Guild Wars 2

(What a veteran pvp player sees when he reads these updates)
Profession Balance Goals for the Winter 2016 Update

In an effort to make Pro Leagues moderately more interesting we at Arenanet have decided bunker Mesmer, Druid, and Rev will all have their crazily overpowered revive and stomp capability screwed over by making it so Slow and Quickness do not effect reviving an ally or stomping an enemy. We also did this because slow makes the animations look incredibly broken, so reducing what it can effect is great!

Elementalist

Next on the chopping block is the revered Elementalist. This class has been pulling more healing/group boon generation/condi clear than anything that has preceded it in the entire history of this game (using only celestial amulet mine you). Just because we at Arenent think slow cancerous gameplay is funny, we understand there might be one or two people against it, We are taking Diamond skin, one of the most controversial skills and axing it like it should have been, bye eles, you’ve had a good run.

Engineer

Some gibberish about gyros and pve. Scrapper, having double S, massive condi reduction, tons of blocks, moving shadow field, ridiculous amounts of armor, might have been a little much on the tanky side. Since this is the case, we think axing it down like the eles is the best way to go, expect some minor changes that, in the end, will be meaningless and you will be just about as tanky as always.

Guardian

Say what? You walked into a bunch of traps and died again? Ya, Arenanet devs kept having that issue too, since crazy rupts, stupid high damage true shots, enormous damage from traps, is a bit too much for any noob that walks into them we’re going to nerf them into the ground. Also, there is no chance DH or Bunker guard will be viable in the next season because of the crazy low healthpool that will make the builds succumb to an agonizing death in what is definitely going to be a condi meta.

Mesmer

If you would rather be a God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals than actually get the title God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals then I would recommend playing bunker mesmer until we try and nerf it. Currently, it is the only way to solo queue your way to legendary and make terrible teams look decent in pro leagues. We even tried following YOUR suggestions by making well of precog an invuln, etc. but nothing seems to work. In fact, since this next meta won’t have tempests around to heal, druid and bunker guards can’t stand on point, we KNOW this will still be a thing, but we think it would be better if it took a more passive role, in fact, instead of reviving and stomping, we think it would be best if you just focused on survival. So, we will shave the defensive capabilities a bit, and Alacrity will get a very minor nerf (it’s a big thing in PVE remember?) it also won’t be a revive god anymore (because of the general nerf to quickness) but will still be the only thing available to tank point unless we actually buff Guard health (which we won’t).

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Ranger

We’ll be looking into all of those ranger’s traits that no self-respecting Ranger would touch with a barge pole and will fiddle with them in an attempt to make them slightly less pointless. In the first quarterly update, we’ll messing round with shouts but completely ignoring all of the crucial things that Rangers have been shouting out for for like Sword AA and short bow reworks. In the future, we’ll continue to scratch our heads regarding ways to make any pet that’s not Smokescale or Bristleback semi-viable. And those Druid hippies? They’re getting hit over the head with the nerf staff. – BROKENCAPS.4561

Revenant

Now that everyone has bought HOT to play the overpowered as kitten classes like Revenent we’ve decided to finally start nerfing it. The general goal of this class is to rip off as many skills and utilities from other classes as we can, we decided not to take the creative approach, but instead, to take the quick and easy approach of just mashing everything we had together into something that we had to make overpowered in order to sell this game. Since people have been getting a little upset at the power of sword 1 spam, we’re nerfing it, since the Defensive capability is actually insane, we will nerf it a little. We as Arenanet will neglect to mention the changes everyone asked for though, like nerf to UA, fixing the fact standard character models don’t apply, etc. (Oh and we’re also not going to touch on the fact that the slow/quickness nerf will destroy Rev’s downstate)

Thief

Guys, we get it. You’ve got no sustain. You’re at a disadvantage nearly every fight because while everyone else is healing/blocking/immune/dropping conditions, you’re just twiddling your thumbs. Half of your traitlines are worthless (including BOTH your defensive lines), and you’ve had a shortbow cemented into your second weaponset slot since the games inception; But there’s good news. We’re upping your melee AA damage! Isn’t that great? Oh, also, we’re going to finally put out the Dumpster fire we turned Acrobatics into half a year ago. Kind of. Maybe. You trust us, right? -evilapprentice.6379

Warrior

We’ve taken a look at the warrior’s abilities and decided to experiment, adjust a few things (nothing big and fancy like a rework to make the berserker class cool and viable, just a few number changes). We’re going to rework rifle because we at Areneant KNOW that every Warrior wishes they had a better reason to use rifle (LOL) and since we failed to come up with a way to make warriors kill revs/bunker mesmers we decided to shy away from making damage oriented changes and instead make changes to add tankyness and sustain, exactly what this game needs after the shenanigans going on in the current Pro-League games. All in all, warrior will still be kittened though, and they can cry all they want but we at Arenanet don’t give 2 kittens about these particular players.

