowered), but they fit in this meta like a glove. You just need to know how to play one.

http://imgur.com/72lsblw

Mesmer doesn’t work? …. I lost it

The problem is 90% of the people playing these classes, are playing it poorly. Yes it’s viable only if they’re good at it.

uraldum.8513:

It’s dependent on the player more than the class. People playing what’s strong instead of what they enjoy is a big reason sPvP isn’t all that fun.

You shouldn’t be playing ranked spvp if thats your mentality. go do hot join.

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1. I have no hard counters, not even dh, which I will eventually beat 1v1, but it often takes too long.

You are mixing up the difference between the class and your own personal skill.

Thief as a class sucks. It currently only has a +1 role, meaning it gives the opposing team a +1 advantage.

From Thief Forum-

“What league are you? Also you keep saying 1v1 1v1 1v1, it’s rarely 1v1.. thief gets the kitten burst out of them if they make an appearance. And the whole slippery thing doesn’t cause you are trying to conquer points. It’s all well and good to quick decap but why if you can’t even hold em.. and the rest of your team is getting 4v5? We can speculate all day, but so far in MY experience this is all I seen. That thieves don’t bring much to the table”

style.6173:

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1. I have no hard counters, not even dh, which I will eventually beat 1v1, but it often takes too long.

You are mixing up the difference between the class and your own personal skill.

Thief as a class sucks. It currently only has a +1 role, meaning it gives the opposing team a +1 advantage.

As flattering as that sounds, I really don’t think that I’m anything special. The class is simply difficult to pull off compared to others, by nature of all their surviving tools being active. (minus a recent addition in acro) A bad thief will be terrible, but that doesn’t mean the class should be buffed, or players like me (or better) will simply destroy everyone with Thief. I can already 1v1 anyone, literally, revs, necro, dh, scrapper, etc. I can 1v2 for a while in spvp, and hold points in ways I never could on thief. I think it’s in a great place now, and any buffs will just lead to complaints and nerfs. People already tell me that fighting me is a pain in the kitten, more than any other class they say. Make that worse, and I promise there will be nerfs. No point in buffing if they will just nerf. Just bring down some of the other OP classes some and you will see even mediocre thieves enjoying their games.

Crimson Shi.5047:

From Thief Forum-

“What league are you? Also you keep saying 1v1 1v1 1v1, it’s rarely 1v1.. thief gets the kitten burst out of them if they make an appearance. And the whole slippery thing doesn’t cause you are trying to conquer points. It’s all well and good to quick decap but why if you can’t even hold em.. and the rest of your team is getting 4v5? We can speculate all day, but so far in MY experience this is all I seen. That thieves don’t bring much to the table”

Thief can evade or cc so much now, that you only should go down when you mess up. Yes 1v1 is not very often, but thief now excels at it in this meta (minus engaging dh and rev, but both can be killed) You are still good at +1, and decaps (better than back in the day)

I’ve played thief since release (3 years ago), and I think they are in a great place. Better than last two metas.

As for league, I’m only in sapphire, and perhaps you are right this is making things feel easier. I haven’t had as much time to play, but the games I posted are all from today. No one hard counters thief right now it seems. And with the evades, you can get engaged in the teamfights without too much trouble. As always though, for thief it has always been important to know when to go in and when to pull out. When to decap, and when to stay and cap. Because they move about twice as fast as other classes (minus rev), rotating is more important, but if you understand the map, your teams movements, enemy movements, class distribution, map objectives, teleport spots, etc. You can capitalize on it much better on a thief. You just don’t have as much team presence as other classes. Which is fine, since you get all that mobility to grantee you are in the right spot of the map to make the best of it.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Stop bringing warr/thief/mesmer into this meta… they don’t work. You have to work twice as hard to make them work. I get it, I do, thief, and warrior were/are my two favorite classes for pvp. I want ANET to make them viable again but at this point in time. NO they just don’t work. It’s not the classes fault, it’s just how their designed right now. No shame in switching something more viable but seriously. These current classes do NOT work. I can’t count right now the number of times I have lost a game cause of those particularly classes. I know it sounds elitist to type this, and yes I sound salty, cause I’m at the final tier, and was so close only to lose it because someone believed the hype that “Yes THEY are viable” No they are nottttttt. Had a rifle warr just run around dying off point, while the reapers/druids/dh saw him and were like hahaha lunch…. game before that had a thief who was dying at far everytime.. and then ran around the map doing idk what but he was NOT contributing in any way, despite him TRYING I mean he WAS trying I’ll give him that but man… they knew/know how to conter a daredevil… they do NOT work the enemy team has to be complete imbeciles for them to work.