In the end, whoever was planning on buying HOT at this point most likely has been forced into it already by the insanely OP elite specs/Revenent and Arenanet has grudgingly decided to do a few small nerfs here and there that will hopefully stop Pro-Leagues from being such an utter failure to watch or even be a part of. I have an idea, maybe make a Public Test Server and get some feedback on these upcoming changes, so we don’t have to blame the future terrible meta on just Arenanet .

Ranger

We’ll be looking into all of those ranger’s traits that you no self respecting Ranger would touch with a barge pole and will fiddle with them in an attempt to make them slightly less pointless. In the first quarterly update, we’ll be messing around with shouts but completely ignoring all of the crucial things that Rangers have been shouting out for like Sword AA and short bow reworks. In the future, we’ll continue to scratch our heads regarding ways to make any pet that’s not Smokescale or Bristleback semi-viable. And those Druid hippies? They’re getting hit over the head with the nerf staff.

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

Very well thought out and witty, it has been added BROKENCAPS.

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

Thief: we don’t play thief and we don’t know how to balance them so we just throw some buffs at AA and acro that we nerfed to the ground so we could sell daredevil trait. We will make sure that engis remain being better thieves than thieves though.

Cynz.9437:

Thief: we don’t play thief and we don’t know how to balance them so we just throw some buffs at AA and acro that we nerfed to the ground so we could sell daredevil trait. We will make sure that engis will be better thieves than thieves though.

Not bad, but could be a bit longer and more specific, if nothing else appears I’ll use yours.

Firebird.8324:

(What a veteran pvp player sees when he reads these updates)

Revenant

(Oh and we’re also not going to touch on the fact that the slow/quickness nerf will destroy Rev’s downstate)

Revenants shouldn’t be able to control stomps with their downstate AA in my opinion. If anything, I’d say Mesmer and Ele downstates need nerfs (the only two classes that can mitigate stomps 100% of the time)

Edit: actually Ele > Mesmer since reveal from HoT allows for more counterplay

Thief
Guys, we get it. You’ve got no sustain. You’re at a disadvantage nearly every fight because while everyone else is healing/blocking/immune/dropping conditions, you’re just twiddling your thumbs. Half of your traitlines are worthless (including BOTH your defensive lines), and you’ve had a shortbow cemented into your second weaponset slot since the games inception; But there’s good news. We’re upping your melee AA damage! Isn’t that great? Oh, also, we’re going to finally put out the Dumpster fire we turned Acrobatics into half a year ago. Kind of. Maybe. You trust us, right?

Revenant

Now that everyone has bought HOT to play the overpowered as kitten classes like Revenent we’ve decided to finally start nerfing it. The general goal of this class is to rip off as many skills and utilities from other classes as we can, we decided not to take the creative approach, but instead, to take the quick and easy approach of just mashing everything we had together into something that we had to make overpowered in order to sell this game. Since people have been getting a little upset at the power of sword 1 spam, we’re nerfing it, since the Defensive capability is actually insane, we will nerf it a little. We as Arenanet will neglect to mention the changes everyone asked for though, like nerf to UA, fixing the fact standard character models don’t apply, etc. (Oh and we’re also not going to touch on the fact that the slow/quickness nerf will destroy Rev’s downstate)

Yeah lets not buff the ventari or jalis that no one uses, and yeah lets keep hammer 2 doing 23k (i hit this….procced twice ovc) and lets not fix glint underwater either

evilapprentice.6379:

Thief
Guys, we get it. You’ve got no sustain. You’re at a disadvantage nearly every fight because while everyone else is healing/blocking/immune/dropping conditions, you’re just twiddling your thumbs. Half of your traitlines are worthless (including BOTH your defensive lines), and you’ve had a shortbow cemented into your second weaponset slot since the games inception; But there’s good news. We’re upping your melee AA damage! Isn’t that great? Oh, also, we’re going to finally put out the Dumpster fire we turned Acrobatics into half a year ago. Kind of. Maybe. You trust us, right?

I like it, I’ll add this one.

Thief

Since everyone has already bought the expansion pack by now, we’ve opted to bring back the acrobatics trait line by reworking
It to something that is no longer a weaker version of daredevil.
While you’ve voiced your concerns about all the aoe ccs and damage preventing you from landing any damage in the first place,
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Firebird.8324:

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

Old necro countered old engi. Reaper does not counter scrapper.

OP, weren’t you supposed to leave the game or sth?

Rym.1469:

OP, weren’t you supposed to leave the game or sth?

Got’em boiz.

Ok but seriously, we don’t even know what’s really going to be in the balance patch, so I think it’s a bit early to start making assumptions on arenanet’s attitudes towards certain professions. Also consider that balance needs to consider other gamemodes, as it already has been well established that splitting skills between gamemodes is not an option.

Browrain.7346:

Firebird.8324:

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

Old necro countered old engi. Reaper does not counter scrapper.

Reaper does counter it, in 1v1s and teamfights. I would know, as I play reaper and talk to many scrappers.

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Firebird.8324:

Browrain.7346:

Firebird.8324:

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

Old necro countered old engi. Reaper does not counter scrapper.

Reaper does counter it, in 1v1s and teamfights. I would know, as I play reaper and talk to many scrappers.

It really doesn’t. I play reaper as well, and I can safely tell you it doesn’t counter scrapper.

What do you think Reapers have that hard counter Scrappers?

lol nobody counters scrapper right now, not even necros

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Arrgh… Ok, maybe low condi pressure cele/carrion necro builds cannot take them, I’ve been running wanders amulet, spite/soul reaping with Dhummfire and corrupt boon/spite sig with vamp sig and plague sig. It eats scrappers and druids and revenents and bunker mesmers, but still gets rekt by teef and tempest.

Duel me with your scrapper if you do not believe me

Cynz.9437:

lol nobody counters scrapper right now, not even necros

Terrible necros die, good ones farm scrappers :[

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

Firebird.8324:

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

If necros countered scrappers, revenants, druids, and bunker mesmers they would have a guaranteed slot on every proleague team. But they don’t.

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

putting words in my mouth for the sake of argument is pathetic

i never said rev has everything for free, i play rev myself

trust me thief just get killed as fast if they get focused (if not faster due to lack of survival)

you shouldn’t be getting away from mobile class anyway

as thief, if other thief is chasing me i probably won’t get away either so that argument is kind of moot

now if i was trying to get away from something eless mobile (see necro, engi, guard) rev is as good at it just like a thief really…

Guardian

Were you guys complaining about your scepter AA being the equivalent of a potato launcher? Having issues sticking to faster opponents? No problem, have everything you need for 50$.

No, hold on, we made everything a tad bit too powerful in the DPS/CC department and people have been complaining, so we’ll probably just tweak numbers and leave overall functionality alone, ignoring the fact that traps have partially bugged visuals which is basically a deal breaker when you consider the fact that dragons maw is a stability stripper. Also, we won’t be changing the fact that you can instantly crap out traps from 1200 range with JI because its totally fair for you to have people fall into traps that weren’t initially there because who needs traps to actually behave as traps? Nobody had time for that mess.

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

If necros countered scrappers, revenants, druids, and bunker mesmers they would have a guaranteed slot on every proleague team. But they don’t.

Pro league strat is much different, it is about holding points and rotating to outnumbered fights and relying on revives. Necromancer does not support these characteristics, it can hardly revive allies, cannot withstand heavy cleave, cannot 1vx for very long and cannot gain health from the healing druids/scrappers/tempests give out. In essence, it is not a team player, which does not make it viable in Pro League play.

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

I suggest you go re-read what I said, then go read the Revenant traits.

“Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot”

Mallyx and Stab-on-dodge have nothing to do with each other. So please, follow my advice

Dead on.

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

I suggest you go re-read what I said, then go read the Revenant traits.

“Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot”

Mallyx and Stab-on-dodge have nothing to do with each other. So please, follow my advice

mallyx is for resistance /facepalm

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

I suggest you go re-read what I said, then go read the Revenant traits.

“Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot”

Mallyx and Stab-on-dodge have nothing to do with each other. So please, follow my advice

mallyx is for resistance /facepalm

At the risk of continuing this pointless argument, I’m just gonna say this: You didn’t say Mallyx was for Resistance, but rather tried to point out that because of Mallyx, you could have Stab-on-dodge.