/rant

you are incorrect

kdaddy.5431:

Crimson Shi.5047:

Stop bringing warr/thief/mesmer into this meta… they don’t work. You have to work twice as hard to make them work. I get it, I do, thief, and warrior were/are my two favorite classes for pvp. I want ANET to make them viable again but at this point in time. NO they just don’t work. It’s not the classes fault, it’s just how their designed right now. No shame in switching something more viable but seriously. These current classes do NOT work. I can’t count right now the number of times I have lost a game cause of those particularly classes. I know it sounds elitist to type this, and yes I sound salty, cause I’m at the final tier, and was so close only to lose it because someone believed the hype that “Yes THEY are viable” No they are nottttttt. Had a rifle warr just run around dying off point, while the reapers/druids/dh saw him and were like hahaha lunch…. game before that had a thief who was dying at far everytime.. and then ran around the map doing idk what but he was NOT contributing in any way, despite him TRYING I mean he WAS trying I’ll give him that but man… they knew/know how to conter a daredevil… they do NOT work the enemy team has to be complete imbeciles for them to work.

/rant

you are incorrect

Good to know. I guess thief just still counters warrior, so I don’t feel like they do much. Warriors have it almost as bad as necro when fighting thief. There attacks in general are too slow, and easy to evade

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

Chaba.5410:

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

What you mean? Do you mean, why are reapers ever alone on a point? Or why are they not running (they can, if I let them), or why do they lose? Go into a dueling server on a reaper against a good thief and you will see why they lose the fight. As for being alone on a point, it is usually minion master reapers, but also sometimes condi reapers get left alone on a point (this is solo queue after all). As for running when they see a thief show up, it is usually better to try and hold the point for backup, and with the right build they can last quite a while, but since reapers cant really deal damage to daredevils due to obvious animations and easy to dodge skills, its a guaranteed loss eventually. I’d say daredevils hard counter reapers in 1v1.

Since thieves can jump from mid to the far point for a decap so fast, you either leave someone there, or try and out rotate and win mid decisively. I will usually wait for the enemy to be just far enough that they can’t stop the decap, but close enough that they feel compelled to run back and recap, meanwhile I’m back mid fighting 5v4. I often save shadowstep for these plays, and use the return to get back into mid as fast as possible.

My results speak for themselves, but it is true that a good team makes decaps much harder, but they face constant home pressure when playing against a thief.

@ Loboling:
The reason why thief does now better than before January is that runes have been nerfed/taken out. Outside of pvp the class is still a mess. I don’t call that balance actually.
So saying “thief doesn’t need anything” is not really true – I hope you get my point.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

uraldum.8513:

It’s dependent on the player more than the class. People playing what’s strong instead of what they enjoy is a big reason sPvP isn’t all that fun.

You shouldn’t be playing ranked spvp if thats your mentality. go do hot join.

I’m just commenting on how cookie cutter builds are now. I’ve been enjoying Scrapper (which has a strong placement in the meta) more than any other class this season because I can change my heal/utilities/elite depending on the comp we’re facing, and that’s nice. When I play thief, 90% of the time I’ll be running trickery/deadly arts/daredevil with withdraw, shadow step, and bandit’s defense to even stand a chance against other classes.

@ Loboling
Can U send me a link to U’r build? I have low level thief but I can’t make any serious build.

Loboling.5293:

Chaba.5410:

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

What you mean? Do you mean, why are reapers ever alone on a point?

Basically this. Just because a necro is making some mistake because of their team comp or rotations doesn’t necessarily mean to me that thief is suddenly very viable. Now don’t get me wrong, I pvp with a guy who is a thief main and I appreciate a good thief. We’ve won matches while he’s on thief, but we also look at team comps and he’ll swap to a different class depending upon it. Oftentimes I ask thieves in soloQ to look at team comp and tell me what they can hit and they’ll say the necros, yet most necros are in team fights which thieves cannot stay in. Just because the other team has players who either don’t understand their role in meta or their team comp is weird or they are just bad at dueling and they’re running the fotm which they don’t understand doesn’t make the class viable in this meta. It is more a case of thief seeming to be viable only because the other team made a mistake. For every awesome thief I’ve had on team, I’ve played with twice the number of bad thieves who are essentially useless to teams that are deficient in some way, mostly because they can’t +1 a fight when the team isn’t working well together. If a thief were really viable, they’d be able to make up for those deficiencies. TBH they can’t make it up.

@Opening

I don’t know what you are talking about, i am in Diamond T5 and i play Power mesmer.
I don’t have any issue.