Has anyone who’s selling point for thief is “they have more mobility” actually timed how long it takes for certain classes to get from a to c? At most you’ll beat other classes there by 4 seconds, this is the amazing role we have, getting to far by 4 seconds. Disregard the fact the person you raced there has skills they can use while you burned all your initiative and dodges to get there. Assuming there isn’t a bunker holding out you get to cap a point for 4 seconds before a bunker pushes you off of it with aoe ccs.

It’s better to be slower by a few seconds and be useful everywhere than to be limited to certain areas of the map and pray the team doesn’t have half a brain to predict what you are doing in your ONE predictable role xD some people are too much

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

I suggest you go re-read what I said, then go read the Revenant traits.

“Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot”

Mallyx and Stab-on-dodge have nothing to do with each other. So please, follow my advice

mallyx is for resistance /facepalm

At the risk of continuing this pointless argument, I’m just gonna say this: You didn’t say Mallyx was for Resistance, but rather tried to point out that because of Mallyx, you could have Stab-on-dodge.

you complained about condi cleanse and stun breaks

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Cynz.9437:

Malchior.5732:

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

Thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skill/utility/elite use and aren’t forced packages.
They’re also much worse for escaping and survivability in-general (you can equip as many stun breakers as you want or cleanses while Rev cannot).

Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot.

Sure thief utilities don’t prevent weapon skills but thieves also don’t have double utility bar and instant refill of ini~

Also did you just say that revs have worse survival than thieves? Are you serious? I can stay in team fights and 1v1 on rev, i can’t do it on thief.

I suggest you go re-read what I said, then go read the Revenant traits.

“Play mallyx duhh, stab on dodge helps a lot”

Mallyx and Stab-on-dodge have nothing to do with each other. So please, follow my advice

mallyx is for resistance /facepalm

At the risk of continuing this pointless argument, I’m just gonna say this: You didn’t say Mallyx was for Resistance, but rather tried to point out that because of Mallyx, you could have Stab-on-dodge.

you complained about condi cleanse and stun breaks

Complain

to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault:

I wasn’t complaining, but rather pointing out why Revenant utilities need to be a bit stronger than normal ones.

As a Necro player- Think you’re 100% right about necro being the next OP

Browrain.7346:

Firebird.8324:

Browrain.7346:

Firebird.8324:

Crinn.7864:

Firebird.8324:

Necromancer

We like where necromancer has been this season and have decided to try (but probably fail) to make lifestealing a thing by upping the lifesteal to just about every trait that has it and make it so lifesteal bolts work in Reaper Shroud (my be a good thing with spin to win on top of wells? Who knows). In essence, this will most likely be the next INCREDIBLY OP class because Tempest will no longer be a hard counter class to keep it in check, conditions will be ubiquitous and this class will only get better at giving them.

Spinning on wells requires using RS #4 immediately on shroud in a well, moreover comboing a well means we are not comboing RS #5’s ice field which means that any necro trying to take advantage of leeching bolts will be significantly reducing their chill application in shroud.

Also the jury is out on tempest, as everything rests on the details of new diamond skin, which we don’t have yet. I highly doubt reaper is going to dominate the meta though, it has other counters.

As it stands, necromancer counters Scrapper Rev (to a good extent) Druid, bunker Mesmer, but not tempest or teef, nerfing Tempest immunity might be the thing that pushes this back into a meta like the dhumfire meta from a few years ago, I’m not against it though, as I do main necromancer .

Old necro countered old engi. Reaper does not counter scrapper.

Reaper does counter it, in 1v1s and teamfights. I would know, as I play reaper and talk to many scrappers.

It really doesn’t. I play reaper as well, and I can safely tell you it doesn’t counter scrapper.

What do you think Reapers have that hard counter Scrappers?

Yea while Reaper is not bad by any means vs scrappers, they don’t definitely counter scrappers like necro did engi. Engi used to be heavily condi focused which necro’s did great verses, but now most scrappers run marauders, which is harder to deal with as a necro than rabid/cele engis with our low armor compared to vitality. We countered them with high HP pool + condi cleanses which are less relevant vs meta scrapper

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

No one implied that, you just need to learn to play rofl.

Between timing dodges (which give STABILITY), sig of energy and Riposting Shadows, you should have absolutely no problem getting the hell away from a fight. If you’re lucky, there’s another fight the next node over and you can even Phase Traversal away. In WvW is where it gets problematic escaping, but off topic.