I’m currently Sapphire T1, playing mostly condi Mesmer and always solo queue. It’s been a very rough road.

I’d agree that Mesmer is not optimum, but it’s what I want to play. Warrior is similar, Thieves seem to be holding there own from what I’ve seen.

I think what the OP is trying to say is that playing a class like Mesmer as opposed to Necro or Guard means that the team will be theoretically weaker going into the match.

Therefore, one could argue that it’s a disservice to other players on one’s team to play something other than DH, RP or Ele and maybe Thf. This point has some real merit.

On the other hand, I’m not good at any of those 4 classes in a pvp setting. I can dungeon thief but that’s different. So, I could argue that in fact the best thing for me to do is play Mesmer. Sure, it’s not a top shelf class atm. I can play it better than I can play the other classes though.

On a personal note. I still like to rp some, even in PvP. Part of my fun is playing a Mesmer. I like the style and the magic. Maybe it would be worth taking some of the emphasis off pure competition. One can take that too far.

I like warrior, they have their uses, they have their drawbacks. I liked stun locking a necro so my team could cap without being wiped. The thing is, meta builds are pretty much good at anything, when played right, but why in kitten´s name would I play a frigging revenant when their kit doesn´t sit well with me at all. I hate most meta builds, I only like the scrapper, but when I suddenly feel like bringing a mortar engi with a shield, a condi ranger, a shatter mes or something else ooky I do it, my game, paid for it, now go away!

Example: someone has been playing mesmer for 2 years, deeply enjoying it. So anet decides to buff some cookie cutter class. Do you honestly think quickly learning the meta build will outperform 2 YEARS of practice on mesmer? nice joke, I would want the real mesmer that actually does something over the scrapper that can’t play his build.

Chaba.5410:

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

backstab from a theif is like getting stung by a mosquito as reaper
meanwhile they die if you use 1 or 2 spells on them.

Extreme.8350:

Chaba.5410:

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

backstab from a theif is like getting stung by a mosquito as reaper
meanwhile they die if you use 1 or 2 spells on them.

I don’t think this particular thief lets them get spells off. Anyways, when someone can’t play a decent ranked match in amber with a team that doesn’t blow, class regardless, he’s very bad.

Siren.2843:

Extreme.8350:

Chaba.5410:

Loboling.5293:

Sorry, but Thief is very viable in this Meta. Much more than last season. With my current build I can 1v1 any class, and I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

Why are reapers letting you 1v1 them? o_O

backstab from a theif is like getting stung by a mosquito as reaper
meanwhile they die if you use 1 or 2 spells on them.

I don’t think this particular thief lets them get spells off. Anyways, when someone can’t play a decent ranked match in amber with a team that doesn’t blow, class regardless, he’s very bad.

Im sapphire i been winning every time with necro.
I wish i could play mesmer but its useless.
Theif is the least of my concern like i said its a mosquito.
But by all means keep tryharding with theif its not my problem.

SPvP might be one thing, but in WvW, I hate playing Thief. Everyone plays condi and it just tears us apart. I have no idea how to counter some of that at all. If anyone has suggestions, I’m all ears, because this meta makes me want to quit the game.

i shake my head every time i hear people (regardless of class) saying i can 1v1 anyone in sPvP.

Its a 5v5 game.

Ive lost count where someone has said in map chat “lol i beat you 1v1” after they lost the game 500/200 (and this was even before this lopsided MM system we have in season 2)

uraldum.8513:

People playing what’s strong instead of what they enjoy is a big reason sPvP isn’t all that fun.

Nailed it.

Thing is, you can’t blame individual players for playing strong builds because IF Arenanet actually did their job and balanced the kitten out of this game, this kitten wouldn’t happen.

Thiefs are perfectly viable if played properly, 2 thieves however on your team is usually a problem and the reason thieves should have secondary professions they can roll to.

Mesmers not viable? Mesmers are perfectly viable and beat alot of professions in the 1v1 while bringing good utility and decent damage in team fights. Honestly I feel like I have most influence on matches while playing a mesmer.

Warriors/DH’s are in my opinion not viable, altough DH’s can work at lower levels of play I guess.

Seyiwaji.4082:

@Opening

I don’t know what you are talking about, i am in Diamond T5 and i play Power mesmer.
I don’t have any issue.

Dom/Dueling/chrono ? I haven’t found a lower Mesmer build I like for this meta :-/

To the people who are showing me screenshots of your victories, kudos. I wish you many more such victories as you climb your way thru the tiers. However in this current meta it is my opinion that you few, you happy few, you band of non viable meta brothers are the exception not the rule.

Edit: Oh and one more thing to take from what Chaba is saying. If you looking the team comp, please switch? If they have a thief I usually don’t care if a thief is on my team. But if the enemy team has alot of DH/Rev, and we have a thief (or 2 -_-) swallow your pride, and switch.

@Chaba And that is a good piont. Nice to say I can 1v1 this or that class, but seriously that is moot. A thief gets blasted by the team if a thief so much as peeks out of stealth, as they should be. Because they can’t take a hit, and their only real defensive method is to escape leaving the battle lopsided. Or to down before he can, distracting the team into trying to revive him, or using his downed state as a revive bot to quick rez any of your own teammates who are downed.

Loboling.5293:

I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

so you must be the guy that made me go to bed yesterday….

and i though i was getting bad at reaper.

So far i’ve only seen 3 good thieves, but those 3 totally destroyed me in humilliating ways.

What i’ve read about the thief, is not that it’s in such a bad position, but that the revenant can fill the same role with less risk.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Loboling.5293:

I feel bad for reapers when I fight them 1v1.

so you must be the guy that made me go to bed yesterday….

and i though i was getting bad at reaper.

So far i’ve only seen 3 good thieves, but those 3 totally destroyed me in humilliating ways.

What i’ve read about the thief, is not that it’s in such a bad position, but that the revenant can fill the same role with less risk.

I have to agree with this, even though I love Thief.

As a Revenant, you can still chase people with Shiro, deal tons of damage, and your heals are crazy. Not to mention your Rez power with Infused Light.

“My win rate on Thief this season seems to be about 70-80%. But I’ve only had time for about 30 games total and got to sapphire.”

At this level thief is viable. However, I hate to break the news to you but,…The higher tiers of sapphire will challenge you as a thief player. Once you enter ruby thief will not shine for you as much as it did in the first 3 divisions. If you enter Diamond then solo’ing becomes more and more difficult to progress at a steady pace and a organised team is now needed to maintain competitiveness and progress. Most organised teams aren’t looking for, or want a thief because they are too made of crepe paper in group engagements and they offer little in group dynamics. It is the same issue with warrior. They are not bad perse’…but as matches become deeply more competitive and organised they don’t offer any group dynamic. This is where thieve’s win out in starting/mid divisons,…they have much higher mobility and better tactics for 1 vs 1 decapping, however the need to do that quickly disappears once you get to the final tiers of sapphire. In short,..once team organisation becomes needed to progress then thief becomes redundant.

Seyiwaji.4082:

@Opening

I don’t know what you are talking about, i am in Diamond T5 and i play Power mesmer.
I don’t have any issue.

There is no substitute for skill… Or lack thereof. Skill really does matter in this game.

Archon.6480:

Seyiwaji.4082:

@Opening

I don’t know what you are talking about, i am in Diamond T5 and i play Power mesmer.
I don’t have any issue.

Skill really does matter in this game.

Hum? Are we playing the same game?

#reaperadise

Condi mesm is actually quite strong, and so thief, dunno why OP is complaining about them

Jokes on you. Ive been the most successful with Merc mesmer so far.

DutchRiders.2871:

Thiefs are perfectly viable if played properly, 2 thieves however on your team is usually a problem and the reason thieves should have secondary professions they can roll to.

Mesmers not viable? Mesmers are perfectly viable and beat alot of professions in the 1v1 while bringing good utility and decent damage in team fights. Honestly I feel like I have most influence on matches while playing a mesmer.

Warriors/DH’s are in my opinion not viable, altough DH’s can work at lower levels of play I guess.

This. One good thief can make the match. More is dangerous.
Also one mesmer can do great things.
Warrior is limited. DH is acutally quite strong. Even two on a team can be a win.
the problem is that DH can be countered quite hard. So it´s a high risk when playing against good players. A DH should be able to RR too if he sees an ele + engi.
Had such a match. Did see 2 DH and 2 Druids on enemy team .. Smiled and swaped my cantrip for shock/aftershock …. Poor (or stupid?) enemy team …

Crimson Shi.5047:

… they don’t work.

Is a whole lot different than,

Crimson Shi.5047:

You have to work twice as hard to make them work.

I’ve been on teams that utilizes a Mesmer comp and their Portal play Zerg strategy, or just backcaping and winning side nodes in general, can work. Granted it takes a lot more strategy and effort compared to any other comp but Mes can still be viable.

In any other soloQ environment however, I agree with you. They’re hard to make work and is often a 50/50 chance whether or not they will.

Thief and Mesmers are viable, but not optimal.
Warrior is neither atm.

I’ll continue playing Thief most matches.
Unless facing 2 Revs/2 Scrappers x)