- old s/d thief switched to Rev for ranked

Oishi.4358:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

you can use all 3 shiro utility spells to get away if you use it properly

yeah you may not be able to teleport on top of clocktower roof but on other hand you have UA with endless following range

besides thieves don’t get away for free, it either costs ini or CDs and are not always available~

Oh yeah..i completely forgot that riposting shadows cost next to 0 energy and that we swap to new legend with 100% energy. Keep acting like revs has everything for free and always available. Not. And riposting shadows wont let me get away from mobile class btw. the only way i can escape from fight is when i am not focused.

I believe his point was more so that the impacting cost of revenant utilities/skills are far less than the cost of thief utilities/skills.

1. Riposting Shadows = essentially soft CC immunity while in shiro and has way less of a CD than anything on thief with those effects. AND returns 50 endurance. New acro thief LOL

2. Anything gets focused, a thief has a life span of about .5 seconds when focused if you wanna trade.

3. At least revs swap with the baseline amount of energy available. I’d say thats pretty free compared to what thieves get with intiative.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

No one implied that, you just need to learn to play rofl.

Between timing dodges (which give STABILITY), sig of energy and Riposting Shadows, you should have absolutely no problem getting the hell away from a fight. If you’re lucky, there’s another fight the next node over and you can even Phase Traversal away. In WvW is where it gets problematic escaping, but off topic.

- old s/d thief switched to Rev for ranked

Revenants get stability for dodging? lmao and they thought the thief dodge traits were too strong then release this monstrosity

Cam Ron.4170:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

No one implied that, you just need to learn to play rofl.

Between timing dodges (which give STABILITY), sig of energy and Riposting Shadows, you should have absolutely no problem getting the hell away from a fight. If you’re lucky, there’s another fight the next node over and you can even Phase Traversal away. In WvW is where it gets problematic escaping, but off topic.

- old s/d thief switched to Rev for ranked

Revenants get stability for dodging? lmao and they thought the thief dodge traits were too strong then release this monstrosity

There needs to be some counterplay against the mindless CC AoE spam going on.

“Despite the fact the thief has no active cooldown system and can maintain very high damage outputs because of it without really needing auto-attacks as filler between cooldowns, and that the thief already has some of the best AA DPS in the game, we’re going to buff the AA damage because the thief is in a bad spot right now in PvE and raids when in particularly long encounters. It’s been made very obvious that the thief has no support, sustain, or intrinsically overpowered abilities or synergies which currently define how sPvP is played via the bunker meta, but we are too lazy to look into actually re-working or investigating any problematic design decisions and are instead just tweaking numbers we got from our QA players who only play PvE, hoping things improve.”

Cam Ron.4170:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Burtnik.5218:

Cynz.9437:

Kicast.1459:

solus animus.8549:

Thief
we decided that throwing auto attack damage in the mix will solve this. Our vision is your role shouldn’t be able to contribute to anything other than finishing half dead enemies or +1 fights

Unfortunatelu this is how it should be…otherwise you have to nerf their mobility.

revs, druids, mesmers, eles say hi

Rev cannot use his mobility to escape away from the fight at will.

wat? since when?

Since always unless you trying to imply that phase traversal is ground targeted in which case /facepalm.

No one implied that, you just need to learn to play rofl.

Between timing dodges (which give STABILITY), sig of energy and Riposting Shadows, you should have absolutely no problem getting the hell away from a fight. If you’re lucky, there’s another fight the next node over and you can even Phase Traversal away. In WvW is where it gets problematic escaping, but off topic.

- old s/d thief switched to Rev for ranked

Revenants get stability for dodging? lmao and they thought the thief dodge traits were too strong then release this monstrosity

While I don’t like it, Revenant also has 0 access to Vigor and the only way to increase Endurance is the use of a 30 energy utility. This trait is also the only viable source of Stability on the entire class.

DeceiverX.8361:

“Despite the fact the thief has no active cooldown system and can maintain very high damage outputs because of it without really needing auto-attacks as filler between cooldowns, and that the thief already has some of the best AA DPS in the game, we’re going to buff the AA damage because the thief is in a bad spot right now in PvE and raids when in particularly long encounters. It’s been made very obvious that the thief has no support, sustain, or intrinsically overpowered abilities or synergies which currently define how sPvP is played via the bunker meta, but we are too lazy to look into actually re-working or investigating any problematic design decisions and are instead just tweaking numbers we got from our QA players who only play PvE bearbow, hoping things improve.”

fixd